What Gene Haas 'doesn't understand' about his team's place in F1
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Should Gene Haas sell his F1 team to Michael Andretti? When we asked our CZcams audience that question after Haas decided to split with team boss Guenther Steiner, the answer was a resounding YES.
Glenn Freeman and Scott Mitchell-Malm get together to discuss those results, and look into why Haas appears reluctant to sell but also reluctant to invest to make his Ferrari-linked team more competitive in F1 during 2024 and beyond.
00:00 Sell to Andretti?
01:12 Making money from F1?
03:03 Does Haas spend enough?
06:00 Why Haas thinks more is possible
08:40 Why sale talk won't go away
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#f1 #f12024 #haas #haasf1 #formula1 #guenthersteiner #steiner #f1news #andretti #andrettif1 #michaelandretti #formulaone #grandprix #therace - Sport
As an American, I’d really like to see what a team backed by a classic American brand like Cadillac/GM could do, rather than only having a customer team with a shoestring budget to root for. It would also be a great pipeline to finally get some quality drivers from US based series’ into F1.
If the only way to achieve that is to have Haas sell, Gene should sell. He really does not seem like he wants to invest in the sport.
Absolutely
Doesn't need to invest, just keep it running and sell when it's value as a couple of grid spots is at it's highest. He has already probably quadrupled his initial investment. Think of NFL ownership in regards to F1 these days. He isn't selling until he thinks the value is at it's peak.
@@gpaje I think you’re right, unfortunately. Unless Gene can squeeze a premium valuation out of Michael, I don’t think he sells yet either.
Isn’t has an American brand 😂
@@AndrewDRSWilliamson Cadillac/GM?
Part of the issue that Gene faces (or ignores), is that this isn't his first 'major' team. He owns a NASCAR team and has for almost 20 years. His team was a back-marker, trying to leech off prize money to make his team better. It took an 'investment' in giving part of the team to Tony Stewart. Just a short time later, he wins the championship. It required racing talent and management talent (Stewart) to make the team relevant and contending for wins. Stewart got a lot of money invested. Now his team is work 50x. I bet Gene hopes for lightening to strike twice. That could mean Andretti.
In short- Gene doesn't know nearly as much as he should.
Stewart-Haas is in the doldrums at the moment. Their most experienced driver (out of four) is just starting his fifth full-time season, two out of four are basically rookies. The cars suck. Something's going on on the NASCAR side as well
“Gene doesn’t know nearly as much as he should” or as much as he thinks he already does know.
He and his team are dead wood in the F1 Paddock
@@camillaquelladegliaggettiv4303 heard that Tony Stewart was also miffed at Gene for not spending as much as it should have been.
@@camillaquelladegliaggettiv4303to be fair the same was said about Hendrick Motorsports not too long ago after Johnson, Gordon and Earnhardt retired. So the nascar team is gonna have a year or 2 down period but I think they’ll be back.
Another data point .
I've dealt with the machine tool side of Haas and can attest, that Gene rules the company with an iron fist where workers at the factory in Oxnard CA as well as dealers are fearful of going against anything that Gene says. My dealings with Haas were in the 2008 - 2018 time frame.
Want to order repair parts ? Sure no problem, except ALL parts had a 100% core charge if you didn't ship the part back to Oxnard at MY expense. Want to order a spare drive belt? 100% core charge if you didn't send back worn out one. Want to upgrade a machine to a network card? Same deal, send the old one back except there isn't one to send back since it is an upgrade. Bent up way covers? Same deal.
Also note that Gene was convicted of tax evasion in the early days when he launched the company. With all of that said, the machines filled a void in the mid range machine tool market at a decent price.
What Gene Haas is doing with his F1 team reminds me a lot of what US owners of football clubs in the Premier League were doing - they bought the team, didn't invest a whole lot and let the money print itself by profiting from the huge revenue streams of the clubs such as ManUtd and Arsenal.
Spot on observation!
I hope not, so that Andretti can join as an extra team and increase the number of teams to 11. Consequently, increase the number of seats to 22 instead of 20.
Andretti aren't guaranteed that 11th spot that doesn't even exist at the moment, there's a decently high chance the 11th spot doesn't get created either due to how it'll effect the other teams and them all having a say in who gets added, this is why them buying Haas is a much better option given the nature of it all. I'd prefer 11/12 teams but its not something that's looking too likely to happen
@@Custom2udoI would say denying that 11th seat will crash F1’s appeal and value. That’s not even taking into account the PR damage it’ll do. F1 most likely will let Andretti in as an 11th team but they’re dragging their feet a lot atm, probably hoping someone like Haas will sell. They want Andretti but not the 11th spot.
@@snowtrooper8817denying Andretti won't have any negative effect on F1 at all
@@ianaddiction3808 They are also indirectly denying GM
@@snowtrooper8817remember the teams have to also vote for that 11th team and the fact that shorts prize money the teams will be voting against the new team
Gene understands his team's place in F1, and he doesn't care. It's a growth investment for him. Gene has already said no to Andretti several times, and that's when the team already went up in value. He is either waiting a bit longer to squeeze a few more hundred million or getting ready to sell in the next year or so.
"Gene understands his team's place in F1"
No he doesn't. Not when he's making public statements about how he doesn't understand why they're not winning.
@@rars0n That's just PR to explain getting rid of your leader and hiring someone for less money. He is putting the team on cruise control until he sells it.
@@gpaje I mean, I don't disagree with that. It seems like the most obvious explanation, anyway. The one thing he's definitely not doing is putting the team in a position to actually win anything.
@@rars0n Agreed, and I for one can't stand that myself. But, that's what he is doing.
Corporately he may like the write off?
I wonder if Eddie Jordan ever wonders what his team would look like today if he had managed to keep at it somehow until a cost cap was properly implemented?
you can see it. Its called Aston Martin lol
thank you, very productive there.@@Exofficina
@@Exofficina No, because Jordan wouldn't have given up his team but also it remains the question if he would've grown the team.
@djoetma err, yes because that's what it became after Midland, then Spyker, then Force India/Racing Point, before becoming Aston Martin. Same factory grounds across from Silverstone. And of course he would have grown the team
He did it in 1991 after going from F3 into F1, and continued to grow it into the early 2000s until jt became literally impossible to keep competing against car manufacturers spending 100s of millions, which is why wheb he couldn't get the funding he decided to sell amd get out. If you watch DC and EJs F1 for Success channel for their podcasts, you would understand EJ isn't just an outspoken former team owner, he gives a lot of insight to himself and his character in those discussions of BTS within F1 where I have no doubt, and you shouldn't have doubt either IMO, that if course he would have grown the team. He certainly did do more than Gene Haas is doing for his own team. Genes lack on direct involvement pales in comparison for a team owner like Eddie. All this comment shows, no offence, is a bit of ignorance on your part regarding EJ and his old F1 team and that part of the history, to be honest. Eddie only sold because you couldn't operate on a budget of less than the cost cap now in F1 due tk the insane amounts of money spent on in season testing and development, so there's not just a question of the financial side that affected Jordan, but also the entire ruleset that were homolagated at the time !!! It was a very different world of F1 pre 2005/6 which I feel you're forgetting with regards to your reply and opinion here.
@@djoetma thank you
There are two types of people in F1 :
1. Sport / Competitors
2. Business / Entrepreneurs
People like Guenter are in it for the competitive nature of the sport, Gene is utilizing the tax implications of owning the team.
It’s unfortunate but it seems to be the reality. However, Andretti may be the combination of both that would make f1 and the fans the overall winner 🏆
Guenther Steiner was an anchor around the Haas F1 teams neck, he had several years to improve the team and he failed in the worst ways possible from his horrible team management to his horrible race day decisions and his treatment of drivers was bad as well.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869 Well he had a shoestring budget and in Grosjean & Magnussen two average at best drivers.
Steiner failed at Red Bull, he failed even worse at Red Bull's NASCAR startup, and he's failed to accomplish anything at Haas. If it weren't for Netflix, he probably would have been fired several seasons ago. I suspect Gene Haas understood that Steiner's notoriety helped bring in sponsorship money. I was not remotely surprised that Steiner was fired. My only surprise was that he lasted so long. He was a disaster as a Team Principal.
The myth that Haas was underfunded is absurd. For 2023, they were fully funded even before the season started. They have access to the best wind tunnel in F1, they build their cars with current Ferrari tech. They don't have a funding problem, they have problems deciding how to get the most from that budget. They're wasting millions on their underutilized HQ in North Carolina.
What Gene has, is the equivalent of having gold-rich land, but he isn't able to mine it effectively.
Doesn't need to, he is sitting on that land until he is paid. He bought that land when it was cheap, now waiting for a really big developer to pay a price he won't say no to.
True. Regardless it needs to be mined at some point, and he ain't the man for it...
@@charliepalmer3244 Agreed, I rather have someone trying than just holding station for a pay day. But who knows, maybe he could be heading towards that direction.
... and those he paid to try and mine it don't know what they're doing.
@coletrickIe @coletrickIe that's all he needs, that grid lot is very valuable especially with the teams not wanting to add any more new teams.
No. Andretti has made a bid to be an additional entry. He deserves to be . This side story on Haas is a thing, a seperate topic. But Andretti / GM plan is a separate story that needs to happen ( i’m French btw not American). That being said, the Haas staff are super professionals and deserve to continue to work and live their passion. And if the solution is through Andretti / GM so be it
I honestly could see Gene HAAS selling his stake in the struggling NASCAR team Stewart-HAAS Racing in a few years. To focus more on F1.
I will be very surprised if HAAS is around for more than 1-2 seasons. This adjustment might be good for the team, and 24', they could finish 7th or 8th and see some improvement. I wouldn't doubt that another buyer besides Andretti/Cadillac could snatch them up, too. I could see Andretti coming in as a new and separate 11th team on the grid.
"The most valuable asset has just walked out the door..." Well said, that man!
The thing is Hass has a quick car see quali results but, like the Ferrari it chews through its tyres quickly, have they also bought some of the Ferrari's problems with the Ferrari parts?
They didn’t have tire issues in the early part of 2022, I think that characteristic really came when they updated their aero concept to be more in line with what Ferrari was doing.
Haas is very dependant on Ferrari. You can predict how Haas is doing next year by seeing Ferrari now
Could be yes
Will Hass sell to a big rival and give them the chance to really show him up by succeeding where he failed? I can't see it, even if it makes sense.
Exactly. Pride almost has to take over. Same goes for Papa Stroll not canning his own son, and just better to sell the team to not get to that position to make.
It shouldn't be left up to Haas
Cost cap is a bit misleading since in my understanding there is the cost cap for the active running of the team but also investment in infrastructure (plant, ...) and the later is the one lacking in Steiners view. So even so they might be within 10% of the cost cap they could spend a lot more than that 10% in other departments.
I've missed the poll, but as soon as I've heard the news about it, and while watching your very first video, this is exactly what I was thinking! It makes total sense now, because taking into account the statements against the entrance of a 10th team and all the talks about the 10 current teams value, the exist of Gunther Steiner and the refuse of Haas to invest in the team, really does weakens F1's position against a very serious candidate. Also, given the talks about Audi's commitment, all of this really seem to change the wind in Andretti's favor...
Haas said he isn't selling and The Concorde Agreement does not specify any conditions or procedures for a team to sell or transfer its entry to another entity. The only requirement is that the team must notify the FIA and Formula 1 of any change of ownership or control, and obtain their consent.
Personally I’d like to see an 11th team but I’m sure we can all agree worst case scenario is we keep HAAS and pass Andretti, so if the only way is too sell haas then I would be ok with it
What am I missing? This whole question is ridiculous. The Concorde Agreement, which is the contract between Formula 1, the FIA and the teams, does not specify any conditions or procedures for a team to sell or transfer its entry to another entity. The only requirement is that the team must notify the FIA and Formula 1 of any change of ownership or control, and obtain their consent.
This is probably the best breakdown of the key concepts at play thats come out over the last week.
I would much rather have 11 team on the grid. Andretti buying Haas doesn't really make sense for them with how they have been building up their team already.
Haas doesn't add anything to F1. It's not really American, it's not really a constructor, it's not really a team which actually wants to win as it has done nothing which shows that ambition. Andretti's shown all of that. That's the problem of the franchising model F1 has gone down. Teams can still turn a profit year on year despite finishing last.
I like seeing Glenn Freemen on these. Reminds me of his couch interviews some years back. More Glenn, I need more of that comforting voice 😉
You guys are so good at stating the obvious and making content out of it, Truly a skill.
I completely agree with scott. Best take on the situation yet.
Honestly, one could look through the extreme defense against Andretti joining by Steiner as showing just how valuable Haas is to Gene. To me, this clearly shows he doesn’t want the money that the team earns to be lessened in anyway.
I think it's all because of James Vowels' success in Williams. He elevated the team by increasing efficiency and very direct communication. Steiner just didn't cut it anymore
The loss of Steiner is a serious loss, however I think if he wants to and believes he can win races without additional expenditures. Then this shift was his best chance to try something radical and new. It doesnt appear to be a case of he wants to sell, but I could be wrong
Bridgeport CNC milling machines are built in Indiana and Andretti's HQ is in Indianapolis.
Scott made an excellent point at the end, would be very interesting to look into the parallel universe where everything's the same except Drive To Survive doesn't exist.
Totally agree with this video. Unfortunately in F1 the things you want to happen rarely do....
Well I can't wait to hear what you guys have to tell Gene haas about his position in f1 and what he doesn't seem to understand.
Now I’m all excited about the possibilities within Haas! Much prefer them over Andretti and I particularly enjoyed the statement regarding humiliation when finishing last.
Now get to work! Consolidate and expand the facilities!
I kinda see it like this... Andretti would only be buying the entry... That's all they need from Hass... Thus potentially putting all at Banbury and Marinello out of a job... I'd rather see an 11th (and 12th) new team bring 4 more seats to F1 and Gene sell to Gunther... Or Rodin... Or Carlin.
In an era of the cost cap if you're not spending to the cost cap then you're under investing. Also the problem here is not spending the cost cap money it's spending money in facilities and more personnel.
The Haas model worked well to get them onto the grid and establish themselves. Now (because they didn't do it sooner) they need to mature from that position or sell, if they choose to mature its going to take expenditure along the lines of what all their rivals are doing. Holding onto the team and not investing, will just cement them at the bottom of the table.
6:45 100% this.
I'd love to see an actual American team compete in F1. We don't take kindly to finishing last. Not really our thing.
Don't forget they used Russian flag livery
What we have to take into consideration, when we are talking about Haas selling the team to Andretti is the infrastructure that Haas has. Because basically it’s non existent. If Andretti would come into F1 it would want to do it properly, it would build nearly everything in house and with Haas’s current infrastructure it’s simply isn’t possible. The only valuable thing that Haas has is a seat at the table. Any other thing that this team has doesn’t worth a thing.
maybe or potentially could be but 85% that's a lot but it makes sense 🤔
Agree with everything Scott had to say on this matter.
Why are the ten F1 teams getting paid too much prize money? The Concorde agreement states 12 teams can enter and the prize pot should be shared by that factor.
But no, the prize pot is divided among 10 teams. FIA and F1 should have only paid out the amount divided by 12 and kept the extra 2 parts in a fund. Then the teams wouldn’t have mined about an extra team because the prize pot would be bigger.
If the team wants to go forwards, it has to stop relying on Ferrari and Dallara. Ferrari will never allow another team to beat them, and building their own car will make testing and designing way easier.
HAAS has an aero facility of its own. They should be tops in that area.
I hope Gene Haas keeps his team, and turns it around under new leadership. Haas F1 was fully funded for 2023, they build their cars around current Ferrari tech, and have access to the best wind tunnel in the sport. Gene poured money out of his own pockets during the lean years, but now that F1 has become more popular than ever, he's finally getting the sponsorship support he needs to make the team successful. Money wasn't a problem in 2023, they suffered from a leadership problem.
Steiner was let go from Red Bull for his lack of engineering expertise, the TP needs to be fully engaged across all aspects of the sport, including the science.
100%
It'll be really interesting to see how the car performs this year, because some of the arguments put forward here speak volumes for the state of F1 - not just Haas. Assuming the arguments are correct, and Haas fail to develop their car as much as those with better infrastructures, then the team will naturally drift further from the rest of the pack. That is good for F1, as it would evidence the competitiveness of the sport, the effectiveness of the business model, the suitability of the regulations... the list goes on.
There is, however, always a chance in F1 that Haas could pull some amazing development out of the bag and the team end up competing for 6th or 7th in the championship. It sounds extremely unlikely to me, but I'm very interested.
I think it makes sense to sell 80% to andretti and let them take over and if they make it something he still has 20% for himself that he is going to be much happier with than a legacy of a backmarker team that he sold for way less than what it could have been.
In the NHL there’s a salary cap and also a salary floor - minimum player costs each year to ensure people don’t field a team that’s too bad.
Couldn’t F1 pretty easily do the same?
He absolutley shouldnt sell because its power as a franchise is so important. But if he fails to revive Haas youre right it could be forced out
I love how analytical and non-sensationalist this channel is (even when discussing a questionable poll). Thanks.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 yuu mean this Merc fanpage? 😂😂😂 non-sensational? Stop joking
the question (or counter question) is, WHY would Michael Andretti want to buy Haas? he has his own teams already running, his own staff and drivers. if MA bought out Hass, he would likely have to keep all the staff with the team, otherwise thats so many people unemployed. but then, he would have to likely turn away people he already had lined up.
and then there is the fact that the team (as it stands) is mostly finished with the 2024 car, so buying now would be a big no because if the car is junk, you are taking someone else's junk and having to put your name on it. so no, buying Haas really isnt a viable option, at least not for Andretti!
Something else Gene clearly does not understand is that Haas' operating model is inherently cost/performance inefficient. The rules make it intentionally so by setting the regulated price of the components they can buy from rivals higher than the cost of producing them in-house, to protect the interests of the smaller constructor teams like Williams. It was a cheap way to get into F1 (minimal capital investment), but it is by design a very inefficient way of operating an F1 team. And with the budget cap in place, they can't compensate by spending more overall so sacrifices have to be made elsewhere. (That's why Alpha Tauri has moved back to producing more in-house to make their budget go further.)
Even if Haas has the same budget to spend as everyone else and managed to be just as efficient at converting it to performance, they would still be at a disadvantage because of this.
It's as though Gene somehow believes that with the current setup he is getting a Ferrari customer car and can't see why it isn't as fast as the Ferraris.
I agree with everything Scott says and it pains to say it I’m a huge HAAAS fan this team has do much potential to achieve and aren’t.
I'd love to see Andretti come in with Cadillac, pick up Guenther and with a huge Investment show what Guenther is capable of doing and make a run at the top dogs. I think Guenther has the passion if given the funds and the ability to make decisions. His last few teams always seemed to keep him on a short lease and never let him just run with it and do what he thinks needs to be done.
Yes
Haas wont ever sell to Andretti,, they've been competitors in other motorsports series for 2 or 3 decades now, so of course that sale will never happen, its the most obviously missed reason IMO. Scott raises a good point in his question back to Glenn about why they arent higher up especially if spending as much as the other teams, and with their model, also getting as much from Ferrari as they can - because the same would surely apply to AlphaTauri being Red Bulls sister team and not getting results either (better results sure, but a semi similar boat) - so the money spend makes no sense, except for the input into beyond capex spending on things like facilities, wind tunnels, staff. etc which I feel is the angle here Gene isnt understanding, alongside Scotts point of a lack of the aerodynamic understanding within Haas
The Haas is an F1 kit car. Parts from Ferrari with a chassis from Dallara. So somilar to bying an off the shelf rasing chassis for clubmand rasing and slotting a Ford 1600 engine in there and go racing. Just at a much more expensive level.
Andretti buying HAAS would be wins kind of all around, for one the teams can no longer complain about splitting prize money with one extra team. Andretti would get into F1 which is the big win and well Gene gets a juicy chunk of cash for selling the team.
He already said no to him many times. He wants even more money and feels with F1s continued growth, he will get a bigger pay day in a few years.
Is cool to see Andretti but there is no point has seal tho. Have more teams should be a better answer, but we all know why is not happening…
There is a place for a team being at the back of the grid, in that the team can be used to allow drivers, engineers, etc. to cut their teeth in F1 before rising to a 'better' team.
Exactly!! And many do!!
yes
While I really, really want the 11th team in F1 more than anything else, if Gene is still dead set on being involved, why not a setup like the Sauber/Audi setup at the moment? Haas could still have a stake (not that kind) in the team with priority of the return of control if Andretti decided to call it a day after 5 years or so.
Andretti FE has a new sponsor in the Guggenheim group. If you know you know… this gives me hope that Andretti will make it into F1 soon
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes!!!
Better way of doing things
They shoukd be able yo move forward
From just reading the title, yes, no doubt
I would guess that good business sense is to wait for the F1 teams to decline Andretti, and then sell, but not before, because the value of his team will be considerably more, if Andretti get a place on the grid.
F1 teams don't have the authority to decline Andretti. This myth has been spread across various platforms like The Race but it simply isn't true.
As an American, They’ve never really felt like an American team to get behind. But I’d love to see Andretti as its own thing. Selling doesn’t seem to make sense since Andretti wouldn’t want to use Haas’s facilities and staff anyway.
Andretti would be buying a guaranteed spot on the grid. It's not about the facilities and staff.
@@LVQ-so5th true. Still would be a shame and bad look if they’re denied entry as an 11th but accepted as new owners.
Gene has is not leaving in this world. This as good as they can be.
You gotta respect what Steiner has done with the resources he got. I understand Gene's perspective as well but they are the minardi of current times and when you look at how close the field has gotten and with the (CAPEX) investments going into other teams, they need to invest or risk falling behind. Taking bits from Ferrari doesn't cut it when the field is this close. You need to be able to develop by themselves or during the season. Look at what McLaren and Aston Martin are doing. They're no carbon copy of Mercedes
HAAS may well be very close to the cost cap, but I have a feeling he is taking the cost cap in a very literal sense and only allowing the team to spend $120m or whatever.
However all the other teams, while complying with the cost cap of $130m will be spending well over that on the many items that aren't included.
I believe he does want the team to be more competitive, we all would if we owned a F1 team, but all he is looking at is the potential earnings.
Some have said that Andretti doesn’t have the funds to buy out an existing team. So regardless of whether Haas should or will sell, maybe Andretti isn’t the buyer here. But one day, Haas will be sold. Last year they reportedly ran 10M under the cap, and that’s after Gene put in 8M of his own money for an upgrade that didn’t work. Without that cash, they’re running 15% less budget than the majority of the field. That’s a LOT of R&D and at that level of investment, it’s hard to be competitive. They need a big cash infusion that is sustainable, or else a few years from now Gene will pull the plug. My w cents. YMMV 🙂
Well tbh non of us know how effective the advertising he gets from F1 is. This isn'f an alpine situation where they're expected to moneyball their way to the front of tbe grid, in a very well understood game
Yes!!!!!
I wonder what will be tha action I'll bring on Drive to survive Netflix😂
Current teams have no legal say in the matter of new teams entering F1, according to the Concorde Agreement or any other bylaws. They can only voice their concerns and try to persuade Formula 1 and the FIA to reconsider their decision . However, this does not mean that they have the right to block an entry that the FIA has approved, as long as the new team also secures a commercial agreement with Formula 1. The current teams may have their own reasons for opposing Andretti’s entry, such as financial or competitive interests, but they cannot legally prevent it from happening.
Gene’s entry he can run it whatever dam way he pleases. But a racer at heart races to win do they not? And how do you attract team talent if you run to settle for just participating?
Yup.
Formula 1 like all professional sports is an entertainment business. Like Guenther correctly and astutely pointed out several times in all his recent interviews, " it's Gene"s team and he can do whatever he wants." We/you can talk about sport all you want, but the moment sports/sanctioning bodies started selling broadcast and advertising rights, "sport" became a romantic/nostalgic part of the narrative.
"his most valuable asset has just walked the door"
Couldn't have been more precise.
Why not Gene Haas sell 40% for Andretti and make his coo ower , and we can see a Andretti-Haas project with a union will be injects more money in F1 team.
I think rather focus on what Gene Haas should or should not do I think pressure needs to be put on F1 and the F1 teams to allow Andretti F1 in. Andretti motorsport is a huge well funded team and they would come in to F1 with a team that is as professional as every other team on the grid. Andretti would bring a lot to F1 and open the door for other manufactures like Chevy which F1 has banged on about wanting more manufactures for years and now they have the chance it looks like they will not let Andretti in. Just having Chevy as a engine supplier will make Honda look again about staying and Toyota would take a look at getting back to the F1 grid. F1 has been slowly killing itself off by death by 1000 cuts for years and now they have a chance to reverse that trend they are to arrogant to take it.
Haas CNC machines are very nice, but they’re certainly not the best, or class leading in most cases. Without thinking twice, I’d choose DMG MORI in every instance if I had the additional money.
I’d definitely prefer to get Andretti as an 11th team there’s so many talented drivers. The grid used to be larger and I think adding another team would signal that the sport is growing and bring investors to all the teams. But if they are denied I think them buying out haas would make sense. I think when you have a team principal that hasn’t shown that they are helping the team achieve its goals they are going to get fired. That’s just the way F1 works. If it’s true that they are spending that much a season they definitely have the financial means to be performing better than they are.
There should be at least 2-3 more teams in the sport. There's too many talented drivers waiting for seats that will never be available because of the small number of teams.
Wait for the recession to hit and these lofty valuations with be rather south
This team is done for in its current form, I'm calling it now.
Absolutely 💯! Andretti racing is a vital part of F1's future in the US.
No rational person sees Haas as an American team. It is a hybrid team, of multiple countries.
No it is not, just another mobile chicane team.
@@ronbelanger4113 Andretti would be midfield up there with the likes of Alpine.
It looks good on a net worth statement which allows him to do a lot of things. He’ll be in no hurry.
Haas sees F1 as a rolling advertisement. He should partner up with Andretti, let a company who know what they’re doing run the team, be title sponsor, get the same exposure and spend a third of the money for the same exposure, i’d not mind seeing an Andretti Haas Cadillac on the grid.
CORRECTION: Gene Haas is not a billionaire. He is, as far as I can tell, not related to the famous Haas family that was related to the famous Levi Strauss family. He is very rich though, worth around 250 million, but definitely no billionaire.
Also, it's so odd how little F1 journalists seem to understand about organizations and are able to make a judgement about people. Haas has an engineering background and has been involved in racing for many years. He understands the challenges around creating a car and why he won't be as fast as Ferrari. When he said that they should be closer, he doesn't mean he can get a Ferrari chassis on the cheap and perform on top level F1.
Also, F1 is NOT a sellers market because the value of teams is rising. That means per definition that you want to wait as long as possible to get the maximum price off of it.
Using pit equipment from 2016 and the mini pit wall says it all about Gene and F1.
Is there a point in HAAS after they got rid of Gunther?
I don't think a sale will actually happen but it would be an elegant solution for Gene to sell the team for $200m to Andretti and then Haas as a corporation can re-invest those funds and use some of that windfall to become a major sponsor of the new Andretti / GM team. This way Andretti skips paying the entry fee to the other teams and the Haas logo stays on the grid while 95% of corporate people looking at F1 from the outside would never know the difference.
Of course the chances of Haas and Andretti getting in a room together and making a deal are somewhere between1% and zero.
600million is the vallue actually
In the CNC world, Gene Haas was/is an innovator, He created a new CNC company and built it up, and thrived where other older machine tool companies went under. For that, he should be applauded. As an F1 team, Haas is not an innovator. They were cunning to get to partner with Ferrari, but they do very little else to innovate. If they had discovered an aero trick that gave them 0.5sec a lap, they would be up with the big boys. But, alas, they never do. With the grid as close as it now is, they will remain last or thereabout unless they can invent/find an aero advantage, or the next MAX.
I feel like everyone is forgetting the advertisement. Gene has said numerous times the advertisement is worth it.
I think it’s the wrong question. The right question is why on earth not let Andretti in as an 11th team? I understand the reasons (economic from the teams’ perspective) but they’re not sufficient imho. We could use two more seats for all the great drivers trying to get in and there’s not a thing wrong with Andretti’s bid. If there are no circumstances under which they’d accept an additional team then don’t open the process.
With all the popularity of F1 the last few years, the value of each team has hit a peak never seen before. Gene will milk that for all it's worth, ride out 2024 and by the end of this seen we will see a clearer picture of his future plans. Clearly the value of each team isn't going down, quite the opposite so by end of this season especially if Haas is able to muster a bit more competitiveness to help it's place in F1, it can sell to Andretti for at least 1.5 times more than what it would at the end of 2023.
If Andretti is good for F1 then let them join as a new team. There will always be a back marker in F1, Haas being last doesn’t mean it needs to sell. It would be different if they were not scoring points, but they are.
They want to join as an 11th, F1 wont let them, that’s why this is a discussion!
@@2Greenlidyes, my point was that Andretti clearly wouldn’t be good for F1. Andretti buying Haas wouldn’t change that. What impact will it have on the US market when Andretti, month after month, are not able to participate in grands prix due to the 107% rule?
Hold on what if you got this wrong. Thoughts are that he asked for ownership. If he is going to sell, why would he give Gunter ownership?
If FOM refuses to add an 11th entry, I don't see why Gene doesn't just sell the team to Andretti and then try to make a contract in place where Haas Automation is their title sponsor. It allows Gene's brand to continue existing on the big stage in F1, while allowing for potential growth from a different team philosophy.