Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - Spoiler Review
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- Now that the fifth Indiana Jones film is in theaters, let's go over the plot, the characters, and whether this was the ending that Indiana Jones deserved.
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0:00 Intro
1:28 The leaks
3:53 Paramount & de-aging
7:56 Indy
14:28 Voller
16:46 Helena Shaw
21:10 Indy’s fate
27:42 Ad break: Factor
29:05 The ending
32:43 What didn’t work
36:23 Indy 5’s legacy - Zábava
"It was nice to get extra Indiana Jones, but I wanted it to be essential Indiana Jones." Couldn't have put it more perfectly than that.
For me, there's only ever been one essential Indiana Jones: Raiders. Everything else has been, at best, a distant second. Not one sequel has ever come close to the original. Not for me.
@@Windupchronicagreed
It was a decent bookend to me. The end of Mutt and the rekindling of Indy's marriage with Marian.
Yeah he nailed it with that one.
@@Windupchronicpersonally I always liked Temple and Crusade more, Crusade is my favorite.
Kind of crazy to think about how now, of all Harrison Ford's iconic genre characters, Deckard arguably got the least tragic ending.
For real
Honestly, the handling of Deckard had to be one of the most beautiful endings to a film in the last few years.
Bladerunner 2049 easily the best of the Harrison Ford sendoffs.
They really had Indy go on the journey to clear his name of murder and then never addressed it to end the movie. That was insane. I guess it all happened offscreen.
I think he said without his God daughter, he would be framed for murder. I guess it means she got him out of that since she returned
Helena was able to work around the law in other countries, so I don't think it is crazy to think that she did the same in the US. It's also something the government would want to sweep under the rug. Their focus was the moon, not unearthing an elder's Nazi plot post WWII.
@@BoomSlang001 The issue is just not addressing it to end the movie. Clearly she was able to get around, but Indy said that was his reason for going.
Wasn’t the same true of Batman Returns?
Are we certain that Helena was actually going to school? Given what we learn about her character as you watch the film, it would not surprise me at all of she completely made that up about having her degree in archeology or getting her dorctrine. I mean where does she have time and money to go to school when she has a fiance in Tanjire, constantly rips people off, steals stuff, owes people money probably, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I interpreted that to be a lie to get Indy to be impressed by her and get her into that archive room.
because she knows stuff?!
@@miam1074 only about one specific thing that she learned about from her dad. I know stuff and trust me, I'm an idiot.
I was coming to make this exact comment. Unless I missed something where it was confirmed, I totally assumed she just made the PhD research part up as an excuse for why she wanted to find the dial. Totally a ruse to con Indy in to giving her access.
I liked the idea of Indy staying in the past and becoming a part of the history he loved & taught. It made me think of the line in Raiders, where Belloq talks about a cheap watch becoming priceless if he buried it for a thousand years.
I loved the ending sequence. I wish there could have been a codirector approach. Spielberg should have directed the beginning sequence, then Mangold taking over for the rest of the film. That would have been something, but would have opened up the whole other can of worms.
@@JsscRchlDrsy I like that idea!
@@JsscRchlDrsy That would have been a nice passing of the torch. I believe the Directors Guild generally doesn't like more than one person being credited as director (exceptions being made for true teams such as the Cohens or the Wachowskis). Quentin Tarantino "guest-directed" a scene in Sin City (otherwise directed by Robert Rodriguez), but I'm not sure if that caused issues with the DGA that Disney would undoubtedly have wanted to avoid. That said, I thought the beginning sequence had more of a Spielbergian flair than the rest of the movie.
That’s exactly the feeling the director was attempting for a few beats, to feel like he was at peace living out his final hours there. It’s what Indy wanted, in a selfish way. Coming back was the right thing though/
@@JsscRchlDrsy I actually think Spielberg directed the opening sequence. He did that in Goonies and co-directed Poltergeist.
I just saw the movie tonight and I loved it. I thought the script (the story) was amazing. I was engaged the entire film (even being 154 minutes long), and never guessed what was coming. The characters were fully fleshed out, really good, and never deviated from their characters’ potential story arcs. I don’t really understand why someone would not like a really like a good Indy adventure with Nazis, history, paranormal experiences, and Indiana Jones humor and action. Yeah, he’s old, and that was dealt with in the humor, action sequences, and the story of the film. I would definitely rank it just below Raider’s and The Last Crusade. I think it was a very good, heartwarming ending for the character and his universe:)
254 minutes long?! I think you did your math wrong there. This isn’t a 4 hour and 14 min film. 🤣
How dare you say this is on the same level of “Temple of Doom” … yes, Temple of Doom isn’t as good as “Raiders of the Lost Ark” and “Last Crusade” … but damn it, it has heart. It’s a fun romp. I’d even go as far as to say on a rainy Saturday afternoon, I’d watch Temple of Doom just for fun over the others for a good time. This movie is as bad as Crystal Skull for different reasons. It’s soulless.
For me, I didn’t hate Helena Shaw, but she crosses the line several times, which makes her kind of a jerk.
She does get her redemption and that certainly helps.
Totally agree with you that they made Helena borderline irredeemable out the gate. My love and adoration for Phoebe Waller-Bridge carried me through a lot of her early actions. And for me, I also felt that because she had such a big hole to climb out of, her redemption felt a bit disingenuous. She went from 'I'm going to steal a priceless artifact from you and leave you locked in a building with literal murderers and then have zero remorse when you are in fact framed for said murders' to 'I will dive, unarmed, on to a moving airplane full of Nazis and fly through a rift in time to try and save you', in a pretty short timeframe.
Broken and depressed aren't the only ways that people express grief or deal with loss. Considering that has been done so much lately it would have been great if writers had stretched to explore other emotions. I don't mind them giving the character some darkness to overcome ; just wish they could have been more original
I'm so tired of OG Legends being turned into grumpy miserable hermits. Writers, you can start a story with a happy and content character. You just bring the hammer down on them in the inciting incident, and that will give them the call to action. It's not rocket science. I've seen high school fan fiction that have better backstories. Frodo is probably the best example of how to start a happy and content character.
@@TomCruz54321 Agreed. No marriage ever workes out. No couple is ever allowed to go on without becoming miserable. I'm so sick of it. Particularly if it's two actors who have a great deal of charisma toghether. Indy's marriage to Marion could the reason why he ultimately agreed to come back to the present. No knock out required. And the ending would have felt much less... contrived.
But unlike Han Solo, he actually gets a happy ending in this movie, he gets his legend status back
It makes me wonder how these writers are faring. Are they OK? Are they living as grumpy hermits themselves?
I didn't like the punching at the end! :( I thought they robbed Indy of his character arc. His whole adventure was about him learning to stop "living in the past", i.e. stop submerging himself in his work ("history") to avoid dealing with his trauma (his bleeding wound). Its the classic trope: Our hero goes through a series of adventures and meets people that help him realise the error of his ways, then at the last moment, just when he thinks he's out of the woods, he gets presented with an ultimate challenge, his greatest nightmare or, in this case, his greatest temptation. He stumbles for a moment, loses his faith, then remembers all he's learnt (hopefully with the help of his friends) and *makes the decision* to change. When Marion asks Indy if he's "back", it falls flat because Indy never completed his character arc. His last thought before he was knocked out was his need to stay in the past and fade away, just like he was doing at the beggining of the movie. Helena completed her arc by pleading for him to get on the plane (signaling to the audience that her priorities had changed), and should have helped him through his final challenge by talking him out of it (like his father did before), rather than *forcing* him through it. Idk, sometimes it feels like Hollywood has forgotten how to write basic Hero's Journey stuff.
I loved the third act time travel. I wanted more of those kind of surprises in Indy 5. It was a nice twist on the usual "be careful what you wish for" comeuppance the villains get in these films.
It was dumb af but it was fun dumb af. Only thing that pulled me out of it was the CGI
Totally agree. It was an absolutely blast and a really fun use of Chekhov’s Time Machine
Me too. I didnt think they were actually going to go back in time but was really excited when they did
As someone who spent too much of my formative years playing historic strategy games like Civilization and Rise of Nations, seeing a bomber fight Roman triemmes and legionnaires was awesome
Lmao! It reminded me of Empire Earth too haha
Really thoughtful review… agree on the overuse of CG. Problem with de-aging is the filmmakers think they need to showcase it in close ups. The mid shots look better and more in keeping with the style of the series… there was a cgi wide shot at the beginning where Indi runs on top of a train that was entirely animated. Surely they could have made better use of stunt doubles, even to provide realistic movement in post
Same with the bike chase and most of the intro in WW2. Nowadays is much easier, cheaper and safer to use CGI than actually film real vehicles chasing each other and it just looked like I was playing Wolfenstein :(
I only had two problems. One was the length. Indy films should be a quick, tight ride of a film. They shouldn't be long epics. The other is the one you mentioned where the "being framed" subplot is sort of just forgotten about. I loved the way they did the whole Indiana Jones thing where the villain gets himself killed. Loved watching Voller looking totally defeated and screwed.
Agree. Trimming the movie of its extraneous elements, including the murder subplot and Helena's sidekick and a few other bits and pieces, would have made for a tighter film.
Yeah that was weird. Once they found their agent was dead and the men she was with had disappeared, they put two and two together.
How long were the older ones?
@gregorypatricksmith8611 Raiders was about 1 hr 45. Temple was about 1hr 55. Crusade was about 2hr 05 and Crystal was about the same.
Voller men killed civilians without the CIA authorization, we had a scene of agent Mason reporting to the CIA after she had to go after Voller in Morocco.
Come for a lengthy review of Indy 5, stay for Dan's incredible Harrison Ford impression.
The “leaks” may have not been true, but they definitely reshot that ending. No way was the original idea to cut from her punching him to him on the couch.
Special effects should be used sparingly, in filling out backgrounds. When used too much and for front-and-center elements, it takes you out of the movie. It tends to make the movie look like a videogame cutscene. That's how I felt about that opening scene. I felt I was watching a cartoony version of Harrison Ford and the action (motorcycle sequence, on top of the train sequence) looked like it was out of a videogame cutscene. Make the action smaller and simpler but make it real. Please, Hollywood, learn this lesson. Make it real!
It also makes your film very expensive. CGI will always be used in big-budget movies, but it should blend in seamlessly
i agree. the face cgi wouldnt have bothered me so much, if it wasnt surrounded by a rainy cgi muck of nonsense. the underwater scene was also terrible. just cloudy videogame looking garbage.
I thought it was decent cgi, only a couple hiccups with the face stuff.
Depends on the movie
Exactly my thoughts...couldn't have put it better!
Dan. I watch alot of reviewers... THANK YOU FOR NOT IGNORING THE HOTEL WAITER SCENE!!
I thought that was a really good scene. Underplayed, but full of unspoken tension. A great way to help establish your villain.
The intention in the scene was very clear and it was well written and acted.
But in the real world I've been asked where I'm "originally from" many times. I don't take offense and have never taken it as a sign of racial prejudice. I assume people are genuinely interested, perhaps because a question that leads to a discussion about another country is more interesting than a discussion about another suburb. That said, I've never been asked the question by a Nazi who wants to go back in time to kill Hitler. (At least, that I know of.)
@@ProuvaireJean well it's about the tone of voice and context... the question in itself can show interest and be very kind or as we saw - a tease.
John Williams confirmed that there were reshoots for the ending....
I just wanted Harrison Ford to give his signature wide Indy smile, but I think he never really smiled in this movie :(
Dial of Destiny is by no means a bad movie! It could have been shortened by 15-30 minutes to help it but it the movie has very strong production values! Wasn’t bothered by Helena at also! Good review!
im glad you dont give into the immediate anger that seems be directed at new female characters these days. its gotten so tired.
Exactly. God forbid a movie or TV show released in 2023 should appeal to more than two of the four quadrants. (That said, I do admit that I think Helena could have been better developed. I wasn't expecting something with the range and emotional complexity of Fleabag in an Indiana Jones movie, but her character seemed to chop and change depending on the needs of the plot.)
i think Indy was originally meant to be the one in archimedes tomb. earlier in the film, he asks for his watch back, because it was his fathers. they find a watch on archimedes body. in one of the six endings that were filmed and tested, i would bet that Indy stayed in the past, and it would be implied that he built the tomb, and its him in the sepulcher
Yes - I thought that was a clear Chekhov's Gun moment. But I think it's just as, or more, likely that they wrote this in as a red herring.
It was Voller's watch.
I totally thought that too
No I never thought that ??
I thought it was going to be Mads Mikkelsen I thought him and Indy were going to fight it out in the tomb and he was going to die and stay there
Felt like Raiders in that Indy repeats the same feat of doing ALL the Nazis work for them, ie discovering and sourcing each clue, losing it to save a collesgue only for the Nazis to eventually defeat themselves with him a bystander/witness to events. Definitely felt the Marian/Leia vibes. Felt PWB was excellent and made a star turn here. Ford was in top form.
As I recall, Helena actually tries to get him killed twice; by locking him in with the Nazi agents, and by telling thecops to shoot him. She's too much of an outright antagonist for me to buy their bonding later.
She also should have talked Indy into coming back rather than simply knocking him out. Without Indy making the choice himself, there's no sense of him actually overcoming his personal demons.
Finally, I think giving Indy a Dead Child backstory just casts a pall over the whole thing. Indy as a character is essentially just a charismatic vehicle to follow on fun adventures, but something like this just saps the fun put of everything. I get why Ford as an actor would want to play dramatic scenes like that...but this is entirely the wrong venue for it.
Absolutey agree, found the Mutt thing to be weirdly heavy and doesn’t quite fit, but I guess we’re supposed to see Helena as a daughter stand in? Still it’s bothering me.
Helena is the villain. That’s why audiences stayed away. Dan defending her won’t age well.
@@lunarvisionAudiences will stay away because of a plot detail you only learn by watching it? There’s nothing to “age badly”. Audiences aren’t going because they’re not in the mood for another Indiana Jones movie.
@@MagiCaleb And not-great word of mouth. And previous negative experiences/disdain with Lucasfilm and Disney. And a general dislike for PWB. And less than favorable critics scores. It’s a combination of factors sinking this film.
I went to see this tonight JUST so that I could take in and follow your spoiler thoughts which were well worth the price of entry for sure. Your comments are, as always, smart, fair and informative. Spot on to the last sentence. Great job, Dan. 😊
I loved the first portion set in ww2. I didn't hate the rest, but it felt too long and a bit slow. In the last hour. It felt like it was missing something.
The problem with the 2nd half of this movie is that they expect us, the audience, to find Helena fun and charming. But, she's just self-centered and irritating. What's missing is someone to root for. Cause Indi is kinda just there for the ride.
@@thedarkemissarywhen she does that song and dance in the end of the second act, I really wanted to shoot her in the face instead of suave Antonio Banderas (what a waste of a great actor in a bit role).
@@thedarkemissaryand they keep shoving him back in his seat lol, I wanted him to kill that one henchman guy and he didn’t get to
Indy was never cleared of the murder charges! How could they leave that out?!
Pretty much agree with you except for Helena and the Archimedes. Helena wasn't bad or anything but she was really bland she was basically there as a tack on for Indy. If she had a scene without Indy to set her up as a character that might have helped. Archimedes setting up the dial to only go to his time felt like them forgetting that the bad guy is supposed to be done in by the artifact and adding that line in after the fact to justify it.
Nice to see Harrison reprise it for one last hoorah.
There’s a really excellent character moment in the beginning where everyone’s celebrating the Apollo rocket and he seems entirely detached from the enthusiasm towards the future that everyones celebrating, as a man so in love with the past, I found it a really profound few moments for the character :)
I thought the movie was ok. Harrison is still good as Indy. My favorite will always be Temple of doom
I think everyone is judging these movies too harsh because they first ones were made by Peak Spierlberg and Lucas at the heigh of their careers were they put a lot of effort and passion into these films after the 3rd they have all been purely commercial films same as after Original Jurassic Park. They are fun popcorn movies with a huge action star in the middle carrying the film 42 years later this is Bonus Indiana Jones.
Considering the costs of seeing a movie in a theatre, i have no problem with people wanting more than okay/good.
I’ve worked at several college professor’s homes. They’re quite fascinating. It’s like a mini-library or museum. Everything decoration has a story. Why is Indy, a distinguished professor at the end of his career living in a rundown apartment owning two pairs of socks, one he wears and another drying out the window? In Raiders he had a suburban house and he was a bachelor in his 30s. This is where he lives with his wife? Took me out a second..
I think that it’s hilarious that this film ALSO has the exact same “non-issue” that raiders has that TBBT called out- Indiana Jones has no effect on the outcome of the film.
If Indy doesn’t go on this adventure, Mads Mikkelsens character still obtains the dial, gathers his soldiers, goes back in time, and is shot down out of the air by Roman troops, leading all of them to die and Archimedes to obtain his watch.
I have also watched the AngryJoe review of this film, the comments are all people.saying "you think it was bad, you should have seen the original ending where helena replaced Indy, they had to refilm it after test audiences hated it"
It is shame people are so gullible
Even when Mangold said that never happened.
@@Lance37a someone said it on the internet, it is now fact, truth be damned
Time travel in this movie is the dumbest version of time travel ever invented. I hate it so much
24:20 Indiana Jones is Literally a Grave Robber. (insert scenes of the man descratinging MANY graves throughout the films) (insert scenes of Indiana Jones using someone's Leg Bone as a torch from the Last Crusade here)
I really enjoyed it. Agree with you about Teddy and cutting a few of those scenes down. Would love to see it a least break even, but they are making it hard on themselves. I loved the sweet ending with, “where doesn’t it hurt.” Thought the chemistry with Wombat was good as well. My ranking places it 3rd. I have history with Temple of Doom. Traumatized me since I accidentally watched it as a 4 year old. Lol. Thanks for the thoughtful review!
My thoughts exactly. Love the channel and your desire to be on the truthful side of things.
Also, where do you get your John Williams and Steven Spielberg shirts???
John Williams and Harrison, and Spielberg talked about reshooting ending late last year, and bringing Karen Allen back was last minute discision
1) John Williams said at an event in December "So we have just about completed the film. We have maybe another ending to shoot and to record, maybe in a couple weeks." Mangold clarified that the movie was nearly done, and that Williams was not referring to a completely reshot ending or significant reshoots of any kind - he was mistaken in how he referred to the work that needed to be done.
2) Harrison Ford said "We did a little work on the ending, which is the last thing I shot with Karen Allen, who has been in a substantial part of the whole thing, but appears in this story only briefly, at the end, but with a very strong, emotional hook. I felt nostalgia, a sense of accomplishment. I’m proud of the film, happy with the film.” Again, this could be anything - a day of pickups, a revision of the scene. Not an admission of significant reshoots.
3) I can find no source online of Steven Spielberg referring to reshoots being done.
4) This is a quote directly from Karen Allen: "“For almost two years, whenever anyone asked me if I was in the film or not, I had to come up with something to say, like, ‘I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.’” She goes on to talk about how long she had to keep her appearance a secret.
All of these 'proven facts' are people who have monetized outrage around this movie that will take literally anything as a sign that they are right, and they're succeeding. At best, these are wild suppositions based on extremely vague quotes. I implore you to dig deeper on things like this. These narratives are absolutely destroying discourse in the film community.
Harrison Ford and John Williams both confirmed that the ending was reshot, so that rumor was true.
I believe Helena told Indy to look at the tablet more closely cause she knew something was in it cause it was heavier.
She knew something was different about it - but Indy figured out how to solve it. I watched the scene very closely, she's confused about what he's doing and amazed by his solution.
I think a lot of people really have a naive view of how movies are made. They can't change big chunks of a movie because of some outrage over some leaks a few month before a movie is released. Thats just absurd and would produce a huge mess. If they would have done that, the movie would have to be postponed, because if would have delayed the whole process...
The idea of Dan seeing Jaws get filmed made me smile at my desk. Good analogy, sir.
I think your ask is just too great. Trying to get to Raiders or Last Crusade was an insurmountable hurdle. I wasn’t as hard on the movie. But I agree with you overall, a “good” movie just not a “great” one.
I just got back from seeing it, and liked it waaaaay more than any of the early reviews led on. Didn’t feel “woke” or anything, I have no idea where the anger came from.
Great video Dan. Really appreciated this analysis.
I thought that Dial of Destiny was pretty good overall. There was no glaring problems with the movie like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. If you found fault then you were just going out of your way to find fault with it.
was this a joke? it has to be
Totally agree with your comment about the climatic action scene. The plane versus the Romans. It’s such a cool pulpy sci-fi/ fantasy concept.
Thank you for your review! I found myself really enjoying Dial of Destiny, which surprised me. He score is so good, I loved the action, and I geared up a few times. Perfect? What does it mean to be perfect? Heartfelt and a great time, though? Yeah. I hope it doesn’t completely bomb…
Cgi Indy at the beginning was ok to me, it didn't bother me and I was totally into it. I haven't noticed the voice either. (And I was aware, because I think either you mention in the non spoiler review or someone else did.)
Helena Shaw was a great character to me, I loved her. She's Indy in Temple of Doom (which is a prequel to Raiders), when he was in search of Fortune and Glory, and changes his perspective. And I like Teddy, as Helena's own short round. He works to me.
The end was amazing to me! I'm a Classicist, to see Syracuse and Archimedes was as special to me as it was to Indy, and I'd love to have stayed there myself too! And I love the way Voller gets desperate when he realizes his plan didn't work.
Two things I wish didn't happen: that agent Mason hadn't been killed; and that Renaldo (Banderas) too had somehow survived. (This film made what Crystal Skull didn't: it gave an Indy's old friend on location as Salah is in Raiders and Last Crusade.. just: don't kill the old friend! Let him live!)
So, yeah! I'm pretty happy! This one goes as #3 to me. It's less weird and more enjoyable than Temple of Doom. Temple of Doom is likeable, but I prefer this one. (Also, I'm past my bitterness concerning Crystal Skull. Yes, the third act of that one is not good, and yes, it's fifth in ranking, but I do put it on sometimes to watch it, and I do enjoy it too. And nice interesting twist in the score at the end of the credits, when it goes up instead of going down..)
So, Raiders, Last Crusade, Dial of Destiny, Temple of Doom, and Crystal Skull.
I'd see a Helena Shaw spin off, but we know it won't happen any time soon. So, that's ok.
Cheers!
Gus
Noticed your Indiana Jones VHS box set in the background. Nice! I have that one too!
One of the first sensible reviews i’ve seen on this that isn’t just ‘weird youtube thumbnail outrage poison’, well done and good review 👏
The weird outrage poison, is your actual opposition. Millions and millions of people ACTUALLY feel differently than you.... It's called DIVERSITY, and it is our strength.
If you can't tolerate other opinions, you shouldn't be on the internet. Because the internet is for EVERYONE. Not just those who agree with you.
@@monopalle5768 Most of the people who hold your opinion haven’t even seen the movie, and their disproven takes were made up long before the film even came out. The moment I hear the word ‘woke’ come from someone I might as well shut off my ears because i’ve yet to hear someone speak sense after it.
@@homeslicebread8443 Did you even read their comment? They didn't have an opinion on the film and the opinion they actually expressed doesn't require seeing the movie.
You're kinda proving their point.
@@randomcharacter6501 Your reading and context comprehension skills are showing, they said it is ‘OUR’ strength and was defending what I said I didn’t like. That tells me what I need to know about them and I made my choice. I never said the internet wasn’t for everyone but that doesn’t mean anyone has to tolerate gross people.
Loved Dial of Destiny! Ford was great. The opening train sequence was epic. A lot of great subtleties to Ford's performance. Mads was fantastic. The most memorable Nazi villain this series has had. Everything written for his character was perfect. The search for Archimedes tomb was well done and tense, and the ending was sweet, I thought. Helena didn't bother me as much as some (I don't want Indy really chummy and sweet with his side kick all movie), and I liked her character growth in the final hour, too. She learns to respect Indy as a father figure and is humbled to a great degree. This isn't an incredible movie, but it's a very good one, and easily better than Crystal Skull, and just a tick below Temple of Doom for me. I'm so glad they made this as Indy's send-off rather than leaving it with Crystal Skull.
Wow this is the first comment I see that are positive about dial of destiny, I Must see the full movie for myself before I can speak open minded, I know many hate this movie but we should appreciate all 5 movies realistically.
Great review and insight, I’m pretty much with you 100% and feel the same. And visiting the set of JAWS would be pretty gnarly
5. Dial of Destiny
4. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
3. Raiders of the lost arc
2. The Last Crusade
1. Temple of Doom
Love this channel, Dan!
i think the deaging was perfect and i didn't even notice that the voice was kinda old. I've seen a lot of reviewers complain about it. Idk, i'm not one to like anything for instance i thought leia looked pretty goofy in rogue one and luke looked goofy in the mandalorian but in indiana jones i completely bought it.
I didn't think it was quite perfect (the faces looked a bit blurry to me when moving), but it's scary how good deaging tech has become. X-Men 3 (the first movie I recall seeing it) wasn't _that_ long ago. I suppose _knowing_ they used deaging software on an actor also puts up an additional psychological barrier to the suspension of disbelief.
"I know what a human face looks like" Best humblebrag of all time.
I was actually fine with the de-aging on Ford (and Mikkelsen) in the first scene. It was his old man voice that was the most distracting. I also don't buy at the end that Indy figured out that Archimedes didn't factor in continental drift but Voller didn't. I think Voller, who was a rocket scientist, would have anticipated that.
I find it fascinating how people can watch the same movie and interpret it so differently. Although the premise of the movie was a neat idea, the overall script , dialog , casting choices and even some effects were (in my opinion) poor.
Agree. I don’t think Dan is on the take or anything; but I raised an eyebrow when he puts this drivel ahead of Temple of Doom. Really, Dan?
@@lunarvision of course he is on the take
@@happychappy492 Yeah, noticing he’s unusually defensive for modern giant corporate movies that general audiences are rejecting. His defense of Helena was…weird.
I get the de aging isn’t perfect yet, but it’s good enough to tell the background for the story. I went going in understanding Ford was still 80, playing 40. I recall movies from the 70s, 80s, even 90s that attempted (poorly) to de age actors for movies with makeup, it’s very obvious and dates the movies, as do older FX. What they used in this movie is just better makeup, still not perfect, but it’s the best they have, as was the case 40 years ago too.
Shame they didn’t do voice de aging for some of the dialog, you would think that would be simpler.
Helena was a jerk to Indy through at least 2/3 of the movie.. She was ready to let him be captured and maybe even killed many times, so Indy helping her and rescuing her again and again didn't work to me.. and the whole that time she was so disrespectful to him and never even said "thank you" but instead she said "I could do it myself".She is also a psycho. She saw so many people die.. some with a horrible death and she doesn't care. In fact, she is making jokes right after that. I didn't like her at all. But at least , it's reasonable for her to be that smart. That little Mary Sue kid was the worst part of the movie..He can't swim but just one touch of water and he knows not just to swim but also a dive and to breath under water. But that airplane scene is making Dom Toretto blush. Also all that CIA going after Helena and Indy is totally ridiculous.
Another time travel movie, brain is hurting.
Indiana Jones should have stopped after The Last Crusade. But if we were forced to have more Indy films, I would rather have this film be his send off than Kingdom of the Crystal Head Vodka.
Yeah very messy, but a satisfying last scene.
Good stuff as always Dan
#AskDan Having watched this back to back with Last Crusade, i can't get over how bad it looks in comparison. Why can't blockbusters these days look anything near as good as movies from so long ago, even with their monster budgets?
I know Crystal Skull is bad. There are three specific parts of that film that piss me off. However, it ended with Indy, Mutt, and Marion happy, which I can at least appreciate.
Why then did this film have to start (after the prologue) with Mutt dead after volunteering for Nam, Indy a miserable drunk, and Marion essentially missing? It was jarring and unnecessary, and soured me on the movie. Just have him be upset at being forced to retire, then Helena shows up wanting to find the dial and Marion convinces him to go. Have Mutt married. I don't go to action adventure movies to be reminded that life sometimes sucks.
Also, every single chase scene went on for too long.
Thanks for a great review!
I've seen a lot of discourse online with people still refusing to see the movie or slating it because of those completely baseless 'leaks'. Such a shame how easily misinformation spreads now.
I enjoyed the film anyway and I'd genuinely watch a Helena spin-off. It's a shame she's being torn apart due to lets face it...pure sexism.
Ok, I need to get this out, but I could SWEAR TO GOD that hugh jackman was one of the guys on antonio banderas’ boat.
Great insightful and balanced review! Getting super annoyed by those others reviews that just have click-bait hate titles. I guess that's how you get views. Again, enjoyed your review!
I fundamentally disagree with you about the character arcs in this movie. I just do not see how anybody can call them complete in any way.
Helena has the setup of an arc - going from profit-motivated to actually caring about the history of what she's uncovering - but she never actually comes out the other side of that, or actually makes a choice that cements her spiritual change. The movie seems to think that her just caring about Indy is a substitute for overcoming her flaws, but it just... isn't? I don't think that the Helena of Act I would have left him to die with the Nazis in the cave, so her choosing to help him in Act III accomplishes exactly nothing.
(She did obviously leave him trapped with the Nazis in the university, but I didn't ever think the movie was saying she was leaving him to his death.)
Indy has the exact opposite problem, where he has what looks and feels like the payoff to an arc - choosing to stay in the modern world and accepting that he still has a place in it, if he opens himself up to it and the people he loves - but the movie absolutely fails to set it up in any meaningful way. At no point do I feel like Indiana Jones is struggling with 'modernity' or his place in the world. His struggle is with his inability to communicate with the woman he loved, which tore them apart when their son died and drove him into a deep depression. Setting up his Final Choice to be turning away from history that (we're *told*) he loves so much and returning to his modern life is absolutely not a thematic answer to the questions the movie ACTUALLY poses about his character.
But even then, the movie utterly fails inside of that failure by taking AWAY that choice! He doesn't learn or grow, even if we're generous with the arc the movie set him on. He DID choose to stay in the past, repeatedly! At no point did it even seem like he was going to change his mind. Instead he had the choice forcibly taken away from him by a character that, honestly, had no real reason to drag him back beyond a base human sentimentality. It is some of the most staggeringly poor character writing I have ever seen, and I can't believe that it wasn't wiped out in the first round of structural edits on this script.
This movie fails both of these characters, but it especially fails Indiana Jones. It's bad enough that they ripped him out of his happy ending from The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and turned him into a depressed alcoholic with an ex-wife and a dead child, but they didn't even have the decency to have him overcome that characterisation over the course of the narrative. Where we leave him, in his final appearance, is as a broken shell of a man who we are never shown to be actually convinced of his worth or place in the world. The last meaningful thing he did was choose not to return to his life - and that's honestly just really, really sad.
Excellent analysis. Can second this 100%. To add: Vollers helpers could have been a bit more seriously dangerous IMO. I think he wouldn't let have him surrounded with these two clowns.
Fantastic review/discussion Dan :)
So if I man were to have a sidekick who was a pubescent girl, we would probably think of him a some kind of pedophile; but somehow a woman with a young boy is okay? I kept thinking to myself what kind of a relationship do these two have that he keeps going along with her all over the world, commit crimes, as well as fly a plane. It's ridiculous.
I thought the movie was pretty mid. I like the beginning a lot. Really felt like an Indian Jones movie. Then the time skip just killed all the agency for Indy's character. And ultimately he learns to let the past go and move on. Kinda the opposite of the whole "pro-history" angle of his character. Like, I'd hoped that maybe appreciating history (which noone in his current present setting seems to do) would have mattered or had an effect in some way. It didn't. And then Helena learns that everything will just work itself out as long as she Helenas as hard as she can. Remember that part where Helena's con, theft and scam gets 3 of Indy's friends and colleagues killed? Helena doesn't. But, at least she remembered Indy's hat. Time for ice cream.
One of my biggest issues was Helena I just never liked her character I do agree punching Indy at the end was the right choice and not a fan of Teddy as well. But do agree seeing the ancient battle and going back in time was so cool.
The problem I had with Helen Shaw wasn’t that she was a perfect character but more so that she came off so arrogant and obnoxious. It makes sense that she has a knowledge for the history because of her father but she was just unlikeable in my opinion.
I'm surprised so many people include Temple of Doom in the "lesser" Indiana Jones movies. I'd much rather watch Temple than Crystal Skull or Dial of Destinee. In fact I love that movie aside from one VERY offensive scene. Other than that, I think it's great.
Was it a twist that archimedes set the dial to bring future people back to him? I just thought they didn’t calibrate the device right and by chance they came back to archimedes time…
They say at one point 'it was a false choice' - basically, Archimedes programmed the dial to bring people back to his time. They could have done a better job of establishing this.
@@DanMurrellMovies makes more sense, but yeah definitely missed that detail
Dan I don’t think you understand that taking cultural artifacts from their resting place to western museums is considered grave robbing by many of the cultures that have had that happen to them. I’m a huge fan of the classic trilogy of Indiana Jones movies, but his adage of “it belongs in a museum” is a relic of a racist past.
For some reason, the de-aging didn’t bother me. I enjoyed it overall but it was about 20 minutes too long.
Thanks for this review. It helps me to better appreciate this movie. I had similar thoughts and emotions, but I couldn't say it that well.
I'm 100% convinced that anyone saying that this de aging looks like a video game cutscene doesn't actually play video games.
i didnt hate this movie, but it made me feel absolutely nothing. no excitement, no suspense, no emotion. just meh. i HATED skull. this one is just ultimately forgettable.
I was pleasantly surprised with Helena Shaw. From the trailers she reminded me of Hercule Poirot's annoying friend (even ressembling him), but in the movie itself she was anything but.
She started as unlikeable but that was part of her character arc from selfish to selfless.
On the other hand:
1) What a waste of Antonio Banderas. He should have had more screentime before his awesome heroic death.
2) For half the movie I was convinced Indy threw one half of the dial to Mads Mikkelsen in the prologue (distracting him so he would fall off the train) and kept the other half. Maybe I'm just dumb, or maybe the film should have had a 3-second shot of Mikkelsen surviving and discovering he didn't catch the dial.
I have no problem with Helena being the one who brings Indy back, and the catalyst that saves him, I just wish it had been done by talking to him, or instilling hope in him, rather than simply punching him and bringing him home
Thanks for another fantastic review 👏 You echo most of my thoughts on this movie. Good addition to the canon, but not anywhere near the levels of the original trilogy. Still I’m glad we got it just for the Crystal Skull not to be the final entry. Also don’t understand the Helena hate, I think Phoebe Waller-Bridge is very funny and charismatic and her character in this is written well enough (miles away from the L3 disaster.)
You have one of the best reviews of this movie! Thanks
I wish Ke Huy Quan came out of retirement just one year earlier. He would have absolutely been in this movie for sure and it would have been even better. Maybe replace the kid character with an adult Short Round.
I find it quite interesting that while I normally agree with Dan on at least the overall feeling about a film in this case we are quite apart with this one. My main problem with Dial of Destiny is that it was dull. I found most of the set pieces to be quite boring. It is ultimately quite a forgettable movie for me and it lacks memorable moments. (And the Temple of Doom is significantly more impressive). But that’s just me.
The nazis would have increased altitude in order to keep from being hit by harpoons and spears and catapult projectiles.
I firmly believe that the leaks were real at some point. Disney is infamous for MASSIVE reshoots and it wouldn't surprise me if the original cut was Rise of Skywalker levels of awful.
Totally agree with you Dan. Too much telling and not showing and the ending seemed like way too rushed too me. Like they had to knock Indy out so we could jump to the end. Like they couldn’t think of a way to get there. I like your suggestions on how it could have been done. My biggest thing though, was this movie was unnecessary. We’ve had a “ending” for Indy three times now with Crusade being the best one by far. Overall it was fine to meh. Which is sad for the last Indy film.
I kind of loved the movie and the only major problem that I had was the de aging throw me off but I heard about that so I was ready to deal with that. It gave me everything I wanted and that makes me happy. Call me a simple man if you must but that's how I am.
The de-aged effects look totally fine to me. I can't even find what people are talking about when they say it's bad.
it makes perfect sense for him to stay with archimedes!
his son is dead, his wife left him and the only reason she comes back is a phone call helena makes?!!
he hunted relics all his life. now that its over, why not rest in peace in the past?!
the ending of the third was completely different.
i dont think she was driven by values or thought about archimedes fate lol
People were leaving half-way through! This was soooooo bad.
As usual, I agree with most of Dan's observations, and I'm particularly glad that we got Dan doing his Harrison Ford impression in the review - something that's always a hoot.
With James Mangold in the director's chair (and Jez Butterworth - who's an absolutely brilliant playwright - one of the main screenwriters) I was hoping for something as good as Logan, which I think is the best comic book movie* ever made. (The asterisk is because Logan is arguably actually a western in the guise of a comic book movie. Infinity War is the best _pure_ comic book movie ever made.) Dial of Destiny however is a mid-tier Indiana Jones movie. Solid, but not spectacular.
Mangold's more serious tone meant we didn't have the goofiness of a fridge being nuked or monkey rope-swinging action. Thankfully. But it also meant the sense of fun that Spielberg consistenty brought to the franchise was largely missing. It's a fine line between fun and stupidity. Crystal Skull shot past it and Dial of Destiny stayed far away from it.
Indy's decision to stay in the past I thought could have been set up better. Yes, we had scenes where we saw him as an old man out of his time, and even out of his depth. (It felt a little weird to see him consistently try to call for help first before taking it upon himself to solve a problem. Although, I suppose that could be the difference between running into bad guys in 1969 New York City as opposed to 1930s Cairo, instead of a comment on his age.)
But this feeling of Indy being isolated never really landed with the weight that it needed to in order for him choosing to remain in ancient Greece to feel true. Maybe a scene with Marion earlier in the movie might have helped in this regard, but I suppose they wanted to leave Karen Allen's cameo as a surprise at the end. (In which case they should have tried to clear up the movie's imdb entry.)
I don't know if that lack of setup for that - what was meant to be the emotionally climactic - scene is a failure, or a deliberate cop-out, given that Indy actually _doesn't_ live out his remaining days in Greece. Ie, that the writers thought "We can't make the audience think that staying in the past really is the best decision for him, because he's not going to get what he wanted anyway".
The bit where she slugs him by the way got the biggest (maybe only) audible reaction in the theatre when I saw it. Speaking of Helena, my issue with Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character is that I thought she was pushed around at the end of a plot stick. She was mercenary and border-line villainous when the plot required her to be, and then turned helpful and good when the plot required her to be. I didn't get a strong sense of the events of the movie driving a change in her character. That was a little disappointing because Waller-Bridge is a _fantastic_ writer (whom I understood to have contributed to the script) and a very good actor, and I expected Helena to be more well-rounded as a result.
Couldn't agree more with Dan's Harrison Ford impressions. So entertaining!
The range of the product the suits want for a movie like this seems to fit in a space the size of a jewelry box. So it doesn't matter that a good writer is on the team---on every side there is a convention constraining most of the characters.