Doctor Who: The Legend Of Ruby Sunday Ending EXPLAINED! Sutekh Return, More Gods Coming?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Sutekh returns! The ending of The Legend Of Ruby Sunday brings back one of the most powerful villains in Doctor Who history, but who exactly is Sutekh, how did this happen, and what might the future hold? Here's Ellie to explain!
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I'm liking the break from Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, etc...
It's a breath of fresh air, spotlighting these other classic monsters/villains.
I completely agree
@@bahbus 100 percent this. I could handle more weeping angels but I was getting a little bit tired of Daleks and cyber men always being the big bad
@@AleenaLee277 Thanks for backing me up on this. Although I kinda found it anticlimactic it was nice to explore new foes.
Hi from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Where are you located?
The bit about sutekh being in wild blue yonder reminded me about the salt situation and 14 being really concerned about creating a superstition at the edge of the universe!
That's why this season has all been supernatural rather than science
That was what I thought at first, but if you think about it that doesn't really explain it because we heard the Sutekh noises and saw Susan Triad before the whole salt thing happened
@@robo3007 ah good point! But also - timey wimey 🤷🏼♀️😂
@@robo3007 I can think of a few reasons for that fact actually.
1. If we take the idea of him being a god literally,- then it would make sense that Sutekh may be able to use Quantum mechanics and put Susan Triad there before he we fully unleashed.
2. If he really has become the leader of this pantheon of massively powerful beings, then when the Trickster or Mara or Toymaker got out, it's possible he had them place her into existence.
@@angbald But it hasn't really, has it?
Up to this episode, we've only had 3 stories out of 7 that could be considered supernatural rather than sci-fi (TCoRR, TDC and 73Y).
i have a theory that when “ruby’s mum” was “crying” we’re gonna see a new shot in the next episode that reveals it’s actually the trickster laughing instead
I was thinking the same thing, the misleading "she's crying" felt obvious
@@Necro.Divinity frr there’s defo something else at play
Definitely possible, I also think it's not Ruby's mum. Maybe the Trickster but could also be something crazy like Ruby (some bootstrap paradox) or a future version of the Doctor. Definitely going to be something other than Ruby's mum though... Unless Ruby is her own mum, creating herself Bad Wolf style. I wouldn't put anything past RTD 😂
@@JoshWiniberg That or the trickster is her mother, that would be terrible for Ruby. Imagine finding out your the offspring of a psychopathic murder god!
@@JoshWiniberg i feel so bad for ruby tho like i’m so worried she’s gonna find out she doesn’t have a mum at all!! :((
After Susan Triad transforms in that episode I swear to God she looked just like Riff-Raff from Rocky Horror
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I did too!
me too 🤣 perhaps sutekh is a transylvanian
@@lowriderbug Considering the politics of the show, he is at least likely to be Transexual or a Transvestite if not Transylvanian,
Factually correct
from traaaansexual transylvaniaaa
If Sutekh has been wrapped around the TARDIS this whole time, is that why in the titles it seems to be slightly less in control, hitting and sparking off the Time Vortex?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YES
No I don't think so, I think that's just the TARDIS considering how wonky it's been, I mean in the 9th and 10th time the landings were always hard and would throw everyone down but it is interesting that all the sudden we're hearing groaning sound ever since she was split. I wonder if he was somehow trapped inside the dimention of the TARDIS and being split made it possible for him to escape
@@ashleyklotz3762RTD did tell us to look out for the sparks on the TARDIS, so it could be intentional
Yes, I believe.
@@EndreHorpestad it very well could be, they're doing a great job of keeping us guessing that's for sure
Suetehk did also mention "The Mara, god of beasts" when he was listing off the gods in the pantheon....the 5th Doctor fought him twice as he possessed Tegan.....the Mara's true form was a giant snake
Also the three gods of Ragnarok mischief,mayhem and the other
Are you sure the Mara was not the god of dreams? Since it existed in the dream world the giant snake was part of the dream. They were trapped in Tegan's dreams twice. Like the dream crabs story only without the dream crabs.
The Mara is woman not a bloke hence way she possesed Tegan! Plus she is more psychological villian creating fear and darkness!
Will this bring Tegan back since she has intimate knowledge of the Mara? It may also try and use her again to gain control of everything.
Mara is mentioned in the video but I doubt we’ll see that one return (although you never know at this point)
So I've had this theory swirling in the back of my mind for some time now and it all comes back to most Who fans least favourite storyline... The Timeless Child. Now, ever since RTD returned as lead writer, he's constantly mentioned that he isn't retconning the Timeless Child storyline whatsoever and we've seen that with a bunch of references to it throughout series 14. But now I've got a feeling that he's actually building on the foundations of TTC and using it for a grander story in the making...
When the revelation of TTC occurred, we learnt that the Doctor is actually from an unknown dimension and his true species is also unknown, so what if the Doctor is actually a member of this Pantheon just like the Toymaker, Maestro, Suetekh and the Trickster but the Doctor is actually the God of Life and serves as a counterpart to the evil Gods. This would also explain where his regeneration powers come from as well. On top of this, i'd like to think the Doctor was being hunted by this evil Pantheon and to escape their wrath, he disguised themselves as a child and hide away in a different dimension hoping they wouldn't find him but eventually they did and have continued hunting him across time, space and dimensions!
I love this idea. If not life, then Time or Entropy. He represents the continuation of the universe and tends to work against those that seek to mess about with the path of time.
However, "The Doctor" title, definately inferrs a god of Life. But not the creation of it, the preservation of LIfe and the "Rightful Order of Life". Going from a beginning, to a natural and predetermined end, each universe has its time after all. Which is why When he tried to mess around with that rightful order of life in "The Waters of Mars(?)" The woman he forcefully saves, ends up killing herself to restore the balance of order.
Or Maybe just Order and Destiny. I dunno its all gone myffic.
I think the OP here has a really good idea and I love it.
Ngl this is actually a pretty cool concept
😮 I’m 56 years old I remember watching pyramids of Mars when I was a kid I just re-watched it and it’s still scared the crap out of me. Such a great episode.
Ditto. I used to cross my arms like the doctor does in the sarcophagus and really freak myself out!
I rewatched it Sunday afternoon. Was a blast! Forgot how much I enjoyed Four + Sarah Jane
☺️ Sarah Jane was class. She was one of the first ones that I could remember from my time where she was confronted by dire circumstances instead of just breaking down, she would tell the doctor OK let’s go fix it and Tom Baker was class whenever she would say stuff like that. You see this big grin on his face like he was like so proud of her that was such a great pairing.
My abiding memory of that story is just how nasty and powerful the villain seems to be. He rattles the 4th doctor.
Watch it regularly and long term fan
The babies need to get more familiar with the entire series back to 1963
Honestly if this is 15’s thing going forward they should get Neil Gaiman to pen a few episodes with the gods.
@Bubblesthewitch that would more than make up for some of the lows of these season… even if the episode he wrote *BUTCHERED* the Cyberman, he’s still one of my favorite authors.
I concur!!!!
@@thepopeisnotawarcriminalapparently that episode was meddled with quite heavily, he had a really bad experience with NiS
That would be excellent. I really enjoyed American Gods
Frankly I've never got the big song and dance over Gaiman. Neither of his episodes particually blew my socks off.
The first one felt like some weird shipping fanfic. Whilst the second...
Ellie, check this out. Susan Twist has been in every episode since Wild Blue Yonder, except for The Giggle. Unless ... unless she was. We still don't know who picked up the Toymaker's gold tooth.
😮
Watched Pyramids of Mars today, loved how there was call backs to the episodes in this series in PoM, like when the doctor took Sarah to the 80s to see it destroyed aka the same as the Maestro episode.
And the "I bring Sutekhs gift of death to all humanity" line
The call backs are from the new episodes to the Classic ones not the otherway about.
Ellie:"Who is Sutekh?"
Me: *seeing Sutekh* "He is a good puppy!"
Voiced by a Woolf
Sutekh is Goofy the Destitute 😂
he is the one who waits to go walkies. 🤣
Sounds like the advice, “Laugh at the devil, he hates it.”
Or a bat. Then again, I've always thought bats look like winged puppies...
Suetehk being the eldest amongst the listed God's also explains Mystro's reaction to Ruby when it starts Snowing /& Holiday music playing. In that moment of Ruby's memory the infant Ruby may have seen Suetehk wrapped around the tardis.
Harbinger also mentioned "The threefold deity of Malice and Mischief and Misery..." which is maybe relevant to the whole Triad thing? Maybe even a call back to the three Gods of Ragnarok?
I took that to be the Beast, since it is unnamed
МММ is russian financial piramid from earlly 90th😂
the gods of ragnarok were what I thought of when when that came up . . .
Well, time to rewatch Pyramids Of Mars. I’m not complaining. No but seriously, though the reveal is quite obvious in hindsight the way it was done with the buildup of music to the sudden silence is so rewarding. Personal 10/10 episode. Hope Empire of Death is just as good.
Just watched Pyramids of Mars a few weeks before the new season started, for the 1st time, I might add. Totally great, Sutekh seems to be one of the few real threats to the doctor.
I would LOVE to know the viewing figures for Pyramids of Mars this week.
@@richardgale1287 I was looking on BritBox through Amazon prime and it said season 13 was number one on trending
For sure, definitely didn't expect this!
The Trickster also, notably, enjoys alternate timelines. If Ruby is linked to him, 73 Yards becomes a bit more relevant.
EDIT: doubly so because 73 Yards follows his MO quite a bit. A tiny shift toppling dominoes until the world ends. And it almost did, simply because of that one misstep.
This is great and all, but what I want to know is Will Cherry Sundae get her cup of tea next week. 😂
@SassySapphireCrafts we’re *all* waiting
She’s the best part of the new episodes
@@thepopeisnotawarcriminal She gets the best lines.
I'm thinking about Seven's final words on screen: There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea’s asleep and the rivers dream (River's dream?). People made of smoke (Sutekh?) and cities made of song (Maestro?). Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. (sorry Cherry)
#LetCherrySundaeHaveHerTea
another link is that in the Giggle, Donna asked Mel "Mel is this Static or Dynamic" and Mel responds with "Dynamic, We're using Triad". That may be a coincidence, but even then, Susan Triad was being mentioned. It's a line many just threw away, especially as it was followed by the amazing dance number, but re-watching it, made me spot it differently. It may be showing either how much her technology is used already, or could be linking to something in the next episode (maybe Sutekh is going to refer back to the Giggle?) just seems to coincidental IMO
I think S. Triad was on the side of a bus (The Giggle?)
@@ianstopher9111 I don’t recall seeing a bus in the giggle, but will rewatch the star beast and the giggle as they’re the two based on earth, surely one of them will have it! It sounds like something RTD would do for certain though!
@@ianstopher9111 Yes it's been confirmed it's a poster on the side of one of the Double Decker Buses in the show.
I think it's at the beginning of The Church on Ruby Road, when Ruby gets off the bus, when Merry Christmas Everyone by Shakin' Stevens is playing 🚌🎄🕺🏻
Plus maybe 'The Star Beast' was never Beep the Meep but the boss Beep mentioned....
I just..... I don't understand how everything could possibly be wrapped up in ONE episode and still be satisfying. I'm concerned...
Technically in the uk there is a tales of the TARDIS episode on Thursday on BBC iplayer, BBC4 that will have the Doctor & Ruby. It'll probably feature pyramid of Mars.
@DanBen07 Yeah but... how much plot is going to happen? How much plot can they do without upsetting foreign and future viewers? I just think it's gonna suck if you need to pause your future viewing of series 14 to go watch a different show and then come back
I always love when they do the classic villains. It reallys connects the dots.
Especially when it isn't just Daleks, Cybermen or the Master again.
Fair enough. But I would love a story about each one of them with Disney money.
Don't forget that The Division and Techeun had a spaceship in the void
and the dr has crossed the void to other dimensions twice. and there was a dalek filled time ship out there aswell.
Sooo….
Not quite void after all?
that means it’s totally possible that sutekh was in the timeless child fobwatch lol
This felt like a true Doctor who episode! I wasn’t feeling most of the season but this gives me hope for the final!
@TravelsTTG I also thought that Boom and Rogue were alright
I actually said that while watching the episode. Glad I am not the only one that thought that.
Agreed 💯🎉🎉🎉🎉
Given how RTD traditionally handles finales. I'm not holding my breath...
@@thepopeisnotawarcriminal Boom, Rogue and this episode had a lot of the more typical Doctor Who elements, and they have been very well executed. When RTD is at the top of his game, it's pretty spectacular. Sadly, when he's off of it, he creates space babies.
That sound the Tardis has been making has been bugging me as I recognised it from Classic Who, and I twigged what it was last night.
It’s the sound of the Malus from Fifth Doctor story The Awakening. 😁
Who?
If so interesting points, it has a missing grandfather, games of a war, a creature the malus that feeds on the games- another destructive entity, the last of which will be no game but real
A solid theory put forward by Louisa Mellor over at Den of Geek is quite simply, Sutekh corrupted* the Doctor's wife (the TARDIS, not River). "As H. Arbinger explained: 'He has hidden in the howling void, he has hidden within the tempest. He has braved the storm and the darkness and the pain and he whispered to the vessel. All this time he whispered and delighted and corrupted*, and the vessel did obey, for none should be more mighty and none should be more wise than the King himself. And the Lord of Time was blind and vain, and knew nothing.'" *not the word, see the article.
The guys from Stargate have been fighting with Sutekh between the two Dr. Who episodes, so perhaps that's how he escaped from the void.
Personally i think sutekh has been around before the tardis lands in wild blue yonder as susan twist appeared before the tardis reached the edge of the universe and the tardis groaned before the salt scene indicating that 14 using superstition at the edge of the universe isn't the reason sutekh is back
I think Wild blue yonder is when sutekh attached to the TARDIS, but in flux tardis was very weird + the whole universe distruction might have let him escape
How do we know that the woman dropping Ruby off is her mother? That feels like a big assumption we have all made...
Rewatching the Sarah Jane adventure atm and in the first season when Maria has to save Sarah from limbo and the trickster - basically - the Trickster actually mentions what it would be like to get their hands on the doctor so maybe after all this time The Trickster has been devising a plan with Sutekh since then
Trickster should definitely be in doctor who as already this season there has been so much to connect to him, the fact that Ruby's hidden song was the tricksters theme from sarah jane adventures, the fact that the woman wears the same clothes but was also said to have a shadowed form by the doctor so it could be the trickster in disguise, also u have the fact that Ruby's story arc is ofc very similar to sky's arc in sarah jane adventures and seeing as Ruby's story continues next season I believe that's when we'll see the trickster
I think that Ruby is going to be the key to defeat Sutekh, and I suspect that her mother will turn out to be another deity, but not one of the Pantheon of Discord, rather one that is diametrically opposed to Sutekh. A goddess of life and creation.
Either Isis or Nephthys
That's a really interesting theory, maybe a god of harmony as snow brings quiet and peace
Or even the Christmas theme being in line with joy?
pantheon of concord potentially?
@@Necro.Divinity Or the Trickster wanting to take the top spot in the pantheon
Maybe the fact that the Doctor is now in the "Mavity" timeline, maybe he'll find a way to restore the "Gravity" timeline.
Omg yes! I always thought it was the Toymaker who was messing with the timelines, but your theory (even if it's a joke) actually could make perfect sense! Has the show referred to mavity recently?
I always thought this important, like Mrs Flood recognizing/ not recognizing the TARDIS, or Ruby changing the events of '73 Yards', time is changing.... Interestingly note the clock showing 1508 BEFORE the 1500 Triad announcement, in the ominous Mrs Flood scene, that stood out, either a continuity error or it means something as it seems to be a mismatch- the wrong time and the radio is playing up.
There are two TARDISes so could they too have a good/evil duality, with Susan Triad upset thinking who is the man (the Doctor) and about the dreams the TARDIS trying to fight the entity of Sutekh off? TARDIS it means life (Capaldi's Doctor), life vs death?
How good was this episode. 11/10 stuff.
@@JoshWiniberg Mavity was shown on a console screen in Space Babies
I think I remember hearing “mavity” either this ep or last, just in passing.
How did he pull off some text on a teleprompter? He once stopped an explosion through sheer willpower!
I need this channel to survive a week between episodes
You don't have to wait a whole week if you in the uk technically.
Thursday is a new tales of the TARDIS episode with the doctor and Ruby. It'll probably feature pyramid of Mars.
Re: Set's Domains
When I studied Egyptology as part of my Bachelor's Degree (long, long ago in the late 80s), Set had several domains of influence/responsibility depending on the era you look at Ancient Egypt. Later on, he became the "God of Foreigners" and, with that, became synonymous with a "God of Evil" due to Egyptian perspectives at the time regarding outsiders.
Just a fun FYI! (Yay! I got to use my old degree again! Whoot!)
May the original trinity be with you. If you studied that field, you know what I mean.
Thank you Ellie, you literally made it so much clearer 😂😂 Also did you see? In the 2nd episode, just before The Carol of the Bells played from within Ruby as a hidden song, the Trickster's theme was playing. You'll love this theory, another youtuber made a video about it putting them side to side!
(It's called Ruby and the Tricksters theme? It's all about the music by a darren2189. I sooo hope this theory is true, also because wardrobe choices)
I was going to guess that Sutekh was able to latch on to the TARDIS when it was cloned with the toymakers hammer, but the groaning in WBY puts the kibosh on that
Doctor Who: we can't bring back The Rani, no one knows who she is. Also Doctor Who: everyone remembers Toymaker and Sutekh, right?
Nah with the Rani its because right issues.
In fairness those are both two of the most famous classic era episodes
Did any one notice the ring Susan Triad was wearing when Mel shook her hand? It reminded me of the Eye of Horus
You missed one very big context clue Ellie; The groaning noise the TARDIS has been making is the exact same sound effect Sarah Jane heard when she saw Sutekh's face in the opening of that serial.
Did anyone else notice that after the Doctor mentioned that Timelords can change their face if their dying or need to hide away that Mrs Flood literally stated that "it's nice to get out, I'm always "hiding" myself away!"
Is Mrs flood a Timelord? (cough cough, the Rani) or a god? (like Insensor the god of disaster: flood, rain, storm, disaster)
Also, if every god has a Harbinger and the Harbingers are the gods child. Does that make the Maestro the Toymakers Harbinger before they matured into godlike stature?
So, is it possible for Henry Arbinger to become a god? Because that would be awesome if the Harbingers became gods. In that case, then what do you reckon the other gods' first names to be? I reckon the Toymaker's real name is Horatio Arbinger. It suits him.
Mrs Flood could also be Missy.
@SallyLovejoy Hmm, I don't know. Mrs Flood doesn't seem as erratic as the Master is. Well, she is a little, but She gives off more Rani Vibes. I don't think she's the Master.
And anyway The master was in the toymamers tooth. Which was taken by someone with red nails. I'm thinking the Master will return as the Priminister again or something. Infultrating from the inside kind of thing. We know someone in unit has the tooth. Mrs Flood wouldn't be the best option.
And even if Mrs Flood is the Master or the Rani. Why call themselves "Mrs Flood"?
The most logical option would be that Mrs Flood is Insensor because it would make sense. The Gods do love anagrams.
It hit me as I watched a recap video of Pyramids of Mars, that something else makes sense now- All through the season there were several points where the Doctor was inexplicably afraid. He noticed he was afraid of the Bogeyman and didn't understand it and we never found out why, among other times.
Sutekh was one of the rare beings that could mentally dominate the Doctor and make him feel terror. Now we know Sutekh as tied to the TARDIS all season long, it makes perfect sense.
And if Sutekh was working with the trickster, who's to say the trickster isn't tricking SUTEKH?
I like it!
Gabriel Woolf who voiced Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars in 1975 is back as Sutekh here! Thank you as always. Love the vids! 🌟
Whoever did the skeletor makeup on Susan Twist deserves amazing credit. That is proper scary looking. The make up on Harriet isn't as good because they did white on her which makes it look very Party City. But Susan looked terrifying. I can't wait for next week. I think Series 15 is going to be the search for Susan Foreman though.
You do realise that black people’s skeletons are white. Please tell me you know that, please.
I think it's a company called Millennium FX. BBC's behind-the-scenes programme Doctor Who Unleashed spoke to one of the prosthetics creators and she showed how the masks are moulded.
we will probably get a brief 15th dr meets old susan foreman scene right at the end of the last episode.
I think it also helped that it was on Susan Twist, as she’s evidently able to sell pretty much any character, including evil incarnate.
That first ‘snap’ to camera that she did was just so good and did you notice that she changed her whole body shape by adjusting her posture? Quite a talent.
I’m so sad. I really wanted her to be as lovely as she was at the beginning of this episode.
Like, unwillingly possessed & her true goodness being the key to overcoming Sutekh. That would be nice, but I’m not hopeful.
Also I haven't heard many people notice it, but in the toymaker, when Donna was typing she ask what system do they use and Mel says triad
Been a few mentions of triad including an advert for it on the side of a bus in one episode.
I wonder if there's two of them? There's two TARDIS now from splitting them at the end of the specials? Could be pretty interesting. I totally think it happened at the edge of the universe. Wild blue yonder had so many things you can set off it because there was so much mystery
I think once Sutekh has been defeated (sorry for spoilers) I think the pantheon will start to fight over the top spot for power. War of the gods perhaps? Fenric seizing and opportunity. I noticed he wasn't mentioned.
Oh yes, first thing I did after watching the episode and unleashed was watch the Pyramids of Mars episodes 😅. They’re in season 13 of classic who if that helps anyone ❤
Thank you!
I see a lot of people are watching pyramids of Mars. But it is going to feature in the new episode of tales of the Tardis with the doctor and Ruby on Thursday BBC iPlayer and BBC4.
@@DanBen07 ooh thanks I didn’t know that yet.
So when do we think the TARDIS went back to Ruby Road? The only time I can think of is when the TARDIS took off in Wild Blue Yonder but the TARDIS started groaning before that happened so Im not sure when he was actually picked up
I reckon it's possible Mrs Flood is Incensor. Floods are disasters. Storms (which she possibly summoned) are disasters.
Or the God of Secrets that is mentioned.
But also I got to thinking on a second watch of The Legend of Ruby Sunday. The Doctor literally says he's a disaster. Could he perhaps be Incensor? Incensor is supposed to be female and the child left originally was female...
Just some random thoughts that are unlikely to be the case.
@Yattien89 *FINALLY* a decent idea from the dumpster fire that was The Timeless Child arc
@@thepopeisnotawarcriminal I am not a fan of the Timeless Child thing so if it just so happened that the Time Lords instead found Incensor, who for some reason had been reverted to a child and had her memories wiped...that could perhaps fix things. Though we'd probably need another bi-regeneration to keep things going. One into Incensor, one into a normal Doctor who can continue the series.
Of course, there is the Valeyard too...so we've already got some versions of an evil Doctor. Tie that in as well perhaps?
I dunno, it was just on the second watch that I noticed him saying "my life is a disaster" or something to that effect and then a god of disaster is mentioned. Felt a bit on the nose to be a coincidence but also RTD drops red herrings a lot.
I think the name has nothing to do with the character as Russell T Davis said he simply chose Mrs flood because it was a character in a 90s comedy and he liked the name.
@@DanBen07 Could be the case of course. I like to have theories but I am not one of the people who are determined that their theory is the only right answer kind of thing.
You guys missed that in "Wild Blue Yonder", the TARDIS started groaning shortly after the Doctor and Donna stepped out of it and then it disappeared. That was the first instance where Sutekh seized upon the TARDIS. A BBC minute-long short here on CZcams and social media compile that into all previous times the TARDIS groaned.
THANKS for this, Ellie!!!!
Rogue and the Chuldur were banished to another dimension, and the Pantheon of Discord are from another dimension. It seems like the number banished and the number in the Pantheon are the same. If they are the same beings, then Sutekh, the one who waits, could be Rogue... who waited for the Doctor to find and save him. If this is the case, this could allow them to tie up all loose threads for this season pretty easily.
I just saw part 4 of Pyramids of Mars, RTD used Pyramids of Mars in Queer as Folk series. So knew it was Sutekh coming back. I wanna know the following :
1)Mrs Flood
2)Who is Ruby's mother
3)Will Susan (Dr's grandaughter) actually come back
4)Is the TARDIS now evil
My mad theory, well technically two,
First it is a trickster trap, just not for the Doctor, but for Suteck
I think he’s been held down, and has found a means to free himself by pitting him against the doctor.
The Other aspect, I’ve begun to theorise rubys mother is Kate Lethbridge-Stewart
Visual Similarities between the actresses and certain style choices, Kate and The Doctor talking about Susan and the age between the two being fitting.
Just a theory and it’s very loose
And then the actual real Susan turns up and says...
"Hay Grandad, trouble with the Pantheon of Discord, well, I found the Pantheon of Harmony"
Certainly the first time an episode made me go googling for the wiki information, lol!
Felt it coulda done with some old-Who flashbacks when Harbinger was going on about the old gods.
But that was still one heck of an introduction! I'm here for it, seems fun.
Though I'm not really into this whole fighting gods thing as a plotline personally, especially when it warps reality to the point where anything goes and what rules there were no longer exist for Who (I prefer it when everything has an explanation or is an alien of some kind), but this was still quite enjoyable and tension building!
Hoping it sticks the landing and is a good finale!
You actually did clear something up for me, corrected me even. I haven't actually watched Pyramids of Mars in a few years, so I apparently misremembered something.
Repeatedly.
On Twitter.
It's fine.
I would love to see the return of The Toymaker and Maestro. Both such great and menacing characters played by people I love
Hang on. If Sutekh was attached to the TARDIS in Wild Blue Yonder, what happened when the TARDIS became duplicated in The Giggle. Has Sutekh been duplicated too?
it was to me the best episode yet, reminded me of old Doctor Who which is a big win to me, really hope the tone stays, excellent build up, underlining mystery to a bigger plot. fantastic.
I'm going to guess that Sutekh is going to be bound to the Tardis.
Also I'm guessing Ruby's Mother was talking to Sutekh in the recording telling him that he'll never win!
It does sound plausible Sutekh was in the void during “wide blue yonder” as they were on the edge of the universe and would have been close to the void… I would also theorise when 14 used the salt, that’s when The Toymaker may have seen Sutekh surrounding the Tardis and ran.
I’m also curious on how long Sutekh was in the void as he’s known now as “the one who waits”, I would imagine it was a while and would be excited to see other villains showing up in future episodes that may have followed Sutekh from the void.
There may not be time in the void: it might have felt like forever.
All this discussion about Sutekh and the Tardis didn't mention one key element: there are *two* Tardises. I'd be rather disappointed if 14's Tardis isn't referenced in some way in "Empire of Death"
Hey Ellie. Adored this ep. Remember the coffee spill... oh and please can you gove credits to the comic creators for any you mention
While sutehk is part of the pantheon, i dont think he is the god of gods. I think thats just him saying that for flair (and that is what he believes)
The OG megalomaniac.
Ruby’s origin will be show in another future episode in similar fashion to Clara’s origin. My theory is in a future episode she’ll wound up stuck in that timeline, meet her mum without any idea and later on it’s Ruby herself who will be dropping that baby in the church.
GOD i can't wait for next week
GOD we agree!
@@WhoCulture 100% agree
As I used to tell my daughter,
“I think you’ll find you can.”
I was a MEAN mummy.
And we’re almost halfway there.
All Hail Apophis! Oops sorry wrong God. 😅
Where is the 14th Doctor whilst all this is happening? Also, if Sutekh latched onto the Tardis in Wild Blue Yonder, wouldn’t it have been the 14th Doctor’s Tardis before it was split in two?
all i know is he was way creepier with the weird horse face back in the 70s than he is now
@kamikazilucas agreed. I’m happy that he’s back, but they’re overdoing it with the redesign
He’s always suppose to look like a jackal from Egyptian mythology.
@coreybell2223 I think that the original mask did that well
I'm afraid Sutekh looked like a Halloween costume to me. So did the weird "slug" creatures from Dot and Bubble.
@@coreybell2223 Is he? I thought that no one knew what he was meant to look like.
i wonder if maybe Sutekh latched on when they ended up in the parallel world where ickeys grandma was still alive since they had to actually go THROUGH the void to get there....
I wish they would have just used a live actor for Sutekh, to match the other over the top gods so far.
I like that they brought back the original voice actor. And maybe he'll get a real body with the mask in the finale.
I love that they still used the same original actor who played Sutekh decades ago personally. A 91 year old man might not make for as much of a credible threat on screen though?
Thank you for explaining all of this. I'm strictly New Who, Eccleston onwards.
They're pretty much fighting the Whoniverse's equivalent of Thanos. Got it. 👍
I want the Trickster to return so badly
I'm among those who immediately knew who Sutekh was when he got name dropped as well as the full understanding of how "we are so screwed" the situation is.
And, funnily enough, I probably wouldn't have been if not for getting a used VHS copy over 2 decades ago from my, at the time, local library because they were selling their copy.
Still trying to get a DVD copy and want it now movie than ever
With this episode the space behind sofas became a meme again. 🤣🤣🤣
Trapped in the void with fingers in front of eyes.
Didn't the doctor go outside the universe in the flux when they met tecteun or maybe (sutecteun lol ) or maybe it was the fact the flux wipped out half of the universe sucking things in from the void to fill the space left.
"There's always a TWIST at the end"
There's always a Twist at the end of the universe 😁
Side note. Both Pyramids of Mars and Image of the Fendahl featured exterior scenes filmed at Stargroves estate in Hampshire, MickJagger's then home.
I had a random thought. You can't spell Flood without Ood. Could Mrs. Flood have some connection to the Ood hivemind? Or be an Ood in disguise? Her unwillingness to serve tea to Ruby's grandmother made me wonder since that refusal to serve could maybe signify an outcast Ood of some kind?
Russell T Davies said he liked the name Mrs flood from a 90s BBC comedy and that's why he used it. So it has nothing to do with the character.
@@DanBen07 Maybe, but he also said no callbacks to classic villains so we'll have to wait and see.
I am really curious as to when Sutekh actually latched onto the TARDIS. If we make the assumption that the arrival of Sutekh on the TARDIS and the appearances of Susan Twist coincide, then Sutekh needs to be around from the beginning of Wild Blue Yonder as we see Mrs Meridue (aka Susan Twist) at the start of the episode, not when they land on the spaceship at the edge of the universe and we hear the first TARDIS groan. Also the Meep referred to his "Boss" being interested in two hearted species. Could the Boss and Sutekh be one and the same? Everything went awry (e.g. TARDIS flying out of control) at the end of The Star Beast, leading into Wild Blue Yonder. And the same happened in classic Who when the Doctor first meets Sutekh. Coincidence? Unlikely!!!
Mr. H. Is right
Since Sutekh took the form of a large dog-like thing, I wouldn't be surprised if he ate someone. If anything, it'd be slightly diasappointing for me to NOT see that.
Yes, I watched Pyramids of Mars, right after!! How many others did, too?
Where can you watch this?
@@Boxxie9791 britbox
Tubi
BBC iPlayer
I didn't. I already watched it last year.
If the trickster created a child in a sarah jane story it really is not too far fetched that RTD would bring that back for ruby
Imagine who The Mara's harbinger is? 🤔
Martin clunes 😂
This is all very confusing for me 😅
Since the Tardis first made that Groaning noise in "Wild Blue Yonder" then it's very possible Sutekh latched on in the time the Tardis was away during that episode and has been there since then...
This is likely the case... Except..
The Tardis that made that first groan was the 14th Doctor's.
Ncuti split the Tardis in "The Giggle". The one he is travelling in is the one he spawned from 14's Tardis, so I'm wondering why Sutekh is latched on to 15's
Their technicallythe same Tardis but the one from Wild Blue Yonder is with the 14th. Yet Sutekh appears to wrapped around 15's..
Unless it's the 14's Tardis 😅 my brain 😅
Did Sutekh latch on to 14's and make the jump to 15's when he doubled them?
Is Sutekh latched in to both?
Did Sutekh latch on to 14's but manifested around 15's.. begging the question why he isn't going after 14?
A lot of questions haha.
I must say I'm a little distracted by Ellie this episode. You are always gorgeous but this episode I have absolutely no words to describe how beautiful you are.
Also just watched Pyramids of Mars. Couple things... Susan Triad is a servant just like the one Scarman brother, but that doesn't explain her many other roles in the series. Sutekh tries to recruit the Doctor because he's a Time Lord, presumably to use the TARDIS to get to Mars, but he may have been trying to control it all season for some other evil plot. Sarah Jane and the Doctor have a very different relationship than any in the modern show. Very snippy. The plot seemed at times to be made up on the spot. There's visible duct tape on one of the props!
With all the junk the Doctor keeps chucking into "the void", it's surely not so voidey any more.
Now I'm imagining Sutekh in the void getting hit on the head with all the stuff the Doctor throws into the void xD
2:25 I thought the time corridor was supposedly infinite
My best guess (maybe too obvious):
- Ruby's mother is one version (maybe regenerated) of River Song
- Mrs. Flood is the "last" regeneration of River - like the Curator for the Doctor.
- but I think ANYWHERE needs Granddaughter Susan to be put into?! There was too much nods to her...
This might be wrong totally, though.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who thought “Scooby Doo” (Scooby Who?) when Sutekh materialised. Yes, the CGI wasn’t as offensive as other episodes (Yes, The Lazarus Project) and the Disney Dollers no doubt add an extra Sheen to all the interplanetary shenanigans but I still thought it looked kinda naff, like a mutated Egyptian donkey with a secondhand mindstone lodged in its head!
The bigger question is how he became so powerful. The Osirans were godlike but they weren't really described as being on the level of the Toymaker.
Obviously the Toy Maker was not mentioned in Pyramids but the 4th Doctor literally claimed Sutekh was all powerful. That if he got free no one could stop him.
To me it seems more that Sutekh is more powerful because his aims are more nefarious than the Toymaker’s. And the criterion for defeating him are less explicit.
Sutekh was the most powerful Osiran. He went on a rampage to destroy all life in the Universe and his entire race had to join forces to contain him.
Always thought that was a goof by the writer who didn't know about the Toymaker or Kronus.
Sort of liked it, watched it as a fan since 1963, seen most episodes back in the day and still didn’t have a clue who the bad guy was. Never mind new Disney viewers who were equally unaware of the backstory. Was this a good idea, like Space Babies as the opening episode?
I think Susan foreman is the mother of ruby and/or the saviour of next weeks episode.
I think she is the master. Or another god.
She would have to have changed human time travelled back one hundred and 26 years
@@doctor_sixty the master? the master has nothing to do with this story
I said the same thing on Twitter, that the constant mention of traps clearly implied The Trickster devised the trap, Sutekh merely executed it.
The Doctor flat out murdered the guard due to his incompetence. This Doctor has gone from "never cruel. Never cowardly"... to being both.
another explanation i came up with for sutekh latching onto the tards was the incident when we first went to petes world when the tardfis fell through the void he couldve latched on there and waited for his plans he started to come to fruition