The Bike Industry Crisis: What Does It Mean For Us? | GCN Show Ep. 564
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- The bike industry has hit a breaking point, with big brands, including Wiggle CRC and Islabikes having to cease production. Could this be the start of the bike-pocalypse and what could it mean for cyclists? Si and Dan discuss the pros, cons and future of bike brands and the cycling industry. In cycling shorts, pro cyclists take up rickshaw racing for off-season training and there’s a new Mous phone case giveaway!
Win 1 of 25 Mous IntraLock® phone cases and bike mounts! 👉 gcn.eu/GCNMousCompetition
00:00 Intro
01:38 Bike brand apocalypse
02:41 Shift active media interview
09:12 Debating cycling future
11:51 Cycling Shorts
18:17 Mous case competition
19:49 Hack / Bodge Of The Week
24:55 Caption Competition
28:09 Comments of the week
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What are your thoughts on the bike brand crisis? 💥
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What are your thoughts on the bike brand crisis? 💥
Couldn't care less. They shouldn't overprice everything to the degree they do.
I have my own problems to think about, no time and/or energy to devote to those of the cycling industry.
While it's sad to see beloved brands like all-city go, I feel like small builders are thriving in this environment. If you look at some of the stuff coming out of the trade shows like Bespoked or MADE the future of cycling is exciting.
Without seeing the sales figures I'm thinking there are many thousands of what would have previously been bike buyers actually now buying electric scooters. Or simply hiring electric scooters or bikes in cities where those schemes exist. You also now have large numbers of people working form home and who needs a bike to commute to the end of the landing?
My thoughts are is I hope prices drop cause they total rip.off at moment
Someone needs to tell the industry that 15 000 euros for a bicycle is WAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH!
It’s not in their eyes tho. Simply because idiots keep buying them.
If they keep increasing prices, it means somebody is buying these at any price(most probably US customers - countries with more disposable income). If they can make the same amount of bikes and sell them at any price, they will increase that price until demand lowers.
@@aliancemd I just watched a girl in the Philippines buy a $13k US dollar bike. And it’s literally happening daily around the world.
I sold bikes that price nearly 15yrs ago. Nobody had to buy them then and nobody has to buy them now. You also get a lot more for you money now. A WIRED SRM used to cost $5k. Now you can get a complete bike with a power meter for $6k
@@aliancemdonly a fraction of the bikes they sell cost this much.
Decent bikes from Specialized, Trek etc are in the same price bracket as motor bikes and small average cars. They deserve to feel the pinch.
Decent bikes start at under a grand. Even from trek and specialised they offer 1000-2000 bikes. Anyone paying 4, 5 or even 6 grand for a bike who isn’t competing at a national level minimum is an idiot.
If they keep increasing the prices, it means they don’t really “feel the pinch”, it’s a sign demand is high at any price they put.
All the bikes with same parameters from every brand cost pretty much the same... No one is offering "real deal" But yes Trak and Specialized are ridiculous with their not discounted prices...After the discounts it is more in line with everybody else i.e. canyons ribbles and polygons of the world...
@@theonemanopinion2764with the same logic, everybody who is buying audi or Volkswagen over Skoda/Seat is an idiot. Porsche guys must be dam right moronic and whoever is buying Lamborghini/Ferrari must be near brain dead... Even though Lambo buyer might as well be 😅... People do enjoy nice things and if you have money for it then why not? Without premium products, lower end staff would not get any better.
@@theonemanopinion2764 Well said.
Ive been a bicycle mechanic for over 30 years. In the USA. Ive seen stuff like this happen before. After the mtb boom of the 90s, when 9/11 happened. There was a big lul in the market. Lots of companies just faded away. The strong ones survived. The market did bounce back. And it will get past this to.I do believe that the focus on high end bikes hurts the industry more than it helps. I feel there should be more promotion on bikes that bring in new riders,and that the actual hard working people can afford. Basic things like this will help to bring it back.
Keeping them on those bikes seems to be the thing that gets missed, but that's more of a cultural issue outside of cycling.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We've got no doubt that cycling will bounce back but we're hoping we don't see lots more brands falling along the way.
@@gcn The way i see it is. It will always be the smaller brands, Niche type that go first.Youve got guys there who were around in the 90s. Alot of those failing brands got picked up by bigger companies. Trek sucked up a few brands, Integrated them into there lineup. Sram also was big with that. If some of these brands can consolidate and or Merge. That would be nice to see. Rather then them just folding. Thank you for replying to me.
Throwing ANY R&D at aluminum bikes shows they're still interested in the lower end of the market. But this was the first bike boom that led to actual pay increases for shop employees and manufacturing laborers. Prices will go up with that which is totally fair. The reality is that prices were really lower than they should have been for far too long and the prices should have been trickling up, along with pay the entire time.
I kind of agree, The lack of a sub-$1k decent no-frills road/cross/gravel bike ends up pushing a lot of people away. Looking at one of the few local chains that lists bike prices online here, the cheapest road bike they list is 1500CAD. and probably the best deal is a 1600(marked down from 2100) mostly-tiagra with some down-costed cranks and brakes. There's some hybrids around 750, but with 3x7 drivetrains with really cheap looking cranksets (probably riveted, integrated "bash-guard") for a bit over 800 you can get Tourney 8 speed (probably the cheapest I'd suggest to a friend)
Unfortunately that pushes a lot of people to buy a department store bike, thinking that it'll be "good enough, I'm not racing or anything." and hopefully they'll have a masochistic bike-savvy friend to adjust everything to be sort of okay for a month or two, until the wheels start breaking spokes and falling apart, and they decide that "bikes are too much hassle/expense"
Bikes are way too expensive. Simple
True very expensive
Blame all the investment hedge fund wankers who buy all these brands.
Totally agree
More than less consumer products in addition wholesale prices, raw material costs etc. are all too expensive.
Money devaluation, stag inflation etc.
@@jjcatsura😂😂😂😂😂 Underrated comment
I love cycling and I love my bikes but speaking locally, the bike shops in my area absolutely stunk of arrogance when I was shopping during the pandemic. These runaway price increases and blatant opportunism have officially come to an end. It’s hard to feel very sympathetic
I do feel for the workers, as the mentioned in that segment, but you are absolutely right. The bike companies and local shops gouged their customers - not a good long term strategy. The arrogance and contempt is nothing new though.
I think someone should tell brands like Specialized, Trek, and others like them, because their prices only seem to be going up.
Exactly!!! A road frame should not cost 5500$. That’s ridiculous. Don’t tell me any BS about aero or weight.
@@alexgonzalezMII don’t know- I’ve just experienced the difference between a 1,500$ aluminum hybrid and a 3000 carbon road bike and if it’s relative to a 5,000$ bike it’s worth it. No way I’d ride 3000 miles in a year. 1$/mile for best mental and physical health in years.
They aren't the only names in the business. What is going to change the market is the Chinese brands. Also, all these companies are now looking at the possibility of a major lawsuit arising out of the changes they are making as of late.
@jamesmckenzie3532 please, give us your source and hopefully that will answer why also.
@@winstonsmith8236 Glad you've found something that's worked for you! You're right, the mid-to-top tier is where prices are going up and not down.
Nice to see more people talking about how expensive bikes have become
There are riders in my club with £5k+ bikes. I steal the show on a 1976 Peugeot PY10.
@@jameslee-pevenhull5087 but do you lead the peloton?
The kinds of bikes we're talking about are current racing bikes. If you want a basic commuter, you can still get them at Walmart. If you want vintage glory, their prices are holding steady too, not really rising or falling much.
I personally do the restomod thing, but I watch this show to keep abreast of current tech. I have no need for something carbon that would allow me to compete when my goal is peace of mind and exercise, sounds like you don't either.
Bikes didn't used to have electronic gears, carbon frames, deep wheels, internal lines, etc. That all has to cost. The simple solution is to go back to rim braked steel bikes with 9-speed grouppos. Do YOU want to go back? If not, you have to pay up to keep up.
Forced obsolescence and ridiculous pricing...I've never seen an industry so out of touch with the consumer. But there's opportunity for those companies that break ranks and meet the customers wants and needs.
My carbon road bike is 12 years old, still no forced obsolescence there. Not with any new bikes either.
@@TheSteinbitt What happens when you break the rear derrailleur?
@@ridley8340 Get a new one.
@@ridley8340 eBay
@@ridley8340 You buy a new one?
What's causing the bike industry crisis? It's very, very simple. These days you have a choice: Feed your family or spend $6,000 on a bike. I for one am glad to see this industry take a hit. For far too long they've just been increasing the prices on everything bike related and lining their pockets. Overpriced carbon everything, overpriced kit, it's just enough already. Where are the quality $1,500 bikes with the 105 mechanical group set that will last you years with proper maintenance? Oh, sorry, we're forcing you to buy disc brakes now for another $1,000 even though rim brakes were perfectly fine for 100 years. What's that? You don't want electronic shifting? Too bad, we don't make simple bikes anymore.
That's what's happened to the bike industry, and until they realize that, they can all file for chapter 11 as far as I'm concerned. The Chinese have it figured out, and they'll be more than happy to supply us with quality bikes for a much more affordable price. Been doing it for years and they just keep getting better.
Yeah, I have an LTWOO groupset on one of my bikes- ran me less than $300, great quality, and all mechanical (though they do have electronic and hydraulic stuff too for those folks, also at very good prices). At the rate that they're rolling out very good tech on a budget, they're gonna eat Shimano's lunch sooner or later.
My one complaint is that they used the 29mm SRAM DUB standard for the bottom bracket, which has a lot fewer parts options. C'mon, is 26mm that bad?
@@cptjeff1 When I build my next bike it'll be totally Chinese. I've been watching channels like China Cycling, Trace Velo and several others who review the latest Chinese bike stuff and thanks to their reviews, I'll be able to buy with a great degree of confidence. I've been buying all my kit from Aliexpress for years, bib shorts and jersey combos for $25-$30, saddle bags, bottle cages, and I bought a set of 38mm Super Team carbon wheels for less than $300 on sale from Amazon about 5 years ago and they're amazing. Still true, still look great and they've got thousands of miles on them.
Polygon Path x5.
@@cptjeff126? Do you mean 24?
Nailed it. Just forgot to mention the products are also built like crap as well.
Islabikes made beautiful kids bikes and their instructions on teaching your child to ride a bike are excellent. Prior to setting up Islabikes, Isla Rowntree was quite a multi-disciplinary cycling champion. How about a GCN episode about her life in cycling?
I work at pedal power, a cycling charity in Cardiff and pretty much our whole children’s bike fleet are Islas. It’s really going to effect finding replacements. GCN should come down and do a video on all the specially adapted bikes we have, it’s an amazing place. It’s all about inclusive riding and we have some amazing bikes to make sure everyone can ride. Plus there’s a Cafe that does great cakes and coffee 😜
You had us at cake... Sounds like you're doing great work and the industry needs organisations like this even more in these hard times. It's great to hear you're getting more people on bikes (a message we both share). Keep up the good work!
I find it interesting that the COST of a new bike wasn't factored in the conversation. Outside forces, the pandemic, a war, cost of living etc were discussed but the actual cost of a bike wasn't. I mean a decent road bike sells north of $10K?? I can purchase a used (and in some cases new) Ducati for that much. How is this cost pressure not even mentioned? Just my 2 cents. :-)
This is what gets me as a motorcyclist who has joined the world of cycling. A motorcycle has far more technology and precision machining involved than a bicycle does, and has many more materials involved. I just googled it and in the US last year, there were 550,000 motorcycles sold, but 17.5 MILLION bicycles sold. So bicycles have an economy of scale factor in their favor which should make it cheaper. I think bike companies are just price gouging the market.
Exactly. Just compare the price of a winspace frame against the frame price of western brands, they ask 4 grands just for the frame - and all from the same factories. It's robbery basically.
The bike companies know they can get people to pay those prices, and not enough small companies are there to under price them. Give it time, and I would hope prices will come down. The really expensive bikes are hand made in small numbers, and that also has something to do with it. Once you buy a high end bike it depreciates like mad too.
Part of this is marketing convincing people that they "need" carbon, the latest aero, electronic shifting, lightest possible components, etc. to have a "decent" road bike. While $3K for a Specialized Allez Sprint Comp can still be considered a bit pricey, for the majority of riders it would still be a "decent" road bike.
A very small fraction of cyclists can actually benefit from a $10k+ bike. There are plenty of quality bikes at the entry level.
Mechanical 105 ftw
It's needed. The prices are insane.
We welcome the price drop but never nice to see companies go under
Great comments about the cycling industry. One point I'd like to make is that the industry keeps f#$king itself by changing standards and diverging. Nothing is standard. It's impossible for any shop to keep in stock the necessities as nothing fits everything anymore.
Changing standards can be hard to keep up with, would you like to see the industry slow down for a bit and create long lasting options?
@gcn As someone trying to get into the sport: it's impossible for me to make a decision because there's so many moving parts to this that I can't get a feeling of whether something is worth the price or not.
Back when I was racing in the 80s/90s, a decent top bike was about $2500/3000 and it wasn't uncommon for a serious rider to have a couple of top line bikes. Now... VERY difficult. If bike companies go under they only have themselves and their greed to blame.
For US currency a $2500 bike in 1985 is equivalent to a $7,150 bike today adjusted for inflation. Which is about a high end carbon bike with an electronic Ultegra group set.
Can you do that again using an inflation calculator? back when I used to drink many pints of beer in the 1980s, it was 58p for a pint of beer 😂😂
@@tubecated_development I just googled USD inflation calculator. Can probably find one for whatever currency you use.
@@Pastamisticwages didn't followed inflation. So the comment still stands
When good bikes cost as much as motorcycles- something has gone very, very wrong
@@alamogiftshop Wow ok kool-aid boi, I love how you justified bicycle prices like that :)
@@alamogiftshop bruh, yes, if you wanted to shop for it there were always expensive bikes with price tags that you could buy a decent motorbike with. The point is there is no decent carbon bike anymore with ultegra mechanical for $2k, like there was pre COVID era. Now the mechanical 105 bike costs $3k, did the equivalent motorbike raise its price 2-3x in the same period of time? Hell no. Conclusion; bike prices are absurdly inflated because of Covid boom and corporate greed. You can’t the absurdity it by simply saying ‘bikes cost as much as motorcycles for a long time’
If people think you have to pay those prices for a good bike, they know absolutely nothing about bikes. A pro rider 30 years ago with his 7 or 8 speed cassette and his steel framed bike would have absolutely smoked 99% of the people who believe the only good bike is a cf bike
Good bikes cost between $1000 - $2000. As they are lot more capable than 90% of the riders .
What most customers/riders actually think constitutes a 'good' bike is something completely different.
City bike Riese & Muller Nevo4 GT costs 5300 euro. City scooter Yamaha nmax 125 costs 3800 euro. So we don't need even to compare high end products.
For those of us who don’t buy a new bike every fortnight , it doesn’t really mean that much.
I've never bought a new bike, just way too many great lightly used bikes out there and delightful vintage steel frames to build up exactly how you want 'em.
But then, I don't have dentist income. But if I get the job I'm trying to get right now, custom titanium is on the wish list.
Exactly! Tires and drivetrain parts. All ya' really need to keep things going.
That's true, Although it's always a shame to loose brands. You may also find customer service harder if your bike brand goes under 😬 Will you be waiting for the rise to go up again before buying a new bike?
@cptjeff1 I've had 2 custom ti bikes. Outside of a touring bike, pure nostalgia or very special fitting requirements, it's a huge waste of money in 2023. That wasn't true +15yrs ago but it is now. My Seven is on lifetime trainer duty. I put over 200k miles on that bike but my new Domane is better than that Seven in every way and cost 40% as much and that's without factoring in inflation. There isn't a single modern carbon bike over $4k that I wouldn't take over a custom titanium bike if I didn't have very special needs with geometry or oddball mounts
@@gcn *lose* brands...
Forcing discs and electric shifting on everyone killed any empathy I have for the industry.
You certainly don't need these things to enjoy cycling. Has the industry forced Electric gears on people? There are still so many great mechanical groupsets out there!
@@gcn Discontinuing the Dura Ace and Ultegra line of mechanical tells me they aren't interested in producing Swiss watch precision mechanical, just pumping out, cheap to manufacture, electric.
@@Livlifetaistdethbut ultegra and durace aren't meant for the average Joe. They are for like the top 5% of the cyclists. If we are talking about the average Joe which is 95% of the rest of us. 105 and below still have mechanical. So I don't think it's exactly fair to say they are being "forced" on us. The only way for it to be forced on the general consumers, is if they were to remove those options completely and leaving us with nothing but disc and Di2
Egg zactly
@@gcn majority of decent bikes now have disc brakes, most bikes in a shop or online too...when at least half, maybe majority of cyclists in the world want rim brakes.
I think that the industry has taken advantage of the consumer for far too long and is now paying the price. This analagy has been made before but a bike costing more than a motorcycle is absolutely ridiculous and the premise that it requires a lot of R & D in my view is very weak. A bike should not cost more than a motorbike or car full stop. This will, in my view, move people away from the humble bicycle which is a shame and will lead to the downfall of the companies that take advantage of their customers
Bicycles do not cost more than motorcycles. There are a few super bikes that do but decent bikes are available at a reasonable price.
In real money I think bikes are cheaper than they were 50 years ago.
@@joearnold3594DID U NOT READ ALL OF THE COMMENTS YOUR WRONG MOST BIKES COST MORE THAN £5k or even £10k
I feel like there were plenty of people in the industry sounding the alarm during the pandemic warning companies to temper growth during the boom cycle because of the inevitable rebound. I'm only surprised that the boom lasted this long, not that it happened. We'll see which companies prepared properly in the next months and years. On the other hand. The industries greediness and shortsightedness have forced people into buying second/third-hand bikes and equipment. Retro bikes and home-wrenching are back out of necessity for alot of us. I don't see the need to buy a new bike any time soon.
Really? Can you give me a list of these “plenty of people in the industry”?
I’m looking for a decent mid spec bike. After looking at the prices, ended up looking for a cafe racer motorcycle. Bike prices are just insane.
Whats wrong with Ribble R872 ?Carbon Fibre Frame
Shimano 105 Mechanical 2x12 Speed
Mavic Aksium 19 DCL Wheels
1999.00
And it's hard to believe that you are indeed a lot safer on that motorcycle. Traveling along side traffic at 10 to 20 miles per hour in the states has become more of a test of how much you want to put yourself in danger. On a motorcycle, traveling at the same speed as cars with proper lighting and directional markers puts a person at a more even playing field with cars. Plus the fact that you can actually get somewhere on the open road on two wheels. Ride a couple of hours, travel 100 miles, walk in a restaurant with real clothes on, enjoy a relaxing dinner, ride a couple hours more to get home and not feel like you are totally wiped out. Push bikes are mostly toys.
@@paul5683bicycles are only ‘toys’ in the minds of those who exist in places that are obsessed with and ruled by cars/trucks etc for every journey (and no matter how short that journey). And that is because 1. there is no infrastructure for cycling and 2. There is no culture of cycling. Ask (say) Netherlanders if bicycles are ‘mostly toys’? Bicycles for them are simply a way to get around and to carry cargo. Just as a fork is a way to pierce and eat food. Neither a fork nor a bicycle is a ‘toy’. They are both (very efficient) tools. And the type of bicycles they ride are suitable for any clothing. Their culture, health and infrastructure is improved by the bicycle.
@@paul5683
That's the voice of the US speaking. Land of the car and fat guts.
May I recommend a Laverda Jota 1000 (180 series). Best sounding stock cafe racer ever produced. Exotic beyond belief.
Fun fact, the landed cost of a SL5 S-works Tarmac fuselage for Specialized was $125 to California. Wrap your head around that, it costs them $125 for a fuselage that they sold for $4000? There is room to make less and stay in business for the bigger brands.
Source? $125 seems way too low.
I call B.S. Please provide corresponding data.
It's hard to believe that the bike industry made us believe that a mass produced carbon fram, a drive train and some levers could cost as much as a brand new motorcycle or even a car...
Cycling and all the decent accessories and components have become way to expensive for a lot of people since covid. 💰💸
Remember the cycles to work schemes and also social enterprises renting/fixing bikes for all. ❤✌🏼🙏🏼
@@curlysue3620 absolutely. Even a lot of Cycle schemes only cover up to £1k these days including accessories! You can't buy much of a good bike that will last for that cash anymore.
Manufactures are massively profiteering and taking advantage and as long as they keep selling the more they will continue.
Not on ebay
The prices have risen, do you think that this is a cycling issue or are prices rising across the board?
@@gcn I would put it this way: It matters how much quality you get. It's ridiculous that each year the cost of SRAM group maintenance (chainring, cassette - 2x replacement, chain - 4 times) costs me pretty much the same as my 10yo Lexus maintenance (oil, filters).
Classic GCN presenter lineup ❤ (would love to get a random Matt Stephens drop in! )
We like kicking it old school with these two for 😉
Prices are absurd. New tyres for my bicycle are now more expensive than new tyres for my car. The bike industry has been ripping us all off since the pandemic and now they are receiving their just reward.
Make it affordable: frames, looks, & components. And inform people of places to ride for: health, sight seeing, and racing. It’s not all about racing but affordability for the masses to make it viable for everybody.
Great point! Cycling and racing are not the same thing. Do you think there is a lack of entry level bikes on the market?
Corporate greed and "innovation" that makes everything more expensive, less owner serviceable and less durable. The price/value proposition has gone horribly wrong. Blaming Brexit/Ukraine/Interest rates is a smokescreen for excessive greed, not just in cycling.
You can buy FOUR brand new Japanese motorbikes for less than a top spec Trek Madone and a pair of the latest GP5000 tyres cost more than two tyres for a Nissan Qashqai. The bike industry have been taking the piss for years. They’ve been aided and abetted in this by GCN. But you knew this, right.
Absolutely spot on...😎
You don’t have to buy a Medone to get into cycling. Also top end bikes have always been the price of a motorcycle well before GCN was around.
@@tomnewham1269Don’t think that’s really true, the inflation in bike prices in the last few years has well outstripped that of motorbikes.
Yamaha R6 is 15000€.
Yep and not one of those consumer level "Japanese motorbikes" would stand a cat in hells chance of making it around the first corner in a MOTO GP race. You want the road bike equivalent of that: Decathlon + £300. Cheap bikes that could take you around the world are available if you want them.
The first “proper” bike I bought was a Bianchi MTB with XT and SLX, mid range forks… I splurged. It cost me 70hours of work in my casual job whilst at university…. An equivalent bike would now cost me over 300 hours of work in a similar job.
My bunch ride has shrunk. Many are working more hours to make ends meet and take up virtual cycling. Much safer and less hassle
I find it crazy that 15 years ago 105 group is US$600 and now it is US$2500!!!
One way to have nice bikes with cost control is to stick to rim brakes. My local bike shop is clearing off Chorus 12 speed rim brake mechanical groupset at below US$800.
Rim brakes are trash though. Unless you don't consider rim failure to be concerning.
@@user-od1dt3sd8hoh come off it! Rim brakes have been used for decades without issues.
Yea but you can still get a 600 dollar group set that is better than 105 was then. 105 is just different than it used to be. Bikes aren’t too expensive, the bikes you are convinced you need are. Just buy tiagra if that’s your budget it is now better than when 105 was 600
@@user-od1dt3sd8hGood enough to win the Tour de France is good enough for me.
Old, redundant tech is always cheap
I hope the bicycle industry sees the opportunity in normal bikes for regular people. Not bikes for sport or fitness but bikes for commuting and recreation.
Many OEM manufacturers in Asia is doing that segment.
Its bonkers a budget road bike starts 1200 GBP. Budget means half decent here. I ended up getting Decathlon RC100 which works brilliantly for my needs. Loved it. But prices are silly i must say for other brands- hope they go into administration and that way costs can come down.
Nice work Si, but I’m a 5’4” female and I can do twice as many pull ups as you, so I think you’ve got room for improvement still 😁
Oh he certainly does! We think it's about time Dan teaches Si a think or two 👀
Thanks for the shoutout on Hack or Bodge! I travel with grease and carbon paste when I travel with my bike because I have to take the bike apart (fork, seatpost, and derailleur) in order to fit in my Bike Ninja bag.
Sounds like you are well prepared! 👏 Some of our presenters could learn a trick or two here 👀
No comments or mentions about the national hill climb champs and the GCN hero that is Mr Feather ? Immense performance from him
Very true! Epic ride from Feather, did you catch our hill climb champs tech run down? 👉czcams.com/video/S39O4AI32uI/video.html
Bike prices have risen to extortionately high prices year on year. The componentry is lower and the prices are higher. Manufacturers, specifically Specialized and Trek have increased their prices each year and I was wondering how long this could continue for before riders could no longer afford or are willing to continue. They couldn't care less about riders , its all about the $ and its all coming to fruition now. Cycling is an elitist sport and is far from inclusive.
Pricey have been getting very high and we'll always welcome a lower entry point to this sport. That said, it's always sad to see companies go under and industry workers loose jobs. Do you think the lower prices are here to stay?
What lower prices? Trek and others havent reduced their prices. They are getting payback for excessive price rises. Good riddance.
Good, not everything needs to be “inclusive”. What a stupid woke term. Cycling by it’s never nature will never be for everyone and there’s nothing wrong with that.
It would be fun to see the different bike brands' cost split by department - how much is being spent on R&D and manufacturing vs. marketing, PR and hot air fluff
Interesting, where do yo think the slplit would sit? 🤔
Nothing/ Zero = profit!
Cycling is becoming an elite sport
Bikes and accessories are unaffordable to persons on a regular wage
No, they simply don't know enough about bikes. For most cyclists, cycling is not a SPORT, at least not one in which they compete against others.
How many car drivers consider that driving a car is a sport?
My 2016 trek is working fine and it should for many years to come. If they want me to buy another bike they need to get real with the prices.
What would you like to see the prices come down to?
Cost. Its cost. Nothing else. Bikes aren't worth what they're asking for them. We are having a cost of living crisis people aren't going to drop 2-10k on a bike when there old one is perfectly ok.
Si's interviewer face and posture is legendary!
Sad news about Isla bikes, I felt they did a great thing and have served my kids well and have been passed on to others. I guess other cheaper brands contended on to what they were doing and maybe Isla was not able to maintain a competitive edge. Wish all their team the very best, and thank them for bringing me joy over the years.
bring back the good old days of bicycle manufacturing, none of this crap made to last 12 months and becoming obsolete in no time, I want to see the traditional hand made, quality bicycles return...
They haven't gone anywhere but hand built bikes will always cost more to produce, One brand that still does this on a mass scale would be Brompton. Have you got a bike that you've held onto for a long time?
Correct the most insane thing is for example you spend over 5 or 6 thousand for a carbon Mountain bike with electronic shifting disc brakes and after a season two of good riding the brakes and shifting mechanism need major repair or replacement. TOTAL SCAM
What new bikes only last 12 months?
Spot on! @@ggoozzii
Being from Colorado and having lived most of my life near and gone to college in Boulder, I look forward to your video about that city. I can't afford to live there and it has bad things about it too, but it's my favorite city. I moved away from Colorado about a year ago, and I miss my regular visits to Boulder and the surrounding area more than anything else about the state. It will be nice to see it again.
Well done Andrew Feather!
On bike manufacturers, it is always sad when a company struggles, but it looks like there enough resilient companies left. Hopefully they will focus on lowering prices.
For retailers like Wiggle, they always seemed to provide good service so I hope they survive, but that really does come down to debt/leverage and stock management/distribution. They are not usually responsible for the high prices and typical don’t make high margin (that is their problem!).
Greed, greed and greed…tyres more expensive than car tyres, bikes priced obscenely, similarly kit and components…
Your local bike shop needs your business more than ever! Don't complain in 12 months' time if when you need that little job done, you can't find anyone left open to do it
If you have a rim brake bike you dont really need a LBS to take care of your bike at all. Maybe with discs you dont need them either. With a few tools and some spare time you could do everything your bike needs, and for spares you have the interwebs.... at least for me, LBS are not 100% essential. The bike industry need this boom to open their eyes and see that is a nonsense that bikes cost as much or more than a car or a motorbike that have a lot more investigation research and manufacture costs than a carbon moulded bike with a few mechanical parts. Is a really nonsense.
No shop that has tried to sell me a spoke for £1.50 is ever getting my custom
Would never have anyone else fix my bikes, DIY all the way.
@@peterwillson1355 I've heard some crazy reasons for hating your LBS, but "how dare a bike shop have the audacity to make 60p from me" takes the biscuit
Supporting local bikes shops is super important, they'll be feeling the pitch now. shopping local and suporting the businesses around you will help 🙌 Even if it's not for service work, buying parts through the shop will help too.
For most of us small guys, we’ve been feeling the pinch since Spring 2021….only getting talked about now because the big companies can’t hide behind their bs now.
Really informative show. Prices will inevitably have to come down, with slowed demand. My 1976 Mercian road bike with Campag groupset, would be too expensive to buy new at today's prices. The most important thing is that we get MORE people out on bikes (yes, e-bikes too). Love the channel. Keep up the good work!!😎
I bought a Trek Domane 105, which was too expensive but is a great ride. Trivial I know but after a couple of wipes across the crossbar with a damp cloth the DOMANE decal rubbed off and the rubber stopper for a bar bag also popped out(lost). Shameful at that price point, and indicative of attitudes I would say. So concur that a kick up the 🍑 is overdue.
That's nothing. Buy a Cannondale gravelbike and be amazed by how fast the wheels, bb, chainrings and bearings faill. You'll be really lucky if they kast 500 km
Is it just me, or did the guy who did the "Welcome to the GCN Show" look like Dan in 20 years? 😅
I used to be a bike mechanic about 30 years ago. I went into a shop recently and was floored. First, the price tags for mtb bikes were insane. Like $4-7k USD. Then, the bikes themselves are HUGE! They’re basically the size of motor bikes. And everything was battery powered. No thanks. I miss the gold old days.
Geez, some proper journalism, instead of relentless product placement. Wonders will never cease! Keep it up lads (& ladette)!
You let the expert get off too easy. The reason that Wiggle CRC is in trouble is that it has too much debt. Like so many industries, bicycling has been discovered and ruined by financial engineering where good companies are purchased and bled dry by financiers, who load them up with debt and put money in their pockets. They don't care about their customers, only their dividend checks. Then the company dies and the investors walk away to their next victims.
So 1500 quid for a groupset is the problem back to basics cheaper components.
I think that Waynes's explanation regarding the bike industry was spot-on. Good Job
Sad for all the employees of CRC and Wiggle and their job uncertainty in these times but happy about the potential shift of power going back to local bike shops.
Spoke to a few shop owners in the last week or so and they just have not been able to compete with these giant internet shops and have to rely on superior service and knowledge. CRC & Wiggle have been selling for cheeper than LBS shops can buy trade for years.
Disposable incomes tight as hell at the moment and I can see many boutique bike clothing brands going as well.. Never seen so many on line sales in my inbox.
During the pandemic lots of folks got into cycling and paid over the odds for the few 2nd hand bikes that were available and manufacturers reacted accordingly putting up new bikes prices. Obviously this was also due to energy ,manufacturing ,material and transport costs getting new bikes to the end user. Also a lot of these small boutique shops that started up during and around the pandemic due to demand for cool clothing are now realising that a lot of interest waned off after the world opened back up and have a surplus of discounted stocks.
I've been to some of those Pittsburgh streets. They are no joke. You go up in a car and feel like you are going to flip over backwards. Somehow they still build houses on them though
Grew up in Wheeling. Always wanted to give Canton Ave. a try.
I never understood why bike companies produce a new model every year. Even if it’s only a new color or slightly different components, they will offer last years model at a significantly reduced price. For example the MTB I bought this year was a 2022 model at a 25% discount. The only difference between it and the 2023 version are a different type of Maxxis tires. Why not produce the same model for 2 or 3 years and clear stock once every 3 years?
Because people forget about old models or don’t want to buy something that is “last year”. You have to constantly announce the same bike to sell well
@@aliancemdbecause people are status-seeking fools
It used to be that SportsBike Motorcycle manufacturers did a two year model cycle, with different paint for the year within. So people could always tell if you had this years model, if they cared. The downturn in SportsBikes led them to move to four year cycles, then no change, then no product when emission regulation changed. Very much a managed decline, not putting the manufacturer at risk. Suggests that Bicycle manufacturers will also need to have a dynamic approach to deal with innovation and commercial reality/economy. Of course I've just kept enjoying what I have and don't care about this years model.
It didn't used to be this bad. Certainly not in the 70s and 80s. They would keep the same model for several years. The Dawes Galaxy was a good example, until.perhaps the 90s.
The price hikes, people just recently purchased bikes who are not looking to buy more bikes! The cost of living is so high, just to name a few.
What's annoying is how low end the specs have gotten. Shimano 105 is no longer found on an affordable bike. 105 is the perfect gateway into higher end upgrades. If people are forced to ride a crappy drivetrain, they won't stick with cycling.
When you can buy a new kawasaki for less than a top end Pina or Trek then you have to hold your hands up and call it pure greed.
And the Kawasaki is better engineered by far cycle manufacturers struggle to make a BB hole both straight and round Kawasaki could not get away with that shoddy workmanship or QC.
Pricey are big now.. but we'd still rather have the road bike 😉
@@gcnWell you don't have to pay to ride them do you? Brands give you the latest and you just have to vomit rainbows selling them in return.
It just occurred to me you guys are actually pronouncing the name of Wout Poels correctly, a opposed to according to English spelling rules. My compliments!
Here in NYC shops are having a mechanic crisis. The cost of living is causing a shortage of mechanics and many shop are closed several days a week or close all together because of it. Trek shut down one shop as a result of poor sales but most importantly no mechanics.
My brother who is working in a bike shop said that after the pandemic the sale drops quite considerably. The really top-end bikes and cheap bikes still in a good shape in my country but the mid-range bike is not. People here seems to turn away from cycling because it is time consuming to get really fit and the road facilities and traffic here is not so safe.
Influencing CZcams chanel like GCN (and many others) are part of the problem ! They are the best thing that could have happened to the bike Industry. At every chance, the latest, most expensive and trendy stuff is brought to the fore. Always in it for the money. You can only be a real road biker if your bike costs at least 5000€. That s the Message - also subliminal.
With 5k€ bike you are not yet a cyclist 😂 Don‘t even come unless you buy proper Pinarello
GCN is all advertising!
@@hcw199 yes, for pro-level-products mostly
@@stanislavkindiakov6334 proper Louis-Vuitton-Pinarello ? 👍🤧
Si is such a professional, it seems he was ready for the interview strait from a nap.
When you're as busy and Si you've got to get your naps in whenever you can 😉
Still wearing his wrinkly sweatshirt that he quickly dragged out of the wash basket after his nap 😂
Bicycle companies have cashed in in 2021/22. Not even the usual "sale"s were there. Jacked up prices massively. Now can't find buyers in the cost of living crisis. And you expect cheaper prices on medium term? Dream on. The comment about Wiggle/CRC pulling black Friday sales early is ridiculous - they are bust FFS.
This aside, I would actually see a cost/profit breakdown for a £14k Trek Madone, for example. How much do the materials cost, shipping, margins etc. etc. Car industry has this information. Why not for bikes? How much money a brand like Trek makes per bike and in total for example?
This situation happened before in PC (desktop compiuter) market in late 90s in US. There was a boom in demand as infernet became popular and the demand on PC soared. Hundreds small custom and diy shops appeared (i owned one myself). Basically the price dropped so much that the smaller companies went down and those bigger ones who didnt mind taking a huge hit survived. Eventually it came back to normal after 2-3 years
This is a reconing pure and simple. Consumers are not stupid, GCN and all the sponsored reviewers are also to blame for this crisis. Gaslighting buyers for years that 12.000 plus is a "steep" but "good" price for a 'top end bike', and 6000 for a lower spec is a "great" alternative, combined with covid price hikes, promoing overpriced electronic groupsets (campy anyone?) and telling buyers that "it's the future, switch to electronic and get on with it" and nobody was saying "Guys, what are we doing? Are we not stuck in a bubble?" Cycling is a hobby with what used to be fairly a low entry point. But big bike had to make it elitist. And now it's here: buyer strikes. Solution: none.
The interesting thing about this situation, and slightly counterintuitively to what you've said, is that the high end market is still doing okay. That's the one bit that hasn't dropped off a cliff.
Probably lost in translation somewhere. Sales percentages in the high end market are what they are: percentages, not total volume. Calling 6k bikes for years 'reasonable' alternatives for the 12k gucci version was just bonkers guys. Even if that 12k bike sells well. Everyone that wasn't in the influencer shiny new bike bubble saw this one coming from miles away. That 12k sales percentage alone will not sustain a brand. It's the reasonable priced what was once 'top end' that does that. Face it: bike brands got greedy, over ordered on (expensive) kit bc they thought buyers would lap them up, but buyers wised up on that one.
I doubt many people think of buying a new bike in going into autum/winter.
You're correct it's a quieter time in the industry, but you often get a Christmas boost - especially with kids bikes.
only those who are waiting for a huge discount on a 4th or 5th bike to collection, or as a replacement for a current worn off model.
what an insightful and balanced interview/Q&A
I think the prices of some bikes are crazy and the profit must be massive. I was once told by someone at wiggle that when they order in magic mary tyres they order 5000 at a time. That's just one tyre. The manufacturers will be hurt by this drop in sales to the likes of Crc and wiggle as they have been ignoring smaller customers like bike shops for years
so, If I where going to get into enthusiasts cycling now, I can pick up a 2014 carbon high spec bike for £500 second hand. Or if I wanted disc brakes and carbon wheels I could get a new one for £8000 that's heavier and more complicated.
Its not the pandemic or the cost of living, its that cycling has gone mad
Yes, but you also need to invest into repair of 2014 bike.
@@stanislavkindiakov6334what would you need to repair?
@@peterwillson1355 at least replace worn chain, cassette, cables, full disassemble and cleanup rust. I bought Specialized Allez 2019 and spend 100 euro and two weekends to bring it to shape, even as in advertisement it was described as good and checked.
@@stanislavkindiakov6334 Clearly, I've had better luck than you: I've bought 30 year old wheels with everything as new: cassette untouched and factory grease as clean as a whistle in the hubs .
There are so virtually unused whole bikes out there, too.
maybe, but it won't cost £7500@@stanislavkindiakov6334
That’s all BS, the bike industry is struggling because greed has pushed them to ask waaaay too much money for good equipment. They have killed their own market.
It's true that top end bikes are getting some heavy price tags but there are still many entry level bikes out there. Lot's of the issues are based around brands holding too much stock. Do you think that cycling has priced people out the market?
I ride 2, 10 year old bikes - which needed a few upgrades which made them feel totally new to me. no interest in newer, pricier, (absurdly specialized to marketing hype & trends), for another 10 years.
A lot of comments on the excessive cost of bikes, which I do agree on. But... How much would a good quality aluminium framed, rim brake road bike with alloy wheels cost today? Decent wheelset, tyres, finishing kit, 105 or Ultegra level kit without disc brake, hydraulics and electronic shifting and no carbon??? Maybe £1000 to £1200??? Problem is bikes are £3,000+ because the vast amount of tech on them. This has changed drastically in a very short space of time. 9 years ago I treated myself to a beautiful, nice quality lightweigjht, aluminium rim bike for £900, its completely outdated now. Bikes have gone up in cost because the tech has changed drastically, just compare it to a bike from 10 years ago, its not the same product. Also I don't think for a minute that the bike industry is in crisis. Selling lots of stock at below trade prices, year after year, was never going to be a sustainable buisness model for the likes of Wiggle.... Turnover is vanity profit is sanity.
The bike manufactures have no one to blame but themselves. In 2018, my Giant Propel Disk cost $2,200 and the top tier Giants were $7-9,000. Today, an entry level Propel cost $5,000 and top tier bikes cost $15-18,000. THAT IS RIDICULOUS!! There is NO REASON for this explosion is price. And don't blame "supply chain issues". It's been 2 1/2 years of covid. The manufacturers are just greedy. Who can afford an $18,000 bike? At this rate bikes will cost $24,000. When this bubble bursts, prices will drop to non-insane prices and us normal people can afford them again.
the entry level propel, the propel advanced 2 with the new 12 speed 105 cost $2,400 here in Taiwan, the top tier propel cost $10,000.
Brands are just ripping us off, clear and simple... before CV19 i bought a trek emoda ultega for £1,800 same bike now probably £3,000... total rip off.
Your vid. made me look for new bike parts, for the first time in six months...
Peak consumer point has been reached regarding pricing! Ridiculous prices for bikes, components!
When it comes to safety, I agree that cyclists need to do their part. I am middle aged and I, as well as many of the older riders I see wear brightly colored clothing. So I see high visibility as a generational thing.
Head and tail lights, even during the day are more and more common. Now, so often the younger riders I see, especially the racer types, black Is the chosen color of their clothing, I’m not telling them what to wear, but I have had too many people pull out right if front of me and wearing bright colors is the only way I ride.
Fashion cyclists wearing the blacks and dark grays, Rapha stuff.
@@happydogg312your high beams in my eyes makes me hate you. Adjust your lights to not be a douche. So many cyclists are like that, blinding people on the road.
Hierarchy of Responsibility - Human Beings Matter, however transported.
I remember the times when with 4000 usd, money could buy a top notch mountain bike. With a SID fork, full xtr and mavic x Max wheels.
ought to be able to get 2 good mtbs for that
Everything went downhill with the cycling industry when companies started to push disc brakes, carbon frames and frame shapes with internal cabling that are suited for top of the range bicycles in to the entry road cycling bikes range. Nowadays you almost can't get a good entry bike with a Shimano 105 groupset for less then a 2000€. Especially since most producers only make expensive carbon bikes and have abandoned affordable aluminum frames. Only Canyon and Rose bikes still offer affordable aluminium bikes but they are hard to get since they get sold out nearly instantaneously.
Specialized Allez. Aliminium. SRAM Rival.
Sweet fishing reel at 6:23!!
Hope Wiggle/CRC pull through, bought loads of running and gym gear from them over the years even before I got back in to cycling and always look forward to my little bag of Haribo in the box!
Wiggle deserve to go for that website
@@matthewlewis2072 never understood why they have 2 separate websites but are one company and the prices were (near) identical
I didn't get the Haribo in my last two orders last month😢
I hated Wiggle's takeover of CRC, it was always going to end badly for the end user. If they didn't shaft us with the merger, Brexit has more or less taken away the European option. Slightly ironic, that on the back of this Shimano, and now SRAM are having major recalls. Bikes have never been more expensive but the industry is imploding. Next stop, marketing will be flogging the fixey horse like there's no tomorrow.
That Wayne block was excellent. It is not often you hear someone talk so clearly and without any bull.
Great to see the Dirty Dozen on the show today. Here in Pittsburgh it is a cycling right of passage to ride the event. I love the back of the group diversity that enjoys just giving the hills a shot (one person used a bike share bike one year)... It is definitely worth a gcn video putting Hank through it... Can Andrew Feather win it...or Mannon's worst nightmare.
If your current bike still rolls down the road and you don't want to spend the money, just keep riding your old bike! Or save your money and buy something fancy later. Inflation adjusted prices actually look fine, and a much bigger problem is the ongoing supply chain problems that mean you can't buy the new bike you want or it takes a long time to receive it
Great point! We don't all need new bikes - riding and repairing the bikes yo have is a great thing to do. The supply issue is real and some brands are finding themselves in a tough spot. Have you had to wait a long time for new parts or a bike?
@@gcn yep. Ordered a new Orca this year in March and didn't actually get it until August
Hope Shimano will lower their groupset prices.
Essentially, every dentist, lawyer, doctor, financial advisor and bike geek owns their $10 - 15k USD top-end Specialized, Trek, Pinarello, Cervelo, etc. and don't need a second or third. Thus, that market is tapped out and declining dramatically. Those on the low to mid-end bought bikes during the pandemic in droves and now there's little to no market left for new bikes in this price range - especially when many those who bought bikes during this period are selling them in droves at a steep discount on eBay, because they effectively stopped riding once things returned to normal and they could workout at their favorite health club again. There's no need to buy "new" at this time when there are so many very good to excellent near new bikes on the aftermarket being sold at this time at a fraction of what the owners originally paid for them.
Never thought I'd make it onto the show - what a lovely surprise! I'm only up the road if you ever need a guest presenter 😂
Nobody on the road really needed disc brakes (or the special wheels and frames that they require). COVID created a temporary demand, but not many permanent new enthusiasts. The industry badly miscalculated.
The wiggle crc issues have been great for me! I bought a heavily discounted Vitus gravel bike down to £600 from £900. Sold the wheels, groupset and crankset for £300, got a smoking deal on a hydraulic 105 groupset for £400. Had some spare wheels kicking about. £600 total for a hydraulic disc braked gravel bike! Add an extra £500 for some hunt gravel wheels, and it will be epic!
All power to you!
But it does illustrate what lengths you have to go through in order to get a decent spec'd bike for a sensible price!
The GCN twins are back! Finally!
The loss of Islabikes is a big thing. They have driven the improvement in the design and quality of kids bikes. Maybe the move into adult bikes was a move too far?.