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Stepperonline CL57Y: Bench Testing with Centroid Acorn
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2020
- Click here for Stepper Motors: www.omc-stepperonline.com//?t...
Click here for Servo Motors: www.teknic.com/products/clear...
Click here for CNC Control: www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_...
Click here for Machines: www.precisionmatthews.com/
Click here for Fusion360: aklam.io/c5qzM3
Awesome. Thanks for the video. I wouldnt mind seeing more about hooking motors and drivers up to acorn. I actually bought some from stepperonline a year or so ago and havent used them yet. I plan on using them on a pm25 or pm30. Just need the mill now:)
Thanks for the video Franco.
Love to see how you mounted the motors and what couplers(motor to leadscrew) you used?
Franco, great video. I was researching pm25 conversion with acorn and stepperonline. This is exactly what I was looking for. Question: have you run centroid / acorn in the 2 1/2 axis mode? With cnc on just the x and y and manual Z (Do you have a video on that topic)
Great video Franco. I'm thinking of a CNC setup with the centroid acorn board, I assume you can use different types of server drivers from the same acorn board? I'm thinking of using 2 CL57Y's for closed loop Nema 24's and 1 CL86Y for closed loop Nema 34. Any problems with this?
I got a few of those, and noticed something very odd - the driver is imposing its own acceleration curve on the pulses sent by LinuxCNC, as if it was optimizing for smoothness instead of accurate positioning. The main symptom was circles not being round, because the actual position of one axis lagged behind the programmed position due to extra acceleration that was out of LinuxCNC's control. This kind of issues is usually caused by mechanical backlash, so I've spent a good amount of time looking at these before finding out that the drivers are to blame.
I had to reduce the acceleration to very low values for accurate position following at decent acceleration values. On the old driver I had (2HSS57) there was a parameter called motion smoothness or something similar, that could be set to 0 to get rid of this. On the CL57Y I can't find this parameter in the software - it's probably in there, but the parameters are confusingly named - well, even for someone familiar with PID controllers - and there is no documentation. I ended up going back to 2HSS57, which works fine after setting smoothness to 0 on every axis.
Anyone had this problem with CL57Y/CL86Y?
This would be also my concern, i don't own any kit yet, was just playing with the idea, but i always hit this question of the driver interfering with the motion controller commands...
@@laszlofabian I ended up emailing the manufacturer, and they provided me with the setting that disables it. But it can only be changed using the serial link, you need a USB-TTL serial module and a cable with a USB B plug to change that setting. Or you can buy their overpriced HISU tool.
Hi Franco, I ordered the same steppers from Stepperonline. Will get mine nextweek. How is your motor now? wanna know everything I can before I start assembling my CNC table
Hey Franco, can you please do a quick wiring diagram for the CL57Y to Acorn please? I’m having massive headaches with these drivers. thanks.
Are these the motors you are going to use on your pm728vt x and y axis? Just wondering because I'm trying to follow you as I am doing my pm727v
@Franco Thanks for this closed loop stepper motor video. Most keep promoting the servos but steppers are a great solution for small mills. What about the power supply? Could you make a video to explain why we would want to use a Switching or Unregulated Linear power supply with stepper motors?
I was thinking about that to. I contacted stepperonline and asked them if I could use a Unregulated Linear 1440W/72VDC/20A Toroidal PSU and they told me I could rather than using 3 of their 350watt 48v supplies they suggested.
@@csxal I have heard some discussion on the feedback from steppers affecting switching power supplies during deceleration. I dont know if its really an issue or not.
@@testyourdesign233 if you are moving a lot of mass, the motor actually becomes a generator when you decelerate. I don't think that will be an issue for a properly sized switching PS in a diy application. On an industrial machine, it may be a different story. Always best to oversize your switching power supplies.
@@FrancoCNC thanks for sharing your thoughts. There has to be a quantitative way to determine if there is a problem.
Hello, can you tell me how you connected the alarm signal output?
Hello Sir,
Do you have a working schematic for a 4 axis DIY CNC Router using Close Loop Nema 24 Stepper Motors?
Please advise.
It looks like a great setup. I am going to check out stepper online for my next machine. There is one thing that confuses me on the configuration. I have seen in this video and others about setting the pluses / revolution to 4000 or higher. But the encoder of these motors is only 1000 CPR. How do those values relate to each other?
Hi. I believe they are 1000 line quadrature encoders. That means you get 4000 data points per revolution. When you set the micro stepping above that, the motion becomes smoother and I'm sure the drive is simply interpolating between encoder measurement points.
A little more info my mach3 XP computer crapped. Using a taig mill with factor driver micro proto 2000. looking at an acorn and wiring my nema 23 450 oz motors to the acorn CNC kit. My motors are 8 wire have no idea or wire schematic. Have Shinano sst58d5811 motors? I don't see where the Acorn CNC kit works with closed-loop motors if I had to replace motors? what computer with window 10 will work on the Acorn Software do you know. I have a dell with 32-bit windows 10.
Can you please link a wiring diagram for this setup?
Wait a minute. If those are 5A RMS bipolar motors arent they capable of pulling 10A each?
any tests in machining using them ?
Is there a way to configure motors on Acorn? I wired all my motors but the z axis moves the ya is motor or do I have to rewire accordingly?
What is the mf+ and mf- get wired to? Looks like a couple jumpers on there?
I need this board
Please be aware that the motor wire colors might be messed up. My Nema 24 with CL57Y from stepperonline.com had wrong wires connected together in the connector. Funny thing is that the colors were wrong on both sides of the connector. I had to measure the resistance between the wires to find out which one is which... not cool. Other than that I'm impressed so far.
Unbelievable. And scary. Are they accurate ?
hey mate, I just recieved these exact same drivers/steppers for my cnc build. I havent got a controller yet to test them with but.. I was looking over the data sheet for the steppers and realised it says No. of phase =2, Amps/Phase = 5A... so are these 5A steppers or are they actually 10A steppers? thought maybe you could confirm with 1 stepper hooked up and test the power draw using a clamp meter if you have it at your disposal. Great video btw, thank you.
Hi. They should be 5amp motors. As I understand it, only one phase is powered as a time. Thanks for watching!
Hello Franco, thanks for sharing. This will be my 1st project using a stepper motor with Nema 17 and i am thinking to purchase this CL57Y and yes i will use yr link. Can you share if this driver capable to drive a fine pitch, i am looking at 1.5micron per steps. I also am going to use my latest ball lead screw that can go very fine movement for this project.
Can you recommend any software GUI that i can use for my project? I am looking at a slow speed micron level per steps on only Z axis.
Nice video! You set the steps to 4k, what are the risks of going higher?
Hi. More steps will give you smoother motion but it reduces torque. You also need a CNC control system capable of generated the pulses for the increased steps. So, more steps can mean you become limited at how fast you can move.
Thanks for the video, I'm not sure if you've covered this before but can closed loop steppers operate without limit switches like some servo systems?
Side comment, I bought the quiet compressor you did a video on a while ago and have loved it.
The compressor is awesome. I use it nearly every day. In fact, I never turn it off. I know what you are talking about with the servo reference signal output. I've never seen a stepper system with that capability. I generally use limit switches to set my home position.
I have a CNC router that the control system has died and I’m thinking about putting acorn System my stepper motors are good but the drivers are no everything else is dead I’m using candle for control system and it’s horrible
I like your video but would not AC Servo motors better since they are more accurate and use an encoder instead of of a 24 vollt steppper motor which usually uses an resolver or no feedback so the Acorn so it doesn't knows were the shaft is located?
Hi. These are closed loop steppers. They have encoders and are very accurate. The feedback is between the motor and the driver.
I have the this same kit that I am attempting to get wired up. It looks like your step signal to the driver is going to the DR+ terminal and the DR signal is going to the MF+ terminal. Is this right? I was thinking the ST signal went to PU+, DR signal went to DR+ terminal, and the EN signal went to MF+. Would appreciate any insight as I can't get mine to turn the motors yet. I'm using UC300ETH controller though.
czcams.com/video/W838k7s0ptE/video.html
I see that these drivers are rated for 24-50v with 36v as typical. Would you consider running them at 48v?
It seems he said in one of his video that the 36V is the sweet spot good enough votltage for amps and not too much to keep the motor cooler.
Hi,
Thanks for the video,
Why not connecting and displaying the error pin from these closed loop drivers ? It seems that in your test the loop is open between the centroid and the stepper driver !
After that you can add weight on axis and restart your dynamic test waiting an error (or not) message from the driver.
In the SepperonlineDriver can we configure how many micro steps missed are allowed before an error ?
Other idea, could we connect the motor encoder in parallel to the centroid too to have a true feedback of the total error ?
Cheers
Hello. I only connected STP and DIR for the sake of time and simplicity. When I build my electrical cabinet, I will connect ALM and ENA signals, as well. The configuration software for the drive allows you to change many settings - I'll cover that in an upcoming video. The Centroid Acorn board only has one input for an encoder and that may only be used for a spindle. Centroid offers boards that have the ability to connect the axis motor encoders directly to the board, but those are more expensive systems. Truth be told, these closed loop stepper systems are very good and do a great job of managing any error that my be present. They will try to adjust the position of the motor shaft to make sure they achieve all of the commanded steps. If they cannot complete the commands, they will generate an alarm.
Franco Hi, thanks for your complete anwser. I thinks I will order stepper as you on stepperonline . At the beginning I was thinking to order clearpath servos but it’s too expensive and with the covid the shipment to France will be hard. Regarding the centroid it looks nice with its integrated software but finally it’s too limited in IO for me. I ordered in the past a KStep with a KAnalog which can drive bis eight axis with all encoder returns. I will use a raspberry pi with Linux cnc to drive it via USB.My goal is to convert my SIEG sx 3.5 and be able to add after axis A and B and ATC etc...
Waiting for your next video...
Cheers
"I hate it when that happens" lol!
Don't panic and always carry a towel.
I just purchased 3 of these stepper / driver kits and am curious if I would be better off using a 36V 16.6A power supply for all 3, or run each on their own 36V 9.7A power supply?
Hi. Each motor needs 5amps. With switching power supplies, it's best to have about 110% or 120% of what you really need, just to be safe. So, in a perfect world, you'd want an 18amp power supply. But, you don't usually push all three motors to the max at once. So, you'll probably be able to use your 16.6amp power supply without any problems.
@@FrancoCNC awesome, those were my exact thought. Curious why they are rated at 48V but reccomend 36V.
@@yz400fer69 More voltage means more heat. You get a bit more speed and power, but more heat. 36V is a nice safe bet. The motors will work great for most all applications and they won't get as hot.
@@FrancoCNC great info and thanks for the reply. Are you still happy with this setup? Obviously not like the DMM servos, but a good middle ground for price point and function it seems.
@@yz400fer69 It is really hard to beat the closed loop steppers. They are easier to configure than true servos - and I like that a lot. They will always be my first choice for DIY projects.
do you know the pinout for the USB connector and rs232 box?
Negative. But, I've found that there really isn't much of a need to configure these drives with software. Most of the settings that "matter" can be set with dip switches.
@@FrancoCNC I have some 2HSS57-N controllers and they have micro usb but I can't find the pinouts anywhere. JMC customer support is terrible.
Hy buddy
I need to put a new electronic system in my CNC router I was thinking about an acorn but I don’t know about the drivers and motorsDo you have any suggestions
Hi. The Acorn will work with any motor/driver that uses STEP and DIRECTION inputs. That opens up lots of options. Here is a video that will help you select motors/drivers if you are looking for that: czcams.com/video/Gq03WN99FoE/video.html
There is also a control system call MASSO that seems to be very popular. I have more experience with the Acorn from Centroid and I was very happy with it.
Is there a company in the United States that has these products that has a customer service line you can talk to on the phone that you know of
@@kennethwright9706 They are really good about responding to emails. You should find contacts on this page:www.omc-stepperonline.com/contact
Hi Franco, Will they mount on the workbee without modification?
Thanks 🙏
Hi. The Workbee (like most small CNC machines) uses NEMA 23 frame size motors. Here is what I would recommend: Used two of these for the Y-axis (1-CL57T-S12) and then used this for the X and Z axis (1-CL57T-S20). Both are available from Stepperonline www.omc-stepperonline.com//?tracking=5e66c8d3ae793
For a CNC Router like the Workbee, I really think anything bigger than this would be overkill. The motors I listed above will be more than enough and I think you'll be really happy with their performance. And, they have Ø8mm shafts which I believe are the same size as the stock motors that ship with the workbee, so you should be able to use the couplers that came with the machine.
@@FrancoCNC Thanks, I'm actually getting the bulkman3d queenbee pro, which is the beefier version of the workbee, with linear rails.
I'm leaning towards getting the Teknic clearpath servos CPM-SDSK-2321S-ELS (already bought the centrod acorn) but wanted to check if closed loop would be ok.
The main reason me going with the clearpath servos is that I don't want to regret later on and spend more $ to upgrade.
I've wasted a lot of $ buying cheaper tools and ended up spending more, so my philosophy nowadays, is try to cry just once :)
Another reason is that I am a newbie, and from all the videos I've watch so far, including yours, clearpath + acorn should get me up and running much sooner than other options.
@@FrancoCNC Another question please: there is the "enhanced option" which provides position setting capability of 1/6400th of a revolution instead of 1/800th for the regular option, plus you get more RAS options.
Would above matter for a queenbee router, or even any CNC router,?
Thanks!
@@jungle3111 Hi. I set my motors to 4000 pulses per revolution. This makes the motors very smooth and you have plenty of resolution.
@@jungle3111 Hi. In terms of the technical specs, the Clearpath servos are probably the highest performing motors/drivers you can afford to buy for a DIY machine. But, I'll be honest with you, I would use closed loop steppers.
This is a very good option: czcams.com/video/SvfGTA-aA5k/video.html
The closed loop steppers work really well on machines like this. They are very smooth and precise. I also believe the closed loop steppers are easier to configure and get up and running than the Clearpath. Truth be told, you can't go wrong with either system. But, if it were my money, I'd go with the closed loop steppers.
Hello , does the software work in french language please ?
I don't think it does. You will have to use Google Translate on your mobile phone and point it at the computer screen.
You talking about the stepper drive configuration software, right?
NEMA 24 or 23?
These are NEMA 24 motors. But, they offer NEMA 23 motors, as well.