Hedonism, Taboos, Society, and Deprivation | Ben Shapiro | EP 418
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Dr. Jordan B. Peterson speaks with best-selling author, commentator, rapper, and co-founder of The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro. They discuss the postmodern twisting of religious conceptions, the proclivity for hedonism to propagate at the edges of shared ideals, the danger of a society which has no shared ideals, the necessity of deprivation, and the case for a transcendent narrative in regards to long-term societal benefits.
Ben Shapiro is the co-founder and Editor Emeritus of The Daily Wire and host of “The Ben Shapiro Show,” the largest conservative podcast in the nation. In addition, he also hosts “Debunked,” “The Search,” and “The Sunday Special.”
This episode was recorded on January 11th, 2024
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Chapters -
(0:00) 2024 Tour
(0:39) Coming up
(1:09) Intro
(2:55) The Enlightenment was wrong, prioritizing narrative values
(7:13) Conditional probability in AI, mapping frameworks of meaning
(11:20) The prioritization of the victim/victimizer dynamic as the cardinal story of mankind
(18:40) The unjust steward, there is utility in serving mammon properly
(22:22) Christianity is not in direct conflict with capitalism
(27:18) The explanatory narratives that rise with the demented state
(33:24) Hedonic drives are primordial short-term determinations
(37:18) Our proclivity to violate taboos, and what happens when we have none left
(39:19) We experience reward only in relation to an aim
(40:46) Surfeit, scarcity, novelty, and deprivation
(47:00) The commonalities of stories amalgamate into archetypes
(50:24) The storyteller matters as much as the story
(52:11) You cannot reduce the transcendent to the subjective
(58:11) The use of religion to manipulate, taking Gods name in vain
(1:02:12) Without reverence for tradition, we become slaves to the margins
(1:09:31) Hardship creates strong people, padding creates weak people
(1:13:21) We all start out helpless, but we are not all victims
(1:15:13) We have marginalized the role of the elderly in our society
(1:18:44) Voluntary responsibility equals meaning
(1:20:53) When to tolerate and reprimand a child
(1:25:50) We have a growing need for intergenerational dialogue
(1:27:40) Cultural crisis and political disillusionment
(1:29:51) People are longing for a return to first principles
(1:32:38) When we can’t agree on sexual identification, all commonality is gone
(1:35:11) Getting back to the campfire
(1:37:54) Ackman vs. Gay, The stability of the West
(1:41:46) The rebuilding process is not hopeless
(1:44:36) Your true legacy is your children
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Jordan Peterson interviewing the No. 1 selling rap artist in America.
Say it again 😊
The Young Turks heads are exploding, and the comment section is razzing them big time. LOL I have a few words for TYT.... U mad, U mad, U mad.
L I T E R A L L Y 😭🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Its funny because its true
do i see a rap collab with jordan?
This ☝️
It’s called a “joint”
Need this
Boats 'n' Hoes, Daily Wire remix
Well, JP has one music video under his belt already...I think he's ready.
“Well more is better, right? Wrong. The right amount is better. And having the right amount requires some level of deprivation.” WOW. So simple yet so profound.
Lagom!
that is in line with the ancient greeks idea of what constitutes virtue; it is the right amount of something, not too much, not little. just the right amount of something is the virtuous amount
Yes, an excess can merely result in waste.
Lmfao is this sarcastic? It’s such a banal statement
@@selin5266study more philosophy and realize the irony of your reply .
"Everyone will grow old, therefore the way we treat the elderly, is how we treat ourselves." - Jordan Peterson
The A B C exercise!
Jordie B and Benshizzle’s new hit single “ Clean your room, you dolt”
Bloody hell, quite literally
"JBP" could be "Jay-Beepy"
@@3ZEBRAor Dr. J😅
Slim Shapy ft Slim Jordy.
Ben is Jewpac
"The more responsabilities I have, the cooler my life is." I like that.
To a point for sure.... Burn out is no joke....balance is key in my humble opinion
Which could also translate to I like power
Some people have very boring lives with lots of responsibilities, they are obligated to do the same menial tasks each day as opposed to somebody without many responsibilities who can have more potential freedom in that regard.
Tell yourself
The pacebo effect and confirmation bias
Be careful what you wish for, why do you think it is 'cool'? Depends on what the responsibility is surely?
Dr. Peterson was instrumental in my faith journey. I was lost, directionless, and without true meaning before I oriented myself to God. I offer up all my suffering and pain to Jesus Christ. God bless you all.
God bless, protect and keep you always in His care in Jesus' Holy and Mighty Name, Amen and Amen.
@@kittybitts567 ✝️🕯
Note that you've never seen Jordan ever said words like this. He advocates for belief in god but he's not an actual believer beyond the metaphor.
@@juan.zabala Note that you don't pay close attention. Have you seen him cry talking of Jesus?
@@Imitatechrist you don't have to believe in the that sanctity of a character for a story to be moving. He doesn't believe that Jesus was the actual son of god or that there is a real thing called heaven or hell. He simply talks about myths.
Dr Peterson, you probably don't read these posts but I can't thank you enough for pulling me out of the depths of hell so many times. Whenever I am struggling, I listen to you and regain my bearings. God bless you- see you in Durham NC!!
THIS! ❤ I could have wrote this myself, I swear. JP has helped me see Truth in ways I never thought possible, while simultaneously helping me survive (literally) the deepest depression I've ever been in.
And I'll see him in St. Louis, MO!! I'm more excited to hear him speak on "We Who Wrestle With God" than I've ever been for any concert or show.
God bless, protect and keep you always in His care in Jesus' Holy Name, Amen.
It makes me so happy to see more & more people talking openly about God. Jordan has been instrumental in bringing this important subject to the fore. The Left, mainstream media, big celebs, big govt, et cetera, have been trying to move us as far away from God as possible. But God always wins.
It has been written!
@@michelle1772 "It shall be known!" I agree!! I think part of it is the absolute madness overtaking the used to be civil world. The younger generations are seeing this and they're like "wtf, no," and seeking God on their own. They've realized what some of the older generations haven't, life DOES have meaning and purpose. Saying that nothing means anything hasn't done the world much good, so they're turning back to the old ways. Tried, true, and tested. I have faith that good and God shall prevail. I spread His word to encourage those who are lost, we've gotta help them find their way back to His path. I think that's the most important thing we can be doing right now!
Man's like a father to me, I agree
Can you imagine Dr. Peterson throws some rhymes just for the fun of it. What a time to be alive.
Yeah, I imagine it would even more cringe than Ben, and I would be correct.
@@BubbaabbuB No way. He's got more bars than the gulags. (He has my blessing to steal that one)
Pingtrip plz
If I could recollect before my hood days
I sit and reminisce, thinking of bliss and the good days
I stop and stare at the younger
My heart goes to ’em, they tested with stress that they under
And nowadays things change
Everyone’s ashamed of the youth
*‘cause the truth look strange*
And for me it’s reversed
We left ’em a world that’s cursed and it hurts
‘Cause any day they’ll push the button, and all good men like Malcolm X or Bobby Hutton died for nothin’
Don’t it make you get teary? The world looks dreary
When you wipe your eyes see it clearly
There’s no need for you to fear me
If you take your time and hear me
Maybe you can learn to cheer me
*It ain’t about black or white, ‘cause we human*
I hope we see the light before it’s ruined; my ghetto gospel”
- Tupac Shakur
Akira the Don has come close to that by integrating JBP's speeches into music
I was born in 1955 in a small town, about 6,000 people. If I was out & did something wrong, not only was I disciplined, I knew my parents would hear about it & discipline me again!! It was encouragement now to act up in public or anywhere else!! It wasn’t a good idea, it was a GREAT idea!! You can tell by kids behavior that it’s needed now. Thank you for this discussion!!
Self discipline would be more concrete. Some don't care if they are punished, as someone noticed them and gave them attention. When self discipline happens, that's when we grow up, to know that we won't allow ourselves to give into wrong doing. 😊
@@zoomby4380 I don’t believe we learn self discipline in a vacuum. We learn self discipline by being disciplined. JHIF
@@pattichapman7296 True with family. Yet so many today are in Dysfunctional families. Schooling today is not about reading, writing....but been a victim. I hope you can change this lack of discipline.....with Grandchildren....nephews and nieces...cousins.
Exactly! I probably saved myself tons of troubles because of the small town non-anonymity 😅 my husband and I chose the same - a smaller town to live in for our children. Best decision ever
@@zoomby4380How do you expect children to "self-discipline" themselves?? Do you have kids?
I swear I could watch these two talk all day
I know what you mean I am gay too
I know, right? For free, even.
Me too! I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s really captivating to see them both listen to each other. I feel like in general, others can’t keep up with them. This conversation feels inspiring and affirming; we are not crazy for refusing to partake in the new, hellish culture and having integrity will pay off 🥰
Honestly same!
Agreed! My 2 favorite podcasters, listening to each other in an honest, good-faith discussion about what the hel! is wrong with the world and possibly how to fix it. Sign me up every single time.
I live in Belfast. And jordon petterson is my hero 🎉thank you.
Represent
A seminar on the Gospels!!! YES PLEASE
Go to Jordan’s CZcams playlists on his profile and look for “The psychological significance of the biblical lectures” series. It’s one of the best free knowledge sources I’ve ever listened too on very similar subjects discussed on this podcast episode. It’s an in depth version of those topics. 👍
@@actionottawayes, they are pure gold
I'd like to see Dr Peterson continue with the old testament first to review the book of Isaiah and invite Rabbi Tovia Singer to the table to tap into his vast knowledge.
Commenting for the algo😅
"There's nothing more cowardly than attacking the dead because even more than the unborn they can't defend themselves" JP
I managed to watch (and understand) Ben Shapiro with 1.5x speed. I feel like a hero
😂😂😂
Listening to this conversation literally makes you gain brain cells
Doctor Peterson, you're always an inspiration to me. May God bless your legacy.
@@fog8969to err is human
Amen
@@fog8969to use Gods name in vein is a sin…we are all sinners, we all sin. God still blesses sinners
Me too! This man has pulled me out of the depths more times than I can count!
Me too! This man has pulled me out of the depths more times than I can count!
I'm a physics PhD student in South Brazil 🇧🇷. Some of my colleagues are in LLM's and I follow along, on a highly technical level whats going on with their evolution. Hearing JP speak about them is not only novel to me, but incredibly deep and logical. Which makes him a true genius to me. The guy is like as technical, deep and careful with his concepts, premises and logic as a pure mathematician or theoretical physicist are with their arguments. ❤
You speak fantastic English
Oppenheimer was a genius and Ted Kaczynski was a mathematical genius, too.
I think they both also qualify as "deep" , and they both paid a heavy price for their
depth. . . and so did others because of the use of the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which I read was not necessary to use, since the Japanese were already going to surrender.
Hubris Is an horrible vice.
The ambition to advance academically with only one's cerebral intelligence without the balancing and centering of the truly human heart is a recipe for disaster.
🇧🇷👏👏
@@KaarinaKimdalyyou seems like the type who hates lemonade cause its made out of citrus.
Yes, theres some bad willed actors in the world, doesnt mean you have to lecture everyone for what others did.
I completely agree! I am doing my masters in theoretical at the moment!! Where are you from more specifically? Sao Paulo or more south of that?
This was really a good conversation. What a relief that it was not political. Thank you.
i'm an hour in and i don't see a conversation. i see Jordan on overdrive and Ben waiting to throw in a word or two, when allowed..
@@takeeverythinginTo be fair he’s talking about pretty complex things that I think require alot of time to talk about properly
@@takeeverythingin Peterson isn't interviewing Ben. He has ideas that he wants to throw at Ben and get his feedback/perspective, because he respects his perspective.
I thoroughly enjoy listening to both of these men and getting them together is incredible, even though I didn't understand a word of what they said.
I also love both of these guys and had a hard time following lol. But I’ll listen to it again bc I know they are speaking of very important topics, that I’ll benefit from understanding.
I feel the same way I enjoy listening. I have a hard time understanding they both use such intlegent words. I feel like the more I listen, the more understanding I get.
Same 😂
Yay! I too, find it much better to listen to people I really struggle to understand in hopes to understand at least half of it, than listen to drivel just because someone finds they earn more from aiming to a lowest common denominator. Few want to admit there are things we can't understand,sure enough. But the easy route will make us into idiots and losers, so perhaps it's better to struggle after all.
I commend you who have a hard time understanding because this shows you’re eager to learn. This is important and provides you with knowledge which is power. God bless you for your humility. Never change that virtue. Lean into it. ❤
very glad to see a more philosophy / psychology oriented episode, rather than a negative depressing politics episode.
Ha! Sister Meriam 😎
Yeah jp hit the nail on the head before when he said that Shapiro is wasted on politics, but the same is true of himself from time to time
I really liked that. I was expecting them to go over the state of the world right now mainly in American and Canada but what we got was something I feel way more necessary. Just going back on what these faiths teach and these philosophies is something that is necessary to understand deeply how horrible some of the current day events and the few people who unknowingly encourage more chaos are.
from time to time, it's nice to hear a discussion at such a high level, with two people who can formulate long, multi-level arguments that look deep into society and come to interesting conclusions.
And aren't we lucky to have them to listen to at our fingertips? Even when it's a bit challenging. They know society is a mess and they're putting themselves out there trying to help, making a huge difference.
Not to be a dick, but Shapiro isn’t even playing in the same league as JP.
I remember when these two met (a Dave Rubin interview with both of them). Their friendship has blossomed over the years on several levels, and that's been so much fun to watch. To me, listening to their insanely intelligent delve at length into the topics discussed in this interview, this is listening to two genius friends bounce ideas off each other. It's at such a high level it's almost incomprehensible to the common man. What a treat that they shared this conversation with us.
Thank you to Jordan and Ben for sharing this thoughtful conversation. Thank you both for being a voice of reason and decency in these troubled times.
Dr. Peterson and his position about a humanities degree's purpose in life is what made me follow that route. I know how to make ends meet besides humanities, but humanities is what gives us an overarching view of the world.
Amen. I got my tickets for his tour in Manchester, nh, on Monday. I'm so excited to see him speak and to find others around who are also intrigued by his knowledge and want to learn more.
We’re unbelievably lucky to have Dr. JP blessing us with this information for free on CZcams. God bless this man. 😭 how many lives has he set on the path to redemption.
Please, bring Tomas Sowell to your Podcast, Dr. Peterson. Thanks!
Holy shit, he's alive?!
@@Shnap1337 Yessss
Men everywhere need to hear these 2 men talking!
Yes but don’t stop there. People everywhere need to hear these two men talking!
Both intellectuals are impressively informative. As much as one can comment on what Ben Shapiro has to say, it cannot be argued he has a spectacular ability to listen.
That's because Ben knowns when he has something of value to gain from someone else. One could argue that JP is the father of modernism of our era.
The message these two are spreading is amazing. I wish as a Canadian that North America as a whole can get back to these core values and prosper once again.
It’s good to see Jordan speaking with a black man about important cultural issues.
Winner 🏆 hahaha
Black people aren’t the only ones to ever have cultural issues of racism and segregation. Nor have they had it the worst
Always a pleasure to listen to these two scholars. Thank you. 😇
it’s amazing to see Dr. Peterson’s progression as a podcaster, just as it is amazing to witness the formation of his ideas in real time. this is top tier content. ideas as complex as they are important, articulated with lethal precision. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I absolutely agree that Peterson has a lot to offer. As far as what he's providing with this podcast specfically though, I think there's better examples of what Peterson has to offer. He's a lot better at talking than he is at talking to others if the distinction makes sense.
Absolute love the discussion surrounding stories and LLMs! Narrative is everything. That's how I view storytelling and how I break down stories. People are tricked by hyperreality portrayed in films and videogames, thinking their lives do not follow the dramatic arc or that it's somehow separate. The only difference is the amount of mundane activities in reality vs. hyperreality. Your life does not bend as sharply like a dramatic arc in a movie, but you are governed by the same principles that we screenwriters use. You either change your flaws or you go down with them. A story as old as humanity.
Thank you. I enjoyed this.
No fighting, just two smart men listening to each other and learning from each other. Wouldn' t it be nice, if ppl did this more often. I learnt some things too.
My husband makes fun of me every time he hears the violin sounds start in your intro as I listen to you before bed. Good way to wind down. Thanks Dr. Peterson 💕
Cringe
@@edwardhorvath2256 how?
@@edwardhorvath2256 🤷🏼♀️ you’ll be ok
And it wakes him up? If someone is sleeping, why disturb them? These Are long videos
@@recoveringsoul755 lol it doesn’t happen often it’s just when he happens to hear it. He thinks it’s cute. Geez
Thank you, I’m extremely pleased with a level of discourse.
Dr. Peterson and Mr. Shapiro - Thank you. This presentation is a magnificent example of the capacity for the conversation of two wise men to elevate ideas to a place 'greater than the sum of their parts.' Your willingness and ability to combine and share your individual reserves of comprehension, discernment, and wisdom, is a great blessing to all who will watch and listen. The presentation is exemplary of the very issues you are discussing: Face to face, meaningful conversation is the thing missing from and desperately needed by our modern society; Wisdom received from respected elders is better wisdom, precisely because the storyteller matters to the story; Virtual presence means actual absence; More screen time means the 'observer' suffers reduced comprehension, precisely because the absence of face to face interaction means only the observer's perspective is available to interpret the screen. With this conversation you are 'modeling' - the very 'modeling' and types of conversations you advocate - and your example utilizes the aforementioned 'screen' media in the most beneficial possible way, overcoming some of the screen's limitations by presenting your ideas through a process of each illuminating the others perspective through reflection, commentary, and exchange. Brilliant, a blessing, and Bravo! Perhaps you would consider doing the same together in a book?
My 22 yr old Son purchased VIP tickets for Himself, Me and my 20yr old daughter. A gift for my 47th Birthday! Tulsa Oklahoma venue... I am BEYOND Excited. In the past few years I have been "WRESTLING" with my own faith. Dr. Peterson, your EXODUS Series has Catapulted my understanding of the bible and its LESSONS forward at such a pace I find myself reading ALL things God, The Bible & the Trinity as fast as I am able. There are No words or amount of money that can express my gratitude. In addition Tammy 's story and her dedication to the Rosary has inspired me in a way I can't come close to describing. THANK YOU BOTH FROM THE DEPTHS OF MY SOUL❤
Hearing enthusiasm like this is my interpretation of the Holy Spirit. You have expressed your joy and gratitude in few words, and it has been ignited by the great man that is Jordan Peterson, and equally, if not more, importantly by your conscientious family.
God bless you.
👍👍 To sail the spiritual seas, the emphasis is not on the skill of the sailor, rather, it is their respect and love of the wind and waves.
The blessing during these times is the meeting of the “great minds “ and we the people are granted the opportunity to listen in. How beautiful. 🙏❤️
Yes, isn't that amazing? There is so much awful in our world, but to have access so readily to discussions at this level, both that they make themselves available and we have the technology to do it, is marvellous. If we're able to save ourselves it will be because of this.
I'm going to be endlessly hoping you two continue onto a part 2 over these discussions from this parts ending chats to how you both had started. We are living out the end...🤕🙏
One of the most interesting talks in a while
First 15 minutes perfectly nails modern Western society.
Thank you for sharing these core values and insights about the fabric of society we live in today.
I didn't understand all the technical jargon, or philosophical principles, but I expect from what I did understand, it is worthwhile to listen to this over a few times to learn the concepts, or Ben and Dr. Peterson wouldn't have spent their time elaborating in these venues.
I believe these men are truly on the cutting edge of shaping the future, through elucidation of higher principles and moral values, in order to offset the fracturing and volatile course that is so apparent in politics, social media, and our education system.
Five minutes of Ben and Jordan my IQ feels like it's received a deep tissue massage. Thanks I feel so rejuvenated.
Cringe
@@edwardhorvath2256 Your so triggered your really going to every comment that likes Dr. Peterson and commenting the same thing lol get a life
@@reeseseward9003right, what a weirdo
@@imhim94ivan I mean really it's so pathetic it's almost hilarious family guy should do a bit about people like @edwardhorvath2256
@@imhim94ivan bro this little troll Edward is practically stalking Jordans page he is replying hate from comments 50 minutes ago all the way to 13 minutes ago lol just imagine him hovering over this video right now looking for the next comment to reply hate to lol
Jordan Peterson in the first 5 minutes: “Facts actually do care about your feelings”
Jordan & Ben Gem (1:16:00): People go to their elders on their own accord to seek their wisdom. In that model, people support their elders as they grow older. Once the states takes away this wisdom and the government turns it into power over their citizen, then the need of the new generation to rely on their elders is gone and you get a crumbling society where elders need assistance from the state to survive.
Thank you both so much for these conversations. You help me make connections that deepen my convictions.
Jordan and ben you are such an important people for our world it is so beautiful listening to you guys speak about christianity and judaism
Wondrous. Both guys bursting with wisdom and understanding. I thought all that stuff in the universities had to end up going somewhere!
There was so much discussed in this interview that I'm so glad I had the opportunity to listen to and to hear, because I've learned so much. And what I've learned is that, yes, I need a hierarchy of values, And, I need to know what those values are. Are they good, are they bad, are they insane, are they stupid, are they helpful, are they not? I've been spending a lot of time thinking through what my wants and needs are, but I also believe that I need to know what I value before I can get there. This interview has shined a light on another way for me to do that. I'm very grateful.
C. S. Lewis wrote a book on this whole discussion, it was the story of his Christian walk, "A Pilgrims Regress." In that book he explians how the philosophical schools all fell short in explaining what is. Only the Christian narrative, dying to self, gives explaination of all human desires and meaning. It is exactly what these two are struggling to put clear understanding to.
C. S. Lewis wrote his story based on "Pilgrim's Progress" but it was his post-modern take called "A Pilgrim's Regress" - it was written opposite of Bunyun's tale where his encounter with Christ comes after all of his philisophical meanderings. Where Pilgrim's Progress begins with an encounter with Christ.@@fog8969
What does "dying to self" mean?
@@fotoyartefotoyarte1044 giving up your will to the greater good (God's will). Dying to yourself = sticking to your passion (following the Lord) to the point where you would die for it, like a martyr, except the one you'd be dying to is yourself. Also could be described as aligning your will to that of God's will.
The Pilgrim’s Regress by C S Lewis in 1933. And then there is Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan written in 1678.
@@grolmidri7759thank you.
So glad to see this subject coverered by a serious intellectual such as Jordan Peterson. Since childhood I have wished to communicate these things to others but lacked the vocabulary or "shared protocols" to do so
congratulations to Ben on his powerful ascent to the king of rap. Looking forward to the Collab with Dr. J. P.
Thank you for the quality content Mr. Peterson and Mr. Shapiro. You talk about things which 95+% of politicians don’t even think about. Take care. Greetings from Bulgaria.
I would love to see Jordan Peterson talk about dream interpretation as a psychologist and contrast it with the biblical perspective of dream analysis. In Christianity, there's a lot of disdain for interpreting dreams because aspects of it strike as harmless leg-pulling nonsense at best and straight up witchcraft at worst. Still, dream interpretation is a verified, God-given calling in the Bible and I would like to seriously explore what that's about 😮😮😮
Joseph and Daniel would like to have a word with anyone who has a problem with such studies.
Oh I’m here for that, totally 👏🏻
Not sure if this is true or not, and it is going to vary on an individual level, but I’ve heard something that we remember dreams that are most noteworthy out of all the dreams we’ve had throughout the night….
As we have seen… they can be Warnings for us.
@@Tom-et2cd Yeah and for me I feel like the more resonant it is to what’s transpiring in my life, the more… well… resonant it FEELS as I dream it. And the more it sticks with me. There are a handful of dreams I’ve had like that in my life, where I couldn’t forget the details if I wanted to, then I go and look into interpretations, and lo and behold, they hold huge meaning that’s reflected in my life. Crazy.
Dr. Peterson and Ben!!❤😂 Yayyyy! Love this, and loved {FACTS} with Tom MacDonald! What a treat for us All😊
Jordan and Ben are pointing directly to "Pilpul"/פילפול. And learning what wise and righteous leaders across generations say is the best way through the life.
This was such a great conversation. Pure gold ❤
As a computer scientist specialized in AI and probabilistic machine learning I have to confess that Peterson in one of the few who dont talk arbitary bullshit about what LLMs are but is right on the spot - to our current knowledge -. Now I'm curious if markov chains and other (old) mathematical methods were included in his studies back then or if he were studying such things in his leisure time (before the youtube career)
Social Science isn't super invested in Markov chains. It tends to rely on traditional regression or logistic models. I work heavily with AI and and NLP which is very very new to disciplines like Psychology and Sociology. I'm actually looking at using Markov Chains to potentially detect Mimetic conflict but it requires high amounts of relational data with temporality. Hard to come by.
I studied factor analysis which is in some sense a primitive version of AI and supervised a student working on early LLM models
@@JordanBPeterson Really cool! I've seen famous OpenAI people calling LLMs the 'fast thinking' system and now they ponder how to build the slow thinking around it, using Reinforcement learning subsystems or external systems that the LLM can query via attention mechanisms.
And while from an engineering perspective this makes a lot of sense, I personally think that is not correct analogy to the real brain. That is why I liked your statement much more to just claim what it is in a formal way and not interpreting more into it as we currently know it is.
I'm currently looking into environment representations, self-localization and mapping (Graph SLAM) and to connect that as an asynchronously working system to LLMs to have a continually learning spatially grounded system that resembles a little bit more the brain (Hippocampal place ?). Then the LLM could also use that graph structure to reason over spatial memories and during the reasoning (reinforcement learning or ontology-reasoning algorithms) discover new connections. What I like about this is: I steal tons of ideas from actual neuroscience and apply them in a very, very loose way. Downside: not so much formalism and hard science.
@martinschulze5399 incredibly fascinating. Is this a graph-LLM hybrid? I've never heard of it. Is there a particular python library you're using?
Thanks for the education!
Lucky duck. It is a bucket list item of mine for Dr. Peterson to respond to one of my comments!
I love listening to smart people talk to one another.
I absolutely love hearing brilliant people, particularly when I am actually able to follow the concepts.
The last 10-15 mins of this conversation should be heard by every person on earth and our problems will be solved.
Amazing conversation, Thanks Dr Peterson and Ben Shapiro 😊
Love you 2. Thank you so much for your efforts.
Much love from a Canadian Christian.
The more I listen to Peterson, the wiser I feel, so there should be more people like him on this Earth if we want a society more educated and less ignorant. Regarding Shapiro, I'm not a fan of Ben, but I'm glad Jordan invited him on his podcast to talk about some topics, which tend to divide us as a society. Therefore, these sort of conversations are worth seeing once in your life.
Excellent discussion! ❤ Wow! Weaving a path forward even for Sam Harris. And giving me such a view into how the Bible connects all these themes. I am so honored to have access to this conversation. Thank you. I've saved it and will listen again many times. You are a gift to the world, Dr. Peterson, and give me lots of personal guidance in my life.
Sydney Australia is in dire need of Dr. Peterson's wise insights.
Cringe
👍🇨🇦
the whole world is, in my opinion
@@edwardhorvath2256yep... all of Australia needs some wisdom and leadership, not just Sydney
Where's Christopher Hitchens when we need him? His dark humour. With these, im sure, well meaning, sincere, hand wringing, catastrophic bores. If you thank god for anything Jordan, you can thank the good lord Jesus that Hitchens isn't around today, available for an on camera chat. Praise the Lord.
Greetings from Asuncion ,Paraguay
Man I truly do appreciate both of these gentlemen.
Two of the most intellectual minds of our time having a long form conversation, this video gets a like before I even watch it but show does almost all of Jordan Peterson's and Ben Shapiro's videos that I watch lol
I wish the best for you Jordan here from Brazil
Well done Dr. Peterson. Hope to see you in the spring when you come through the south!
How generous of the #1 rapper in the world to share his time conversing with you
I love Jordan. His voice, dialogue and insight.
I am going to buy his book for sure!
Hopefully one of these days im gonna shake your hand to thank you n yours for all the help. Peace n Love
Great stream. Thank you both for your wisdom and time.
Dr Jordan, please invite people of Indic faiths to have diverse insights on discussions concerning religion and philosophy other than the Abrahamic world view.
"Our idea of whether a story is inherently good or bad, depends on the coherence of the values of the story"
Unfortunately for us, we also value novelty in our stories -- the old stories are "boring" or "old-fashioned", mapped territory, been-there-done-that. One reason Wokism is failing now, is that it's got the been-there-done-that feel of a fashion on its way out, without having any enduring intellectual value whatsoever.
Trends vs value
My grandma was and raised a feminist (my mom), but was always realistic about the fact that feminism would disapear once equality was reached.
They live in a world where they can have a female vice president, but are still somehow discriminated against.
They are not feminists, theyre just man haters who likes to create problems and scream at the top of their lungs
Another reason why having children is a critical aspect of the human experience. Because when you introduce tradition to your offspring (a.k.a share your favorite old stories with them) the become novel again experienced through the eyes of your child.
Depends. Old stories are repackaged constantly in ways that fool people.
Seeing “Rapper” in the description for Ben makes me joyous. I’m waiting for the second single to drop with him playing violin while Nicki Minaj duets.
Jbp, Ben, nicki
Absolute banger in the making
Isnt she part of the system?
I must say I'm now a fan of this podcast, Jordan Peterson !
Oooo!!!! Very excited for the gospel seminar! I was hoping ya'll would make that happen. I agree greatly with needing someone around to explain better the Bible. I've been tackling reading the Bible for the first time and I am often left with zero understanding so I'm always googling what certain things mean. The genesis and exodus videos have been extremely helpful to me. Thank you Jordan Peterson!!
This was energising, intellectually and spiritually! - thank you!
Fantastic interview I wish there were more people to talk with that speak this language it’s so refreshing 🙏
Exactly on the "Emotivist vision without the virtuous substructure" as Ben said... Subduing emotions was pretty much the #1 rule of the Enlightenment, aiming for empiricism, science, logic, reason -- less emotion (the French Reign of Terror was full on emotions).
I like seeing you contemplate some thing while keeping your extensive theoretical framework in mind. Its refreshing with the improvisation. Its a complicated thing to understand how social roles, individual motivation, scientific theory and myths all intersect. I think there is only one thing i want to point out that might be of interest to you: The notion of what is bad and good and how power and truth is connected to this. I think this subject goes deeply into questions of suffering, paradigm shifts, revelations etc, but beyond all of that, i think it is a question of feeling.
I respect you alot for how you are able to deliver a more than great framework of this landscape of feeling (and that might be just an implication of your work). Intimate, but scientifically distant. I think to properly get to know this landscape on an "emotional" level we can look to Jung and his discussions surrounding philosphy and what might be considered "anti-intelletualization" - even though thats probably a bad term for referencing the essential in his point of view.
I think some of the arguments surrounding dark-triad traits, human nature, ideals, idols, principles and social roles to name a few, can be better understood by a having a firmer grasp on what makes a social interaction evil or good. And maybe that this confusion can be better enlightened through a focus on suffering and consciousness, and the seemingly good or bad resulting from a given interaction (which in my mind doesnt have to reflect any easy categorical capture). My mind strays to buddhism.
Wow you nailed it.
Wow you nailed it.
Good talk. Grateful to you both and that everything you discussed made good sense to me. Praise God
please consider Sydney and Melbourne on your tour - we need to hear you, too!!
That would be awesome.
Surely show Perth some love too! 😅
Dear Mr. Peterson. What I'm about to say, I say with all due humility on my part and incredible respect for you. I've been listening to and benefitting from your work for several years and am thankful for the impact you've had on my life.
That said, you sometimes say things about Protestants that are fundamentally flawed, as in this episode - i.e., protestants and private interpretations of Scripture and the number of denominations out there, etc. As a Christian of 14 years, a Reformed Protestant myself, a seminary trained student, a pastoral intern, and someone with a solid grasp of church history and the interplay of its complex dynamics, I have sufficient credibility to challenge some of your assumptions. For example, related to this notion of private interpretations, I question whether you fully understand the protestant view of the significance of the preaching of the word as the primary means of grace. I question whether you fully understand the protestant view of the central importance of being vitally connected to the inner life and ministries of the local church. It's not just "me and my Bible." I question whether you fully understand denominational distinctions and how they have far less to do with private interpretations than they do the impact of theological liberalism in mainline Christianity. I question whether you recognize the same influences and results at work even in established institutional bulwarks like the RC Church and Eastern Orthodoxy, underneath the gloss of theological and practical uniformity.
I would be more than happy to discuss these things with you, either online or offline, and no one would ever even need to know the conversation took place. I'm offering because I genuinely care. I'm open to discussing all things Christianity, Scripture, traditions, etc.
Again, please receive this in the humility and respect I have towards you.
1 minute in. I love your content Dr ! I am very thankful to have role model like you.
❤ always a joy to watch a long discussion between these two intellectuals
can't wait for the next seminar! I was thinking maybe Isaiah, but the Gospels, WOW!!😍😍
Yes! I am very interested in your upcoming Gospel exploration!!!
At the point where they speak upon the problems with men and sex right now. I’ve had three boyfriends in my 6 years so far as being an adult. All of them had or were watching porn when I dated them. I spoke to them hoping they would stop. Two of them did, but the mental damage and damage it caused to their heart didn’t go away. Both of the two still disrespected me, objectified me, and tried to make me like them. Their minds were so dirtied that they couldn’t see truths in the relationship which were a result of their choices.
If a man has watched porn consistently in their lives. I will not date them, because my honor has never been safe with them. I was told by one of the two I’ll never find a man who hasn’t. Well, if I can’t then I don’t want it. Jordan, Ben, I want very badly to be married before 30. But the problem in this pursuit is the men want what their dirty minds want more than they want to love.
Both these men told me they loved me and wanted to wait with me until marriage. But porn has made men into animals who put their desires first. So much so they lose a relationship where they could have had what God desires for them, a godly marriage. I will not persist in my pursuit of marriage and family if I can’t have a man who hasn’t been affected by porn. It’s not worth it and it’s not worth subjecting myself to.
It’s possible to beat the over-sexualization. But it must be practiced for years with patience. Hopefully our men can escape their vices. You’re still young 30 isn’t geezer age. I have hope you’ll find someone who sees beyond pornography. I know only 2 men in my personal life who do and they take up space that 1000 men could never fill up personality wise. Very sharp, funny, and wisdom that’ll make you think they’re psychic. Guys like those can see 5 years into the future.
I love this. Thank you for this wonderful podcast.
Incredible conversation
I enjoyed this discussion!
Thankyou very much!
i would love to see Dr. Jordon Peterson and Dr. Mark Chironna conversation. it would be a interesting and fascinating interview.