Lathe Tool Cutter Height Gauge
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- čas přidán 21. 11. 2016
- The tool for this video is a lathe turning tool height gauge, an idea I got from another you tube'r Joe Pieczynski. Joe makes very helpful videos that are extremely well explained. Check them out here:
/ @joepie221
Joe's specific video for the height gauge is here:
• Setting lathe tools on...
Please Note: I am a beginning machinist and I do not pretend to know everything. Please always operate machinery in a safe manner and if you don't know, find a reliable source. DO NOT COPY ME. I make a lot of mistakes. I provide these videos for entertainment only. - Věda a technologie
That is the cleanest lathe I have ever seen in my life. Been knocking around machine shops since 1976.
Thanks. I bought the lathe new and clean it after every use. I am not a terribly neat person by habit, but in rationalizing getting such nice tools, I am attempting treat them as well as I can.
Dudley Toolwright Totally understandable, why not have pride of ownership in a machine, particularly if you buy it new. Look after your machine & it will look after you.
Hi
I am pejman Bahmanof.
I am iranin .
I am 50 years old .
l live in london. ( for 4 years )
I'm skilled in welding , lathe machine
operator and CNC metal .(25 years )
I will be happy to work with you .
Can you help me ?? ...... please .
I love this industry .
My number : 07494716422
Email : pejman134869@gmail.com
Thanks .
pejman Bahmanof
There's a video of a CZcams guy, I think it was NYC CNC, that visited a machine shop in Germany. The place was so clean you had to take your shoes off before going into the work area. That video was probably 6 or 7 years ago.
Fun fact. Today it is "canon" to set tools exactly on CL.
But in the REALLY old days it was to keep the tool about 5° above center with respect to the work center point for outside turning. That is really inconvenient to do in general machining so it has fallen from favor.
There were good reasons for it at that time with the tools of the day. It was 5° above center to always keep a slight positive bias of pressure on the cross slide screw , to accommodate flex in the tool and holders,to keep the work away from any climbing over the tool, to better control chip flow and to counter any tendency of the work to pull the tool in(especially with the back rake used at the time).
It's just one of those things we do now that are not necessarily better. Remember, most of our great grandfathers were not idiots.
Thank you for that. I find your revelation really interesting. I was taught in school that the tool height needs to be on center, so I never questioned the statement. I really appreciate hearing about different perspectives.
@@DudleyToolwright Yeah thats just one of the many things that have been lost. Sometimes it is not for the better.
@@DudleyToolwright This old time training video mentions the 5 degree above center for turning
czcams.com/video/sQRfBHUqQs4/video.html
When setting cutter height, I always finalize moving in the up direction so the adjustment nut is under load. Make things more consistent when changing tools.
That makes good sense. Thanks for sharing that idea.
Great video man... I watched Joe Pieczinski original video few weeks ago but you just took this tool to a whole new level.. I don't even own a lathe and have never worked on one but I'm planning on buying a mini lathe soon and videos like yours or Joe's are helping me understand more about what's ahead...subscribed :)
That was quite a compliment and I appreciate it. However, Joe is on another level completely. I have only been doing this a couple of years and Joe is a pro. Check out Oxtools and Robrenz. These guys explain exactly what they are doing and why and have years of experience to back it up. Welcome to the fold and enjoy making chips.
Great video with ideas for the tool-height gage. Initially the magnet seem like a good idea, but it will inevitably attract chips that will set your measurement off. It is almost impossible to clear all chips off a magnet....
Thank you for the comment. I really appreciate them. I thought about this a bit myself and ended up putting in the magnet before I set the tool height so I could face the bottom flat. This does not help with the attraction of chips, but does help with removing them. The main reason I chose to use a magnet at all was because I made the bottom out of aluminum and the top out of stainless so the tool is very top heavy. I wanted a soft material for the bottom so it would not scratch my ways, but the aluminum is very susceptible to dings. I realize that all of my choices involved tradeoffs. I was originally going to make a height gauge the worked off the cross slide, so I could use harder material. I still might. Thanks again for your great insight.
This was extremely useful for me cause my "Smithy Midas 1220 LTD" would only cut warm butter. Now I know why and how to fix it. THANK YOU! JD
I hoped it ended up helping. Thanks for the feedback.
Hey man...this is the first video of yours that I’ve seen. I really enjoyed it. I’m a hobbyist, so there’s rarely a need for me to be as meticulous with my machining operations. But it’s good to have your videos as reference, in case I ever do.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks. I am a hobbyist as well. I try to get better precision than I need so that if I ever do I can pull it off.
Warming the machine up to operating temperature is always advised and one thing I've noticed is when some measure overall dimensions, I rarely have see anyone measure the temperature of the material which I'm sure your aware of thermal expansion coefficiencies and this is of great importance as i was taught 20.5 degrees Celsius(if my memory doesn't fail me) and this was more than evident when accuracy was within tenths of thousands of a millmeter and certainly paramount to the required blue print documentation. This is why coolant was very helpful rather than to wait for the work to cool. Great publication by the way. Thank you
Thanks for the tips and the kudos. I was under the impression that precise tool location on center was not necessary.
@@DudleyToolwright on the contrary tool cutting height is very important not only for concentricity but tool life and surface finishes. Where I completed my trade had a jig boring room air conditioned to this specific temperature but still the work also had to be tested which I don't ever remember them doing it but on site out in the field this ambient temperature and it's variations throughout the day has to be taken into consideration. Cheers
While were dishing out advice... try using some periods when punctuating several sentences. Haha, holy mackerel!
Very informative video, clearly presented. Thank you.
Thanks. I appreciate you watching.
Good idea with the magnet- makes the gauge very stable.
Thanks. I use this tool often and it really works well. I never get a pip when I use it.
Very well done video. I made mine with a electronic edge finder mounted horizontally when the tool touches the bottom edge of the finder the tool height is set. Keep up the good work.
I really like that idea. Thanks for sharing.
Gday Dudley, this is a great idea, my list of tools I want to make is getting longer now the more videos I watch of yours, Thank you for the awesome ideas, Cheers Matty
I almost need to apologize...the list will simply go on forever. Watching Tom Liptopn over at Oxtools always costs me money. Thanks for the comments.
Good show Sir, Thxs for your time!
Thanks for watching.
I made one of these this evening after seeing your video. I learned a few things along the way. First, I will probably make another one out of hex stock--the darned thing rolled off onto the floor already. Second, it appears that a few thou either way just doesn't make a difference in my kind of work, and that's nice to know since I apparently made mine a few thou short. Finally, the magnet and SS were unnecessary, a simple aluminum cylinder with a flat worked just fine.
I used a height gauge on 123 blocks on the ways to get the height of a dowel pin in a collet. Accounting for the measured size of the pin, I made a cylinder a few thou over, then used a test indicator to compare the .250 pin with the cylinder sitting on a .125 ground parallel--those of us without gauge blocks must make do.
I love your creative solution and yr workarounds are fantastic. Hex stock is an inspired choice. Thanks for all of the great ideas. I will pocket them away until I make another and then I will steal them. Cheers.
Great tip for the centering tool. I've used the ruler method and sometimes its quite hard to judge if its actually centered or not. I'll definitely be making this simple tool. Thank you.
Thanks. Some people like this type of tool others prefer to turn a part and adjust until the nib goes away. I have used this tool a lot since I built it and I like this approach.
First person I have seen on CZcams who actually usese a couple of common sense quick methods to set cutting bit height, everyone always over thinks this procedure
I wish I could take credit, but I got the original idea from a real pro: Joe Pieczynski, who by the way, has a great channel.
Wow! Good video with all the information of a "This Old Tony" video with all the humour of a German machinist and the pacing of live, unrehearsed streaming.
That is quite the high praise, that I feel unworthy of, but thanks. This Old Tony is a class act with outstanding production value, Stefen Gotteswinter, if that is who you are alluding to, is an actual machinist and very talented. I really am glad you liked the video and took the time to tell me so. You inspire me to set the bar higher. Thanks.
@@DudleyToolwrightgotta give it to TOT for the production values, no wonder TOT uploads less often
Other than threading and a parting I always keep the tool a couple of thou, or so, higher than the center for clean facing. I learned that from the old guys, whom just as I, did not work on new, accurate machinery in a pharmacy environment.
Very interesting. I have heard so many suggestions about tool height. Thanks for input. I will test out your recommendation. I also really appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts.
What you should have said is "a couple of thou LOWER than center" not higher.
(I only watched the first minute)
I find the best way is to put a piece of aluminium in the chuck and just face it 2 or 3 times until it cuts without leaving a nipple on the end (tool too low), or leaving a rough area in the middle as the tool pushes the last bit off rather than cutting it off (tool too high)
A fine solution. Thanks for the input. You share everyone wins.
i have an old lantern toolpost so this would be tough to do- if i have to use a threading tool
yes! that´s it! but some like to do it as complicated as possible.... ;-D
Very impressed with your skills.
They are meager. you are too kind. thanks.
Nice work. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks. I really appreciate that.
I've never had an issue with the rule method but I do walk behind the tail-stock and look. That was the first thing they showed us on the lathe at school & most of the others would skip it or half-ass it and those people always had a nub on the face of their work.
That's an interesting approach. I can't get behind my tailstock because my shop is way too small. I will have to attempt this somehow.
Good work on the height gauge I must make one. I have just stumbled across your channel and now subscribed.
Thanks. Check out Joe Pieczynski. I got the idea from him and made some modifications. He, unlike me is a professional machinist and a good teacher. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Dang, aside from myself and the person 2 comments down i do believe you have replied to every comment, something no normal youtuber would do. Nice tool btw now i got some ideas.
I always try to respond to every comment. If you guys are willing to spend your time to share your thoughts...it's the least I can do.
Thanks. I like the video, the tool you made, and the trigon cutting tool you were using. I don't have a trigon tool holder.
I don't use the trigon holders so much any more. I liked them for the three cutting edges, but have settled on the ccmt style inserts instead.
I also made a similar tool to Joe P's height-setter, but didn't cut flats to the diameter of the post. I place 6" steel rule end-on bridging the tool-tip and the top of the post, feel which side it pivots on and adjust the tool-height for 'no-rocking'.
Interesting solution. Thanks for sharing. It is amazing how man solution there are to even the simplest problems.
I use the rule method. I do it with a piece of 5mm rod in the chuck. That is a very sensitive test, especially using a true vertical to align the ruler against. Having got it right that way, it is then perfect for any diameter stock. No need to repeat it for larger stock.
I have not quite tried that approach. It seems quite good. With this tool you can use a fingernail to feel a height difference. Thanks for the input.
Suggestion: cut a ring groove in the handle section that will fit into a broom handle holder, spring steel version (or some type of forked structure) and then you can mount it near the cutters and not worry about it dropping or falling over.
I like the idea. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
Thank you
Thank you.
When I made my height gage. I made the bottom portion out of brass, because aluminium can get damaged easily. Then resest the magnet about .005. And on the top I made a small brass plate to swivel, making setting height easier.
Excellent suggestions. I will use them when I go for rev 2. So far it has been a really useful tool.
When setting up a tool holder for height be aware that threads of the height adjusting screw, finger wheel, and lock nut are made with fit tolerances. The thread profile of the female thread is slightly bigger than that of the male thread.
The weight of the tool holder block pushes the finger wheel up to the top side of the male thread and actually cants it at a bit of an angle. When you tighten the lock-nut down on top of the the finger wheel the lock nut forces the finger wheel to the opposite side of the male thread and raises the tool by a few thousands and at the same time removes the cant. This raises the the tool height by a few thousands.
The tool blocks I used had 1/2-20 threads. Every full turn if the finger wheel raises or lowers the block by 0.050" so for every 0.001" adjustment would be accomplished b 7.2 degrees of rotation of the finger wheel.
That was a really great observation. I had discovered that the tool height changed after you tighten the tool holder, so I always iterate, but never thought about why it was happening. Thanks for taking the time to share a really clear explanation of what is happening and your comments are really useful info for community. Cheers.
Oh and some good comments! Thxs!
Yea, there is quite a diverse set of opinions on what the best way to set tool height is. I present only one that seems to work pretty well for me.
Rulers are what you use in grade school. In a machine shop it is a scale. Look in the Starrett catalogue.
Fair enough. If you look up the definition of scale, Webster's says it's a ruler. I get word choice preference. Most fields like to create their own "special" dialect. The choice of scale over ruler is probably one of those.
Fast Orange Hand Cleaner with Grit makes an excellent lapping compound to acquire a perfect sliding fit once you reach the point of a part just starting to enter a bore. With the female part turning in a lathe chuck, apply a dab of Fast Orange W/Grit to the male and bore and slowly introduce the male into the bore while holding it with a pair of pliers as it laps its way into the bore.
Great tip! You must be talking about a pumice type rather than a walnut shell type. I really like you thinking.
@@DudleyToolwright Yes. Pumice type is the one I used. Also, if the fit is not too tight, the male piece can normally be held with emery cloth (instead of pliers) to prevent slipping in your fingers. Another plus is that Fast Orange is water soluble making it easy to remove and clean up.
Hi Rob,
I really like this idea... I just cannot see why anyone would not want their cutting tool at the correct height. One more item for the to do list.
Take care
Paul,,
I have used this tool at on since I made it (originally a Joe Pieczynski idea) and it has worked out great.
Moving the dial indicator along the edge with the carriage does not check for taper. You are just moving the indicator along the tool path, so you won't see taper due to runout caused by misalignment of centers. You need to measure the diameter at multiple points.
My thinking is that presumably the carriage runs along the ways which should follow a straight line. In addition, if that line coincides with the axis of the lathe, then there should be no taper. If the part is shifted off the center axis either by the tailstock being off alignment, or the part not square to the jaws, then I would expect to see a taper as measured from the carriage. I was not expecting, so was not looking for taper in, or caused by, a non-parallel tool path, so in an absolute sense I was incorrect in saying that there was no taper in the part. The best measurement of absolute taper would be, as you said to measure the part at multiple points. Although, with this particular part the greatest concern for me, lies with a parallelogram of non-perpendicular sides, because then the top surface would vary in height relative to the ways. Isthis where you were headed with your comment or did I still miss the mark? By the way, I really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Cheers.
dudley toolwright So long as the gauge follows the toolpath, you won't measure any kind of curvature, taper, or any other kind of departures from coaxial. It's just a simple fact. I suppose that you could mount the gauge on the other side and accomplish what you are trying to do, or you could have it follow the top or some other side. Each mounting position for the gauge would provide a measurement of changes on that side relative to the toolpath. Perhaps you'll have to set up a cut with the tailstock deliberately off-center to really get this point.
Thanks again for the input. I have a bar that you set up between centers. It was specifically designed to find tapers caused by out of alignment tailstocks. You place an indicator on the cross slide, magnetic or otherwise, and measure the bar at both ends. You adjust for zero taper. I realize that this would not work if the carriage path was not straight, but otherwise it was very useful in setting up my tailstock. The one I use comes from edge technology. Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Yes, you can use a standard bar to check for alignment of the tailstock. I guess what you are saying is that, given that the tailstock is known to be in alignment, then using a DTI mounted on the carriage you can check for taper. However, if you did find taper, you would have to be very surprised, since you had established with your test bar that the tailstock is in alignment (and that the carriage path is straight). Maybe you could check for taper due to heating of the stock during machining. If the entire blank heats up as you machine from left to right, maybe you would machine more of it off at the left, and this would show up with your DTI measurements after cooling. The main point stands: you can't accurately measure taper using a DTI that follows the toolpath. Anyway, I don't want to discourage you. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. Definitely do not worry about discouraging me, it is much more important that I not share miss- information. Trying to remember what I was thinking (or not) at the time, I have had issues with heat distortion causing a taper in the cut, but what I was describing doing was completely wrong. As a general rule, to test for taper measure at several points along the part. After you cut, baring events like heat distortion, the tool post, by definition, will be equidistant from the part along the entire tool path, because you just cut it that way and thus will always show zero taper. Even if you haven't cut anything yet, there is no way that measuring along the tool path would guarantee a measurement of taper. I just realized on my way into work what you were talking about. I am really glad you kept coming back with counterpoints. I initially, for some reason was imagining something completely different. Your comments were really great contributions and I really appreciate your tenacity. Sometimes my mind keeps imaging scenarios that we aren't even talking about and I get stuck. Truly Thanks. I would edit the video if I could to correct the mistake, but you tube doesn't allow it. In any case: TO MEASURE TAPER, MEASURE THE DIAMETER AT MULTIPLE POINTS ALONG THE PART.
As a quick starter method I used a piece of 1 1/4 inch 30 mm round aluminum bar. Set tool to about center height and made one thin cut for about 2 inches 50 cm to true up bar. Set the tool slightly low and make a facing cut , should leave a small nib . raise tool slightly and make another facing cut . creep up until there is no nib. Now put tool about center and make contact with faced surface and move tool across the piece , scoring a line rotate chuck 180 deg and repeat there should be a single line if not your center is between the lines. Readjust reface and rescore, keep the line as fine as you can. Part of at about 2 inches 50mm . To center a tool, chuck in your test piece and it is easy to line up the tip of the tool with your scored line
I had heard about the first part of this approach before, but the second part, with the scoring is an interesting add on.
Excellent camera resolution and great content.
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Looks to me by the finish on your part whatever method you used to start with worked darn good!
Thanks. Aluminum inserts have a positive rake and a really slippery coating that does most of the work for you. Discovering them was a happy accident.
First, face a small diameter. Once you find center pick a convenient flat spot on (repeatable) the bed, carriage or cross slide . Then just use your Dial caliper measuring to the top of the cutting edge of the tool. With a Sharpie Write-it-down where you can see it. You will probably be using the caliper on a project anyway. Mine measures 5.874".
One less piece-of-crap cluttering your machine!!!
P.S. Learn to "burn-in" the two parts for a perfect fit. A technique used on sleeve bearings for precise fitting.
Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I will add them to my list of tricks.
tank you... ik tink a make one off this !
nice vid.. tanks !
gr
Your welcome. Thanks for taking the time to let me know.
great idea....thanks.
Thanks. It is definitely not my original idea. I stole it from Joe Pieczynski, although I did make some changes. I use it all the time and it really works well. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
First of all, THANK YOU for calling it a rule, and not a ruler. This is a great video - I already made one of these tools and honestly it has made a huge impact. Being able to set up a new tool without turning the toolpost is a huge benefit. I'll be modifying mine and adding a flat to it based on this - some good extra benefit to that. Great video, thanks for posting it.
Thanks. I stole this idea from Joe Pieczynski who has a fantastic tutorial style channel. This was one of my very early projects and I still use this tool today.
What a great idea !! ...thank you for sharing
You are so welcome! It originall came from Joe Pieczynski. Check out his channel. He is an amazing resource.
@@DudleyToolwright Ha ..sound like polish last name .i'm from Poland and wee love to "make things " please check my website stanislawcollection.com
..am gonna check Joe Pieczynski right now
Will do. Thanks for the link. Beautiful stuff.
I have made my own tool height gage, but using the rule method (I use a long x-acto blade) works great. Just chuck up a piece of 1/8" round bar and set against that. Very accurate.
Thanks. I always love to hear about the alternatives. Very interesting.
Well done, my next project.
Thanks. It has been a while since I completed this project and I use it often. Thanks for the comment.
I just use a piece of acetal (nylon) in chuck , get tool somewhere near , then just take small facing cuts , too low will leave a pip in the centre, too high will push the centre pip away , then just adjust till tool cuts right too the centre . Acetal / nylon is used as it will not damage insert or HSS end .
Nice approach. I take it that you have the material on hand? Your approach seems very direct and functional. Thanks for the input.
Just take light face cut and will see if your close and adjust till you get no pnub..if its to low you get the nub and if its too high you get more a cone shaped nub..As you can see very light cuts this is the most simple ting that machinist like to make seem more difficult or they have less experience. Once you worked a lathe for a while lining the tool up is not an issue.
What if you are working between centres and need to change tool?
Here is an idea for you. Make a fixture that has dovetails and will sit on the surface plate. Now when you load the tool into the tool holder, you can adjust it exactly to the correct height while the holder is off the lathe.
Not my idea, but i saw it someplace and I thought it was slick.
That is a really interesting idea. Thanks! I will definitely give it some more thought.
That finish! damn...
I really do love shiny metal.
Since I don’t always see videos in order, depending on when I find a channel, I’ve just gotten to this one. I’ve made something similar, except for one difference. I drilled and tapped a hole at the top, and screwed a short flat plate to the top, extending over the edge, so I can have it on top of the tool tip. Then there’s a definite surface to bring the tool tip up to. When it touches, it’s correct. I find that using the light between two surfaces method, I can get it exact each time.
I like your improvement a lot and adding an electronic indicator style circuit to the affair will make it even easier to tell when light contact is made. Thanks for the great idea!
@@DudleyToolwright yup. I was thinking about the electronic circuit too. The only reason I might not do it is that it’s another tool with a battery, I’ve got a lot of digital mics and such. I don’t use them all very often, because of the sizes, and when I do, the battery is often dead. The problem of finding tool height is that with my Dorian, and others, I suppose, is that when you unlock the holder, it moves. Then when you lock it again, it moves. I’ve found that if I press the holder to the front of the dovetail, not the moving side, I can minimize, or eliminate that movement.
Useful tidbits. Thank you very much.
Rule method every time. using it for 45 years
Making inaccurate parts for 45 years
There are lots of wats of getting the the end and I am on the fence as to whether tool height on dead center is really necessary for a good cut (minus the leftover nib).
Great vid!
Thanks. I always really appreciate any constructive comments.
I really liked your video excellent information I am going to make one for myself.
Thanks. I use the one I made quite often and it seems to work quite well.
all that dial gauge stuff and gauge blocks and the final check is your finger! wow
True, but the human finger is very sensitive and can discern 0.001" without too much effort.
you can use a feeler gauge to reset your tool each time you have to leave the lathe and come back. Also a dial indicator stuck to the compound and zeroed on the face of the part before you loosen and remove will get you dead on.
Thanks. I appreciate the insight.
All well and good if you are in ideal conditions with a new lathe. However, I have been a machinist and tool maker for 45 years and worked in many machine shops over the years and not one of them did they have a lathe in presstine condition. You make it work, adjusting the tail stock is the best way. It also depends on diameter, lenght and tool pressure no the work piece.
Thanks for the info. I always appreciate hearing from those with a lot more experience than I have. Much appreciated.
Face the front off, get on the low side of the nipple, raise until nipple just disappears (provides a good visual on accuracy) or use the tail of calipers to measure down a half diameter to top of tool. This works for boring tools as well. I sometimes like to tune the cutting action by running the tool tip high or low a thou or 3. Cant do that with a fixed setting tool. Been using these technique for 30 years and have no problem working within a couple tenths on my Hardinge.
Thanks for the tip. I stole this idea from Joe Pieczynski and it has worked out pretty well for me.
Measure down half the diameter to the tool. Perfect - thanks 👍
I always use the rule method. not like was shown at the start. I don't rub the tools up and down the rules. That looks like it can scratch the rules and also not possible with certain tools. I just rock my rule back and forth standing on the ground flats taking note of the smallest reading I see when doing so.
good for left and right hand tools, bore tools, even when turning brass sometimes I turn the tool upside down and run it in reverse.
Thanks. I will try your method in the future. I appreciate you pointing out places where I can improve along with the solutions. Cheers.
I’ve always centered the tool point to the chuck center. If your work piece is true then your in correct position. Diameter of piece doesn’t change that equation.
Thanks for the tip. I have used this tool now for years and it is working out really well.
Next video should be about the different of cut, finish, and feel of the cutters.
Thanks for the idea. Much appreciated.
put a drop of oil on top of your new tool, take a thin piece of clear plastic or glass and lay it on top with an overhang, start your tooling low and bring it up to the glass until it lifts and you see the oil separate from the glass, then ease the tool back down until you don't see an air bubble under the glass.
just a thought, I feel that would make the process of checking a bunch of tools quicker and easier.
Even more interesting. If get a chance I will try this. This idea seems, at a minimum, extensible. I will stow this in my bag of tricks. Thanks. This idea is going to be useful in more than one way.
dudley toolwright this was my original thought before the magnet idea. a plastic CD case would probably work perfectly, or maybe a microscope slide/ small piece of glass.
seemed like an idea, a nice thin oil with some color to it would work great, I'd imagine two nice flat surfaces and a minimal amount of oil would be a sensitive measurement.
thought of it when you did the old fingernail check, figured this way ensures measuring to the flat of the gauge plus the thickness of the oil layer, instead of guessing at the slight chamfer at the end of the flat.
also the more overhang on the glass the more precise you could measure, provided the glass is nice and flat.
21:56 Here goes a tip/some shop math to help with chamfered holes:
Spot drill depth = 2 times the desired chamfer, plus the final hole dia, divided by 2.
Example - Say you wanted a 0.015" chamfer around that 0.125" hole to start your pin.
[(2 x 0.015") + 0.125"] / 2
[(0.030) + 0.125"] / 2
0.155" / 2
Spot drill depth = 0.0775"
Now if you needed to make a few 0.250" holes and wanted a consistent chamfer for aesthetics, simply get a new Z depth for your spot drill.
[(2 x 0.015") + 0.250"] / 2
[(0.030) + 0.250"] / 2
0.0075" / 2
Spot drill depth = 0.0037"
Now all you holes have the same size chamfer.
Thanks for the helpful tip. I will give your recommendation a shot. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Wow nice information 👌👌
Thanks.
Good video. Enjoyed watching it. One question where did you get the aluminum cutting trigon insert from.The one you used to cut the OD and faces
Kind regards anddsn
Ebay. They were listed as made by Korloy. Here is a quick example link:
www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-WNMG080408-HA-H01-WNMG432-HA-Aluminum-blade-Carbide-Inserts-for-Aluminum/173299612095?hash=item28597639bf:g:UJEAAOSwmdVa6s6r
I, too, use insert tooling- but with a 4 way toolpost. Since the height of inserts does not change, I made packers for each holder, and CAed them to the holder. So now I do not have to consider height- put them in and they are correct. Four to choose from, and two clamps instead of one (on the QC) means that for jobs that need less than eight tool selections my 4 way is actually faster than a QC. I can also part rotate for an angled cut, without losing registration. Not widely understood.
BTW, magnets around machine tools are deprecated. Can cause magnetization, and certainly means forever cleaning off swarf.
For precision (not really needed for this application) mixing materials is an issue- Al thermally expands at a much greater rate.
You made a bunch of really great observations. Thanks.
I might be wrong with this assumption, but I am not worrying about differential expansion, or any expansion for that matter, because I don't think tool height is that critical, as long as you don't rub. I have a portable degausser to get rid of localized magnetization, but I suspect that not everyone does, so good point.
Sub'd.
@@DudleyToolwright Yes, as I said, differential expansion is not an issue with this particular tool, but needs to be kept in mind.
I think you made a good accessory- I was just taking the opportunity to spread a POV. Many users with a 4 way toolpost that came with the lathe will start lusting after a QC- I was one of them. However, it dawned on me that, for insert users, most of the advantages evaporate. Height is not an issue (with a machined pad that is attached to the holder). Indexing is already there for tools whilst they are in the toolpost, only lost if you change them- so do not change the ones that are critical. If you do need to, it is easy to have a registration peg on that pad, so it goes back in the same place every time. Given the price of a good QC and a selection of holders would buy a small lathe, most hobbyists would do well to avoid them. For most small turning jobs, 4ways are actually faster.
I love your solution for the included tool post. I sold mine right after I got the lathe and regretted it. I was definitely not being critical of your recommendations. I welcome them. I watch Curtis (in Australia) use one all of the time to great effect. Thanks again for the tips and ideas.
Alu has large temp coefficient , steel is better because of dimensional consistency. Nice video
That is a good point. Thanks for bringing that up.
Vertical is not good on the rule trick. I use that method but there is a caveat. Experience has shown that having the tool edge slightly below the center line will give a better finish and tool longevity. One bit of caution it is very easy to crack off the edge of the carbide insert this way.
The tool needs to be slightly below or the tool edge will immediately wear. All tools wear eventually. When it wears it becomes flat on the nose. When it becomes flat your finish will deteriorate almost immediately and generate heat witch will wear the tool insert even faster. Tools should be set slightly below center as a practicality. It just depends on what you can get away with. The front clearance angle cannot be above center. With a worn tool it is better to be below.
By the way learn to wring your Gauge Blocks together they are sliding all over the place and your accuracy is less. Wipe them on your wrist and wring them to hold the stack and they don't fall on the floor. If your block surfaces are marred they will not wring. Good blocks will allow you to hold the stack horizontally and they should still be stuck together. I have used good Pratt & Whitney carbide blocks and it is difficult to get the apart some times because of the quality of the surface finish.
With Cheaper block if they will not "wring", you can slightly repair scratches by lapping the blocks with Diamond Lapping Film, 0.50 Micron Sheet, 9 in x 11 in and a little kerosene with the sheet on your surface plate. This will improve the surface but ever so slightly change the block size however with shop grade blocks used for you purpose it makes no difference as these blocks are basically junk anyway.
I really appreciate the tips. Thanks.
Lathes used to have a line scribed on the side of the tail stock body to get close to center line.
Interesting. i have not noticed this on mine, but I will take a look.
Nice tool but i prefer to measure/set hieght from the bottom, butting up to an overhang as as is its down to your finger sensitivity. Butting up to an overhang will lift the tool an is easily sean and you can feel it move even with thick fingers.
Interesting. I am relatively new to this and this approach was the one I saw first. Thanks for the alternative perspective. Every time someone recommends an alternative approach, I learn something. No matter what. Thanks again.
Good
Thanks.
My friend
U are making a very nice video, I suggest by reducing the sound of lathe make it better!
I would love to. my current camera does not support an external microphone, but I intend to upgrade at some point in the not too distant future. Thanks for the feedback.
Dudley Toolwright Actually I like to hear the maschine working. That‘s what you have in a maschine shop!
“Gonna eat my lunch in the shop... gadzooks! all my workbenches are loaded with crap... no room.. “ “I’ve got it! I’ll eat off my lathe!” Well.... IDK?? Don’t wanna get it dirty” “what to do?”
I am actually not a clean freak by any measure, but I really stretched to buy the lathe new, so I wanted to keep it nice for a while.
Love the project, useful too. What tool are you using ? 4140....? I did not catch the supply house name. Many thanks, enjoyed it!
I used 6061 on the bottom and 303 stainless for a bit more abrasion resistance on the top. It has been a while since I made this video, supply house for what?
Great video! What brand and size lathe is this you are working on? Its a nice looking machine.
Thanks. My lathe is an Acra 14". It is more accurate than I am capable of creating.
Very neat tool, I wish I had the other measuring stuff required to make one. I will have to stick with the rule and not be ham fisted on the cross slide :)
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.
If you drill & tap a hole in the top of your gage you can put a top on the gage. Then advance the cross slide so the tool is under the gage. Then adjust the height of the tool so when you slide the height gage back and forth you feel a little drag as you move the gage. Or hold a .001" feeler gage on top of the tool as you raise it. When the feeler stock is tight you are virtually on center. Here is an example; www.pinterest.com/pin/363736107381190698/
Thanks for the great tip! I had not even considered it.
a really nice accessory
but to make it faster you can just use an M4 for through holes (they are pointed), tighten it in the chuck and use it as a center to zero the tools ^^
if you want to use that accessory modify it so that it rests on the X axis slide which is even, not the painted cast iron part of the frame which is not accurate
Thanks for the alternate solution. Appreciate it.
If you wanted to check to see if the part was tapered, you can't do what you did with an indicator. An indicator is only going to show you what you just cut, even if you had your tailstock offset to intentionally cut a taper between centers, it would still indicate true. The most accurate and easiest way to do what you wanted to do would be to measure the diameter at each end of your cut, which is also a good way to check to make sure your tailstock isn't offset ... so you won't cut a taper.
You are very correct. This was one of my first videos and a few others caught this gaff. I really appreciate you taking the time to educate me and others on this error.
I see that you also have the mango 2 handle for the hand debur tool
Also my fav handle
Mine too. Even with the strange name.
@@DudleyToolwright what are you talking about
its a perfect name xD
Nice job. ICould you have used a much shorter length of stainless? Would have been less top heavy then.
Very true. I initially thought the magnet would be so strong that it would easily compensate, so I went for aesthetics. In retrospect, a smaller stainless section would have been a better choice. Thanks for the input.
any kind of gage like this is good because there are lots of times you cannot face off and go to the center. Also I want to say something about tool height. Exact tool hite is not critical at all--different hites give different benefits and effects. you noticed his boring bar was high--exactly as it should have been when he has to adjust it back the next bore he does unless its a big bore. Outside first:--the tool can be on center or better if slightly low--it gives more clearance but less rake. If the tool is a bit low lets say a 2 inch diameter you can easily go .050 low and makes the tool "sharper". If you visualized adjusting way up high then you can picture that the effective clearance becomes less--the tool will cut more like its dull and will leave a more burnished surface. It will push on the work more also--you wont get chatter. If low clearance is more and chatter can appear because its cutting cleaner and not pushing as much on the work. INSIDE BORING--the cutter absolutely should be set above center to inrease the clearance especially because inside boring the material is curving trying to hit on the clearance--which it often does. Suppose a 1.5 bore?--that tool should be at least .020 or so high up to maybe .050 high. The tool will cut much cleaner--the clearance is increased--its cutting "sharper".. However the effect rake is less--rake makes some difference however changing clearance makes a huge difference.. at any rate just trying to explain a tool in most cases does not need to be precisely on center. Obviously in some cases it does--such as parting off and a few other cases.. Running a tool high or low--very definitely should be something all machinists have in the bag of options..
of course on tiny diameters--the effects i stated CHANGE DRAMATICALLY. If you are going tiny like less than .100 SIMPLY PUT THE TOOL ON CENTER..
Thank you very much for your excellent explanation of tool heights and how you may use them. I really appreciate you sharing this content. I think a ton of people who get around to reading the comments will benefit a lot. I know I did.
Noted. Thanks.
After having this height gauge for 18 months, what is your assessment of it? Any changes you would make in a V. 2.0?
Something I considered as I watched you aligning the cutter for the first time, is whether an overhang would make alignment faster.
A piece of material, attached to the top, and squared with your machined flat, would make alignment as easy as running the height of the cutter up, from the bottom side, and locking it in place.
Also, regarding the bottom and the magnet, something I thought about, while watching the video, was whether a concave bottom might be better.
I learned many, many years ago, if I had a cabinet, shelves or anything with a flat bottom, or flat edge, along the bottom, the only way to completely eliminate teeter is to concave the flat bottom, leaving the four corners at the original dimension, effectively creating a 'foot' at each corner.
Making the bottom of a cylinder concave would leave a ring, but there would be less chance for a chunk to cause out of plumb issues, AND potentially make it easier to keep clean. Could easily be done with a lathe.
Very interesting observations. I really like this height gauge and I use it often. I might make the whole thing out of hardenable A2 or something like and maybe have a couple of other shapes on the top flat. Other than that, I like it, and the general idea came from Joe Pieczynski, and he is a pro.
You might want to consider 3 feet rather than 4, as 3 points define a plane - 4 can teeter.
Thanks for the cool observations and suggestions. I like the concavity idea.
On your final length?would it not be possible to do your facing and leave some material in the middle and measure the height compared to what you determine do you need to remove.
I could have. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am amazed how ruthless this audience can be. The previous comments, while being valid points, can be made much less sarcastic. Everyone had to learn at some time. Just sayin'. You have some sweet equipment with that lathe set up for a home shop! I don't know what book you got the idea of reaming after boring from. But that method leaves extra room for errors. Like how accurate is that reamer, how accurate was the reamer measured, is the tail stock in perfect alignment and then some. I am tasked with making stainless steel bushings press fitting them into aluminium, on a regular basis. For the press fits, refer to Machinery's Handbook (THE MACHINIST BIBLE). The standard is .0015 to .002 interference for diameters less than one inch (For example) . Then freeze the bushing prior to installing. This will reduce the steel just long enough for the install. then it will return to its machined size after being pressed in. This would eliminate the need to cross pin.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I need to try some more interference fit projects, especially using your recommended part freezing to increase the temperature difference. I love precision fits. Thanks for pointing out the error. what was going through my mind was that boring would make the hole straight and reaming would give me great finish and precise diameter, but when I read your post I realized the mistake I made. Thanks for the heads up. By the way, I don't mind constructive criticism. I am fairly new at this and I really appreciate all the shared ideas. By and large this community has very few trolls. I consider myself very lucky that anyone even wants to watch my videos at all, let alone comment on them. I am going to give your suggestions a try on an upcoming video.
I soak hardened 17-4 PH in liquid nitrogen (at work} for a minimum of 2 hours. Knowing that method is near impossible for the home shop, Dry Ice is obtainable, just double the cold soak time. I have not tried a freezer like those in the kitchen. I suppose if the parts were left in the coldest spot at least over night, would reduce the size by .0005 or so.
Not sure if you should be making instructional videos or watching them? LOL
I've just started watching Joe's videos. So far about 50 of them. One thing I noticed when watching your video and Joe didn't mention it, is 3 jaws usually aren't that acccurate. Have you checked the run out on your 3 jaw? Hopefully just a couple thousandths. I'm going to make one of these also. As far as a press fit or pinning, you could have heated the aluminum slightly and put the SS in the freezer for a few minutes, it would have slid on and been locked tight due to thermal expansion/contraction. thanks for sharing
I like your ideas. I might steal them for a future iteration. I have used this height gauge since I made it and it has been great, but I have some new ideas...
@@DudleyToolwright I saw this one by Oxtoolco. I like it also czcams.com/video/81ywSwSk_9k/video.html
what lathe do you have? I have a new South Bend 14x40 and the cross slide looks identical. my tailstock isn't blue. just curious thanks.
I have an ARCA 14 Heavy. It has been an outstanding lathe, to someone of my limited experience. I have only used a few different models in my past. Thanks for asking.
Hello, Could one cut a taper with a sharp point in the chuck and measure to that with a parallel across the ways then measure down to the flat way for a measurement without gauge blocks and granite plate? Thanks for a good adjunct to Joe's video. Take care. Doug
That's a really different approach. Thanks for sharing.
I made a height guage years ago, used a piece of 30 x 6 SS flat. to get center machined a point on a round stock in the lathe put flats across the lathe ways to mark the SS flat on the point. Simple. Don't use a magnet a chip on the magnet will put the height out. I don't know why he used so much SS to extend it as it just added top weight, 15 mm is plenty cut the flat down to that.
Great tips, much appreciated.
Keep rubbing that lathe so clean and your gonna be a few thou out of tolerance:)
That was funny and on some level true.
I have a 9”C south bend. If I want to get a quick change tool holder, do I need to measure my tool holder opening and then order it or are they just certain sizes
You buy the tool holders based on the lathe capacity. They are typically good for a certain range of center heights. THere are some recommendations here:
www.aloris.com/aloris_cat/index.html#page/30
My lathe is a 14" model and I could have used BXA, CXA, or CA. I have CXA. I hope this helps.
I have a Boxford CUD II (British development of the South bend 9)
I'm getting an AXA toolpost to mount on it.
I've also built an electric crossfeed system for it, and plan to build an electric main saddle feed as well.
If you look at my video of the crossfeed functioning, please excuse my taste in workshop music...
Great video. Thanks. My new lathe is on a ship as i type, and really looking forward to tuning it up. One question, though. As the work piece puts pressure on the tool it will force it down a bit. wouldn't it then make sense to adjust it a bit higher to compensate? And if so, this would be sensitive to type of material turned and surface speed. I´m a total noob here, so please advice.
What a great question. As I am also a relative noob, I can't answer that for sure. You make a very logical point. I will have to look into this. I really appreciate the comment.
Great. Two noobs talking, hehe. Thanks for the comment though. :-) Let me know if you find something.
Maybe this all boils down to experience. Tool post and shank will also probably make a difference. Have been watching Kieth Fenner and ABomb some, and they both make it seem so easy. I am certain I will destroy something within an hour of the arrival of my Lathe. Lets just hope that it belongs to my neighbour, not my body. This is what I bought, btw. www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-WM210V-38mm-Big-Spindle_60648356533.html
Definitely.
That is very exciting. At least in the pictures the quality seems very good. I hear a lot of very good things about bench top lathes these days. If you want to see what people can do check out Clickspring, the guy is brilliant. Also if you want experts that also can teach well check out Oxtools and Stefan Gotteswinter. Both guys are extremely talented. Joe Pieczynski is another. Here are links to make it easy:
czcams.com/channels/ZC9LGZLfyjrKT4OZne-JNw.html
czcams.com/channels/Y8gSLTqvs38bR9X061jFWw.html
czcams.com/channels/pp6lgdc_XO_FZYJppaFa5w.html
Best of luck on your new adventure. Your only limit is your imagination.
I know that center to cross slide distance is exactly 59.30 mm, so I always use the depth measurement feature of my digital caliper to measure top of cutter to the top of the cross slide and tune the height of the cutter to 59.30 mm. Always spot on.
Am i missing something?
Great tip, thanks. There are definitely many approaches to solve this problem.
This was the comment I was looking for.
you're welcome :-)
thank you for uploading. Joe's video was not as clear as yours. When I saw the stacks of shims the green light went on.
That was very generous of you to say. Joe is one of my teaching favorites. He has an amazing knowledge of the art.
@@DudleyToolwright knowledge and teaching are two different skills
Mic it from one end to the other your carage could run in same path as the cutter did think about it
You are absolutely correct. You point out a fact I completely missed at the time. Thank you.
Que modelo de pastilha é essa q vc usa pra usinar ela deixa um ótimo acabamento
They are positive rake Trigon inserts sort of like WNMG 432.
You found the high spot on that gauge pin with that DI? If the pin is 0.100" off center (exaggerated), then your stack of gauge blocks would also be 0.100" too high. The actual way to do that would be to find the high and the low spots while rotating the chuck. the point half way between them MINUS the radius of the pin is the actual center line of the lathe. The easy way to do that would be to get the high and low readings on the DI and set the zero half way between them.
Example: Lo = 0.000" and Hi = 0.012". The difference is 0.012" and half that is 0.006". Set the low point to -0.006" and check that the high point is at +0.006" and then the DI's zero is the point you want. Match that with your stack of gauge blocks and then subtract the radius of the pin.
Excellent point. This was one of my fisrt videos and did not consider the possibility of run-out in the chuck. Thanks for pointing out a potential flaw in my approach. I stole this idea, by the way from Joe Pieczynski, who has a great channel.
How about using a piece of oil hardened Tool steel, heat treat and grind to proper height assuming you have access to heat treat and grind of course
That would make an awesome height gage, but quite an expensive one. Thanks for the great idea.
@@DudleyToolwright An aluminum gage will work fine if you're careful with it. Might help to cut a small O.D. chamfer on the end which will rest upon the lathe way, because it's easy to ding an edge when setting things in place.
may I ask why you wouldn't cut the bar to final length in the mill and mic it while its in the vise?
Mistake of someone who is fairly new to machining? There are always multiple approaches to solving every problem and I wholly admit that I do not always take the: easiest, best, most efficient, or even good choices. I always love to hear about different approaches to solving problems. Thanks for taking the time to let me know about an alternative.
i'm new to it as well. Addicted to it. Was just curious as to why. Keep up the good videos
I know that this is a pretty 'old' video, but, I have a thought on the amount of time checking, re-chucking, checking again on the length of the part. Why not set up a moderate reach dial indicator on the carriage for the initial measurement versus amount of length to remove? Then, machine length down to within a couple or four mils, THEN check the length? Might have saved a some of the "shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat"...Right?
A possible change in design (to avoid magnet / chips issues) could have been to put 302 stainless ends on BOTH ends. This "could" have avoided the 'top heavy' situation as well AND 302 is definitely SOFTER than your ways on that machine. Correct? Provided it DOES have hardened ways???
One last item, for those who do not yet have a surface plate and height gauge to 'super' accurately check the length...Option 2 (albeit very slow and tedious) remember how the length was originally arrived at? Use that same EXACT technique! Gage pin (or known diameter dowel) in chuck plus a 1/2 pin diameter gauge block. Use your dial indicator to register what your length is just as the original length was determined. Make sense???
Lastly, to 'expand' the resolution of your cutting engagement for facing to length...Use the 60° compound offset to change the advancement adjustment to 1/2 of dial graduation. Or, if you want to do the trigonometry, some other angle to get (say) 4 divisions for 1 actual division advancement. Of course, you STILL have to allow for REQUIRED tool PRESSURE and DEFLECTION in order to properly make a "cut".
Cheers Matey!
Good video!
Ken
This was one of my first videos and projects, but you provided a lot of really useful advise. Thanks for taking the time to help me and others out.
No need to bore after drilling,just ream to size
Thanks for the suggestion. Always appreciated.
@@DudleyToolwright No need to center drill either. A "screw machine length" drill is made to center itself.