High Speed Sync vs Neutral Density Filter | Ask David Bergman
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Today's question from Stacey C. is, “I know that I can use high-speed sync on my flash to get a shallow depth of field, but I’ve also read that a neutral density filter can accomplish the same thing. Why would I use one or the other?”
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#hss #ndfilter #adorama
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00:00 Intro
00:59 What is shallow depth of field?
02:30 Getting shallow depth of field outdoors with flash
06:09 Using high-speed sync (HSS) to get shallow depth of field with flash
07:57 Using a neutral density filter to get shallow depth of field with flash
10:05 Why choose high-speed sync or a neutral density filter?
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THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING! - Jak na to + styl
As usual, great explanation David! I love your approach to explaining topic. Great work!
Another fantastic presentation.
Thank you David
High Speed Sync causes your flash to lose power/output strength the more you raise your shutter speed as well so that's another reason to consider an nd filter.
Excellent lesson David. Thank you. That is gold the way you explain things. I get it.
Thank you so much Adorama and David for another great tutorial! Good luck!
Well, that clears that up. Thanks for the insight.
Thank you David and Stacy.
Great explanation!
Great as always. Thanks.
Other clear lesson in how solve that issue and what you should have in your bag. Incase one might needed best to covered then lacking it on the spot. Adding a battery pack for the flash is handing as well with rechargable batteries is a plus if one care to add it to your camera kit. Well done David
Thank you great explanation of both options
Very informative! 1st time viewer. Subbed!
your tutorials are excellent!
Amazing tutorials. Thank you! (On behalf of many)
Thank you (on behalf of me!).
Thank you so much, that was very helpful.
Super useful thanks so much
Great Video!
Apenas olhando só as informações que colocou em cada foto, já foi o suficiente para entender a diferença e o porque usar "neutral density filter". Muito obrigado!
Very Good demonstration & Nice explanation on how & when HSS Flash as well as ND Filter should be used !
Thanks David for a very nice Video ! 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Well, I learned something new today. I'd never heard of that issue before. That's what I like about this channel. I'm always interested to know more about photography, even though I've been at it for years :)
Thanks for watching! As with any creative endeavor, there's always something new to learn (for me too!).
That’s awesome to know. Great question👌
Now I know I can keep using my yongnuo 😄👌
I think the HSS gets more photographers into the flash photography for outdoor portraits. Once a photographer gets used to balancing ambient light with the flash it doesn't take much to take it to the next level with ND filters for shallow DOF. HSS eats power like there is not tomorrow which could impact on location photoshoots.
The there is hypersync or powersync that will work with older studio strobes that have a light output longer then 1/8000 of a second. Cactus triggers allow this as well as other brands. I can use my manual 1500w/s battery operated Speedotron 1500 Explorer. Or 1200 and 2400w/s studio packs at 1/8000 sec with my Pentax K1mii.
Keep up the great work Dave.
Yes there are some other technologies out there to help, but these are the two most widely adopted techniques. Thanks for watching!
Another great video!
however, your explanation on sync speed was a little confusing when you said if the flash is on longer, then part of your image will be cut off.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your camera's flash sync speed is determined by the shortest amount of time the sensor can be fully exposed from the first curtain opening before the second curtain has to start closing. If that number is 250th of a second, when you move to 320th of a second, before the first curtain can fully expose the sensor, the second curtain starts to close, which is why you get a black bar towards the bottom of the photo.
That is why HSS strobes, so that when you are at 1/4000 of a second and there's only a sliver of the sensor being exposed between the two curtains moving across, you get a consistent exposure.
Like I said, I oversimplify the tech a bit to make it easier to understand. I don’t need to get into flash duration and t.1 vs t.5 times etc. It’s not needed for this particular discussion.
Been kind of deciding between getting a flash with HSS, or an ND filter. As I’m doing a lot of video lately as well, will probably get the ND filter, as it will be extremely useful for that as well.
with a 300+ w strobe, and 3 to 5 stop neutral density filter, you can cut the ambient light , without using HSS thus maintaining your strobe power, and still lighting the subject with enough power. i will add , that please purchase a ND filter of quality, FREEWELL or other high rated brand. don't use the "free" ones that come in packages when you purchase a lens. you will get crisper cleaner image with high quality ND glass versus the "softer" image of the lesser filters. yes, it does make a difference.
Thanks for the information. As an amateur photographer in the Chicago area, I believe you were spot on to blur the background that featured Craig Krenzel. :)
Hah - and I went to the U of Miami so not a big OSU fan. Although those Krenzel pics made more me than a few dollars. :)
Good info in the video, but I agree with David Flores... focusing is usually a big issue with the ND filters. I bought a set of HQ filters and binned them. Shooting at wide open or near wide open apertures is a huge problem when using the higher # NDs. Another problem is they can often introduce a color cast.
Thank you
Shooting in HSS also tends to Overheat the flash faster. Many flashed only allow a certain amount of flashes in HSS before the go into thermal protection.
And a Heavy ND filter can cause you to lose good auto focus on some cameras.
It overheats faster because it has to use more power to get the same amount of light.
Also focusing through a heavy ND is a pain on a DSLR
If it is, your ND is too strong, or the environment is too dark..
Live view on my nikon 500 word for focus. Mirror out of the way?
Mirrorless cameras make it much easier
I use the ND filter. The power output and color of my Godox flashes take a dump in HSS. Other flash brands may fair better.
No more HSS issues. I Just got from B&H my ND, 3-Stop B+W 77mm MRC 103M Filter for my Nikon Z6II and Z 24-120mm F/4 S lens and Godox V860II flash. Now my outdoor portrait photos are coming out well exposed at F4, 1/200s, ISO 100 with the flash at full power attached to the camera's hot shoe. At the same time this ND filter reduces the extreme backlight behind the subject
I have spent my budget getting better lens'.
"I own a Nikon D 5300. This camera does not have High-speed sync. I add the ND to the lens to get the 2.8 aperture I need depending on the light outside. This of course lets me use the flash or flashes I see fit.
An ND filter does dim sunlight but does not correct harsh lighting conditions. Always bring a large diffuser to even out shadows etc
I stopped using those step down rings because they can't be used in combination with a lens hood. In my opinion, shooting without a lens hood almost always causes at least some loss of contrast, and weird reflections when ambient light hits the exposed filter glass. It's much worse with shorter lenses.
Always a great video.. but the fact you had Craig Krenzel makes it even better .. #gobucks
As you said, there are a lot of speedlites with hss capability. Some by camera manufacturers and some by third party.
The entry level cameras such as Nikon’s 3000 series are incapable of hss even if you have a flash that does. Nothing in the canera’s menu and nothing on the manufacturer’s website.
This is where the ND filters come in, and is an alternative for those systems that don’t.
Simply answer to this problem is get a Godox flash with li-ion battery. HSS built in and newer Godox flashes have all the features you need in a flash including remote triggering.
6 steps ND filter will do the trick, let me explain, by sunny16 rule (F16, S 1/100, ISO100) you can move from F16 to F2.8, that is 5 stops there and you change shutter speed to 1/200. that will result F2.8, S 1/200, ISO100. Or if you want shallower DoF you can use F2, S 1/200 and ISO200.
I sometimes use a Godox V100 with an ND filter on my Nikon D5 for outdoor portraits…amazing results.
Great lesson. So with high-speed sync or an ND filter, I don't need an expensive leaf shutter lens or to replace my camera with the new Sony Sony a9 III (which breaks ground with the new global shutter and can sync up to 1/80,000th of a second). Yay.
With ND filters it's another piece of glass between the subject and the sensor, this can effect the sharpness of the image. There may also be some color cast from the ND filters especially cheaper ones. All in all great question and great response Dave 👍👍
phynx2006 this is why you don’t skimp on your NDs.
With ND filter shooting directly in to the sun, there will likely be glare in your image, causing a possible color cast or the image to appear washed out :(
Depends on the quality of the filter. Non variable filters are generally better quality but there’s always a trade off when adding another piece of glass to your lens.
💥 Always the greatest content. As you move the shutter speed higher above the native sync speed does the light lose more power? I’m thinking of buying a 3 stop ND so that I don’t have to crank my shutter speed too high above the sync speed and I’m hoping that will save me on flash power.
Longer lenses have shallower dof so could you move back and zoom in? I'm thinking a macro zoom might work in the studio if you had one
I have a flashpoint Evolv 200 and a round head attachment and it does not fit inside the V1/AD100Pro adapter for the Angler Fastbox. Do you have any idea why mine doesn’t fit? I bought the Fastbox hoping I could use evolv 200 with the extension head but the round head attachment clearly doesn’t fit. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Omg! I just said, “This guy is my hero!” I actually UNDERSTAND a new concept after a you tube video. This never happens! Thank you David! I have the new r6 but do not have a godox or other hss flash. Can I stick with a normal off camera flash, using hss settings? And it’s good to stay on manual right?
If your flash cannot do HSS you WILL need an ND filter to darken the ambient light to where you need it (if you want to use wider apertures), keeping your camera within its flash sync speed. So there would be no need for super fast shutter speeds such as 1/4000. The ND filter allows you to stay within your flash sync speed thereby allowing you to use the full range of power your flash has to offer. With HSS your flash is being robbed of quite a lot of power (and for typical speedlights that don't have that much power to begin with, that's a huge deal).
To summarize, my takeaway from this is: inside: HSS; outside, ND, or Variable ND.
Probably smart in most cases but of course there are always exceptions. :)
There's not really a cooked-up recipe. It really all depends on what kind of situation you are, and (What your client wants) At the end of the day...(Planing Ahead).
IMO this method works really well on mirrorless systems. Camera has a tough time focusing with ND's on Canon cameras, being that it still utilizes the mirror. For Canon users I will say plan your shoots, early morning shoots whenever possible or later in the evening around golden hour. This will yield better results for us Canon operators.
Maybe you could try focusing the shot. Then attach the ND filter. For landscape this works pretty good.
Is HSS better the slower ur ss is from 1/8000? For example, if my ambient is too bright for a common sync speed of 1/200, but I only need a ss of 1/800 for a good ambient exposure. Would HSS perform better at 1/800 than 1/8000?
Are the guide numbers indexed off of ISO 100?
When I use HSS flash mount on my camera. it burnt the flash circuitry of the camera and it cost me a huge amount to repair the camera. So, I think HSS with off camera flash wil be safe to use.
Dave, are you going to Imaging USA in January?
Thats exactly what i was wandering
Very informative video...
but can nd filter cause any kind of image softness.
Or reduce that shine flash look???
Love adorama ❤️ love David's show❤️
Thanks! A low quality ND can cause a slight color shift and a variable ND dialed all the way can give a weird “X” pattern.
High Speed Sync Mode changes often the Color-Temperatur of your Flash...
Great explanation David. Isn't HSS also hard on your strobes or Speedlights? Does it not wear on them more by using that pulse?
Hmmm, good question. But even if there was a slight difference, it wouldn't be a reason for me to not use it when needed. Like I said, if you make this type of image ALL the time, then might be smarter to just use a ND and be done with it.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto Agreed. Better than possibly burning out your strobes.
Brad MacMillan there is no data to support either conclusion.
is there some banding on the doll at 7:26 ?
Buy a spare battery instead of using ND filter. Also difficult to focus using ND filters.
Marcus Murray not sure what camera you are using hat I have no issues.
@@Lucy-dk5cz can you focus thru ND1000?
HSS for sure, ND's are for other creative approaches.
There is another way to mess with shutter speeds and apertures.
Some cameras such as my Nikon D70 can synch strobes at speeds up to 1/8,000th.
Remember the old saying: aperture for flash and shutter speed for ambient.
So once we set the correct aperture for the flash output, we can adjust the Nikon D70's shutter speed to make the background as dark as we want.
The traditional max sync speed for the D70 is 1/500 second. While I’ve never used it myself, the camera has a hybrid mechanic / electronic shutter that allows faster sync speeds with non-Nikon flashes. However, I’m pretty sure it works similar to HSS in that you still lose power by using that technique.
1/8000s speed sync ? no way !
or get a leaf shutter camera. #LX100 #Fuji #MediumFormat
I own ad200 strobe how mach nd filter power blocking i need .. coz at full power with 2500 shatter speed its not enough power ?
ahmed omara it’s hard to say without knowing when and where you shoot. Easy solution, go outside when you would normally take a portrait and figure out what shutter speed you would set to expose the background to how you like it. Now calculates the number of stops of light between that number and your cameras max sync speed. There you go, that’s the strength of the ND you need.
Another way to go than a variable ND, since many have quality issues, is a set of .3, .6, .9 AND a polarizer, which is good for an additional 2 stops. Stack them all if need be.
VND filters are great, but using them with most lens hoods can be maddening.
True!
How to get it in nigeria
High speed sync drains the batteries of your flash.
High blink
My camera doesn't supporn high speed sync
this is like the age old question lol
Great video, with a variable neutral density filter's there is usually a color cast does that happen with Syrp filters? And if so which color.
I haven't seen it with the SYRP I have, but haven't tested it against a color checker. I do avoid going all the way to 8 stops because I get the very common "X" pattern sometimes seen on variable ND filters when dialed down all the way,. But between 1-6.5 or so it's perfect for my use.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto Thanks for mentioning this. I've seen that X effect even at 3-4 stops especially with short lenses and never knew what causes it, or how to eliminate it. I assumed it was ambient polarized light coming in from somewhere. Maybe high end variable ND filters are built better today than they were years ago and don't exhibit that effect as much. Wondering if you trust variable ND filters with autofocus? I'm guessing it works fine with Canon's dual pixel autofocus, but not so much with phase AF points.
the difference is the characteristic of the light source. when using nd filter for the same effect, you are bound to the characteristics of the ambient light at those conditions. however, when using hss for the same effect, you can use modifiers for your flash to change the characteristics. hss gives you more control, but you might not need to control that much in every situation. for example, in this video, nd filter photo is more flattering, because the room ambient light is already soft, on the other hand, hss photo has harsh light because of the unmodified (or not modified enough, or not modified properly) speedlight. you can modify the flash to your heart's desire, but also you may need to modify it while the other option might be simpler and require no additional work. it has more control, but sometimes it also needs more work. that changes due to the situation, and to the photographer's intention about light in the scene.
Deniz Kendirci this makes no sense. HSS is not you can still shape your light with modifiers. If anything, using ND gives you greater control of the light as there is less variation in colour. I think you misunderstood the video. It’s not HSS vs ND filters but rather HSS vs ND filters to reduce shutter speed under max sync speed and using regular flash.
This doesn't make sense. There's a 5 stop difference in shutter speed between the two examples but only a 3 stop difference in the flash power. The ND ate more light.
You forgot to mention that once you put an ND filter on, you will need to compensate with your flash which means that the flash will drain more battery, in particular when you use 6 stop ND filter. Sometimes you will notice that it is not powerful enough.
I would rather make a real world comparison in terms of flash power output and battery drainage between HSS and ND filters.
If the point of using an ND is to open up your aperture, then you actually won’t be losing power on your flash. For example, if your background looks how it want it without an ND at 100 ISO, 1/250, and f/16, you’d need a lot of flash power to get to f/16 on your subject. Add a 5-stop ND and you can shoot your background at f/2.8 without changing ISO or SS. So all you need your flash to do now is get to 2.8, saving 5 stops of power. You’re essentially darkening the ambient so that your flash doesn’t have to work as hard. Make sense?
@@DavidBergmanPhoto So I still need a lot of flash power with the nd filter. The question is how it compares to hss when using the same iso and f2.8 or in other words what setting will output more light?
I'm planning to test it...
Yuri Peress you clearly don’t understand. When using HSS your strobe is less efficient than not using HSS. The ND filter counter acts the extra light that enters the lens that you normally compensate by upping your shutter speed. With the ND filter on you can use your strobe without HSS and thus it is more efficient. In Godox terms, an AD200 can produce the results of an AD600 using HSS.....
@@yuriperess4828 I think you’re not quite understanding and you’ll see when you test it. You actually don’t lose power when using an ND because you will open up your aperture. Aperture effects flash exposure but shutter speed does not. 2.8 is 2.8 whether you have an ND on or not. So, in essence, the ND only darkens the ambient without affecting your flash power.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto when I shoot at f1.4 at iso 100 in need to set the shutter speed to 2000 and up to get certain ambient light, and if I need to use a flash I must set the hss (Option 1). However, when I put on the 6 stop ND filter, I get to the shutter speed of below 250 (at f1.4 and iso 100 for the same ambient light) and can utilise the full power of flash without using the hss setting (Option 2).
My question is what will light the object better when I set the flash to the full power output with Option 1 or with Option 2?
I hope that it clarifies my question 😀
David, great video - thanx a lot. But why did you put so high hss to 1/8000 and flash 1/16?
You're the pro and I'm just an amateur, but it simply isn't true that you need an expensive wide aperture lens to get smooth bokeh....I can get nice background blur all day long shooting with an inexpensive kit lens at f/5.6....It's a function of focal length and distance between subject to background....
well, as long as your background is waaaaaay off in the distance, then sure, 5.6 can work. But to act as tho there's no difference in degree of background blur based on f is a joke. I started with several "kit" lenses when beginning, and I'm fully aware of what is possible using them. But there's absolutely a difference between shooting at f1.4 and 5.6, not even close. And again, if you choose to have a mountain landscape as your background then sure, go ahead and use 5.6. But if you're like many portrait shoots, your typical background distance is likely much much closer. He is the pro, and his advice is sound.
Of course it’s possible to get decent bokeh with a kit lens. I actually did a video about exactly that: czcams.com/video/OdIfB3Aml9A/video.html
However, as the other poster said, having a wider aperture available to you can give an even more dramatic look.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto 10x better for 10x the $?.....I actually find shallow depth of field a drawback at times because in a closeup portrait it is distracting to have the eyes in focus and the ears out of focus, and when I'm shooting anything close, physics is giving me a shallow depth of field anyway, so I'm more inclined to stop down to get more of the subject sharp....Just my 2c.....Cheers!
Kevin Lane TBH I find shallow DoF portraits over used, why take shots on location if there is no personality to the location and it could have been shot anywhere,s
Question relative to speedlight power with ND filter. Normal speedlight is not powerful enough to over power the sun, so my concern is how to use speedlight to get the maximum brightness on the final photo. The ND filter reduces light not only from the sun but equally from the speedlight, so in bright light condition, with ND filter I can sure stay in flash sync range so I can use the full power output of the speedlight, but this full power is at the same time reduced by the number of stops of the ND filter when reaching the sensor. If I'm correct, there might be in the power output curve depending on the ambiante light level, some point where HSS gives more power than ND filter does, ans vis versa ? So my question is, given a bright light condition, how I can know which one of HSS or ND will give me the brightest speedlight result, except by trial and error?
good tutorial====but this could have been explained in 4 minutes
Vinodjain 00001 agreed but by reading the comments most people still confused AF
David, excellent video except that bringing in a mannequin in place of Erika or Julianna; ""common man , what has DeBlasio done to you?. Time to bring you back to Miami................!!
Haha - hopefully I'll be able to get real models in front of my lens soon!
Your model looks detached, not much in the photoshoot...
Eduardo de Regules she was a stiff model for sure