Hill Climb Challenge | Does Crank Length Matter?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- The mountain bike industry is hearing a lot about crank length all of a sudden! What is it and why exactly does it matter? Rich and Blake are taking to the hills to explain why it might be beneficial to consider your crank length, not only as an offshoot of ergonomics but as E-bike riders who want to keep cranks turning and wheels spinning up some of the most technical terrain.
In association with 5Dev Components: gmbn.tech/5Dev
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
01:07 - The Bikes We're Using
02:36 - The Hillclimb Course
03:31 - The Hillclimb - Stock 165mm Cranks
05:03 - Why Would You Want To Change Crank Length?
07:52 - The Hillclimb - 155mm Cranks
10:14 - Did We Feel The Difference?
12:13 - Are Shorter Cranks Always Better?
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I need more Ebike Blake in my life.
Blake is secretly one of us! 🤫
I've been experimenting with shorter and longer crank lengths for the better part of five years. That's when I starting ebiking. For me, I found that 155mm cranks provided the best benefits, as compared to the standard 165mm on ebikes. I now have a higher cadence, which all of my ebike motors seem to enjoy (read: greater efficiency). Less knee strain and muscle fatigue, possibly because the leg stroke is shorter. And way less pedal strikes. However, I also reduced my chainring down to a 32T, from a 34T. I tried a 30T and 36T, but 32T felt the best for me. The important thing to take away from this is that, we are all built differently. We use different grips, handlebars, stems, frames, etc. Why not crank lengths?
Having 2 dodgy knees including one replacement, it was sometimes a struggle getting over the top of the pedal stroke due to the reduced knee flex. Combined with moving my foot more central on the pedal, 150mm cranks have helped enormously.
This reminds me of car engines: longer connecting rods= more torque but lower revolutions per minute. Shorter rods= less torque but higher RPMs.
Nothing worse than a full power pedal strike on a technical climb section. Short Cranks on eBikes just makes sense! 💥💥💥
Yup. Too bad few can afford your products
@@islandaerial3414 i've spent years yelling at Porsche about their pricing. They still haven't made a $20,000.00 GT3. 🤑😂
I like the advertising aspect of this, but in reality in genuinely comes down to riders ability and technique. I can understand shorter cranks for poorer riders without learning the technique.
Ive done this one pedal strike on my Spectral ON, in boost mode cranking hard on pedals...........the bike stopped instantly I landed a ways down the trail, sailed over the bars luckily landing in between rocks. Bruised both wrists, left hip, left shoulder, stuck thorns full depth in my hip.....E bikes can really strike hard.....15mm is 5/8 inch so 150 cranks might be the thing if you have 165 cranks now.....................................these cranks in video are like 450.00 or so. There ARE way cheaper crank arms out there.
These are boutique crank arms at that price.
I've been running 160mm cranks for about Three years now and I love it. Pedal strikes reduced to almost none, fatigue reduced by a lot, climbing much easier due to spinning up hill rather than powering up hill. So many benefits, never going back to longer cranks.
That's great to hear! Sounds like you've got the perfect length for you.
i changed from 170 to 160 and i am super happy. it helps on roots, rockgardens and it keep the cadence high which is good for better motor support. beside that i can power pedal through corners where i cant before
It is surprising to me that 10mm (about 3/8" for us Americans) would have that much difference. Wonder how much of the perceived improvement is psychological?
With 2 knee replacements, this 62 y/o riding a both a full and mid-power eMTBs, I'll take any advantage to keep me on two wheels for a long time, so I found this (as well as the comments) valuable (and entertaining as always)
Riding all sorts of cranks lengths, MTBs and E-MTBs, it ABSOLUTELY makes a difference the more technical the rocky terrain is. Crazy but true; 10mm equates to dozens and dozens of less pedal strikes per ride!! And, some of those pedal strikes can be fatal to forward motion and even, less jarring to joints when a real basher jolts your cadence!! End of line.
I’ve tried 155, 160 & 165
155 least pedal strikes, best spin cadence on flat to medium climbs. Steep climbs and acceleration were much harder
160 pedal strikes and compromises.
165 a few more pedal strikes, ok spin, but most power while accelerating and steeper climbs much improved.
As an aggressive rider I really liked the 165, but 160 is probably the best compromise. 🤷🏻
I’ve been riding the 5DEV 155mm on my Bullit for about 4 months and 6 months with other crank arms @155. I have reduced strikes by approximately 75% and will never look back. That being said, on a full 29er, I’m staying @165. The MX in the back is low and hence the shorter arms are so much more comfortable, as I never thought 10mm could have so much impact in every aspect since I changed. Hope this helps ya. 🤘🏼
Regardless of crank size, there's a real art in knowing when to use the overrun from the motor to get up or over obstacles with level pedals and get back in the power.
Personally, I don't like overrun at all. It's not natural. Wish manuf's would allow it to be disabled in the app.
@@vashon100 It helps with technical, almost trials like climbs. I couldn't do without it now.
@@Dannyjones1 I understand. An option of on or off would be great for both of us.
I’ve been running 155 on both my ebike and regular bike. Almost no more pedal strikes totally love them.
Blake slipping in the background twice at 3:05 & 3:15... hilarious 😂
avoiding pedal strikes is more a bout technique than crank length......but there is a slightly different form of pedal strike that is more difficult to guage, and that is when the pedal hits a rock to the side of your chosen line because of bike lean. The strike is on the dge of the pedal rather than beneath the platform. I put Hope 155m cranks on my Whyte E180 RS and it completely resolved that issue. I found another difference which surprised me. Accelerating the bike from a standstill, especially a deliberate momentary pause on a technical climb, is so much easier because it is easier to push the cranks past 12 oclock. That effect is even more noticeable if you climb with the saddle partially slammed.
Been running shortened cranks on my Rocky Mountain Powerplay 2023 for close to 2years now. Shortened the oem cranks from 170 to 148. Very happy about everything about it. Seems like the Dyname gen4 motor likes the higher cadence. Probably a good thing for avoiding motors to overheat in higher temps. I also think it’s good for the drive chain as it lessens the use of smaller cogs that tends to wear out before the larger ones.
Good to see the test. I have been thinking about changing mine and may does now. Thanks.
Let us know how it goes! 🤙
Awesome comments around assistance with medical pre-condictions. From an arthritis perspective it helped, interesting to other perspectives too. Really useful comnents and perspectives 👍 ⛄
Great vid and love my local Mendips, interesting as a I have just bought some 155 to replace my 170 can’t wait to try them.
After the first few rides on my Orbea Wild at 160mm crank length, just going down to 155mm cranks gave me waaaayyy less pedal strikes. Absolutely worth it, imo!
Higher tyre pressure up front!? The MTB World has gone nuts!!
Yeah, was scratching my head as well. I'm assuming a heavier carcass in the back.
My wife has been using 145mm cranks since 2018. I've been using 150mm and 155mm cranks for just as long. What did we know 5 years ago 😂 ..I actually cut my wife's 175mm down and tapped new threads in early 2018😊 You can pedal with the bike leaning over and your body doesn't wobble around as much. But what would we know.
E=Mtb² "Downhill both ways "
I’ve been running 150mm cranks on my Orbea Rise for 2 years and rock strikes have become a thing of the past.
Where I live and ride, rocks rule the day, pedal strikes can also rule the day. To the point where I run the suspension firmer than it should be ran. A person can only slam so many rocks, so hard. Finding the crank set is the thing, for EP8 anyway shorter crank arms can be hard to come by.
So yeah shorter crank arms are in my future. 150mm sounds good.
I found some shimano 160mm for the EP8 on ebay pretty cheap.
I run 160mm on all my ebikes it makes a huge difference in rocky terrain and feels better downhill with your feet closer together for sure. I mostly ride mullets and it is very noticeable how different height your bb is whether its a 27.5x2.4 or 27.5x2.6 rear. 2.8 gives crazy nice pedal clearance but not all ebikes can fit it and it feels a bit odd off jumps.
I've been loving 155s on my analogue bike - can only imagine it'd be even better on an EMTB where the pedal assist would help keep pedalling all the way through tricky sections 👍
160 is the magic number for me 🥳🎄✌🏼❤️🍻
While 5Dev cranks are quite Bougie..(and priced accordingly) There are other much more affordable quality E-Bike cranks. @E*Thirteen makes much more affordable E-Bike cranks (like $100 instead of $500)for all e-bike motor configuration. I am currently running their 155mm on my Giant Reign E2 and they are a huge improvement over the 160's it came with.
They aren't the cheapest on the market, but the quality and finish of them are great! E*Thirteen is a good affordable alternative as well as Hope 🤘
just bought a whyte e160 mx and fitted hope 155 crank arms feels much better 🙂🙂🙂
For all those techie sections you just need to keep the pedals horizontal for max clearance and use a throttle ..way easier 😉😛
Really enjoyed (especially as I ride there) and learned from this, thanks. Why did you not try the 145 and 135 cranks though? I want to hear your opinions of these... Regards, darth.
Both my ebikes are 150mm miranda's. Specialized enduro are 170mm.
@embn what make are those jackets, can’t find anything like them online???
bike came with 175mm. did a leg measurement changed to 170mm after prodding by the pedal strike mob changed to 165 mm, 1 week 100km later hated the faster cadence went back to 170mm. shorter cranks are not recommended. base the crank length on your body dimensions.
ripped pedal out the crank on my spectral:on, fast stump strike and a huge off.... went shorter cranks, only 5mm and its night and day to the good!
I ran 155s on my first ever bike and it reduced pedal strikes by 90% I’d say. That was on a levo where I made it 180mm travel ip front and 165mm travel in the rear with an over stroked shock and cascade link. Now on my kenevo expert I use the stock 160s with 200 travel fork and 187 travel out back. Same amount of of pedal strikes it seems. I am guess I sit higher on my kenevo compare to my levo even with 30% sag roughly. It’s an interesting topic that could be discussed further. But the 155 was definitely easier on my knee!
It could be due to bottom bracket clearance (the distance from the BB to the ground when at 30% sag usually). These tend to vary from bike to bike, I'm not sure the numbers for your two bikes but it could be worth a look and doing the maths. 🧮
@@embn I forgot in my post that now I run 160mm cranks lol! With all that stuff kept in mind
As a pretty decent tech climber, I can't understand why they're sat down for the whole time and pedaling like a maniac!😂
Hunting for grip! That mud dragged onto polished limestone is a traction killer. Probably also the reason for lower rear pressure to find traction. I know that area,when the limestone tracks are damp (some are thousands of years old!), they're like glass 😬😬😬
Paid £44 for a pair of miranda 155 cranks for my ebike and find them excellent on rough terrain no more pedal strikes, i looked at hope cranks and these on the video but £42 for a pair of good quality crank arms i couldnt justify the higher price of the others
I’m riding a Nukeproof Mega with 30% Sag. I hit the ground more often than on my previous bike, a propain tyee with 28% Sag. Swapt the parts over and now thinking about shorter cranks. 165s i guess
Give it a go! If you're frequently hitting you pedals on the ground, shorter cranks will help with that 🤘
@@embn already have my eyes on hope evo cranks😁🤪
A sort crank makes you reach a high cadence more easily.
Its a diferent kind of effort, more heart rate than muscle effort from your legs
The trend is to avoid pedal strikes due to low BBs. LLS bikes lower the rider's mass for more stability, but sacrifice pedal clearance. It is that simple. Shorter cranks means more spinning in most situations going up and on the pedally sections. The distance between your feet at a neutral (9 and 3 o'clock)pedal position has both pros and cons. The closer your feet are may give more boost in a jump but it is a less stable platform for impacts and chunky sections. Would you jump and land with feet close together or further apart, if you wanted to stay on your feet???
Um, well. Ive ridden and raced dirtbikes all my life, and having feet directly across from each other works really well.
I cant see why having feet closer together would be a bother on EMTB's.
@@bradsanders6954 I don't ride ebikes, and this is about crank length. Do you get pedal kick back on dirt bikes? How much travel is on your dirt bikes? Coil spring w oil soak?
You are not talking about a different ball park. You are talking a different sport. Why did they even test this on ebikes to get an accurate result about crank length? Why not get to the basics of human physiology to determine the best crank length? The bike is a tool to amplify a rider's ability.
@@petedog9581 Take a chill pill.
@@bradsanders6954 Um, well. Maybe you should not comment if you get easily butt- hurt.
@@petedog9581 "chill pill " there is life beyond the internet, branch out, make friends in real life.
Can you please explain why Both of you are Running more psi in the Front tire? Is it because of the muddy conditions? Always tought less in the front is better for grip
Less pressure in the rear = more surface area in contact with the ground for grip when pedaling, particularly on loose or slippy surfaces.
According to ALL the gals I've dated..... Crank length is not what matters guys!!
Its more the girth.
Why are you both running more pressure in the front tyre?
I always thought it was a skill when climbing and timing your pedal strokes so you don't tag the pedal on a rock. Got to use that momentum/speed to move around up and over things. I think if people practiced more on a regular bike and gained more skill from it than hop back to an E bike you might be surprised at your efficiency weather you have shorter cranks or not. Than use that motor to you advantage :)
I hope in the near future there will be a company that will make shorter cranks for Shimano. 5-DeV can be installed on Shimano, but as I understand it, you need a special bracket.
Try Pinnd cranks
There are others, but so far I havent found what I wanted for my EP8 bike. 5-DEV is way pricey, but very attractive.
ps....Whyte E160 RSX is 160mm front and 155mm rear.
With longer on a fully I get to the ground sooner, which is not nice.
Just install a wireless adjustable crank arms.
We will pitch it the Blake! (the inventor)
Dude, you don’t get to woop about clearing a climb if you have to go totally off-trail to do it. Come onnnn! 😂
You can buy shorter cranks fairly cheaply from sellers of unicycle parts.
This may be true but are they rated for mountain bikes? I'd like to see someone riding some tech trails on a unicycle though 👀
On bmx 160 is better than 170 because of shorter cs and pegs but went to 23t/9t gearing
Geometron have been selling shorter cranks for years for ground clearance.
Shorter cranks equals less torque from the rider surely? Torque = fxd I wouldn’t mind trying some to see if there is a benefit as I am sceptical.
There is less leverage for sure! But there have been studies on analogue bikes that have proven having the right-sized crank rather than the longest cranks can help you put down more power for longer periods of time!
155 for me 💯 e-bike climbing
Whoever is doeing the music for the epic montage... GIVE THAT MAN A RAISE!!!
Coming soon to emtb - the pros and cons of oval rings?? - Short cranks are a proven win for ground clearance for for the roadies/tt get lower and more aero and no power loss
Shorter crank gives more power? does this guy know what leverage is?
Torque = Force X Length,
Power = Force X RPM = Force X Length X RPM
With the same RPM (cadence) you will produce more power with longer cranks.
I run 210 mm cranks.
My hill climb times are 10% quicker with 210 mm vs 175 mm cranks..
U must be 7 ft tall?
[Insert appropriate hashtags here]
whya dooz Blake talk like theez right heeya....??
Shorter, but Shimano does not make them!
Search and search, there are makers doing shorter cranks for EP8, I found some for 99.00 but havent pulled the trigger yet on them. I just google searched and found 150's for EP8.
“Just Imagine going even shorter” motorbikes have zero and a throttle. I’m to tall to think about this on a bicycle
Could be interesting on a downhill rig! 👀
I can get the pedal down heeaar.
Too much money for little benefit. Improve technique, line choice, ratchet/half-pedaling, etc. and you'll be much better off.
That depends, on if local trails are very narrow, and almost all rocks, constant planted rocks that dont move.
How much ratchet pedaling can one really do? Other trail systems I barely hit pedals if at all.
Its not that I like riding in rocks, its just what we have here.
It’s just something the Marketing idiots came up with to help you spend your money. A centimeter? Seriously? It’s BS
On an e bike no.. Due to the torque being provided by the motor.
But the motor will have to put in more effort....
@@SimonGreenwaythe motor works at a fixed torque so it isn't putting more effort in. The rider will be increasing the effort they put in.
Sag matters just as much on E bikes, less sag = less pedal strikes.
Maybe your commenting on shorter cranks not mattering so much on E bikes, I tend to think it works that way.
@@lookwhotalkin but something's got to give. So if rider put in same effort and so did motor, power at the wheel will be reduced...
I'm really gonna notice a 5mm difference in my crank length @ $100 per mm. Eff off.
Must be nice to install $2000 worth of wheels on your new bikes. Yikes!
Embn videos are more marketing pieces than informative... i'm done!