Update: Bought a dealer test drive MME, Cali Route One, because of the ERB and RWD. We were having a Generex 22KWt generator installed and the crew of two really liked the MME. So while the outside guy was setting up the generator the electrician was just sitting around waiting. He asked how I planned to charge the vehicle and I said I'll have to call someone like him to set it up. He said if you get a 40 amp breaker, since that was all that was left on the breaker box, and we didn't want to go higher, he would put it in for $50. I remembered you, and others, saying installs were $600 or higher. I told him I would pay $200! Needless to say it was a WIN-WIN!
Thank you for this video. I bought the CP Home Flex and I absolutely love it. I had it hardwire installed by an electrician last year to a 60 amp fuse. I'm getting over 11kw to charge my Mach-E on a daily basis. So glad you pointed out that it keeps your charging history. I use that for my budget. Great to see how much I'm spending on charging.
Awesome info, thank you! It's nice to know you can keep track of what you are charging and how much it is. I will probably install one at my girlfriend's house so it will be nice to know how much I should pay her back etc.
Thank you. I'm waiting impatiently for my Mach E to actually get here. Meanwhile I'm concerned about learning what I need to know about charging. The garage is ready to go but we are planning our first road trip in August. Somewhere along the line I need to figure how to ensure my wife understands what she needs to know.
We'll try to do a new "Road Trip Essentials" video to help out. Any of our road trip videos show how it can be pretty easy and shows the steps involved in mapping a route with charging stops and charging details. czcams.com/video/5_AT1jIEqEs/video.html
Patrick! What a well done and very informative video on charging the Ford Mach-E! Owner's need this info! Even though I own a Tesla Model Y Performance, I'm glad other manufacturers are producing EV's to help reduce fossil fuel emissions! Tell Liv I said Hi from the Ocean State! We're an *EV Family!*
I use the Ford suppled 32amp 14-40 50 amp charger occasionally. I had a 16amp 240v charger when I had a Ford Focus electric. If I only need to top-off over night I use the 16amp. Ten/12 miles per hour will add a 100 miles in 10 hours. Most of my charging is at home and 90% is my target which is usually 250 plus miles. Also the 16amp charger doesn’t seem to make the cooling fan run at as high a speed as does the 32amp charger.
I have a Juicebox at home and a Home Flex chargepoint at work. Both are great options. Always try to look for coupons codes or deals. You can usually get the Juicebox 40 for a good deal.
Mahalo, and another great video on charging from home. First off, I’m no electrician and I am trying to get ready for my GROVER to come home. I currently have a dryer plugged into a NEMA 14-30. After watching some videos by Tom, I’m thinking that the best option for me may be a volt splitter. This way I can plug the dryer in one outlet and hopefully the MME in the other. This unit bundled with a charger is pricey but so is an electrician. So I guess the bigger question is “ will the charger work on the MME “. Thanks again for all the help.
Hey thanks for this. I’ve been wavering back and forth on the Mach-e or mode Y and I’ve decided on the Mach e. Your vlog has been really helpful so I subscribed as I’m trying to get everything up to speed on what I’ll need before the purchase. Thanks again.
I test drove the Tesla and the Mach e Premium and the difference was obvious as soon as I sat in the seats. Being in the Tesla was like sitting in a white room with no furniture, compared to the interior of the mustang Mach e.
Another great video, and perfect timing - I was literally looknig up electricians last night to have someone come give me an estimate for installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage so I'm ready whenever I get my Mach-E. I was planning to just use the included charger, but I think I'll go with that ChargePoint one you have, once it's back in stock.
I was just going to use the included charger, but after a couple of times of unplugging it and putting it back in the Mach-E, I decided to just order one. I'm so glad I did. And the 30% tax credit will be helpful when I file my taxes next year.
@@MachE_VLOG Yeah, I ordered a second portable charger identical to the one included with the Mach-e. I got my NEMA 14-50 installed price-included with my power wall
@@MachE_VLOG Keep in mind that the 30% alternative fueling tax credit has special conditions in order to qualify. You have to pay a certain amount of income taxes, per a “minimum alternative tax” calculation. Just having enough tax liability to cover your credits isn’t good enough for this one. For point of reference, I had two child tax credits and one $7.5k EV credit last year (no other credits and standard deduction) and that alone was enough to disqualify me from receiving a single penny from the alternative fueling tax credit, despite a ~150k joint income. Others may have better luck if they have no dependents or are not also claiming the 7.5k tax credit in the same tax year as the alternative fuel one. It is really illogical that buying an EV would make it really hard to qualify for an EV charger tax credit, but that is Congress for you.
I just bought a new Mach E Premium X from a dealer, and I paid sticker price plus a $699 dealer doc fee. Considering the horror stories I have heard about dealer markups, I am thrilled about that price!
If you think dealer markup is a problem now, wait until Congress turns a tax credit into a $7,000 - 12,000 point of sale rebate. The dealers will be in hog heaven thinking that they can just take your free money with any markup that they feel like sticking on the price.
I had an electrician install a plug for an electrify America charger. One fewer apps to add. Interesting that I read the two things you can do to increase the value of your home with the best return: 1. Install an ev charger and 2. Install solar. So, in a sense you get the money back someday, and more.
ChargePoint home for the win! .. great 👍 content.. and only $600 for 40ft .. hope he used 6 AWG (gauge) copper wires for that run (8 AWG) will work too, also I find removing the hardwired ChargePoint unit easy... just turn off the breaker .. use the quick cable connector release in the unit and that’s the only difference.. also you left out the advantages of having it hardwire.. got to remember even if you don’t do it yourself you still need to honestly report everything so others can find the information you provide even more useful .. similar to how Tom M. does different charger reviews ..
I had a Siemens charger installed a couple years ago, and it uses a NEMA 6-50 receptacle and they recommend a 40 amp 2-pole breaker. So be sure you know which charger you are getting before you get your electrician to install a specific receptacle.
I have a JuiceBox and loved it up until when they changed their app in January 2023. The new app is a major downgrade. It is slow, confusing, and buggy. I can no longer change the charging rate while it is plugged into my car. In the past I would match the power into the car with the power produced on my rooftop solar panels. It is sad to see great hardware become unusable.
I have two 40 amp JuiceBox EVSEs which both work great. Sadly I can’t use them, or the Ford Mobile Charger, on 240v because I have the same issue others have reported on the mache forums where the Mach-E doesn’t like my house’s electricity and refuses to charge on a 240 volt outlet. All three of my chargers work fine with my other EV and I know my electrical outlets are wired properly. I hope Ford fixes this soon; currently they have released no solution to this according to my dealer.
So Lost power and tried charging my mach e when house was running on generator [ Generac 7500 } Made sure most everything was not running in house. It did not seem to want to charge. I am guessing my generator is to small. Not sure if I were to get an adapter for the ford charger so then I could hook up directly to generator?
Wow!!! That's sky high. It should be $699. I bought it from them for that just a month ago. I'm going to add what the prices should be for the chargers so no one gets ripped off.
@@MachE_VLOG yeah, $700 is about what I expected to pay. I’ll just wait and keep checking. Hopefully, the price will come back down. Otherwise, there’s always the JuiceBox for $579.
Buy an old model S/X generation 1 Tesla Mobile connector and an aftermarket Tesla to CCS Adapter with a Nema 14-50 outlet. For $200 or less you get 40a 10kw charging. Plus you can take the adapter on road trips and utilize Tesla destination charging.
The Autel charger that I reviewed supports using RFID cards to lock down the charger. It won't initiate a charge unless an authorized RFID card is tapped on the charger. I didn't test that part out, but it seems like that would be what you are looking for. czcams.com/video/au3s5T9qx-k/video.html
Ford has their own home unit. Has anyone purchased that option? Interested to see how good it is? Being a Ford branded product, I'm certain it will come in at a premium cost point.
Where you live is is code to have a gfci breaker installed on the nema 14-50 outlet? Where I live you need a gfci breaker and most of the chargers (including the grizzl-e that I bought) say do not install on a gfci outlet. The Ford mobile charger however says to use on a gfci outlet. This is something that needs to be sorted out with all these plug in chargers now that the code conflicts with these chargers.
Randy thanks for this info. Our charger will be outside (because we don’t have a garage) which requires a GFCI like the outlets we have for extension cords, lawn tools. I Will investigate how the chargers work with GFCIs. Really appreciate the heads up.
GFCI is not required here. It seemed odd that Ford recommended GFCI for their mobile charger when pretty much all others recommend against it. ChargePoint recommends against it but it will work with GFCI if you have it installed.
The doc I see from Ford says don’t use GFCI breaker because of false tripping. I think they changed their tune unless I have an outdated PDF. The GFCI circuit breaker and charging stations conflict is something this video should point out. This is a big headache for me to figure out as I live in a restrictive code state. Im still figuring it out. I think hard wiring might be needed. Too many video bloggers on ev charging stations are not calling this out as a word of caution.
It actually came with the purchase of our First Edition Mach-E. Each purchaser got one to match theirs. Rapid Red, Grabber Blue, and Carbonized Grey - Liv
Patrick, could you possibly measure for me the bolt pattern to install the charger, or if there is a schematic in the installation manual. Please let me know I would greatly appreciate it, even can compensate you for your time/ informationZ
We don't have the wire frame Pony STL. Ford sent that to everyone that bought a First Edition. We do have this STL for a solid one: drive.google.com/file/d/1Mqty4CDBlI3L5AgbJ6YdfDtfXWxcSswP/view?usp=drivesdk
Yes, you can. The ChargePoint doesn't seem like it would be as durable outside, but they say it is OK if you hardwire it or use an outdoor rated NEMA 14-50 outlet. The ClipperCreek and Grizzl-E are really durable and should be fine outdoors with a proper outlet.
I want to install the Ford Connected Charge Station but it is currently on back order (actually it's been recalled due to a charging fault) and won't be available until early June, per Ford parts website. Previously the end consumer could order it directly from the website for $719.00 before sales tax. Now, it is $799.00 and you can only order it through a Ford authorized dealer. I want this charger not only because it is a smart charger, but because it adds 30 miles per hour on average during a charging session. I'm curious if the charger you use (or any other third party charger for that matter) will add 30 miles of range per hour - My dilemma stems from the fact that my Mache-E is scheduled for production the week of May 31 and the Ford Connected Charge Station is slated to be available in early June. I imagine that shipping via rail will take approximately 2 weeks for the car and that leaves me a touch uncomfortable about having an adequate charging solution when I take delivery of the Mach-E. I don't have a 240 outlet in my garage nor outside the house near my driveway and, like you, I fear 110 charging won't provide me with enough range to cover my daily driving. Ford dealers can receive parts in about 24 hours so that's not a problem but without knowing precisely when the charging station will be available it is hard to plan. I have consulted with an electrician and the fee for installing the Ford charger or a 240 outlet will be roughly the same - so I can't see installing the 240 outlet just to install the charging station later. Any thoughts you might have concerning the aforementioned are appreciated.
That's what we are using now. Just make sure the outlet is labeled properly and make sure your EVSE is set to never exceed 32 amps (80% of the circuit capacity).
Hi Patrick - Just curious what is the total Amperage of your electrical service in your home? I have room in my electrical panel for a 50AMP circuit but my whole service is only 100AMP. Will I need to upgrade service (i.e. the line electrical line coming into my home from my power company + panel)?
150 amps. It's probably best to at least check with an electrician. It partly depends on what appliances you have in the house (i.e. electric range, dryer, heater).
Patrick, can you set the max charge (of 85 to 90%) on the Sync 4a screen or does it require a smart charger? My charger is dumb because in 2015 they weren't offering smart, so the Siemens charger I have will work just fine with my new MME (if/when it comes) but it is dumb.
I have a tesla wall charger will I be able to use this with my Mach e? Should I buy an adapter? I'm super lost and this is all new to me. Your info is greatly appreciated
Really appreciate the video as an EV newbie and future mach e owner ! Quick question. Does the MachE allow you to set a SOC limit via “dumb charger” or is a smart charger necessary for that? Thanks!!
A smart charger doesn’t really add any value since the Mach-E itself can do the same things and more by itself regardless of which charger you use. Smart chargers also have more limitations since they don’t really communicate with the car. For example, a smart charger can’t limit you to a max SOC percent because it doesn’t know how full the battery is when you plug in. The Mach-E however can do this as well as have different charge settings assigned to different locations (example home, workplace, public chargers...). While the smart features of a charger may be worthless since the Mach-E/FordPass is better, you might still want to buy one. This is because some utilities only offer rebates to customers using smart chargers. At least that is the case with my electric utility in Michigan. The reason is because they want to be able to collect data on what times/amount EV owners charge so they can see the effectiveness of TIme-Of-Use rate plans and better plan for power grid demand. They can only tap into that data with certain smart chargers. I recommend checking if your utility offers rebates and if so, which models qualify before purchasing.
I was surprised with 90%. I have been hearing more like around 80% for Mach E so that is actually better. It's like that for anything rechargeable I think though. It's recommended to not even charge your phone to 100% often, although I do it all the time....I will not do that with a 50,000 car though....lol.
It is in the manual on page 149. www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2021-Ford-Mustang-Mach-E-Owners-Manual-version-1_om_EN-US_09_2020-1.pdf
@@MachE_VLOG I see that. (It's on page 155 for me) I guess I should read the manual. It states that you should charge to 80% for DC charging but doesn't say that for AC. Does that mean it's fine for my home 240 volt to charge to 100%?
@@Blubberbot The part I'm talking about is under Overnight Charging and Storage: "Allowing your battery to cool before charging and setting the maximum state of charge to 90% for everyday usage improves longevity of your high voltage battery."
The 14-50 is more "standard" in the EV world when I looked around. The Ford charger uses a 14-50 plug so if you ever have a problem with the ChargePoint, you can easily use the Ford charger.
If an EVSE only needs two hots and a ground, you might save some money using 6-50 as it has no neutral. I wanted the 14-50 in case it's needed in the future.
Great video - for the NEMA 14-50 plug and the ChargePoint flex plug in...which way do I want the electrician to install the plug? Ground on top or bottom?
I went with ground on top. Apparently, there isn't a standard, but most people go with ground on top and that worked well with my install and the ChargePoint Home Flex.
Thanks for the video. My garage has a NEMA 6-50 receptacle rather than 14-50. What is the best way to use the charger that came with my Mustang in order to get Level 2 charging without having to swap out the receptacle for a 14-50, or purchasing a separate charger?
If it is a 50 amp circuit with proper wiring, you can buy adapters that would work. But it would probably be better to just swap the receptacle in the long run. If you go the adapter route, I'd verify that the wiring and circuit breaker is truly capable of handling 50 amps. It is easy enough to check the circuit breaker to see if it is a 50 amp breaker, but the wire needs to be 6 gauge.
@@MachE_VLOG Thanks for the input! I am afraid that an adapter running a constant 32 amps to charge the car might overheat. Will probably have an electrician swap the 6-50 receptacle (and wiring running back to the breaker panel) for a 14-50.
Pat, nice video. How many amps does the Charge Point charge at? I was told 32 is optimum as per charging a bit slower (less than 48) helps to keep your car battery in better shape. I dont know a dam thing about it. Lol But I am trying to learn before deciding. Thanks. My Mach E doesnt come in till March / April. Grabber Blue like yours. 👍
I have mine set to charge at 32 amps. The ChargePoint is great because you can change the AMP setting when you set it up. I think it varies from 32 to 48 amps.
EVSEs are not "chargers". The charger is built into every electrical car sold in America or Europe. In North America an EVSE is simply a fancy power outlet with a hard wired extension cable terminated with a J1772 type 1 connector that tells the vehicle how much power it can provide during the initial handshake. The vehicles on board charger then draws power at either its internal maximum rate if the EVSE can provide more than the vehicle can handle or at the EVSEs maximum rate if the EVSE cannot provide the full power limit of the vehicles internal charger. In the EU they will typically just have what amounts to an extension cable with a J1772 type 2 plug on either end that they can charge their cars with at an EVSE. Some EU EVSE units will have the cable and J1772 type 2 plug hardwired, in the case of CCS combo connectors it's always hard wired. Other EVSEs will just have a socket for you to connect your own cable that came with the car. Tesla vehicles in NA on the other hand have their own connector that is pin compatible with the J1772 standard except that the two main hot lines can either provide DC for DC fast charging at a Supercharger or AC for a standard home EVSE outlet. This J1772 compatibility is why a Tesla can charge at a normal EVSE with J1772 with just a small male to female adapter, it just rearranges the wires to conform to the J1772 type 1 standard. Teslas in the EU are required to have the J1772 type 2 connector by law so they are no different that most EU EVs for charging. Japan has their own standard called Chademo but it isn't common on NA or EU vehicles so I don't know much about it other than it is an AC and DC connector in one.
Yeah, I know that. It is just like a cable modem isn't a modem. It is fairly common for people to just call these chargers and that's what I do. Many consumers really don't care about all the details or what Europe is doing. They just want to know what they need to charge their Mach-E at home. I got asked the question repeatedly about which "charger" to buy.
It should. Make sure you label the outlet since it would be non-standard. I'd also double check because it may not pass inspection to have a 14-50 plug on a 40 amp circuit.
From ChargePoint's website: If local codes require a GFCI breaker for plug-in installation, ChargePoint recommends a hardwire installation. We do not recommend using a GFCI breaker as the Home Flex already has integrated charging circuit interrupting device (CCID) protection. Using a GFCI breaker in the panel, especially with a plug-in installation, can cause nuisance breaker tripping in certain circumstances and interrupt charging.
Pat, is there such a thing as a 60 amp circuit? If so, would it be better to do that. So if you charge at 48 amps once in a while, you have some breathing room instead of just 2 amps. Trust me, just asking. I HAVE NO CLUE ON ELECTRIC. And thank you for helping me. 👍
@@MachE_VLOG Pat, why is that? To hardwire it (60amp), only asking for my own knowledge. Anyway if thats the case, I want the plug. But thank you. I never got into electric till now.
@@glen8449 I am not sure if the details, but I think the electrical code requires that anything over 50 AMPs is hardwired. I like having the plug. If anything goes wrong with the charger, I can unplug it and plug in the Ford one.
If you charge at lower amps, it will just charge a bit slower and take a little longer. Instead of adding 22 miles of range per hour, it will just be 18.
@@mgt2010fla It's actually probably better for the battery to charge slower and lower power. The lower power also helps keep the heat down so in hot climates, it can be better to keep it lower.
@@MachE_VLOG That is what I have read from some posters, and that doesn't mean I accepted them it's just that they used science in their explanations. I had college physics about a 1000 years ago and ohms, amps, voltage, and wattage confused the crap out of me then, but I don't want to burn up $20,000 of batteries in the first month of ownership! Thanks for your help! Stay safe!
2 questions. I’m in between the ChargePoint flex and the electrify America home charger. At 40amps how many miles per hour are you getting? Second you said you have yours stop charging at 85%. Is that a setting on the charpoint flex app or on the car itself?
I am getting about 22 or 23 miles of range per hour. I just set the the ChargePoint to charge anytime and used the FordPass app to setup the charging schedule and the charge limit. You can also do it from the screen in the car.
@@MachE_VLOG Great video, I bought a Chargepoint flex after seeing this, I put in a 50amp solution. I'm not seeing anywhere near the miles per hour charge you are seeing. At the most I'm getting 10 miles an hour, is there something you are aware of I should be looking at?
@@bretlawson8584 Hmm.. not that I know of. If if you set it to 32 AMPs instead of 40, you should be getting decent mileage added. The only other thing I could thing of is that if it is really cold, you might have a lot of loss of energy as the car tries to heat the battery. Try the car's charger and see how well that does. That will at least help you identify if it is a car issue or charger issue.
Do you set your charge limit to less than 100% or do you always charge it to 100 at home? The only way I've found to change the charge limit is to set a charging schedule in the FordPass app then it lets you pick a max charge %... unfortunately that always requires you to choose charging times and doesn't let you pick all 24 hours of the day on that little circle dial, so I just set it to charge anytime from 5am all the way to 4am so it basically will always charge when I plug it in cuz the only time it won't charge is 4-5am. Seems like a really janky way to set max charging %...have you found a way to do it easily in the infotainment?
I've always just used a schedule anyway. Here in Colorado, we're switching to a time-of-day rate system so it will be cheaper to charge at night. I'll see if I can delete my schedule and keep the charge limit. When I find out, I'll let you know.
@@MachE_VLOG I'd also be curious if your app is still letting you even change it. The latest version of Ford Pass app on my Android phone crashes every single time I try to go into the charge settings 🤦♂️
Not sure why you came to comment about cars on a charging station video. But if you want to talk about the best, it can depend on what you are looking for. But The Mach-E has also won plenty of awards for being the best in its class: Utility of the Year - NACTOY EV of the Year - Car and Driver Green Car of the Year - Green Car Journal Edmunds Top Rated Luxury EV - Edmunds Best Car to Buy 2021- The Car Connection Best Electric Car to Buy 2021 - The Car Connection Best Crossover to Buy 2021 - The Car Connection Best Car to Buy 2021 - Green Car Reports
Word is that Excel Energy is going to raise rates and do a time of day usage rate. This is to get people to lower their so called carbon foot print. How will these new rates affect E cars in Colorado? I do know that Denver does have rolling blackouts in the summer.. Good luck charging your E car in Denver summers. Maybe go with the Rav 4 Hybrid or something other than an E Car. Leave it to Government to make a mess of things just to tell you later you need government to fix it. Yes.. I know.. Excel Energy is not owned by government. But they are regulated by them.. lol
Xcel will be switching to time of day usage rate. It isn't necessarily to reduce their carbon footprint it is to reduce the peak load on the energy grid. And since you normally charge electric cars at night, it will likely mean a significant cost savings for most EV owners including me. As for rolling blackouts, I've lived in Denver for 17 years and never had a single one.
@@MachE_VLOG i agree. we put on solar last year, highlands ranch, and heard about Xcel shoulder pricing. night time charging will cost less than 4-6 pm for sure. Any update on the video show total driving costs? MPe vs MPG? Home charging costs versus non home costs of charging?
Update: Bought a dealer test drive MME, Cali Route One, because of the ERB and RWD. We were having a Generex 22KWt generator installed and the crew of two really liked the MME. So while the outside guy was setting up the generator the electrician was just sitting around waiting. He asked how I planned to charge the vehicle and I said I'll have to call someone like him to set it up. He said if you get a 40 amp breaker, since that was all that was left on the breaker box, and we didn't want to go higher, he would put it in for $50. I remembered you, and others, saying installs were $600 or higher. I told him I would pay $200! Needless to say it was a WIN-WIN!
Thank you for this video. I bought the CP Home Flex and I absolutely love it. I had it hardwire installed by an electrician last year to a 60 amp fuse. I'm getting over 11kw to charge my Mach-E on a daily basis. So glad you pointed out that it keeps your charging history. I use that for my budget. Great to see how much I'm spending on charging.
Awesome info, thank you! It's nice to know you can keep track of what you are charging and how much it is. I will probably install one at my girlfriend's house so it will be nice to know how much I should pay her back etc.
Thank You folks for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Thank you. I'm waiting impatiently for my Mach E to actually get here. Meanwhile I'm concerned about learning what I need to know about charging. The garage is ready to go but we are planning our first road trip in August. Somewhere along the line I need to figure how to ensure my wife understands what she needs to know.
We'll try to do a new "Road Trip Essentials" video to help out. Any of our road trip videos show how it can be pretty easy and shows the steps involved in mapping a route with charging stops and charging details. czcams.com/video/5_AT1jIEqEs/video.html
Patrick! What a well done and very informative video on charging the Ford Mach-E! Owner's need this info! Even though I own a Tesla Model Y Performance, I'm glad other manufacturers are producing EV's to help reduce fossil fuel emissions! Tell Liv I said Hi from the Ocean State! We're an *EV Family!*
Thanks! Will do!
I use the Ford suppled 32amp 14-40 50 amp charger occasionally. I had a 16amp 240v charger when I had a Ford Focus electric. If I only need to top-off over night I use the 16amp. Ten/12 miles per hour will add a 100 miles in 10 hours. Most of my charging is at home and 90% is my target which is usually 250 plus miles. Also the 16amp charger doesn’t seem to make the cooling fan run at as high a speed as does the 32amp charger.
I have a Juicebox at home and a Home Flex chargepoint at work. Both are great options. Always try to look for coupons codes or deals. You can usually get the Juicebox 40 for a good deal.
Great tip!
Where do you find coupons for the juice box?
Mahalo, and another great video on charging from home. First off, I’m no electrician and I am trying to get ready for my GROVER to come home. I currently have a dryer plugged into a NEMA 14-30. After watching some videos by Tom, I’m thinking that the best option for me may be a volt splitter. This way I can plug the dryer in one outlet and hopefully the MME in the other. This unit bundled with a charger is pricey but so is an electrician. So I guess the bigger question is “ will the charger work on the MME “. Thanks again for all the help.
That's not a bad option. I should do a video on these type of solutions.
@Mach-E VLOG hey guys I have a duel chargeing station setup at home for ouy 2 Mach-Es.
If you want Info in my setup let me know.
Really like the way you explain charging, good common sense. Looking forward to comparing your experience to that of Kyle's when you travel.
Thanks a lot. First comprehensive video on this topic. Got a lot of useful information
Hey thanks for this. I’ve been wavering back and forth on the Mach-e or mode Y and I’ve decided on the Mach e.
Your vlog has been really helpful so I subscribed as I’m trying to get everything up to speed on what I’ll need before the purchase. Thanks again.
Awesome! I hope you love it. If you have any questions on the Mach-E, just reach out to me.
I test drove the Tesla and the Mach e Premium and the difference was obvious as soon as I sat in the seats. Being in the Tesla was like sitting in a white room with no furniture, compared to the interior of the mustang Mach e.
Another great video, and perfect timing - I was literally looknig up electricians last night to have someone come give me an estimate for installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage so I'm ready whenever I get my Mach-E. I was planning to just use the included charger, but I think I'll go with that ChargePoint one you have, once it's back in stock.
I was just going to use the included charger, but after a couple of times of unplugging it and putting it back in the Mach-E, I decided to just order one. I'm so glad I did. And the 30% tax credit will be helpful when I file my taxes next year.
@@MachE_VLOG Yeah, I ordered a second portable charger identical to the one included with the Mach-e.
I got my NEMA 14-50 installed price-included with my power wall
@@MachE_VLOG Keep in mind that the 30% alternative fueling tax credit has special conditions in order to qualify. You have to pay a certain amount of income taxes, per a “minimum alternative tax” calculation. Just having enough tax liability to cover your credits isn’t good enough for this one.
For point of reference, I had two child tax credits and one $7.5k EV credit last year (no other credits and standard deduction) and that alone was enough to disqualify me from receiving a single penny from the alternative fueling tax credit, despite a ~150k joint income.
Others may have better luck if they have no dependents or are not also claiming the 7.5k tax credit in the same tax year as the alternative fuel one.
It is really illogical that buying an EV would make it really hard to qualify for an EV charger tax credit, but that is Congress for you.
Thank you! I can’t wait to get my Mach-E hopefully before Ford calls it a sales failure because dealers can’t stop charging their damn ADM 😭
Adm?
@@ameerandnadia5612 adjusted dealer markup
I just bought a new Mach E Premium X from a dealer, and I paid sticker price plus a $699 dealer doc fee. Considering the horror stories I have heard about dealer markups, I am thrilled about that price!
@@laurenlawler4940 I was up charged about $600 here in LA but very happy with it
If you think dealer markup is a problem now, wait until Congress turns a tax credit into a $7,000 - 12,000 point of sale rebate. The dealers will be in hog heaven thinking that they can just take your free money with any markup that they feel like sticking on the price.
Great primer on home charger options and installation tips. Thanks!
I had an electrician install a plug for an electrify America charger. One fewer apps to add. Interesting that I read the two things you can do to increase the value of your home with the best return: 1. Install an ev charger and 2. Install solar. So, in a sense you get the money back someday, and more.
ChargePoint home for the win! .. great 👍 content.. and only $600 for 40ft .. hope he used 6 AWG (gauge) copper wires for that run (8 AWG) will work too, also I find removing the hardwired ChargePoint unit easy... just turn off the breaker .. use the quick cable connector release in the unit and that’s the only difference.. also you left out the advantages of having it hardwire.. got to remember even if you don’t do it yourself you still need to honestly report everything so others can find the information you provide even more useful .. similar to how Tom M. does different charger reviews ..
I am extremely happy with my ChargePoint Flex.
I had a Siemens charger installed a couple years ago, and it uses a NEMA 6-50 receptacle and they recommend a 40 amp 2-pole breaker. So be sure you know which charger you are getting before you get your electrician to install a specific receptacle.
Interesting to watch!!!!!!
I got a Grizz-le needed 50 Amps, and cost $555 to install in my garage (needed additional piping)
I have a JuiceBox and loved it up until when they changed their app in January 2023. The new app is a major downgrade. It is slow, confusing, and buggy. I can no longer change the charging rate while it is plugged into my car. In the past I would match the power into the car with the power produced on my rooftop solar panels. It is sad to see great hardware become unusable.
Ah that sucks. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we can get a chance to share that input with them - Liv
For those living in cold countries and the EVSE is install outside in a driveway just make sure the cable will remain flexible in freezing conditions.
Patrick, great informative video thanks. Where did you get that sweet blue mustang behind you in the video?
Great job on your video, very informative and clean.
Good Video, it helps with the items I was conflicted about.
Glad to hear!
I have two 40 amp JuiceBox EVSEs which both work great. Sadly I can’t use them, or the Ford Mobile Charger, on 240v because I have the same issue others have reported on the mache forums where the Mach-E doesn’t like my house’s electricity and refuses to charge on a 240 volt outlet. All three of my chargers work fine with my other EV and I know my electrical outlets are wired properly. I hope Ford fixes this soon; currently they have released no solution to this according to my dealer.
Does de-rating to 32 amps help? (is that possible in your Grizz) Sorry there's an issue with your car.
So Lost power and tried charging my mach e when house was running on generator [ Generac 7500 } Made sure most everything was not running in house. It did not seem to want to charge. I am guessing my generator is to small. Not sure if I were to get an adapter for the ford charger so then I could hook up directly to generator?
Thanks for this video. Very informative. I really like the charge point, but it’s more expensive than I thought. They have it on Amazon for $1,528.
Wow!!! That's sky high. It should be $699. I bought it from them for that just a month ago. I'm going to add what the prices should be for the chargers so no one gets ripped off.
@@MachE_VLOG yeah, $700 is about what I expected to pay. I’ll just wait and keep checking. Hopefully, the price will come back down. Otherwise, there’s always the JuiceBox for $579.
The Grizzl-E evse is a great option for $459 on Amazon. UL listed and built in Canada.
Buy an old model S/X generation 1 Tesla Mobile connector and an aftermarket Tesla to CCS Adapter with a Nema 14-50 outlet. For $200 or less you get 40a 10kw charging. Plus you can take the adapter on road trips and utilize Tesla destination charging.
thanks. do you have video of using a MME on a tesla supercharger? Or is that just for home use?
@@mikenindorf2449 just destination chargers. AC charging only
i just got my mach e gt they said charge it to 95 percent anyone know?
Do any of those allow you to add your car to them and be locked to all cars that are not pre-authorized?
The Autel charger that I reviewed supports using RFID cards to lock down the charger. It won't initiate a charge unless an authorized RFID card is tapped on the charger. I didn't test that part out, but it seems like that would be what you are looking for. czcams.com/video/au3s5T9qx-k/video.html
@@MachE_VLOG Thanks!
I would like to buy this card when they change this slow charger platform. My options now are Tesla, hyunday 5 and Kia ev6.
I don't think it needs fixing. It is pretty good as it is. And you have to account for the availability of chargers that can support those speeds.
Ford has their own home unit. Has anyone purchased that option? Interested to see how good it is? Being a Ford branded product, I'm certain it will come in at a premium cost point.
Where you live is is code to have a gfci breaker installed on the nema 14-50 outlet? Where I live you need a gfci breaker and most of the chargers (including the grizzl-e that I bought) say do not install on a gfci outlet. The Ford mobile charger however says to use on a gfci outlet. This is something that needs to be sorted out with all these plug in chargers now that the code conflicts with these chargers.
Randy thanks for this info. Our charger will be outside (because we don’t have a garage) which requires a GFCI like the outlets we have for extension cords, lawn tools. I Will investigate how the chargers work with GFCIs. Really appreciate the heads up.
GFCI is not required here. It seemed odd that Ford recommended GFCI for their mobile charger when pretty much all others recommend against it. ChargePoint recommends against it but it will work with GFCI if you have it installed.
GFCI? NEMA 14-50 is wired direct to the breaker box
@@JohnDoe-xr8dz The breaker in the box is gfci not the outlet. It is code where I live. They are also way more expensive.
The doc I see from Ford says don’t use GFCI breaker because of false tripping. I think they changed their tune unless I have an outdated PDF. The GFCI circuit breaker and charging stations conflict is something this video should point out. This is a big headache for me to figure out as I live in a restrictive code state. Im still figuring it out. I think hard wiring might be needed. Too many video bloggers on ev charging stations are not calling this out as a word of caution.
Where can i get the mustang on your shelf
It actually came with the purchase of our First Edition Mach-E. Each purchaser got one to match theirs. Rapid Red, Grabber Blue, and Carbonized Grey - Liv
Patrick, could you possibly measure for me the bolt pattern to install the charger, or if there is a schematic in the installation manual. Please let me know I would greatly appreciate it, even can compensate you for your time/ informationZ
Any chance you have an STL link for that Mustang behind you on the wall?
We don't have the wire frame Pony STL. Ford sent that to everyone that bought a First Edition. We do have this STL for a solid one: drive.google.com/file/d/1Mqty4CDBlI3L5AgbJ6YdfDtfXWxcSswP/view?usp=drivesdk
Good video. Can one put a charging post outside rather put it inside the garage?
Yes, you can. The ChargePoint doesn't seem like it would be as durable outside, but they say it is OK if you hardwire it or use an outdoor rated NEMA 14-50 outlet. The ClipperCreek and Grizzl-E are really durable and should be fine outdoors with a proper outlet.
I want to install the Ford Connected Charge Station but it is currently on back order (actually it's been recalled due to a charging fault) and won't be available until early June, per Ford parts website. Previously the end consumer could order it directly from the website for $719.00 before sales tax. Now, it is $799.00 and you can only order it through a Ford authorized dealer. I want this charger not only because it is a smart charger, but because it adds 30 miles per hour on average during a charging session. I'm curious if the charger you use (or any other third party charger for that matter) will add 30 miles of range per hour - My dilemma stems from the fact that my Mache-E is scheduled for production the week of May 31 and the Ford Connected Charge Station is slated to be available in early June. I imagine that shipping via rail will take approximately 2 weeks for the car and that leaves me a touch uncomfortable about having an adequate charging solution when I take delivery of the Mach-E. I don't have a 240 outlet in my garage nor outside the house near my driveway and, like you, I fear 110 charging won't provide me with enough range to cover my daily driving. Ford dealers can receive parts in about 24 hours so that's not a problem but without knowing precisely when the charging station will be available it is hard to plan. I have consulted with an electrician and the fee for installing the Ford charger or a 240 outlet will be roughly the same - so I can't see installing the 240 outlet just to install the charging station later. Any thoughts you might have concerning the aforementioned are appreciated.
You put that beautiful charger on that test paint wall lol? 😂
Haha... Maybe I should paint it to blend in!
@@MachE_VLOG Grabber Blue!
@@DK-pr9ny I love that. Just make the whole garage Grabber Blue hahah! - Liv
I installed a ChargePoint Flex, but the car I have on order and have been waiting for hasn't been built yet :^(
What about a 1450 outlet in 40 amp circuit? Is that good enough?
That's what we are using now. Just make sure the outlet is labeled properly and make sure your EVSE is set to never exceed 32 amps (80% of the circuit capacity).
Thanks, much needed info👍🏽
Hi Patrick - Just curious what is the total Amperage of your electrical service in your home? I have room in my electrical panel for a 50AMP circuit but my whole service is only 100AMP. Will I need to upgrade service (i.e. the line electrical line coming into my home from my power company + panel)?
150 amps. It's probably best to at least check with an electrician. It partly depends on what appliances you have in the house (i.e. electric range, dryer, heater).
Patrick, can you set the max charge (of 85 to 90%) on the Sync 4a screen or does it require a smart charger? My charger is dumb because in 2015 they weren't offering smart, so the Siemens charger I have will work just fine with my new MME (if/when it comes) but it is dumb.
You can set your charge level in FordPass or SYNC 4A.
I have a tesla wall charger will I be able to use this with my Mach e? Should I buy an adapter? I'm super lost and this is all new to me. Your info is greatly appreciated
You can, but you'll need an adapter. Something like this would work: amzn.to/3HMtSsV
@@MachE_VLOG thank you, can I also you the teslatap mini? I just don't know what amp model to get? How would I be able to find that out?
Really appreciate the video as an EV newbie and future mach e owner ! Quick question. Does the MachE allow you to set a SOC limit via “dumb charger” or is a smart charger necessary for that?
Thanks!!
You can manage the schedule and SOC limit with the Mach-E or the FordPass app even with a "dumb" charger.
A smart charger doesn’t really add any value since the Mach-E itself can do the same things and more by itself regardless of which charger you use. Smart chargers also have more limitations since they don’t really communicate with the car. For example, a smart charger can’t limit you to a max SOC percent because it doesn’t know how full the battery is when you plug in. The Mach-E however can do this as well as have different charge settings assigned to different locations (example home, workplace, public chargers...).
While the smart features of a charger may be worthless since the Mach-E/FordPass is better, you might still want to buy one. This is because some utilities only offer rebates to customers using smart chargers. At least that is the case with my electric utility in Michigan. The reason is because they want to be able to collect data on what times/amount EV owners charge so they can see the effectiveness of TIme-Of-Use rate plans and better plan for power grid demand. They can only tap into that data with certain smart chargers.
I recommend checking if your utility offers rebates and if so, which models qualify before purchasing.
I'm curious. How many more miles to you get per hour using the charge point vs the one included with the Mach E.?
I haven't heard of the thing where you should only charge to 90%. Do you have a source of that info? Thanks for the cool videos!!
I was surprised with 90%. I have been hearing more like around 80% for Mach E so that is actually better. It's like that for anything rechargeable I think though. It's recommended to not even charge your phone to 100% often, although I do it all the time....I will not do that with a 50,000 car though....lol.
It is in the manual on page 149.
www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2021-Ford-Mustang-Mach-E-Owners-Manual-version-1_om_EN-US_09_2020-1.pdf
@@MachE_VLOG I see that. (It's on page 155 for me) I guess I should read the manual. It states that you should charge to 80% for DC charging but doesn't say that for AC. Does that mean it's fine for my home 240 volt to charge to 100%?
@@Blubberbot The part I'm talking about is under Overnight Charging and Storage: "Allowing your battery to cool before charging and setting the maximum state of charge to 90% for everyday usage improves longevity of your high voltage battery."
Hey there. Quick Question. Why 14-50 over 6-50? I need to buy a Chargepoint Charger to get a local utility rebate. They offer both NEMA plugs
The 14-50 is more "standard" in the EV world when I looked around. The Ford charger uses a 14-50 plug so if you ever have a problem with the ChargePoint, you can easily use the Ford charger.
If an EVSE only needs two hots and a ground, you might save some money using 6-50 as it has no neutral. I wanted the 14-50 in case it's needed in the future.
Great video - for the NEMA 14-50 plug and the ChargePoint flex plug in...which way do I want the electrician to install the plug? Ground on top or bottom?
I went with ground on top. Apparently, there isn't a standard, but most people go with ground on top and that worked well with my install and the ChargePoint Home Flex.
@@MachE_VLOG thanks...keep the great content coming.
Thanks for the video. My garage has a NEMA 6-50 receptacle rather than 14-50. What is the best way to use the charger that came with my Mustang in order to get Level 2 charging without having to swap out the receptacle for a 14-50, or purchasing a separate charger?
If it is a 50 amp circuit with proper wiring, you can buy adapters that would work. But it would probably be better to just swap the receptacle in the long run. If you go the adapter route, I'd verify that the wiring and circuit breaker is truly capable of handling 50 amps. It is easy enough to check the circuit breaker to see if it is a 50 amp breaker, but the wire needs to be 6 gauge.
@@MachE_VLOG Thanks for the input! I am afraid that an adapter running a constant 32 amps to charge the car might overheat. Will probably have an electrician swap the 6-50 receptacle (and wiring running back to the breaker panel) for a 14-50.
Pat, nice video. How many amps does the Charge Point charge at? I was told 32 is optimum as per charging a bit slower (less than 48) helps to keep your car battery in better shape. I dont know a dam thing about it. Lol But I am trying to learn before deciding. Thanks. My Mach E doesnt come in till March / April. Grabber Blue like yours. 👍
I have mine set to charge at 32 amps. The ChargePoint is great because you can change the AMP setting when you set it up. I think it varies from 32 to 48 amps.
@@MachE_VLOG Thats great. Thank you for answering me. Now I know. And I am enjoying being a subscriber to you channel.
@@glen8449 Thanks! If you have any questions, contact me anytime.
60amp circut is better to get the max speed out of alot of cars
EVSEs are not "chargers". The charger is built into every electrical car sold in America or Europe. In North America an EVSE is simply a fancy power outlet with a hard wired extension cable terminated with a J1772 type 1 connector that tells the vehicle how much power it can provide during the initial handshake. The vehicles on board charger then draws power at either its internal maximum rate if the EVSE can provide more than the vehicle can handle or at the EVSEs maximum rate if the EVSE cannot provide the full power limit of the vehicles internal charger.
In the EU they will typically just have what amounts to an extension cable with a J1772 type 2 plug on either end that they can charge their cars with at an EVSE. Some EU EVSE units will have the cable and J1772 type 2 plug hardwired, in the case of CCS combo connectors it's always hard wired. Other EVSEs will just have a socket for you to connect your own cable that came with the car.
Tesla vehicles in NA on the other hand have their own connector that is pin compatible with the J1772 standard except that the two main hot lines can either provide DC for DC fast charging at a Supercharger or AC for a standard home EVSE outlet. This J1772 compatibility is why a Tesla can charge at a normal EVSE with J1772 with just a small male to female adapter, it just rearranges the wires to conform to the J1772 type 1 standard. Teslas in the EU are required to have the J1772 type 2 connector by law so they are no different that most EU EVs for charging.
Japan has their own standard called Chademo but it isn't common on NA or EU vehicles so I don't know much about it other than it is an AC and DC connector in one.
Yeah, I know that. It is just like a cable modem isn't a modem. It is fairly common for people to just call these chargers and that's what I do. Many consumers really don't care about all the details or what Europe is doing. They just want to know what they need to charge their Mach-E at home. I got asked the question repeatedly about which "charger" to buy.
Since the mach-E charger only uses 33 amps will it work with a 40amp dedicated circuit with a 14-50 plug?
It should. Make sure you label the outlet since it would be non-standard. I'd also double check because it may not pass inspection to have a 14-50 plug on a 40 amp circuit.
For the Ford charger, does it need GFCI circuit breaker? Thanks
From ChargePoint's website:
If local codes require a GFCI breaker for plug-in installation, ChargePoint recommends a hardwire installation. We do not recommend using a GFCI breaker as the Home Flex already has integrated charging circuit interrupting device (CCID) protection. Using a GFCI breaker in the panel, especially with a plug-in installation, can cause nuisance breaker tripping in certain circumstances and interrupt charging.
Do you get a floaty feeling when going over bumps or small hills or like speed bumps with your Mach E?
I did at first, but the dealer overinflated the tires to 45 psi. I reduced it to the recommended 39 psi and it rides great now.
Might wanna update the prices 🤔
They are listed in the description.
Pat, is there such a thing as a 60 amp circuit? If so, would it be better to do that. So if you charge at 48 amps once in a while, you have some breathing room instead of just 2 amps. Trust me, just asking. I HAVE NO CLUE ON ELECTRIC. And thank you for helping me. 👍
Yes, you can have a 60 AMP circuit with the ChargePoint and some others. Just be aware that the charger has to be hardwired instead of plugged in.
@@MachE_VLOG Pat, why is that? To hardwire it (60amp), only asking for my own knowledge. Anyway if thats the case, I want the plug. But thank you. I never got into electric till now.
@@glen8449 I am not sure if the details, but I think the electrical code requires that anything over 50 AMPs is hardwired. I like having the plug. If anything goes wrong with the charger, I can unplug it and plug in the Ford one.
What are the problems if you use a 40 amp breaker setup compared to using the 50 amp breaker?
If you charge at lower amps, it will just charge a bit slower and take a little longer. Instead of adding 22 miles of range per hour, it will just be 18.
@@MachE_VLOG I have read that but I also, it's the internet, that I could damaged my vehicle's batteries, which is my biggest concern.
@@mgt2010fla It's actually probably better for the battery to charge slower and lower power. The lower power also helps keep the heat down so in hot climates, it can be better to keep it lower.
@@MachE_VLOG That is what I have read from some posters, and that doesn't mean I accepted them it's just that they used science in their explanations. I had college physics about a 1000 years ago and ohms, amps, voltage, and wattage confused the crap out of me then, but I don't want to burn up $20,000 of batteries in the first month of ownership! Thanks for your help! Stay safe!
2 questions. I’m in between the ChargePoint flex and the electrify America home charger. At 40amps how many miles per hour are you getting?
Second you said you have yours stop charging at 85%. Is that a setting on the charpoint flex app or on the car itself?
I am getting about 22 or 23 miles of range per hour. I just set the the ChargePoint to charge anytime and used the FordPass app to setup the charging schedule and the charge limit. You can also do it from the screen in the car.
@@MachE_VLOG Great video, I bought a Chargepoint flex after seeing this, I put in a 50amp solution. I'm not seeing anywhere near the miles per hour charge you are seeing. At the most I'm getting 10 miles an hour, is there something you are aware of I should be looking at?
@@bretlawson8584 Hmm.. not that I know of. If if you set it to 32 AMPs instead of 40, you should be getting decent mileage added. The only other thing I could thing of is that if it is really cold, you might have a lot of loss of energy as the car tries to heat the battery. Try the car's charger and see how well that does. That will at least help you identify if it is a car issue or charger issue.
Do you set your charge limit to less than 100% or do you always charge it to 100 at home? The only way I've found to change the charge limit is to set a charging schedule in the FordPass app then it lets you pick a max charge %... unfortunately that always requires you to choose charging times and doesn't let you pick all 24 hours of the day on that little circle dial, so I just set it to charge anytime from 5am all the way to 4am so it basically will always charge when I plug it in cuz the only time it won't charge is 4-5am. Seems like a really janky way to set max charging %...have you found a way to do it easily in the infotainment?
I've always just used a schedule anyway. Here in Colorado, we're switching to a time-of-day rate system so it will be cheaper to charge at night. I'll see if I can delete my schedule and keep the charge limit. When I find out, I'll let you know.
@@MachE_VLOG I'd also be curious if your app is still letting you even change it. The latest version of Ford Pass app on my Android phone crashes every single time I try to go into the charge settings 🤦♂️
what about option for people live in condo. Can we do some kind of portable battery?
Why only 90%?
Ford says it will help preserve the life of your battery over the years.
The price of your charger just went up to about $1300.00 . OMG
It keeps going in and out of stock with big price fluctuations. I wouldn't pay over $699 for it.
Not the best but much better than gm branded cars
Not sure why you came to comment about cars on a charging station video. But if you want to talk about the best, it can depend on what you are looking for. But The Mach-E has also won plenty of awards for being the best in its class:
Utility of the Year - NACTOY
EV of the Year - Car and Driver
Green Car of the Year - Green Car Journal
Edmunds Top Rated Luxury EV - Edmunds
Best Car to Buy 2021- The Car Connection
Best Electric Car to Buy 2021 - The Car Connection
Best Crossover to Buy 2021 - The Car Connection
Best Car to Buy 2021 - Green Car Reports
@@MachE_VLOG great video though
pourquoi pas en français également..
J'aimerais parler français. Je ne connais pas non plus les normes électriques françaises.
@@MachE_VLOG je demeure au Canada
@@bernardboivin6733 Je suis un Américain et j'ai fait une supposition. Je m'excuse.
@@MachE_VLOG I live in Canada not in France
Word is that Excel Energy is going to raise rates and do a time of day usage rate. This is to get people to lower their so called carbon foot print. How will these new rates affect E cars in Colorado? I do know that Denver does have rolling blackouts in the summer.. Good luck charging your E car in Denver summers. Maybe go with the Rav 4 Hybrid or something other than an E Car. Leave it to Government to make a mess of things just to tell you later you need government to fix it. Yes.. I know.. Excel Energy is not owned by government. But they are regulated by them.. lol
Xcel will be switching to time of day usage rate. It isn't necessarily to reduce their carbon footprint it is to reduce the peak load on the energy grid. And since you normally charge electric cars at night, it will likely mean a significant cost savings for most EV owners including me.
As for rolling blackouts, I've lived in Denver for 17 years and never had a single one.
@@MachE_VLOG i agree. we put on solar last year, highlands ranch, and heard about Xcel shoulder pricing. night time charging will cost less than 4-6 pm for sure.
Any update on the video show total driving costs? MPe vs MPG? Home charging costs versus non home costs of charging?
Just curious, what are the current as well as the proposed rates?