I think the only exception is where companies have parental roles for underage idols. Moreso even than say boarding schools. Companies do have a responsibility to ensure the safety of young people as best they can, which must mean that at a minimum, they should be educating young people in the ethical, emotional and safe conduct of personal relationships. But also protection from deluded fans, and the associated scandals of drinking, partying, and inappropriate behaviour. All this isn't to say a "dating ban", just that there is a case for not exposing young trainees and idols to unnecessary risks.
I honestly can't wait for my ults to publicly date (if they wanted to--but let's be real most idols are dating in secret atp) bc to me it'd feel like friends getting into a relation but it sucks that we as fans are the sole reasons that idols lives are restricted (yes, the companies are to blame but it's in response to fan culture in general). Also, I hate when fans are like "awee, my innocent baby *enter idol*" and then that idol is like 27 😐which isn't related to dating in general but it shows a side of fans that believe whole heartedly that these idols that are attractive and in their 20s aren't dating
so many great points! personally i think idols should be allowed to date freely but you mentioned a lot of good reasons as to why they might not want to. loving the content!
I do think a dating ban can be good for the first 1-2 years of an idols career, to keep them from using their idol status to go after fans. This is especially for male idols, they are MenTM after all. However, if they’re already dating someone, or date within the industry, I personally dgaf. Just the other day I saw a tweet that it’s common for idols to date staff which had me all 👀. But thinking about it it actually makes a lot of sense. Staff sees the idols real personalities, have similar working times and am around them a lot. Safe and easy. But one unexpected good thing from dating bans is that it should make it easier for queer idols to hide. Fans wont ask ”why aren’t you settling down with children” when 99% of the industry also (openly) doesn’t. Ofc in an ideallic world they’d be able to be out and proud, but we’re far from that even here in the west 😢
It's true that the entire industry is kinda forced into a metaphorical closet and have it closer to a gay dating experience in a homophobic society than most straights get
I think that some of the scandals from the 90s really killed the chances of idols dating. There were female idols who had been attacked, harassed, and one was nearly blinded because of dating rumors. I think some bans are as much to protect the idols as they are to maintain a particular image. That isn't to say I think there should be dating bans. I agree that artists and companies need to draw firm, bold boundaries between artists and fans. Also, I'm willing to bet most dating bans are restricted similar to JYPE where it's a short time limit. After that it's the idol's responsibility to maintain decorum and keep their private life private.
I agree with your overall opinion on the matter. I admittedly do not care in the slightest if an idol dates, I'm twenty-three and there's more important things to me than the idea of an idol dating. But I agree that companies should be more upfront with the possible repercussions that could come if idols chose to make their relationships public or if they get caught, specially if they're going to keep debuting minors into their future groups.
You make some great points, and the dating ban is just one of many issues idols face. As you say we don't care about such things in the west, as in the U.S., we have pop stars all sizes, ages, races, cultures, sexual preferences, etc, and they are generally free to party, date who they want, and live their lives as they see fit and no one cares. However, in S. Korean, companies & their idols will have to eventually at some point, just start pushing all these boundaries until those minority of K-nets/stans/trolls learn to deal with those things. I mean everything from dating, to enforcing unrealistic K-beauty standards (including weight & what idols eat, and whether they are perceived as too thin or too heavy), often made to feel that they aren't pretty enough, and encouraging cosmetic surgery, etc. Many are forced to wear uncomfortably tight, short or provocative clothing. It's also not acceptable for them to drink, smoke(even if of age), and would definitely not be accepted for being LGBTQI+, etc. These things will have to change for K-Pop idols to ever be really comfortable and have less of the stress & anxiety issues they have to deal with currently in the industry.
I don't disagree with anything, great video! You are the first to bring up media in this conversation. People often say that companies are at fault for the unrealistic expectations fans have, but fans are too, for buying into itand being comfortable with it, but noone brings up the media that thrives off of all of it. I think the topic of the dating ban is more complicated than it seems at first glance. Not only fans who are invested emotionally, but the Korean society also did not treat idols dating kindly whatsoever in the past. It is better now, seeing the reactions to Taennie, most are supportive so far, but all we have to do, is remember how Shinee's Jonghyun, who bravely dated, was treated. I'm sure the whole thing contributed to the decline of his mental health. Taeyeon. Krystal and Kai. Sulli and whoever her useless boyfriend was. I'm sure it's not fans who were horrible to her during her dating period. All these artists were sacrificed to the dating scandar gods for idol dating to get normalized a bit. In favor of the limits on dating, the majority of trainees and even new idols are young and impressionable. There are so many dangers, especially for women. Sunbaes will ask them out, rope them into things, take advantage of them. There are so many shitty people. Girls can get pregnant. Going out and dating bans protect them until they wisen up. Also gives them an excuse as to why they are refusing to engage with certain people. Of course, the companies are protecting their investment in upholding rules like this. Trouble can ruin the entire group. Glam members got into trouble on their own, and forever ruined other members' careers. Made it hard for BTS too, because Bighit lost money on Glam and did not have money on BTS. Also, I'm sure they were stricter on BTS because of Glam. I'm sure BTS were very affected and influenced by the whole thing and were always aware how their mistakes can ruin it for the entire group. So they tried extra hard to be responsible and not fuck it up not only for themselves, but fellow members. Did they have a dating ban longer than a couple of years after debut? I don't think so. I think they were just dating responsibly and carefully. Unclear to public dating policies of companies have their own perks. Everyone will assume there is a dating ban, when in reality there isn't, and people can freely date, just without revealing it to the public . Everyone around Hyuna and E'dawn knew they were dating. Cube knew and was fine with it. But fans and public assumed Pentagon can't date. Not sure if Hyuna was underbthe same expectation. But she was in a completely different position than her partner career wise. The way she dropped the dating news on public without consulting E'dawn was not fair. And she did realize it later. As of dating idols working together to generate profit... Idk. Not everyone can mix their personal and work lives, and forcing it on them would not be more ethical than the dating ban. Mamamoo never had any dating bans after debut, not sure about before debut. I'm sure there are more groups like this, than we assume, but they are the only ones who were allowed to say it/said it. For some, there might be a ban for the first year or two after the debut. Which is a bit reasonable? Not in an ideal world, but in reality we live in. But the thing is, I'm sure people date with or without permision from their company. I'm sure most of them do. And they won't be kicked out from a debuted group, even if their companies find out and are not too happy. I'm sure that if they find the capacity in their lives and people they want to date, they date. So in a way, dating ban is an illusion for fan s and general public. But if straight idol dating rights are in a bad situation, non-straight idol rights are non-existent whatsoever. Those JYP trainees who got kicked out for dating. Were they supposed to be in the same group? I don't remember. Kai Baekhyun, Jihyo and others still survived his dating scandals. Hyuna thrived in it. Would their careers have survived a gay dating scandal? Imo, not likely. Gay people, which I'm sure there are some, with so many groups we have in kpop, are in an even worse situation. I just don't want to forget them when talking about idol dating, because they deserve rights too. All that said, of course dating should be something idols can do freely and publicly. So... support Tannie? Don't hate on them if they break up even if you are not their fan? Because how they get treated affects how your artist will get treated when they go public with their dating. If we make it better for one couple, it's progress.
only related to the thumbnail and not the very eloquently worded video, but the big thing a lot of people forget about the Dawn/Hyuna dating scandal is that *cube doesn't have a dating ban* so they broke zero rules. They just publically contradicted the company and got axed for it. 5 years and I'm still not over it lol.
Bts is my ult group and the thing i want more for them is to find love! But now that they're taking a break i've realized how fucking intense their schedule has been these past 10 years and i really wonder how much time they had to cultivate friendships and relationships, which is extremely sad :( I kinda get why trainees and new groups don't date, especially when they're minors (it's fine for teens to date, but it's also pretty normal for people to date for the first time in their twenties), i think it's reasonable for companies to want them to focus on their training and first activities as a group, but at the same time i think this is not the sole reason. Trainees and new groups most likely do not have dating on their mind and want to work hard and focus on their goal. I think that the main reason is the whole parasocial relationship thing, which is totally crazy especially when they're adults with their own lives and stuff. I've noticed how demonized jennie has been as she's had a few (?? Idk) 'public' relationships. She's been slutshamed and trult torn apart and its extremely unfair, she's just dating. Why cant they put this energy towards more serious matters, like when idols are truly horrid people or have biases towards people of other races and sexualities? I think idols deserve their privacy though, most of their lives are put on a pedestal so maybe the existence of this type of culture can be helpful from this point of view
the funny thing is most trainees and idols date. Those dating bans have never stopped anyone from it, older idols say it all the times in their intervieuws lmfao. You really have to be in denial to actually think young and good looking people are gonna stop themselves from having relashionships for whatever reason
Great video, also you have a lovely voice! I hope this doesn’t sound strange but when this video autoplayed I was pleasantly surprised to hear your dulcent tones
YESSSS the industry violates human rights left right and center daily so yeah, youd think they feel bad about stopping idols from dating??? lol, I dont agree with it, but its not gonna change in our lifetimes....
I think on a musical level, a problem I have with K-Pop is that so often the music feels really generic, like it's manufactured for the widest possible audience possible. I really like how autobiographical, even confessional, a lot of R&B, rap, indie, country, and rock music is in the US/west. I think about Fleetwood Mac releasing Rumors, Ariana Grande singing about her exes on Thank U Next, Beyonce releasing Lemonade about how she healed from Jay-Z's affair, or the way Kanye West can rap so openly about being bipolar. When K-Pop prevents idols from sharing information about their personal lives, they limit artistic expression in a really profound way. The music feels less honest. Removing the dating ban could push Korean pop forward.
in the end kpop in general is a very far fetched extension of the real world. If you have financial gain from a competitive field, you have to compete with other people who are the standard and because of that, the standard gets higher and higher. Its a flaw in the system. In the end you would need to have at least a minimum wage for fields that are competitive like art and entertainment, but where does this money come from, because the income comes from sales. Same with the parasocial relationships. People crave connection and because its so hard in a lot of parts in the world to get that, they search for it in something like kpop. The bottom line is money in every case here, and that companies and the ones who have that money, arent willing to take risks.
Amazing video! I think idols should 100% be allowed to date. I think that in most cases it's best to keep it private. At least until they start to build a family and stuff. Not only for the sake of fan service but also just for their own privacy. I see a lot of people saying they don't care if their idol dates but they just don't want to know about it and I understand where they are coming from. However if they're dating another idol they could definitely profit off of that. With collabs and stuff. Though I imagine that could be hard for the relationship if they don't manage to keep business and private life separate.
I totally agree with the fact that it can be profitable! but I think it would be for groups with a bigger international fanbase. I honestly think that ateez, for example, could manage to get enough support from international fans as atinys are quite "old" and don't really seemed to be against them dating.
Dating bans don't even help against scandals, because most dating scandals are centered around the fact that dating is such a taboo in kpop because of dating bans. If there never was dating bans, finding out that an idol was dating someone (idol or no) wouldn't be such a big thing. Like in the west, a celebrity dating another celebrity isn't a scandalous thing unless there was cheating involved.
Celebrities in the west are usually not in the business of selling illusions to the delusionals. K-pop idols are. If there is a dating ban for them, it's an informal one - Its unwise, and you should not do it, but if you do, you should make every effort to be discrete about it From a business perspective, keeping such activities under the radar benefits both the idols and company in ways that fans who romanticize them will see them as available and will keep continuing to support them. Hardcore fans tend to be somewhat delusional and taking their "relationship" with said idol(s) a bit too seriously and personal
@@OleLeik dating bans are only beneficial from a business stand point, not protecting an idol. Celebs can keep their relationships secret or private without a dating ban. It might be hard, but it’s not impossible. Dating bans are what sells the fantasy of availability. Bc idols have to hide their relationships or are strictly forbade to get in them by their company, delulu fans take that as them being available to them. Most celebs do fan service (especially boybands, western or otherwise), kpop just takes it do another level and each generation is getting more toxic bc of it
@@samcarmen Idols dating used to be bigger scandals back in the days to the point of being a instant career killer. Instead of attemps od damage control and people being in denial and creating their own bubble with narratives that suit the fantasy - fansites would just type the word -CLOSE- and contracts would be hold over a open flame. Its still the case in regard to the Japanese idol industry I believe Nowadays k-pop idol companies and fans attitudes toward this has softened up a bit. I dont think dating bans actually exist there these days. Not even k-pop entertainment companies, with their infamous slave contracts, can legally get away with something like that. Although those idol contracts probably have some loosely worded clausules about "serious damage to the groups standing and income" and the trainees being told about the parasocial relationships between idols and fans they will be relying on and and that “idols shouldn’t date”.before signing the dotted line. The dating ban is a construct mainly directed towards the fan base because it’s, sad and stupid as it might be, part of the devoted fan culture. I think causual fans should realise why they're called idols and are separate from people that are called singers and artists. Idols does not really primarily sells music and performances, what they're selling is a "relationship". Dating is something they refrain from doing or at least being public about it because of the very real fan backlash that is bound to ensue if the fans dont approve - not just backlash for the idol, their group and company, but also for who they are dating
I would argue that delusional fans are the backbone of most group’s success, they mass stream mass buy and invest a lot into the group in hopes they could date them when they realize they aren’t available they stop supporting them and at least for smaller groups can impact the profit
I don't know if I would say delusional fans are the backbone of most groups' success, but they definitely are for some groups (particularly ones with younger fandoms). As the average age of a kpop stan gets older and older, I think we're getting more and more rational about these kind of things. But for smaller groups with a younger audience, yeah, they would be putting themselves at risk by dating publicly
@@catchingteez yes especially for younger groups that is probably the reason a lot of companies will say that they have a dating ban for the first few years they are a group
Making a scandal of two celebrities dating, whether K-Pop idols, or K-Drama actors, is a nonsense. If both people are adults and the relationship is consensual, etc., nobody should tell them what to do, either their company, agents, or whoever. If an idol has no time for anything else than work, especially for a private life, they may end up with a severe depression and we know all too well how this ends. So idols and actors should have contractually guaranteed a free time, vacations, and free choice of starting relationships. I understand that morality and societal norms are stricter in Korea than in Western countries, still, dating ban shouldn't be one of those norms. Also, they should date while they're still young, and they should be allowed to start a family when they're older, if they wish to do so. Nobody is going to give them back their twenties, and they're not going to be any younger, otherwise when their are finally out of their companies' supervision they might be too old to find partners or to start a family.
I think because the career of these ‘idols’ aren’t not just selling their singing and dancing but also selling the ‘boyfriend’ or ‘girlfriend’ images too. (Not like in the Western singers) Most of their target audiences are teens and the companies get huge profits from selling teenage fans these images. If idols actually date, that image will collapse and hardly sell anymore. So i think idols have to accept the condition that if they wanna make money from this industry, they need to keep up with that boyfriend/girlfriend image. It’s the requirement of the job. Otherwise they need to become the real ‘singer’ and make people focus on their songs more than their images.
ok my point is to why it might make sense is that kpop is striving to be global but since it’s a country that has short history, been divided into to and has struggled financially- unlike america - they just have to try soo hard by making idols look perfect and appealing to everyone like i believe colonialism has a part to this system honestly - they can’t afford the freedom america has tbh
I would agree that culture ties into it, and their culture was formed by everything you mentioned. Societal pressure to be upstanding and perfect is massive over there, so it only makes sense that it would spread to the idol industry
Above all else, it just seems silly to me. I just don't know how you can actually implement such a rule besides punishing/terminating an artist's career if they get "caught". And if it's one of your more profitable artists, then that's just dumb and it probably would have served you better to lean into the fantasy of your more profitable idol being a bit more relatable. But hey, that's just me. Like when it was revealed that Chen was in a secret relationship and was having a baby? I gushed and thought that was fracking romantic. He needs to sell that story and have a kdrama made, stat. So I'm over here scratching my head, dumbfounded as to how anyone could have a right to be upset about this? Did no one think it was sweet and would love that happiness for themselves? Which I guess is the problem, but still. If you weren't seeing Chen regularly and he didn't impregnate you, odds are you were probably out of the running 😮💨
If the fellow was not allowed to date anyone, would that not also exclude the small army of obsessive fangirls ? But then again logic and rationally seems to be in rather short supply inside those circles From my perspective, "dating bans" are there to protect both the idol and the fan, so that the idol-fan relationship can still be maintained for business purposes. It may be silly and unrealistic , but as long as the subject having a career that in no little degree depends on selling illusions of flirting and romantic availability - and hardcore fans tend to be somewhat delusional and take their "relationship" with said idol(s) a bit too seriously and personal........well
I think knetizens are the root of the problem. Idk but most of the time it's always them absolutely losing their sh*t if a male idol locks eyes with a female or vice versa. And the female always gets more hate. And I just know it's because majority of these fans are female and have massive insecurities and the fact that their oppars like beautiful (in a subjective way) women completely shatters their self esteem. What these ppl need as birthday gifts are not plastic surgeries but therapy appointments.
I understand dating bans on trainees regardless of their age bc its similar to why a lot of parents don't want their kids to date in high school. They are there for a reason: to learn. Sure, there are and should be moments of fun, but most of the time, dating distracts from the common goal at that stage of someone's life. But keeping a dating ban past the first year of an idol's career is just cruel. Dating bans perpetuated an idol's "availability" in the eyes of fans so now fans are just expected to be able to "have a chance" with idols because they "don't date". Underage idols should have dating restrictions, but not dating bans. Makes no sense
The dating ban was actually started for safety reasons. An idol named Kim Sung-jae was killed by his girlfriend in the 90s and she was able to get off.
Setting aside the issue about whether or not idols should be allowed to date (they should be), "...get off my channel..." is a very trendy thing to say right now and probably not very successful. It totally changed the tone of this video.
seeing how people treat celebrities dating lives in american media is enough to ake me understand the sentiment behind a dating ban. american stans are so invasive and blatantly entitled to making jokes, memes, unwanted commentary and criticisms on celebrities I can see why companies just see it as something to avoid. Look at how the media treated taylor swift, shawn mendes and camila cabello, the buzz surrounding pete davidson and how he must have AmAzING dick. like, fans are stll irrational regardless of a ban. ((plus lets be honest people like lucas and wayv couldve benefitted from a ban like, one gf wasnt enough, you had to ((allegedly)) fuck over three))
I think the only exception is where companies have parental roles for underage idols. Moreso even than say boarding schools. Companies do have a responsibility to ensure the safety of young people as best they can, which must mean that at a minimum, they should be educating young people in the ethical, emotional and safe conduct of personal relationships. But also protection from deluded fans, and the associated scandals of drinking, partying, and inappropriate behaviour. All this isn't to say a "dating ban", just that there is a case for not exposing young trainees and idols to unnecessary risks.
I honestly can't wait for my ults to publicly date (if they wanted to--but let's be real most idols are dating in secret atp) bc to me it'd feel like friends getting into a relation but it sucks that we as fans are the sole reasons that idols lives are restricted (yes, the companies are to blame but it's in response to fan culture in general). Also, I hate when fans are like "awee, my innocent baby *enter idol*" and then that idol is like 27 😐which isn't related to dating in general but it shows a side of fans that believe whole heartedly that these idols that are attractive and in their 20s aren't dating
Infantilization definitely plays a part here, you're absolutely right
so many great points! personally i think idols should be allowed to date freely but you mentioned a lot of good reasons as to why they might not want to. loving the content!
You have no say if your a foreigner!
@@ArtIsDrawing girl it ain’t that deep
I do think a dating ban can be good for the first 1-2 years of an idols career, to keep them from using their idol status to go after fans. This is especially for male idols, they are MenTM after all.
However, if they’re already dating someone, or date within the industry, I personally dgaf. Just the other day I saw a tweet that it’s common for idols to date staff which had me all 👀. But thinking about it it actually makes a lot of sense. Staff sees the idols real personalities, have similar working times and am around them a lot. Safe and easy.
But one unexpected good thing from dating bans is that it should make it easier for queer idols to hide. Fans wont ask ”why aren’t you settling down with children” when 99% of the industry also (openly) doesn’t. Ofc in an ideallic world they’d be able to be out and proud, but we’re far from that even here in the west 😢
It's true that the entire industry is kinda forced into a metaphorical closet and have it closer to a gay dating experience in a homophobic society than most straights get
I think that some of the scandals from the 90s really killed the chances of idols dating. There were female idols who had been attacked, harassed, and one was nearly blinded because of dating rumors. I think some bans are as much to protect the idols as they are to maintain a particular image.
That isn't to say I think there should be dating bans. I agree that artists and companies need to draw firm, bold boundaries between artists and fans.
Also, I'm willing to bet most dating bans are restricted similar to JYPE where it's a short time limit. After that it's the idol's responsibility to maintain decorum and keep their private life private.
I agree with your overall opinion on the matter. I admittedly do not care in the slightest if an idol dates, I'm twenty-three and there's more important things to me than the idea of an idol dating. But I agree that companies should be more upfront with the possible repercussions that could come if idols chose to make their relationships public or if they get caught, specially if they're going to keep debuting minors into their future groups.
You make some great points, and the dating ban is just one of many issues idols face. As you say we don't care about such things in the west, as in the U.S., we have pop stars all sizes, ages, races, cultures, sexual preferences, etc, and they are generally free to party, date who they want, and live their lives as they see fit and no one cares. However, in S. Korean, companies & their idols will have to eventually at some point, just start pushing all these boundaries until those minority of K-nets/stans/trolls learn to deal with those things. I mean everything from dating, to enforcing unrealistic K-beauty standards (including weight & what idols eat, and whether they are perceived as too thin or too heavy), often made to feel that they aren't pretty enough, and encouraging cosmetic surgery, etc. Many are forced to wear uncomfortably tight, short or provocative clothing. It's also not acceptable for them to drink, smoke(even if of age), and would definitely not be accepted for being LGBTQI+, etc. These things will have to change for K-Pop idols to ever be really comfortable and have less of the stress & anxiety issues they have to deal with currently in the industry.
You have no say if your a foreigner!
I don't disagree with anything, great video! You are the first to bring up media in this conversation. People often say that companies are at fault for the unrealistic expectations fans have, but fans are too, for buying into itand being comfortable with it, but noone brings up the media that thrives off of all of it.
I think the topic of the dating ban is more complicated than it seems at first glance. Not only fans who are invested emotionally, but the Korean society also did not treat idols dating kindly whatsoever in the past. It is better now, seeing the reactions to Taennie, most are supportive so far, but all we have to do, is remember how Shinee's Jonghyun, who bravely dated, was treated. I'm sure the whole thing contributed to the decline of his mental health. Taeyeon. Krystal and Kai. Sulli and whoever her useless boyfriend was. I'm sure it's not fans who were horrible to her during her dating period. All these artists were sacrificed to the dating scandar gods for idol dating to get normalized a bit.
In favor of the limits on dating, the majority of trainees and even new idols are young and impressionable. There are so many dangers, especially for women. Sunbaes will ask them out, rope them into things, take advantage of them. There are so many shitty people. Girls can get pregnant. Going out and dating bans protect them until they wisen up. Also gives them an excuse as to why they are refusing to engage with certain people. Of course, the companies are protecting their investment in upholding rules like this. Trouble can ruin the entire group. Glam members got into trouble on their own, and forever ruined other members' careers. Made it hard for BTS too, because Bighit lost money on Glam and did not have money on BTS. Also, I'm sure they were stricter on BTS because of Glam. I'm sure BTS were very affected and influenced by the whole thing and were always aware how their mistakes can ruin it for the entire group. So they tried extra hard to be responsible and not fuck it up not only for themselves, but fellow members. Did they have a dating ban longer than a couple of years after debut? I don't think so. I think they were just dating responsibly and carefully.
Unclear to public dating policies of companies have their own perks. Everyone will assume there is a dating ban, when in reality there isn't, and people can freely date, just without revealing it to the public . Everyone around Hyuna and E'dawn knew they were dating. Cube knew and was fine with it. But fans and public assumed Pentagon can't date. Not sure if Hyuna was underbthe same expectation. But she was in a completely different position than her partner career wise. The way she dropped the dating news on public without consulting E'dawn was not fair. And she did realize it later. As of dating idols working together to generate profit... Idk. Not everyone can mix their personal and work lives, and forcing it on them would not be more ethical than the dating ban.
Mamamoo never had any dating bans after debut, not sure about before debut. I'm sure there are more groups like this, than we assume, but they are the only ones who were allowed to say it/said it.
For some, there might be a ban for the first year or two after the debut. Which is a bit reasonable? Not in an ideal world, but in reality we live in.
But the thing is, I'm sure people date with or without permision from their company. I'm sure most of them do. And they won't be kicked out from a debuted group, even if their companies find out and are not too happy. I'm sure that if they find the capacity in their lives and people they want to date, they date. So in a way, dating ban is an illusion for fan s and general public.
But if straight idol dating rights are in a bad situation, non-straight idol rights are non-existent whatsoever. Those JYP trainees who got kicked out for dating. Were they supposed to be in the same group? I don't remember. Kai Baekhyun, Jihyo and others still survived his dating scandals. Hyuna thrived in it. Would their careers have survived a gay dating scandal? Imo, not likely. Gay people, which I'm sure there are some, with so many groups we have in kpop, are in an even worse situation. I just don't want to forget them when talking about idol dating, because they deserve rights too.
All that said, of course dating should be something idols can do freely and publicly. So... support Tannie? Don't hate on them if they break up even if you are not their fan? Because how they get treated affects how your artist will get treated when they go public with their dating. If we make it better for one couple, it's progress.
only related to the thumbnail and not the very eloquently worded video, but the big thing a lot of people forget about the Dawn/Hyuna dating scandal is that *cube doesn't have a dating ban* so they broke zero rules. They just publically contradicted the company and got axed for it. 5 years and I'm still not over it lol.
Bts is my ult group and the thing i want more for them is to find love! But now that they're taking a break i've realized how fucking intense their schedule has been these past 10 years and i really wonder how much time they had to cultivate friendships and relationships, which is extremely sad :( I kinda get why trainees and new groups don't date, especially when they're minors (it's fine for teens to date, but it's also pretty normal for people to date for the first time in their twenties), i think it's reasonable for companies to want them to focus on their training and first activities as a group, but at the same time i think this is not the sole reason. Trainees and new groups most likely do not have dating on their mind and want to work hard and focus on their goal. I think that the main reason is the whole parasocial relationship thing, which is totally crazy especially when they're adults with their own lives and stuff. I've noticed how demonized jennie has been as she's had a few (?? Idk) 'public' relationships. She's been slutshamed and trult torn apart and its extremely unfair, she's just dating. Why cant they put this energy towards more serious matters, like when idols are truly horrid people or have biases towards people of other races and sexualities?
I think idols deserve their privacy though, most of their lives are put on a pedestal so maybe the existence of this type of culture can be helpful from this point of view
the funny thing is most trainees and idols date. Those dating bans have never stopped anyone from it, older idols say it all the times in their intervieuws lmfao. You really have to be in denial to actually think young and good looking people are gonna stop themselves from having relashionships for whatever reason
Great video, also you have a lovely voice!
I hope this doesn’t sound strange but when this video autoplayed I was pleasantly surprised to hear your dulcent tones
Thank you! From now on, I am only referring to my voice as "dulcet tones" 😂
YESSSS the industry violates human rights left right and center daily so yeah, youd think they feel bad about stopping idols from dating??? lol, I dont agree with it, but its not gonna change in our lifetimes....
You have no say if your a foreigner!
very interesting video on the topic. also off topic but i love your voice and your way to phrase things!
Thank you!
I think on a musical level, a problem I have with K-Pop is that so often the music feels really generic, like it's manufactured for the widest possible audience possible. I really like how autobiographical, even confessional, a lot of R&B, rap, indie, country, and rock music is in the US/west. I think about Fleetwood Mac releasing Rumors, Ariana Grande singing about her exes on Thank U Next, Beyonce releasing Lemonade about how she healed from Jay-Z's affair, or the way Kanye West can rap so openly about being bipolar. When K-Pop prevents idols from sharing information about their personal lives, they limit artistic expression in a really profound way. The music feels less honest. Removing the dating ban could push Korean pop forward.
Yep, just like bts said in a song "you want us to write love song without ever dating"
in the end kpop in general is a very far fetched extension of the real world. If you have financial gain from a competitive field, you have to compete with other people who are the standard and because of that, the standard gets higher and higher. Its a flaw in the system. In the end you would need to have at least a minimum wage for fields that are competitive like art and entertainment, but where does this money come from, because the income comes from sales. Same with the parasocial relationships. People crave connection and because its so hard in a lot of parts in the world to get that, they search for it in something like kpop. The bottom line is money in every case here, and that companies and the ones who have that money, arent willing to take risks.
Amazing video! I think idols should 100% be allowed to date. I think that in most cases it's best to keep it private. At least until they start to build a family and stuff. Not only for the sake of fan service but also just for their own privacy. I see a lot of people saying they don't care if their idol dates but they just don't want to know about it and I understand where they are coming from. However if they're dating another idol they could definitely profit off of that. With collabs and stuff. Though I imagine that could be hard for the relationship if they don't manage to keep business and private life separate.
I totally agree with the fact that it can be profitable! but I think it would be for groups with a bigger international fanbase. I honestly think that ateez, for example, could manage to get enough support from international fans as atinys are quite "old" and don't really seemed to be against them dating.
werent y'all the ones coping hard and being in denial when that picture of yuno and his gf were leaked ?
@@aureliesene4487 lmao that scandal never was a serious one and only the kside found a problem (especially on pann)
@@riamalia9966 well i saw some i fans on twitter coping hard, so definitely it wasnt only k fans...
Dating bans don't even help against scandals, because most dating scandals are centered around the fact that dating is such a taboo in kpop because of dating bans. If there never was dating bans, finding out that an idol was dating someone (idol or no) wouldn't be such a big thing. Like in the west, a celebrity dating another celebrity isn't a scandalous thing unless there was cheating involved.
Celebrities in the west are usually not in the business of selling illusions to the delusionals. K-pop idols are. If there is a dating ban for them, it's an informal one - Its unwise, and you should not do it, but if you do, you should make every effort to be discrete about it
From a business perspective, keeping such activities under the radar benefits both the idols and company in ways that fans who romanticize them will see them as available and will keep continuing to support them. Hardcore fans tend to be somewhat delusional and taking their "relationship" with said idol(s) a bit too seriously and personal
@@OleLeik dating bans are only beneficial from a business stand point, not protecting an idol. Celebs can keep their relationships secret or private without a dating ban. It might be hard, but it’s not impossible. Dating bans are what sells the fantasy of availability. Bc idols have to hide their relationships or are strictly forbade to get in them by their company, delulu fans take that as them being available to them. Most celebs do fan service (especially boybands, western or otherwise), kpop just takes it do another level and each generation is getting more toxic bc of it
@@samcarmen
Idols dating used to be bigger scandals back in the days to the point of being a instant career killer. Instead of attemps od damage control and people being in denial and creating their own bubble with narratives that suit the fantasy - fansites would just type the word -CLOSE- and contracts would be hold over a open flame. Its still the case in regard to the Japanese idol industry I believe
Nowadays k-pop idol companies and fans attitudes toward this has softened up a bit. I dont think dating bans actually exist there these days. Not even k-pop entertainment companies, with their infamous slave contracts, can legally get away with something like that. Although those idol contracts probably have some loosely worded clausules about "serious damage to the groups standing and income" and the trainees being told about the parasocial relationships between idols and fans they will be relying on and and that “idols shouldn’t date”.before signing the dotted line. The dating ban is a construct mainly directed towards the fan base because it’s, sad and stupid as it might be, part of the devoted fan culture.
I think causual fans should realise why they're called idols and are separate from people that are called singers and artists. Idols does not really primarily sells music and performances, what they're selling is a "relationship". Dating is something they refrain from doing or at least being public about it because of the very real fan backlash that is bound to ensue if the fans dont approve - not just backlash for the idol, their group and company, but also for who they are dating
I agree on all accounts. However one question i have is: what song is played between the sections? That is fire and I need to loop immediately.
i'm pretty sure that it's super by seventeen (their latest comeback)
I would argue that delusional fans are the backbone of most group’s success, they mass stream mass buy and invest a lot into the group in hopes they could date them when they realize they aren’t available they stop supporting them and at least for smaller groups can impact the profit
I don't know if I would say delusional fans are the backbone of most groups' success, but they definitely are for some groups (particularly ones with younger fandoms). As the average age of a kpop stan gets older and older, I think we're getting more and more rational about these kind of things. But for smaller groups with a younger audience, yeah, they would be putting themselves at risk by dating publicly
@@catchingteez yes especially for younger groups that is probably the reason a lot of companies will say that they have a dating ban for the first few years they are a group
Making a scandal of two celebrities dating, whether K-Pop idols, or K-Drama actors, is a nonsense. If both people are adults and the relationship is consensual, etc., nobody should tell them what to do, either their company, agents, or whoever. If an idol has no time for anything else than work, especially for a private life, they may end up with a severe depression and we know all too well how this ends. So idols and actors should have contractually guaranteed a free time, vacations, and free choice of starting relationships. I understand that morality and societal norms are stricter in Korea than in Western countries, still, dating ban shouldn't be one of those norms. Also, they should date while they're still young, and they should be allowed to start a family when they're older, if they wish to do so. Nobody is going to give them back their twenties, and they're not going to be any younger, otherwise when their are finally out of their companies' supervision they might be too old to find partners or to start a family.
dont worry idols do date in private anyways, its just that most of them are very secret about it for obvious reasons
I agree on the 3-7 year dating ban, but after that they should be allowed too!
I think because the career of these ‘idols’ aren’t not just selling their singing and dancing but also selling the ‘boyfriend’ or ‘girlfriend’ images too. (Not like in the Western singers)
Most of their target audiences are teens and the companies get huge profits from selling teenage fans these images. If idols actually date, that image will collapse and hardly sell anymore.
So i think idols have to accept the condition that if they wanna make money from this industry, they need to keep up with that boyfriend/girlfriend image. It’s the requirement of the job.
Otherwise they need to become the real ‘singer’ and make people focus on their songs more than their images.
ok my point is to why it might make sense is that kpop is striving to be global but since it’s a country that has short history, been divided into to and has struggled financially- unlike america - they just have to try soo hard by making idols look perfect and appealing to everyone like i believe colonialism has a part to this system honestly - they can’t afford the freedom america has tbh
I would agree that culture ties into it, and their culture was formed by everything you mentioned. Societal pressure to be upstanding and perfect is massive over there, so it only makes sense that it would spread to the idol industry
I LOVEEE YOUR CHANNEL PLZ MAKE MORE VIDEOS!!!
Above all else, it just seems silly to me. I just don't know how you can actually implement such a rule besides punishing/terminating an artist's career if they get "caught". And if it's one of your more profitable artists, then that's just dumb and it probably would have served you better to lean into the fantasy of your more profitable idol being a bit more relatable. But hey, that's just me.
Like when it was revealed that Chen was in a secret relationship and was having a baby? I gushed and thought that was fracking romantic. He needs to sell that story and have a kdrama made, stat. So I'm over here scratching my head, dumbfounded as to how anyone could have a right to be upset about this? Did no one think it was sweet and would love that happiness for themselves? Which I guess is the problem, but still. If you weren't seeing Chen regularly and he didn't impregnate you, odds are you were probably out of the running 😮💨
If the fellow was not allowed to date anyone, would that not also exclude the small army of obsessive fangirls ? But then again logic and rationally seems to be in rather short supply inside those circles
From my perspective, "dating bans" are there to protect both the idol and the fan, so that the idol-fan relationship can still be maintained for business purposes. It may be silly and unrealistic , but as long as the subject having a career that in no little degree depends on selling illusions of flirting and romantic availability - and hardcore fans tend to be somewhat delusional and take their "relationship" with said idol(s) a bit too seriously and personal........well
I think knetizens are the root of the problem. Idk but most of the time it's always them absolutely losing their sh*t if a male idol locks eyes with a female or vice versa. And the female always gets more hate. And I just know it's because majority of these fans are female and have massive insecurities and the fact that their oppars like beautiful (in a subjective way) women completely shatters their self esteem. What these ppl need as birthday gifts are not plastic surgeries but therapy appointments.
I understand dating bans on trainees regardless of their age bc its similar to why a lot of parents don't want their kids to date in high school. They are there for a reason: to learn. Sure, there are and should be moments of fun, but most of the time, dating distracts from the common goal at that stage of someone's life. But keeping a dating ban past the first year of an idol's career is just cruel. Dating bans perpetuated an idol's "availability" in the eyes of fans so now fans are just expected to be able to "have a chance" with idols because they "don't date". Underage idols should have dating restrictions, but not dating bans. Makes no sense
SM overuses yeah....
The dating ban was actually started for safety reasons. An idol named Kim Sung-jae was killed by his girlfriend in the 90s and she was able to get off.
do you know what group he was in ?
Yupp, people talk about "what's right" when they do not know the history behind it!!! It's so annoying!!
Setting aside the issue about whether or not idols should be allowed to date (they should be), "...get off my channel..." is a very trendy thing to say right now and probably not very successful. It totally changed the tone of this video.
I don't think it did, just the usual reminder every video has, which is also needed, and also is not even fully effective.
its like when people say "unfollow me" instead of using the block button.
Do not talk about "what's right" if you do not know the reasoning behind it! You have no say if your a foreigner!
seeing how people treat celebrities dating lives in american media is enough to ake me understand the sentiment behind a dating ban. american stans are so invasive and blatantly entitled to making jokes, memes, unwanted commentary and criticisms on celebrities I can see why companies just see it as something to avoid. Look at how the media treated taylor swift, shawn mendes and camila cabello, the buzz surrounding pete davidson and how he must have AmAzING dick. like, fans are stll irrational regardless of a ban.
((plus lets be honest people like lucas and wayv couldve benefitted from a ban like, one gf wasnt enough, you had to ((allegedly)) fuck over three))