This is the one ive been waiting for. Ive seen this oil clean previous carbon deposits. Cant wait. Starting right now. Great job sir! Seems to be first one to no score the side of teh piston
Running red armour in golf course this season . Machines range up to 8 years old . Hand blowers , back pack . Snippers , concrete saw. Chainsaws . Many units running daily for 4-6 months straight . Had one hand blower ( Stihl gear previously ran 50-1 Stihl mix) had the exhaust plug up after running for months (personally design flaw , it’s the one with the small exit hole that doesn’t come apart for cleaning)any how I did the usual burn off with a torch and went to check exhaust port and cylinder and piston . They where perfectly clean , looked like it just came off the show room. The unit was a BG 50 Stihl hand blower 5 years old pretty beat to death on the outside . Previously I’d have to clean out mufflers and exhaust ports by mid season on pretty much all gear except the chain saws . I’m defiantly a believer. Great product 👍👍👍
All equipment runs good until it doesn't I've been using red armor for 5 years now, the trimmers I bought 3 years ago still running strong and I use them everyday for my business I run nothing but red armor in all equipment, saves a lot of downtime
I have a 661 that’s my falling saw. Always ran with a 36” bar. I only use the VP premix at 50:1 I would like to see this and motomix from stihl. Keep up the good work.
I’d still feel better (less worried) with an ounce to the quart. Yes, I’m paranoid. I’ve also stuck/burned down engines, too - air leaks both times. More oil won’t help that issue, but the mindset that deals with checking and preventing air leaks also wants more oil.
HI Richard very good vibs man & good tools to mix fuel with, I got taught & showed something about mixing 2 stroke oil there was a 2 stroke tuner guy that told me & showed me about a mixing cup he said if you look at the oil at the top of where you are going to measure from there will be a meniscus the oil will run up the cup sidewalls I use a mixrite cup I fill the oil on the upper side of the line to compensate for the meniscus at the top of the cup you will not believe that how much oil that will be food for thought . I talk to Scott he told me to run Schaeffer 7000 @ 32:1 this is my thoughts why is because the stratification engines thy run right near stoichiometric I have been running schaeffer 7000 for a couple of weeks burns clean maybe 6 or 7 gallons , good to see you back up to parr
I run Schaeffers 7000 as well because of Scott Kunz (Tree Monkey). It's not rated for air cooled engines but it runs better than anything out there in a chainsaw. Just my .02
Clearly, I’m a bit late to the party but for the past two years or so, I had been using premixed, true fuel, and the Husqvarna premix. I just recently switched over to red armor and in my backpack blower especially I feel like I gained 5 to 800 RPMs. It runs so much better and more strong than with the pre-formulated fuels. I did not expect that at all, I’m not even sure how to explain that because that shouldn’t be the case but for whatever reason, my PB 580 really really Diggs twomix with red armor
The film on the piston and in the cases , and the clean burning characteristics are the same as my testing. I find this oil to be the cleanest burning oil I have ever used, and the saws run better with it than other oils. I am testing the carbon removal on my Poulan Wild Thing, to see if it will clean up the piston crown. I am going to run a few more tanks of fuel before I use the bore scope on it. The Wild Thing had just so so compression, but the Red Armor has restored the compression to like new. I am thinking this is a result of the film strength. Several pro's I know quit using it in their small modern saws that don't have a compression release valve, as it makes the saws hard to pull over. I slowly roll my small saws over a few times to get everything moving easily, then start them, otherwise the high compression makes the saws try to kick up when pulling the starter rope from the excess compression. On my medium saws, which are old McCullochs and Homelites, it doesn't seem to make any difference, even though I run 32-1 in them.
I took a look at Schaeffers 2 stroke oil specs, and see that it is full synthetic. I won't run full synthetic oils in my old saws, as the only times I had failures with them was with full synthetic oil. The saws I use all the time are from the 70's and early 80,s. The only two so called modern era saws I have are from 2000 and 2011, and I use Red Armor in both. So unfortunately I won't be using the Schaeffers oil to give my opinion on it.@@richardflagg3084
I popped up a info page on the oil and it said full synthetic, so that is why I won't use it. So far the Red Armor has performed great, so I am slowly changing over to it as I run out of my old stash of Bardahl VBA 2 stroke oil.@@richardflagg3084
Agreed, old saw and likely the con-rod and bearing was heated back when that jug originally got scuffed up. I tried to get a pic between 4:50 to 4:59 when you gave a quick look at it before the red armour. It it was a bit hard to make out. Looks like good film strength and good residual in thr crank case. Those older saws do a lot better on a bit more oil in their diet anyhow 😎👍. Let us know what you buy for a new one, and why you pick it 😉
I've got a spare crank. A nice D shaped combustion chamber cylinder is what I've been looking for (at a fair price). Then I just need some time to put it all back together again.
Fluid volume measurements are read at the bottom of the meniscus. "meniscus": "The curved upper surface of a nonturbulent liquid in a container that is concave if the liquid wets the container walls and convex if it does not."
Definitely looks the best thus far👌 while I'm sure it doesn't have any, the tackiness you explained almost sounds like some castor based oils for 2t bikes!
@@aaronpowell4885 I have K2 (currently) for the Zenoah (to be used in a portable DC generator). The only worry with 927 I have is that this generator might be used a handful of times a year, and for perhaps two or three hours during a (longer) session. I plan on running canned fuel, and mixing roughly 27 to 32 to one. The concern I had with 927 is due to the engine sitting in its container for months at a time. I do plan on draining fuel between runs. Am I all wet, here?
@@dennisyoung4631 I've no experience with the k2 yet but haven't heard anything bad about it. The canned fuel is a great idea for that infrequent use scenario! I've mixed 927 with 4 cycle trufuel before but haven't had a batch around for longer than 4 months so can't really speak to long term storage of 927 mixed fuel. Personally, I wouldn't think it'd be a problem in canned fuel. Just watch for separation in cold temperatures. 32:1 is also my preferred ratio!
Thanks for your continued effort! That rod end is very concerning to me, my friend. Friction was getting the best of that lower end! I don't know how one would get to the bottom of this issue without doing a complete tear down inspection to see what the reason for this overheating was. That may leave you with more questions than answer's though. Ugh! I think lubricity testing is best left to the experts and their specialized instrumentation. My sense is also that it's a bit of a black art. There are too many variables in play here. Sorry....just my opinion. Good luck!
Bummer on the saw she’s a dandy. Not surprised the red armor did well with all the hoopla. I enjoy this series! You need a lab coat with those beakers haha.
I run Husky XP+ at 40-45:1 in my autotune saws including my 572xp. Seems to work absolutely fine. I generally use the 40:1 for my smaller, zippier saws that aren't at WOT as consistently. My 545 mk2 for example. My 572xp has gotten 45:1 from the get go though and it runs great and looked great last time I took a peak
That is the same measuring glass that I use. I measure out 77 ml for a gallon, that is what Stihl and Husqvarna say is in a bottle of two cycle oil. Normally, I just squeeze the bottle of Red Armor until it is up to the 50:1 line. This is not rocket science but I do try to make the same mixtures from one gallon tank to another. That rod bearing on your 261 does not look good - a little blue. You have to watch Mtronic saws because they will over rev in a heart beat. Mine turned 14,500, and this was the reason I traded it off. I do not want a saw that turns that high without any means to limit it to my personal specifications. My guess is that 261C-M ran hot and over reved. That blue crank journal is indicative of that.
That's my theory also. If it's optimizing close to the "edge", I can almost guarantee it will fall off that edge occasionally. Good for you trading it off. Same here.
Red Armor is good stuff! Supposedly it is the exact same thing as VP Synthetic oil. The color and bottles certainly look the same so I do think VP makes this product for Echo.
I ran echo armor for years and then tried VP from Walmart. I noticed the exhaust fumes smelled the same ( I'm not a fan of the smell). This sparked my curiosity so I compared the oil color and they're identical. I'm almost positive that they're the same oil.
@@jakewells9403 good to know. They do smell very similar and they color is also very close. Who makes VP's oil? I recently switched to Amsoil Saber because it's cheaper than both VP & RA.
Besodes that connecting rod color, which doesnt make any semse with all the oil inside the crankcase lol. Not sure how you have puddles everywhere inside but the rod got burnt. I am watching these with ooen mind but i do use red armor.
I think that saws run on the same oil for extended periods really tell the tell. Also, maybe try a few more oils that saw builders use such as Schaefer’s, Bel-Ray H1-R and Maxima K2. Anyway I enjoy your channel!
I Run Schaeffers 7000 at 40:1 personally. This all started with a customers saw that ran Motomix Ultra since new and had internal issues. Have a look at the original vid titled run anything but Ultra. That's where it all began.
Richard, do you guys get Opti-2 down there? I've seen some bad results here, especially from guys who mix it at the rate on the little pre-measure package it ends up somewhere around 80:1
@@tommalone4310 Lol! That's right, 7000. It's crazy talk I know, a boat oil that works surprisingly well in a chainsaw. Have a look at redbull661 channel. There's one from a few years back with Scott's 440 with a ton of hours on it. Very impressive oil.
@@jimssawsnstuff8903 Tinman apparently runs Opti-2 🤷♂️ That guy is constantly in his saws so I would think it works well. He runs it at 40:1 though, 80:1 sounds like trouble waiting to happen. You could run Saber at that ratio and be fine. I've never used Opti-2 so I can't really comment on it other than that anecdote
I like Red Armor, but I am going to try Husqvarna XP, too. What caused that rod bearing to get hot? When I pulled the cylinder off of my ms 460 it was just slobbering with Red Armor. When I pulled the spark plug from my ms 360 after a tank of use. It’s spark plug tip was a nice looking tan color. The only thing that I did not like about it was it’s stability. It went bad in several of my saws after 6 months of storage, even though it is suppose to stabilize for two years. If I use it, again, I will add a good stabilizer to it.
There's a guy that measured the oil container of you just dump them out you will have the exact amount that's on the label the manufacturer has calculated how much stays in the bottle
Enjoying the tests.. Don't remember the big end bearing looking that discolored? That's scary. Red Armor does clean, check out their MSDS online. Red Armor is something like 35% PIB (polybutene). Great smokeless cleaner, but the jury is out if it actually lubricates? Keep testing 😃
@@richardflagg3084 Inadequate oiling will do that to a cylinder. The rod wasn't discolored before the test, then one tank later it's scuffed and the rod overheated? That's as clear of an oil failure as it gets.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I have mixed feelings about these results. That rod did not look like that before the test and it seems unlikely if the oil was doing its job that the plating would have degraded that much in one tank of fuel. At the same time if you get some pieces of chrome flakes down into the crank it's obviously gonna cause a lot of heat. It just worries me that it happened so suddenly
Think it's best over counter. Or cab buy at big srores.of course can order online these days.likeing the maxima and vp but vp is expensive. Cam get maxima cheaper .using online accounts.
I run 40:1 mix stihl synthetic HP ultra oil in my ported 066 mag with a 32” bar. Also in my 036 pro with 24” bar. Ethanol free premium always. I’m nervous running less oil ratio than 40:1. Not worth the risk imho
Not to through a monkey wrench into this because I enjoy watching Rich's videos. There is older original Red Armor and newer formula Red Armor. Manyvsay the older original Red Armor was a different formula which was better than the newer formula. The older original was Shindaiwa branded. Not sure if there is any validity to this. BUT I run the older formula with Shindaiwa on the bottle.
I'm well aware there was a formula change and the new oil seems to do very well. I'm going to start all over and do these these tests with a brand new saw. Just for science and stuff
It used to say that in the owners manual. I have not seen that in print since the 90's. Oil quality is more consistent (the cheap stuff isn't as bad as it used to be) and at 40:1 with a brand name oil you'll be good.
@richardflagg3084 agree, I also looked into that the 2 stroke oil for stihl is made by Castrol, which is good to know. I got a husky and a stihl saw and trimmer. I just run the high-end husky grade oil as this saves me having 2 cans of 2 different oils n fuel mix for each. So I just use one oil to cover all. Had the trimmer for 4 years and always used stihl hp oil, so I'm hoping if there's any difference over time going to husqvarna 2T LS+ for thr trimmer. Might be a trial n error with it.
Great advice - lately I have heard negative comments re: Stihl oil. I have a Stihl MS271 chainsaw and 8 Echo power tools. I use Stihl HP Ultra oil in the chainsaw and Echo Power Blend oil in the Echo tools. I want to use one brand of oil for all my power tools. In chainsaw, will it damage anything to go from a fully synthetic oil to a synthetic blend? Do you prefer Echo Power Blend or Echo Red Armor or ? thanks
Power Blend or Power Blend Gold are much better oils. Step up to the Echo Power Blend Gold and don't look back. Mix at 40:1 for the best results. If you buy 1 gallon premeasured mix bottles, use 0.8 gallon of gasoline for the 2.6oz of oil.
I thought everyone flushed their mix bottles or measuring containers with a little gas to ensure you’re actually getting a proper mix?? Say you use a little 1 gallon mix bottle for 50:1 if you don’t wash it out how in the hell would you ever even imagine that’s a good mix even on the 2.5 gallon mixers. A 1/4 of it stays in the bottle even if you leave it sitting upside down for a minute or 2.
I was tempted to measure the whole bottle. Someone else made a video and there was actually a little extra in the bottle than was stated. Perhaps to ensure even the lazy got 50:1 mix
@@richardflagg3084 I saw that too. I believe it was Dave's small engines, He's on with Donyboy 73 some. I figured they over filled a touch for a safety net for people using the pump to measure their fuel.
I just picked up some red armour, it’s the only FD rated oil in my area that isn’t stihl or husky. I’m curious what it looks like 32-1 I’ll tag I’ll tag you If I end up doing a video if your interested in seeing it
@@lumbearjack1439 What's your opinion on Amsoil Saber? Been thinking on switching to either Red Armor or the Saber. I've run Saber at 80:1 with no apparent issues but it still makes me nervous. I had to tune my saws for it that's for sure. I would probably run the Echo at 45:1 or so...seems like it's got a lot of film strength and looks like there's plenty of oil in the crank at 50:1. I'm not unhappy with the XP+ or anything so I don't even know why I'm thinking about it 😅
@@AnarchAngel1 personally I would never run anything less than 50, regardless of any feedback, oil doesn't just appear out of thin air, things can be ok with a certain amount but more won't hurt it and will prolong the bottom end and piston ware. I don't have ecpirenece with Saber but personally I'd be running it 32-1 same as red, just my preference
Richard, if you are going ro buy a saw for testing get a 261 without the Memtronic crap. You can adjust them to limit the RPM. I do not like EPA saws. I only have a few - my 171, 251 and ms-241 C-M. All three Ido not trust and check them with a tach every-time I run them. That slug of air the Strato carbs dump in the cylinder just leans things out to much for my tastes.
I just bought a new 261 about three weeks ago and am also interested in all 261 tests. Running Saber 50:1 for now with Ultra (from the warranty extension) collecting dust for now. Also, no Mtronic crap here either. I'm an engineer and this stuff is not made for the brutal chainsaw environment ... YET. For high reliability, environmentally sealed and accurate, Mtronic would add hundreds of dollars to the cost. The goal of Stihl was to pass EPA, hence the saw prices are almost on a par with the non-Mtronic. This does not buy you high end electronics, solenoids, wiring harnesses, connectors, or anything.
I feel ya Chris. I want something more consistent than on older saw. A new would be be a great base line to do these test. I really hate starting all over again, but I feel it's the right thing to do. Hope you can stay with me and see the results.
@@richardflagg3084 get a new saw and start with Red Armor and go through the others and then end with Red Armor. Lol. I am kinda biased. Love the stuff. Burns my eyes in the garage but love it. 40:1 all day any day.
@@christopheromeara986 I've witnessed excellent long term results with the traditional Stihl orange bottle at 40:1. It's a low tech, tried and true alternative if you you want to make a change.
Sooooooo Red Armor 50:1 blew up the saw lol. No discolored rod before the test, discolored after the test, and yet it's not the oil's fault? Sorry, gotta call bullshit on this one, the saw failed while running the Red Armor.
@@sawmanbigtreeslayer2360 Yeah I did. It just seems unlikely to me that the damage to the cylinder spontaneously got bad enough to cause the rod to heat up that much in one tank of gas. I mean obviously that didn't happen last time it was run when the plating was barely any thicker
Richard check that connecting rod color other than that Red Armour looks pretty good.
Watch to the end. You'll see the reason for the failure. It's not the oil....
That wear on cylinder was enough to get it that hot. Would have never thought that but I’m no mechanic.lol
@@richardflagg3084 great job on diagnosing the final failure reason. Apparently people are not watching the entire video.
@@sawmanbigtreeslayer2360 Apparently you run Red Armor...
@@AnarchAngel1 I do.
This is the one ive been waiting for.
Ive seen this oil clean previous carbon deposits.
Cant wait. Starting right now.
Great job sir!
Seems to be first one to no score the side of teh piston
Thanks for the content! Good stuff and keep them coming
Very nice and informative video. 👍 We appreciate the time and effort. 👍
I'm committed to it, or just a little crazy. I've got some good ideas going forward to make this a better test/sampling.
Running red armour in golf course this season . Machines range up to 8 years old . Hand blowers , back pack . Snippers , concrete saw. Chainsaws . Many units running daily for 4-6 months straight . Had one hand blower ( Stihl gear previously ran 50-1 Stihl mix) had the exhaust plug up after running for months (personally design flaw , it’s the one with the small exit hole that doesn’t come apart for cleaning)any how I did the usual burn off with a torch and went to check exhaust port and cylinder and piston . They where perfectly clean , looked like it just came off the show room. The unit was a BG 50 Stihl hand blower 5 years old pretty beat to death on the outside . Previously I’d have to clean out mufflers and exhaust ports by mid season on pretty much all gear except the chain saws . I’m defiantly a believer. Great product 👍👍👍
I run all STIHL equipment for a lawncare buisness and they all run great even on the standard Echo powerblend.
All equipment runs good until it doesn't
I've been using red armor for 5 years now, the trimmers I bought 3 years ago still running strong and I use them everyday for my business
I run nothing but red armor in all equipment, saves a lot of downtime
Looks really clean
Thank you 🙏🏾
I have a 661 that’s my falling saw. Always ran with a 36” bar. I only use the VP premix at 50:1 I would like to see this and motomix from stihl. Keep up the good work.
Oil looks good man. Sure looks like a case of just bad luck on that cylinder and extra heat at the rod end. Good stuff buddy.
Thanks god bless
Damn red armor with a win over all so far. That crap was everywhere. Lol
I’d still feel better (less worried) with an ounce to the quart. Yes, I’m paranoid. I’ve also stuck/burned down engines, too - air leaks both times.
More oil won’t help that issue, but the mindset that deals with checking and preventing air leaks also wants more oil.
Stihl ultra fumes literally give me a headache. I've switched to red armor oil. Thanks for making great videos.
Ultra definitely has a stank to it.
Thanks for confirming the noxious *Odor* of Ultra…
Can’t believe I missed this video with all my searches on red armor!! Like to see these tests again all at 40:1
Agreed!!
HI Richard very good vibs man & good tools to mix fuel with, I got taught & showed something about mixing 2 stroke oil there was a 2 stroke tuner guy that told me & showed me about a mixing cup he said if you look at the oil at the top of where you are going to measure from there will be a meniscus the oil will run up the cup sidewalls I use a mixrite cup I fill the oil on the upper side of the line to compensate for the meniscus at the top of the cup you will not believe that how much oil that will be food for thought . I talk to Scott he told me to run Schaeffer 7000 @ 32:1 this is my thoughts why is because the stratification engines thy run right near stoichiometric I have been running schaeffer 7000 for a couple of weeks burns clean maybe 6 or 7 gallons , good to see you back up to parr
I run Schaeffers 7000 as well because of Scott Kunz (Tree Monkey). It's not rated for air cooled engines but it runs better than anything out there in a chainsaw. Just my .02
Stellar oil review as usual Rich! 🤌 This makes me feel comfortable using Red Armor.
Clearly, I’m a bit late to the party but for the past two years or so, I had been using premixed, true fuel, and the Husqvarna premix. I just recently switched over to red armor and in my backpack blower especially I feel like I gained 5 to 800 RPMs. It runs so much better and more strong than with the pre-formulated fuels. I did not expect that at all, I’m not even sure how to explain that because that shouldn’t be the case but for whatever reason, my PB 580 really really Diggs twomix with red armor
The film on the piston and in the cases , and the clean burning characteristics are the same as my testing. I find this oil to be the cleanest burning oil I have ever used, and the saws run better with it than other oils. I am testing the carbon removal on my Poulan Wild Thing, to see if it will clean up the piston crown. I am going to run a few more tanks of fuel before I use the bore scope on it. The Wild Thing had just so so compression, but the Red Armor has restored the compression to like new. I am thinking this is a result of the film strength. Several pro's I know quit using it in their small modern saws that don't have a compression release valve, as it makes the saws hard to pull over. I slowly roll my small saws over a few times to get everything moving easily, then start them, otherwise the high compression makes the saws try to kick up when pulling the starter rope from the excess compression. On my medium saws, which are old McCullochs and Homelites, it doesn't seem to make any difference, even though I run 32-1 in them.
Give Schaeffers 7000 a try as well. I'd love to someone else's opinion.
I will try to find some.@@richardflagg3084
I took a look at Schaeffers 2 stroke oil specs, and see that it is full synthetic. I won't run full synthetic oils in my old saws, as the only times I had failures with them was with full synthetic oil. The saws I use all the time are from the 70's and early 80,s. The only two so called modern era saws I have are from 2000 and 2011, and I use Red Armor in both. So unfortunately I won't be using the Schaeffers oil to give my opinion on it.@@richardflagg3084
@@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156 I believe the 7000 is their semi synthetic oil. Keep using the Red Armor, It's damn fine oil.
I popped up a info page on the oil and it said full synthetic, so that is why I won't use it. So far the Red Armor has performed great, so I am slowly changing over to it as I run out of my old stash of Bardahl VBA 2 stroke oil.@@richardflagg3084
Agreed, old saw and likely the con-rod and bearing was heated back when that jug originally got scuffed up. I tried to get a pic between 4:50 to 4:59 when you gave a quick look at it before the red armour. It it was a bit hard to make out.
Looks like good film strength and good residual in thr crank case.
Those older saws do a lot better on a bit more oil in their diet anyhow 😎👍.
Let us know what you buy for a new one, and why you pick it 😉
I've got a spare crank. A nice D shaped combustion chamber cylinder is what I've been looking for (at a fair price). Then I just need some time to put it all back together again.
@@richardflagg3084 right on! You’re really getting after it lately, especially the porting side of things. Great vids and channel 😉👍
@@jimssawsnstuff8903 I've been porting for years. I like the performance work better than the repairs
@@richardflagg3084 same here! I get spoiled running my ported saws, then if I have to run a stock one I’d mostly rather use an axe 🪓 😜
@@jimssawsnstuff8903 Hah!!!
Fluid volume measurements are read at the bottom of the meniscus.
"meniscus":
"The curved upper surface of a nonturbulent liquid in a container that is concave if the liquid wets the container walls and convex if it does not."
Sorry to ask, but did you ever do the echo powerblend? I cant see it unless it happened far ahead of this video
WHAT's YOUR RECOMMENDED OIL THAT PASSES FOR FLAWLESS PERFORMANCE?
Definitely looks the best thus far👌 while I'm sure it doesn't have any, the tackiness you explained almost sounds like some castor based oils for 2t bikes!
Yes, Castor is good for buzz-bomb motors. It has an *odor.*
Some people - myself included - like that odor. It reminds me of Adams Kart track.
@@dennisyoung4631 yessir! Love the smell! Currently using maxima castor 927 in all my 2t outdoor power equipment.
@@aaronpowell4885 I have K2 (currently) for the Zenoah (to be used in a portable DC generator). The only worry with 927 I have is that this generator might be used a handful of times a year, and for perhaps two or three hours during a (longer) session. I plan on running canned fuel, and mixing roughly 27 to 32 to one. The concern I had with 927 is due to the engine sitting in its container for months at a time. I do plan on draining fuel between runs.
Am I all wet, here?
@@dennisyoung4631 I've no experience with the k2 yet but haven't heard anything bad about it. The canned fuel is a great idea for that infrequent use scenario! I've mixed 927 with 4 cycle trufuel before but haven't had a batch around for longer than 4 months so can't really speak to long term storage of 927 mixed fuel. Personally, I wouldn't think it'd be a problem in canned fuel. Just watch for separation in cold temperatures.
32:1 is also my preferred ratio!
Thanks for your continued effort! That rod end is very concerning to me, my friend. Friction was getting the best of that lower end! I don't know how one would get to the bottom of this issue without doing a complete tear down inspection to see what the reason for this overheating was. That may leave you with more questions than answer's though. Ugh! I think lubricity testing is best left to the experts and their specialized instrumentation. My sense is also that it's a bit of a black art. There are too many variables in play here. Sorry....just my opinion. Good luck!
The plating failure is more than enough to send particulate through the bearings and create friction.
might just have been too lean for all we know
The best oil, likely the extra oil wash put more chrome in those old bearings. She was swimming at 50-1 imagine 40-1?
Tanner, what do you do for work?
Bummer on the saw she’s a dandy. Not surprised the red armor did well with all the hoopla. I enjoy this series! You need a lab coat with those beakers haha.
Don't think it didn't cross my mind.
Great video Mr. Flagg , i would like to hear your opinion about what ratio you recomend on 572xp stock? , thanks in advance and keep up the good work
I run Husky XP+ at 40-45:1 in my autotune saws including my 572xp. Seems to work absolutely fine. I generally use the 40:1 for my smaller, zippier saws that aren't at WOT as consistently. My 545 mk2 for example. My 572xp has gotten 45:1 from the get go though and it runs great and looked great last time I took a peak
That is the same measuring glass that I use. I measure out 77 ml for a gallon, that is what Stihl and Husqvarna say is in a bottle of two cycle oil. Normally, I just squeeze the bottle of Red Armor until it is up to the 50:1 line. This is not rocket science but I do try to make the same mixtures from one gallon tank to another. That rod bearing on your 261 does not look good - a little blue. You have to watch Mtronic saws because they will over rev in a heart beat. Mine turned 14,500, and this was the reason I traded it off. I do not want a saw that turns that high without any means to limit it to my personal specifications. My guess is that 261C-M ran hot and over reved. That blue crank journal is indicative of that.
That's my theory also. If it's optimizing close to the "edge", I can almost guarantee it will fall off that edge occasionally. Good for you trading it off. Same here.
Get the Crank Separator Tool and Replace The Rod and Bearing and Continue on With This Saw 😊😀
😂😂😂
By tacky do you mean, high viscosity? Didn't you say the higher viscosity usually meant better the oil
Red Armor is good stuff! Supposedly it is the exact same thing as VP Synthetic oil. The color and bottles certainly look the same so I do think VP makes this product for Echo.
I ran echo armor for years and then tried VP from Walmart. I noticed the exhaust fumes smelled the same ( I'm not a fan of the smell). This sparked my curiosity so I compared the oil color and they're identical. I'm almost positive that they're the same oil.
Red armor is made by Phillips 66 not vp
@@jakewells9403 good to know. They do smell very similar and they color is also very close. Who makes VP's oil? I recently switched to Amsoil Saber because it's cheaper than both VP & RA.
@@mmholling87 Vp produces Vp. Never used saber but i only buy JASO M345 certified oils which amsoil is not according to the JASO list.
Besodes that connecting rod color, which doesnt make any semse with all the oil inside the crankcase lol. Not sure how you have puddles everywhere inside but the rod got burnt.
I am watching these with ooen mind but i do use red armor.
Oh, good. I thought I was being F.U.D.D. by using a graduated cylinder for oil measurements.
I have a 460 magnum I recently bought a 7310 and some red armor I noticed my magnum did run a little hot with red armor but 7310 did fine
Try some Dominator and see what you think.
I think that saws run on the same oil for extended periods really tell the tell. Also, maybe try a few more oils that saw builders use such as Schaefer’s, Bel-Ray H1-R and Maxima K2. Anyway I enjoy your channel!
I Run Schaeffers 7000 at 40:1 personally. This all started with a customers saw that ran Motomix Ultra since new and had internal issues. Have a look at the original vid titled run anything but Ultra. That's where it all began.
Richard, do you guys get Opti-2 down there? I've seen some bad results here, especially from guys who mix it at the rate on the little pre-measure package it ends up somewhere around 80:1
@@richardflagg3084 am I reading this right? I thought Schaeffer’s 9000 was their 2 stroke oil? I was certainly thinking of trying the 9000.
@@tommalone4310 Lol! That's right, 7000. It's crazy talk I know, a boat oil that works surprisingly well in a chainsaw. Have a look at redbull661 channel. There's one from a few years back with Scott's 440 with a ton of hours on it. Very impressive oil.
@@jimssawsnstuff8903 Tinman apparently runs Opti-2 🤷♂️ That guy is constantly in his saws so I would think it works well. He runs it at 40:1 though, 80:1 sounds like trouble waiting to happen. You could run Saber at that ratio and be fine. I've never used Opti-2 so I can't really comment on it other than that anecdote
I like Red Armor, but I am going to try Husqvarna XP, too. What caused that rod bearing to get hot? When I pulled the cylinder off of my ms 460 it was just slobbering with Red Armor. When I pulled the spark plug from my ms 360 after a tank of use. It’s spark plug tip was a nice looking tan color. The only thing that I did not like about it was it’s stability. It went bad in several of my saws after 6 months of storage, even though it is suppose to stabilize for two years. If I use it, again, I will add a good stabilizer to it.
The cylinder plating was failing. That saw has been retired for now. I'll put it back together soon with a good donor cylinder.
I run Husky xp+ at 45:1 and it does well for me. Everything looks good when I tear them down. Sometimes more oil isn't the answer
There's a guy that measured the oil container of you just dump them out you will have the exact amount that's on the label the manufacturer has calculated how much stays in the bottle
Enjoying the tests.. Don't remember the big end bearing looking that discolored? That's scary. Red Armor does clean, check out their MSDS online. Red Armor is something like 35% PIB (polybutene). Great smokeless cleaner, but the jury is out if it actually lubricates? Keep testing 😃
Not and oil failure at all. Just an old jug with some thin plating. New saw on the way! Woo Hoo!!!!!
@@richardflagg3084 Inadequate oiling will do that to a cylinder. The rod wasn't discolored before the test, then one tank later it's scuffed and the rod overheated? That's as clear of an oil failure as it gets.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I have mixed feelings about these results. That rod did not look like that before the test and it seems unlikely if the oil was doing its job that the plating would have degraded that much in one tank of fuel. At the same time if you get some pieces of chrome flakes down into the crank it's obviously gonna cause a lot of heat. It just worries me that it happened so suddenly
@@AnarchAngel1 It sure doesn't look like a good result lol. Everyone says red armor is good so I didn't expect it.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I've been thinking on switching to it from Husky XP+ but this makes me think twice....
Think it's best over counter. Or cab buy at big srores.of course can order online these days.likeing the maxima and vp but vp is expensive. Cam get maxima cheaper .using online accounts.
if you have a dirty trimmer or saw Red armor will clean it up with just 3 tanks of fuel 👍
I run 40:1 mix stihl synthetic HP ultra oil in my ported 066 mag with a 32” bar. Also in my 036 pro with 24” bar. Ethanol free premium always. I’m nervous running less oil ratio than 40:1. Not worth the risk imho
35:1 is more typical. 40:1 is leanest oil ratio I’ll run
How's the carbon build up with the Ultra? Have you pulled the muffler and taken a peek?
@@richardflagg3084 I'll take a look and let you know. I just got some of the Echo red to try out next
Not to through a monkey wrench into this because I enjoy watching Rich's videos. There is older original Red Armor and newer formula Red Armor.
Manyvsay the older original Red Armor was a different formula which was better than the newer formula. The older original was Shindaiwa branded. Not sure if there is any validity to this. BUT I run the older formula with Shindaiwa on the bottle.
I appreciate the input. This was not an oil failure. This was a plating failure on an older saw that had been cleaned up one too many times
I'm well aware there was a formula change and the new oil seems to do very well. I'm going to start all over and do these these tests with a brand new saw. Just for science and stuff
I was just putting that out there. Excellent tests. I appreciate everything you do on your channel here.
I got told if im using any other brand of 2 stroke oil that i need to run my saw on 25:1 instead of stihl 50:1.
It used to say that in the owners manual. I have not seen that in print since the 90's. Oil quality is more consistent (the cheap stuff isn't as bad as it used to be) and at 40:1 with a brand name oil you'll be good.
@richardflagg3084 agree, I also looked into that the 2 stroke oil for stihl is made by Castrol, which is good to know.
I got a husky and a stihl saw and trimmer. I just run the high-end husky grade oil as this saves me having 2 cans of 2 different oils n fuel mix for each. So I just use one oil to cover all. Had the trimmer for 4 years and always used stihl hp oil, so I'm hoping if there's any difference over time going to husqvarna 2T LS+ for thr trimmer. Might be a trial n error with it.
i wouldn't wipe off the red armor film on the piston. it's for protection.
Rich there are many "chemist" within a mile of you that you could borrow some measuring equipment from
I'm really not that close to TR/Marietta.......
😂😂😂😂
I heard the chemist with the least amount of teeth are usually the best.
@@jerseyjoshua4818 Hah!
Great advice - lately I have heard negative comments re: Stihl oil. I have a Stihl MS271 chainsaw and 8 Echo power tools. I use Stihl HP Ultra oil in the chainsaw and Echo Power Blend oil in the Echo tools. I want to use one brand of oil for all my power tools. In chainsaw, will it damage anything to go from a fully synthetic oil to a synthetic blend? Do you prefer Echo Power Blend or Echo Red Armor or ? thanks
Power Blend or Power Blend Gold are much better oils. Step up to the Echo Power Blend Gold and don't look back. Mix at 40:1 for the best results. If you buy 1 gallon premeasured mix bottles, use 0.8 gallon of gasoline for the 2.6oz of oil.
I thought everyone flushed their mix bottles or measuring containers with a little gas to ensure you’re actually getting a proper mix?? Say you use a little 1 gallon mix bottle for 50:1 if you don’t wash it out how in the hell would you ever even imagine that’s a good mix even on the 2.5 gallon mixers. A 1/4 of it stays in the bottle even if you leave it sitting upside down for a minute or 2.
I was tempted to measure the whole bottle. Someone else made a video and there was actually a little extra in the bottle than was stated. Perhaps to ensure even the lazy got 50:1 mix
There is extra in the bottle to account for what stays behind. Measure it out one day and you will see.
I no longer use Stihl oil. I got 80 ml out of the orange Stihl bottle, I measuered with a beaker.
@@richardflagg3084 I saw that too. I believe it was Dave's small engines, He's on with Donyboy 73 some. I figured they over filled a touch for a safety net for people using the pump to measure their fuel.
I just picked up some red armour, it’s the only FD rated oil in my area that isn’t stihl or husky. I’m curious what it looks like 32-1 I’ll tag I’ll tag you If I end up doing a video if your interested in seeing it
Nothing wrong with the Husky xp+. I wouldn't run Stihl ultra at any ratio though
@@AnarchAngel1 after running this red armour for the month, 32 - 1, I am very impressed. Little to no carbon, great film strength.
@@lumbearjack1439 What's your opinion on Amsoil Saber? Been thinking on switching to either Red Armor or the Saber. I've run Saber at 80:1 with no apparent issues but it still makes me nervous. I had to tune my saws for it that's for sure. I would probably run the Echo at 45:1 or so...seems like it's got a lot of film strength and looks like there's plenty of oil in the crank at 50:1. I'm not unhappy with the XP+ or anything so I don't even know why I'm thinking about it 😅
@@AnarchAngel1 Sabre is cheap in 1 liter(ok it’s 946ml...) so I’m running it at 40:1 after seeing good tear down videos on this channel.
@@AnarchAngel1 personally I would never run anything less than 50, regardless of any feedback, oil doesn't just appear out of thin air, things can be ok with a certain amount but more won't hurt it and will prolong the bottom end and piston ware. I don't have ecpirenece with Saber but personally I'd be running it 32-1 same as red, just my preference
Richard, if you are going ro buy a saw for testing get a 261 without the Memtronic crap. You can adjust them to limit the RPM. I do not like EPA saws. I only have a few - my 171, 251 and ms-241 C-M. All three Ido not trust and check them with a tach every-time I run them. That slug of air the Strato carbs dump in the cylinder just leans things out to much for my tastes.
I just bought a new 261 about three weeks ago and am also interested in all 261 tests. Running Saber 50:1 for now with Ultra (from the warranty extension) collecting dust for now. Also, no Mtronic crap here either. I'm an engineer and this stuff is not made for the brutal chainsaw environment ... YET. For high reliability, environmentally sealed and accurate, Mtronic would add hundreds of dollars to the cost. The goal of Stihl was to pass EPA, hence the saw prices are almost on a par with the non-Mtronic. This does not buy you high end electronics, solenoids, wiring harnesses, connectors, or anything.
😅 you know where I stand. But a very interesting video, as usual. Not liking the rod color! 🍺
If you’re going to do a scientific study you have to test all with the same saw. Not change in mid stream.
I feel ya Chris. I want something more consistent than on older saw. A new would be be a great base line to do these test. I really hate starting all over again, but I feel it's the right thing to do. Hope you can stay with me and see the results.
@@richardflagg3084 get a new saw and start with Red Armor and go through the others and then end with Red Armor. Lol. I am kinda biased. Love the stuff. Burns my eyes in the garage but love it. 40:1 all day any day.
I like the idea of the MS 261. I have a new one. Runs great. I’m just worried how the longevity of using the STIHL silver oil will hold up.
@@christopheromeara986 We're gonna test that to coin a phrase.
@@christopheromeara986 I've witnessed excellent long term results with the traditional Stihl orange bottle at 40:1. It's a low tech, tried and true alternative if you you want to make a change.
Sooooooo Red Armor 50:1 blew up the saw lol. No discolored rod before the test, discolored after the test, and yet it's not the oil's fault? Sorry, gotta call bullshit on this one, the saw failed while running the Red Armor.
Watch the whole video.
You might learn something.
Yeah honestly I saw the same thing. That rod looked fine beforehand but obviously got very hot while using the Red Armor 🤷♂️
@@AnarchAngel1 did you watch the whole video?
@@sawmanbigtreeslayer2360 Yeah I did. It just seems unlikely to me that the damage to the cylinder spontaneously got bad enough to cause the rod to heat up that much in one tank of gas. I mean obviously that didn't happen last time it was run when the plating was barely any thicker
Rinse the small bottle out with some fuel. It ain't building a Rolex or Rocket