Warm Roof vs Cold Roof. What’s The Difference?
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2021
- What's the difference between a cold roof and a warm roof?
Roger explains the benefits of both of these flat roof insulation systems and the potential problems that you might encounter when installing your flat roof.
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#WarmRoof #ColdRoof #FlatRoof
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Thanks for this. Definitely the clearest and most easy to understand explanation of a cold roof and warm roof on CZcams.
Very clear and helpful, nice video Rodger! We're always doing these sort of extensions and when the joiner talks to me about hot and cold roofs I'm always bamboozled 😂😂 look forward to see the next video on this project bud!🍻👍
Thanks Roger, excellent explanation to a bit of a head scratcher. Am going to replace my old plastic roof on my conservatory and had been trying to weigh up the best way of tackling it but you just explained it in less than 10 minutes!
Interesting stuff Rog , what a massive pain in the area for
5 “ though ! 😳.
Look forward to the build 🧱👍🏽
Great as always Rodger. I have a 15-year-old log cabin. It's perfect inside but a bit dated on the outside. I spend around £100 per year maintaining it as well as the cost of heating. I am about to insulate it on the outside all around and have the products but not 100% sure of which way to have the insulation, membrane etc. I don't want to insulate the inside as I like my LOG cabin. I have 60mm Kingspan sheets (got them cheap so can't change) a breathable membrane, PVC cladding for the walls and box profile sheets for the roof. I was intending to stitch the membrane onto the outside walls then Kingspan held with 2"x1" battens and the pvc cladding onto this. There would be the 1" air gap behind the cladding vented at the top and bottom with mesh to stop wasps etc. The roof is 20mm t&g pine and is felted. The felt needs replacing so was intending on removing this stitch the breathable membrane on top, Kingspan, 15mm OSB then the box profile sheets directly on top. Do I need to change the membrane for a vapour barrier? If so where does it go? Do I need an air gap roof or walls? Any advice would be appreciated as I'm getting conflicting messages on other forums, everybody seems to be an expert
Great video explaining in very clear way the difference between cold and warm roofs
San Francisco, California, homeowners should take note of Roger's sage advice!
It's time to thank you. I've used your videos to build 2 walls, insulate my garage and tank a wet room. You explain things so well that I understand and can question things in my head. Insulated summer house / office is next which I'm hopping to start in the next month or two. I still bring in the pro's where needed, but understanding what is going on really helps and I think just raises the standards as a whole. Thank you!
Thank you for the message on this fine sunny Easter Sunday.
Such a unique breadth and depth of knowledge from Roger, we are lucky that he is willing to share it with us. Thank you Roger! 🙏
Nice of you to say so, we try.
so unique to the extend that he redefines the dew point at 3:50. He even draws an arrow pointing at the dew
Great vid Roger, nice and simply explained.
You are the best! Thank you for the explaining.
Thank you very much for sharing, Master!
Going to be doing a garage to office conversation soon, needed this lessen. Thanks Roger
Also need a spelling lesson
@@NordenEngineering lesson. Sorry teacher.
Thanks, excellent video!
Simple answer - badly installed cold roofs are bloody freezing when the builder who owned your house doesn't air seal between the Kingspan slabs and the joists. It's basically external temperature just above the plasterboard.... 🥶
Also just found out he didn't stick a vapour barrier above the plasterboard either. 🤦♂️🤦♀️😤
Awesome explanation, Thank you. I am considering this for a project and wanted to understand it.
Excellent as always!
Thank you for a very informative and well delivered explanation. Keep up the good work.
My thanks to Skill Builder and Roger - now all i need to know about warm and cold flat roofs. Infact my new extension Surrey side of Gatwick a semi-detached and all flats are cold. my new extension will be warm and work to change my current flat roofs to warm but will leave attached neighbours as is. with some magic (in the drawings) for the builder !!
What an excellent explanation. Thank you.
This is very useful :) I'm converting my garage to a room and I'll speak to the builder what he plans to do with the moisture issue :D
I wish all tradesmen were like you Roger.
Perfect timing. Will be starting on a garage conversion soon and need a new roof. Exactly what I needed. Warm roof it is. Cheers
It really is the best option, I am very uncomfortable with this arrangement
@@SkillBuilder
Whereas in my industry (hard metal roofing) we hate warm roofs because they fail more than cold roofs.
Excellent info, thanks 👍🏻
A very informative video. Thanks for sharing
Very interesting subject. Most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But it's important you know in case of dry or wet rot. Thanks rodger👍👍
Learn something new everytime, thank you
Brilliant, thanks, really clear explanation.
Never really thought about the subject before Roger but in many big old houses they had cellar and attic spaces with air grills below the floor space for the air to circulate. I was lucky when we bought our 300 year old 3 bedroom cob cottage with a thatched roof (cold roof).
The 3 foot thick cob walls are build off a rubblestone plinth with no foundations or guttering, the ground is hard clay and stone.
There was bad damp when I moved in because the walls were cement rendered and it had been a holiday home for about 15 years which had caused all the damp issues and rotted the timbers on the damp side of the house because I have a hill behind the house whose gable end faces into the hill and in front of that there is a 25 foot deep stone lined well, the water line is about 4 feet below ground, never higher and is only low during summer. Since I put in a French drain along the back side of the house and lime rendered the place we've have no more damp issues.
The first floor ceiling is wooden lath & plaster (the walls are reed and plaster), a thick layer of haired course lime mortar and a single layer of thick top coat white lime skim 5 to 6ml thick. Another property of lime walls is they absorb moisture and CO2 and give you better acoustics than cement or gypsum, a friend in nearby Stogursey has plastered his internal walls with clay which has even more amazing qualities.
It can be expensive to do but, done well it should last a life time whereas modern builds are designed for about a 40 year life, even a strawbale, single floor structure would last a 100 years.
Above this ceiling line is the triangular shaped attic where, between the joists you can see the back of the ceiling and the folded nibs of that 200 year old, haired lime putty mortar and on top of that, between the joists are a few rolls of Rockwool insulation with a 5 foot air space before you see the underside of the straw roof. It's relatively dry. In some of the bigger houses they'd put a thick layer of tamped soil and sand which would be good for the sound proofing and insulation properties.
During the night, summer and winter, we sleep with our bedroom window open and during the day, unless somebody is home, everything is shut up.
Up the road is an equally old property which has a double-Roman, clay tiled roof, when I climbed up to look there was no roofing felt and it too was dry.
As you said on one of your rants, there's no point having an air-sourced heat pump, if the home isn't well insulated inside.
I'm house rich and cash poor and can't afford one but I would like a ground-sourced heat pipe, they do work, I would also like some solar panels please.
It would help the planet if we all had solar, wind and thermal generating capabilities with storage capacity for any excess power with every home as standard and, if you have a small garden, a compost heap is great for all your organic waste. Ours is barely large enough for the herring bone pipe to the septic tank which is emptied every year (£250) and is cheaper than the mains sewage bill I'm told.
We've go no government grants, none available, or help with lower VAT for sustainable buildings, and it was bought to be our family home and so long as it continues to be repaired with like for like materials it should last another 300 years.
keep up your interesting topic please, it's healthy when we can all rant.
* Star Wars theme plays *
I am about to do this, bloody gold.
Highly interesting....more demonstrations would be very much appreciated...thanks
The whole video will show plenty of detail but it is work in progress
Brilliant explanation Roger
learned a lot. That’s why I love this channel. Keep em comin Roger.
More videos like this Roger 👌🏼
Well that’s another new thing I have learned from you, Thankyou.
Don't forget there is an exam coming up at the end of term so make notes.
Really informative video, Roger.
Excellent job great explanation 👍
Hi lads, You know what, I am level 6 NVQ (not very qualified) site manager, level 3 carpenter and joiner, and intermediate qualifications in Brick laying, plumbing and plastering, (also a fully qualified Locksmith), with 33 years of mud on boots experience, I've forgotten more than most people actually know, but...... I literally LOVE your videos and pod casts, (only found you the other day, so alot of catching up to do),very informative entertaining AND engaging, even if you are shandy drinking Southerners. Keep up the awesome work 👌
Nige
Never touch shandy or larger. Give me a pint of best bitter any day. Unfortunately the number of pubs now serving ale are fewer than they used to be.
Worthwhile advice!
Excellent stuff. I'll now change what I was going to do with the roof of my new dormer.
So well explained!
Really love watching your videos - that are really informative particularly for a novice. I am in currently undertaking a single story rear extension and I was let down but he builder. The flat roof basically was completed with trimmers, joists etc and a GRP layer was pasted on. The roof wasn't insulated so, I got someone else to finish the job and created warm roof on top of the GRP. I asked the roofer to add in a vapour on top of the GRP and beneath the insulation. was that the right thing to do? Will this have a detrimental impact on moisture internally ? Thanks Joanne
Thank you for sharing that knowledge. In NZ we build a lean to extension with a mono-pitch roof. Plaster board 200mm joists, vapour barrier then corrugated Iron. The Insulation is Pink Batts skillion roof insulation. The insulation had to be specific due to the insulation loft limitation giving allowance for at least a 20mm gap - I now further appreciate what that gap is for. More so it gets me to thinking about flashings and how well they can release water on the inside without letting water in. Hopefully the building codes we built to are correct.
Come see the uk new builds a meter of installation double glazed windows its like being trapped in a oven. ive not closed mt windows all year ... on the inside 30 mm pipes for the plumbing 15 mins to refill a toilet.. but they are alot cheaper than million dollar nz .
@@JONO3679 Sounds like a pressure issue or restricting washers to the toilet water supply? Many 'eco' toilets these days use too little water which can cause more issues - blockages - than having a decent flush volume.
Great vid.. very informative
Great teacher, thx.
Great info thank you
Excellent stuff roger, as a building control surveyor the most common mistake is a warm roof with no decking and VCL below. Happens all the time! Every PIR supplier will ask for an 18mm deck with the VCL
Thanks James. What would you accept as a VCL? Is 1000 guage polythene suitable? I only ask because the dedicated VCL products cost a fortune.
hi
great explanation
bang to the point
Brilliant, thank you.
Good explanation cheers
Nice video Skill Builder, well explained! It can be a real headache always thinking about ventilation. Looking forward to seeing the series 👍🏻
Nicely done, I did a little office using warm deck. I stopped the joists at the wall plate, but extended the OSB and 4 inch insulation beyond to create a 200mm overhang. Then sandwiched the edge with 2x4 so I could hold it all together. I only did this to avoid creating an ugly thick fascia that was 300+ tall, instead there's a neat 150mm fascia with the gut attached.
Hi Chris
Nice to see you back. We also do that trick to reduce the fascia height
Thanks...great video
Thanks so much, just about to build a warm roof for my conservatory. Amazing to see how literally none of these "kits" do not include the ventilation for the cold roof.
Thanks so much!
Great explanation
Great job Nick 👍🏋️♀️🤺🤗
Good explanation for people that don't understand the difference. 1 thing that would be better for ventilating the dead spots created by the lantern would be to counter batten the roof the opposite direction of the joist to create a cross flow ventilation throughout the whole roof. Although you increase the deck height by 25mm you get rid of the need for unsightly mushroom vents everywhere 👍
Exactly!
ALso have to consider how much height the shrooms add and what they look like...
I did wonder when mushrooms kept being mentioned how the neighbours concerned about the height of the roof would like the mass of mushrooms there'll be instead.
great explanation.
Good video Roger. I do a bit of GRP roofing works but our boss gets us to put 100mm on top and 50mm to the under side. When I asked about vapour barrier he said with this system you don't need one.
I think you are talking about a hybrid roof there and the insulation on the underside is the vapour barrier. It will have to be well sealed.
Thank you!!
I used the 25mm multilayer foil insulation for a warm roof, supposedly equivalent to 225mm of fibre insulation, but adds no more than 40mm with the counter battens. It all seemed to work well.
I'm planning an orangery type extension on the house I'm buying.
When I put up my extension , It was a cold roof because of the design I wanted. I used foil back pb and foil taped all the underside of the joists to the foilbacked Kingspan so there could be very little chance of any moist air penetrating. Redbrick vents to the front and proprietary vent escape vents to the rear. Hmmmm, forgot about the dead spaces though, gulp ! That said, ten years in and no problems as yet.
brilliant info - would be nice to see a video showing what it looks like
It will happen but we are in the middle of it right now
Good explanation.
Great video Roger. I used to work at Rose Builders in Colchester and I did actually talk with Dillon on the phone about a possible collaboration a couple of years ago. I now work for myself in Brighton. I always prefer a warm deck roof, avoids any possibility of cold bridging through the joists and allows clear way for any penetrations in the ceiling, downlights, speakers etc. A parapet wall around the perimeter is the nicest look to hide the build up. Keep up the great work. I have a nice project starting in a couple of months. Would be great if you came down to do some filming. Regards. Dave Howells.
Hi Dave
Get in touch because I am just up the road from you and would love to come down and do some filming. Brighton would also make a change of scene
Really interesting explanation. Jaw on the floor over the 120mm issue. One more brick course on the parapet should sort that out.
I built a garage extension where I didn’t have the height for a warm roof or the joist depth to achieve the required R-Value with venting, so I used Closed Cell Spray Foam. It is allowable under the Canadian Building Code for use in unvented roofs because it acts as a vapour barrier. Pricey though.
That would never pass regulations in the uk. It doesn’t allow anything to breathe! The uk is far too damp for that type of insulation!
food for thought. i have two flat roof extensions. both had no air space, both rotted. hopefully the roofer done it right this time. i have edpm roof covers on now.
I’m stuck with a cold roof on a extension on a grade 2 listed building. 50mm air gap, 100mm of insulation and then a vapour barrier before the finished ceiling is the system I’ve gone for. Then added extra ventilation on the facias, but the vapour shouldn’t get up into the void to start with.
I did my flat roof on my lounge 15 years ago. Plaster board, fibreglass, OSB and felt. No sweating, no damp, no problems. Still as good as the day I did it. I can't help but think that a lot of this is snake oil and more money for the men in suits. Great explanation Roger, as always.
My friends house lasted four years due to moisture building up in an unventilated roof space. It is happening all over the place and it is largely due to modern building techniques.
I think I would have preferred looking at a flat roof rather than a dozen mushrooms poking out of a roof.
...yeppp, that sums up what the neighbours sowed.
I like it, they think they got something to moan about ! Now look at my mushroom farm.
Top advice !
Built an extension on my house under the new cold roof insulation regulations, resulting in a permanently cold room, took the roof off 18 months later and made it a warm roof, now have a lovely warm room.
The clue is in the name I suppose
Hi Roger, thanks for such a detailed explanation, I finally understand! We are building a cabin in our garden (for us to live in whilst we do our house renovation). The builder has done a cold roof, but not put OSB boards on top. He has a membrane directly above the joists (where the insulation will be), the battens, then our metal roofing will go on top of that. Im a little confused as I thought you would always have boards on top of the roof, but I guess this way you solve the issue of ventilation/allowing vapour to escape? For peace of mind can you confirm you dont need OSB boards on top? Thanks so much!
the best build channel imo
Thank you, we try hard
Very good video Roger 👍
My questions 👇
So what is your recommendation for roof construction / insulation for
- a warm & humid climate with cool air-conditioning inside
- a warm, wet & hot climate with “humidity control with cool air-conditioning inside”
- insulating concrete slab roof & concrete walls, in hot & wet climates with cool air-conditioning with water condensing on walls & ceiling
What about MVHR, with humidity control, as an addition to air-conditioning
Look forward to your reply. It may mean a whole new video, I suppose 👍
verry informative
crazy how the neighbours would be annoyed if the roof was 120mm higher... I would NEVER EVER EVER be that kind of neighbour. Why would they object to 120mm? What difference will 120mm make to them? Crazy! Anyway, thanks for the video! Very helpful
Warm or cold roof, always avoid moist getting in the construction from the warm side of the construction, Make a 100% damp sealing above the plaster board.
Really enjoy watching your videos and on a very steep learning curve as starting from pretty much zero. I am building a warm roof but feel like I need two layers of vapour barriers. My garden room will house tropical plants. It is heated and insulated with 50 to 100mm PIR depending on location. I need to protect the inside of the roof (OSB) from rising moisture and there will be quite a bit of it as I water plants in the room. What's the right solution?
I have the Dupont Tyvek membrane and was thinking from inside to outside:
Membrane over joists, OSB, PIR, OSB, membrane then finish with felt
Hopes that makes sense and look fwd to your opinion. Warmest thanks Jerome
I think i would have gone a cross the 9x2s with tile batten so the whole roof is connected and reduce the number of roof vents. Not only is all them mushroom vents going to cost a lot especially as they have to be built into the roof covering, they will look facking ugly.
Good vid Roger 👍
Hi Tony
Good idea but we had the deck down and we were going with the warm roof so we didn't want to rip it all up and counter batten. Also the counter batten doesn't give enough cross ventilation on its own. The whole thing is a ball ache and it is all down to a neighbour who said it was O.K and then said it wasn't.
@@SkillBuilder Remember- never ask the question if you don't want the answer. If you have permission for the higher warm roof, go with it, and don't ask the neighbours for their opinion
@@rossbuchanan7632 ...building regs? It sounded to me like there was a veiled mention of the fact that some arch holes can be nay bores. i for one wouldn't like to challenge a regulatíon and have to rip off the roof and then live with the people who opposed me in court. Ridiculous though, that it's a matter of less than a foot.
@@SkillBuilder Had loads of grief with neighbours. Not about height, they just don't like seeing people get on! Can't win, don't even try. Do what's best for you! Just make sure you stay within your rights. They will complain !
@@danieljones741
Tends to be, there's max heights your allowed with no permission, anymore you need to consult neighbors.
Great explanation! In a conservatory where the roof is plastic and the beams are aluminium, as there’s no wood, would mould still be an issue in a cold roof scenario if you’re using something like recticel for the insulation, is the ventilation still as important?
Great video.
Can I ask if kingspan over the top floor ceiling will create moisture or will this be warm air on warm side of insulation? (this is a pitched roof loft so plenty of space above but we were wanting to put green loft boards over the kingspan also
I'm surprised the neighbour is even aware of the 'options'. This is what was granted permission, these are the plans and dimensions, and this is what is getting built!
I have a large flat roof over a kitchen, 75mm fibreglass between the joist with cross ventilation from soffit into the pitched roof void. Its 45 years old and its fine - the fibreglass gets a bit damp in the winter but it always drys out quickly enough.
The original chipboard deck failed after 10 years so I re-boarded it with marine ply and had high performance polyester felt laid on top. 35 years later still no leaks.
Sometimes low tech works just fine.
What a great video these cold roofs are getting a pain sometimes height problems,vent problems,how much fall changes from place to place then hybrid roofs are coming more common to save height and also different ideas on what vapour barrier to use building inspectors say different things too
I am nervous about hybrid roofs
Thank you : )
Hi, Love your video, never watched others that actually put confidence in me. Can I ask a question? I am insulating (cold roof) my workshop but only have 65mm/2.5inch joists. I can either get 30mm or 40mm PIR leaving either a 25mm or 35mm gap for the ventilation. I have soffit vents all the way across and a open channel the other end for ait flow.. Would you go for the 30 or 40mm PIR? is 25mm air gap enough? thanks!
Apparently in the states they are specifying tissue based pir board insulation when used with a separate vapour barrier. All to do only allowing one vapour barrier. It's constantly changing.
Nice video. I've got a small extension poorly insulated. I need to insulate it with celotex. I was told to cut to size and slot them into the spaces and there should be enough room for them to breath. I don't there is a vapour barrier, will that be OK? Cheers
A CZcams channel called Steve roofer shows a good ventilation detail on the flashing, well worth consideration
We know that channel well and he is great. We have used that ventilation detail in the past but, as you may see it would have come up above the parapet wall and upset the neighbour
@@SkillBuilder ...ahhh the poor neighbour, can i picture a forage on the roof, Monty Python style?
Surely you had plans which the neighbours could have objected to before the build commenced?
@@georgeturner6648
Orangery are permitted developments, within certain parameters.
Then it's permission from the neighbors.
They may of had permission, but then the neighbors changed their mind, and to stop the ball ache of courts and council. Which you may or may not win. Especially if you lose you have to pull it down.
Sometimes it's easier in the long run to just go to what's permitted without neighbors consent.
Ever thought about fitting cross battens running the opposite way to the joists,this creates a continuous air flow of 20mm. No need for mushroom vent. As long as you have.front and rear air soffit/ facia and abutment vents.
Can also set the circular saw to 20mm and cut a notch out the joists. Obviously it slightly weakens the joists but we usually over engineer flat roofs anyway! Iv done it that way before and was really fast and much better than drilling holes as they get clogged easily
Always counterbatten cold roofs for cross flow.job done
@@chriscoulson7684 You're not a structural engineer are you! Notching out the top or bottom of a joist doesn't 'slightly weaken' it - it is the worst place to cut it. The bottom is in tension
and the top is in compression - somewhere in the middle on the neutral axis there is no stress.
Brilliantly explained 👍👍 mushroom vents will look rubbish though 😊 cant you just cross Batten above the joist with OSB board above to vent the roof ? This would rise it 2” though .
Hmm. Well, when we build ships we pack the steel against with rockwool hard up. The main issue is stopping the air getting to the steel - or wood - to condense. Given that we have humidity levels at near 100% and a temperature difference of sometimes 90C between machinery rooms and the sea it works fine. I did a roof 12 years ago and used 100mm of Celotex foil backed and sealed it solid so no vapour could reach the OSB and then another 100mm of Rockwool to add even more insulation and fire proofing. No issues at all. As for the plasterboard - I used foil backed and fitted sealed downlighters.
So the neighbours would rather see a mushroom field !
👍👌 Good video. Thanks, 👍
The GRP mushrooms cost the guts of 70 euro a piece here in ireland. We tend to use them sparingly.
Nice one...
Hi, thanks for the video. Very informative. I'm part way through the purchase of an edwardian money pit which the wife loves - so hard to say no. The attic above the main living space has already been converted to a bedroom but the attic above the back bedroom and bathroom hasn't been done. It is about 20 meters long and has a pitched roof. I was hoping to fit celotex between the rafters (leaving a 50mm airgap) and then fitting a layer of insulated board to the rafters to improve the thermal insulation (as 50mm celotex won't be that great). This would allow me to board the space out and have a nice bit of storage there. Question is: how to ensure airflow through the air gap behind the celotex on the pitched roof? Thanks.
Question. How do you deal with Link Detached garages. It looks like Im going to do a cold roof but what should I look out for and avoid when taking my neighbours flat roof into account. Thank you.
Jeez, that's interesting I did a substantial repair job on my roof myself (Cold roof) I did my research and I knew the principle of the through flow of air and I didn't really do a great deal of work so I assumed the existing structure would work in the way it was designed. I had serious condensation problem. The previous owner - my father in law had put fibre glass in between the joists laying directly on top of the ceiling plaster board. My analysis of the problem was the moisture was getting through the boarding, and then hitting the cold air beneath the tiles the condensation accumulating under the tiles and dripping into the fibre glass and eventually making contact with the plaster board. I felt that the fibreglass that was filling almost all of the cavity and was reducing the air-flow and replaced that with GRP. That then left a good gap for the air flow. Not had any problems since (4-5 years now) so assumed I'd done a decent job. I'm going to check that out when the weathers good. PS it's a very shallow angled roof 25 degrees. Good vid.