Where Did The Quran Get Its Religious Vocabulary From? | Marijn van Putten PhD
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 06. 2022
- Foreign Loan Words In The Quran | Marijn van Putten PhD
Check out Dr. Marijn van Putten links: 🔥
His new book:
brill.com/view/title/61587
Book:👉 www.amazon.com/Grammar-Awjila...
Academia SIte: 👉 leidenuniv.academia.edu/Marij...
Dr. van Putten's Patreon: 👉 / phdnix
==================================
Sign up for the 7 hour resurrection debate between Dr's Bart Ehrman & Mike Licona here
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/res...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Genesis "In The Beginning" Webinar here: www.mythvisionpodcast.com/gen...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here:
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/chr...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Did Jesus call himself God webinar: www.mythvisionpodcast.com/bart
==================================
Please consider helping support MythVision's work by joining the Patreon or a one time donation through my links below.
🔥 GoFundMe link for MythVision to go to Israel 🔥 gofund.me/23b43d8a
GET RECOMMENDED BOOKS HERE: 👉 amzn.to/35FqNYf
MythVision Website: 🔥 mythvisionpodcast.com/
MythVision Patreon 👉 / mythvision
MythVision Paypal. 👉 www.paypal.me/dereklambert7
Cashapp: 👉 $rewiredaddiction
Venmo: 👉 @Derek-Lambert-9
Recommeded books 👉 amzn.to/35FqNYf
Email MythVision 👉 mythvisionpodcast@gmail.com
Facebook page: 👉 / mythvision
Facebook group: 👉 / thewaterboyzradio
Twitter: 👉 / derekpodcast
Instagram: 👉 / dereklambert_7
MythVision Discord: / discord
#Quran #MarijnVanPutin #MythVision
"Your native language is the language of Shakespeare and Milton and The Bible" - from Pygmalion, by George Bernard Shaw. Still one of my favorite language jokes.
Very Interesting. I'm a Muslim and I love when Islam is examined from an academic perspective that is unbiased
What Sekt of Islam do you particularly follow, I am interested?
@@habibiehe is a Muslim don't divide in sects
@@KingAkib77 lie, I was suni.
@@habibie ohh then great sunni means those who follow the sunnah
@@KingAkib77 what about shias? What about Ahmedyas, and so on. Islam has many sects.
More scholars on Islam, please 🙏. Thank you for all you do, D!
More scholars on Islam please? He has bought on the best: Robert Hoyland, Stephen Shoemaker, Sean Anthony, Hythem Sidky etc what more does one want?
There are foreign words in every language, nothing magically pops into existence in a vacuum.
God can 'magically pop' words into any ancient text.
@@donaldmcronald8989 your approach is respectfully skewed and illogical.
The interest here is a high degree of Aramaic and the geographic disconnect to the place of alleged origination and it's purer form expected. Would Medinan scribes write in this manner, at this time, or would a higher than expected usage of Aramaic indicate a Persi-Syrian influence? That's important and potentially investigatable.
@@tychocollapse absolutely i dont have an issue with that. Good point.
@@tychocollapse You already stated my point
The foreign vocabulary of the Quran was recognized by many Islamic scholars of the Middle Ages! People like Jarir at-Tabari, Jalaaluddiin as-Suyuuti. Al-Jawaaliiqi also recognized them. But many of these words were already part of the language at the dawn of Islam so what exactly is the big deal? Many of us have known this and it's hardly surprising that languages have word flows from one to another. Harold Mutzki pointed out that the identifiable foreign vocabulary of the Quran, constituting a few percent of the total, were well and truly part and parcel of the language. English has many words coming either directly from Latin or many more via Norman French. All words we have that end in '-ion' and '-al' are of French origin but deemed English words. So if you say: "The principal idea behind identification of French words is endings like 'ion' and '-al' etc." , means you are still speaking English and NOT broken French! 😂
That’s exactly what he said in this video. He said that you can tell from the form of Aramaic from which these words were borrowed that they were borrowed many centuries before the foundation of Islam, and indeed, before the Syriac Christian stories were introduced to Arabia, so the words can’t have been borrowed from Syriac speaking Christians as had previously been thought. The words were already borrowed into Arabic before that.
What this does seem to provide difficulty for, however, which I have heard a lot of Muslims say, is that Mohammed, as an illiterate merchant, had never heard of any of these monotheistic Abrahamic ideas before, but only knew of paganism, and that this is proof of divine revelation. He hadn’t heard any of this before, so it could only have been revealed to him from on high. However, both these earlier linguistic borrowings of words with Abrahamic monotheistic meanings and their use in the Quran without giving an explanation, and the presence of inscriptions of Christian prayers in pre-Islamic Arabic, and the known presence of Syriac Christian stories in pre-Islamic Arabia, all suggest that Abrahamic monotheism was well known in Arabia at the time of the Prophet, suggesting he would have been aware of these stories from human sources.
@Will Mosse "that Mohammed, as an illiterate merchant, had never heard of any of these monotheistic Abrahamic ideas before,"...I am not sure on what authority anyone could claim that. There is clear and authentic prophetic tradition that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Arabs of the time were practicing the Abrahimic religion with a polytheistic twist. There are at least a couple of people who quit polytheism before Prophet Mohamed and attempted to follow the way of Abrahim (الحنفية) pbuh. Even when the message was revealed to Muhammed (pbuh), his wife at the time, Khadija, took him to her cousin who was a learned christian at the time. I am no scholar but by knowing a tiny bit about Islamic literature, one can easily debunk many of these claims.
I also find some parts of the discourse are lacking obvious nuances. The Quran makes clear claims that it is meant for everyone. Therefore, the Quran addressing other monotheistic, polytheistic or atheistic beliefs is rather expected. It is very possible that it may have offered new knowledge to the Arab tribes of the time...this is clearly mentioned in some verses of the Quran where it tells the prophet that this Quran has tought you and your people things that you may never have learnt by yourselves. One can go on.
Anyway, not a bad effort.
@@sbgf4674 Okay, that’s interesting, thanks. Especially that thing about Khadija taking Mohammed to see a learned Christian. I have heard several people make the claim, both in person, and in videos I have seen. It must be something that does the rounds among Muslims who are less informed than yourself. Cheers
@@willmosse3684 to elaborate a little more on what the brother above said...
The cousin he's referring to is named Waraqa (RA), in English it translates to "Paper"...
Waraqa (RA) knew that Mohamad (SAW) would become a profit due to him realizing that the voice that spoke to him was Jibreel (SAW) which is the Arabic name for Gabriel.
He realizes this from the consistency of Jibreel (SAW) and wished he could live long enough to support the prophet when his people start to oppress him and try to run him out.
I forgot to mention, Khadija (RA) figured out that the voice that spoke to Mohamad (SAW) was an angel before it was revealed to him (SAW) out of sheer intelligence.
She just didn't know which angel at first
As a religious Muslim, I applaud such studies and the discussions i have listened to in this video. It increases my own understanding of the Quran. Thank you. As long as discussions are kept factual and from well respected scholars, you will gain increasing respect from Muslim community.
Are you a Hadithist
Thank you bro for providing us with such great content. As a Muslim I am very grateful for such information about Islam because in my background we could not ask such questions about the Quran. Please provide more of such content.
We’re all learning here man 👍🏻 with these videos and just in life in general.
As an ex Muslim I agree. This is indeed fascinating
@@mmss3199 😂😂😂
Nice, you cured a poison with another poison
@@thenun1846 fascinating! the dude doesn't even know that Arabic and aramic are related languages
"As a Muslim... because in my background we could not ask questions about the Qur'aan..."
Why can you not read by yourself for yourself? Why do you need to ask others?
As an Arabic speaker I must say that I really enjoyed the discussion, you are really making your deep intellectual work available to a layman in a very convenient channel.
The loanwords are genius, when they are used in Quran, it's an extra dimension extra clue to the demographics of the narrative or a background on the subject it's amazingly coherent and not many people know this connection with loan words giving more to the narratives depth
The term 'fitra' in its quranic use is of ethiopian origin. So it was probably imported by early muslims returning from the first hijra to christian Abyssinia. This correlates well with its first use in a late mekkan surah. Ibn Abbas was initially not able to understand the term.
@@amuthi1 cope
@@KhanKhan-uw4gr Thanks, but I'm totally fine with that.
@@amuthi1it's not, it's from the word fitr or futur.
The 2 languages exchanged from each other for centuries anyways, no new thing that's supposed to downplay the divinity of the quran
@@Im_Sanenough Obviously Ibn Abbas did not understand the meaning of fitrah in the beginning. So it was rather obscure to native arabic speakers.
I enjoy these scholars of Quran and Bible who talks about Original text, original language, historial background behing the existence of Quran and Bible (Hebrew Bible, Old Testament, New Testament). More of them please.
Very informative talk. Thanks!
Thanks for the book. Interesting discussion.
This was good. Cheers bro.
I really enjoyed this, but at 8:40 he says that the existence of loanwords have finally been accepted, even by apologists (ie Muslims). This is absurd, because the existence of these loanwords have been extensively studied by Islamic scholars since 1200 years ago. One of the leading Arabic grammarians of all time, the Egyptian al-Suyuti, wrote an entire book about the non-Arab words that can be found in the Qur'an: he found 120-something loanwords. This was 500 years ago.
I think he meant Christian apologists, but I can be wrong.
Lol they always think they described something new but our scholars of old May Allah have mercy on them all already discussed these things not to mention they refuted all the weak arguments against Islam Christian apologists think they discovered now …. It’s very entertaining to hear their weak arguments and it’s a great blessing to be a Muslim 🙏🏽
But there are some words that are not comppatible with the meaning of arabic at that time in which the transilattors guesed and the quran contains words not limited to aramoic or surean but as well as other languages.
He is talking about Muslim apologists TODAY who have gotten back around to accepting the conclusions already made by Muslim scholars ages ago, but this time made by modern secular scholars. Apologists are not scholars. They are (often misguided) defenders of the faith who try to defend THEIR specific (and often completely mistaken) understanding of the faith that is mainstream in THEIR culture, often in rejection of THEIR OWN older established traditions.
In Christianity these are usually biblical literalists who ignore literally a thousand years' worth of Christian tradition to treat the crazier parts of the Bible as metaphor.
Derek, have you considered inviting Dr. Ashraf Ezzat (Egyptologist)? The author of “Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses”? Here are some CZcams videos from his channel (Ashraf Ezzat).
Why are the Pyramids not mentioned in the Bible?
Duration: 8:22
Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses.
Duration: 7:54
Delivering Egypt from the Exodus
Duration: 7:52
The Exodus - The Untold Story
Duration: 2:38
Why didn’t Egypt convert after the 10 Plagues?
Duration: 7:52
Exodus Debunked: Slave trade was not common in Egypt
Duration: 7:52
In what language did God write the Ten Commandments?
Duration: 9:55
Joseph the Patriarch is Arabian (Eye opening)
Duration: 10:37
Why are the Pyramids not mentioned in the Bible?
Duration: 8:22
Fascinating content. 🙏🏼
This is truly excellent Derek and Dr Marjin. Thanks for such an informative presentation
Islam seems to be getting the whipping of a lifetime with all the Marijn van Putten and Robert Hoyland interviews
@@inquisitivemind007 loving it. I'm an ex Muslim and just when I thought I found out everything about Islam, another manure truck backs up to unload another pile of 💩
@@thenun1846 🤣
@@inquisitivemind007 bruh literally the definition of dumb and dumber 😂😂
Well actually they got 2million dollars to disprove the authenticity of the quran but they couldnt. Islam haters are very silent on this one 😂
Might be a stupid question, but how do we know some of those words are indeed loaned from Aramaic? eg the word Nabi was used by Hebrew before Aramaic. So how do we know it was not a naturally evolving word from the common ancestral language of Hebrew Aramaic and Arabic? Why do we assert its Aramaic and its loaned when, it’s been there a lot longer ago..?
I guess they do it by comparing many various texts and establishing certain patterns. Like lets say you have a word in Arabic and similar word in Hebrew and then another one in Aramaic. Then you can look into databases of hebrew texts and aramaic ones and see what is the oldest known occurence of a given word. But you are right that because we only have very limited amount of manuscripts so such speculations are always of rather probabilistic nature. You can never be 100% sure.
Congratulations on the grant, Professor Doktor van Putten
OK. I think Derek is a mind reader!!! LOL. I hope your family & you are having the best time. And thank you so much for keeping the content going on vacation.💚
Instaclick! We are mythvision!
Thank You Dr. Marijn van Putten.
"Kitab" comes the verb, "keteba," meaning to write. "Mekteb" is a desk or "place of writing." And "Mekteba" is an office.
In the proper Arabic, the e and o vowels do not exist, only the three vowels of short and long "a, aa; i, ii; u, uu"
So, it is "Kitaab", verb is "Kataba", "ma-" = place where the action of the verb takes place "Maktab" and its feminine "+ -at" "Maktabat or simply Maktaba" as opposed to "mi-" generally instrumental of the action "Miktaab"!
@@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156 arabic doesnt have e, o, cha, pa etc...arabaic is deficient language, that si why quraan is unclear and nonsense book, even araabs don't understand quraan..
@@scienceseekerresearcher6130 LOL
what a bullshit.
@@scienceseekerresearcher6130 It's not your thing. So eat your salad and keep silent.
@@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156my dude, not a single latin letter exists in Arabic. Therefore it’s not just “e” and “o”. Arabic has its own alphabet with its own letters. But when it comes to sounds, “e” does exist, depending on which Latin spelling you are using as transliteration. For example, in almost all languages that use Latin script, the letter “e” makes the same sound as short Arabic vowel created with “fatha” over the letter. Therefore, Mekteb is phonetically correct spelling in every language using latin alphabet while Maktab can also be phonetically correct but only in English. Likewise Keteba is phonetically the only correct way of spelling it in almost all languages using the latin script, while Kataba can also be used but only in English.
Next time he is on @Mythvision Podcast ask him about the word Fum in surah 2 verse 61. Thanks
Islam is the absolute truth.
This is interesting how you explained and I liked thank you so much
18:15 Kindergarten is used in American English but despite strong cultural influences, through movies & tv it is almost never used in Britain or Ireland. Where I'm from ( Ireland), Crêche is the word used for 'pre-school ' . In England, 'play-school ' is often preferred.
As an American English speaker I much prefer British English. Not familiar enough with Irish English to have an opinion it, but I’m sure it’s #2. 😎
One tangential point regarding loan words into English, and the examples on the slide at 16:00. Regarding the words for aristocratic rulers, we don’t actually have Counts in England. We retained the old English aristocratic title Earl for that rank, while we did take the French titles for the other aristocratic ranks. One reason posited for this is that the French title Count, or Comte, sounded rather too much like the English word for a certain part of the female anatomy. Interestingly, however, the wife of an Earl is a Countess, and the territory he ruled a County. So we did borrow the word in those secondary forms.
The English Earl replaced the continental Count because the peerage system was inherited from Normandy. In William the Conqueror's time, the English still used the two-tier noble hierarchy - inherited from Canute's Danish royal line - of a king and his jarls. Earl (jarl) was the English title for what the continentals called a Duke. William himself was a Duke. When William took England, he inherited a kingdom with multiple lineages of the same rank as his own. He then basically demoted everyone who shared his rank (the Earls) one rank lower, so that they became the equivalent of continental Counts. He had to do this because he also chose to retain hia holdings in Normandy, which required him to retain his title of Duke of Normandy, vassal to the king of the French. He damn well couldn't have the Earls claim to be the same rank in the continent. However, he retained the administrative form of counties used in France, so that name got imported for the dominions of his Earls. Countess was used because the Norse origin of the word Earl (jarl) excluded the possibility of a female form.
The English not using Count has nothing to do with what the word sounds like in modern English. Cunt only gained its current meaning in the eighteenth century.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Fair enough mate on the Cunt thing 😄 Always good to debunk an urban myth. I am not 100% on the Norse/Canute Earl comes from Jarl thing though. The Anglo-Saxon title Eorldaman or Eorl had been around in England for a long time before Canute showed up. Eorl and Jarl are cognates from related Germanic languages, but I think the title goes back to the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms.
Good additional info on the reason the Earl title was retained relating to William's rank of Duke in Normandy, thanks. I don't think it contradicts anything I said, other than the speculative Cunt myth, but it is useful. It requires a bit more explanation to completely make sense, as the English aristocratic system inludes multiple French titles - Duke, Marquess and Viscount (not sure if the French have Barons), so it stands out having this one title that is Anglo-Saxon, not just as against Duke, but as against all the French titles. Plus, the title Duke was not introduced to England until, iirc, the reign of Edward I.
So, with this info, my educated speculation would be that the first thing that happened was that William said, "you are all Earls, but Earl is the equivalent of Count where I come from, and I am a Duke, which is above Counts and therefore Earls". This is why the title Earl remains, but his wife and lands have titles based on the word Count. Then, over the following centuries the titles of Duke, Marquess and Viscount were imported from France, with Duke and Marquess ranked above Earl; and Viscount ranked below. And Baron, which originally had been a generic word used to describe all lords, for some reason became a rank in it's own right, placed below all the others in seniority.
This all brings us back to the same point visa-vis this video, however, that there is no rank of Count in England, despite their being all these other French origin titles.
@@willmosse3684 Oh, I didn't mean the word Earl came from the Danes. I meant that the noble hierarchy at the time was inherited from Canute, and its simpler organization was a result of Jarls being closer to the king in his short-lived dynasty than the Eorls were to, say, Aethelred, making them the equivalent of Dukes by the time Anglo-Saxons regained power briefly under Harold. The word itself was, as you said, already present in Anglo-Saxon times.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Cool
I hope you get to interview Professor Al-Jallad soon
must watch: Sherif Gaber, too,
has created a video "What you don't know about the Quran".
Entertainig video! Although these are - obviously - serious topics.
Sherif's video is objectively terrible.
Many of these loan words make perfect sense as Hebrew words, especially malakut. This discussion of how it made it to the Quran, from Syriac or Geez, is a bit funny if you don't consider the possibility that it came directly from Hebrew. Many Arabic tribes were mixed with Jews and were considerably Judaized in the 7th century, especially those living in Medina. I don't see why not assume that these words came directly from Hebrew.
They all directly Arabic! On the other hand, he is following the tradition that were before him, to turn the Qur'aan not only it is a human written book like the Bibles but also to promote Christian Bibles in different languages which are imposible to be without the Jews Bibles!
@@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156 the Quran is a copy pasted book from jewish Talmud and Gnostic Christian gospels
@@TingTong2568
Then quote for me which Aayat (= sign; translated as verse) or Aayaat (plural of Aayat), and show the Aayat and the Suurat (translated as chapter) correct numbers, and the one it is coming from its correct translation!
Almost 24 hours and no answer from you from the Jewish Talmud and the Christian Gnostics! You, always the gibberish talk!
@@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156 quran is also human written book, for example in quran in surah kahf, allah doesnt know how many sleepers were there inside the cave with the dog...also he doesnt know earth is NOT flat...quran says buraqk donnkkey flies in space and split moon.....and also God of abraham doesn't say he will give 7 2 whooris.
@@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156 aayat is not sign, aayat means verse, in arabic sign means ishaa'ra
All, and I do mean ALL languages are a combination of the vocabulary generated by an indigenous people as well as loan words from other languages. It is when these loan words enter into the vocabulary of an indigenous language and are absorbed into the morphology, phonology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics of the native vocabulary that they become an integral part of the indigenous language.
According to the French orientalist Joseph Ernest Renan, one of the strangest things that have occurred in the history of humanity is spread of the Arabic language. At first, it was unknown. Suddenly, it started in full perfection, flexible, rich, and complete. It has neither childhood nor aging... [and it] exceeded its counterparts by the variety of its meanings and perfection of its structures. (qtd. in Arabic in World Languages, p.9
Outstanding discussion. I'm just finishing reading "The Quran and its Biblical Reflexes" by M. Durie. For anyone interested in this topic I recommended it very highly. Fascinating linguistic discussion on several ideas in the Quran (like the concepts of Messiah, spirit, Satan...) and what they mean in the Quran.
On a note of Loanwords
''Myth'' in Mythvision is a loanword from the Greek ''Mythos''
An ancient Greek word which only means "story"
@@letsomethingshine Some people make a distinction between Myth and Mythos
The turish word for book is kitab obviously derived from Arabic, language is shared in different parts of the world.
I can't read Arabic but when the Quran is read I understand certain word,may Allah (swt) bless you all thank you for your studies.
How can turkish be derived from arabic when arabic is a younger language?
@@murielpucoe9213Arabic is older language Plus Turkish has been evolved over time'
@@KingAkib77 arabic started evolving from aramaic when the sermons, the lectionaries and the reciting prayers were written for the arabic christians who later became muslims and incorporated them into the quran. Thats why the beginning of the quran is full of aramaic words. The poetic verses are hymns and poems from st Ephrem whose hymns were about the Light of the world(jesus) and the first harvest of grapes. And The duties of the Believer which is a reciting poem , was changed and bastardized to suit the immoral relationship of more than one wife.
Say, “If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur’an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants.”
The Quran 17:88
Or do they say, ‘He invented it?’ Say, ‘Then produce ten chapters like it, invented, and call upon whomever you can, besides God, if you are truthful.’ But if they fail to answer you, know that it was revealed with God’s knowledge, and that there is no god but He. Will you then submit?
The Quran 11:13-14
Is "Admiral" an English word? Yes. Is "Sheriff" an English word word? Yes. Both have Arabic origin. Does that make them non-English? No.
This extra mega super duper interesting!!
Great linguïst and scholar👍🏼.
Derek, Selah means weigh. At the end of the psalms it means weigh (deeply consider, contemplate) this (the concepts in the psalm.
This guy was given £2 million to tell us, practically nothing.
"So, the main conclusion of the book really is that the Qur'an was originally composed in the hijazi Arabic dialect, that is, the Arabic of the Red Sea Coast in Saudi Arabia today. Which is where Mecca/Medina are, that is, you know, where the traditional story tells us that that the text was supposed to have been composed and revealed. This is what the tradition tells us, of course, but still, which makes a lot of sense but, actually that's been a very controversial topic especially in Western academia." ~Dr. Marijn van Putten
It seems like you were disappointed.
Came expecting the normal disingenious, anti-muslim, orientalist polemics. Was pleasantly surprised to see a genuine scholar platformed. Many thanks Derek. And much respect to Marijn.
Arabic and Aramaic are related languages so Duhhh this is Basic!
No Aramaic is one of the ingredients that make up Arabic and not the other way around.
Hahaha waste of money right
Loan words mean u already have words in the present language and you borrowed it , but in arabic the word for prophet is nabi and so many others described .hence they are not loan words but sister languages like same words used , examples are Spanish and Portuguese.😊
If borrowed from the same proto language is not really borrowing, is it.
One that's possibly borrowed from different proto language is the word firdaus (name of heaven). Which probably from Persia (a proto indo European origin). It's sounds like paradise.
🙂
some of the words mentioned by Mr. Van Putten are Akkadian , Such as Malak-out adding this part -out is used commonly ... Akkadian considered the mother language of Arabic , Aramaic ,Syriac and Hebrew .
In the case of "Christ", that would be "christos" in the Greek, but in the Quran doesn't it appear as 'al massih' ,which would be from meshiach, a Hebrew word ?
Muslim here figuring out life. Hardly watched anything, but I'll insert a positive comment cuz why not. I think it's deeply appreciable, Derek, that you have a certain interest in these kinds of subjects and it's even more admirable that you're able to get top-level academics and researchers into this.
When are you gonna' discuss Kamal Salibi's work?
I didn't know the Arabic word siraat is related to the word street
The word ‘Malakoot’ ملكوت occurs four times in the Quran:
وَكَذَ ٰلِكَ نُرِیۤ إِبۡرَ ٰهِیمَ مَلَكُوتَ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَ ٰتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ وَلِیَكُونَ مِنَ ٱلۡمُوقِنِینَ 6:75
6:75 Thus did We show Abraham _malakoot_ of the heavens and the earth that he might be of those possessing certainty.
أَوَ لَمۡ یَنظُرُوا۟ فِی مَلَكُوتِ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَ ٰتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ وَمَا خَلَقَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَیۡءࣲ وَأَنۡ عَسَىٰۤ أَن یَكُونَ قَدِ ٱقۡتَرَبَ أَجَلُهُمۡۖ فَبِأَیِّ حَدِیثِۭ بَعۡدَهُۥ یُؤۡمِنُون 7:185
7:185 Have they not considered _malakoot_ of the heavens and the earth, and what things God has created, and that it may be that their own term draws nigh? In what fact after this will they believe.
23:88 قُلۡ مَنۢ بِیَدِهِۦ مَلَكُوتُ كُلِّ شَیۡءࣲ وَهُوَ یُجِیرُ وَلَا یُجَارُ عَلَیۡهِ إِن كُنتُمۡ تَعۡلَمُونَ
23:88 Say, In whose hands _malakoot_ of all things, protecting all, while none can seek protection against Him? Tell me, if you have any knowledge.
36:81 أَوَ لَیۡسَ ٱلَّذِی خَلَقَ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَ ٰتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضَ بِقَـٰدِرٍ عَلَىٰۤ أَن یَخۡلُقَ مِثۡلَهُمۚ بَلَىٰ وَهُوَ ٱلۡخَلَّـٰقُ ٱلۡعَلِیمُ
36:82 إِنَّمَاۤ أَمۡرُهُۥۤ إِذَاۤ أَرَادَ شَیۡءًا أَن یَقُولَ لَهُۥ كُن فَیَكُونُ
36:83 فَسُبۡحَـٰنَ ٱلَّذِی بِیَدِهِۦ مَلَكُوتُ كُلِّ شَیۡءࣲ وَإِلَیۡهِ تُرۡجَعُونَ
36:81 Is He who created the heavens and earth not able to create others like these people? Of course He is! He is indeed the Supreme Creator, the All Knowing
36:82 when He decrees a thing, He need only say, Be! and it is
36:83 So glory be to Him who has _malakoot_ of all things. It is to Him that you will all be brought back.
First of all as you can see the term kingdom of heaven does not occur at all. It is always heavens and earth. You kept saying ‘kingdom of heaven’ but the least you can say then is ‘kingdom of heavens and earth’. You are trying to tie it to the Christian Bible which never uses kingdom of heaven and earth. It is always kingdom of heaven. Why don’t you add ‘the earth’ too. Why the obfuscation? I don’t get it. You call yourself a scholar. Be honest.
Second, the term malakoot is best translated as dominion not kingdom. Using the term kingdom does not convey the same meaning. The translation of kingdom in Arabic is مملكة like in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or مملكة العربية السعودية
Also, there are other terms similar to _malakoot_ such as:
_jabaroot_ جبروت
_taghoot_ طاغوت
_rahaboot_ رهبوت
_rahamoot_ رحموت
They have the same ending as _malakoot_ What do you do with that? How do you explain that?
The term 'fitra' in its quranic use is of ethiopian origin. So it was probably imported by early muslims returning from the first hijra to christian Abyssinia. This correlates well with its first use in a late mekkan surah. Ibn Abbas was initially not able to understand the term.
The Hejaz (Hicaz) variety of pomegranate is superb, a beautiful strong flavour and balanced sweetness and acidity.
So , the Quran is from hijaz (mecca and madina ) if i am not wrong correct me . Is that what Dr Marjin said
The Uthmanic quran uses the dialecy of the hejaz which leads Marijn to believe it was composed there.
@@imaginx806 This was linguistic evidence i believe
Facinating!
Don't forget that the sematic languages are very similar as an example Canaanites ancient language similar to Arabic , Hebrew and Aramaic as well and you need to take in consideration the spoken language and dialect of the Arabs of Quriesh and Yathreb in that period of time !! But no doubt that the language of the Quran the style and the eloquence were new to the famous Arabia Poets and language speeches
So quick question:
We know that Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic, etc all share a common parent language, right? So could it be that because of the amount of religious terminology in Aramaic at the time, because of the fact Jesus spoke Aramaic and the whole religious movement prior to the time of Mohammed, that when the Quran was revealed in Arabic, the language was still in a state of development and simply needed the loanwords or that the languages were still so close that they both used the same words for certain things?
I think a good way to approach this question is by understanding a simple fact from an Islamic view that the reason we see such is because God is using layman's terms to explain the layman.
We also know from historical records that the Jews and Christians were present among thr tribes and Muhammad interacted with them.
So in summary, the miracle of the Quran is the language itself because you have to understand that Quran is like a poetry. That is why the pagans called Mohammad a poet. Simply put, Quranic language is a language like Shakespeare for example or Milton which is high class English and eloquent. That's what the Quranic text is as well. High class and eloquent because Arabs loved poetry. Hence, God revealed Quran in a poetic manner.
As if i read a verse in Quran saying this is a book in.pure Arabic
Muslims have claimed its a perfect heavenly language
First, when you see a similar vocab. That is due to the same family language Arabic,Aramaic, and Hebrew belong to.
Second, the Torah , Bible, and Quran came to the same people in the same area that is the middleeast. Thus, when it talks about the same stories, it aims to modify them from the changes and corruption. These similarities are reasonable. It belongs to the area.
I'd disagree 50:00 the people at that time thought muhammad brought foreign words, the Quran itself is proof
When it is said to them, “Prostrate to the Most Compassionate,” they ask “What is ar rahman‘the Most Compassionate’? (25:60)
There are some of them who listen to you, but when they depart from you, they say to those ˹believers˺ gifted with knowledge, “What did he just say?” These are the ones whose hearts Allah has sealed and who follow their desires.(47:16)
Derek you realize you can build accredited university courses with a lot of your material right?
If only Muslims were interested in listening to these kafir Western scholars, they could actually learn something interesting and useful!
It definitely tells you that the author of the Quran, Allah the almighty is all knowing of all languages and tongues and it’s so mysterious and interesting to us as human creation to comprehend frictions of his knowledge.. SubhanaAllah
سبحان الله العظيم
The term 'fitra' in its quranic use is of ethiopian origin. So it was probably imported by early muslims returning from the first hijra to christian Abyssinia. This correlates well with its first use in a late mekkan surah. Ibn Abbas was initially not able to understand the term.
It shows that allah was not giving any revelation because he was confused and mixing languages ... didnt he know what language the people spoke??
Allhamdulliah brother, Allah knew Semitic languages!
@@murielpucoe9213the word used from different languages were used in a way that is logical in the sentence, they are not "confused" that's a completely false statement, there is no word that gets misunderstood.
For example john the Baptist is actually called yohanan but arabs call him yahya, so the quran reveals his name as yahya but says that allah gave him hananan, this word is in arabic and it has a meaning, but it's also linguistically correlated to the name of john the Baptist in hebrew, which is yohanan.
Infact the quran uses appropriately and makes a linguistic and definitive depth
@@amuthi1I don't get how this matters or means anything really, you're telling me ibin abbas didn't understand it, the disciple of the prophet, so how could the illiterate prophet know what it means? If we assume what you said is even right that is.
This is just more proof of the divinity tbh, indepth parallelism in language linguists and meanings which creates a miracle
Muslims claim mohamed started pure monothiesm but there were jews,christians of all types,and Abrahamic monothiest in medina,mecca and great yemeni civilisation.
Then polythiesm was there especilly by among others yememis
He keeps saying that the words are ultimately from Aramaic, but many of them can be traced back further to Hebrew. Or at least, they have very very similarl cognates.
It is interesting that you mention this. It is normal as the Quran uses abrahamic locution. It uses the words that Abraham Moses etc used in the story. It uses the same language term that Allah uses when giving the revelation to Abraham and Moses. It is as simple as that. If a Chinese prophet was mentioned in the Quran then we would have some Chinese words when his stories were des ribed especially when speech is included.
So which different languages might flow into this so-called "abrahamic locution" (which seem to conceal more than to clarify)? Hebrew, old aramaeic, ethiopian, yemeni, arabic?
Maybe you can tell us. Who came first the egg or the chicken.
I am really confused watching this introduction.
The religious terminology of the Quran is borrowed from Aramaic, implying that Islam is somehow related to Judaism and Christianity. Almost as if it developed later than these two, but secretly used them as a basis?
Is this leading up to a shocker, like Islam is an Abrahamic faith?
yes abraham is muslim according to quran
Should we not also ask - were these words not part of Arabic at the relevant time?
@Yassin Zao I agree. So why the scholars are corrupting people by talking about foreign words from Ethiopia and Syria in the Qur'an? It is normal to have words from other lands in one's language. We have Arabic, English, Persian, Hindi etc. in Bengali.
Hi Myth Vision, there are two other you tubers in secular Islam that you should interview, if you haven't already. Odon LaFontaine, though he is French he does some interview in English. And Dan Gibson, he is Canadian, if hard to find add Islam as a keyword.
Dan Gibson's Petra theory is a piece of junk and has been refuted by academic David King 🤴
@@inquisitivemind007 I don't know about him. Science only works by refutation, so it's not a surprise that both have been refuted.
@@inquisitivemind007 have you looked into AJ Deus his 2016 paper:
SURA 2: MANY QIBLAS? I wonder why no one mentions his findings, i know hes not a real academic stil...
@@krisc3371 I'll have a look
@@inquisitivemind007 Petra provides the only location where the muslims could have successfully lived through the mekkan blockade.
Arent arabic, aramaic and hebrew from the same root?
The true meaning of polytheism (shirk) is embedded in QS 30:31-32. You'll only understand it if you are to read the word Deen (currently translated religion) to it's original meaning. The word Deen دين is more than a religion. It's a system. the word تمدن (tamaddun/civilization) or مدني (madani/civilized) come from the same root of دين (Deen) and دن (dana). which those 2 word correlates to the meaning of a system. a system of do and get result / cause and effect. like maliki yau mid deen. the day of judgement (the day when u get the result). which means a mudun (city) is a place of a system. madani is people of a system. tamaddun is civilization. which makes us think what could ma-deen-ah means? when words ends with the ة ta marbutah, they usually relates to Allah. ma - a place of, deenah - system of God. so when you see the ayah 30:31-32 you know that whenever the Jerusalem/Darussalam was erected (42:13 - an aqimuddeen, established the system) , there will come a day after few generations that the people of covenant break their oath then become shirk (23:53 - they have broken their promise to mantain the establishment of the system). what system? the one Noah, Moses (through Joshua and Caleb), Jesus (through hawariyun), and Muhammad (through rashidun) had establshed. and once again the promise was broken by the arabs (7:34). they have broken the promise of 42:13
The Ethiopic words in Quranic Arabic is so interesting. I wish I could learn specifically more about that because Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew are comparatively more accessible
At 38:00 the Aramaic shifting some consonants into spirantized forms, is this related to Hebrew's use of changing pronunciation of ב פ ד כ when it has a dagesh or doesn't. When does this shift take place?
I think you will find this interesting.
czcams.com/video/XXNthM3yx5U/video.html
Hebrew is a little more complicated in when they give a dagesh than following a vowel, but it's not totally unlike that either. More often than not for example a bet will go to vet following a vowel.
@@jacobbarker544 I have read before that the Hebrew sound changes are related to Aramaic.
@@stevenv6463 There were some sound changes for example in Mishnaic Hebrew where you had -ים go to -ין, but I'm not sure what you mean when it comes to these. Do you think you could point me to it so I understand what you mean?
@@stevenv6463 I contend that the Masoretic notes preserve an older pronunciation where we still find shifts between bet and vet and pey and fey and all the others, so it would be unlikely that that's all from Aramaic, though we do find a few Aramaic phrases and loan words, such as Jacob telling his Aramaic servants tomrun (say) to my lord Esau. It seems these things are included fitting context rather than being a part of a already heavily Aramized Hebrew. Otherwise referencing a previous example we wouldn't still have those old im endings as the standard in Biblical Hebrew.
Speculation pure. Subjective Interpretation.
It doesn’t really matter Arabic is one of the ancient and well structured languages only few are left. English and latin were changed to the core
Dr Van Putten seems to be a fan of Prof Al-Jallad LOL ... bt I love how academics build on each other's work if they personally see some validity in it... I mean, one person/team cannot undertake all aspects of a single subject, right?... it's just too massive an undertaking not withstanding the funding needed and all...
Or do they say, ‘He invented it?’ Say, ‘Then produce ten chapters like it, invented, and call upon whomever you can, besides God, if you are truthful.’ But if they fail to answer you, know that it was revealed with God’s knowledge, and that there is no god but He. Will you then submit?
The Quran 11:13-14
The prophet received it from Gabriel, who squeezed him very hard so that we was in a state to receive it in his heart, almost killed him many times. That’s where the words are coming from. We can explore the science of why squeezing is needed to receive such communication, but it’s to do with becoming more centripetal, which enables perfected non-destructive wave compression.
Soon Muslims will make majority in Western countries 😍😍😍😍😍😍
Mathematic in arabic may interest.

وَٱلسَّمَآءِ وَٱلطَّارِقِ (1) وَمَآ أَدۡرَىٰكَ مَا ٱلطَّارِقُ (2) ٱلنَّجۡمُ ٱلثَّاقِبُ (3) إِن كُلُّ نَفۡسٖ لَّمَّا عَلَيۡهَا حَافِظٞ (4) فَلۡيَنظُرِ ٱلۡإِنسَٰنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ (5) خُلِقَ مِن مَّآءٖ دَافِقٖ (6) يَخۡرُجُ مِنۢ بَيۡنِ ٱلصُّلۡبِ وَٱلتَّرَآئِبِ (7) إِنَّهُۥ عَلَىٰ رَجۡعِهِۦ لَقَادِرٞ (8) يَوۡمَ تُبۡلَى ٱلسَّرَآئِرُ (9) فَمَا لَهُۥ مِن قُوَّةٖ وَلَا نَاصِرٖ (10) وَٱلسَّمَآءِ ذَاتِ ٱلرَّجۡعِ (11) وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ ذَاتِ ٱلصَّدۡعِ (12) إِنَّهُۥ لَقَوۡلٞ فَصۡلٞ (13) وَمَا هُوَ بِٱلۡهَزۡلِ . القران الكريم
I dont know if i am ignorant or not but I don't think this guy understands that arabic and Aramaic have similarities or arabic may have adopted some foreign words so they will have similarities. Many of the words he showed were used by pagans at time of prophet.
Could the Aramaic loan words in Arabic and Ethiopic be dated to the first century CE? That might indicate they were learned from the mouths of very early Christian apostles?
The term 'fitra' in its quranic use is of ethiopian origin. So it was probably importet by early muslims returning from the first hijra to christian Abyssinia. Ibn Abbas was initially not able to understand the term.
‘Salman the Persian’ was behind it all… He was the architect who put it all together.
Really, How do you know who Salman the persian was?
@@Oxygen11115 It's mentioned in the Armenian Chronicle of Thomas Artsruni which was written shortly after 905AD
"...at this very time there was another hermit in the regions of Persia who had a pupil called Salman. At the hour of his death the hermit gave him these instructions: “My son, on my death do not remain in this land lest you lose your faith among the infidels. But go to the regions of Egypt to dwell in the numerous company of brethren, so that you may gain your soul.” When the hermit died, Salman intended to carry out his instructions. On his journey he happened to come to the city of Madiam; he had knowledge of the Scriptures, though not a perfect one. [103] When Mahmet saw him, he summoned him and attached him to him, and ordered him to write a book of laws for his nation at the hand of Abut‘uraba the Ismaelite; for he himself did not know writing or reading. Salman agreed to write for him and set down a composite book, some of it from accurate memory, other parts being imaginary sayings. But Mahmet himself, moved by a raving spirit, had him write perverse [things], of which we shall give brief extracts...."
@@inquisitivemind007
Your source clearly took info from Islamic sources and twisted it. It also refutes his claim, his claim is that Salman the Persian "was behind it all ", Yet your source claims that Mahmed dictated the book to him.
@@Oxygen11115 that is for the historians to decide who took/twisted from who. There is another 8th century Armenian priest named Lemond who wrote this in his History of the Armenians "...as to your statement that "Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John have written the Gospel", I know that this truth, recognized by us Christians, disturbs you, such that you seek to find accomplices for your lie. You would rather have us declare that it was written by God and brought down from the heavens, as you do for your Furqan, although we know that it was 'Umar, Abu Turab, and Salman the Persian, who composed that, even though you have deceitfully publicized that God sent it down from the heavens....."
@@inquisitivemind007 But abrahamic God doesn't say 'do good and you get 7 2 whooris " :D ..
If the Prophet Mummad came with the quaran, he must habe been a genius. A marvelous litteratur peace of work!
This information provides difficulty for the claim, which I have heard a lot of Muslims make, that Mohammed, as an illiterate merchant, had never heard of any of these monotheistic Abrahamic ideas before, but only knew of paganism, and that this is proof of divine revelation. He hadn’t heard any of this before, so it could only have been revealed to him from on-high. However, both these earlier linguistic borrowings of words with Abrahamic monotheistic meanings and their use in the Quran without giving an explanation, and the presence of inscriptions of Christian prayers in pre-Islamic Arabic, and the known presence of Syriac Christian stories in pre-Islamic Arabia, all suggest that Abrahamic monotheism was well known in Arabia at the time of the Prophet, suggesting he would have been aware of these stories from very human sources.
He said the quran was written where they says it was written but does he realise that it was revised several times? Those who revised it probable were from southern Arabia.
No, it wasn’t. This hypothesis has been debunked by discoveries of manuscripts that confirm the already established Islamic narrative.
Who are the other 2 PhDs and Post docs Marijn Van Putten is working with?
I hope Hythem Sidky and Sohaib Saeed are part of the team
Like their work
Yes it is true as a Muslim some word or name in the Quran aren't originally arabic. This happens because somethings Arabs called with foreign name when Quran mentioned them mentioned with the name Arabs knew in order they can know what allah means to them
Very interresting. If Arabic has a lot of borrowed words from Aramaic, then the arabs are those that speak the closest to none other than Jesus. Since the language Jesus spoke was aramaic. And if you look up the word God in the aramaic dictonary it is Allah and/-or Ellah which are two words combined into (Al-Lah and/-or El-Lah) which means the same translated into(The God). Very very interresting.
You will maind blowing if know that Muhammad pbuh not pure arabic, there little from aramaic. ❤❤
@Kuswanto brother I'm muslim al7amdulilah.
@@chucklarock8010 Alhumdulillaah. I am also a Muslim who lives in Indonesia, to be precise in East Java near Bali. I am happy that Islam is studied and becomes a scientific discussion in various countries. We people in Indonesia are predominantly Muslim but only a few have a literacy tradition. We prefer to follow religious scholars or experts who have credibility and can be accounted for. ( i am using google translate 🫠)
@@kuswanto6488 MashAllah, many people don't know that Indonesia has the most muslim people on earth :D insha Allah I will go to Indonesia to visit. No problem google trasnlate is very good :D
21:37 and in Hebrew
*What about Persian words?*
yes, the name of heaven FIRDAUS/PARADISE/PARADEISOUS...
It could be argued that “deen” is also Persian
Is it like The Jewish Scriptures when u talk of subtle idolatry? Like when in the Ancient World where they believes they would open a statue in a way to let a deity enter it as they believed was going on so they could worship on their terms and in control of it while god was against that all?
Is that what u mean by Subtle Idolatry?
Great vidéo. However I have some reservations: the word Kitab/book have its root from the Arab pagan God Kotub the patron of scribes.
Pagan Meccans included Jesus and Marry superficially into their pantheon and had their depictions inside Kabaa, they also included the Jewish God, by adopting the figure of Abraham and moving certain genesis stories from Birsheva to Mecca and having the Abraham alter next to Kaaba.
When pagans tried to describe Mohammed faith, they described him as Sabean (most probably mandean) and not Jewish or Christian. They also called him crazy and poet, so clearly didn't understand the concept of his message.
According to the Qoran, the biggest obstacle that made meccans refuse and even redecule Islam was the notion of afterlife/resurrection and Day of judgment using materialistic argument and perspective and even calling that concept some myths of ancient civilizations. (Their usual argument was : how dry bones can come back to life, and why your God cannot be seen?)
The archaic Aramaic in Qoran isn't a big deal bc the religious narrative says that qoran came in the Arabic of Ishmail son of Abraham who is also an Islamic prophet. The genesis story happens in Mecca in the Islamic version so like English (Norman french/local english) the same kind of duality happened between Ishmael and local arabs of Banu Jorhom. Just for clarification: manat wasn't popular among most arabs but she was very popular among gamblers, Alat and AL uzza (godess of fertility) were separate bc AL Uzza used a black woman as a vessel in her temple, and the lady was killed in the temple in front of her priests by Muslims during the life of Mohammed. Alat godess of heaven had her own abstract idol. Alat is the mother of Manat and AL Uzza from Houbal (equivalent of Zeus or Baal)
The root k-t-b means to write across various Semitic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) and I have never heard of any connection to a God called "Kotub" let alone that this God even existed in history (whom I am going to boldly assume you just made up).
@@MrEVAQ just bc you are an ignorant or les educated about something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or made up, and O won't post links here bc of your arrogant attitude, God Kuttub كتبى was a minor god in the pantheon, specific to writing and scribes and since most people were illiterate it make sense that he wasn't so popular. My point is that the Arabic work for book has ancient root in the pagan religion and not from Aramaic.
@@gostavoadolfos2023 I think that the burden of evidence is on you with this one. I've never heard of such a God and a source would be greatly appreciated and would vanish all doubt if you are correct. And it should be noted that the root k-t-b is present in Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic. As said in this video, it cannot be that all 3 languages derived this root from a common ancestral language some 4,000 years ago because the speakers of this common ancestral language would not have written anything, and thus would have no word to describe anything writing (especially Arabic which started being written much later than both Hebrew and Aramaic as far as we know). Therefore the likeliest explanation as I see it is that Arabic borrowed the root from either language.
@@MrEVAQ الكُتبي: أحد الآلهة الأقل شهرة لدى الأنباط. يقال إن لهذا الإله معبد في غايا وكان أيضًا يُبجّل في إرَم. هناك التباس فيما يتعلق بتحديد ما إذا كان هذا الإله مذكّرًا أم مؤنّثًا. في غايا، يُعتقد أن الإله أنثى، وبالتالي يُطلق عليه اسم الكُتبى. هناك حالات يُعتقد فيها أن الإله مذكر، على سبيل المثال في القُصرت في مصر، والإله يسمى كُتبي. غالبية الأدلة تقود إلى الاعتقاد بأن هذا الإله هو أنثى، لأن هناك أحجارٌ مقدسة من الكُتبة تشبه في تصميمها أحجار العُزّى.source : Healey, John F. The Religion of the Nabataeans: A Conspectus. Leiden: EJ. Brill, 2001
@@MrEVAQ I ve put the text in arabic to make it hard on you for your disrespectful attitude 😏 the source in English so you can dive into the entire book.
We Muslims are in unique position because we follow the way of all Prophets including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh).
1. Greetings.
2. Prostration while praying.
3. Circumcision.
4. Animal Sacrifice
and lot more.
55:00 lmao Dr Marjin is clearly on our team monotheism side
read 3:81 & 16:103
2 Al Kitab
2 Languages
Peace
You said it you don’t know well enough!
The word used for Hell in the Qur'an is جحيم (jahim) which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for hell גֵיהִנוֹם (gehinnom) which itself comes from the name of the valley just south of Jerusalem call the Valley (ha-geh) of the son of Hinnom (ha-ben hinnom) where, according to the Hebrew Bible, children where immolated (burned alive) in sacrifice to the Ammonite god Moloch. In other words, the mouthpiece of God (Allah) the Archangel Gabriel (Jibril) in his supposed revelations to Muhammed is using a word for "hell" that comes from an obscure reference to a place that would have meant absolutely nothing to the Arabs of Mecca, and yet somehow the Arabs understand it. This is only one of many, many strange "borrowings" Muhammed used to create his Qur'anic "revelations".
Dude's voice sounds like one of the nutters on ancient aliens
David childress I believe is his name. He always get you with the ol' "you cant help but conclude...." Rhetoric lol
Yes, selah and salah are the same and mean prayer.
👍