How Did Islam Begin?
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- How Did Islam Begin?
In this video I hope to give the viewer a few reasons why we want to evaluate Islam and its origins through a critical approach just as we do when researching Bible, Christianity, Judaism any other religion.
Sources:
1) The Death of a Prophet: The End of Muhammad’s Life and the Beginnings of Islam (Divinations: Rereading Late Ancient Religion) By Stephen J. Shoemaker October 29th, 2015
2) Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam by Sean Anthony April 21st, 2020
3) Seeing Islam as Others Saw It: A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian Writings on Early Islam (Studies in Late Antiquity and Early Islam) by Robert G. Hoyland January 1, 1998
4) After The Prophet: The Epic Story of The Shia-Sunni Split in Islam by Leslie Hazleton September 7th, 2010
5) See MythVision Islam Playlist - • Islam MythVision
=================================
Sign up here for the course - The Ancient Greek Mysteries & Christianity
👉 mythvisionpodc...
Sign up for the 7 hour resurrection debate between Dr's Bart Ehrman & Mike Licona here
www.mythvision...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Genesis "In The Beginning" Webinar here: www.mythvision...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here:
www.mythvision...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Did Jesus call himself God webinar: www.mythvision...
==================================
Please consider helping support MythVision's work by joining the Patreon or a one time donation through my links below.
GET RECOMMENDED BOOKS HERE: 👉 amzn.to/35FqNYf
MythVision Website: 🔥 mythvisionpodc...
MythVision Patreon 👉 / mythvision
MythVision Paypal. 👉 www.paypal.me/...
Cashapp: 👉 $rewiredaddiction
Venmo: 👉 @Derek-Lambert-9
Recommeded books 👉 amzn.to/35FqNYf
Email MythVision 👉 mythvisionpodcast@gmail.com
Facebook page: 👉 / mythvision
Facebook group: 👉 / thewaterboyzradio
Twitter: 👉 / derekpodcast
Instagram: 👉 / dereklambert_7
MythVision Discord: / discord
#Islam #MythVision
I had been a Muslim for more than half a century until my curiousity killed me.Now I am just like you, Derek.I have been following/ watching posts on CZcams regarding Islam and Christianity; I have been enjoying.I have been interested in the views expressed by apologists as well as non apologists.Having sifted through all their ideas,the result is ,here I am ,just like you- critical minded dude
Hi Abdul. So as a Muslim myself, I’m curious-what has been your greatest doubt about Islam?
Also I just saw your other comment below on this video which said something like “Derek should invite Islamic scholars onto his show and ‘ROAST’ them with his questions”….Seriously? That doesn’t sound like a critical mind to me. It sounds quite childish, actually. Like someone who’s just trying to get a giggle for entertainment purposes, or score brownie points. Sorry to say, but such choice of language puts doubt on how “critical” you really are…
Samee (not for 50 years though, that's a long LONG time), Good for you, dude.
After 50 years of being agnostic I became super focused on islam. Some unexpected miracles happened and I became a believer. Now Alhumdolil-lah I am practicing one. 🤲🛐✅✅
@@celestialknight2339 Derek clearly has a bunch of Atheists pretending to be ex Muslims.....
and it's clear from several comments on several of his videos.....
Why aren't Muslims readily turning to Atheism
Well the Atheists have lost their debates, whether it's AP or Harris Sultan, or Aron Ra ..... ( And have become an absolute laughing stock to most Muslims)
And the academic scholars have largely confirmed the Islamic narrative.... ( Even those on myth vision)
So why would Muslims see the Atheistic perspective, when it's been falling apart.... ..
Half way through and wanted to give my thumbs up for your attitude and wonderful approach, Derek.
Thanks for all.
Only stumbled upon your channel a few weeks ago and really appreciate what you are doing.
I found your channel due to the interviews you have done but nice to see you being awesome with just you.
Keep on keeping on.
Much needed. Just as monks who transcribed the New Testament occasionally "improved" the texts to their beliefs, Muslim scribes created sayings or histories to match the personal interests of political leaders. My hope is that an honest critical approach will lead to saving the best parts of Islam, while reforming and rejecting those parts that are corrupted and false.
I heard the book name "Shahifah" that was used century later as primary source to arrange bigger book such as Book of Ahmad and Bukhari is earliest hadith book written under approval and direct dictation of Muhammad. This book was considered the most authentic. The rest narrations are just those companions who happent to see something prophet did or say and passed it down to their disciple or child and then this hadith ended up later in Bukhari and Ahmad.
Derek as a muslim i absolutely love your podcast, at firsts i thoufht you only do Christian stuff but its about a few weeks i made a playlist of all of your Islamic episodes and all of them are brilliant.
Btw if you can bring back dr hashmi please
SALAM BRO. MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU. FROM BANGLADWSH.
Admiring your ability to keep this interesting for 2 hours!
Derick I must not forget to add, I'm a big fan of your videos. 👍👍👍👍👍
Dear Derek,
Thank you very much for this instructive video. To complete your investigation of this thorny question disputed between, on the one hand, hypercritical approaches (close to the mythical theses on Jesus) and approaches that are too confident in the traditional narrative on the other hand. There is another balanced voice.
I suggest you invite Zihan Gaffar from the Corpus Coranicum team who did his thesis on the approach of Schoemaker & al, he demonstrated ( like Fred Donner) that the apocalyptic side in the preaching of Muhammad is not so crucial what Paul Cazanova or Stefan Schoemaker wants and that certain part of the Qur'ān says Meccan is anti messianic ....
Zihah Gaffar is absolutely to be invited to balance the debate (he speaks good English unlike me).
If you want, i can sand you a translation of his last book.
Best regards
I wish I had found MythVision sooner! Very well done and unbiased. I am Muslim and very curious about what is actually out there about the origins of Islam.
Read the Myth behind Judaism, Christianty and Islam by John Pickard
I love the fact that you started your narrative by making the argument that Non-Islamic is as reliable as Islamic sources if not more. It's so refreshingly absurd to see someone so educated being this ignorant. I hope that you start viewing actual accounts of history from Muslim sources.
Exactly. It’s like saying, I want to study Palestine from the eyes of Chinese scholars or from a Zionist. Because they are not bias .. lol
Robert Kerr has a theory with some evidence that Mecca was a Christian pilgrimage stop commemorating Ismael. Very interesting to see the apse of a chapel in Mecca today. Maybe he’s a good guest option?
Yoo this is off topic but love the grown out Goatee brother!
Derrick it was an apocalyptic time. The Romans and Persians destroyed each other.
When I first learnt about abrogation in the koran, I knew the koran can't be what is claimed. It is counter-intuitive that Allah changed his mind, no matter what Islam apologists have concocted in believing this.
It also seems to me that the reason that the satanic verses and the adoption of jewish rites such as circumcision and dietary restrictions in Islam, are examples of Mohammed molding his theology to attract pagans and jews to his side by showing these potential recruits that they don't have to give up elements of their own faith in order to join his ummah.
Similarly, the various prohibitions of alcohol would make sense since as a warlord trying to recruit fighters, he probably had experience where the bedouin fighters were too inebriated to fight on his command. By extension then, his promise of heavenly rewards of wine and honey, houris etc would be a way of getting those recruits to lay down their lives in battle for him.
Yes I think you are right, a reading of the Qur'an supports your view here regarding the allowance of pagan rites this is sura 22.37
"It is neither their meat nor their blood that reaches Allah, but it is piety from you that reaches Him....cont"
This verse changes pagan rites from the act of worship to the pious meaning of worship. I think this is pivotal in the early development of Islam.
The verse continues "Thus have We made them subject to you that you may magnify Allah for His Guidance to you. And give glad tidings to the Muhsinun"
Clearly allows the practices in the new light. This way any act of worship can be islamic.
There are some verses limited by their application in time, location etc. Is that what you are referring to? Also interpretation of some versus are left to ability of the reader. Is that abrogation?
Can someone point me to a rigorous rebuttal of Dan Gibson's theory of the first Mecca being at Petra? I have yet to see anyone examine it with intellectual honesty, with genuine analysis of the evidence he presents rather than the usual dismissive axe-grinding that reeks of resentment not scholarship.
Sneaker's Corner have made some rebuttals on some of his measurements. You can find the channel on Odyssey.
Pfander Films, Thomas Alexander, Saint Murad and Origins of Islam make excellent videos on the topic as well :)
Time is precious, I hope you agree, the thing is they is alot people who make claims and one would spend all there time in rebuttal of the endless torrent of new theories. His work has not passed any peer review process and so no one in academia would address it and it doesn't reach the required standard of rigor. I knew it was bunk the first time I saw it, Umar burt down the library of Alexandria? Mecca had fruits? The Arabs had a secret lost scientific method of accurately doing quibla from as far away as china? All of this is simply not the case. His work is mostly based on late medieval storytelling. There is no reason to take his work seriously. There is a good argument someone could make to place Mecca at Petra but it's not Gibson's.
@@hagalhagal9989 yes I have heard them talk about that but not with any detail or rigour. All I heard was motivated reasoning. If that host or anyone else in his circle have put a genuine rebuttal together in writing then I am very interested, but I don't think they have,have they?
@@thepennydreadful95 he published independently yes not in academic journals. That is not a criterion for automatically launching into ad hominem style attacks like he has received. Has anyone tackled his actual evidence from archeological measurements? No? They throw stones from a distance without addressing any of his evidence. You choose to ridicule his suggested explanations without attempting to tackle the evidence let alone attempt your own explanation for what he found.
@@CulinarySpy his non archeological work rightly deserves criticism because it's bad, note, his work is bad not he is bad. I am aware of his disagreement with Dr king who was harsh no doubt, but harsh sentiment shouldn't be a distraction from his several excellent points, which come in suggested reading of Dr king and others. This work demonstrate the Arabs couldn't be accurate with quibla direction. It's not guess work it's actually what the people building the mosques are saying how they get quibla, by lining it up with there eyebrows at sunrise etc, this is folk astronomy, not until recent times have we had the mathematical know how to do accurate quibla. I haven't looked at his archeological measurements I'll leave that to archeologists, who are scratching there heads at his measurements with confusion.
As for your question if there are muslim scholars who try to study the beginnings of Islam in a "nontraditional " way, there are indeed some efforts to be noted:
- Tunisian professor Faouzi Bedoui in my opinion is so far the best I have seen, he is very critical of "revisionists", especially proponents of Hagarism, while also approaching the traditional muslim narrative , his view is summarised as : Early many Jewish Christian groups had to flee to Arabia after the followers of Paul the apostle took over the church, in Arabia these groups were able to survive and keep their beliefs, Prof Bedoui talks about many individuals belonging to these groups when the prophet appears, such as Waraq ibn Nawafal and Abu Aamir Al Rahib ( or Al Yahudi ) and considers them to be Jewish Christians, he also believes that they influenced the prophet's immensely, but at one point the prophet had to distinguish his teachings from those of Jews and Christians, so he rejected both the Trinity of Christians and the " Traditional Torah" by only accepting the 1st five books which don't require that prophets be of the Davidic line, he even uses the term Muhammadian Torah to
Another one is Syrian Prof Aziz AlAzmah: He considers that Islam itself was a sort of synctretism of Jewish,Christian and local Arab beliefs, pointing out how the latter evolved over time and were very important to the foundation of Islam and shouldn't be dismissed.
There are other minor efforts , certain Scholars like Muhammad Maraqtan, himself an archaelogist and an expert on Ancient Yemen including Languages and culture, is of the view that Islamic montheism is a continuation of Southern Arabian Rahmanism, a seemingly independent monotheism in Yemen, he points that the so calied Makkan Quran uses the term Rahman more than the so called Madihah or Madani Quran
Mohammed surrounded himself with Gnostic believers which were Jewish and Christian heretics. If you have knowledge of Gnostic belief then you will see that the Qur'an is 90% Gnostic. And his real name was not Mohammed.
Thats actually ridiculously fascinating, is there stuff on this on youtube
“… but at one point the prophet had to distinguish his teachings from those of News and Christians…”
> Why was he compelled to distinguish? If the teachings were persuasive and admirable, why not simply adopt them? Indeed he did. Much or most of the Quran is stuttered regurgitation of Judeo-Christian folklore. Of course he also adopted Jewish circumcision and prohibition of eating swine. No where in the Quran is it stated WHY circumcision was to be conducted, nor WHY swine was prohibited.
Consider: it is retold that Mohamed told his wife Khadijah about his thundering cave dream. She said that it must have been Allah speaking to him. But which Allah did she refer? She was brought up, like Mohamed, as a subscriber to the Meccan Pantheism. Was the Allah to which she referred not the Allah of the Meccan pantheism? Note that there is no recounting of the incident where she is said to have suggested that the god of the Jews, Yahweh, was speaking to him.
As someone who was brought up in the Meccan pantheistic tradition, she would not have likely referred to the god of the Jews as ‘Allah’. What would she have called the god of the Jews? Yahweh? Elohim?
Big fan of your videos! Have you heard or considered reading or already read this scholarly academic book that is on the library shelves of major top universities called Early Islam: A Critical Reconstruction Based on Contemporary Sources written by Karl-Heinz Ohlig, etc? If you read it, could you interview him? I believe it will be a very educational video to the Muslims as well as I would really really like to listen to it! I really loved the reading the book! It is very interesting!
Lots of books are on library shelf's of universities. Let's just say this isn't a text book for students, it's obvious selected sources to explore a heretical Christian sect origins of Islam. It should be treated in the manor it was written as an exploratory piece.
@@thepennydreadful95 A very convincing ‘’exploratory piece’’ if you read it. The fact that Oxford University takes the content of the book pretty seriously even writing positive things on the book and the scholars says something that it should be taken quite seriously their arguments in the book.
@@mandalorianwarrior6052 hmmm the last essay is very good, it was an interesting insight, The others are dubious imo, they are constantly citing Potts and Luxembourg the latter of whom, lets face it, are less than reliable and regarded as an example of pusedo linguistics.
@@thepennydreadful95 The ‘’others are dubious’’, but Oxford University including other universities disagree with you opinions. Luxembourg is not a pseudo linguist as first of all he is an actual scholar including a linguist in real life and the fact that lots of scholars want him silenced instead of refuting his arguments and incapable of refuting his arguments since no scholarly I can find refutes each one of his arguments shows me that he is on an interesting path and his arguments are reliable and credible.
@@mandalorianwarrior6052 do they? I follow the consensus very closely, my current thesis is consensus options from 1994 to present time and I can't find any evidence that his (Luxembourg) is held in high regard. Although undoubtedly he is/was a linguist. Without the language skills Equal (I'm in my first year of Arabic MSA) I have to refer to what the field has expressed, and that is he is an example of pseudo linguistics from the view point of grammarians and methodically approach. Now I'm happy to revisit my view if you can provide me with who at Oxford supports this view. I'd rather correct what I've written than find out later.
Hi Derek
It would be great if you talk to a Zoroastrianism scholar
Thanks
+1 for Dr Dan Sheffield at Princeton
thanks for this effort, much love, i am a muslim here.. kinda :S
Hi Derek, being a muslim myself really like your channel.
call me a weirdo but I enjoyed you reading the introduction and explaining and giving your thoughts. looking forward to you having these historians on.
As a devout Catholic - I welcome and beg for the secular community to dig, dig, dig - this Channel has a lot of solid content, but the materialistic exclusivist world view of atheism collapses in on itself. As, quite frankly does much of protestant epistemology vis-a-vis what scripture is, how we get it, and how the Church and it’s living Tradition works. MythVision’s takes consistently reflect this view as well, which amounts to a straw man - characterizing Romans, Mark, Epistle v. Epistle. It’s as if doctrine doesn’t develop, or as if the Catholic Church has ever not openly recognized this. Remember the pillars of orthodoxy on the core theological questions of Trinitarianism and Christology is way early. Good on MythVision to (inadvertently) acknowledge multiple unanimous early attestation of Christian belief in the resurrection. By the Way, Peter was very certainly in Rome, from a secular perspective
Bart Erhman said one day that he is scared to critisize islam. But he can openly critisize others.
Islam did not begin after the Prophets death, first thing first. He wasnt only tellingly people to pray & how. People where actually praying with him. Not many people know if people prayed with Jesus or did he tell them how to pray.
That intro was sweet.
There won't be Islamic Bart Erhman ever... Don't waste your time waiting!
I hope you (all) as digging more into Islam, you end up Muslims and guided to the truth.
It's common sense, the last revelation is the most accurate and perfect. God bless you!
Does he mention Tom Holland's book in the Shadow of the Sword?
derek great guy! support him if you can!! sweet man
what does fuel all of this is certain experiences that are unexplainable. we still cant explain matter or consciousness, so our journey to find reason has lead us to these religions...
@malachi5813
A lot of Buddhism, Sānkhya, Yoga, and Vedānta are geared to investigating these topics.
Great!!!
570AD to 670 AD ( pre Islamic era of modern islam) issa Ibne mariyam was followed as Rasoolallah by Nastorian Christian. Nabetian's of Hajaj North, central Arab were follower of Allah and isa ibne mariyam ( Rasoolallah)
love what u do
Quick note: first biography of prophet Muhammad was written by Aban ibn Uthman who was the son of 3rd caliph. Aban lived between 640 - 723 and his book served as the main source for later scholars like ibn Ishaq. So Aban got first hand knowledge from companions for his book.
Can we see this book?
@@mastershakeathforiginal923 you can partially read it as it's cited by later historians, the earliest source we have in print is now, Musa bin Uqba al-Madani al-Matrafi an early maghazi literature discoverd last year and translation by Sean Anthony earlier this year.
I thought it was Ibn Ishaaq
@@chrishaynes599 his( ibn uthman) work may not of been written down it may of been oral, or partially written. It doesn't survive so difficult to tell for sure, although he is quoted later so its possible. You have to reconstruct the work which has its own difficulties.
@@thepennydreadful95 interesting. Is there a certain book that argues this. If so please do tell. I’m interested in academic Islamic studies
Derek,please bring in more Islamic scholars to your channel and given your critical mindset,I am sure,you can roast them with your questions.
He already did: Javad Hashmi
We appreciate your objectivity. More you look into it more it will confirm Islamic narrative, except for Hades
Why is that non earlier source of information is more accurate than the Islamic source?
Just because it is earlier??
There seems to be an intentional bias there.
Just because the story of Adam(PBUH) was present in Judaism forehand doesn't mean the story in Islam is wrong.
You could interview an actual Muslim and Islamic scholar, in the west, such as Yasir Qadhi. If you could interview him, it would be quite interesting. .
He did - Javad Hashmi
I think your last computer is cursed by the lord. It slowed down and eventually died because it's ancestor sinned against god.
😂
The Trade Route book of Patricia Krone, made her get death threats and she had to move from Harvard to Cambridge.
Caught this older show. I love your work. I've been studying Religion's since I was 5. Really, it's when I first questioned & started researching (had an exceptional library in home) . I'm not Christian, Islamic, or Jewish. I feel they all have their beauty as well as flaws. Faith, I feel, was meant to give purpose, lessons, and morality. No belief system is perfect, & I feel most people from all beliefs are failing in their belief by not accepting others in their beliefs. He's right, she's wrong, ours is the only way & if you don't think like me, you should die. That's a failure on everyone's part. History is important, but very early history was more verbal than written. Early education was mostly non-existent, expanding in the long run the difference in each of the religions. Sparking the controversy in each. Ask 10 people who were there and get 10 different versions. Everyone has an opinion, including the prophets themselves. We're prophets sent to give a message, to start a movement, or in reality, did they see something more divine in humanity itself, a potential to make one person's life better. A desire to see a more peaceful world. To spread more love rather than hate. I would rather see a hundred prophet's spreading love and good morals rather than skeptics who spread hate. Finding the basics of a belief shows we are all the same no matter who or what we believe in. Now, throwing in the Catholic church's practice of changing the way verses were written and borrowing from even older belief systems has added to even further confusion. The only true belief is in one's heart. Take what is good and use it, and throw out all the evil. Study and find your own path. 60 yrs of study has taught me many things in ministry.
25:20 brb
1:56:00 gonna pick this up tomorrow.
alright done.
Islam as a religion (competed the Quran) was finalized during Mohamad Salawat Aallah Aleighoi wa Aleh.
The Arab conquests during the formative era of Islam were driven not by religion but by material want and covetousness. The great outburst, which sent Arab armies to conquer the surrounding fertile lands, was only the latest in a series of similar outbreaks of Semitic peoples fleeing Arabia throughout history due to economic pressures resulting from Arabia's gradual decline. Muhammad thus becomes the leader of this movement, religious, if you will, according to the ideas of religion in Arabia at that time, but above all a politician and an opportunist.
The social and political conditions in Arabia during Muhammad's early manhood were bad. Arabia is none too fertile at the best of times, and just at this period practically all its fertile fringe was under domination of foreign powers - Byzantine, Persian, and Abyssinian. The contact with the civilization of these more progressive peoples had not been without its effect in making the needy Arabs turn longing eyes to the better things they had hitherto hardly dreamed of. The tribes themselves were restless and discontented, economic conditions were bad, and they were ready to rally round any banner that would give them the hope of national deliverance. It was Muhammad who held out the banner, and his was only one among many such groups taking advantage of the situation in the aftermath of war between Romans and Persians.
This is often over looked, the Muslim expansion, if we call it that, was just by far the most successful of a series of invasions. No doubt it took a unified front in the form of a new creed of faith and included many disparate people's on the fringes of empire. The Muslim expansion for me shares similarities with the Viking invasions of Europe a century later, could of been overpopulation, famine, the lure of lucrative ungaurded plunder, likely all of the above. A strange thing about conquest or human conflict is we need a reason, an excuse even if it's a bad one (Russia) to justify these actions at the time.
The Arabs many of whom fought in the Persian and Roman armies knew both Empires were weak.
@@thepennydreadful95 But were they attacking directy from Arabia?
There is now a consensus among revisionist scholars that there was not a massive Islam-inspired invasion emanating from Arabia in the early 7th century, but rather a gradual coalescence of an Arab state centered in the area of present day Syria, Iraq, Palestine, and Israel-an area that already had a significant population of Arabs, most of whom were Christians. For example; Elagabalus and Philip the Arab were Roman emperors, Mavia was an Arab warrior-queen.
There is also strong evidence that Islam as it is understood today did not arrive full-blown out of Arabia, but rather coalesced from existing Christian, Jewish, and Arabian monotheisms at the very end of the 7th century, not reaching its recognized form until the second half of the 8th century. Arabs had been migrating into southern Syria and eastern Iraq since the early 3rd century. By the time of the Arab conquest in the 630s, this Arab population had been Christianized for several centuries. (The earliest Arabic inscription, from 512 CE, is in a Christian church in Aleppo.) A large collection of papyri, written in Arabic and discovered in what is now Israel at Nessana in the 1930s, provides clear evidence that the Arab Empire arose not from an invasion out of Arabia but as a decades-long takeover.
There was also a strong thread of Judaism combining with Arab Christian traditions to form the distinctive brand of Arab monotheism. Some of the earliest coins from the Arab era bear the sign of the cross along with the name of Mu’awiya, the first of the Umayyad amīr al-muʾminīn. In the fluid religious milieu that existed, Christian, Jewish, and Arab monotheisms were all drawn upon when, in the 1st century of Arab rule, the new rulers felt the need to develop a distinctive Arab theology and liturgy, in order to differentiate themselves and their new state from the empires they had earlier fought for and now replaced.
@@krisc3371 yeah I don't disagree generally, even Muslims who know about this period wouldn't claim Islam emerges full blow from Arabia, the course of islamic development is very well documented, in stark contrast to the events of the 7th - early 8th century. If we look at the accounts of the ridda wars after Muhammad died, some tribes claimed they would be loyal to Muhammad's theology, in the sources it says Islam, (whatever that means at this time) but they refused to pay taxes. This was not good enough for Abu bakr who considered them appostate. I would say this indicates submission to the caliph and meeting a minimal criteria of theology go hand in hand. Now Remember in the Arab tradition a king is elected by the tribal leaders, they swear an oath to obey his arbitration, the king is a settler of disputes in this tradition. It seems that the bulk of the armies were these northern Arab tribes who had elected and had sworn an oath to an elite who had something to do with a shrine in the Hejaz. If we look at the traditional account how the tribes of madina needed an arbitration leader, they approach Muhammad, because he is not one of them, he is impartial, much like how some nations today combat curruption by the employment of foreign judges. only Muhammad's method of arbitration is to satisfy no one, but is flexible enough include different creeds of Christianity and Judaism. When waring tribes no longer are fighting each other, yet are dependent on raids to supplement there income and diet, this need is projected outward. But I think by the time of Umar, there success is perceived as been in someway to validate the claims of Muhammad, who if he did not claim to be a prophet, certainly is at some point. At least that's my take on it. Each of these points can expanded, needless to say I think the traditional account isn't too far off, it's just filtered by a lens of what became thought to of happened, rather than what did.
@@thepennydreadful95 In order to understand the events in the 7th century you first need to understand that many people speake of ‘’the Arabs’’ in a somewhat generalizing way.
levantine Arabs were different from peninsular Arabs, levantine Arabs were loyal to the influential Umayyads while peninsular Arabs were not, in fact on multiple occasions the levantine Arabs went to war (under Umayyad leadership) against the rest of the Arabians, while peninsular Arabs were on the other side or neutral. When the Sofyani branch of the Umayyad family was over, a man by the name of ibn al-Zubayr declared himself Amir al-Mu'minin (and his reign was accepted over most of the Arabian populated region) Abd al-Malik feared the successful rise of ibn al-Zubayr and his followers. The besieging of Mecca, in 692, with over 10,000 Syrian troops, shows just how serious Abd al-Malik believed the situation had become for the future of his dynasty. The siege of Mecca led by the Marwanite branch of the Umayyad family, under the commander al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf proceeded to besiege Ibn al-Zubayr in his Meccan stronghold, where he was ultimately slain in 692. A year before his dead Abd al-Malik oversaw the symbolic building of the Dome of the Rock to compete with the Kaaba in mecca (something to do with a shrine in the Hejaz you said?) von Sivers also mentions this in the vid. Of course the Dome of the Rock and the great Umayyad Mosque at Damascus had other reasons to; towards Jews and his imperial trinitarian rival in Constantinople.
The points you mentioned should certainly be expanded and of course i know the traditional account isn’t complete fiction but I’m surprised that you seem to lean to much on the traditional account imo
Hello Derek! Could you interview Lloyd de Jong about sharia?
Can you get to the point faster ? I expected an explanation of how a christian sect morphed into islam 😞
Derek just as you openly critisize christianity... do it honestly with islam to.
Islam is a religion either u accept its Quraan or deny it. 1- Believer 2- Denier = Atheist (because the message reached him)
You should have Jay Smith on Derek !
Jay Smith is a clown.
😂 the idiot who thinks that Islam originated in Petra?
@@Batman_simpson you are outdated, that was 2 years ago when we only knew of the Petra Thesis. After that we have the Iraq Thesis, a corroboration of work done by Inarah, Odon Lafontaine and others.
@@hagalhagal9989 🤣
You've got to be joking!
How did Christianity really Start ?? Did early Jews really believe there were two Gods in heaven??
Relevance?
Some did, some didn't, there were various Christian sects in the beginning of the religion.
There were certainly many jews who did not believe Jesus was God, and would never have accepted the idea of the trinity
@@spaceisalie5451 What Is The True Teaching of Jesus Christ??
@@tarikramadaan3342 I don't know
You must be new to this channel lol of the 1000s videos on this channel the VAST majority are questioning Christianity , asking especially how did it start . Before u typed that you didn’t think to maybe checkout what content this channels makes before making a statement like that?
There is a good research related to what you discused. It is entitled: 70 weeks prophecy: How the bible foretold the year jesus and Muhammad will come on earth.
The book put together in a coherent manner the scattered scholarship about the subject: 70 weeks prophecy, son of man, Kingdom of God, Jesus, Muhammad, roman and Persian empires, Jews and arabs in madinah liberating Jerusalem, etc.
Available as book in amazon or B&N, or ebook for free in academia edu
Began with lies and stays alive with lies .
John the baptis and jesus are brothers frm the same parents. Even muslims got it wrong following christians reasoning. Both of them were competing who has the most followers, jesus made the mistake of claiming salvation through himself while john did not made that mistake.
History is the least reliable/dependable way of coming to a conclusion on any subject matter.
This is why such a podcast should refrain themselves from asserting statements like, "Judaism or any other religion was INFLUENCED by the Hellenistic culture and traditions". This already assumes that Hellenism was an atomic culture, which means the traditions (which is referred to as pagan in this podcast) were started by Helenistic people and they were not influenced by the monotheistic people prior to them. The only difference in this assumption is that we don't have that history (around the Helenistic period) to access that. So this might have happened back and forth in human history.
Hence we should not use historical methods to confirm or reject something.
Have u read thee quraan? should u?
25mins in, it's like an audio book - reading out long quotes with zero analysis 🙈
With a warlord that lied a lot.
You have to find out if muhammad rxisted. Do it honestly and openly.
As a non perfect but believing praying Muslim who watches your show from time to time I'd like to say David Wood absolutely hates us lol he's made an entire career out of bashing us beyond belief & has even been condemned by Christians elders such as James White .. I do understand that everyone has different beliefs & I have more friends who are non Muslim, However he wouldn't give a fair assessment, critique, or anything, .. His channel is dedicated to utterly disrespecting us in horrible ways, Rabi Tovia although obviously doesn't believe Muhammad (Pbuh) is a prophet has a lot of knowledge on our faith & I know you have a relationship as well as respect for him, .. All of us feel our religion is the one true way & I'm used to the criticism, However some really have it in for us haha .. I hope everyone is well & Blessed always
InshAllah (God willing)
🤲🤲🤲
@heezyhines2209
If hatred is the issue you have, and you are devoted to combating hatred, you must address all the hatred and hate speech directed against disbelievers in Sunni Islam.
I just wanted to say from the get-go Derek, that while I appreciate your distinction between peaceful Muslims and the “extremists” who “want to behead” (as per your words), the fact that you didn’t answer your own question of “Are MOST Muslims like that?” with a RESOUNDING no, is quite sad. You make it seem like it’s legitimately a valid question of whether the majority of 1.8+ BILLION Muslim men, women, and children who live in all four corners of the globe and make up nearly a quarter of all humanity, are actually “extremists” or not. Obviously, the overwhelming vast majority of us aren’t, and are just regular folks. The 0.1% or less who are actually violent are-go figure-killing fellow Muslims themselves, and are politically-motivated lunatics. This is another point that needs to be acknowledged and emphasized.
But the main point is, I’m just quite disappointed that the narrative until today-even in a sophisticated “scholarly” channel like yours-is still one driven by the likes of Fox News & CNN-type fear-mongering propaganda, which unbelievably puts a question mark on the quite obviously absurd & false idea that the “majority” of Muslims may somehow be closeted violent extremists, which if were true would literally mean an Armageddon-type war that is occurring on earth at this very moment between billions of people. I know you mean well, but it’s just sad to hear such rhetoric on your channel. And it also shows me that we Muslims likewise need to do more in reaching out to our fellow non-Muslim neighbors, to build bridges and fill those huge knowledge gaps.
Anyways, I’ll continue the episode now.
Romulus never ascended into heaven. That was a story by Ovied.
We will never know what or which one is the true religion or prophets since all of those mixed up. Or they all tell the same thing at the end😅 one god.
These two videos are posted by our former """"enemies""""" please search for the video titles on YT and please watch them, it is a food for thoughts for you. Our people did not make those video and our people did not post those videos on YT and we did not invite them to faith and we did not convert them to out faith. It was God Himself did.
Video titled on YT is "AFTER COMBAT - THE STORY OF A MARINE'S CONVERSION TO ISLAM".
video title: "Derrick Feinman How Islam Found Me: "
Both men reported same identical miracle.
As an ex Muslim, you're not allowed to criticise Islam,it's a religious Idea that is absolute,the so-called scholars are terrified of consequences so safe to tow the line..by the way Islam means surrender NOT submit as they would like you to believe
Brilliant show Derrick, my 2 cents for what it's worth regarding Dr shoemaker. I love his books there very accessible and well written but I have problems with many aspects of his work. The death dating for example, the allusions to Muhammad been alive is problematic, it's strength it's also it's weakness, ie the amount of sources that are alluding but not saying he is alive. "The Arabs of Muhammad" well it's not clear really and in all these sources it's never clear he is alive which is a little odd. The rejection of been able to clearly see this is evidence is reinforcing his view that scholarship isn't critical or critical enough etc, skeptical about that because the same scholars say that's not the case. In his new book he also has a rant about carbon dating which is justified but a little unfair in my view.
Would they say he is alive why would dey say this?
@@wittynut2961 even Muhammad is coming, or Muhammad was here just anything definitive, but no, in all these allusions not one is definitive and that's highly unusual if they are talking about in some cases contemporary events. I think the most likely answer is they know about the name Muhammad but they are unsure about the role he plays or even if he is alive or dead. He is remote to the authors.
@@thepennydreadful95
Schoemaker has an ideological agenda.
He also ignores scholarship in dating the Quran.
@@rockybalbao3483 he questions the dating of the Qur'an in his recent book, imo it's kind of weak, not that traditional dating is perfect either I will say. He uses the illustration art to conclude the Qur'an is 8th century or at least the earliest manuscript is. Which is a problem as the illustrations could of been added at a later time, the linguists say it's 650s and have various ideas regarding the illustrations including them been original but early that previous thought. I don't know much about that but when someone's primarily manuscript evidence is weak it doesn't seem enough to base a whole theory on. Regardless I don't think he has an agenda, I get the impression he his frustrated with the pace on scholarship on the Qur'an and early Islam and so deliberately comes up with talking points. That's fair enough to some degree I agree with that.
I read through some of the comments I am a Muslim by birth and I also are some way like you but think you should study the coraan with open ming make claim investigate it specifically the mathematical statement you will be amazing don't when differ from your up bring I can see christiany made a big damage to your consent about religion
I beleive in early Islam as a monotheistic Christian based movement. Muawiyah 1 is depicted with a cross on his coins. I beleive the prophet Mohammed accepted the cross.
Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus . Apparently a look alike was crucified according to islam . So, it was kabuki theatre in their pov .
Yes that’s because they never changed the mint. They only added “in the name of God” to the mint but kept everything the same. Even the Persian Islamic coins still had names of the last Persian emperor and his regional governors and that was only changed later.
@@NoMan-pp1jq the Muawiyah stone also has a gothic cross on it.
@@lovetwentyfourseven7428 was that cross added or was it already in the previous coin? Answer is it was already in the previous coin. Nothing changed on it except the addition of بسم الله as many coins were
@@NoMan-pp1jq The Muawiyah inscription stone is obvious. It has a gothic style cross. It becomes clear this was an arian Christian type of revelation. The Quran is a form of monotheistic Christian Arianism! All the theological concepts are Arian in nature. I mean it is very clearly a non byzantine non trintarian message.
u r mixing the true Jesus peace be about him is always True would never say any thing wrong. but people writing about him most likely to.
The 1st one that said that he was a prophet was 1 of his wives.
Hi Derek. While respecting your right to delve into the origins of Islam there are a lot of ultra-traditional, devout Moslems who could feel threatened and upset at what you are revealing. It reminds me of my times earlier in my 20s when I entered a NZ Catholic seminary, slightly doctrinal and biblical fundamentalist. I did not have the fervor and zeal of some you see. Anyhow I distinctly remember our first 2 Historical-Textual Criticism classes there. Fuming and angry some of the guys sprang to their feet, fists clenched. These were the cream of the country's Catholic talent and piety and yet we were lucky to avoid a brawl.
I fear there are Moslems out there who are capable of doing far far worse than this if their basic scriptural tenants are challenged. It is nonsense to us but it is as though their very survival is at stake. Their identity is so strongly bound up in it.
Please be wise and sensible, Derek. You are too good to lose.
Lol..The Islamic Scholarship is very sophisticated. The Sciences developed through the scholarship are robust. We encourage you and Derek to seek for more knowledge
@@anuaratomar5315 hello atomar. this is standard muslim bragging. if you apply the same criticisms to islam that you apply to christianity islam is in a much shakier position.
@@georgeh8937 There's no point in bragging. The truth is simple.
@@georgeh8937well I remember He interviewed Prof Reuven and in that interview the Professor said that unlike Judaism and Christianity, early Muslims were critical and aware for possibilty of forgery in transmision of hadith and tradition. Altough western schoolar trying to put such idea that Muslim just accepted whatever given to them without checking it, but thats not the case. He said.
@@andanandan6061 hey andan. what is the typical muslim believer today? surely not a critical scholarly type? why point these out except that it makes islam sound more reasonable rather than how the majority practice their faith?
whats interesting in your analysis of how is that its the same thing that triggered both the cannonites to be jews or the indo europeans to create meaning via there stories of their times. good stuff dude.
Simple logic:
You cannot say that there were many forms of Christianity in on breath and they saybit is "anarchinistic" to talk about Christianity.
I take it back. Now thag I know theology is fanfiction I know thise dudes praddle is just thay: word salad.
A very weak case of your approach , i thought you would display some value in history, either you are stereotying 2 billion people in the lamest points or youre trying to learn and a beginner in entirety. I also think your clock froze to 30 years ago and you need to respect others in the sliding curve of the American Century. True christians respect Muslims. Jesus is mentioned more times in Quran than Mohammed fyi.
Your intros drive me nuts …. They are so adolescent
Get raza Azlan over
Islam was never meant as a religion. Muslim is just a state of being as opposed to one who proclaims to be one. Muhammad was the last prophet of the torah at the same time the messenger that brought the quran. The torah and its system became obsolete when the quran came down. The followers of the quran need not follow other earlier teachings, and the quran provides the student direct access to GOD without any need of intermediaries. The earlier scriptures requires prophets to teach others. The quran's approach is a very modern concept of direct access to the creator liberating the need for any religion. And of course, living in a society one needs to reapect others while having free will. Free will is unlimited when it comes to choices in ones mind but is likited by physical circumstances.
The Real Merkabah has some good videos on the origins of Islam. Everyone interested in this topic should check out his CZcams channel.
He had 100k subs yet hardly anyone watching his videos. A little bit suspicious isn't it.
@@thepennydreadful95 I haven't looked into that but he has good info either way.
@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur that's fair enough, it about the substance at the end of the day. He's got a lot of videos so post a good one on Islam for me and I'll give it a go this evening. Cheers 👍
@@thepennydreadful95 yeah he has several ones but I found the info in this one revealing:
czcams.com/video/U5cNhcGQ2Ic/video.html
Islam had been existing since the beginning of the humain beings. Starting with the prophet Adam. And exist now and will exist until the end of the world with you ,without you. Islam didn't begin after the death of Mohammed peace be upon him. I suggest that you start the discussion in the wrong way, and the end won't be right base on the mathematical theories. I appreciate your efforts to come to an objective outcomes. However, considering another approach to your exhaustive works is much realistic.
😂
The sure document about Mohamad Sallah Alihi wa AAleh, is the Quraan it is the document about him.
Jesus cannot be wrong. It's literally God's words being spoken. He must have been recorded wrong. Similarly prophet Muhammad made wrong decisions or choices. But God intervened and corrected him. So prophet Muhammad was also righteously guided. ✅✅✅
Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, became flesh and dwelt among us. As a devout Catholic - I welcome and beg for the secular community to dig, dig, dig - this Channel has a lot of solid content, but the materialistic exclusivist world view of atheism collapses in on itself. As, quite frankly does much of protestant epistemology vis-a-vis what scripture is, how we get it, and how the Church and it’s living Tradition works. MythVision’s takes consistently reflect this view as well, which amounts to a straw man - characterizing Romans, Mark, Epistle v. Epistle - It’s as if doctrine doesn’t develop, or as if the Catholic Church has ever not openly recognized this. Remember the pillars of orthodoxy on the core theological questions of Trinitarianism and Christology is way early. Good on MythVision to (inadvertently) acknowledge multiple unanimous early attestation of Christian belief in the resurrection. By the Way, Peter was very certainly in Rome, from a secular perspective.
my religion has lost me....too many fairy tales...from arabs..😂
Peace Derick:
There are a couple of things you said I take issue with. However, for the sake of time I'll touch on just two of them.
1) I heard you said, you are aware of Muslims who torn down churches and transformed them into mosques. There is no doubt Muslims did some bad things in the past, and that may be one them. (For the sake of arguement, we are not talking about possible Christians who became Muslims, and decided to turn their church into a mosque.)
The point is Derick, those kinds of incidents happened after 632 ad. And if someone was to study Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) biography from an unbiased point of view, they could clearly see Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) would not approved of such a thing. That action is clearly forbidden in the Quran.
2) Though Greek or other mythology may had came into other religions, and transformed their prophets or religious leaders into demigods, it is not fair for you to present Prophet Mohammed in that same light. Islam strongly presents Prophet Mohammed as an ordinary human being, who had absolutely no power or control over the miracles that happened in his life.
Clearly Mohammed is presented in a mythical manner in the Koran .
If you don't have proof, it is faith
Yet they claim god created whole entire cosmos for him….😂
On the question of mythicism re both Muhammad and Mecca see my 'Did Muhammad Exist? A counterblast to the Revisionists' on Kindle
The video has so many contradictions trying to Start Islam after its completion!!!! This is like saying I received the delivery only after the only delivery man died.
Pathetic
Through 40 years I've watched lots of debates with islamist and if you don't agree with their religion they get angry and start slipping into that terrorist bully talk and it's pretty sad.
Another idiocy thue alqarnein not two horns qarn in th Quran is epoh or generations
Muhammad never really said anything? Muslims have idolised (no pun intended) the Prophet because the one thing that he did say was: I am just a man, a messenger and thus with all human failings etc…he did not preform miracles but introduced something tat grew like wildfire and touched a need.
Muslims don’t believe that Muhammad ﷺ didn’t perform miracles. You probably never read the Islamic prophetic tradition if you believe this nonsense. The very presence of Muhammad ﷺ is a miracle according to Authentic Islamic tradition.
The creator could not have let us with the roman pagan trinity christian religion after his o t taught pure monotheism. so he had to send islam.
Through the caravan raider, plunderer, slaver, who thought he was possessed.
Had 23 years to oversee the writing of the final revelation but instead was busy amassing women and the above. Also his Allah thought fit to put in said revelation that any women that offer themselves to Mo he could have them!
@@Stardust475 Yes. You see all you know about Islam is few misleading stories you heard from your false preachers.
For example you call Muhammad "caravan raider" while ignoring that those same caravan riders launched war on Muhammad,tried to kill him and took all of his possessions.
You and your false preachers dont care about such little details,all you care is any excuse to deny Islam even if you have to take things out of context.
@Keksi quite the contrary. You've swallowed Muslim cherry picking. You're wrong Makkans approached Muhammad differently to how he treated them eventually.
The details are what reveal the degenerate and violent behaviour of Mo.
What I didnt know from Islamic sources is contemporary non muslim sources from the Levant confirm his nd his followers conduct; death, plunder, slaver.
Anyone who examines the judaeo christian tradition knows what a fraud he was.
So, God decided to send us a man who went under the influence of magic to the extent that he thought he was having sex with his wives?
Only God knows the number of stories
in the Quran which were through Muhammed’s hallucinations, considering some even thought he was an epileptic who hallucinated at times during his seizures.
Pure monotheism where people still have to kiss a pagan stone and venerate the pagan kabah?
@@edward1412 yep. bowing kissing touching and praying to the stone wall in Jerusalem [wailing wall]....site of the worship of the pagan Baal god and his goddess wife and the golden calf ? where you guys twirl a live chicken overhead in order to transfer your sins to the chicken? [kapporet]. you can't win mate
Read the Noble Quran and learn a lot more,
Be careful, friend, remember that millions of people who are not indifferent to their religion are watching your investigation and I am one of them, no matter you insult Muslims or seek the truth for their own good, for the authorities you are the type who is trying to break their feeder. Assalam alaikum to you from Dagestan
Why you're afraid?
Why a threat to a non believer for trying to understand a subject of interest? Is this the religion of peace?
@@dion5804 Afraid of whom? If anything, it's The West (from the most edgelord liberal of left spectrum to the most evangelical Neocon-riding boomers on the other side) whose keeping on constant paranoia against Muslims and Islam
A waste of time.
Lol Omar doesn’t realize he’s owning himself dhul kharnain is obviously Alexander which is funny that Alexander the pagan is in the Quran. Quran has oaganism
The bible as well.
This is the Quran's interpretation of Alexander, why would this appear In the Qur'an is the question. In the Alexander romance, in Jewish legend Alexander recognises the Jewish god when his followers emerge from the city of Jerusalem in white robes. This act persuaded Alexander to spare the city from sacking, as he paid homage to the god of Israel. Although the story is ambiguous as to if Alexander was won over to monotheism. The idea Alexander was a secret monotheist in a pagan world ( in an old testament sense) becomes popular legend in both Hellenised Jews and Christian circles.
how about two attempts to Palestine one During Prophets life one after. It is Called Mu'tah east of the dead sea. led by Zaid alter his son Osama( after the death of Muhamad.
Someone had to justify a 7 year old wife.
It was a normal practice of their time across the board - pagans, Jews, Christians and Muslims
They got married by culture at the time to strengthen fri3ndship [with her father] and they loved each other to death!!!, how about fedos widely spread in churches that killed minors???????😢
@@Realhumanitey Both are rancid, kids can't make their own decisions and shouldn't be forced into adult relationships.
@@josephbarnabas1911 yep, horrible.
You’ve got Christian prince, David wood, apostate prophet,n rob Christian, Islam critic and many more, truth about Islam is there
There's no truth in polemic, just there truth
@@thepennydreadful95 quoting Islam's embarrassing stories from core texts is an attack. Lol
@@Stardust475 to be honest I don't know what it is. Polemicists take these core stories as you say, as truth and repeat it back to Muslims, presumably to make them feel guilty in been Muslims. The problem is these core stories also say Muhammad is the last prophet, obviously you don't think that one is true. Lol 🤣. As I say polemics no truth, just what the polemic wants to believe.
All false preachers misleading people about Islam.Following them will lead you to only one place... H E L L.
Those guys have no clue about the truth of Islam and Muhammad.
o t ' god is one ' n t ' god is 3. trinity trigodheads ' quran ' god is one '
You've obviously never read either!
One load of bullshit is still a load of bullshit
@@reefnreefer another Ann heche. Aaron carter in the making. weed cocaine alcohol Xanax the opium of the secular atheists
OT teach there are many Gods but chose to worship only one which this YHWH. It is as crazy as the NT Bible. For this reason Jesus was sent to this people and then for the same reason Muhammad was sent to the Arab. To remove this bizzare stories and doctrines. For exmp, You know that story of angel that had sex with human and produce giants. Thats crazy man. We know angel is no in need for sexual intercourse.
It’s hard to pay attention cuz you’re too cute 🥰 sorry
Ha ha
To Christianity and Jews...we Muslim have an ideology just like in Isaiah....prophet isaiah prophecied about us...we are an iliterate people describe in Isaiah who would get glory and grace from the GOD of abraham...
Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I don’t know how to read
just like an iliterate Arab desert warrior and Turkic nomad horsemen...their view about GOD was a simple...there would be only one GOD in this world because only a strong GOD can organize everything in order...just like a strong leader can bring prosperous and peaceful condition... family connection, respecting the elder and harsh implementation of law...thats make society worked..an iliterate people living with simple, realistic and logic idea....that's why GOD prophecied us a Muslim and prophet Muhammad as an iliterate people a GOD chosen who would defeated man made relligion in this world..means people who get trapped by literally man made interpretation of GOD/ indoctrinated stupid
Say (Muhammad), "O people! Truly I am Allah's Messenger to you all, Who has the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; there is no god (who has the right to be worshiped) besides Him, Who gives life and causes death, so you believe in Allah and His Messenger , (namely) an iliterate Prophet who believes in Allah and in His sentences (His books). Follow him, so that you may be guided."
( Q.S. Al Araf : 158)
also to Muslim you have to understand what's " ummi" means for our relligion...why prophet Muhammad was an iliterate prophet...don't trapped yourself in literally Mazhab that's not our Fitra
We Muslim don't need recognition by Jews and Christianity because we already proven as the right relligion by humiliated them by conquering their holly city...we broken Jews myth as the chosen one by build mosque in temple mount and force them to pay jizyah for hundred years to prove GOD covenant into us..and to Christianity..we defeated them in crusader and taking back Jerusalem and also conquering their capital Constantinople and making Hagia Sofia as our mosque to prove that they worship antichrist an false GOD which weak..and for 1400 years we challenge them to seized our holy city Makkah...but untill today ..not even Jews and Christianity dare to get their foot in Makkah...not even them can enter Makkah until today to humiliated them
SMH!
So, Muslims still use the Isaiah chapter? Do you even know what that chapter talks about ?
@@edward1412 don't care...we are not blabbering and talk bullshit like Christianity but always proving..we the only people that's embarrassed both Christianity and Jews by build our mosque in their holy city...
@@fajartiyarabdulmajid7807
You foolishly claimed that the Isaiah chapter is talking about the followers of the Arab pagan cult called Islam started by the warlord Muhammad, and you think I’m the one bullsh*tting?
Lol
the main problem with the beginning of the argument is that he thinks religion is just books. mystical spiritual experiences ARE REAL. so YOU may not know which christianity is true but I sure do. I watch this channel to learn more about Christianity. so far nothing has disproven the Divinity of Christ.
🤣
Once you realize what he's doing is his JOB, you might understand why the videos contain so many minutes of "nothing-burgers"
But again, I enjoy the works of people like him, because they just disprove themselves. Well, not directly, but like in the style of "you just checkmated yourself"
When did he say “ he thinks religion is just books “ that’s the real problem , some of you come on being ignorant of this channels content , and being ignorant of the bits of pieces of his personal life he’s shared with us , and you just make up stuff . “ he just thinks religion is books “ he’s never said that . Why did you make that up ? he literally was a devote fundamentalist Christian most of his life up untill a few years ago . People don’t understand how clownish they look coming on here assuming all kind of things without knowing and then make silly statements , with out even bothering to see what this channel or this man is even about . Height of ignorance.
@@dope03pope This channel never proved or disproved anything,its just another false preacher channel just like there are tons false preachers attacking Islam and they all MAKE MONEY OF IT and dont prove anything.
Of course for poorly informed people this might be earth breaking but in reality its lots of talking and zero points at the end.