Winch Rope Destruction Test: Synthetic vs Cable
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2019
- Does old-school wire cable still have a place on your winch, or is modern synthetic rope the only way to go?
What we want to say from the start, this is a case study, not a brand specific comparison. This is a big one though, testing the breaking strains of similar sized synthetic winch rope and wire cable on the same NATA test bed we used for our snatch strap comparison back in #12 and the shackle destruction-test we ran in the last issue (CLICK HERE TO READ THAT). We wanted to see what would happen when each of these winch cables were pushed to their limits. How would they break, where would they break and what could we all learn from this exercise? So we went out to our local 4WD shop, purchased the required equipment (no sponsors on this test - we funded the entire operation) and went back to the Nobles lab in Western Sydney. All that is left to do now is test them to destruction, so you can draw your own conclusions as to which cable will best suit your needs.
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I've witnessed and participated in many recoveries using a winch. I have never seen a steel rope fail in real world. I have seen at least three synthetic rope failures. In each case the failure seemed to be caused by the unavoidable contact with rocks you have to drag the vehicle over. When I'm in my rig hanging over a ledge by a rope, make mine steel.
Agreed, the chafing requirement in a real 4x4 world makes synthetic far less desirable.
Just add chafing protection, problem solved
Yeah I don't no how anyone thing synthetic rope stronger than metal rope. I have never seen metal winch rope fail in wild either but rope not do good
I've seen steel rope break I've even seen 1 1/8 steel rope break that was very interesting
@@wiley1421 Not one winching a vehicle you haven't.
As somebody who has been professionally Towing for the last 10 years the only time I've ever seen a steel cable break is when it's been improperly used and pulled hard over a sharp surface or when it hasn't been replaced after signs of age and wear and the operator just keeps using it regardless of the condition it's in. Now as far as synthetic ropes and straps and all that stuff those need to be washed constantly they need maintenance all the time they get degraded just in the sun and the dirt particles that build up in them and there's definitely a shelf life to them they don't last nearly as long and they aren't as durable going over rocks and edges of things. There is a reason why steel cables are the industry standard synthetic ropes are just a fad for those 4x4 guys who will buy anything
If their just a fad, why are they the only material allowed on all winches at King of the Hammers?
Thank you for not drawing this video out with a bunch of talking and things like other people do. And yes I agree synthetic rope is better. We switched from it because our hoist wire was fraying and cutting our hands
One aspect of dyneema winch rope is it does not take shock loads very well and if it gets full of dirt and grit it will fail quicker .
I liked your setup and comparison of the two. Well done. I have been drilling all my life & achieved some points of interest to some, so I know a lot about cables of all kinds and sizes. I would enjoy and be very interested in the results of aircraft cable to other steel cables. You have a great setup there and I know there's a lot of people out there that would enjoy the tests. Great video. I hope you do more. Please?
First of all...retest the rope...secondly...give us some stats on each of the tested peices...are they comparable in strength?
Good test. All the steel rigging both galvanised and stainless I have had fail started with strands breaking. But gal was more progressive. But I have also found that metals can vary a great deal too.
Lots of people on both sides of the cable/winch rope discussion. For me, I saw a cable fail trying to pull a broken-down Jeep up the beginning of Cadillac Hill on the Rubicon. It snapped back with enough force to seriously hurt someone (fortunately, everyone had good winch discipline and stayed far enough away). I pulled him up with the winch rope I've had on my rig since 2005. I've never personally seen a winch rope fail, but I'm suppose it could happen. I keep mine clean and properly wound when I'm not using it, and it's covered to prevent UV from weakening it. Heat's not a problem since I have a hydraulic winch, and it has two sheaths to prevent chafing over rocks. I had a winch cable on a 1977 CJ5 years ago, and feel the winch rope is far superior for my use. YMMV
Yeah good test but. the thimbles for Dyneema\spectra\amsteel synthetic braids should be cast and pollished before installation. Had that been the case the results may have been different. also the frayed end appears to indicate that the bury was to short for an eye splice and the splice was not locked. I suggest to anyone buying a synthetic winch rope gets a cast thimble from a chandlery and takes the 20 minutes required to re terminate the rope with a locked brummel splice as used in sailboat rigging. the thimbles are not that expensive around 10 bucks. many youtube videos give you the how to.
I'm glad to see this is the first comment listed. All the thumbs up!
Why not give the thimble a miss entirely? It doesn't seem to be needed at all.
@@ksb2112 synthetic ropess like dyneema have huge tensile strenght but do not handle abrasion or transition over sharp edges well
@@gmoose777 Agreed. But what was implied is that there is no need for the loop to run over anything sharp, especially if you used a soft shackle.
@@ksb2112 From what I've read, the thimbles are important because the bend radius of the rope (as well as for steel cable) has a dramatic effect on the breaking strength.
But in this test, the thimble DEFORMED, causing a sharp edge on the thimble to move into and cut into the rope.
Thank you for showing me the scene of the wire breaking.
20 years working offshore with big diameters. Dyneema/spectra/kevlar have short life spans compared to wire. Synthetic is generally only used for slings and for tying ships up and thats because of weight. Heat, oil, grease, dirt, salt, marine growth, sand, all break down synthetic very quickly. Synthetic is great for vehicles. Easy to inspect, replace, ligjtweight, and not generally life or death when it parts. Dont overthink it.
Always cover your wire rope when under tension!
Great test. I was going to replace my synthetic cable on my winch to a steel cable but after seeing this, I will keep the synthetic rope. Thanks.
So you must like Failure.
Interesting Unsealed 4x4 but we have seen a lot of times cable breaks and snatch blocks go fly'n ... maybe cause we usually have a 100' plus strung out and a strong tow rope at the end to take the jerk out. Maybe the tow rope sends it fly'n???? Thanks for showing us this...
I was really hoping for more conclusive results. Great video anyway. Thanks for sharing.
You can't go wrong either way.
Thank you for the caparison. Not only is steel cable a pain to work with but as you have shown, dangerous.
That's not dangerous.
Danger is winching up a steep hill and having the rope chafe and break, sending the 4x4 down the hill.
Would like to see how the synthetic performs using a different thimble and using the eye splice.
This test should be completed using an actual winch sized spool. I have seen synthetic ropes usually fail inside the spool with melting and friction. Wonder if that's more real likely the fail spot?
They come with a liner for the first layer.
If you load your rope on the spool properly that doesn't happen.
Higher end winches don't have the brake inside the drum so they don't generate heat and melt the line.
@@KurNorock not sure I can agree with that. Most winches have the brake inside the drum, even a lot of fairly high end ones from Warn and others. Even the ones that have it on an end plate, if the brake sticks and is overheating, it’s gonna end up transferring to the drum.
Different variants of dyneema and other synthetic fibers can be more or less susceptible to heat damage, and like I said before the heat resistant wrap on the first layer of rope seems to help as well.
I haven’t been in many situations where the brake was what was overheating. Most of the time, the winch motor is where the heat is.
I use synthetic on all four of my winches. 3 are warns and one is a superwinch.
@@drewdoestrucks superwinch specifically moved the brake outside of the drum and used actual steel tube for their drum instead of a cast drum. Both done specifically for synthetic winch line.
I use synthetic rope, change it around once a year. Managed to snap rope twice in the past, no damage done.
To what degree does sunlight exposure affect it?
@@bryanst.martin7134 I haven't noticed any effects during the average time of a year, that I use a rope for. I would add that we custom fitted the winch behind the bumper of the land cruiser and we use a factor 55 prolink, so although we operate in summer temperatures of 50°C, none of the rope is constantly in sunlight.
If you have an exposed winch, there's covers that are relatively inexpensive and will protect against weather. Also helps keep the mud out when going deep. Just have to remember to take the cover off, clean it out and let it dry properly after going out
Here’s a scenario, my parents and me in the bush on muddy trail in a 74 blazer pulling a 28ft airstream trailer. Slid in the ditch, winching out with 8k (8274)warn winch & 1/2” steel cable. We pulled the rig about 200ft before ditch levelled out enough to get out. Did that with no issues. This is back in the early 90’s back then it was unheard of for steel cable snapping.
Not having jaggers makes the synthetic rope desirable. I too would be interested in seeing how they perform on a drum & with fairing.
I wouldn't trust wire rope to behave like that, I have seen it break many many times logging.
Adding 3' or so of chain to the end would be interesting, It is supposed to stop cable from whipping.
A couple of rescue knots for the synthetic would be useful.
Great video, thank you!
I'd say you need to test more examples of both options. One result in an experiment wouldn't dictate an overall conclusion for an actually scientific test.
When I start seeing tow trucks and cranes switching from steel to synthetic, then I'll THINK about switching...
Good call.
@CurmudgeonExtraordinaire 2 years later, do you feel the same way about synthetic now days?
As you might know by now, tow trucks and cranes are running synthetic now days in high numbers.
@@ducewags -- I'm still sticking with steel and see no reason to replace something that still works for me...
@@CurmudgeonExtraordinaire Okey-Dokey.
@@ducewags -- The wire rope on my winch is nearly 30 years old and still in good shape. Do you think a synthetic rope would last that long?
You should have stopped at the 4800 kg spot where the synthetic rope failed and held the cable there for a few. Then continue on.
I went with steel cable here in California the heat/sunlight and weather is crazy. Synthetic seems to have issues after a few years in the sun.
Seems the couple advantages of the 'twine' is outweighed by price and longevity over the steel cable - on 3klb and up.
Synthetic is probably fine and last a good while on a SxS or ATV and the like.
I just bought a 100 ft 3/8 synthetic winch rope to use to pull my shipping container. The container will be on logs and I will use a snatch block at the container end and have one end of the rope tied to a tree and the other to my truck. There will be a slight incline but I am thinking the rope should work just fine right??
I've had both wire and dyneema. I've never broken a wire rope but had one fray on a 20000lb tow truck winch once.
Had dyneema going through snatch block and snapped twice. The weight and heat generated going around the snatch causes the rope to harden and snap. The actual snatch block was cold after failure. It was spinning and everything.
Yeh, synthetic rope and steel cable both have their applications. The weight you are pulling is much more suitable for wire cable.
Dyneema hates heat.. it melts just like a milk bottle.
@@procactus9109 - ha ha well it is closely related to milk bottles.
@@kadmow ;)
You should buy better quality snatch blocks, learn about winch speed dynamics and learn how to rig properly.
While a submarine I was on was being pulled out of floating dock a spring wire got caught and started to sing, 3 of us jumped onto ballast tank then it snapped. 2 dockyard matties had legs broken
This is cool if I want to winch my UTV up into a tree. But a break test with brand new materials is not definitive of which is the better product. I would like to see some other tests that are more real world. Like how well do the ropes hold up to being dragged over logs and rocks under load. Soaking them in brackish mud, or exposing them UV and extreme temperature swings - how do they look after a while. After the cables have been abused, what do they break at?
Thanks for the simulated workshop test, but this is NO real-world 4wd or any other type of test. You need to put both on a 4wd spool it up and then see what happens... There are many more factors that come into play when out in the real world like rocks, dirt, wet rope, abrasions etc on both wire and Dyneema rope. I would love to see this done again properly!!!!
Please????
Done again properly,PLEASE!!!!
Great test guys. you are a credit to the 4WD industry! Was not expecting the wire rope to hold after failure. Would you mind elaborating how close they were to their rated breaking strains and what poundage winch the would be applied to?
Thanks Greg, for more information on the test check out the full article at unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue039/#27
You could also probably carry more synthetic ropes at the same weight of a metal one and get tons more strength added together
The fact that there are a myriad of chafing situations in an off road environment makes the synthetic stuff only viable for vehicles that simply couldn't handle the weight of steel. If you think you can use them each in the same situations, you either have a non diverse terrain environment (mud/snow and flat) or just don't use them.
The fact that they make a myriad of chaffing mitigation for synthetic rope means that you obviously don't use them.
I've got both steel is much tougher and more reliable not to mention cheaper. I'll never pay more for a inferior product again there a reason cranes use steel cable not synthetic. A small abrasion and synthetic rope becomes useless. A tree rock or the sun will take it out. You got to do something stupid to break steel.
Comparing it against a chain in a similar situation would be interesting since a chain is sometimes used as an extension when your winch cable is not long enough.
You should never use a chain on a winch rope. If your attachment point fails, the chain will become a weapon. Ideally you use the same type of line as your winch uses with an eyelet in the end and a safety weight on the line. They sell “winch extensions” for exactly that reason. A static strap is a safer and more common option as well.
The advantage of synthetic line when used as an extension is that you can carry 50’ in a pack the size of check box.
Carrying steel like as an extension is not practical with steel core rope. Fiber core much easier to store but lower strength.
What was the rated line pull For the rope and the cable? Did they fail short of the rated line pull Strength?
No mention of abrasion or UV damage then.
Get some mud on the ropes and let them chafe and rub for a while - the synthetic will fail far sooner.
I do like synthetic ropes in many situations but for regular winching in a harsh environment there is no contest. Wire every time.
I have a 2dr Jeep and I'm probably looking at getting a hitch mount winch since my Jeep is so light. In this case, the rope is a better option since I'll be moving it to either the front or back depending on which way I need to pull
@Kaleb Owen I said 2dr (door) not 2wd lol. Does Jeep even make a 2wd??
ขอคุณที่เเสดงไห้ผมรู้ จะได้ระวังในจุดที่มันชอบเสียหาย
I've had chain sling back at failure, not cable but the synthetic is rope application is what I would want when trying to 'snatch' a stuck vehicle
Problem is the synthetic going around the roller of the block gets VERY hot on the inside of the curve which weakens it... Straight pulls the load is even across the width.
Im going on a limb here and saying its safe to say both the steel cable and synthetic rope were the same LB rating?
A properly spliced synthetic eye shouldn't break like that. Looked like the eye slowly came undone instead of holding until the rope snapped. I've done testing on 12 strand high strength rope before, and it's certainly more safe than wire, however, it usually doesn't break like that
Do you need to use hooks on booth so that way it’s actually getting the right stress on them like on the synthetic the crimp that hold up because we used the cleanest instead of the hutch
The cable breaking over 1.3 tons than what the synthetic did and you still call the synthetic safer. The cabling is dangerous, but the real danger is in the hook or any metal down the line. The synthetic rope fell off completely, The steel cable remained attached.... Still confused how you think it performed better. Synthetic is only good for ideal scenario's and in the real world we know those don't always happen. I went with the steel cable, less danger of mud and sand actually cutting into your cable if you don't wash it properly, any sharp edges will ruin your synthetic cable and it can get snagged easily. If you want more durability/longevity and strength Steel is the way, If you want to sacrifice some of that for safety synthetic is the go to. My only question is in a risky recovery scenario would you want your cable being something less likely to fail or would you want something considered Safer but if it scrapes the wrong root or branch or gets driven over, you potentially have a vehicle tumbling down a mountain side. whats safer again? lol
Agree with ya, Mad0.....wire rope can be mis-treated and abused and they rarely break. Synthetic rope is so not so tough ....they don't like mud and sand.....they don't like too much sunlight....they don't like bending over rocks with great tension. Wire rope just does not care....it just works. But I have to admit that synthetics come in really cool colors.
In 10 years my steel cable will still be good and if I was using rope it would be junk if it's not replaced every 3 years. I had a synthetic tow strap that was 1" in diameter and was about 4 years old and it wouldn't pull my neighbor car on flat ground and just broke like nothing.
Good points actually.
I'm putting 7/16 wire on my 10klb winch. Less maintenance, move uv resist and more abrasion resistant
jesus ⁷/¹⁶th may as well have crane wire while youre at it
@@rotam8680 good idea. I'll do that. they are building a bridge in my town I can get it from the crane. good thinking
For any needs about steel wire rope PLZ contact me WhatsApp：+86 18036231199 .We are manufacturer of steel wire rope in China.
@@bowenxu9486 no thanks
dang!!! what size winches are you guys using down under? my winch drum is no where near that size.
Problem with rope is it doesn’t hold up being dragged through rock etc like steal and seams to be far more effected by the elements than steel cable. I have steel cable I used 35 years ago dragging logs that are still in good shape
So for the average "get myself or my friends out of the bog" uses for winches, what do you prefer to deal with? A line that is more compact for the same breaking force but can rust and degrade by weather? Or a line that is bulkier though much lighter but can age in the sun or otherwise dry out over time? After a certain period, both will have to be replaced. So pick your poison...
With steel wire you can leave it in all weathers and it's still good. Synthetic nice but get longer life out of steel cable.
What thickness and rating of each rope is necessary to determine if it is apples to apples. My Warn M12000 came equipped with 7/16 wire rope. I've seen plenty of synth rope break on the trails and rendered useless to get a vehicle out. I have yet to see a steel cable break. It has lot to do with environment and durability. The synth rope is only safe until it is not. It is susceptible to abrasion from rocks and UV/water/freezing damage.
Everyone I know with synthetic has a cover which at least shields the rope from sunlight. Also, I've heard of people with synthetic not paying attention to the duty cycle usage of their winch, and running the winch hot enough to degrade the synthetic (become a bit brittle)
In real life, a lot of people don't protect their synthetic ropes from long term sun exposure. These ropes need to be in a bag, not open in the back of a vehicle.
In real situations, where people tie things in the most unbelievable ways, and have no clue on how geometry (diameters, angles) and mechanics decrease the effective strength of their cables, it is much more likely that we have a rope (or a broken steel cable) flying dangerously. The most common thing is to put a hitch around anchor point, with the hook over the same cable; that reduces the effective force almost in half. The same if the hook is in a position where the pulling force is made at more than 45 ° with respect to the main axis. With the ropes it´s the same, any knot (depends on which one) reduces the final force they can withstand. Small diameters at the anchor, acute angles, sharp edges also affect the final resistance.
So the issue of safety depends much more on the conditions (and forces) of use than on the material itself.
pd: a 5 ton hook pulling sideway isn´t a 5 REAL ton. hook; wire isn´t "safe" per se
Interesting. Wish we’d seen a readout of pull at failure. But get the synthetic dirty and drag it over rocks under tension, the see how it compares. Synthetic is fine on Jeep winch that occasionally gets used to get the Jeep unstuck. But I’ll throw away the steel on my working winches when I see Loggers replacing the steel on theirs.
I use steel on my Jeep. I don't want the rope chafing while I'm winching up a cliff at Moab. Rope is for shopping mall 4x4's
BUT, but the biggest problem with synthetic IS (and always has been) UV degradation. If there was some way to REALISTICALLY get around that problem then it’d be THE smartest choice (other than cost) to go for. Spray is only skin deep and wears off quickly while the rest of the rope is untouched. Wraps and sleeves have problems also; such as taking up line capacity of the grim, bunching up, being realistically hard to resplice around, properly working around the thimble (or any other termination), and additional cost to an already expensive item. My choice to this day (so far) is actual WIRE rope when it comes to a winch or hoist.
Please give a test of synthetic till break?, Yours broke at eyelet which test is incomplete.
I’ll take a steel wire any day of the week !
1. Strong
2. Reliable
3. Long lasting
4. Dirt/mud proof
5. Resists scraping damage from rocks, wood and the fairy lead.
6. After 10 years, it’s still as strong as day one. Synthetics are prone to UV and ozone degradation.
Not much chance of tying a knot and using to get yourself out of a "bind." Pretty much shot your steel wire Billy.
@@terryknutson3202 😎 No need to ‘tie a knot’ because steel cable almost NEVER snaps.
For those EXTREMELY rare cases, a couple of Steel Wire Rope Grips will do the trick! 👍👍
@@BillydevitoSorry Billy. i have seen cable "snap" more than 10 times. Cable, snatch blocks go fly'n, one snatch block flew so far have not ever found it. Thank God no one has ever been in the way. Amen.
@@terryknutson3202 everything breaks if you put it under more abuse than it’s intended for. I’ve never seen a cable snap when used properly. As a fisherman we use cables and ropes for specific uses. Don’t abuse and everything will be fine. But there are of course freak accidents.
@@terryknutson3202 actually you can fix steel cable.
Good thing about synthetic is you can over rate it a lot without all the bulk and springy loops.
I’ve been working on aircraft since the 1960’s and never saw an engineer incorporating synthetic rope over a steel cable. I wonder why if it so much better?
FAA
@@artd. I understand the role the FAA plays but doesn’t answer my question
@Tom S Very well said AND typed sir! Excellent points and I agree with you 100%!!
Yeah that says a lot actually 💯
Well said!
Let's see which one is tougher when you have to drag your line over a boulder or through some dirt to your winch point and you can't put a rolling block in it.
What size was that synth rope ?
was that 3/8th or 5/16th cable? or other?
Whhat size wire rope was tested? 5/16 or 3/4? Thanks.
3/8"
So basically the higher priced brand name synthetic rope broke because it was fitted with a cheap, nasty eyelet that compromised the integrity of the rope. Cost cutting buy companies with no regard for the consumer, nice.
Though I'd prefer having the weakest point as the rope or thimble, if it breaks only the rope is going through the air than than a shackle and mount.
I second the comment that this is a b.s. test ---- the rope should have been repaired as they say --- tie the new end together or whatever and pull it till it breaks --- rope is lighter so less energy but I believe it still recoils back and dont drop to the ground as they say ---- heck the steel cable in this test literally just fell to the ground and we all know that's not true
yeah you can't cause a recoil on those machines because its hydraulic, once they started to fail the tension was lessened significantly thus no killer snap.
My family owned a automotive service shop for a very long time, and we had many tow trucks. From simple snatch trucks, rollbacks all the way up to 60ton wreckers. The whole cable cutting people in half is a myth. When a cable breaks it slams back toward the point of tension, usually the winch it self. The only way to get a cable to swing out is to have it being pulled around something without a snatch block. So say your cable is run around a tree at say a 45 degree angle, then when the break happens it will catapult it around the tree. Very unsafe. But even with that it won’t cut you in two, unless your working with tug boat levels of force. Nothing any off roader, or tow truck should ever come close too.
That all being said I’ve snapped a few cables in my day, once on an 80k pound pull, and I’ve never seen one just go flying. I think off roader need to learn the proper way to use winches and proper safety methods. The cables are not as dangerous as everyone would have you believe, but you do need to have a good working knowledge of how they work.
Btw most of the danger actually comes from whatever your winching when a line breaks. If a truck moves suddenly or breaks free completely then you have a few tons of steel going uncontrolled in whatever direction is the path of least resistance. That’s where people can be hurt or killed.
@@vinmatrix76 very interesting - thanks
@@vinmatrix76 There are videos of a 4x4 group in Australia where they have a bulldozer slowly pull a fairly long length (over 50 feet), ~12k lb capacity cable in a straight line pull until it breaks.
They have the area fitted with cameras that play back in slow motion. Their tests have repeatedly shown the steel cable breaking and flying, say 10 degrees relative to the pull axis.
Their tests show it is extremely dangerous. In one instance, they parked a car a foot or two to the side of the pull axis. The cable had so much force while flying that it actually sliced through a substantial section of the front window-roof pillar.
These tests are objective and they aren't selling or advertising anything
@@gregparrott first 10 degrees off is about right. Typically when a line breaks is springs back towards the point of tension. And with the coiling effect you could easily hit something at that angle. A 12k straight pull would be extremely stupid to do, and quite frankly nobody should be doing that without a snatch block. But even if you did and the cable snaps, and you or anyone else was standing directly next to the cable, it still won’t cut you in half. My last post never said you couldn’t get hurt, I said it won’t cut you in half. The amount of force need to cut someone in half or even to cut a limb off is far more than anything you’ll encounter in an off roading situation. But yes officially you could get cut or maybe possibly a broken finger/hand. The problem with trying to show the damage from a cable snap is how most do it. If a steel cable hits a piece of metal on a car it can cut it, but it’s because the metal doesn’t move. If it hits a body the body will move and absorb a lot of the energy. Whether it knocks the body down or the body tissue compresses doesn’t matter, it will absorb a ton of energy. That’s why people put heavy rubber blankets on the pull cables, because they absorb all the energy.
I stand by my original statement. Synthetic rope is a gimmick that is over priced and marketed with fear. Any true off roader that has learned how to work with steel cables would never buy synthetic rope. Btw it’s not like off roading is the safest sport in the world. Why is everyone so scared of using steel? Probably because they never took the time to learn how to use it, and because the off road magazines have scared them into not wanting to even try to use steel.
You didn’t give us any information beforehand about what the rope diameters and ratings were.
yeah but how do they compare being in direct sunlight and weather for extended time.
Trouble with the synthetic rope is......the fibers wear over time leading to it breaking at much less than the weight rating. Wire rope does not wear nearly as fast as the fibers.
Awesome
Hi hope you guys can give me some advice. I have a 2020 F150 5L. I installed a westin bush bumper and winch plate. I want to install a winch but heard that I need to strengthen the front suspension. Is it true? Then is it worth getting a winch? And I want to get a 12 500lbs winch. With the push bar grill guard it dropped my front end 5mm so would love some advice and input. Thanks guys.
A 12,000 lb winch with steel cable typically weighs ~80 lbs. You can look up the weight of the bumper and winch plate, but these often weigh 150 and 250 lbs MORE than the stock bumper they replace. If you then added a push bar and grill That implies you're adding ~250 to 350 pounds that is OVERHANGING the front suspension. Adding that much weight to the front on a half ton pickup warrants stronger springs.
I have an F-350 (single rear wheel) Even with its stiffer suspension, I know adding 300 pounds will drop the suspension by more than 5mm, as that is only 3/16 of an inch.
So, I really question if your F150 suspension only dropped 5mm. Note that both before and after changing parts you should drive little bit, or at least try to bounce the front end so that hysteresis does not give you a distorted measurement.
Take a look at Moorguard ropes: Extremely safe!
Test longer lengths. Ronny Dahl has a good video showing the dangers of steel line breaking.
I watched his video. He introduced several unrealistic variables to cause the failures. Although it does demonstrate what can happen if winching isn't done properly. Murphy's Law: If anyone can find a way to do it wrong, they will go to any extent to do it wrong.
Neither was a real world type of failure… both do the same thing, they go flying at hundreds of miles an hour, only difference is the synthetic weights much less so has less energy… it’s far more likely to fail from wear or abrasive dirt though because it’s nearly impossible to inspect it like you can steel…
Steel gets grit and mud in it too, and it deteriorates just like it does to synthetic.
@@drewdoestrucks true but at nowhere near the same rate. A steel cable usually will last multiple year with multiple pulls being done on it. Where as a single pull in mud, dirt, rocks, sand(places where ppl actually use winches) will entirely destroy a synthetic cable
@@codyjones111 a single pull in mud or sand will not destroy a synthetic cable. Cmon dude. Let’s be realistic.
@@drewdoestrucks ehh I've done enough recovery and ran a rollback long enough to know better. Straight line pulls its fine but if synthetic is dragging across sharp rocks it'll cut it each time
Who made the tension bed? Chant?
My major concern with synthetic rope is after it's caked in mud.
And sand dragging over a tree or rock. No thanks.
Rope is really nice on shopping mall 4x4's
and what happens to the plastic rope when it on your winch through the weather all year long?
a steel rope can take not being used through all four seasons and weather all year long.
as most 4X4's are parked outside. for me it is summers up above 115F. and winters to below 0F.
rain lots of rain. snow. heat of the summer, and just sitting on the winch drum through it all.
the plastic can not. just dragging it through dirt requires you to take it off, wash it, then set it out to dry. and then having to remember to reinstall before going out. (hopefully no emg calls, at 2:am.).
never drag it under tension over anything.
It is apparent the thimble end was poorly designed and/or executed. It would be interesting to see how the Freedom Winch Rope would perform fastened to a smooth mandrel e.g. a properly rated hitch ball. notice the large mandrel at the far end. That is the accepted method of minimizing the end-effect when tensile testing textile materials.
I'll stick with the stronger and more durable steel.
What was the rating of the rope and cable used.
I have been offroading since the late 70 and never seen a winch cable break. The manufacturer provides wire rope rated over stall point. I have seen 3 winch ropes break in 5 years and 1 was the first use. When the cable in your test broke I didn't see it fly across the room.. do tow trucks use wire or rope?
In real situations, where people tie things in the most unbelievable ways, and have no clue on how geometry (diameters, angles) and mechanics decrease the effective strength of their cables, it is much more likely that we have a rope (or a broken steel cable) flying dangerously. The most common thing is to put a hitch around anchor point, with the hook over the same cable; that reduces the effective force almost in half. The same if the hook is in a position where the pulling force is made at more than 45 ° with respect to the main axis. With the ropes it´s the same, any knot (depends on which one) reduces the final force they can withstand. Small diameters at the anchor, acute angles, sharp edges also affect the final resistance.
So the issue of safety depends much more on the conditions of use than on the material itself.
@@pedrova8058 your selling on hypothetical situations that in today's world where people watch videos on how to fill there washer fluid. I started wheeling in 1978 same year I bought my 1st winch and the cable on it was under rated as is all wire rope made. When you double or triple line pull are you pulling with 2 or 3 cables? No same cable. Ask a tow company why they are still running wire rope. If the manufacturer of synthetic rope would just say it doesn't poke your hands I would be cool with that. I have never seen a winch cable break but have seen synthetic rope break on the first pull. I have synthetic on my atv and that's fine it's a 2500 lb winch on a 400 lb vehicle not a 9500 lb winch on a 5500 lb vehicle.
There are things one can do to minimize the fraying of the cable as well.
I looked this video up today because my friend’s husband was being winched during an off road trip he was on with a bunch of his friends. He was being winched with steel cable. The cable broke, went through his windshield and smacked him, in what everyone thought was his throat, but it turned out to be his chin. He was bleeding all down on his throat so they assumed it had cut his throat. He was airlifted to UC Davis hospital where they quickly determined it was just his chin, stitched him up and sent him home. He’s lucky. But based on that, as well as my understanding of how steel can be dynamically loaded such that it releases with a lot of energy, I will always choose Dyneema rope over steel any day of the week. I go to King of the Hammers every year where a lot of winching happens and they allow only synthetic rope. There’s a reason for that.
What did anyone ever do before synthetic winch ropes.
I know for using a winch as the tie down (strap). At a job I worked at the cable never broke on any of your side by side but broke more then one synthetic rope.
Rope sucks if it's anything but brand new. If you go off roading in mud sand rocks. That cable will out last the rope by about ten years.
I won't own a winch with synthetic rope. I had one once, and it didn't last more than a few pulls before it was chaffed to the point I was worried about its strength. Steel cable for me always.
OK so first what is the weight of the cable and rope...knowing that would be an asset...second when winching properly you would have a weight on the line to absorb any energy released when it breaks that or you shouldn't be winching at all ...if rope was "all that" every wrecker would have it and they dont because it cuts to easily...now on an average 4x4 rope is top notch as its easy to use and you dont risk wickers and stray sharp ends. Most winches come with wire...at least here in Canada...but I have run both and as long as you dont winch over rocks and such rope is great but when i have my jeep anchored and am winching a one ton...give me steel every time.
I was pulling my van out with a buddy. That wire, it flew so fast my brain couldn't possess it. I was like wow. Fu c k . What happened to my window.
CZcams clips show a vast majority of synthetic ropes failing at what would appear to be well below their advertised (4.5t) rating.
I couldn't imagine the synthetic on my WARN 16.5, on my 8,000# Superduty! I wouldn't even consider it! I have a Harbor Freight 12,000# with the cable as well in my enclosed trailer. A 4,000# car with a locked axle would most like destroy the synthetic.
Splice a loop (without the metal hoop) into the end of that synthetic rope, then test it.
There's a good reason why the offshore oil industry only uses steel cables and steel chains.
Now retest with rope and cable from winches that have been wheeling in Arizona for 18 months.
6100 kg vs 4800kg =1300kg
Go for steel
A 12000 lb = 5443 kg so the winch will brake the syntetic rope before reaching it's max capacity
The synthetic rope broke at the eye, probably, as you say, cut by the thimble. All you've really done there is test the strength of your eye splice. A different technique might give different results.
Test that rope after being in the weather for a few years
2000kilo difference. So when your rope was broke the steel keeps on pulling .
Hi. Good job sir. Can you give me the size of both cables.
that was an eyelet not thimble....correct? 2- Ive never heard steel was stronger than synth, always heard the opposite....I think synth is stronger n safer if you keep it clean....
Hard to keep clean though isn’t it?
That cheap metal eyelet should never have been there, retest after a proper splice is put in that synthetic line. Most synthetic winch line is SK-78 grade Dyneema in 7/16" capable of right at 22,500 lbs average strength. However, there is a stronger grade available SK-99 Dyneema in 5/16" is capable of almost 25,000 lbs and the tiny 1/4" dia. comes in just under the standard 7/16" winch line..... that means you can get a whole lot more synthetic line wound on your winch drum for much longer pulls. And both of these are far stronger than the same diameter steel cable.
No offense to the presenter here, but I'm saying any one that chooses a recovery device because it's light and fluffy and not scary looking might not be the guy. I would personally try either one of the two ropes in my winch. My current setup is wound with wire rope.