I worked alongside Alan Williams with the Rubettes years ago and they performed this song live on the night. I also have worked and still do play with Paul Da Vinci from time to time and have performed this song with him many times providing guitar and BVs. He can still hit the notes and you are correct in saying that he was the original vocalist on the hit record. The song was originally a demo made by session musicians including Paul Da Vinci and was to be pitched as a potential song for Shawaddywaddy but they didn't take it so a band was formed around the session group after the record was recorded, and Williams was brought in as vocalist as Paul had signed a solo deal with another record company. The vocal was supposed to be re recorded in light of Paul's departure, that was the agreement, but it wasn't and the record was released with Paul's vocal on it. It has caused controversy over the years with many people assuming Alan Williams sang on the original record when it was Paul Da Vinci.
Alan canta melhor que Paul e sabemos que Alan gravou.a música, a verdade é que todas as outras músicas com The Rubettes são maravilhosas . Alan é especial!!
There was never a dought in my mind that Da Vinci was the voice on the hit record but hearing it from a guy that was right there on the spot... thanks for your feed on this one, jonbeedle!
@@wesleycook7687 aceite , é melhor. A tecnologia não lie. Alan canta ao vivo maravilhosamente bem, todos esses anos em shows. Por quê não canta em disco?
@@Koganman123 Yes I always thought Alan was miming to Paul's vocal so this analysis was very informative. He actually did a great job to sound so similar to the original and hit those incredibly high notes.
Pretty clear, two different vocals. Amazing that both singers could hit these falsetto notes in a similar but different way. Great video. I remember this song when it came out and was amazed by the vocals at the time. I can actually hear the difference when you compare them side by side. Cudos to the second singer for re-recording his own version of the song.
@@wesleycook7687 Then how do you explain what this video shows? The two singers hit the falsetto notes in completely different ways, one going straight into vibrato and going slightly sharp while the other holds the notes before going into vibrato and going slightly flat?
@@kikicliff2519esley Cook doesn’t listen to any one’s opinion. He let’s his own prejudiced blinkered views cloud the obvious! Phil on the video says that Alan did a pretty good job vocally and to the untrained ear that just likes a good singalong song …..well, we probably wouldn’t know any different and we’d have bought it anyway. Alan recorded his own vocal and he mimed to this on performances …. That’s what the guy on the video is saying and gives him kudos for doing it so well. Yes …da Vinci does it better, his vibrato and pitch is better…. but does it make it a better song ….no, us record buyers of 1974 would have still bought it if Polydor had put out Alan’s version. Wesley is on his own personal mission to put down Alan…..I’ve not been able to get him to see sense for the last two years … Phil in the video tells it how it is and he still bangs on about Alan being a fake! 🤷♀️ who’d have thought we’d still be arguing about a song 44 years on!
And to the untrained ear very similar…. You’re better than me …I couldn’t tell the difference! Alan is not the fake some people are saying….you know who you are WC! ….and Phil gives him praise for doing a good job on his re-recording of the song.
😂😂😂Rubettes. He's miming. He can't sing Sugar Baby Love and has always used other people's talents as voice overs..Why hasn't he recorded it? He CANNOT sing Sugar Baby Love..
Had the pleasure of working with the Rubettes as a sound engineer on two occasions firstly with Alan as the lead singer and secondly with other original members of the band with a different lead singer, can't remember his name, both were excellent singer's with no backing tracks or jiggery-pokery on the sound, really enjoyable gig's, also a gentleman taking myself and roadie and band out for a meal after the soundcheck
I was in junior high school at the time this song came out. I really loved how many songs embraced a 50s sound at that time. With American Graffiti a new other movies extolling the 50s, sock hops, doowop and dressing up became popular.
This song wasn't very popular in the US but it did reach 32-34 on the charts for a few days. It was more like disco which was just beginning in 74, but was ignored by most radio stations and DJs. Nobody knew what to do with it. Oldies stations couldn't play it and top 40 was playing hard rock. A few pop stations played it. Casey Kasem's Top 100 did play it on his New Year's Eve show.
Takes me back to my childhood, loved this song, love watching the old videos and really appreciate your analysis and explanation of the differences. Great job as always
It was a requirement by the Musicians Union back then that if you appeared on Top of the Pops you had to re-record the track and not just mime to the record. A rep would be in the studio to watch the recording and take the master tape away with them. Some savvy bands like Sweet used to go through the motions of recording but distract the rep at some point and give them a copy of the original recording.
That's probably what really happened here. A version was recorded by Polydor Records and the Rubettes just sneaked it in. Alan couldn't sing it so they just recorded a version at BBC studios using the Polydor singers and musicians' version as the voices on their tape that they were supposed to mime to. It's a thought. One thing is for sure: Alan Williams is not the singer on Sugar Baby Love for TOPS or anywhere else.
As I said, I saw them live and he sung this song. Live. This video is comparing two TotP performances and showing that they are clearly two different singers. You need to get over this obsession you have with Alan Williams.
I am always amazed at how much I learn about a song, instrument, or artist from you. Even a song I've heard over and over or a song that seems so simple and straightforward ... you always find something to teach us and you make it interesting. Thank you as always!
I worked as lead singer of the Rubettes for a short time around 10 years ago, we always performed everything live, this note was a b*tch to hit😂😂 would take me about a month of warming up to get up there again now😂 Great video, really interesting watch.
oh realy you did oh wow how nice i grew up with the group alan williams oh boy loved the music glam rock. i still listen to the music. i live in the netherlands they had so much succes in my country. they are verry good in live. i have the feeling they are nice and normal.
Very very interesting video. What talent both of these singers have. I've never heard of this group I will certainly investigate and possibly pick up a CD of them. Well thanks again FIL. AND MANY BLESSINGS STAY WELL STAY SAFE
Yes I think so too….too many looking to discredit the man…. Was it his fault that the record company put out the da Vinci version before Alan was even assigned lead singer…no! Would we still have bought the single if it had Alan’s vocals on he record instead of da Vinci’s? ….yes of course because it’s a damned good song …..would it still have got to number one in the charts with Alan’s recorded vocals……? I’m not even going to answer that one! I don’t need to! 🎉
@Ruby Bettes no need to debate it. Sugar Baby Love was no.1 for four weeks in 1974. My sister bought the record and played it to death and then I saw the Rubettes perform the song on TOTP or some other show. I always believed that Alan Williams was the lead singer right from the start then on the next releases such as Juke Box Jive and I Can Do It, the vocals sounded completely different from Sugar Baby Love and thought that Alan had changed the way he was singing. Then I found out many years later that it was Paul Da Vinci who the Rubettes original lead singer on SBL but left the group as he had a solo contract with a different record company. Alan admitted this in a radio interview in 1997.
Later in life Paul worked with a band called, "Barley" I was well impressed with the version they did of this song and he did a great "Frankie Valli set. Had the pleasure of working with him when he was a solo act and he really could hit those notes even with no mike and no effects.He told me that he sang on the original recording and hearing him I couldn't dispute that. Great analysis as ever, keep up the good work it's always very interesting.
Every dj tried to make us believe that the intro of 'Sugar baby love was Paul da Vinci but I agree with you. Because of Paul'da Vinci's vibrato (you can hear this on his 'hit 'Your baby ain't your baby anymore') I've always been sure it wasn't him. By the way: I was 17 back then but I never knew Paul Da Vinci sang Sugar Baby Love as well. I now understand Paul's version was the original. This must have been something we never knew in Holland. So after 49 years I learned something new about this song. And I still prefer the Rubettes' version.
Had to click on this as I was 14 at the time and really liked this song. Mum & Dad must have wondered was being slaughtered in the shower when I used to try hitting these notes. Always wondered about the high notes sung in this one. I never saw a live version ... always sounded exactly like the recording. TV shows rarely allowed live performance of vocals back then.
Rubettes, Four Seasons, Beach Boys, Roy Orbison, Jay and the Americans, and many others during that great time in music. Thanx for the analysis and memories, spot on Fil. 🙂
Wonderful and surprising info, thanks to our brilliant Fil :) I never knew Alan had such a similar voice to Paul! Wonder why he wasn't used on the single recording?
Interesting analysis! The 2 singers do sound very similar, so it is great to see the graph to show the differences. I remember this song. The Rubettes are an English pop/glam rock band from 1974. "Sugar Baby Love" was their biggest hit although they recorded some other songs such as "Tonight", "Juke Box Jive", I Can Do It" etc.
I supported Paul some 40-odd years ago and was left with the impression that it was only his voice, so it is great to know that Alan had the ability and performed this very well. That's me re-educated after so many decades.
This was one of the biggest UK hits of 1974 reaching No1 early in the year. It was ubiquitous and heard everywhere- thousands of school kids attempted that falsetto part. The Rubettes went on to enjoy a run of hits between 1974 and 77. Paul Da Vinci who sang on the original recording didn't want to join the group, he had a solo top 30 hit with Your Baby's Not Your Baby Anymore" that of course featured his signature falsetto. In the 70s the Musician's Union had a real stranglehold on the rules of live public performance in the UK. These rules are draconian by today's standards. For a longtime any artist who performed on TV could not perform simply lip sync to their record. They had to re-record a version for use in their TV performance- this ensured work for musicians and also was a means of ensuring the artist could actually play and sing, proving their credentials as live performers- "Keep Music Live" was their motto. Artists performing on TOTPs would have to record their song using the BBC house musicians and the famous backing singers The Ladybirds who also would accompany artists who did a truly live performance on the show- something that did happen for a period but became less common due to the time and technical constraints of recording a weekly show featuring multiple acts. It was also the rule that if any foreign act appeared on UK TV then a UK act had to be given a slot on US TV- a ridiculously restrictive practice. Many US artists got caught up in this red tape- being used to lip synching to their records was common in the US. Many artists refused to adhere to the UK rules and as a result didn't make the cut for the TV appearance- others didn't get clearance due to the reciprocal arrangements and various performance permits required. It was far easier for US acts to appear on European shows which is why you see so many old video clips of 60s 70s and 80s acts performing on Dutch Show TOP POP their TOTPs equivalent but with no TOTPs clips. The Musician's Union fought hard against the advance of the mobile disco jocks who were much cheaper to employ that a band and less troublesome. This was of course a bit of a losing battle as the 70s progressed as from late 1974 disco became a phenomenon that all but replaced dancing to live music and continues to this day. I can remember the period well, my dad was the local MU rep and I was an aspiring mobile DJ at the time so there were many heated discussions on the topic in our household!
An unexpected choice, most commenters saying “Rubettes? Who?” Great analysis, and great choice if you’re a certain age, I hadn’t heard the Rubettes for a long time (personally my favourite of theirs was Juke Box Jive)
Although I listen to a a lot of classical music these days, the music from the early 70s (the soundtrack of “one’s youth”) still gives me a lot of pleasure and “Sugar Baby Love” - either singer - is a fine example of a hit that still stands the test of time. Thanks very much for the analysis !
I remember hearing lots of music from the 1970s, but I don't recall hearing this particular song. Thanks for sharing this analysis video. Cheers, Fil! ✌️
Always amazin use of P M software in your vocal analysis---- examining separate vocal waves and settling 40+ year argument. Also, enjoyed hearing another example of reinforced falsetto
Never heard of this group , but the falsettos are crazy. These analysis videos are making listen more intently and now I’m going to research this group. You scored a GOAAAAAAL !! 🤘🏿🤘🏿💋💋😍💀💀
Listen to Colin Blunstone's 'Say you don't mind' and 'I don't believe in miracles'. Falsetto notes of the highest order, the former lead singer of the 60s group the Zombies, still performing today.
Detective mode... I'm ready! 🕵️ Oh, that intro and high falsetto!! The first time I listened to this song, many years ago, I thought it was a song by Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons, but fortunately the radio dj said it was The Rubettes 😊 Great analysis, Fil. I couldn't have told the difference between the two singers. Thanks 🖤
This was very interesting! Both vocals are so similar that you would not be able to tell who is singing without running it through the pitch monitor. Great analysis Fil and love those falsetto notes.
This one was a good one tonight, Fil. 👍 I don't recall this band back in their heyday need to listen to other songs by them to see if any ring a bell for me.
OK, the version of Sugar Baby Love that is being analysed is from the Christmas 1974 edition of Top of the Pops, on that performance Alan recorded the vocals but on previous performances they played the original vocal of Paul Da Vinci. Paul Da Vinci has an amazing voice but Alan Williams represents the real spirit of the Rubettes and his image is what most people remember
@@rubybettes5972 it all happened a long time ago, the Rubettes proved they were much more than just Sugar Baby Love, they recorded some great album tracks as well as the singles
@@wondersdontcare I know …some things are best laid to rest but some people won’t let them! I love so many Rubettes songs and SBL is pretty far down on the list….I don’t know if you’ve listened to Great Be the Nation (it’s on CZcams) it really showcases what a great band they evolved into…and there’s definitely no da Vinci ghost voicing! 🤗
Paul DaVinci performed at the App-fest 2022, he still hits the high notes and it’s worth the admission fee just to see him, his voice is the best by far.
Love the analysis! I bought the 45 single as a young teen back in 1974, after hearing it on Casey Kasem's American Top 40 where it reached #37.. It got played some on AM radio stations here in the States during that summer. Reminds me of those elementary school crushes you would get on a cute girl.. From the same time period, I would love to hear an analysis of the band The First Class, with Tony Burrows, who had the hit single "Beach Baby" that summer.. thanks.
Thanks for this investigation. I remember this song so well. It was kind of classic for the era. In those days you’d see an act on Top of the Pops and that was it. There was no video and not much radio in truth back then. Though commercial radio has started and was a breath of fresh air. In the early days of the internet I went searching for a video of this song. I was disappointed that the lead was miming. It’s good to know that he was miming to his own voice. Forgivable if as another reviewer has mentioned that Musician Union Rules didn’t allow lip sync to the record. Thanks for this again.
I'm fairly sure from memory that this era of TOTP is when they would often go in and record their own version before performance (and mime). Ofttimes it was just a backing tape instrumentally and then some runs through with vocal overdubs.
Great analysis of this classic remember buying it when I was still at school zen by 77 I was listening to the stranglers pistols and could you do a analysis on the stranglers one day they were a great band musically philosophically
This stuff is fascinating. Thank you! I know with the violin, vibrato helps with intonation. I just never put that same idea together with voice before, which is weird. That pitch monitoring software looks very useful.
Never thought I'd see the Rubettes get on a reaction channel,so well done Fil. First off,I had spoken with Paul DaVinci earlier in the year about this (it is common knowledge he sang lead vocals on "Sugar Baby Love/You Could Have Told Me"),as many had claimed it was Alan Williams who did the vocal recordings for TV performances of this song. As expected Paul said as much,and your analysis has confirmed it. "Sugar Baby Love" was written by Wayne Bickerton and Tony Waddington (who was head of A&R of Polydor Records) back in mid 1973. They had pitched the song to newcomers Showaddywaddy who nearly signed to Polydor,but ended up on the hit factory label Bell Records - home of The Glitter Band/GG/Bay City Rollers/Drifters/Tony Orlando and Dawn/David Cassidy and Partridge Family/Barry Blue. So they knew the song was good,so got some session musicians to record it. That included of course Paul DaVinci on vocals (he had also done backing vocals on some of Barry Blues hits), Gerry Shury - piano (who had co-written a number of Barry Blues hits),Chris Rae-guitar,Frank McDonald-bass and John Richardson-drums,backing vocals (who was the only one to end up in the Rubettes) and the song was recorded at Landsdown Studios,Holland Park in late 1973. It was released early 1974 and as it was rising up the charts,Bickerton/Waddington knew they might need to get a band together as they already had the name. US act Sparks had to cancel an appearance on TOTPs,so the Rubettes were asked to appear. John Richardson-drums,backing vocals,Tony Thorpe-guitar,backing vocals,Mick Clarke-bass,backing vocals,Bill Hurd-keyboards,backing vocals,Pete Arnesson-keyboards,backing vocals and of course Alan Williams-vocals,guitar were quickly put together and the rest is history. Many decades later,and with different versions of the Rubettes doing the circuit,it all ended up in court earlier this year,with Alan Williams battling for naming rights against Mick Clarke,John Richardson and Steve Innes Etherington of which Williams has won. Part of the reason he won because he was named as vocalist on "Sugar Baby Love" to which the others protested,to no avail. Williams and DaVinci had previously settled out of court over this,to which Williams acknowledged DaVinci was original vocalist on the single,but as we know,Williams and Richardson both sang lead on most of the Rubettes further recordings. I hope this clears a few things up for folks - I had to look back at some of my discussions with Paul to get the truth out there. But good to see some more 70s glam getting reacted to.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Paul Davinci isn’t the lead singer on the original recording, but rather clarifying that Alan Williams did his own version for TOTP and he is in-fact miming to his own version not Paul Davinci’s.
@@TheRaven- yes absolutely correct,and as I said in my comment both DaVinci and Williams had settled this out of court,just that when Williams vs the other members of the Rubettes went to court earlier this year in regards to whom has rights to perform under the Rubettes name,it was erroneously stated that Williams was vocalist on "Sugar Baby Love",and that part was taken into consideration (wrongly),by the judge, which swayed the case towards Williams way. But this was an interesting reaction to see the subtle differences in both vocalists. DaVinci has the edge,but Williams is not far behind,and is a more than capable vocalist. Paul DaVinci is currently gigging around Europe,and the Rubettes featuring Alan Williams have just gone on tour,or are about to embark. Not sure what the Richardson/Clarke version are doing at the moment,but yes indeed - this was a welcome surprise to view today.
@@robhaunui3343 I did a little bit of research .. I did post before but I think it was deleted because I added the links to the court docs and bio . The full court judgement is online and it doesn’t say anywhere that the judge was swayed by believing Alan was on the original record. The thing that did sway them was the goodwill built up by Alan continually being the face of the Rubettes featuring Alan Williams for many years. In Tony Thorpe’s bio (online) he says that the original was at number 51 for three weeks ..it was only once the group appeared by chance on TOTP with the physical look of the band and Alans vocals that it soared to number one ….so you could argue that it was a mixture of the visual look of the band and Alan’s vocals that actually sent it from 51 to number 1 as a lot of the record buying public would not have heard Paul’s version until they bought the record as a result of Alan’s performance 🤔🤔 a kinda chicken and egg
@@TheRaven- Williams never sang this song. The TOPS Christmas show tape was studio musicians and singers from Polydor Records. Alan can't do high notes or on this song even hit the right key. DaVinci was named the original singer and awarded back royalties..This was in addition to the Royalties paid in 74 for Polydor Records using his voice without his permission.
Brilliant analysis. I don't remember this song from my youth but caught it on CZcams a few months back. I laughed watching the dancing? of the band but the song is damn addictive. I must have heard it 100 times in the past few months. Great job Fil.
This song kept Sparks’s “This Town Ain’t Big Enough for Both of Us” from number one. A point of contention for us Mael fans. You should look at that song too-more crazy high notes.
Paul Da Vinci and his band were playing live at a 60s 70s and 80s weekend I attended with my husband recently. It was announced by the Entertainments Manager that Paul sang vocals on Sugar Baby Love, but my God that guy’s voice was fantastic. His vocal range was astonishing. Eventually towards the end of the set he actually sang Sugar Baby Love and he sounded exactly the same as on the single and even the really high notes, and LIVE. We sat there dumbfounded!
Nice one Fil, good to hear you clear up all that about `it`s Paul.. no it`s Alan` stuff. You can tell the difference if you have a copy of each. Alan and his wife are friends of ours, Living a little way up the coast from us here in Sunny Qld. cheers .......If any of my friends are ever feeling down I always tell them to listen to this song. Happy Happy. Always enjoy your work mate.
Haha! I have begun to anthropomorphisise the pitch monitoring software! When you said it was "Doing its best", I was cheering it on.....'C'mon! Pitch monitoring software, you can do it!!" Fun song, cool anaysis!
I don't understand English well, mas eu quero deixar aqui meus parabéns a quem fez esse vídeo, sempre quis saber se era real essa introdução, e pelo que entendi foi REAL, essa banda foi FODÁSTICA!
Bonsoir, merci beaucoup d avoir répondu à un de mes commentaire au sujet de la question que je me posais de la voix de Alan ou pas. Vous m avez répondu oui. Merci pour votre vidéo très intéressante. J aime beaucoup ce groupe j avais 5 ans. 🙏
I was a kid when these came out, and this explains why i use to get this song confused with your baby aint ur baby anymore, same singer which i never knew. Cheers mate!
I was by chance stumbling on the 1974 TOTP version and listened to it as it was one of my favorite songs that year as a young boy. Also watched the 44 years later version and read some comments that didn't make me wiser. So glad to find that you made an analysis of this song and solved the riddle thanks, great video!
I was always told Alan didn't sing this I'm so glad I watched this cos it's on Facebook at the minute and a few people are saying it's not his voice so I can go back now and tell them to watch you and they will have the answer that Alan did sing it thankyou will you be doing any more George Michael cos I love watching yo hear his beautiful voice
Those phrases at the end are also quite a bit different notes wise. Because of that even without the software it's obvious they're different performances. They definitely both use the same technique for the high notes with similar proficiency and timbre but clearly different takes and voices.
I was searching for exacly this comparison, so thank you for making this short video (but it could have been even shorter were you not repeating yourself so much!)
Just for the record (no pun intended). Instead of continually whining on about who sang what, when and where, a modicum of gratitude from Mr Prewer wouldn’t go amiss for all the royalties he has received over the years and the non-stop promotion his club touring career has relied upon curtesy of the Rubettes which would never have been there had I not stepped into the breach on that auspicious day back in April 1974. Make no mistake, up to that first appearance by the Rubettes on TOTP the record ‘Sugar Baby Love’ with or without Prewer’s voice, was destined for the scrap heap along with all the other ‘Flops’ that had gone before and it was without doubt that that iconic appearance by the band, fronted by me, was what plucked Sugar Baby Love from potential obscurity sending it to the top of the charts in double quick time. Had that event never happened Sugar Baby Love would very likely have disappeared without trace. No hit, no royalties, no free promotion and voila, nothing to complain about. Just think, had Mr Prewer been there in my place it may have been an entirely different story, alas, we can only dream. What can be said for sure is that Sugar Baby Love couldn’t have got much higher than it did with me at the helm and if the mediocre chart placing of Prewers’ (Davinci’s) own record is anything to go by it could easily have floundered in the same way had he fronted the band instead of me. I rest my case although I expect the debate will continue to bang on as it has done now for almost half a century, no change there. Boring! P.S. In case you were wondering, no matter what you may have heard to the contrary I also sang backing vocals on Sugar Baby Love in the studio along with five others whom shall remain nameless if only to protect the guilty.
Hi Alan, glad to read from you. On this video it is obviously your voice. I don't know if they made another BBC TOTP with Paul's voice, never found it on the internet. Paul should give us a link. PS : I completely agree with you !
Hi Alan! I had such a huge crush on you when I was a tween! I saw the Rubettes live in the mid seventies and remember being crushed against the front railing so hard I could barely breathe and the security couldn't get me extricated. However, I can confirm that you absolutely did sing SBL live and hit all those wonderful falsetto notes perfectly!
What is da Vinci complaining about….royalties have paid his mortgage and more…he didn’t exactly go on to achieve the giddy heights of success afterwards and Alan is right …..that song would never have been anywhere near as successful without him fronting the band. Love that Alan’s Rubettes are still playing to sell out audiences in Europe…hurry back to the uk sometime soon please.
What a ludicrous statement, nobody gets to see the face of the actual singer when the original recording is played on the radio, which was what propelled it to number 1, long before anyone saw the rubettes on TOTP fronted by Alan Williams, Not taking anything away from him of course, he went on to front a very successful career with the band. But as a matter of sober fact Paul DaVinci is the original singer and the sole reason for its success, as he played a very big roll in arrangement, the falsetto was all his original idea he should’ve got a writing credit too
Hi Alan, I can’t begin to imagine how fed up you must be with the ongoing argument that seems to have no end. This is an aspect of the industry that few see.
how ever it is the rubettes where verry good in live alan williams etc where verry good. they still together i dont now. exactly but i liked the song. all the songs. and alan williams oh boy i head a crush on him. i liked the group.
@petradevries8839 Now there are two bands, one with Alan, another with John and Mick as they left Alan only a few years ago. Many Facebook fanpages on the Rubettes...Bill had another band The Rubettes feat Bill that toured in Europe for about 20 years (and recorded a CD) but I think he has stopped now. Around 2000 Paul was the singer of his band, but he remained only for a short period. Paul has his own band for years now, if I am not wrong I think I remember his son is in his band.
@@KStarDid i know that not everything. nice to hear. but only one thing that people say about alan williams he can sing. etc. i know there are more bands fighting over the name of the band nasty. but the real rubettes are for me alan williams and the others. are realy good. but i grew up. with the rubettes. and the leadsinger was alan he didnt sing sugar baby love that was Paul. but the others songs he sing verry well live instruments a capella. with the others. John Tony. etc. i must say i dont care that. it is fine. eveyone deserves credits in their one way. but i only know. that i think that alan desrves more credit. some people say he is like milli vanilli ore like bobby farrell from boney m. he is verry good in live i saw many video's. alan williams was is my favorite person of the group. but the others deserve credits to. lol
As you can see from my little picture here, of Alan Williams. I am a great fan of the Rubettes and I always knew that it wasn't Alan singing on the original track. I have a website to the Rubettes too and a CZcams channel. The original singer was Paul Da Vinci and it is well known . It never stopped me enjoying the music even though i knew that. I liked your take on this though
Always a pleasure, hearin' you talkin' about so many different styles and singers/musicians in a very professional way, so thanxalot again! If you can save some time, I'd want you to check out Barry Gibb (Bee Gees) with a song called 'Stop (and think again)', out of the brilliant album 'Spirits Having Flown' in 1979.
Alan is for me the best singer of Sugar baby love and he performed live all over Europe. I can’t get enough of hearing him hit the high notes ! One of the best songs ever!❤
Because Paul, the singer on the original track never officially joined the band. When the song went to number one, the new singer had to perform it on TV and the rules of the day required that the new singer did hid own vocal. (The public would have been unaware at the time that another singer was on the original recording).
@@jmysflix The song was re-recorded by studio singers and musicians. Alan couldn't hit the notes right.. The record had already charted before the Rubettes were even formed. Paul was under contract with Penny Farthing records and couldn't front the band. So miming Alan was chosen as Frontman. Sorry choice. He can't sing falsetto.
Have you ever heard of Buddy Rich? Probably the best drummer to have ever lived. There is a video called, Buddy Rich, The Impossible Drum Solo that will leave you speechless. It’s incredible. Buddy Rich was known for his technique and speed and also influenced Phil Collins. He was also a band leader. It’s been said that during this live performance of, The Impossible Drum Solo, that he had a heart attack. He was able to get through it before being taken to the hospital. I hope you have time to watch this, even if you don’t do an analysis. It’s something to see.
I'm guessing they kept Paul's voice because the song was their biggest hit and that falsetto is iconic. I wonder how many other records did the same trick. Very educational analysis.
Alan Williams couldn't sing it. Of course they had already released the DaVinci version so they had to keep Paul's version. If Alan could have re- recorded it , then why did he persist in miming Paul DaVinci from 74 to 84? Why does no version except TOPS Christmas show exist? The BBC kept the TOPS version and Alan couldn't use it but if he sang it there why couldn't he do it again? Because he IS not the singer. It was Polydor musicians and singers that did the TOPS version of Sugar Baby Love. The Rubettes sneaked it in and pretended to record a version but they just used the Polydor tape. Only logical explanation.
@@wesleycook7687 alan sings verry good live a capella with the others guitar. for me he is the only one but Paul also deserves credit. using his voice that is realy unfair. the judge had to give him the credits. but i like alan john Tony etc. but the rubettes where famous with alan. john Tony etc also did lead vocals. but alan williams is my favotite. charisma his voice verry goodlooking. nice person i never heard about drugs nasty to fans. i think normal but i am not shore about it. i never heard it or let fans wait for ours during concerts. no one is perfect. but they seems nice and friendly.
Great analysis Fil. I love that you do such a thorough job. I know who you need to look at for "fakery" and lip-syncing, if you haven't already...Milli Vanilli The bruhaha around their even being able to sing was quite something back in 1989. The youtube video is Milli Vanilli Lake Compounce 1989...the park concert where they supposedly were not actually singing. This debacle ruined them. Their entire career came into question.
Hi there ! It is obvious for every fan of the Rubettes in France Europe and the rest of the world that Alan re recorded the vocals for the BBC TOTP version ! Not so much in the falsetto part and you made a great analysis that will convince anybody still having a doubt, but in the "NORMAL" vocals of the song it is clearly Alan's voice which sounds "sweeter" and not Paul's voice, anyone can hear the difference. I am a french fan for almost 49 years who started to play guitar when I listened to Tony Thorpe solo on Rock 'N' Roll Survival, and when I discovered the BBC version of SBL about 15 years ago I immediately understood Alan was miming his own voice ! By the way on Tonight which is to me a better song than Sugar Baby Love in the same style nobody doubts that Alan Willians sings the falsetto part. And he still sings both songs and many others live touring with his band The Rubettes Featuring Alan Williams all over Europe every year ! Paul Da Vinci is now credited for Singing SBL and You Could Have Told Me on the CD edition of the first album. Bill Hurd, John Richardson and Tony Thorpe sang many songs along with Alan in the seven Rubettes original albums.
Love the fact that you cover music that 'serious' musicologists would reject out of snobbery. Looking back at mid-70s chart music, most of it was as musically adept as that of rock/prog bands of the era. Always liked Rubettes, although we did make silly jokes like "What do they rub?" when they appeared on TotP or Supersonic!
Very interesting and super optical proof! Congratulation and for me as a big Rubettes Fan since the beginning (this song was my first own bought single record and influenced completely my own music from the first moment on) a stunning information. Although I sometimes read, that Alan can do this song too and I also work in my studio with these programms, I never have thought to see a comparation for this song showing so clearly, that Alan really also sang his own version of 'Sugar Baby Love'! But: Here is the proof clearly visible and as You say: These machines never lie! Thank You for this great work and expirience and also thanks to my brother Kurt for recognizing and sendig this video to me. As for me, I have and heard also very often other songs of Paul Da Vince like 'Your Baby Ain't Your Baby Anymore', 'If You Get Hurt' and a newer electronic release of 'Sugar Baby Love' from 1985 and if You compare these recordings with some songs of the Rubettes, where Alan Williams is singing, it is not that hard anymore to hear the difference between the 'Sugar Baby Love' versions in the seventies. Paul is a bit sharper and present, where Alan is more smooth as he is also in the following single 'Tonight', that clearly does not sound wether in the low parts nor in the high pitch parts like Paul did in 'Sugar Baby Love'. Once more: Really great video and research - and all the best from Austria ;).
@@rubybettes5972 The Wings Of Pegasus guy was just comparing the pitch. He used the materials given to him. He knew that one was DaVinci but just assumed it was Alan on the other one. Paul said it was taped by Polydor studios using session musicians and singers. Alan sang everything but the high notes.
On TOTP at that time the artists/bands were not meant to mime to the record. If they were going to mime then they were meant to record a version at the BBC earlier in the day. This did not always happen! I have heard tales of a certain band taking in a tape of the record and mucking about in the studio for a bit and using the original tape anyway (this is in an autobiography written by the drummer!).
For anyone who's interested in hearing more of the story of having to rerecord Sugar Baby Love in an hour-and-a-half for TOTP, Tone spoke about it in this interview a few years ago. czcams.com/video/1_p2b83A2fU/video.html The story starts at 9:40, but there's loads of relevant context from 4:22.
Eu não sei porque tanta polêmica de algo que acontece a 50 anos atrás se esse senhor desconhecido chamado Paulo da Vince gravou a primeira versão de SBL muito bem com certeza ganhou o que lhe pertencia em dividendos , agora quanto a glória pertence a Alan Williams afinal foi quem trabalhou para a música ser divulgada e ser o sucesso que foi e aínda é então gente chega blá blá blá Alan é o sucesso e ponto final,
It is. He's on here saying that he made Sugar Baby Love a hit and Paul's version would have flopped. The only thing is Alan Williams mimed the DaVinci version in April 74 and used studio musicians and singers on the Christmas show. The April TOPS show is the one that should have been anaylized, not December. BBC probably still has a tape of it but they wouldn't release it for Wings Of Pegasus to compare it to Paul DaVinci. One thing is certain.: If Alan actually sings Sugar Baby Love, why are all the clips from 1974 onwards using Paul's voice? It wasn't until 1984 that Alan screeched through a live version in Germany. The host joins in forcing Alan to sing live. It's on U Tube. It's terrible. Paul's version had already charted before the Rubettes were even formed. Polydor Records threw a band together and used Paul's voice on TOPS in April. Alan couldn't sing it so Paul's version was blatantly used by Williams but his story and Paul's story are totally different.
So it seems it was sung live but more generally TotP went through a period of insisting that the song was re-recorded for the programme, something to do with the music unions. If lead singers changed, it would not surprise me that the new singer had sung it.
This is sooooo interesting. I grew up with Rubettes. Love them. And I did notice a difference in tracks years ago but could never pinpoint it. How fascinating is this. ❤ Love it. Thankyou. Subscribed.
I worked alongside Alan Williams with the Rubettes years ago and they performed this song live on the night. I also have worked and still do play with Paul Da Vinci from time to time and have performed this song with him many times providing guitar and BVs. He can still hit the notes and you are correct in saying that he was the original vocalist on the hit record. The song was originally a demo made by session musicians including Paul Da Vinci and was to be pitched as a potential song for Shawaddywaddy but they didn't take it so a band was formed around the session group after the record was recorded, and Williams was brought in as vocalist as Paul had signed a solo deal with another record company. The vocal was supposed to be re recorded in light of Paul's departure, that was the agreement, but it wasn't and the record was released with Paul's vocal on it. It has caused controversy over the years with many people assuming Alan Williams sang on the original record when it was Paul Da Vinci.
Great history!👍🏻
Alan canta melhor que Paul e sabemos que Alan gravou.a música, a verdade é que todas as outras músicas com The Rubettes são maravilhosas . Alan é especial!!
There was never a dought in my mind that Da Vinci was the voice on the hit record but hearing it from a guy that was right there on the spot... thanks for your feed on this one, jonbeedle!
That makes perfect sense.
@@wesleycook7687 aceite , é melhor. A tecnologia não lie. Alan canta ao vivo maravilhosamente bem, todos esses anos em shows. Por quê não canta em disco?
For some strange reason I feel better knowing that Alan recorded his own version of this great vocal.
Well said. I feel the same
@@Koganman123 Yes I always thought Alan was miming to Paul's vocal so this analysis was very informative. He actually did a great job to sound so similar to the original and hit those incredibly high notes.
Me too
@@wesleycook7687 Está provado que Alan canta. Você não acredita na tecnologia? Alan tem talento, presença de palco e é iluminado.
@@wesleycook7687 Nem merece resposta
Pretty clear, two different vocals. Amazing that both singers could hit these falsetto notes in a similar but different way. Great video. I remember this song when it came out and was amazed by the vocals at the time. I can actually hear the difference when you compare them side by side. Cudos to the second singer for re-recording his own version of the song.
@@wesleycook7687 Then how do you explain what this video shows? The two singers hit the falsetto notes in completely different ways, one going straight into vibrato and going slightly sharp while the other holds the notes before going into vibrato and going slightly flat?
@@kikicliff2519esley Cook doesn’t listen to any one’s opinion. He let’s his own prejudiced blinkered views cloud the obvious! Phil on the video says that Alan did a pretty good job vocally and to the untrained ear that just likes a good singalong song …..well, we probably wouldn’t know any different and we’d have bought it anyway. Alan recorded his own vocal and he mimed to this on performances …. That’s what the guy on the video is saying and gives him kudos for doing it so well. Yes …da Vinci does it better, his vibrato and pitch is better…. but does it make it a better song ….no, us record buyers of 1974 would have still bought it if Polydor had put out Alan’s version. Wesley is on his own personal mission to put down Alan…..I’ve not been able to get him to see sense for the last two years … Phil in the video tells it how it is and he still bangs on about Alan being a fake! 🤷♀️ who’d have thought we’d still be arguing about a song 44 years on!
And to the untrained ear very similar…. You’re better than me …I couldn’t tell the difference! Alan is not the fake some people are saying….you know who you are WC! ….and Phil gives him praise for doing a good job on his re-recording of the song.
😂😂😂Rubettes. He's miming. He can't sing Sugar Baby Love and has always used other people's talents as voice overs..Why hasn't he recorded it? He CANNOT sing Sugar Baby Love..
Do you know what they are saying while doing the high notes
Never heard of the band, just watched because your analysis is always so right on and compelling.
Thanks!
They sound so similar I would have never picked out the differences!
Had the pleasure of working with the Rubettes as a sound engineer on two occasions firstly with Alan as the lead singer and secondly with other original members of the band with a different lead singer, can't remember his name, both were excellent singer's with no backing tracks or jiggery-pokery on the sound, really enjoyable gig's, also a gentleman taking myself and roadie and band out for a meal after the soundcheck
nice to hear that.
I was in junior high school at the time this song came out. I really loved how many songs embraced a 50s sound at that time. With American Graffiti a new other movies extolling the 50s, sock hops, doowop and dressing up became popular.
This song wasn't very popular in the US but it did reach 32-34 on the charts for a few days. It was more like disco which was just beginning in 74, but was ignored by most radio stations and DJs. Nobody knew what to do with it. Oldies stations couldn't play it and top 40 was playing hard rock. A few pop stations played it. Casey Kasem's Top 100 did play it on his New Year's Eve show.
Takes me back to my childhood, loved this song, love watching the old videos and really appreciate your analysis and explanation of the differences. Great job as always
Thanks!
It was a requirement by the Musicians Union back then that if you appeared on Top of the Pops you had to re-record the track and not just mime to the record. A rep would be in the studio to watch the recording and take the master tape away with them. Some savvy bands like Sweet used to go through the motions of recording but distract the rep at some point and give them a copy of the original recording.
ABBA had the master tape smuggled into the BBC and tricked the Musicians Union 🤭 czcams.com/video/FmEq0z5ru30/video.html
That's probably what really happened here. A version was recorded by Polydor Records and the Rubettes just sneaked it in. Alan couldn't sing it so they just recorded a version at BBC studios using the Polydor singers and musicians' version as the voices on their tape that they were supposed to mime to. It's a thought. One thing is for sure: Alan Williams is not the singer on Sugar Baby Love for TOPS or anywhere else.
@@wesleycook7687 completely the opposite of what this video conclusively proves. I also saw the Rubettes lives once and Alan sung this song.
@@kikicliff2519🥜🥜🥜. Alan Williams cannot sing Sugar Baby Love. What you heard was a backing track and Williams miming to someone else 's talent..
As I said, I saw them live and he sung this song. Live. This video is comparing two TotP performances and showing that they are clearly two different singers. You need to get over this obsession you have with Alan Williams.
I am always amazed at how much I learn about a song, instrument, or artist from you. Even a song I've heard over and over or a song that seems so simple and straightforward ... you always find something to teach us and you make it interesting. Thank you as always!
I worked as lead singer of the Rubettes for a short time around 10 years ago, we always performed everything live, this note was a b*tch to hit😂😂 would take me about a month of warming up to get up there again now😂
Great video, really interesting watch.
oh realy you did oh wow how nice i grew up with the group alan williams oh boy loved the music glam rock. i still listen to the music. i live in the netherlands they had so much succes in my country. they are verry good in live. i have the feeling they are nice and normal.
i can not remember you singing for the rubettes
Me either. It's always been howling Alan..He CANNOT sing high notes..
@@tonypike7906 it was like 11 years ago for a very short period as a session singer filling in.
@@wesleycook7687 aha, now you 're giving us the truth, that Paul is the better one?
Very very interesting video. What talent both of these singers have. I've never heard of this group I will certainly investigate and possibly pick up a CD of them. Well thanks again FIL. AND MANY BLESSINGS STAY WELL STAY SAFE
Fil thank you so much for doing this analysis brilliant , It’s a shame that Alan wasn’t given more credit for his own version ..
Yes I think so too….too many looking to discredit the man…. Was it his fault that the record company put out the da Vinci version before Alan was even assigned lead singer…no! Would we still have bought the single if it had Alan’s vocals on he record instead of da Vinci’s? ….yes of course because it’s a damned good song …..would it still have got to number one in the charts with Alan’s recorded vocals……? I’m not even going to answer that one! I don’t need to! 🎉
@Ruby Bettes no need to debate it. Sugar Baby Love was no.1 for four weeks in 1974. My sister bought the record and played it to death and then I saw the Rubettes perform the song on TOTP or some other show.
I always believed that Alan Williams was the lead singer right from the start then on the next releases such as Juke Box Jive and I Can Do It, the vocals sounded completely different from Sugar Baby Love and thought that Alan had changed the way he was singing.
Then I found out many years later that it was Paul Da Vinci who the Rubettes original lead singer on SBL but left the group as he had a solo contract with a different record company. Alan admitted this in a radio interview in 1997.
Later in life Paul worked with a band called, "Barley" I was well impressed with the version they did of this song and he did a great "Frankie Valli set. Had the pleasure of working with him when he was a solo act and he really could hit those notes even with no mike and no effects.He told me that he sang on the original recording and hearing him I couldn't dispute that. Great analysis as ever, keep up the good work it's always very interesting.
Every dj tried to make us believe that the intro of 'Sugar baby love was Paul da Vinci but I agree with you. Because of Paul'da Vinci's vibrato (you can hear this on his 'hit 'Your baby ain't your baby anymore') I've always been sure it wasn't him. By the way: I was 17 back then but I never knew Paul Da Vinci sang Sugar Baby Love as well. I now understand Paul's version was the original. This must have been something we never knew in Holland. So after 49 years I learned something new about this song. And I still prefer the Rubettes' version.
Had to click on this as I was 14 at the time and really liked this song. Mum & Dad must have wondered was being slaughtered in the shower when I used to try hitting these notes. Always wondered about the high notes sung in this one. I never saw a live version ... always sounded exactly like the recording. TV shows rarely allowed live performance of vocals back then.
This was great Fil, especially when you hit the falsetto parts and played the original recording and the TOTP performance.
Rubettes, Four Seasons, Beach Boys, Roy Orbison, Jay and the Americans, and many others during that great time in music. Thanx for the analysis and memories, spot on Fil. 🙂
Wonderful and surprising info, thanks to our brilliant Fil :) I never knew Alan had such a similar voice to Paul! Wonder why he wasn't used on the single recording?
Interesting analysis! The 2 singers do sound very similar, so it is great to see the graph to show the differences. I remember this song. The Rubettes are an English pop/glam rock band from 1974. "Sugar Baby Love" was their biggest hit although they recorded some other songs such as "Tonight", "Juke Box Jive", I Can Do It" etc.
I supported Paul some 40-odd years ago and was left with the impression that it was only his voice, so it is great to know that Alan had the ability and performed this very well. That's me re-educated after so many decades.
This was one of the biggest UK hits of 1974 reaching No1 early in the year. It was ubiquitous and heard everywhere- thousands of school kids attempted that falsetto part. The Rubettes went on to enjoy a run of hits between 1974 and 77. Paul Da Vinci who sang on the original recording didn't want to join the group, he had a solo top 30 hit with Your Baby's Not Your Baby Anymore" that of course featured his signature falsetto. In the 70s the Musician's Union had a real stranglehold on the rules of live public performance in the UK. These rules are draconian by today's standards. For a longtime any artist who performed on TV could not perform simply lip sync to their record. They had to re-record a version for use in their TV performance- this ensured work for musicians and also was a means of ensuring the artist could actually play and sing, proving their credentials as live performers- "Keep Music Live" was their motto. Artists performing on TOTPs would have to record their song using the BBC house musicians and the famous backing singers The Ladybirds who also would accompany artists who did a truly live performance on the show- something that did happen for a period but became less common due to the time and technical constraints of recording a weekly show featuring multiple acts. It was also the rule that if any foreign act appeared on UK TV then a UK act had to be given a slot on US TV- a ridiculously restrictive practice. Many US artists got caught up in this red tape- being used to lip synching to their records was common in the US. Many artists refused to adhere to the UK rules and as a result didn't make the cut for the TV appearance- others didn't get clearance due to the reciprocal arrangements and various performance permits required. It was far easier for US acts to appear on European shows which is why you see so many old video clips of 60s 70s and 80s acts performing on Dutch Show TOP POP their TOTPs equivalent but with no TOTPs clips. The Musician's Union fought hard against the advance of the mobile disco jocks who were much cheaper to employ that a band and less troublesome. This was of course a bit of a losing battle as the 70s progressed as from late 1974 disco became a phenomenon that all but replaced dancing to live music and continues to this day. I can remember the period well, my dad was the local MU rep and I was an aspiring mobile DJ at the time so there were many heated discussions on the topic in our household!
Sesudas. reflexiones para una gran canción.
It actually reached Number 1 in May 1974, it was Number One for a few weeks and still there on my 21st birthday, Saturday 8 June 1974.
An unexpected choice, most commenters saying “Rubettes? Who?” Great analysis, and great choice if you’re a certain age, I hadn’t heard the Rubettes for a long time (personally my favourite of theirs was Juke Box Jive)
Although I listen to a a lot of classical music these days, the music from the early 70s (the soundtrack of “one’s youth”) still gives me a lot of pleasure and “Sugar Baby Love” - either singer - is a fine example of a hit that still stands the test of time. Thanks very much for the analysis !
This is absolutely fascinating! I’ve been wondering for decades! 😂 Always loved the song. Thankyou so much for this, Great work! 👍👏👏👏
I remember hearing lots of music from the 1970s, but I don't recall hearing this particular song. Thanks for sharing this analysis video. Cheers, Fil! ✌️
It was very popular mid-70s in my country. In fact, it was one of my favourites. I guess it might depend on where you live.
What a joyful experience seeing you listen (and smile) to this song, so adorable!! 😊💛🌞
Really clear outcome, 2 different singers, interesting video. Thank you for posting.
Great video FIL! Amazing how similar their tones are. Thank you. The software don't lie!
Cool, different analysis. Fun old song from a group never heard of. Thanks Fil😊🎼🤟💫
Always amazin use of P M software in your vocal analysis---- examining separate vocal waves and settling 40+ year argument.
Also, enjoyed hearing another example of reinforced falsetto
By studio musicians and singers. Alan can't sing this song.
Never heard of this group , but the falsettos are crazy. These analysis videos are making listen more intently and now I’m going to research this group. You scored a GOAAAAAAL !!
🤘🏿🤘🏿💋💋😍💀💀
Research Paul DaVinci. He's the true singer on the number one record. The Rubettes were formed after the record started climbing the charts
Listen to Colin Blunstone's 'Say you don't mind' and 'I don't believe in miracles'. Falsetto notes of the highest order, the former lead singer of the 60s group the Zombies, still performing today.
Detective mode... I'm ready! 🕵️
Oh, that intro and high falsetto!! The first time I listened to this song, many years ago, I thought it was a song by Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons, but fortunately the radio dj said it was The Rubettes 😊
Great analysis, Fil. I couldn't have told the difference between the two singers. Thanks 🖤
This was very interesting! Both vocals are so similar that you would not be able to tell who is singing without running it through the pitch monitor. Great analysis Fil and love those falsetto notes.
Hey Linda! I agree with you, they sound so much alike and they are good. I don't recognize this song and I'm an "oldie". See you Saturday.
@@pamalaalford1081 Hi Pamala so am I and vaguely remember it. Lol! See you on Saturday!
@@wesleycook7687 Thank you for the update
This one was a good one tonight, Fil. 👍 I don't recall this band back in their heyday need to listen to other songs by them to see if any ring a bell for me.
OK, the version of Sugar Baby Love that is being analysed is from the Christmas 1974 edition of Top of the Pops, on that performance Alan recorded the vocals but on previous performances they played the original vocal of Paul Da Vinci.
Paul Da Vinci has an amazing voice but Alan Williams represents the real spirit of the Rubettes and his image is what most people remember
Alan gravou também a música Sugar Baby Love é essa a melhor
Bullshit.
You’re absolutely right! Most of us just don’t care who sang what….it’s just a damned good song and Alan as frontman was perfect!😊
@@rubybettes5972 it all happened a long time ago, the Rubettes proved they were much more than just Sugar Baby Love, they recorded some great album tracks as well as the singles
@@wondersdontcare I know …some things are best laid to rest but some people won’t let them! I love so many Rubettes songs and SBL is pretty far down on the list….I don’t know if you’ve listened to Great Be the Nation (it’s on CZcams) it really showcases what a great band they evolved into…and there’s definitely no da Vinci ghost voicing! 🤗
Paul DaVinci performed at the App-fest 2022, he still hits the high notes and it’s worth the admission fee just to see him, his voice is the best by far.
Love the analysis! I bought the 45 single as a young teen back in 1974, after hearing it on Casey Kasem's American Top 40 where it reached #37.. It got played some on AM radio stations here in the States during that summer. Reminds me of those elementary school crushes you would get on a cute girl..
From the same time period, I would love to hear an analysis of the band The First Class, with Tony Burrows, who had the hit single "Beach Baby" that summer.. thanks.
Paul De Vinci is an AMAZING vocalist and is still going strong !! ❤
And? So is Alan..
@@smitbar11 Alan second by a days march. It is obvious
Thanks for this investigation. I remember this song so well. It was kind of classic for the era. In those days you’d see an act on Top of the Pops and that was it. There was no video and not much radio in truth back then. Though commercial radio has started and was a breath of fresh air. In the early days of the internet I went searching for a video of this song. I was disappointed that the lead was miming. It’s good to know that he was miming to his own voice. Forgivable if as another reviewer has mentioned that Musician Union Rules didn’t allow lip sync to the record. Thanks for this again.
Saw them live when I was young and they were so good.
Remember this well. Great analysis Fil. Very enjoyable 👍
I'm fairly sure from memory that this era of TOTP is when they would often go in and record their own version before performance (and mime). Ofttimes it was just a backing tape instrumentally and then some runs through with vocal overdubs.
Very interesting. I have 2 vinyl records of the Rubettes. I like the song Under one roof. And Youre the reason why.
Great analysis of this classic remember buying it when I was still at school zen by 77 I was listening to the stranglers pistols and could you do a analysis on the stranglers one day they were a great band musically philosophically
This stuff is fascinating. Thank you! I know with the violin, vibrato helps with intonation. I just never put that same idea together with voice before, which is weird. That pitch monitoring software looks very useful.
Never thought I'd see the Rubettes get on a reaction channel,so well done Fil. First off,I had spoken with Paul DaVinci earlier in the year about this (it is common knowledge he sang lead vocals on "Sugar Baby Love/You Could Have Told Me"),as many had claimed it was Alan Williams who did the vocal recordings for TV performances of this song. As expected Paul said as much,and your analysis has confirmed it. "Sugar Baby Love" was written by Wayne Bickerton and Tony Waddington (who was head of A&R of Polydor Records) back in mid 1973. They had pitched the song to newcomers Showaddywaddy who nearly signed to Polydor,but ended up on the hit factory label Bell Records - home of The Glitter Band/GG/Bay City Rollers/Drifters/Tony Orlando and Dawn/David Cassidy and Partridge Family/Barry Blue. So they knew the song was good,so got some session musicians to record it. That included of course Paul DaVinci on vocals (he had also done backing vocals on some of Barry Blues hits), Gerry Shury - piano (who had co-written a number of Barry Blues hits),Chris Rae-guitar,Frank McDonald-bass and John Richardson-drums,backing vocals (who was the only one to end up in the Rubettes) and the song was recorded at Landsdown Studios,Holland Park in late 1973. It was released early 1974 and as it was rising up the charts,Bickerton/Waddington knew they might need to get a band together as they already had the name. US act Sparks had to cancel an appearance on TOTPs,so the Rubettes were asked to appear. John Richardson-drums,backing vocals,Tony Thorpe-guitar,backing vocals,Mick Clarke-bass,backing vocals,Bill Hurd-keyboards,backing vocals,Pete Arnesson-keyboards,backing vocals and of course Alan Williams-vocals,guitar were quickly put together and the rest is history. Many decades later,and with different versions of the Rubettes doing the circuit,it all ended up in court earlier this year,with Alan Williams battling for naming rights against Mick Clarke,John Richardson and Steve Innes Etherington of which Williams has won. Part of the reason he won because he was named as vocalist on "Sugar Baby Love" to which the others protested,to no avail. Williams and DaVinci had previously settled out of court over this,to which Williams acknowledged DaVinci was original vocalist on the single,but as we know,Williams and Richardson both sang lead on most of the Rubettes further recordings. I hope this clears a few things up for folks - I had to look back at some of my discussions with Paul to get the truth out there. But good to see some more 70s glam getting reacted to.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Paul Davinci isn’t the lead singer on the original recording, but rather clarifying that Alan Williams did his own version for TOTP and he is in-fact miming to his own version not Paul Davinci’s.
@@TheRaven- yes absolutely correct,and as I said in my comment both DaVinci and Williams had settled this out of court,just that when Williams vs the other members of the Rubettes went to court earlier this year in regards to whom has rights to perform under the Rubettes name,it was erroneously stated that Williams was vocalist on "Sugar Baby Love",and that part was taken into consideration (wrongly),by the judge, which swayed the case towards Williams way. But this was an interesting reaction to see the subtle differences in both vocalists. DaVinci has the edge,but Williams is not far behind,and is a more than capable vocalist. Paul DaVinci is currently gigging around Europe,and the Rubettes featuring Alan Williams have just gone on tour,or are about to embark. Not sure what the Richardson/Clarke version are doing at the moment,but yes indeed - this was a welcome surprise to view today.
@@robhaunui3343 I did a little bit of research .. I did post before but I think it was deleted because I added the links to the court docs and bio . The full court judgement is online and it doesn’t say anywhere that the judge was swayed by believing Alan was on the original record. The thing that did sway them was the goodwill built up by Alan continually being the face of the Rubettes featuring Alan Williams for many years. In Tony Thorpe’s bio (online) he says that the original was at number 51 for three weeks ..it was only once the group appeared by chance on TOTP with the physical look of the band and Alans vocals that it soared to number one ….so you could argue that it was a mixture of the visual look of the band and Alan’s vocals that actually sent it from 51 to number 1 as a lot of the record buying public would not have heard Paul’s version until they bought the record as a result of Alan’s performance 🤔🤔 a kinda chicken and egg
@@TheRaven- Williams never sang this song. The TOPS Christmas show tape was studio musicians and singers from Polydor Records. Alan can't do high notes or on this song even hit the right key. DaVinci was named the original singer and awarded back royalties..This was in addition to the Royalties paid in 74 for Polydor Records using his voice without his permission.
Brilliant analysis. I don't remember this song from my youth but caught it on CZcams a few months back. I laughed watching the dancing? of the band but the song is damn addictive. I must have heard it 100 times in the past few months. Great job Fil.
Loved and still do this song. How very interesting, I had no idea😳👏👏
I remember it from back in the day which is good (memory still working) and bad (makes me realise how long since I was a youth).
This song kept Sparks’s “This Town Ain’t Big Enough for Both of Us” from number one. A point of contention for us Mael fans. You should look at that song too-more crazy high notes.
A música mais linda de todos os tempos, na voz do fantástico Alan.
Paul Da Vinci and his band were playing live at a 60s 70s and 80s weekend I attended with my husband recently. It was announced by the Entertainments Manager that Paul sang vocals on Sugar Baby Love, but my God that guy’s voice was fantastic. His vocal range was astonishing. Eventually towards the end of the set he actually sang Sugar Baby Love and he sounded exactly the same as on the single and even the really high notes, and LIVE. We sat there dumbfounded!
Nice one Fil, good to hear you clear up all that about `it`s Paul.. no it`s Alan` stuff. You can tell the difference if you have a copy of each. Alan and his wife are friends of ours, Living a little way up the coast from us here in Sunny Qld. cheers .......If any of my friends are ever feeling down I always tell them to listen to this song. Happy Happy.
Always enjoy your work mate.
Excellent analysis Fil. Many thanks
Paul Da Vinci is the singer\voice on the original track "Sugar Baby Love". And better singer imo.
Haha! I have begun to anthropomorphisise the pitch monitoring software! When you said it was "Doing its best", I was cheering it on.....'C'mon! Pitch monitoring software, you can do it!!" Fun song, cool anaysis!
Lol! Hi Lynn
@@lindadescafano3749 Hi Linda! Really....I'm getting to know that nice Mr. P.M. Software!
Parabéns pelo magnífico trabalho!!!
I don't understand English well, mas eu quero deixar aqui meus parabéns a quem fez esse vídeo, sempre quis saber se era real essa introdução, e pelo que entendi foi REAL, essa banda foi FODÁSTICA!
I have never heard of The Rubettes, but it was a great analysis!
Bonsoir, merci beaucoup d avoir répondu à un de mes commentaire au sujet de la question que je me posais de la voix de Alan ou pas.
Vous m avez répondu oui.
Merci pour votre vidéo très intéressante.
J aime beaucoup ce groupe j avais 5 ans.
🙏
I was a kid when these came out, and this explains why i use to get this song confused with your baby aint ur baby anymore, same singer which i never knew. Cheers mate!
This is genuinely interesting- once you’ve seen the display of Paul’s vibrato you can never unhear it!
I was by chance stumbling on the 1974 TOTP version and listened to it as it was one of my favorite songs that year as a young boy. Also watched the 44 years later version and read some comments that didn't make me wiser. So glad to find that you made an analysis of this song and solved the riddle thanks, great video!
Fascinating. And clear as day when you break it down like this. Love Alan's voice
I was watching the Rubettes performing it live and they now appear to play it in Bb and not C. Great video of yours by the way.
I was always told Alan didn't sing this I'm so glad I watched this cos it's on Facebook at the minute and a few people are saying it's not his voice so I can go back now and tell them to watch you and they will have the answer that Alan did sing it thankyou will you be doing any more George Michael cos I love watching yo hear his beautiful voice
Those phrases at the end are also quite a bit different notes wise. Because of that even without the software it's obvious they're different performances. They definitely both use the same technique for the high notes with similar proficiency and timbre but clearly different takes and voices.
How wonderful to see a video on this song. I adore this track and have never known anyone else who can even stand it.
I was searching for exacly this comparison, so thank you for making this short video (but it could have been even shorter were you not repeating yourself so much!)
very interesting thank you , always loved this song
Love your analysis of this song from my teenage years. Also, that's an awesome T-shirt.
Just for the record (no pun intended). Instead of continually whining on about who sang what, when and where, a modicum of gratitude from Mr Prewer wouldn’t go amiss for all the royalties he has received over the years and the non-stop promotion his club touring career has relied upon curtesy of the Rubettes which would never have been there had I not stepped into the breach on that auspicious day back in April 1974. Make no mistake, up to that first appearance by the Rubettes on TOTP the record ‘Sugar Baby Love’ with or without Prewer’s voice, was destined for the scrap heap along with all the other ‘Flops’ that had gone before and it was without doubt that that iconic appearance by the band, fronted by me, was what plucked Sugar Baby Love from potential obscurity sending it to the top of the charts in double quick time. Had that event never happened Sugar Baby Love would very likely have disappeared without trace. No hit, no royalties, no free promotion and voila, nothing to complain about. Just think, had Mr Prewer been there in my place it may have been an entirely different story, alas, we can only dream. What can be said for sure is that Sugar Baby Love couldn’t have got much higher than it did with me at the helm and if the mediocre chart placing of Prewers’ (Davinci’s) own record is anything to go by it could easily have floundered in the same way had he fronted the band instead of me. I rest my case although I expect the debate will continue to bang on as it has done now for almost half a century, no change there. Boring!
P.S. In case you were wondering, no matter what you may have heard to the contrary I also sang backing vocals on Sugar Baby Love in the studio along with five others whom shall remain nameless if only to protect the guilty.
Hi Alan, glad to read from you. On this video it is obviously your voice. I don't know if they made another BBC TOTP with Paul's voice, never found it on the internet. Paul should give us a link. PS : I completely agree with you !
Hi Alan! I had such a huge crush on you when I was a tween! I saw the Rubettes live in the mid seventies and remember being crushed against the front railing so hard I could barely breathe and the security couldn't get me extricated. However, I can confirm that you absolutely did sing SBL live and hit all those wonderful falsetto notes perfectly!
What is da Vinci complaining about….royalties have paid his mortgage and more…he didn’t exactly go on to achieve the giddy heights of success afterwards and Alan is right …..that song would never have been anywhere near as successful without him fronting the band. Love that Alan’s Rubettes are still playing to sell out audiences in Europe…hurry back to the uk sometime soon please.
What a ludicrous statement, nobody gets to see the face of the actual singer when the original recording is played on the radio, which was what propelled it to number 1, long before anyone saw the rubettes on TOTP fronted by Alan Williams,
Not taking anything away from him of course, he went on to front a very successful career with the band.
But as a matter of sober fact Paul DaVinci is the original singer and the sole reason for its success, as he played a very big roll in arrangement, the falsetto was all his original idea he should’ve got a writing credit too
Hi Alan, I can’t begin to imagine how fed up you must be with the ongoing argument that seems to have no end. This is an aspect of the industry that few see.
how ever it is the rubettes where verry good in live alan williams etc where verry good. they still together i dont now. exactly but i liked the song. all the songs. and alan williams oh boy i head a crush on him. i liked the group.
@petradevries8839 Now there are two bands, one with Alan, another with John and Mick as they left Alan only a few years ago. Many Facebook fanpages on the Rubettes...Bill had another band The Rubettes feat Bill that toured in Europe for about 20 years (and recorded a CD) but I think he has stopped now. Around 2000 Paul was the singer of his band, but he remained only for a short period. Paul has his own band for years now, if I am not wrong I think I remember his son is in his band.
@@KStarDid i know that not everything. nice to hear. but only one thing that people say about alan williams he can sing. etc. i know there are more bands fighting over the name of the band nasty. but the real rubettes are for me alan williams and the others. are realy good. but i grew up. with the rubettes. and the leadsinger was alan he didnt sing sugar baby love that was Paul. but the others songs he sing verry well live instruments a capella. with the others. John Tony. etc. i must say i dont care that. it is fine. eveyone deserves credits in their one way. but i only know. that i think that alan desrves more credit. some people say he is like milli vanilli ore like bobby farrell from boney m. he is verry good in live i saw many video's. alan williams was is my favorite person of the group. but the others deserve credits to. lol
I was alive during this era.
I used cassette tapes.....
I remember thinking this was the best time to be alive MUSICALLY...!!!!!!
I was about 21- 22 when a friend of mine sang this back in 1974 or 1975 and it was already a debate then. I'm a 71 year old South African.
As you can see from my little picture here, of Alan Williams. I am a great fan of the Rubettes and I always knew that it wasn't Alan singing on the original track. I have a website to the Rubettes too and a CZcams channel. The original singer was Paul Da Vinci and it is well known . It never stopped me enjoying the music even though i knew that. I liked your take on this though
Always a pleasure, hearin' you talkin' about so many different styles and singers/musicians in a very professional way, so thanxalot again! If you can save some time, I'd want you to check out Barry Gibb (Bee Gees) with a song called 'Stop (and think again)', out of the brilliant album 'Spirits Having Flown' in 1979.
Alan is for me the best singer of Sugar baby love and he performed live all over Europe. I can’t get enough of hearing him hit the high notes ! One of the best songs ever!❤
I just wonder why both singers sang the lead. Fascinating analysis.
Because Paul, the singer on the original track never officially joined the band. When the song went to number one, the new singer had to perform it on TV and the rules of the day required that the new singer did hid own vocal. (The public would have been unaware at the time that another singer was on the original recording).
@@jmysflix The song was re-recorded by studio singers and musicians. Alan couldn't hit the notes right.. The record had already charted before the Rubettes were even formed. Paul was under contract with Penny Farthing records and couldn't front the band. So miming Alan was chosen as Frontman. Sorry choice. He can't sing falsetto.
Alan gravou Sugar Baby Love em 1974 com sua linda voz e fez sucesso nos The Rubettes.
@@lillianchristina4938 Paul DaVinci has his own comment on this very channel. Read it from the man that actually sang the song.
@@lillianchristina4938 Alan never re-recorded SBL. He can't sing this song.
Have you ever heard of Buddy Rich? Probably the best drummer to have ever lived. There is a video called, Buddy Rich, The Impossible Drum Solo that will leave you speechless. It’s incredible. Buddy Rich was known for his technique and speed and also influenced Phil Collins. He was also a band leader. It’s been said that during this live performance of, The Impossible Drum Solo, that he had a heart attack. He was able to get through it before being taken to the hospital. I hope you have time to watch this, even if you don’t do an analysis. It’s something to see.
I'm guessing they kept Paul's voice because the song was their biggest hit and that falsetto is iconic. I wonder how many other records did the same trick. Very educational analysis.
Alan Williams couldn't sing it. Of course they had already released the DaVinci version so they had to keep Paul's version. If Alan could have re- recorded it , then why did he persist in miming Paul DaVinci from 74 to 84? Why does no version except TOPS Christmas show exist? The BBC kept the TOPS version and Alan couldn't use it but if he sang it there why couldn't he do it again? Because he IS not the singer. It was Polydor musicians and singers that did the TOPS version of Sugar Baby Love. The Rubettes sneaked it in and pretended to record a version but they just used the Polydor tape. Only logical explanation.
@@wesleycook7687 alan sings verry good live a capella with the others guitar. for me he is the only one but Paul also deserves credit. using his voice that is realy unfair. the judge had to give him the credits. but i like alan john Tony etc. but the rubettes where famous with alan. john Tony etc also did lead vocals. but alan williams is my favotite. charisma his voice verry goodlooking. nice person i never heard about drugs nasty to fans. i think normal but i am not shore about it. i never heard it or let fans wait for ours during concerts. no one is perfect. but they seems nice and friendly.
Great analysis Fil. I love that you do such a thorough job.
I know who you need to look at for "fakery" and lip-syncing, if you haven't already...Milli Vanilli The bruhaha around their even being able to sing was quite something back in 1989. The youtube video is Milli Vanilli Lake Compounce 1989...the park concert where they supposedly were not actually singing. This debacle ruined them. Their entire career came into question.
Alan Williams did the vocals on TOTP - he was miming to his recording of the song for TOTP - according to the man himself
Hi there ! It is obvious for every fan of the Rubettes in France Europe and the rest of the world that Alan re recorded the vocals for the BBC TOTP version ! Not so much in the falsetto part and you made a great analysis that will convince anybody still having a doubt, but in the "NORMAL" vocals of the song it is clearly Alan's voice which sounds "sweeter" and not Paul's voice, anyone can hear the difference. I am a french fan for almost 49 years who started to play guitar when I listened to Tony Thorpe solo on Rock 'N' Roll Survival, and when I discovered the BBC version of SBL about 15 years ago I immediately understood Alan was miming his own voice ! By the way on Tonight which is to me a better song than Sugar Baby Love in the same style nobody doubts that Alan Willians sings the falsetto part. And he still sings both songs and many others live touring with his band The Rubettes Featuring Alan Williams all over Europe every year ! Paul Da Vinci is now credited for Singing SBL and You Could Have Told Me on the CD edition of the first album. Bill Hurd, John Richardson and Tony Thorpe sang many songs along with Alan in the seven Rubettes original albums.
Love the fact that you cover music that 'serious' musicologists would reject out of snobbery. Looking back at mid-70s chart music, most of it was as musically adept as that of rock/prog bands of the era. Always liked Rubettes, although we did make silly jokes like "What do they rub?" when they appeared on TotP or Supersonic!
Thank you very, very much for this analysis Fil very interesting. 🎶🎸
I love this song! Cheers for the upload and explanation. ❤
On my brothers music explosion 1974 LP loved this song great memories
Very interesting and super optical proof! Congratulation and for me as a big Rubettes Fan since the beginning (this song was my first own bought single record and influenced completely my own music from the first moment on) a stunning information. Although I sometimes read, that Alan can do this song too and I also work in my studio with these programms, I never have thought to see a comparation for this song showing so clearly, that Alan really also sang his own version of 'Sugar Baby Love'! But: Here is the proof clearly visible and as You say: These machines never lie! Thank You for this great work and expirience and also thanks to my brother Kurt for recognizing and sendig this video to me.
As for me, I have and heard also very often other songs of Paul Da Vince like 'Your Baby Ain't Your Baby Anymore', 'If You Get Hurt' and a newer electronic release of 'Sugar Baby Love' from 1985 and if You compare these recordings with some songs of the Rubettes, where Alan Williams is singing, it is not that hard anymore to hear the difference between the 'Sugar Baby Love' versions in the seventies. Paul is a bit sharper and present, where Alan is more smooth as he is also in the following single 'Tonight', that clearly does not sound wether in the low parts nor in the high pitch parts like Paul did in 'Sugar Baby Love'.
Once more: Really great video and research - and all the best from Austria ;).
Perfeito
Studio musicians and singers. Not Alan. He can't hit the high notes.
@@wesleycook7687well Wings of Pegasus man just said he can….just not quite as good as da Vinci!
@@rubybettes5972 The Wings Of Pegasus guy was just comparing the pitch. He used the materials given to him. He knew that one was DaVinci but just assumed it was Alan on the other one. Paul said it was taped by Polydor studios using session musicians and singers. Alan sang everything but the high notes.
On TOTP at that time the artists/bands were not meant to mime to the record. If they were going to mime then they were meant to record a version at the BBC earlier in the day. This did not always happen! I have heard tales of a certain band taking in a tape of the record and mucking about in the studio for a bit and using the original tape anyway (this is in an autobiography written by the drummer!).
For anyone who's interested in hearing more of the story of having to rerecord Sugar Baby Love in an hour-and-a-half for TOTP, Tone spoke about it in this interview a few years ago.
czcams.com/video/1_p2b83A2fU/video.html
The story starts at 9:40, but there's loads of relevant context from 4:22.
Oh Em Gee~Fil, you just transported me back to 4th form!😂
Eu não sei porque tanta polêmica de algo que acontece a 50 anos atrás se esse senhor desconhecido chamado Paulo da Vince gravou a primeira versão de SBL muito bem com certeza ganhou o que lhe pertencia em dividendos , agora quanto a glória pertence a Alan Williams afinal foi quem trabalhou para a música ser divulgada e ser o sucesso que foi e aínda é então gente chega blá blá blá Alan é o sucesso e ponto final,
Liz Hill? Must be a pseudonym for Alan Williams
It is. He's on here saying that he made Sugar Baby Love a hit and Paul's version would have flopped. The only thing is Alan Williams mimed the DaVinci version in April 74 and used studio musicians and singers on the Christmas show. The April TOPS show is the one that should have been anaylized, not December. BBC probably still has a tape of it but they wouldn't release it for Wings Of Pegasus to compare it to Paul DaVinci. One thing is certain.: If Alan actually sings Sugar Baby Love, why are all the clips from 1974 onwards using Paul's voice? It wasn't until 1984 that Alan screeched through a live version in Germany. The host joins in forcing Alan to sing live. It's on U Tube. It's terrible. Paul's version had already charted before the Rubettes were even formed. Polydor Records threw a band together and used Paul's voice on TOPS in April. Alan couldn't sing it so Paul's version was blatantly used by Williams but his story and Paul's story are totally different.
So it seems it was sung live but more generally TotP went through a period of insisting that the song was re-recorded for the programme, something to do with the music unions. If lead singers changed, it would not surprise me that the new singer had sung it.
PS. In the 44 years later version, it sounds as if it’s taken down a major second. Still stratospherically high, though.
This is sooooo interesting. I grew up with Rubettes. Love them. And I did notice a difference in tracks years ago but could never pinpoint it. How fascinating is this. ❤
Love it. Thankyou.
Subscribed.
Thanks!
pal da vinci sings the fallcett ton not allan wilsson remember that ..petan sweden
In effect, therefore, the BBC broadcast a 'cover' of the recording available in the shops. I think that was 'a bit sneaky'!
Wow…this is a terrific story and a great analysis. Quite good.