Had one of these in my old 3.6L Dodge Avenger with 2 optima yellow caps. I jumped everything from pick up trucks to diesel box trucks with that set up. One time I saw a duramax pickup trying to jump his buddy. I ended up jumping him. The look was priceless.
Back when you did the Six Gun 7.3 I was using Mecmen Alternator for older Brush trucks. At the time Most Volunteer fire departments were using pickups trucks with skid units. The halogen light bars, strobes, wig wags, sirens and other halogen lights were frying Batteries and Alternators. Between your Six Gun and Mecmen I was looking like the Firefighting hero mechanic too. Thank you Gale.
Awesome alternators ...most car audio guys use these some even use up to 5.. just a tip use "OFC" wire rather than "cca" and the higher quality car audio wire is super soft and flexible even when using 00 wire
@Wikkitt Klown the maintenance for CCA is much higher, in almost everyone's experience. It corrodes at a much higher rate and I've seen countless fuse blocks and cables melted due to corrosion and increased resistance.
@@mitchellroberts7954 THIS. CCA is the most idiotic thing you can buy for car audio, if you are unlucky, you can even burn your car down with it. And if that happens, your insurance (at least in Germany) wont pay you anything, because using CCA with normal terminals meant for OFC isn't allowed. (which is mind boggling, because most wire kits you get here use CCA...)
Most car audio guys need more idle amperage output than high rpm amperage output... cuz most demo the system vehicle on, in park.. Also most use lithium, depending on the system some can even go full tilt w/ just the lithium , engine off.
Mr. Banks, Consider using fine strand welding leads v/s the (0) electric cable. More conductors and less resistance. Don't forget you proper sized fuse.
A couple things, the decrease in diameter gives higher resistance per strand, so the gains if any are minimal. Second, because the strands are not isolated they function closer to a single conductor then to parallel resistors.
Welding cable is less stranded and typically pure copper, which means poor flexibility and no corrosion resistance as opposed to tinned ofc. Only use welding cable in an auto installation if you need insane power (multiple alts, many batteries). Otherwise, you WILL need to eventually replace all the cables due to corrosion at some point if the vehicle is used with any regularity in an environment where it rains or is humid. LOTS of people make the mistake of using welding cable in auto installations, i made a full time job at one point just ripping all of their welding cable out and replacing it with marine grade UL listed tinned 1/0-4/0 ofc.
Un Listed do not use welding cables in automotive applications because they aren’t rated for gas and oil. If you live in the snow belt go look around scrap yards, people often use them for powering plows, and it’s not rare for the cables to fail due to petroleum exposure and the trucks to burn to the ground.
@@rydplrs71 it's been a while since I've even seen wire rated for that kind of duty that doesn't at least have a good enough jacket to resist oil and gas tbh. Though, all the plows here are personally owned and operated. I completely believe a government funded plow would use the most no name junk wire available. Less money into equipment means more for the boss.
Awesome video as always!! I run a 370 amp 6G 6 phase hairpin alt on my 99 Crown Vic Interceptor. Also running a 1.9 inch overdrive alt pulley. All 0 gauge high strand OFC copper cables. Big 4 wire upgrade also. And yes, part of the Big 4 wire upgrade includes a 0 gauge cable from battery NEG to the alt case. Because, the true ground is the alt case. Great stuff Mr. Banks!!
Technical comments. FYI, 6 phase is 3 phase with each phase center tapped. This does permit using 12 diodes with current distribution in a full wave bridge rectifier. It is wired similar to a Y alternator with the centers of each winding connected together and floating instead of just one end tied together in a traditional Y. Each phase is 120 degrees apart for the prime side of each winding and the 180 degree compliments of each phase connects to the 2nd set of 6 diodes. This configuration is common in welders and other high amp DC supplies to reduce ripple. Primary is 3 phase. By technical definition, this is actually 3 phase with complements. This requires no special alteration of the field. The big advantage is more diodes to share high current and lower ripple voltage.
I love the fact that it is wired for one wire out of the box. Looks like this would be a good swap for older farm equipment that uses electrical accessories on the implements.
Gale, Thank you for explaining certain concepts, valuable for the masses that needs more amperage. GM even produce a coolant cooled dual stator alternator for a number of years. The alternator supplies the amps required for all the accessories including engine operation, but a rear steering system by itself can use a lot of current to turn those large axle loads. I started using voltage about 45 years ago while working on EFI vehicles with way less demands. While running, and the circuit is on, in a series circuit where the device uses the available voltage. This make fast, accurate and easy for a tech to identify area of higher resistance which is the root cause of a liquid loss of voltage, resulting in lower current. Undersized wires, bad switch, connectors terminal, fuse holder or the device itself can be quickly identified. With a complete system accounting for every amp, every while under full load is an excellent way of finding total amperage requirements plus having 20% extra is perfect. It is very smart to have a ground lug on the alternators frame as ground is created there, as most everyone thinks it is just positive amperage. Although, as posted below by “Dieselman” eluded to “Oxygen Free Copper” wire, is has a little less resistance per foot and the insulation makes it more flexible, but this is represented in the price. Just follow published charts for amperage over length, as they proper use the cross-section of copper stands bundled together, and leave some wiggle room as well. Thanks for explaining a great deal of good information. Get a good digital multimeter and a good amp-clamp, then learn to use them! ASE Master Tech since 78 - Retired.
Please for the love of God, connect that blue sense wire to the battery where it's suppose to connect, don't leave it on the charging stud. I wish Alt builders would really break their habit of putting it on the stud.
Gale mentioned copper clad aluminum (CCA) wire. I use 1/0 tinned oxygen-free copper (OFC) in my truck. OFC is heavier and costs more but it carries more current than CCA for a given wire size and length. I suppose that it may be overkill for how I use it but it is less resistant to current flow and offers additional safety (in theory anyway).
So freaking awesome. Absolutely the best CZcams channel now. The different topics and products on display are epic. The graphics and explanation are on point. Thank you amsoil and thank you folks at banks behind the scenes. That old guy is cool too...
@@KENARDO That's what I was thinking, I didn't want to make fun of it because I'm sure I'll have them as well. I'm surprised he can't afford the ones that don't come out.
Probably requires a lot of belt tension to not slip, Check all related bearings often...including crank end bearing. If noise not a problem, consider a toothed belt (timing).
That was my first thought. Dual alternators make more sense at that point. Its not like there is a room problem and that will spread the load out as well as spread any heat generated out. Plow trucks have been using duals forever so its a proven system.
I ran a 270amp Mechman alternator in my car audio grand prix for many years with no issues. Put out way more than advertised power. Pressure washed the engine bay all the time without covering it too.
i threw a 300amp alternator into my old civic and modded the idle control to have a toggleable high idle (2000-2100 rpm) and boy oh boy was that great. sadly the engine died due to unrelated problems. still got the alternator
Alernayer no, alTernaTor, yup - well, slightly smaller ones... Joshing aside, a very well presented explanation - I've been trying for decades to explain drive ratios, peak rpm, output curves and that they only put out what is required to maintain the set voltage, etc, but you covered it all very nicely - even made reference to the guage wiring required for the output AND ground - I've seen more than a couple of grounds for insulated (NVH) alternators that got hot enough to melt their insulation! Hhave you considered a 'Delta' wiring arangement - I've used it before, you have the heavy guage from the alternator to the battery, from the battery to the heavy draw intem(s), AND directly from the alternator to the heavy draw items. Doing that I've been able to get it down to a 0.1V drop in some instances.
Although I don't share a lot of commenters enthusiasm for oxygen free copper I would not want to use copper clad aluminium. Nevertheless a very interesting video as always.
Loved the video the belt load calculation would have been cool. Also cover battery sensing vs this type. Aluminum Anodizing makes it non conducive so that’s why they need ground wire. Once used super caps to meet needs for temporary loads. Are the steering motors not shutting off when they hit limit ie full turn
Very informative video and I love this thing'! I wanted to purchase one of these, but when I looked at the application chart, it shows incompatibility with a gas-powered 7.0/427 N/A build, which I find puzzling. I plan to call them to sort this out.
The issue with those is they're not built for delicate systems, so the diodes on the output have avalanche principals and use round wire windings, making them very big and heavy vs this flatwound aluminum case alt is a fraction of the weight/size
CCA Wire is a big no no and Mechman would never recommend anything other than OFC or Welding copper cable if on a tight budget. $600 alternator, don’t cheap out on wire, it’s too important, do it right the first time. 2/0 Flex a prene welding cable is 2.30 a ft I believe vs most car audio aOFC being around $4-5 per foot. That will fit the ring terminals perfectly that are supplied with the mechman alt.
If you isolate the ECU with a supercapacitor and inductor you will never have a problem with power dropouts during the peak current flow from the alternator. Ground loops, will remain a problem. Of course the negative terminal makes sense for high reliability.
I've never seen nor heard of a 300+ amp alternator period. Didn't know they made them that hot, nor did I know there was a need for them unless you have some crazy stereo system. Interesting!
Yep, and they're cheaper than you'd expect given the specialization. A good amount are made in the USA as well! Good brands to look at are mechman, DC power, and singer.
@@AlexanderJuholaJones because he's super shady. He says he has the lowest prices and if you find a lower price he'll match it. Well I found a lower price and he wouldn't match it.
Just a thought, Maybe a second battery or Super Cap to run the electronics on the truck ? Would not need to be very large, just isolated from the starting and steering loads. I've setup systems like this before. It really solves a lot of problems.
It's hilarious, because all mechman does is make new frames and smaller pulleys for high output Denso and Bosch alternators, but they don't come up with the design. The billet anodized frames do look better than the cast factory ones. You're really just paying more for a remanufactured alternator with a pretty frame. Also, it showed them soldering the stator lead connections, these were originally welded not soldered for a reason, so when that alternator gets up to the solder melting temp it's gonna stop making output.
I'm more interested in the phasing on the alternator, but you didn't go into detail on it.... Not sure what you mean by "not intuitive" on the phasing. There's really only a few things to look at.. It could be a 6-phase alternator where 3 phases are in phase with the other 3 (this would just be the manufacturer then spreading heat over more diodes, but balancing that load across them might be challenging).. Or more likely, it's a normal 6 phase winding where each phase is separated by 60 degrees rather than the 120 degree separation in normal 3-phase power. Of course, if you play with the rotor poles vs stator poles, you can also aim for a more BLDC-like back-emf with trapezoidal waveforms if that's your schtick. Don't just tell us something and not go into detail! What do you think us nerds are here for? ;)
Found this a car sound forum: "A standard alternator is generally 3 phase. This means that there are three “legs” of the stator that fire in succession as the alternator spins, A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C producing alternating current. 6 phase alternators have two 3 phase stators inside the alternator that are slightly out of phase of one another. The two stators fire in succession like this: A-a-B-b-C-c (the second stator is in lower case) Because they are slightly out of phase with one another, there is a cancellation of electromagnetic harmonics that makes the alternator run more smoothly and more efficiently. This allows for cooler operation, more output from a smaller overall housing, and MUCH better durability. The rectifiers turns the AC current coming out of the stator into DC current. DC current is what is used in an automobile. By passing trough the diodes, half of the AC current is burned off in the form of heat as it is “rectified” into DC current. That heat is what eventually kills alternators. By having (2) rectifier plates, there is much more surface area to dissipate the heat. This is especially important in a high output alternator- as the more amperage the alternator makes, the more heat is generated. Also, by having (12) or (16) diodes (depending on which 6 phase alternator you are talking about) instead of just (6) or (8) diodes in a 3 phase alternator, the heat and electrical load can be distributed more evenly throughout the rear of the alternator housing. Hope that info is useful. Matthew Young (865)522-6166 ext 204 mlogan@mechman.com"
What are us engineers going to do without all the nitty gritty details. That was like promising icecream to a kid, we're not going to let you forget that you mentioned it. ;)
Probably 2-3 ph Delta wound winding's offset 60 Deg. This makes sense to me. It's like 2 185 A alternators in parallel. I doubt these are Wye wound. Efficiency comes from lower losses in the winding's, rectifiers and the type of metal lamination's used in the stator. In the video, when they were assembling an alternator, The winding's are are squared off to minimize the wire length and fully potted to improve cooling. I'm sure there's a lot more voodoo involved in the design.....
@@breakthastatic Awesome information, and is about what I figured, but I am now wondering why they wouldn't use a bridge rectifier and not "burn off" half of the power output. With a double 3 phase system that really would pack the windings in tight and really even out the pulses. That still has to build up massive amounts of heat when running at full power. Awesome design.
Ha ha epic comment. I’m going to click on your name now and i hope you have posted educational videos on a topic you seem knowledgeable on. If no video... get you ass to work lol Hey buddy not one video on the topic!!! Truly no excuse in this day and age. Start somewhere. You would be surprised how many people want to hear what you have to say.
the same spec can be found in an alternative alternator if you can find the model you want from mechman guys "its a VELEO 11358" unit that comes stock in bmw e70 e.t.c or the bigger unit that comes in the M50d the small unit does 230amp idle and 370 at rev haven't tested the big unit's peak new equipment need to be built for that seems like over 400 amps (make my load catch fire) these unit are used in other German cars to with all different types of mounts keep in mind the oem BMW version uses LIN bus for control (BMW x5 alternators are cheap & everywhere !) not E53 versions ! must be newer e70 & onwards
hi, I don't understand . . . if the regulator is putting out only the required amps from the alternator, why is the 500 amp alternator drawing more hp than the 370 amp alternator for the same load? I understood he said the 500 amp alternator requires more power per amp than the 370 amp alternator. Did I misunderstand? Also he talks about these alternators spinning at 6000 rpm. But my heavy truck redlines at 3800 rpm but runs best at about half that rpm. What do I need so these are capable of producing full power at 2000 rpm? Much smaller pulley - what size? Thank you.
Now the question is...do you crimp those lugs with the 0 or 00 cables or solder them or crimp and solder? If they should be crimped, what crimp tool is best ?
I am sure this has been explored but have the teams considered running a different hydraulic pump to allow the engine driven hydraulic pump to operate both the front and rear steer?
so my diesel will need a huge as pulley? idle 500-800 and 2300 redline. i'm never going to need the max output while at redline, i'm going to need it at high idle, say 1200 rpm
you should look at Leece Neville Alternators the fire equipment industry has been using them for decades and produce well over 500 amp alternators and lower as well they last through the abuse of fire equipment
You may be talking about a brushless alternator also. Much larger and i doubt they have the same graph or performance characteristics. They work great for years but are not seeing this type of use. But let’s hear some info that you may have.
Had one of these in my old 3.6L Dodge Avenger with 2 optima yellow caps. I jumped everything from pick up trucks to diesel box trucks with that set up. One time I saw a duramax pickup trying to jump his buddy. I ended up jumping him. The look was priceless.
Back when you did the Six Gun 7.3 I was using Mecmen Alternator for older Brush trucks. At the time Most Volunteer fire departments were using pickups trucks with skid units. The halogen light bars, strobes, wig wags, sirens and other halogen lights were frying Batteries and Alternators. Between your Six Gun and Mecmen I was looking like the Firefighting hero mechanic too. Thank you Gale.
This guy explains all the questions I have. Without even asking. 👍
Thank god for Gale Banks.
Awesome alternators ...most car audio guys use these some even use up to 5.. just a tip use "OFC" wire rather than "cca" and the higher quality car audio wire is super soft and flexible even when using 00 wire
CCA is not even a Option lol OFC ftw
@Wikkitt Klown the maintenance for CCA is much higher, in almost everyone's experience. It corrodes at a much higher rate and I've seen countless fuse blocks and cables melted due to corrosion and increased resistance.
@@mitchellroberts7954 THIS. CCA is the most idiotic thing you can buy for car audio, if you are unlucky, you can even burn your car down with it.
And if that happens, your insurance (at least in Germany) wont pay you anything, because using CCA with normal terminals meant for OFC isn't allowed. (which is mind boggling, because most wire kits you get here use CCA...)
Most car audio guys need more idle amperage output than high rpm amperage output... cuz most demo the system vehicle on, in park.. Also most use lithium, depending on the system some can even go full tilt w/ just the lithium , engine off.
The voltage loss over the run on CCA wire is much higher than copper. Losing voltage, creating heating thus reducing output.
I'm just glad you're still pumping out content during this pandemic!
@Wikkitt Klown are you still alive?
“Plandemic “
Scamdemic
Mr. Banks, Consider using fine strand welding leads v/s the (0) electric cable. More conductors and less resistance. Don't forget you proper sized fuse.
What is the downside? There has to be a trade off please explain
A couple things, the decrease in diameter gives higher resistance per strand, so the gains if any are minimal. Second, because the strands are not isolated they function closer to a single conductor then to parallel resistors.
Welding cable is less stranded and typically pure copper, which means poor flexibility and no corrosion resistance as opposed to tinned ofc. Only use welding cable in an auto installation if you need insane power (multiple alts, many batteries). Otherwise, you WILL need to eventually replace all the cables due to corrosion at some point if the vehicle is used with any regularity in an environment where it rains or is humid.
LOTS of people make the mistake of using welding cable in auto installations, i made a full time job at one point just ripping all of their welding cable out and replacing it with marine grade UL listed tinned 1/0-4/0 ofc.
Un Listed do not use welding cables in automotive applications because they aren’t rated for gas and oil. If you live in the snow belt go look around scrap yards, people often use them for powering plows, and it’s not rare for the cables to fail due to petroleum exposure and the trucks to burn to the ground.
@@rydplrs71 it's been a while since I've even seen wire rated for that kind of duty that doesn't at least have a good enough jacket to resist oil and gas tbh. Though, all the plows here are personally owned and operated. I completely believe a government funded plow would use the most no name junk wire available. Less money into equipment means more for the boss.
Your comment section is on point also. Mostly positive guys happy to digest the info. And many people adding more info.
Awesome video as always!! I run a 370 amp 6G 6 phase hairpin alt on my 99 Crown Vic Interceptor. Also running a 1.9 inch overdrive alt pulley. All 0 gauge high strand OFC copper cables.
Big 4 wire upgrade also. And yes, part of the Big 4 wire upgrade includes a 0 gauge cable from battery NEG to the alt case. Because, the true ground is the alt case. Great stuff Mr. Banks!!
Technical comments. FYI, 6 phase is 3 phase with each phase center tapped. This does permit using 12 diodes with current distribution in a full wave bridge rectifier. It is wired similar to a Y alternator with the centers of each winding connected together and floating instead of just one end tied together in a traditional Y. Each phase is 120 degrees apart for the prime side of each winding and the 180 degree compliments of each phase connects to the 2nd set of 6 diodes. This configuration is common in welders and other high amp DC supplies to reduce ripple. Primary is 3 phase. By technical definition, this is actually 3 phase with complements. This requires no special alteration of the field. The big advantage is more diodes to share high current and lower ripple voltage.
I love the fact that it is wired for one wire out of the box. Looks like this would be a good swap for older farm equipment that uses electrical accessories on the implements.
Gale, Thank you for explaining certain concepts, valuable for the masses that needs more amperage. GM even produce a coolant cooled dual stator alternator for a number of years. The alternator supplies the amps required for all the accessories including engine operation, but a rear steering system by itself can use a lot of current to turn those large axle loads. I started using voltage about 45 years ago while working on EFI vehicles with way less demands. While running, and the circuit is on, in a series circuit where the device uses the available voltage. This make fast, accurate and easy for a tech to identify area of higher resistance which is the root cause of a liquid loss of voltage, resulting in lower current. Undersized wires, bad switch, connectors terminal, fuse holder or the device itself can be quickly identified. With a complete system accounting for every amp, every while under full load is an excellent way of finding total amperage requirements plus having 20% extra is perfect. It is very smart to have a ground lug on the alternators frame as ground is created there, as most everyone thinks it is just positive amperage. Although, as posted below by “Dieselman” eluded to “Oxygen Free Copper” wire, is has a little less resistance per foot and the insulation makes it more flexible, but this is represented in the price. Just follow published charts for amperage over length, as they proper use the cross-section of copper stands bundled together, and leave some wiggle room as well. Thanks for explaining a great deal of good information. Get a good digital multimeter and a good amp-clamp, then learn to use them! ASE Master Tech since 78 - Retired.
What do you mean, "Is going to be a great project"? It already is! Keep them coming!
Please for the love of God, connect that blue sense wire to the battery where it's suppose to connect, don't leave it on the charging stud. I wish Alt builders would really break their habit of putting it on the stud.
Best alternators period! Nice craftsmanship too.
Gale mentioned copper clad aluminum (CCA) wire. I use 1/0 tinned oxygen-free copper (OFC) in my truck. OFC is heavier and costs more but it carries more current than CCA for a given wire size and length. I suppose that it may be overkill for how I use it but it is less resistant to current flow and offers additional safety (in theory anyway).
I didn't know what CCA stood for. Thanks for the info! I'll look into using OFC next time around, now that I know. Top tip!
So freaking awesome. Absolutely the best CZcams channel now. The different topics and products on display are epic. The graphics and explanation are on point. Thank you amsoil and thank you folks at banks behind the scenes. That old guy is cool too...
"Aldernader"
Dentures are a cruel mistress
@@KENARDO That's what I was thinking, I didn't want to make fun of it because I'm sure I'll have them as well. I'm surprised he can't afford the ones that don't come out.
370 amps it become an Arnoldator.
Probably requires a lot of belt tension to not slip, Check all related bearings often...including crank end bearing. If noise not a problem, consider a toothed belt (timing).
That was my first thought. Dual alternators make more sense at that point. Its not like there is a room problem and that will spread the load out as well as spread any heat generated out. Plow trucks have been using duals forever so its a proven system.
The box is stuff of legend, YOU SIR ARE LEGENDARY !!!
It’s so nice to see some one get fired up by an alternator 😂
🤣👍👍👍
What is the duty cycle on 370 amps? Lots of heat to manage
Low voltage may cause devices to also pull more amperage, possibly causing more heat or damage to sensitive components.
I didn't expect to see your comment! The man himself!!
@@RamRam-wb9nw I watch Banks' videos a lot, it's so interesting to hear how Gale thinks.
I ran a 270amp Mechman alternator in my car audio grand prix for many years with no issues. Put out way more than advertised power. Pressure washed the engine bay all the time without covering it too.
I designed that knife! Glad to see you using it!
i threw a 300amp alternator into my old civic and modded the idle control to have a toggleable high idle (2000-2100 rpm) and boy oh boy was that great. sadly the engine died due to unrelated problems. still got the alternator
These are the best alternators out there with high power!!
Oh jeez they do a 400A version too, wow. I had no idea that kind of output was available. Sheesh!
500a :)
@@THELIFEOFPRICE JP! I got mine from you last black Friday. Glad I listened to you on this one!
The rated output on a good alternator is also very underrated, almost in some cases by up to 50a.
@@THELIFEOFPRICE I knew you'd be here
Wish my kids worked for you Gail. You would be a great boss and teacher
I wish Gail would hand feed my children..
It is the best alternator I have ever owned. Truly a beast.
Thank god for car audio guys
gota love gales comments quote thats buzzin the snout out of one of these things
Alernayer no, alTernaTor, yup - well, slightly smaller ones...
Joshing aside, a very well presented explanation - I've been trying for decades to explain drive ratios, peak rpm, output curves and that they only put out what is required to maintain the set voltage, etc, but you covered it all very nicely - even made reference to the guage wiring required for the output AND ground - I've seen more than a couple of grounds for insulated (NVH) alternators that got hot enough to melt their insulation!
Hhave you considered a 'Delta' wiring arangement - I've used it before, you have the heavy guage from the alternator to the battery, from the battery to the heavy draw intem(s), AND directly from the alternator to the heavy draw items. Doing that I've been able to get it down to a 0.1V drop in some instances.
Love these alts run one on my ram and one on my roach beast mode.
Nothing on that gauge cluster showed voltage.
I got a 380 single on my ram 2500 and i can’t drain my semi batteries on it, high drain power tools? No problem. Love the thing.
You need to do the big three upgrade with your wiring and only use OFC wire.
Rumor has it the Banks sponsored Monster truck will have a body shaped to look like Gale Banks head.. lol
Now that would be funny.
Although I don't share a lot of commenters enthusiasm for oxygen free copper I would not want to use copper clad aluminium. Nevertheless a very interesting video as always.
mr legend of the turbo world,the chuck yeagher of the automotive world
One of the sharpest mechanic/engineers
Both my old school cars have mechman alts and I’ve never had an issue after 6 and 10 yrs of usage the best hands down
So..... you could run an arc welder off that? CRAZY.
The output on a good 370a Alt is good for 5500w, the batteries are where the rubber meets the road though.
Sure could. Voltage is a little low though
Welcome to the car audio world.
Loved the video the belt load calculation would have been cool. Also cover battery sensing vs this type. Aluminum Anodizing makes it non conducive so that’s why they need ground wire. Once used super caps to meet needs for temporary loads. Are the steering motors not shutting off when they hit limit ie full turn
Very informative video and I love this thing'! I wanted to purchase one of these, but when I looked at the application chart, it shows incompatibility with a gas-powered 7.0/427 N/A build, which I find puzzling. I plan to call them to sort this out.
CE Niehoff makes a line of alternators for military and transit coaches. I'm familiar with their transit applications. 280 -450 amps.
The issue with those is they're not built for delicate systems, so the diodes on the output have avalanche principals and use round wire windings, making them very big and heavy vs this flatwound aluminum case alt is a fraction of the weight/size
CCA Wire is a big no no and Mechman would never recommend anything other than OFC or Welding copper cable if on a tight budget. $600 alternator, don’t cheap out on wire, it’s too important, do it right the first time.
2/0 Flex a prene welding cable is 2.30 a ft I believe vs most car audio aOFC being around $4-5 per foot. That will fit the ring terminals perfectly that are supplied with the mechman alt.
LOVE this. Thanks so MUCH.
GOD BLESS Y'ALL.
Same to you!
If you isolate the ECU with a supercapacitor and inductor you will never have a problem with power dropouts during the peak current flow from the alternator. Ground loops, will remain a problem. Of course the negative terminal makes sense for high reliability.
I've never seen nor heard of a 300+ amp alternator period. Didn't know they made them that hot, nor did I know there was a need for them unless you have some crazy stereo system. Interesting!
Yep, and they're cheaper than you'd expect given the specialization. A good amount are made in the USA as well! Good brands to look at are mechman, DC power, and singer.
You can get mechman alts from down4sound free shipping!!
I wouldn't buy anything from JP even if he was the last dealer on earth.
@@Had22s why?
@@AlexanderJuholaJones because he's super shady. He says he has the lowest prices and if you find a lower price he'll match it. Well I found a lower price and he wouldn't match it.
@@Had22s interesting! I shall steer clear of him if he's being like that.
Never had any issues with d4s over the years too each their own though
Individual alternator ground cable..that's new and interesting, will apply to be add from know😀. Thank you🥰
Just a thought, Maybe a second battery or Super Cap to run the electronics on the truck ?
Would not need to be very large, just isolated from the starting and steering loads.
I've setup systems like this before. It really solves a lot of problems.
a couple large caps and a monster cranking battery would keep the voltage up.
It's hilarious, because all mechman does is make new frames and smaller pulleys for high output Denso and Bosch alternators, but they don't come up with the design. The billet anodized frames do look better than the cast factory ones. You're really just paying more for a remanufactured alternator with a pretty frame. Also, it showed them soldering the stator lead connections, these were originally welded not soldered for a reason, so when that alternator gets up to the solder melting temp it's gonna stop making output.
Thats an impressive aldernader
Question?
What's the failure mode of this 1?
I also have one of there alternators and it's still in there, there expensive but so far so good... voltage is constantly 14
That wire chart is for coarse stranded wire. You’ll use DLO or some other fine stranded conductor for that because of vibration.
You should look into investing a good lithium lifepo4 battery to go along with that aldernador 😛
Banks the Diesel Santa Claus. With his high performance slicer.
Haha... Six gun with a side of salad shooter! Cooling fan on alternator.
I'm more interested in the phasing on the alternator, but you didn't go into detail on it.... Not sure what you mean by "not intuitive" on the phasing. There's really only a few things to look at.. It could be a 6-phase alternator where 3 phases are in phase with the other 3 (this would just be the manufacturer then spreading heat over more diodes, but balancing that load across them might be challenging).. Or more likely, it's a normal 6 phase winding where each phase is separated by 60 degrees rather than the 120 degree separation in normal 3-phase power. Of course, if you play with the rotor poles vs stator poles, you can also aim for a more BLDC-like back-emf with trapezoidal waveforms if that's your schtick.
Don't just tell us something and not go into detail! What do you think us nerds are here for? ;)
Found this a car sound forum:
"A standard alternator is generally 3 phase. This means that there are three “legs” of the stator that fire in succession as the alternator spins, A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C producing alternating current.
6 phase alternators have two 3 phase stators inside the alternator that are slightly out of phase of one another. The two stators fire in succession like this: A-a-B-b-C-c (the second stator is in lower case) Because they are slightly out of phase with one another, there is a cancellation of electromagnetic harmonics that makes the alternator run more smoothly and more efficiently. This allows for cooler operation, more output from a smaller overall housing, and MUCH better durability.
The rectifiers turns the AC current coming out of the stator into DC current. DC current is what is used in an automobile. By passing trough the diodes, half of the AC current is burned off in the form of heat as it is “rectified” into DC current. That heat is what eventually kills alternators. By having (2) rectifier plates, there is much more surface area to dissipate the heat. This is especially important in a high output alternator- as the more amperage the alternator makes, the more heat is generated. Also, by having (12) or (16) diodes (depending on which 6 phase alternator you are talking about) instead of just (6) or (8) diodes in a 3 phase alternator, the heat and electrical load can be distributed more evenly throughout the rear of the alternator housing.
Hope that info is useful.
Matthew Young
(865)522-6166 ext 204
mlogan@mechman.com"
What are us engineers going to do without all the nitty gritty details. That was like promising icecream to a kid, we're not going to let you forget that you mentioned it. ;)
Probably 2-3 ph Delta wound winding's offset 60 Deg. This makes sense to me. It's like 2 185 A alternators in parallel.
I doubt these are Wye wound.
Efficiency comes from lower losses in the winding's, rectifiers and the type of metal lamination's used in the stator.
In the video, when they were assembling an alternator, The winding's are are squared off to minimize the wire length and fully potted to improve cooling.
I'm sure there's a lot more voodoo involved in the design.....
@@breakthastatic
Awesome information, and is about what I figured, but I am now wondering why they wouldn't use a bridge rectifier and not "burn off" half of the power output. With a double 3 phase system that really would pack the windings in tight and really even out the pulses. That still has to build up massive amounts of heat when running at full power. Awesome design.
Ha ha epic comment. I’m going to click on your name now and i hope you have posted educational videos on a topic you seem knowledgeable on. If no video... get you ass to work lol
Hey buddy not one video on the topic!!! Truly no excuse in this day and age. Start somewhere. You would be surprised how many people want to hear what you have to say.
These alternators are popular in car audio
Carlos definitely
This thing could power a house or two off of a 1200CC diesel at 1600 rpm!.
Better than any generator on the market today!
370 amps at 12 volts is only 37 amps at 120 volts. The electrical service at my house is 200 amps.
Looking forward to the update us on how she works.
The number one upgrade for high wattage car audio...
Why not do a big capacitor?
the same spec can be found in an alternative alternator if you can find the model you want from mechman guys
"its a VELEO 11358" unit that comes stock in bmw e70 e.t.c or the bigger unit that comes in the M50d
the small unit does 230amp idle and 370 at rev haven't tested the big unit's peak new equipment need to be built for that
seems like over 400 amps (make my load catch fire)
these unit are used in other German cars to with all different types of mounts
keep in mind the oem BMW version uses LIN bus for control
(BMW x5 alternators are cheap & everywhere !) not E53 versions ! must be newer e70 & onwards
why do u need a high amperage alternator?
I got some welding lead you can use,,,
will you do a video on what starter you will use on this project? I've enjoyed getting to know the other products you are showing us
hi, I don't understand . . . if the regulator is putting out only the required amps from the alternator, why is the 500 amp alternator drawing more hp than the 370 amp alternator for the same load? I understood he said the 500 amp alternator requires more power per amp than the 370 amp alternator. Did I misunderstand?
Also he talks about these alternators spinning at 6000 rpm. But my heavy truck redlines at 3800 rpm but runs best at about half that rpm. What do I need so these are capable of producing full power at 2000 rpm? Much smaller pulley - what size? Thank you.
Now the question is...do you crimp those lugs with the 0 or 00 cables or solder them or crimp and solder? If they should be crimped, what crimp tool is best ?
good for ambulances
Just $599.
Downright reasonable for the custom nature of it.
I wonder if you could use one of these as a wind-power generator, connected to some big blades on a pole...
That is a Denso factory alternator stuffed into fancy billet cases. .
I'm glad he used the technical term 12 big-ass diodes.
I am sure this has been explored but have the teams considered running a different hydraulic pump to allow the engine driven hydraulic pump to operate both the front and rear steer?
How do you think Mechman compares to Tough Stuff and Power Master?
Great for monster trucks and great for multi-Kw sound systems😂😂😂
I presume these are smaller amps than the ones which we normally use? Be interesting to see the actual output on a sustained load case.
How many watts can this produce
Tim the tool man Taylor. More power arugh, arugh, arugh!!!
This (370 Amp) alternator would be really good for making an off-grid waterwheel power source. That would charge a searous battery bank.
I'm not sure I'd like to run an alternator 24/7. If you're stationary with unlimited energy why not use a permanent magnet?
Impressive Alternator 👍
I have a 2012 jet Liberty can you help
so my diesel will need a huge as pulley? idle 500-800 and 2300 redline. i'm never going to need the max output while at redline, i'm going to need it at high idle, say 1200 rpm
What is it needed for?
Need one of those for sure
Great content!...Thx Gale! 😉👌👍
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.
you should look at Leece Neville Alternators the fire equipment industry has been using them for decades and produce well over 500 amp alternators and lower as well they last through the abuse of fire equipment
You may be talking about a brushless alternator also. Much larger and i doubt they have the same graph or performance characteristics. They work great for years but are not seeing this type of use. But let’s hear some info that you may have.
I could use it to replace my 55 amp alternator
I love banks videos.
Big ass diodes! Nice ratio explanation
I whant same one for my ford f350 6.0 powerstroke please send the item # .thanks
so this Alternator does Not need liquid cooling ?
Any updates on performance please?
Very cool Gale.