Refining the Formula | Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Retrospective
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door is a game built around refining the formula rather than reinventing the wheel. It's the last true RPG in the Paper Mario series before Nintendo and Intelligent Systems began implementing new gameplay styles. Many Paper Mario fans, myself included, love it to death, but is its reputation as the best Paper Mario game deserved? Today, we examine the 2004 GameCube RPG Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door to see if it still holds up and why so many consider it a classic. #PaperMario #ThousandYearDoor #Nintendo
Special thanks to Riku-DarkHeart for helping me with the research for this video!
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TIMECODES
00:00 - INTRO
01:10 - DEVELOPMENT
04:07 - PREMISE
06:24 - GAMEPLAY
09:15 - COMBAT
12:56 - PARTNERS
18:42 - AESTHETICS
21:54 - STORY AND CHAPTERS
30:01 - PEACH AND BOWSER SECTIONS
31:36 - SIDE QUESTS
34:23 - FINAL CHAPTER
36:36 - CONCLUSION
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SOURCES / RECOMMENDED READING:
IGN: Paper Mario 2 Official (bit.ly/2NVnw4c)
NGC Magazine Issue 99: The Paper Boys
Nintendo Power Volume 184: Paper Mario Scribe Nate Bihldroff Speaks Volumes - Hry
What no one ever gets right is just the sheer joy of the world-building. With this game I just feel that this is the world in which all of my beloved characters (and myself) can believably reside in. Which is precious beyond belief.
Wow, it is crazy to think this game is 17 years old. I remember doing the Pit of 100 Trials for hours back in the day. Good times.
Yea, and for what? For being completely destroyed by bonetails because you didnt expect such an insane bossfight down there just to do it all over again
Good times :)
@@GarroshTV I remember getting down to the 90th floor and dying a bunch of times before finally beating it.
@@GarroshTV I expected a boss fight because it's common sense. I didn't expect that boss to be a dragon stronger than the final boss.
@@Jaydove2387 yea, same ❤️
i remember i was about ten years old. i forget why but the wii was down in the living room. i let my dad sell the gamecube cause we had the wii, so why not?
i made it down to the final boss. koops came through with his shell shield and saved my ass multiple times.
we won.
i feel fuzzy thinking about it. although i barely remember much lol
HATED the badge bandits though
another proud accomplishment of mine is i was like ten or nine, doing a run of the shadow queen. either i had ten hp or my only healing item was a mushroom. i forget.
i knew i would die if i didnt superguard. she was doing that one crazy attack that does 14 damage and is super hard to guard cause its like mist in the air.
...yeah i superguarded it. age ten.
maybe its dumb but im still proud lol i was good at games for my age
I can't even begin to describe the impact this game had on me. Even the original Paper Mario on N64 transformed the way I see video games and was my very first RPG, but this one just took everything wonderful about that game and amplified it. Thousand Year Door is a game that I've always held in the highest of regards, everything was just so spot-on, the battles, the writing, the humor, it's easily one of my favorite games of all time to this day! The memories of the joy I had obsessively playing through this one are irreplaceable and this game will inspire me for the rest of my life.
It’s 2023 and I’m still waiting for a Paper Luigi spinoff game featuring the companions he encountered from TTYD.
I hope we get that in this remake
TYD hit that perfect balance of fun Mario mechanics, engaging gameplay and a charming world to explore. I found that all of the subsequent games did one or two of these really well but never again all three.
Ah yes, exploring the straight lines full of enemies with super easy fight that you win by just stacking damage with jumps !
No, the game isn't perfectly balance at all !
I'm saying that but I still love the game overall but peoples are just BLIND when it come to do critic with this game.
@@Althea034 TYD is anything but straight lines. In fact, a common criticism is that there is too much wandering around and backtracking. It's definitely not perfect, I found that it had some pacing issues and some chapters outstayed their welcome. It's well balanced but it's not perfect.
@@CrowTRobot TTYD IS straight line bro, have you seen the level design of the game or are you blind ???
Like it's litteraly true that lot of the zone are straight line full of enemies and if you say the opposite you're just denying a fact !
Take Paper Mario OK for example, the level design and what you do in the zone itself are way better and way more creative and engaging overall.
It's a point of where the teams got really better at and to me one of the biggest weakness of the game.
Of course there is zone like Hooktail castle, The pirate cove that are GOOD in term of level design but those zone are too rare and the way you take to go there are really boring.
talking about the boss themes in this game and NOT talking about the doopliss theme is a crime
I was so lucky my mum didn't see the gallows at the start, or I might not have been able to enjoy this fantastic game.
The idea of gallows in Mario is interesting, considering many enemies don't have necks or float.
Oh man, I just subbed and watched the first Paper Mario retrospective. Now this bad boy dropped. What amazing timing.
Same
Just discovered your channel, and really loving your insights! I'm definitely in the "TTYD is best" camp, and hope that the series is able to circle back to this style some day.
Funny enough, my biggest point of "contention" is your assessment of Vivian as a combatant, cuz I think you're sleeping on her. Her basic attack is really versatile since it can hit almost anything, and factoring in burn damage over time, I believe it averages more HP dealt than any other basic. But Fiery Jinx is suuuuper busted, and what puts her over the edge for me
Yeah. Vivian, danger Yoshi, and Bobbery are some of the best partners in the game.
Might I suggest bug fables after you are done with the mainline games? it is a love letter to classic paper Mario while still adding its own spin to its gameplay, characters, world. heck, there is even a card game.
I second this.
Bug fables was my best indie game purchase ever. Loved paper mario as a kid and bug fables gave me that great feeling as an adult.
"vivian is weak" "the shadow queen is a battle of attrition"
my man, fiery jinx is busted and literally turns off the shadow queens hands each time.
vivian and bobbery legit do the most damage in the team, don't know how you can say she's subpar
Veil is also meant to dodge huge attacks when they've charged up (which a lot of endgame enemies and bosses do) and her in front, been a good decade but pretty sure the person in the back can still attack so you do vivian up front > dodge attack > enemy attack > Mario's turn
retrospective style videos seem to be all the rage this year and last year
but I'm certainly not going to complain if it leads to more Paper Mario love
We need some type of escapism from this harsh world. And I think making retrospective videos are the perfect type of videos to buy time until things get better. ^_^
Found you in my recommendations with the Banjo Kazooie review, my 2nd fav game of all time, now you’re doing my number 1 game of all time! Awesome timing!
It's simple just perfect. The story, combat and atmosphere are near flawless. The depth in badges and wonderfully designed worlds. Elegantly crafted party members and some of the best writing.
I love that you named the yoshi Trav Guy
I've been waiting for you to do a retrospective for TTYD and can say it was worth the wait! Found myself nodding along while enjoying the nostalgic footage, keep up the great work!
Vivian is one of the strongest partners tho and if you remember the last person in the chain for general white you can just go there and talk to them and return to the outpost
As a fan of the paper mario series; I for one would love to play "Paper Luigi and The Marvelous Compass"
Just marathoned your Paper Mario Retrospectives and finished with this one, super entertaining and I can’t wait to watch more of your stuff!
25:56-26:00 That's a dangerous sentence you know
Thanks for the TTYD content! This is well done and was an enjoyable watch.
I think Koops and Flurry are more deep than they are usually given credit for.
Koops is stuck in arrested development because he lost his dad. His whole village lives in constant fear because the threat of hooktail and they have essentially resigned to live in defeat. Cowardly and fearful. This is a terrible way to live life, but the villagers enable it. They even attack and Shame people who want to have courage. When Koops meets Mario he sees his courage and realizes this is his chance to escape the life of fear and regret he is trapped in.
Flurry is a star who is burned by the empty lifestyle of fame and fortune. She leaves the limelight because she believes it is impossible to have purpose and be fulfilled in society.
Meeting Mario she sees someone who is living with great morals and purpose and realizes that isolation from people is not noble but helping people is where fulfillment comes from. She is eager to join him with this new found since of purpose.
Also, don’t really want to get intangled in this, but Vivian is very obviously a girl. It’s part of the gag that beldam calls herself and her ugly sister lovelies, while referring to Vivian as a boy implying she is not attractive. It’s like a version of the Munsters gag where they all think the beautiful niece is the only ugly person in the family because she doesn’t look like a monster. This feels like a case of trying to take current issues and forge them into an older story. Why not just let it be what it is?
Personally loved Flurry’s story too!
As for Vivian, yes, there is a trope of picking on the “beautiful”, but I really don’t think that’s what they were going for in the source material. I respect her story, and view her as a girl, but with the understanding there was a trans element originally.
I would just like to say. Back when games were..better in my opinion compared to what we get now. (Disingenuous trash that’s released before it’s completed and usually swamped with micro transactions)
I always seem to go back to games like this one. This being one of my favorite games of all time because of how polished and genuine it was.
And it truly makes me happy to see those who make video game analysis like these. Thank you!
Your video quality is immaculate. I hope you go far, wishing you the best.
Out of all of the Paper Mario games, I would say that TTYD has the best battle system, like you claimed.
While I enjoy the newer games, even Sticker Star, they didn't handle battling very well imo.
TTYD shows how to do gimmicks right. A gimmick should supplement the experience, not replace it.
Sticker Star and Color Splash take the skeleton of the classic battle system, and cram a gimmick into it.
TTYD, on the other hand, took everything 64's system had to offer, and added onto it.
The stage gimmick is excellently woven into battles. The audience works really well and it helps make battles more fun and interesting. Stylish Moves and Super Guard are such great additions that I actually find myself struggling to enjoy PM64 due to their absence. Partner Health both adds more strategy to battles, and removes the awful injury gimmick that PM64 had.
The only flaws imo, are some of the stage gimmicks, and especially the fog. I don't think anyone enjoys the fog and it just grinds battles to a halt as you and the enemies constantly miss for a minute.
If the modern games used gimmicks as supplements, rather than replacements, I feel like the battles would be a lot more fun, and people would enjoy the games a lot more.
Edit: (in addition)
It's just a shame that TTYD lacks in level design. Most areas are just a collection of simple hallways. 64 had a pretty good grasp on level design, and I'd say that the modern games have some of the best level layouts in the series. TTYD could've benefited a lot from more interesting rooms, and less backtracking.
You should play the TTYD64 mod when it releases, it adds TTYD mechanics to PM64 and it's really cool.
I remember beating the final boss, I use Earth Tremors and my game just crash, I was so mad that I don't play the game for days.
Instead, I back to play Super Star Saga again on my Game boy Advance (waiting for that video, you won my suscribe by making this 64 and Gamecube games)
Oh damn, I definitely would've been mad about that too. And yeah, I will cover the Mario & Luigi series at some point (I don't know exactly when, though).
I think one that that makes the battle theme so unique is that it's composed to be more of a game-show idle theme. I actually really like it.
The one criticism that I have of this game compared to the first title is just that it felt a bit shorter. I suppose that's because it has alot of areas that mirror the first game's except consisting of only a few rooms instead of a whole explorable dungeon for instance. The snow area for example was just a straight line to an ice base while the one in the first game consisted of multiple towns, pathways between them and an ice palace.
I'm watching this now while I'm waiting for the remake pure gold
One of the things I had a problem with in this game compared to the first one is the reuse of some partner types. You have a Goomba that tells you information, a Koppa that picks things up for you, a Bom-omb that blows things up for you and a ghost that hides you. Yes they all vary in battles to some extent and all have more developed personalities but most of their basic overworld functions are the same. A Shy Guy could have been interesting or maybe instead of a Goomba or Koopa, you have a Para version of them. Maybe a Hammer Bro.? Mario has a lot of different enemies I would have like to see them use and this was my main criticism for this game. It's a shame we won't see a Paper Mario RPG in the future to see the cool new partners Mario could have had.
We need that Paper Luigi game.
Each location has an amazing thick atmosphere which i like even more then the actual gameplay
Man, a Paper Mario with Scribblenauts elements would be so cool.
You have been on fire lately! In fact you been on fire since say 1! I need to get around to playing these games they have such a great aesthetic.
They really do! And thanks so much dude!
The battle theme is hype! Literally love it after all these years
I have to replay this game at some point, been too long! Great vid, killin it.
Never played this one. Hopefully I'll get to someday. I know I'll really enjoy it. Looking forward to your Super Paper Mario video. Keep up the good work man!
I too have made this year The Year of Paper Mario. I finished the original Paper Mario in February, Thousand Year Door this past weekend, and I am working on Super Paper Mario right now. I have subscribed, and I will be following alongside you :)
We re-played this recently with our children (5 & 8) and loved it all over again. We’ve since replayed SPM as well and liked it more than we remembered, but it doesn’t compare. TTYD was amazing 😍
Thankfully Origami King is holding up well, Olivia is a hilarious character.
You're totally welcome, Im just glad you were able to make the video
Thanks again for helping with research! It really was the boost I needed when I was in a rut writing the script
@@CloudConnection Wholesome/100
I just commented on one of your other videos. Then saw you reviewed these games. Paper Mario TTYD might be my favorite game of all time.
Great video. Cant wait until they're all out, I love every game in this series and im especially interested in your opinions on the later games considering they're the more controversial entries
Just got into this game, I'm excited to hear your opinion about it.
I had a Gamecube and somehow skipped this one... I think at the time I wasn't willing to go any deeper than Pokemon as far as RPGs were concerned... I really wish I had given this game a chance in 2004. That was a time in my life that I could have used an escape like this. A few years ago I watched a few GameGrumps lets plays and thought it was cute, then a few weeks ago I randomly downloaded this on a dolphin emulator on my phone and was instantly hooked after the 1st battle. I recently purchased a handheld gaming cpu with the intent on emulating this and taking it with me on the go back and forth between work school and home. Im very glad I found this video and I have a great idea of what to (and in some cases what not to) look out for! You did an amazing job selling the idea that this is a game worth playing and finishing.
Top quality content! Love watching this channel grow!
I admit I seriously dont like the battle theme. Its way to cheery and bright for a main battle theme. You produce content of such quality its amazing! Thank you for a refreshing true Retrospective.
I grew up with the first Paper Mario, and needless to say I'm a lot more nostalgic with that game. However, I firmly believe TTYD is a superior game; it improved upon the first game in every way, particularly (as you mentioned here) with character development and visuals. I LOVE this game, and look forward to my next playthrough! Thanks for the upload, Cloudc0nnection.
Paper Mario games I would replay on a rainey day:
*) Paper Mario
*) The Thousand Year Door
*) Super Paper Mario (Wii)
*) Bug Fables
An interesting Retrospective to say the least. I hope you continue the series with gusto and don't get burnt out in the later titles.
100% agreed. First three paper Mario games and the spiritual successor bug fables
The game actually has a counter measure for changing clock for the lottery. You'll have to pay 500 coins get scolded and it (presumably) resets the cycle.
A timeless banger of a game! I still remember getting this for my 12th birthday
This series’ story would work SUPER well for a Saturday morning cartoon show
I'm just happy we are getting a remake on the Switch
I actually really liked the pit of 100 trials. As a kid I was too bad to beat it but when I replayed as an adult I really enjoyed it, especially past level 70 or so. Going 100 floors with only your current items and hp and mp was a lot of fun, ending with Bonetail which may have been my favorite boss fight other than the final boss
I love everything about this game
So much nostalgia with this one!
no shot you reviewed the game without having completed pit of 100 trials lol
Been looking forward to this!!
I still find it hilarious but creepy that TEC kept contriving reasons for Peach to take her clothes off.
If they ever remake this game, they need to have some sort of fast travel system because the level design is way too linear, and the game requires an excessive amount of backtracking. The one thing I can compliment the new games on is that they don't have that problem except for color splash which places all of its alternate exits right next to the main ones, requiring you to do some levels twice.
Having now watched this a couple of times, I wonder if things would flow a bit better with a shuffle to the order.
I know it’s the same as previous videos, but for some reason it felt weird to have the story synopsis at the end. I think it may just be the way my brain is wired- usually reviews give a synopsis of the story early on, and then do the rest. For whatever reason, it felt odd this time. It feels like story could have been merged with characters, and been placed in the same spot.
Still a great video, though! I’ve never play TTYD, but clearly I need to play it “any way that I can” (as SNESDrunk would say)
It seems if the bias is more leaning to gameplay over story I see why the gameplay is more focused and the story being secondary, at least that's how I feel here.
This game is really good has a first full playthrough. The biggest issues with Paper Mario Thousand Year Old Door is the annoying backtracking and the slow pacing of the game. Which is why it's harder to replay this game again. I prefer to replay Paper Mario 64 than Thousand Year Old Door. Hopefully, Nintendo does a remaster edition of Thousand Year Old Door with resolving the backtracking issues and slower pacing of this game. They should bring back the spin dash ability that Mario had in Paper Mario 64 or make him have an option to run faster. Also, have a option to skip the dialogue conversations and straight into the battles of boss fights for speed running playthroughs. I would also add in bonus secrets if you complete all of the sidequest "Troubles" of the game too.
Love this channel!
So which has worse backtracking, this or Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
New subscriber. Already loving your channel. Keep it up!
Some of the Pit of 100 Trials prizes are worth it, but it is absolutely not worth completing the pit. The last 10 levels have high damage super enemies, and the 100th level is the super boss Bonetail; a third dragon fight that's the same as the previous two but with even higher damage and ridiculous HP. And all you get for going through that is one star point (ONE!) from Bonetail and a badge that damages enemies for half of whatever damage they just dealt Mario; which is pretty useless if the Pit is the last thing you do.
Somebody needs to make a ROM Hack about Luigi’s adventure, that would be amazing! (If done right/well)
Thousand Year Door aka the one where Mario ended up with a harem
i love hearing others talking about my also personal favorite game ever, there will never be anything like this game again, the way nintendo is going with the paper mario games, i wish they’d go back to using unique character schemes and art styles instead of generic toads for NPCS, there’s so much life in this game that is overlooked compared to noawadays games
You didn't tackle the Pit of 100 Trials because you were intimidated by the thought of fighting Bonetail...I understand completely...that bastard wrecked me the first 3 times I tried.
You've never got a Poison Shroom bingo? Like never? I got one on my first playthrough during the fight with Cortez. My first playthrough!
(34:56) it's kinda unfair that Mario can't break the ultra block's maybe because the super is used for big yellow block's while the ultra hammer is used for the big & small stone block's,Mario can easily break them in Paper Mario 64 with the ultra hammer why not in PMTTYD even though they only appear like twice in TTYD but the ultra hammer still could be used to break ultra block's and maybe adding more ultra block's for stuff........I felt like I had to say that.
If I ever stream this game, I’ll definitely stream the Italian version
I’m sure you can guess why that would be the case
I never realized that TEC kept contriving reasons for Peach to get nekkid.
So what you're saying is I need to go play Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door
Yeah maybe
Excellent game, great video!
13:22 To be fair, I can't blame you because it's not immediately apparent, but MAN it really makes me cringe when you say Goombario has no personality... like, come on, dude! Half of his Tattles are dissing the target, ESPECIALLY when said targets are your other partners via Duplighost transformations... Goombario has this smartass juvenile attitude but can complain a lot under some circumstances (Use Tattle on Dry Dry Desert, EVERY SINGLE AREA has its own text!), and it sounds like it should be really obnoxious but, honestly, it's more charismatic than anything else... Goombario does admire Mario and he does want to adventure, you can call these motivations "simple" as much as you want, but they're not the ONLY defining traits Goombario has. Bombette may be my favorite character in the game, but I take no issue in admitting Goombario is the best partner as a character. Goombario also has the highest single-target damage potential, so he's better utilized against chapter bosses and midbosses (especially those with low/zero defense, which there's a handful of already).
I absolutely LOVE this game
Are you thinking of looking at RARE’s other games? Really would like your opinion on them since I enjoyed your Conker video a lot
tech to peach:
I WANNA KNOW WHAT LOVE IIIIIIIS!
Nice video. I know this game is better in many ways than 64, but I still like it better. Mostly nostalgia, but both are great.
Searching for Gen. White is when I stopped playing the game the first time. Was frustrated and decided to move on. Which means it was 5 years before I finally came back to the game and completed it! Such a shame. But enjoyed the ending…eventually.
Really? It takes like 15 minutes. Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be
Put obligatory: have you played bug fables, the spiritual successor to paper mario 2, comment here :)
Please make a video about the remake
Great video (as always!)
Speaking personally, I replayed TTYD a few months back, and while it certainly isn't perfect, and while I agree with pretty much all of your criticisms here, the moment-to-moment gameplay and story are so overwhelmingly strong that it's so easy to get lost in it all.
I certainly think the game struggles with pacing issues, poor level design, backtracking and some less-than-stellar moments (such as the train chapter not being fun to replay, as you noted). But it's just such an incredible overall package that I don't mind one bit. It's a shame, because Origami King actually improves quite a few of this game's flaws, but it regresses in quite a few areas as well. I feel that a combination of TTYD's battle system, story and characterization, mixed with TOK's exploration, beautiful artstyle and level design, would make for the perfect Paper Mario game.
The trouble system, and the blatant backtracking in some places are really the only flaws that lessen my experience with the game, but they don't do it by much.
I love Vivian 💜💜💜
best paper mario game to date, no doubt.
This was my first RPG and still my favorite.
goombario is better than goombella imo, i disagree about him being just a “tutorial” character, his voicelines when tattling in the overworld are always pretty funny and i prefer his personality for sure
i grew up saying x-nauts too but its actually pronounced cross-nauts
also little spoiler in case someone somehow hasnt finished the game
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TEC-XX is pronounced TEC-double-cross, hinting towards his betrayal towards Grodus :)
also i only yesterday realized x-nauts arent a weird white furry cat species wearing goggles
...
their costume is the entire outfit
the ears? a hat
the furry tuft?? a neckpiece
the hands and feet? gloves and boots
similarly as a kid i thought vivians bangs were a big swirly nose and that bobbery was... idk how to describe how i saw him, just that i didnt realize he was a bobomb for years.
A few generations later I realized this entry series was just way more beautiful in their art and also way more dumb in story.
it makes me sad going back and realizing how much backtracking really exists in this game, but it makes me so much sadder knowing that these issues wouldn’t be so bad if we had just lived in a timeline where the confusing choice to drop all the charm of this game, completely overhaul its gameplay style, and essentially kill of the series from within by pandering to a completely new audience that slowly suffocates the older fans with their misunderstanding of why people could be so upset over a spin off game.. i feel like we would’ve gotten multiple, better and better Thousand Year Doors and PM64s. i truly have no idea why Miyamoto decided characters with unique designs was no longer ok, or how the gameplay style as an “limited use attack collector” could ever be a better idea. or a spinning puzzle gameboard battler either. i can even give Super Paper a pass even if it suffers from a lack of Mario series characters, as each character still feels entirely unique even if the pixies take a massive hit in importance. the story and writing has gone so significantly down since Super as well, one of the most important parts of this series. the truth is that Super showed us that a lot of us don’t NEED paper Mario to be an rpg even if the battle style is extremely fun, but i just can’t wrap my head around how it went downhill so drastically
Timeless game
Love slap pierces defense for ZERO FP!! that's why her attack power is so low. I just wish she had more than one offensive move.
I hope that you'll address those controversial interviews concerning those arbitrary limits on the series creativity. You know, that whole "ever since Sticker Star, it is no longer possible to modify existing Mario characters"- shtick, cause let's be honest: Even if the gameplay did return to being like the first two games, it still wouldn't come anywhere close that same level of charm and personality that the first three games had. It's really saddening to people who grew up with the old games that the series isn't allowed to be as creative with it's character designs as it used to be.
I'll mention them for sure, but probably only in passing. It's not my style to harp on what could have been. I look at games for what they are, not what I or other fans or companies want them to be.
@@CloudConnection okay, thanks.
Keep up the good work!
“The Japanese localization of the game calls her a boy.”
You realize the game is …Japanese…right?
Yes I do, just made a simple mistake in the script and didn't catch it when recording
Veil is still good for wasting enemy charges.
Calling Chapter 3 “interesting” is an understatement.
You didn't mention bonetail. I know you didn't beat the pit but you could have looked it up.
I know about Bonetail. I chose not to talk about them. I don't have the time to mention every single detail about everything I cover.