Paper Mario VS The Thousand Year Door | Comparing Paper Mario 64 and TTYD
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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Here it is, a big review of Paper Mario and Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door. Actually, this is my longest fully-edited video ever. I've been wanting to review these N64 and Gamecube classics for some time now, so I'm really happy I finally got this out. In the end, the comparison format felt the most natural, so I hope it worked well! :)
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TIME STAMPS
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:01:36 - Part 1: Mario Story
00:24:07 - Skillshare Sponsorship
00:25:12 - Part 2: Break a Leg
00:36:24 - Part 3: Life on the Stage
00:48:06 - Curtain Call
LOWART'S SUPER SERIOUS BACKTRACKING CRITERIA
- Backtracking needs to last at least one minute continuously
- Can't involve interacting with the same environment in a different way
- Doesn't include time spent battling (unless I ran away immediately upon entering the battle)
- Doesn't include any times where I got lost or made a mistake that resulted in backtracking
VIDEO GAMEPLAY CREDITS
Tricky Superguards in Paper Mario: TTYD by Kappy
- • Tricky Superguards in ...
ScykohPlays 100% Walkthrough of Paper Mario
- • Paper Mario (N64)
BACKGROUND MUSIC (IN ORDER OF USE AND BY SECTION):
Introduction
- Intro Story from TTYD
- Main Title from Paper Mario
Part 1
- Goomba Village from PM
- Koopa Bros. Trickery from PM
- A City in the Stars from PM
- Tubba Blubba's Castle from PM
- All Aboard to Rogueport from TTYD
- Curse of the Black Box from TTYD
- Rogueport from TTYD
- Petalburg from TTYD
- Hooktail's Castle from TTYD
- Glitz Pit from TTYD
- Sadness and Happiness from TTYD
- Twilight Town from TTYD
- Excess Express at Dusk from TTYD
- The Great Boggly Tree from TTYD
- Glitz Pit from TTYD (again)
- Peach and the Mysterious Map from TTYD
- Doopliss Battle from TTYD
Skillshare sponsorship
- To Weather a Storm by Dan Lebowitz
Part 2
- March Ahead from PM
- Clouds Over Flower Fields (Cloudy) from PM
- Professor Frankly from TTYD
- Madame Flurrie from TTYD
- Grubba's Theme from TTYD
- Blast-off to the Moon from TTYD
- Glitz Pit Mysteries from TTYD
Part 3
- Battle Fanfare from PM
- Hey You! from PM
- Shy Guy from PM
- Tutorial Battle from TTYD
- Battle Theme from TTYD
OUTRA (CURTAIN CALL)
- Level Up! from PM
- Princess Peach Saved from PM - Hry
Bobbery's subplot is the first time a game made me cry as a kid
Poor old bomb man.
Admirable bobbery ❤😿
it still makes me cry to these days
Yeah, he had such a sad story.
A concept I hardly see being talked about! Before watching the video, I'm going to say: both games are 10/10 masterpieces in their own right; I prefer the gameplay of TTYD but the world and map exploration are much better in 64; which is to this day still, my favorite interpretation of the Mushroom Kingdom.
I agree that Paper Mario 64 has way better maps and sceneries. But TTYD has better badges, star abilities, partner abilities, and battle dynamics or whatever the word is lol. Like it took things from the original and just made it 10x better (except for the maps.)
@@bm-zy3gv that's what gameplay means.
I agree. Gameplay TTYD is better with better partner combat and more varied moves but the world and theme of PM64 is so...homely. The familiar sights of the Mushroom Kingdom just makes the game seem very nostalgic and relaxing for me
@@AquaAtia I agree on your sentiments!
@@fernando98322 that’s why I said I agree with what you said....Why when I say I agree with you and also explain, you get smart. But when that second person did the exact same thing you’re much more friendly with them?
I can't think of the right words to express how amazing both Paper Mario games are that hasn't already been said. I love how grainy the artwork in Paper Mario 64 looks. I love how all the battles take place on a stage with an audience in Thousand Year Door. The mod community does better work on Paper Mario than Nintendo.
Eh I think it like they bred this kinda thing and Nintendo moved on which is fine.
For me The Original was better. Even though TTYD is not too far away from the original, the start of a series trend of the series becomes gimmicky but not to the point that the story takes a major backseat to the gimmicks compared to sticker star and colour splash. In TTYD the gimmicks of Mario folding himself or rolling himself wasn't too bad. In Super Paper Mario the gimmicks were almost equal to the story. Origami King was first since TTYD for the story to become the main focus again. For me if I had to put them in an order for best to least favourite I put the 1- Paper Mario, 2-TTYD, 3-Origami King, 4-Super Paper Mario, and 5/6 Sticker Star and Colour Splash.
I love the first Paper Mario. I remember actually thinking I actually was probably too old to really enjoy it like I should, then I found the first star piece and was like "woah."
I can't tell you how many times I replayed it. xD It's probably, hands down, one of my favorites to this day. And I'm 28. haha
Yeah really, @@DreamingHearts and J.J. Cheesman. I never played any of the Paper Mario games after The Thousand Year Door. I only played the first two Paper Mario games. Oh man, they are some of the best RPGs I have ever played. They are not dumbed down, but they are also not super involving and complicated like many of the Final Fantasy games are. The first two Paper Mario games are fairly balanced between being cartoon-y fun and an immersive RPG.
If you thought you were to old back then how old are you now,
@@JonPicoCokeJones Paper mario came out 20 years ago damn gues he’s in his 40s
@@DreamingHearts I'm 28 too! First game will always be an all time great.
They’re Star SPIRITS not Star SPRITES. Delete this video and release an apology or I’m calling the police.
You gonna do that much out of star spite?
Man I love that new Sprite flavor
Wanna sprite cranberry?
The star sprites are an M&L thing
Shine sprite*
I hope Nintendo does a Paper Mario Trilogy collection one day so that people can experience what Paper Mario used to be.
Okay, so now we have The Thousand-Year Door being remastered for The Switch at long last. That's good enough for me, and everyone else.
They won't do that.... Ever..... They want to make sure that LESS people play the older games because even though it's causing a spilt between THEIR fanbase, it's good for business if less people play the older games because it causes most of their fans to be uniformed of the past of Paper Mario so they can't compare the past with the present. The people who have played the older games can easily compare the past to the present therefore can see a drop of quality. Newer fans or people who just didn't play Paper Mario 1 and TTYD can't therefore games like Origami King seems much better as a result. Also the conflict between the two halves is basically free advertising. Since it's not all bad or good, people get curious and buy the game themselves. A collection would no doubt be the highest selling Paper Mario game but it would cause more hatred towards the newer games. That would cause every future game to sell less.... The collection would be extremely sucessful but it would stop any other future games to be less so.... This would force Nintendo to drop the series or change it back to being a RPG to get any success after the collection and.... They have made it very clear that they DON'T want to go back to the RPG formula so.... Yeah.... Sadly not gonna happen
Considering Nintendo straight up refuses to bring Paper Mario back to it's roots, that seems unlikely. But Don't get me wrong, I would love that!
@@BreatheForAMoment the new pm games have the rpg formula
Que shrek meme: Yeah like that's gonna happen!! :p
It's a classic move of "Hmm, the people really seem to want make it clear that they want the older style Paper Mario games...let's double down and show them that they're wrong."
I will now measure backtracking in units of kung fu pandas
It's the only way
@@Lowart This is the way.
I hope we'll get another Paper Mario like these two.
It's probably meant to be pronounced "Cross", not "X". Noughts and crosses is another name for tic-tac-toe, and more importantly it causes TEC-XX to be read as "TEC-Double Cross". Neat, right?
Its 100% cross. There is even an enemy if you tattle on it goombella says its pronouced cross yuk not x yuck
Yeah you're definitely right haha. I always find someway to mispronounce something.
Not like its a big deal. Everyone knows what your saying. Its just a cultural thing. Same thing as capcoms project x zone. Actually pronounced project cross zone. I haven't looked into it enough to know why x is cross there. Figure its like how some countries say zed instead of z
I'm still calling them the "X"nauts. If they wanted me to acknowledge it is "Cross Nauts", they should've spelled it that way instead of "X"nauts.
@@jessicalaplant9306 Not quite a cultural thing. It's more just that X is both a letter, and a symbol representing two crossing lines.
Now you have to talk about Super Paper Mario.
Not a bad game but still the first step in the wrong direction. It revealed that they were already done with and moving away from the original successful formula. Fantastic story and still a good game though.
@@CGJUGO80 True, but at least it still had care into it before it fully switched direction.
As a younger kid I played TTYD first and was absolutely smitten with Vivian. Twilight Town was always my favorite location
Agreed
i love vivian especially after finding shes transgender im sad this was censored in the american localization but thankfully most europeon ports keep it in
@@Kunimitsu877 I never knew that..oh well she's still one of my favorite partners her and the little Yoshi.
@@Kunimitsu877 really
same. And that was before I even knew she was written as transgender. She's written especially well considering that.
31:20 YOOO THAT AGED WAAAAAAAAY TO WELL
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Well hold on now we still need to be sure if that backtracking is taken out for what he said to “age well”
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official true true but honestly if the add luigi side quest then they can double the length of the general white crap and i would still pick it up day one (man im just pumped rn this sunday we find out the release date)
@@ollimark8582 Same
What's insane is that it really did age well... though I haven't started the General White stuff yet. They changed a room in the Rougeport Undeground to serve as a warp pipe hub to travel between the major destinations (each pipe becoming unlocked one their respective crystal star has been attained and the TYD visited). I think it's how they did it on Origami King?
They even added a couple pipes in some more locations to reduce the pain of backtracking, one of which is actually a pipe from Twilight Town to the Creepy Steeple.
paper mario was originally envisioned as a sequel to super mario rpg so you should also play that one and look at how it compares.
Yeah I'm definitely going to play that game in the near future. I'm really excited to check it out since I've played most of the other Mario RPGs.
I played SMRPG after Paper Mario. I found it played really slowly, and action command timing was more trial and error. Suffice to say it did some cool things but it wasn't very enjoyable for me.
@@benjiiiiiiiii But SMRPG is a much faster game than Paper Mario is? Battles, travel, dialogue, pacing, everything is much faster in that game. Paper Mario is honestly rather slow paced in comparison. Paper Mario is rather slow paced in general.
@@benjiiiiiiiii Yeah I noticed that too. I only ever got to the crocodile chase. I really need to force myself to play it .
Griffnix unfortunately I didn't really enjoy myself anymore as I kept playing
Heyyyy there, thanks for watching my video and sticking around to the end
B L E S S Y A
Even though it was mentioned lightly in the video, let’s never forget the fact the evil spirits that were in the black chests were once HEROES. Their lore itself always made me want to have a spinoff where we get to experience their story.
A strong Toad from Petal Meadows, a wise Goomba from Boggly Woods, a scar covered, world traveling Koopa, and a cold Boo were the four heroes. They learned of the evil Shadow Queen and teamed up to defeat her. In the great battle, they managed to seal the demon, but just before the fight was completed, she cursed them. If they ever let go of the Crystal Stars, a black chest would appear and lock them away for all eternity.
The heroes knew the seal on the Shadow Queen was only temporary, and they wanted the stars available to one who might need them. They made a Magical Map to the stars, and to stop evil from using it, they put it in a box that could only be opened by the pure of heart.
The Toad was exhausted from his journey and collapsed in Petal Meadows. A healer saved him, but knowing his fate, the Toad gave them his Crystal Star and asked them to hide it where nobody would find it. His box is in Hooktail Castle. The Goomba knew the Punies were being terrorized by the nearby monsters, so she hollowed out the Great Tree. She gave the Emerald Star to the Punies where they have been keeping it safe for the past thousand years. Her chest is in Rogueport Sewers. The Koopa went to hide the Sapphire Star in Keelhaul Key, but Cortez came and easily took it for himself. The Koopa was so tired he did not stand a chance. His chest is in the Pirate's Grotto. The Boo hid the Ruby Star in Creepy Steeple, and her box is in a shop's storage room in Twilight Town.
GOD I want this game so badly...
I wish stuff like that was conveyed in the main story. Never would have guessed the curse demons were the former heroes and no idea why they "turned bad". Would have been cool to find out
@@ProtofallYeah, would've loved to know more about that! But I suppose they didn't wanna overcomplicate it by adding in a separate storyline taking up the main game story''s attention!
@@TetraTheThief True, but if they did they could have had a reason to integrate the 4 of them into the end story, would make sense since they'd hate the Shadow Queen for what she did to them.
I love the thousand year door so much and it was a delight to have the chance to view it in a light not blinded by nostalgia. Much love Lowart! Keep working hard! I’m looking forward to the next video!
Good video. I wanted to add that TTYD also has backtracking during Chapter 5. You have to go back and forth from the settlement to the grotto's entrance a total of five times before you can enter. That is without going to get the coconut, assuming you know about it from previous playthroughs. And this is actually the only instance in the game where you can skip backtracking with this kind of knowledge, yet it only saves you a little bit of time..
Mhm. I wonder if there are instances where they could've easily add ways to avoid specific backtracking.
@@PlasmaStar-me1hq I say just have Flavio join from the start. He has the chuckola cola on him at all times, still asks for the coconut but waits for you at the grotto's entrance instead of the settlement, and then you can immediately figure out how to enter it with Flavio not returning to camp.
Alternate: make the island loop. Make it so that you can return to the beach from the grotto's entrance and viceversa.
@@Hawlo totally!
Yeah definitely. This is one of those cases where my definition of backtracking leaned towards being very kind to the game. The number I gave was definitely a bit of an under-representation of the backtracking, but I wanted to lean towards giving the game the benefit of the doubt, if that makes sense
Don't you have to backtrack to the thousand year door after you get every crystal star too? In 64 you do go back to Toad Town after each chapter but you could immediately move on to the next chapter and sometimes it warps you there.
The thing about the curses from TTYOD is that the evil spirits are (according to what I have read online, I think TV Tropes) actually the heroes that sealed the last boss thousands of years ago, that's why their curses are all helpful.
He mentions this
this is the content I live for
Woohoo it's my longest video essay ever. I hope you enjoy it! Also, some people are apparently being served this video as an ad??? I'm as confused as you are. I didn't pay to make this an ad. Someone else must have? But I have no idea why they would? What on earth.
Also, the first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/lowart12201 so remember to check that out if it's something you're interested in.
Please do a video where you criticize the direction that modern Paper Mario has went, especially with the arbitrary restrictions on character designs.
instead of replaying regular TTYD, you could play the new Hero Mode Mod
Yeah that looks really cool. I definitely want to check it out. Might stream it at some point
star SPIRITS
Vivian is actually more developed in any version that isn't the English and German version, since her sisters bullied for being a transgender. She wanted to be a woman like her sisters and they bullied her saying she would always be a man.
And the only person that accepts her for what she is is her enemy.
In the end she does manage to reconcile with her sisters.
Great video! People these days tend to just talk about TTYD and sideline 64 at best and pretend like it doesn't exist at worst. I think your analysis was pretty spot-on. TTYD is ambitious and creative, but sometimes gets a little too big for its own britches while 64 plays it safer, but is much more tight in its execution.
Also: If you haven't tried it yet, I highly recommend Bug Fables. Not looking for a video or anything, I just legit think it's a game every fan of classic Paper Mario should play if they get a chance.
I'm happy you enjoyed the video! And yeah I'm definitely gonna check out Bug Fables :) It looks fantastic
People sidelined 64? I thought people talked about 64
Ambitious in story but definitely not level design (save for like Rogueport itself lol) which is really odd considering the first one set the foundation for it to build on.
The hallways thing is intentional. The game is framed as a theatre performance. A stage generally has two wings, left and right.
Just like real life politics.
Yeeeah that doesn't make it fun though. I love TTYD and I'll readily admit that.
Hadn't thought of the entire game, including outside battles being like a stage and backstage. Fascinating concept. Makes me wonder what would happen if Mario and company or the villains escape the theater.
For these games, I think the unskippable cutscenes actually add to the game.
When you just spawn and go straight to a boss, it removes risk of going into the fight. Think of how bioshock ruins the horror feeling by making fights feel endless and like dying is part of winning. While in a game like dark souls, you may spend a week learning to approach a boss, only to die in one hit. This game doesn't have the mountainous approach like dark souls, but the unskippable cut scenes actually added to my immersion in the game as a kid.
I disagree, unskipable cutscenes aren't a risk, they're just annoying.
Yeah, I don't have to have the same story segment repeated mandatorily every time I lose. A compromise would be making the cutscenes repeat, and once you have seen them, if you die, you can skip them on the next try.
It freaked me out as a kid when hooktail ate part of the audience.
They died...
“A kid that might be willing to eat his own mom when she turns into a pig” Never thought that would be a sentence I would hear.
**...only in paper mario...**
When I played TTYD, I felt like I am playing Paper Mario 64, but improved in almost every way.
More attack options, better story, better partner attacks, I like the theatre mechanic, more badges, a actual tattle log (PM 64 really needed one), most bosses are better (not all), etc.
I liked the Star Spirits more than the Crystal Stars, and I liked those partner upgrade blocks more than the shine sprites, and backtracking is truly a problem but apart from these TTYD is the winner for me
(Note: I love both games)
I never realized how much back tracking there was until you pointed it out! Lol, still one of my all time fav games. Top 10 for sure!
Thousand year door in my opinion is one of the greatest games ever made. Why have they not remade it and released it on later consoles? It's a masterpiece.
What's more baffling is how that game is a masterpiece just like Chrono Trigger and yet that game had been re-released multiple times too and NOT TTYD.
@@Loner098 I think that's mostly on how Nintendo views the game. They rarely remake Mario spinoffs and probably sees TTYD as just another "harmless fun little mario spinoff"
I say this, yet the first three mario parties have been "remade" onto the switch so maybe it's possible? But I doubt it.
it took 2 years after your comment for your wish to come out, officially but another year for it to release.
Right? Imagine if they remade it on the switch and added even more personality and uniqueness to the game. That would be insane
Now that we are all friends , lets hate sticker star together 😃
Now I just want to replay both of them.
I'm not going to rag on the modern Paper Mario titles, but it's a shame we're likely never getting another game like this, especially since TTYD takes so many cues directly from the first game, it kind of reminds me of the relationship between Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2. I wish we gotten to see this formula of game design grow into it's own thing
@Pen Bashiro, MD I've definitely had my eye on Bug Fables
Well you can hope now, we have so many things indicating a genuine Paper Mario game coming after the ttyd remake.
@@trenth.7053 That would be flipping awesome. I'm hoping we can!
Thank you for shouting out the things that the original game is better at! I too often find that people just love talking about TTYD and ignore the original game (my personal favorite).
Saying paper Mario is more consistent and thousand year door has higher highs and lower lows sums it up perfectly. Glad to hear an honest comparison between the two.
Super Paper Mario follows that to an even more extreme degree (the higher highs/the lower lows). I think it’s the funniest in the series, with the best story, but also some of the weakest gameplay and substandard Pixl partners.
Thousand Year Door hands down wrecks every Mario game ever made. It had not only story depth with unique characters and abilities but also had quite the extensive combat system. You can literally one shot bosses if you know what you are doing and abuse the system by min-maxing.
Too bad it’s like $100 (from what I’ve seen)
@@adachy Nintendo: let's ban emulators to prevent piracy!
Also Nintendo: let's refuse to release our most wanted games on our new systems, so people have no choice but to pirate them!
@@TwilightWolf032 I basically hate to love and love to hate Nintendo
@@TwilightWolf032 At this point I'm starting to think Nintendo wants people forget the old Paper Mario games existed.
Story depth? I disagree, it's just a "stop the evil thing". Origami king is better story wise, you actually have an understanding of who Olly is and what he dors actually affects you, like killing Bobby.
My two fav games of all time
Spot on about the unskippable cutscene XD The first time I played through, I made it to the final boss, kept dying, kept having to wait 5 minutes to try again... I gave up. I did eventually start over and knowing what I knew, I spent a lot of time grinding and getting the Super Shrooms and was able to beat it!
The tropical island area in TTYD is so much worse though, it's just a linear path and a water volcano.
The story saves it.
Cope
I am just playing Color Splash and I love it!
as a guy who has played super mario rpg and has always heard about how good these games are yes I will play both and I'm absolutely delighted you made this video cause it was really good and totally justified in it's own length
Damn right I stuck until the end. I love what input you had on the series! Makes me wanna dig out the N64 again. Haha Thanks for the comparison!
Seriously makes my day when you upload! Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I'm really happy you enjoyed it :)
Ask and he shall receive. Amazing as always Lowart! Thanks so much for the nostalgia trip and so much sooner than expected!
CZcams has blessed me with content that I look forward to watching... in the morning 😂😂
But honestly, for the first two minutes of the video, I swear it could have been me talking. Your history with playing the Paper Mario games, as well as Superstar Saga, brought back so many memories of my childhood. I'm getting so much nostalgia rn
What makes paper mario 64 is the music and characters, i went in with little expectations and was blown away. Its one of my favourite Nintendo games, and I’m still trying to get my hands on TTYD and I’m certain it will live up to the hype
18:00 Nuh uh. I dumped my heart and soul into these cutscenes, and by God you're going to watch them, whether you like it or not!
The fact that most people still enjoyed Super Paper Mario is proof that the dislike for many of the recent entries isn't just because it's not the same genre as the first 2.
Oragami King was so good but the whole time I kept thinking about how much better it could be if it was an rpg. The turn-based combat is just so tedious since you cannot get any stronger. Super Paper Mario was still an RPG, and it gave you a reason to fight all the enemies for getting stronger.
i don't appreciate how Miyamoto won't allow original characters in Paper Mario now. So many characters from this game and on N64 are struck in my mind rent free
Thanks for putting the sponsor in between the chapters so I knew where to skip
“Star Sprites...”
Spirits... SPIRITS!!!!
Edit: Love your videos! Big fan! Great stuff!
haha just another pronunciation video! I've always gotta slip at least one in somewhere. Thanks though! I'm really happy you enjoyed the video :)
As a sf 3 3s player I always like the timing and the battle on this game and I think it's because it's really similar to performing a parry it's satisfying
One of my favorite things about TTYD is the ability to play the open world after the story is completed. In the 64 game, if you completed the story and did not get all side quests done, that was it. You couldn't go back to do anything else without restarting the game all the way over again. I'm glad they realized that for TTYD and let you co tinge your quests after the story was completed
Yeah and I’m excited for TTYD to be remade this year. And you’re probably thinking “well why won’t Nintendo remake the first paper Mario?” Well because it’s already on Nintendo Switch online. Like why would Nintendo remake the first paper Mario if it’s on Nintendo Switch online? There’s no point in begging for that.
I like it more when villains don't get backstories because you still know that they're a threat
21:49 I've always thought that the reason Doopliss went and helped Beldam is because he was petty over the fact that Mario stopped his fun and beat him in Chapter 4. And, y'know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Bro love your videos. You make great stuff and its all very high quality keep it up man.
Thanks! I really appreciate that and I hope you enjoy this one, too :)
This video was uploaded on my birthday! I love both games but Paper Mario on the N64 will always be in my heart.
I think my favorite part about Thousand Year Door is that basically every character has a backstory of some kind of you tattle on them with goombella. Including some crazy stuff only adults would understand like the rat you invest money with being an oil tycoon. There's some crazy weird stuff in that part of the game
I honestly think you should do a review on SPM just because I want to hear your thoughts on it, particularly the combat and its exploration.
Meanwhile Bower's Inside Story does both with its main villain.
Love this so much! Keep up the good work man!!
I adore The Origami King so i've been wanting to play these two games, seems great
I’d like to see your thoughts on Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling since it really does a lot to build on the mechanics of TTYD. In my opinion it easily surpasses its inspirations and is more than a worthy spiritual successor.
I think in terms of gameplay, game mechanics, character development and side content I would say Bug Fables improves on the Paper Mario games in nearly every way. However, I would say the visuals, individual chapter narratives, and definitely bosses are all significantly better in the classic Paper Mario games, especially TTYD and SPM. And while I do love the Final Boss in Bug Fables the end of the game can’t hold a candle to the endings to TTYD and SPM, or even the original PM honestly.
Overall I think from a game design perspective Bug Fables is better than any of the Paper Mario games, even TTYD which I think is the best one, but as an overall experience I think it doesn’t quite match it. The partners and individual chapters just make TTYD more memorable to me, despite it having more flaws. It’s strengths are just too strong.
Toby Fox going a step further with skippable cutscenes in Undertale, remixing the text because the npc knows you've been there before and potentially mocks you for dying to them, however many times you did. Some even having snarky comments if you reset the game file.
Two incredible games!! Felt like your critiques for fair, albeit a bit nitpicky at points. Excellent work and hope to see you explore Paper Mario in further video essays 🙏🏽
I wish they'd make one that isnt gimmick or sticker based and expand on the combat of paper 1 and 2.
In an alternate reality maybe
Finally a real Discussion that hard to truely answer
Don't know if you play "Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars" since this video, but you really should. It was like my favorite game on the SNES.
A huge thing in favor of TTYD's combat - the fact the environment on the stage interacts with you (set pieces falling, the stage get foggy, blowing up, etc)
Now this is epic.
You'll be happy to know you can skip cutscenes in the TTYD remake on Switch.
I would love to see a video of you giving Super Mario RPG a shot and seeing how it compares to paper mario and ttyd.
Love this vid! What’s that scary sound at 34:56 thou
I remember finding that bub ulb on mt rugged and i was so excited that i had found a secret quest and then it turned out to be required. And i also remember climbing that tower in flower fields thinking there would be a cool mini boss but it was just the sun sitting there, chapter 6 should've been a secret chapter and could've been alot better.
Yeah, as a kid, I noticed the games' similarities too. A main antagonist who kidnaps Peach and wields a scepter, a subordinate for said antagonist, cutscenes and levels about Peach's captivity, involving a loyal helper, similar Party Members and places to encounter, an informative Goomba/first partner, a stairway that leads to the final battle, an interruption due to the final boss's invincibility, seven powerful stars to collect and strengthen you for the final fight...Oh, yeah, the two games are similar all right. "Super Paper Mario" is too, but in a different way. Not long captivity for Peach and her helper, just one scene and brief help. Not typical Party Members, different Pixels (including an informative first member). Not *seven* _stars_ to collect, *eight* _hearts_ instead. Not a hammer Mario owns and carries around everywhere, a hammer he borrows from a Pixl. Not a Toad-filled town/hub, Flip-flop townsfolk and Toads in the Stylish Moves. Not one final invincible boss the magical collection helps you fight, two (Count Bleck AND Dementio).
While the third game stands out within, I think the first three Paper Mario games would be good on a disk, like "Super Mario 3D All-Stars." However, I don't really like Sticker Star, Color Splash, or Origami King (although I haven't played the third game, I've just CZcamsd it and found it uninteresting). Does anyone think Paper Mario and PMTYD (and perhaps SPM) are better than the others? Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's a common opinion.
It's funny how much your experience with mario RPGs lines up with mine. I don't remember if thousand year door or mario and luigi were my first RPGs but I played both around the same time, downloaded paper mario on my wii and had a slight preference for thousand year door at first
I just beat 64 today and I am extremely hyped for TTYDR since I haven’t played before. I’ve only ever beat Super before 64 lol,
"I won't be mad. I'll be disappointed."
Bruh, that's a death threat right there. Disappointment hurts more than anger. XD
We can Spin dash in PM 1 to be fast VS PM2 with a Good Story, unique Bosses & A rly Good Final Battle.
I would say Spin dash wins.
These two games were my childhood.
I was the opposite of you as a kid I was obsessed with collecting star points to level up
8:57 And also Super Mario RPG
Both had a chapter where the star doesn't require a bossfight.
Both's 5th star had an ending where you get the star from a pirate, but before you move on to the next one, you have to fight with someone, who also wants it.
Etc.
Did you just knock out a golden dayzee? Dude! Nice.
10:45 "single most metal thing in Mario"
Partners in time and its aliens that suck the happiness and vigor out of people to use as ship fuel says hi :)
or SUper Paper Mario's villains' goals
Dude what about the toads that are just stuck to the trees forever in that game begging for help? That whole game is pretty dark really.
32:00 I don't know that I'd go so far as to "defend" the General White backtracking in the game, but I will say that it feels extremely intentional, like the game is trying to invoke frustration as an intended emotional reaction. You spend all that time searching all those different places, and when you've given up and return to the outpost, it turns out he's been there the whole time, and to give a release valve for your own frustration, you literally beat him up for like a minute until he wakes up. It feels like a prank being pulled at the player's expense.
It begs a lot of questions about game design, like: if you create a game mechanic designed to piss off the player, and it does in fact piss off the player, then you've succeeded at your game design goal! But... you know. Your game design goal was to piss off the player. Is that a game design goal worth having?
I feel like this section is quite funny the first time you play it.
But then you play the game again. And it's so boring. The funny factor is gone 'cuz you've already had the joke played out. You know what to expect.
Hey, I know I'm late but great video here. Both of these games here are some of my most favorite games of all time and it's interesting to see them compared together like this. You brought up some really good points about TTYD's structure that I didn't even realize was there hehe.
Tho, I do have to wonder... Did you know that TTYD was actually pretty rushed? That's why some things about it are so messy like all the backtracking, namely chapters 4 & 7 (tho I honestly didn't mind any of the backtracking in this game) or why some narrative things aren't ever answered like Grodus & Beldam's motivations.
So I'm curious to know if you're opinion on TTYD's level design would be any different with knowing it was mostly rushed?
Anyway, I do have to agree with there honestly not being a clear winner for the better game here. Both are so very well done while having their own problems as well as having different tones for what their stories set out to do. I love both games so very much and am really happy to have gotten to play them ^u^
Yeah they're both super fun games! I did hear a bit about TTYD being rushed in its development. Seems to be a pattern with Gamecube games, unfortunately. However, that doesn't really change my opinion on things, since this is still the end result we got. Even so, I'd never blame the creators for that, which is why I usually try to avoid blaming writers or game makers or anything like that. It's very hard to pin an error on any party, since there are so many factors at play.
@@Lowart That's true. Very interesting indeed... X3
0:49 I wont deny...that's exactly how I feel lol.
The paper mario in the thumbnail looks so janky I love him.
No offense newer fans, but the characters and the environments in the first 3 games were way more interesting to play through. You don’t get as much of it in the modern era.
On paper (no pun intended), TTYD is objectively the better game and by a long shot. The mechanics are much better, the gameplay is far deeper, the environments are more creative as well as the story by light years, and there’s just more to it. However, there’s just a certain charm about Paper Mario 64 that TTYD just can’t beat. It feels like a kid’s first RPG yet so complete and fun at the same time. Not to mention the pacing and music are better in the original in my opinion. Overall, I prefer TTYD because it’s an objective upgrade over the original and there’s just more to it. But while that may be true, the original game absolutely holds up in every way.
I just beat the first one last week on the NSO then decided to start over on my actual 64 im at chapter 5 already. At the same time I started TTYD as well so I'm rotating between the two games every time I complete a chapter in 64 I play the next chapter in TTYD
I'm here to bully you and tell you I did most of the flower fields order right the first time.
I hope you do videos on the other Mario RPGs since they're really good too
Fantastic video my friend.
I definitely think they improved on the "villain's character not being explored enough" in Super Paper Mario which had far and away the best villains in the series, who almost felt like their own little family with their interactions between chapters. I know that game is a lot different in the gameplay department but I always felt like it belonged with the first two in its tone and keeping with most of the traditions from the earlier entries, even if implementing them in different ways due to the gameplay shift. I love TTYD's villains too, but yeah I feel like the ending cheapened them. I want to know Grodus's backstory and who the X-Nauts are other than "generic evil organization and that's all you need to know"
All in all, I just want a fourth game that fits with the first three again. I don't think this series cares what it used to be anymore and I wish it did. Give me a Mario Story 4, with its own Merlon and all that, you know. 😭
To me, the writing in TTYD is superior to 64 on most accounts. Sure, Grodus is a stock super villain, but on an emotional level, TTYD is deeper, and on a tension and intrigue level, it’s superior. But the best improvement might be the humor. The writings snappier, more self aware, and witty. Also plenty of irony. 64 was a bit more tame in that department.
@19:10 Um actually, *adjusts nerd glasses* itsh a gameboy ADVANCE!
Great video.
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I like Paper Mario 64 way more than TTYD. The combat is simple and fun, the world and story are rather well-designed, music is amazing, and most of all, the game is shorter and sweeter. I replayed TTYD recently and it was just too dang long and got super repetitive. I think 64 has a much better vision for what it wanted to be.
This is a good analysis, but I feel you undervalued TTYD's fun factor at the end. While the game's design does leave something to be desired in places, your closing statement makes it sound like the game's modestly enjoyable rather than very fun with mediocre patches. I'm obviously biased as a lifelong fan, but I'd make the conclusion sound slightly more positive while keeping things in perspective.
Keep up the great videos! I look forward to your future work.
That's basically my main issue with all this negativity around TTYD nowadays. Its always a hyperfocus on the less than desirable parts and not enough of being a fun game with some pitfalls along the way.
Super paper mario: ;( I exist to
Honestly, if I had to pick a favourite Paper Mario, Super would be it. While it may lose out with the partners, the main story significantly eclipses anything the other two did.
@@Pikaton659 I always thought the greater focus on the villans more than made up for the lack of focus on partners too
@Pen Bashiro, MD it was changed because super was originally going to also be for the GameCube so they didn’t want a second TTYD on the same hardware
@Pen Bashiro, MD Even disregarding the fact that I enjoyed Super's gameplay, I disagree. Story is everything. I don't care if you have the best gameplay ever, I won't be able to play without the hook of a story. Conversely, a great story can make playing through poor gameplay a breeze.
@Pen Bashiro, MD I personally find Super Paper Mario's story to be really overhyped.
I have just recently played ttyd and I’m almost to the end and I’ve already beat 64, and lol when you talked about the part of the game where you find general white I felt the exact same way.
This popped up ever since the TTYD remake. I’m my wildest dreams I hope they merge both games into one like how in Pokémon gen 2 you can go back to the Kanto area and do some of the things there