Man I have just touched in to the AR platform. Took Winchester white box to the range and had my wife spot for me. Ruger AR556 with irons at 100 yards. She said out loud “that Winchester is garbage”. It was everywhere. I had Bosnian surplus ammo that shot better. Hornady Frontier is way better. Thanks for mirroring and confirming my results.
I stick to one 5.56 brand when done testing because different brands have higher or lower fps and all other brands won't be zeroed to the brand you zeroed with.
Three of my 20" ARs love Winchester/Lake City 55gr M193. One inch groups at 100 yds are easy. OTOH all three have Wilson barrels. Wilson makes a lot of AR barrels. My most accurate AR with M193 is a Green Mountain 20". I have shot several 1/2" groups at 100 yds with it. It is all about barrel quality sports fans.
Good information, thanks for making this video. Not too surprised about the Winchester. Their ammo has always performed pretty poorly across the board in my experience, and I have refused to purchase their ammo in years. I really like PMC x Tac and get about similar performance from my rifle as you did.
It’s funny because I did a similar test with mostly the same ammo cartridges, but with the following changes: - PMC Bronze (BT) instead of XTAC - I also tested Monarch, Academy’s house brand that I believe is made by PPU - I shot 1 of each round in sequential order, 5 rounds each (so 25 shots total) I had very similar results. The key take away was that the Winchester white box really was total ass. And it’s not even the cheapest! Never buying it again. Frontier was the most accurate for me, but just barely-as the Academy Monarch/PPU ammo shot nearly as accurately (and it was the CHEAPEST ammo I shot!). The PMC Bronze was ok, way better than the Winchester, but I thought it would perform at the top (but didn’t). Still, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it again.
Pmc xtac 55g is my bulk go-to for a min. Turners has solid deals and I'm grouping bout 1.5" with 1:8 16". Hornady is better, but it does fluctuates in price alot and can get expensive for my bulk shooting.
From my testing there's 5 "true" M193 choices. Those are Federal, PPU, Winchester, Hornady Frontier and my favorite, IMI. Everything else I've tested falls well below 3k fps out of a 16" barrel and have rather shit accuracy. The current lot of IMI & Frontier that I have are actually showing 3100 fps averages at muzzle and anywhere from 1.45 - 2.2moa. Last wolf gold lot I tested was horrible, couldn't get better than a 3.6moa, never had any luck with that junk.
@@chrischiampo7647 isn't that essentially magtech? I tested a newer lot of the stuff and it did pretty well through my 16", I believe it was getting like 3010fps muzzle but the spread was very low which helped with groups.
How do you figure they’re out of spec? Most of them are crimped and require you to swage them before putting a new primer in but I’ve loaded plenty of them
@@magnusskipton7067 I think your swager isn’t set up correctly. I use PMC brass all the time and just use a Dillon swager on it. If a primer won’t guy in, I turn it in a circle until it does. After the 2nd firing they all go in smooth
If I’m not mistaken, the military typically uses the M856 62GR round out of their M4’s. They’re slowly switching over to the M855A1 which has similar accuracy to the original version. But if that is a 1:7 Twist barrel It will probably see better accuracy with 62GR+ weight ammo.
Doesn’t matter too much what anyone else tells you about ammo. YOU need to try and test a bunch of brands, and see what shoots well out of Your barrel, and just stock up on that. Different barrels do better with different ammo. I don’t know why. It’s just the way the universe works.
yeah it's weird. My rifle doesn't like the Winchester M193, but it loves the Winchester 62 grain FMJ (NOT green tip, just solid lead). I'm in the process of finding a 55 grain that it likes since the 62 grain non green tip is kind of hard to find.
Stupid take. One person doesn’t have the ability to go out and test thousands of rounds sold every hour. I’m sick of Winchester because the brass is very dirty from the factory and I’ve heard others have had issues as well. Working as a group to help make decisions is the only way to do this. You can’t reliably trust your life to something that only you have tried. Use your head instead of commenting nonsense that makes you feel good.
Completely agree. The barrel is metal with a lot of variations in fabrication and materials. Even if you use the exact same fabrication and materials and have high quality control. Guess what. You are STILL going to have variances in the metal. Then the rifling. Differences in rifling? You bet. Same twist have differences? Yes. Then the round. Does each and every one have the same amount of powder specks in it? No it doesn't. Do all the bullets weigh exactly the same? I think there would be some variance there. So many variables you can't get them all together.
@@Bigbossman12624What? Dude, this has nothing to do with affordability or community results. You can take two IDENTICAL barrels from the SAME manufacturer and get wildly different results with the EXACT same ammo from the EXACT same lot. You CANNOT go off of what Billy Bob says the best ammo in the world is with his particular gun and take it as absolute truth. That’s just complete fallacy. YOU test YOUR ammo in YOUR gun with YOUR optic and YOUR eye and hands.
I don't know if it's true but someone told me the Lake City Winchester m193 is basically the rejects from the military, I don't know what the criteria is that would make them be rejects ,maybe OAL or maybe just inconsistent OAL , who knows and however I will say at least Winchester was the most available during the last ammo shortage, in my area anyway. In my M4A1 I don't have any difficulties making (combat accurate hits) out to 300 with Winchester m193 and just an EOTech red Dot. On a 12-in steel plate.
I don’t think they are rejects, because m193 isn’t a military round. Neither is m855. Typically, whomever runs the lake city plant gets to make what they want to sell after they fulfill their gov obligations. Hornady Frontier is also made at lake city, with Hornady bullets.
Frankly saying , there many variable in the test : temperature , rifle twist , trigger and ammo . With my AR I build myself with DD 1/7 barrel and American eagle 55gr ammo I was getting around 1,3 MOA ( not inches , MOA ) with 62gr Green tips I was getting somewhere between 1,35 to 1.75 MOA . Is it good or is it bad ? For almost 400 dollars barrel I am not impressed , however - 1/7 twist was made to shoot something around 62 grain and up , preferably 77gran . So , you can really win in this game : do you want a cheap ammo to shoot , or do you want the accuracy on the long range shot ? You can’t have both
nice video! ( at lest the second half, i had to skip through the actual shootin!) Im surprised that the Hornady was the best as i figured that was kinda a cheaper version of m193. I would love to see the same test with m855!
I’m pretty fortunate, I stumbled upon Hornady Frontier ammo for my AR pretty early on. It’s far and away the most accurate for the price round through that gun. Every time I go to something else, I’m disappointed. My training ammo is their 55 gr FMJ or BTHP, then to zero in a new optic or anything past 100 yds I go to their 68 gr BTHP. Ruger MPR 18” barrel, Trijicon Credo 1-8X28mm LPVO, Geissele 2-stage Super Tricon trigger. Agreed, Winchester is generally the worst big name brand ammo out there. All of my reman out performs that round/brand. How the mighty have fallen.
Pro tip: Unless you're using a specific BDC reticle, it really doesn't matter that much. Especially if you're running a red dot. If you zero 55 grain, 62 grain or 77 grain to 50 yards with a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, you're still hitting inside a 4 inch target area at 300-400 yards. I used to be like a lot of people getting obsessed with maximized accuracy on a combat rifle, but in reality, it really doesn't matter what ammo you use unless you're using a match grade gun with match grade ammo for a specific purpose like hunting small game or doing extreme long range shooting.
I would love to see this test with 1-8 and 1-9 twist barrels instead of 1-7. I think you would see a big improvement! I get way better results than this test shows with. 16" 1-9 twist barrel.
And yet the very next barrel made in the factory right after his could have different results. Winchester can be pretty dang good. Like decent speed rapid fire a full mag the whole group the size of a fist is possible.
My favorite ammo is Frontier 5.56 55gr BTHP match... In my rifle it shoots 1 inch groups at 100 and for the quality it isn't too expensive... $12.99 a box online. But I need to give their cheap stuff a try too!
Just shot some win m193 today and got 4 inch group at 100. He'll my monarch 55 gr 223 brass did 3.5 inches at 100 today. It was the worst ammo I've used 😂. 16 inch barrel 1/7 twist midlength.
This is the video that I've been hoping someone would make for a long time! I would have done it myself, but I'm a total boomer who can barely turn on a computer, much less make videos. I've had wildly different results from different kinds of 55gr FMJ. Not only that, but I've had wildly different results from different barrels! I have one upper that shoots PMC Bronze (not M193, I know) into sub 2" groups and another upper that can barely keep them on a sheet of paper! Same story with Wolf Gold. Shooting groups off a bench can be boring but it's necessary to figure out what your individual gun likes.
This sort of testing might be a meaningful exercise but if the idea is to discern what shoots best the testing by the USAMU proves it’s Mk262, about .64 MOA at 300 yards. So, to develop marksmanship that’s the round to shoot as it will better reveal shooter/target error rather than non-match grade ammunition. BTW, for grins and giggles I’ve shot just about every .223 and 5.56 loading out there and my results mirror those of this video’s author. I suspect he knows how to shoot and I certainly know I know how to shoot as my record in US Service Rifle Competition proves it, earning the US Distinguished Rifleman Badge and American High Power Rifleman Award in Long-Range.
I think in a test like this it will be all about consistency. The fact there was a storm brewing and wind I'm sure had an impact on the test. You have the consistency of the same shooter and the same rifle. Everything else is pretty much up in the air. For the next test, have two people do the test. No wind on good weather day. Two different rifles and two different shooters. Would be curious about the results of that. With this in mind, it is pretty common knowledge some rifles like to "feed" on some ammo and some? They spit it back out.
I ran the Frontier m193 stuff for a while. It ran very well through my rifle. Someone told me that he did not trust it and I found some supporting info online. I decided to exhaust my supply. I have not really tried the PMC XTAC 55gn FMJBT yet. I have heard and read good things about it.
@@jki808 For one it’s now made by LC, and if you don’t trust Lake City then I don’t know what to tell you! Secondly 2K rounds through my own rifles tells me more than any other source…
People are stupid when it comes to M193. They tend to love the brands that have lower than spec velocity and can’t group worth a shit.. That’s ok though because it leaves the better stuff that is closer to spec for me, hence why I love Frontier.
Something people should consider... Different brands of ammo will shoot differently in different firearms. Brand X may shoot atrocious in person A's rifle but may shoot ragged holes in person B's rifle. Just because Brand X shot great/horrible in someone else's gun is no guarantee it will shoot the same in yours.
I know you are right, however, as a military rifle instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM training it appears most all rack grade ACOG scoped M4’s and A4’s will shoot Mk262 to an MOA at 600 meters from prone sling supported position if the shooter has had some marksmanship training.
Thank you for the video as things go this is a straight forward video I think what would it made your shots more consistent and tighter is having the right ACOG optic I don’t think your running the M4RCO ACOG, is specifically for the M4 carbine because the ballistics are different in that colt 14.5 inch barrel forget that the muzzle flash is welded to the barrel it’s still is a 14.5 inch barrel the ACOG you have I thinks is for the rifle length 5.56 and ballistics are different shooting out of a 20 or 18 barrel. Not many people know that if you gonna run a acog you better use the Acog specific to your barrel length. You could make the Acog you have work but you need to really adjust those windage knobs and have them on point.
@victoria19853 yes different barrel lengths create different holdovers for a certain reticle. But if he is using the center aiming point to shoot groups at 100yds, then it doesn't matter which reticle he has I'm his ACOG.
@@victoria19853 correct. It will make a difference at extended ranges. But he was shooting groups at 100yds. The holdovers in the reticle will not matter. At all. He could have done this test with a standard duplex reticle.
While all of these loads shoot less than 2” 10 shot groups in my rifle. Your data tracks mine with the exception that federal performs just as well as Hornady with similar velocity. PMC was not bad, but winchester was dog shit and out of the 60 rounds I fired I had 2 light primers from winchester.
For the sake of brevity you could try shooting 3-5 rounds rather than 15. My friend you're all over these targets. You shot a few shoots in one area then switch to another before emptying your mag. Hard to get any qualitative idea from that. again try staying with 3-5 rounds for the sake of time. PMC with a 1/7 twist rate looks pretty good. A 1/9 twist rate seems to stabilize the 55 gr bullets a bit better. I've a 1/7 twist barrel on my AR like yours. Thanks for posting this. You've confirmed that I didn't go wrong in ordering the PMC for target practice.
if ballistics matched published material, there would be no difference at all, but that is obviously not the case. some are trying to without using the "published" powder, primer, case, or bullet. and therefore not getting that infamous government contract, which requires around 32500 psi at 72 ft from the muzzle.
Thanks for making video for us. what we have is M193 commercial load since the real M193 specs. For years PMC is knowing to have mild loading compare to other commercial load. However depend on rifle and twist rate some shoot lower velocity ammo better than hotter load.
barrels are like fingerprints, PMC is horrible in my rifle, Winchester isn't much better, and never had Frontier through the barrel for as long as I've owned it and Federal is good but dirty, about to break out a box of IMI to see if its any better and this may just be me but I also pull a bullet off one cartridge, weigh the powder and see if its ball or pellet just curiosity because I do like to see if I can replicate the load.
Please try this test again with a 1:9 twist maybe 1:8......with same ammo..would love to see more optimal twist rates for this ammo....yes 1:7 will shoot fmj 55 grain but to my understanding it was and is not optimal..great video you earned a sub
193 (55g) is a pretty good test but.... try the same brands in a 855 (62g). You may find different results. I normally run PMC 195 but a buddy of mine runs Winchester 855 and is very accurate (about a 1.5 inch spread) He has an IWI Zion 1:8 and I have the Radical Arms 1:7 and my spreads are about 1.7 ish with the 855. Just a thought.
Never waste yer money on Winchester white box, it's been that way for years now, pure junk! Wolf/Tula shoots much better than Winchester 223. No surprise here for me, maybe PMC a little, whenever I shot it I was never impressed, but for bulk ammo FMJ it wasn't bad out of yer rifle.
Dude.. I think you either need to check the rifling in your barrel or get a shooting sled. A 1/7 or 8 twist decent quality barrel’s mechanical accuracy will not, 100% not, shoot 5 inch groups prior to it needing replacement. M193 isn’t Sierra Matchking $2 a round stuff but trust me the army didn’t choose a 5 MOA gun even back in 1982.
1/7 twist rate is not at all problematic for bullets in the 50-55 grain arena. This is proven by US Service Rifle Competitors who frequently shoot 53 grain flat base bullets at the 100 and 200 yard line from a 25 grain charge of H335. This loading is usually a half minute round if the shooter can correctly counter wind.
I am a US Distinguished Rifleman and like the author here I have had dismal 4 to 5 inch results at 100 yards from recent lots of Winchester M855 shot from an FN-15 upper, which is a half minute upper shooting Mk262, even though it is fitted with a non-free float barrel.
You've never shot bulk FMJ ammo either, this is what they shoot like. If You want a FMJ that shoots like normal sp, hp you be looking a long time. The best would be ammo loaded with Hornady FMJ"s.
You should take into account your lack of shooting skills while looking at those groupings
Yes American Eagle xm193 can shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards
He pulled a lot of shots high left. Its a common thing with a lot of shooters. I see it at the range all the time. Especially with pistols.
Very erratic shooting.
Man I have just touched in to the AR platform. Took Winchester white box to the range and had my wife spot for me. Ruger AR556 with irons at 100 yards. She said out loud “that Winchester is garbage”. It was everywhere.
I had Bosnian surplus ammo that shot better.
Hornady Frontier is way better. Thanks for mirroring and confirming my results.
I stick to one 5.56 brand when done testing because different brands have higher or lower fps and all other brands won't be zeroed to the brand you zeroed with.
Three of my 20" ARs love Winchester/Lake City 55gr M193. One inch groups at 100 yds are easy. OTOH all three have Wilson barrels. Wilson makes a lot of AR barrels. My most accurate AR with M193 is a Green Mountain 20". I have shot several 1/2" groups at 100 yds with it. It is all about barrel quality sports fans.
My experience at 200 meters, Frontier M193 comes in at 2 MOA, while Federal is consistently 4 MOA. Never used PMC but will try it.
You’ve had a year, how you liking PMC?
Good information, thanks for making this video. Not too surprised about the Winchester. Their ammo has always performed pretty poorly across the board in my experience, and I have refused to purchase their ammo in years. I really like PMC x Tac and get about similar performance from my rifle as you did.
It’s funny because I did a similar test with mostly the same ammo cartridges, but with the following changes:
- PMC Bronze (BT) instead of XTAC
- I also tested Monarch, Academy’s house brand that I believe is made by PPU
- I shot 1 of each round in sequential order, 5 rounds each (so 25 shots total)
I had very similar results. The key take away was that the Winchester white box really was total ass. And it’s not even the cheapest! Never buying it again.
Frontier was the most accurate for me, but just barely-as the Academy Monarch/PPU ammo shot nearly as accurately (and it was the CHEAPEST ammo I shot!). The PMC Bronze was ok, way better than the Winchester, but I thought it would perform at the top (but didn’t). Still, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it again.
I’m too stocking up on Hornady, while have bad experiences with the Winchesters. Love this video guide and I’ll be stocking up the Hornady
Pmc xtac 55g is my bulk go-to for a min. Turners has solid deals and I'm grouping bout 1.5" with 1:8 16". Hornady is better, but it does fluctuates in price alot and can get expensive for my bulk shooting.
Surprised imi 5.56 193 not tested. Had great consistency with it with accuracy and fps usually at around 3100 fps out of 16 inch barrel.
IMI is garbage
Mossad agent detected
but they all hit im relatively the same place right? regardless of brand. It looks to me like the more you shot, the better your groups were getting.
From my testing there's 5 "true" M193 choices. Those are Federal, PPU, Winchester, Hornady Frontier and my favorite, IMI. Everything else I've tested falls well below 3k fps out of a 16" barrel and have rather shit accuracy. The current lot of IMI & Frontier that I have are actually showing 3100 fps averages at muzzle and anywhere from 1.45 - 2.2moa. Last wolf gold lot I tested was horrible, couldn't get better than a 3.6moa, never had any luck with that junk.
Don’t Forget CBC M-193 😮😊👍🏼
@@chrischiampo7647 isn't that essentially magtech? I tested a newer lot of the stuff and it did pretty well through my 16", I believe it was getting like 3010fps muzzle but the spread was very low which helped with groups.
@@TerminalM193 Yes Your Right I Got 3250 FPS Average Thru My 20” M16A4 Clone 1:7 and Real Good Accuracy It’s Loaded To True M193 Specs 😀
Use a proper 1:12 twist barrel and watch your groups tighten by an MOA.
Winchester over Pmc? You’re kidding right
I have this hunch that manufacturers large and small, ever since covid, have been just cranking rounds- QC take a back seat.
I would like to add for those who care, pmc primer pockets are way out of spec, i usually have to put a lot of work into pmc when reloading
How do you figure they’re out of spec? Most of them are crimped and require you to swage them before putting a new primer in but I’ve loaded plenty of them
@@TheLibertyCompanyLLC i usually need to widen the whole primer pocket, not just remove crimp, had some seat a little crooked too.
@@magnusskipton7067 I think your swager isn’t set up correctly. I use PMC brass all the time and just use a Dillon swager on it. If a primer won’t guy in, I turn it in a circle until it does. After the 2nd firing they all go in smooth
I just prepped a bunch I picked up that the guy next to me left behind at the range. They swaged easy and the primers went in fine.
If I’m not mistaken, the military typically uses the M856 62GR round out of their M4’s. They’re slowly switching over to the M855A1 which has similar accuracy to the original version.
But if that is a 1:7 Twist barrel It will probably see better accuracy with 62GR+ weight ammo.
Doesn’t matter too much what anyone else tells you about ammo.
YOU need to try and test a bunch of brands, and see what shoots well out of Your barrel, and just stock up on that.
Different barrels do better with different ammo. I don’t know why. It’s just the way the universe works.
I agree
yeah it's weird. My rifle doesn't like the Winchester M193, but it loves the Winchester 62 grain FMJ (NOT green tip, just solid lead). I'm in the process of finding a 55 grain that it likes since the 62 grain non green tip is kind of hard to find.
Stupid take. One person doesn’t have the ability to go out and test thousands of rounds sold every hour. I’m sick of Winchester because the brass is very dirty from the factory and I’ve heard others have had issues as well.
Working as a group to help make decisions is the only way to do this. You can’t reliably trust your life to something that only you have tried. Use your head instead of commenting nonsense that makes you feel good.
Completely agree. The barrel is metal with a lot of variations in fabrication and materials. Even if you use the exact same fabrication and materials and have high quality control. Guess what. You are STILL going to have variances in the metal. Then the rifling. Differences in rifling? You bet. Same twist have differences? Yes. Then the round. Does each and every one have the same amount of powder specks in it? No it doesn't. Do all the bullets weigh exactly the same? I think there would be some variance there. So many variables you can't get them all together.
@@Bigbossman12624What? Dude, this has nothing to do with affordability or community results.
You can take two IDENTICAL barrels from the SAME manufacturer and get wildly different results with the EXACT same ammo from the EXACT same lot. You CANNOT go off of what Billy Bob says the best ammo in the world is with his particular gun and take it as absolute truth. That’s just complete fallacy. YOU test YOUR ammo in YOUR gun with YOUR optic and YOUR eye and hands.
I don't know if it's true but someone told me the Lake City Winchester m193 is basically the rejects from the military, I don't know what the criteria is that would make them be rejects ,maybe OAL or maybe just inconsistent OAL , who knows and however I will say at least Winchester was the most available during the last ammo shortage, in my area anyway. In my M4A1 I don't have any difficulties making (combat accurate hits) out to 300 with Winchester m193 and just an EOTech red Dot. On a 12-in steel plate.
I've heard that about m855 from Lake City. I don't think the military uses M193 anymore.
I don’t think they are rejects, because m193 isn’t a military round. Neither is m855. Typically, whomever runs the lake city plant gets to make what they want to sell after they fulfill their gov obligations. Hornady Frontier is also made at lake city, with Hornady bullets.
Frankly saying , there many variable in the test : temperature , rifle twist , trigger and ammo . With my AR I build myself with DD 1/7 barrel and American eagle 55gr ammo I was getting around 1,3 MOA ( not inches , MOA ) with 62gr Green tips I was getting somewhere between 1,35 to 1.75 MOA . Is it good or is it bad ? For almost 400 dollars barrel I am not impressed , however - 1/7 twist was made to shoot something around 62 grain and up , preferably 77gran . So , you can really win in this game : do you want a cheap ammo to shoot , or do you want the accuracy on the long range shot ? You can’t have both
nice video! ( at lest the second half, i had to skip through the actual shootin!) Im surprised that the Hornady was the best as i figured that was kinda a cheaper version of m193. I would love to see the same test with m855!
I’m pretty fortunate, I stumbled upon Hornady Frontier ammo for my AR pretty early on. It’s far and away the most accurate for the price round through that gun. Every time I go to something else, I’m disappointed. My training ammo is their 55 gr FMJ or BTHP, then to zero in a new optic or anything past 100 yds I go to their 68 gr BTHP. Ruger MPR 18” barrel, Trijicon Credo 1-8X28mm LPVO, Geissele 2-stage Super Tricon trigger. Agreed, Winchester is generally the worst big name brand ammo out there. All of my reman out performs that round/brand. How the mighty have fallen.
Pro tip: Unless you're using a specific BDC reticle, it really doesn't matter that much. Especially if you're running a red dot. If you zero 55 grain, 62 grain or 77 grain to 50 yards with a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, you're still hitting inside a 4 inch target area at 300-400 yards. I used to be like a lot of people getting obsessed with maximized accuracy on a combat rifle, but in reality, it really doesn't matter what ammo you use unless you're using a match grade gun with match grade ammo for a specific purpose like hunting small game or doing extreme long range shooting.
I would love to see the same test with m855!
I would love to see this test with 1-8 and 1-9 twist barrels instead of 1-7. I think you would see a big improvement! I get way better results than this test shows with. 16" 1-9 twist barrel.
Thanks man I panicked when I saw my AR shot a 4in group with the Winchester !
And yet the very next barrel made in the factory right after his could have different results. Winchester can be pretty dang good. Like decent speed rapid fire a full mag the whole group the size of a fist is possible.
My favorite ammo is Frontier 5.56 55gr BTHP match... In my rifle it shoots 1 inch groups at 100 and for the quality it isn't too expensive... $12.99 a box online. But I need to give their cheap stuff a try too!
Excellent video keep them coming
I like you have found that Hornady & X-TAC are great inexpensive 5.56. 😎
Is the barrel a 14.5 that was pinned and welded to 16" or is it a 16" with a p&w a2?
Just shot some win m193 today and got 4 inch group at 100. He'll my monarch 55 gr 223 brass did 3.5 inches at 100 today. It was the worst ammo I've used 😂. 16 inch barrel 1/7 twist midlength.
This is the video that I've been hoping someone would make for a long time! I would have done it myself, but I'm a total boomer who can barely turn on a computer, much less make videos. I've had wildly different results from different kinds of 55gr FMJ. Not only that, but I've had wildly different results from different barrels! I have one upper that shoots PMC Bronze (not M193, I know) into sub 2" groups and another upper that can barely keep them on a sheet of paper! Same story with Wolf Gold. Shooting groups off a bench can be boring but it's necessary to figure out what your individual gun likes.
This sort of testing might be a meaningful exercise but if the idea is to discern what shoots best the testing by the USAMU proves it’s Mk262, about .64 MOA at 300 yards. So, to develop marksmanship that’s the round to shoot as it will better reveal shooter/target error rather than non-match grade ammunition. BTW, for grins and giggles I’ve shot just about every .223 and 5.56 loading out there and my results mirror those of this video’s author. I suspect he knows how to shoot and I certainly know I know how to shoot as my record in US Service Rifle Competition proves it, earning the US Distinguished Rifleman Badge and American High Power Rifleman Award in Long-Range.
I think in a test like this it will be all about consistency. The fact there was a storm brewing and wind I'm sure had an impact on the test. You have the consistency of the same shooter and the same rifle. Everything else is pretty much up in the air. For the next test, have two people do the test. No wind on good weather day. Two different rifles and two different shooters. Would be curious about the results of that. With this in mind, it is pretty common knowledge some rifles like to "feed" on some ammo and some? They spit it back out.
Federal, Frontier and Winchester all loaded at LC
Funny, I consistently get two-inch groups with the Winchester ammo in a cheap Radical Firearms RF-15.
Same luck out of Winchester and herters in 5.56 and 9mm. Both junk to me in several platforms and pistols. Great content by the way👍🇺🇸
The "X" in XM193 means that the ammo is not certified "mil spec". Although I don't believe the military has used M193 since the mid-80's.
Subbed off of this video. My 1/9 AR loves the PMC X-TAC, but to me it's obvious you were trying to be fair... About to view your "Part 2" vid
Great content! Thank you.
I ran the Frontier m193 stuff for a while. It ran very well through my rifle. Someone told me that he did not trust it and I found some supporting info online. I decided to exhaust my supply. I have not really tried the PMC XTAC 55gn FMJBT yet. I have heard and read good things about it.
Pmc m193 load them hot 🔥
That was a long time back on the Frontier, and I like hot M193. If you want the watered down stuff stick to PMC and other not spec M193.
@@427SuperSnake1you’re telling me frontier ammo doesn’t blow up anymore? Source?
@@jki808 For one it’s now made by LC, and if you don’t trust Lake City then I don’t know what to tell you! Secondly 2K rounds through my own rifles tells me more than any other source…
I have had the same result with Winchester
People are stupid when it comes to M193. They tend to love the brands that have lower than spec velocity and can’t group worth a shit.. That’s ok though because it leaves the better stuff that is closer to spec for me, hence why I love Frontier.
I love the hornandy i have wolf's now haven't taken them out yet
Something people should consider...
Different brands of ammo will shoot differently in different firearms.
Brand X may shoot atrocious in person A's rifle but may shoot ragged holes in person B's rifle.
Just because Brand X shot great/horrible in someone else's gun is no guarantee it will shoot the same in yours.
I know you are right, however, as a military rifle instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM training it appears most all rack grade ACOG scoped M4’s and A4’s will shoot Mk262 to an MOA at 600 meters from prone sling supported position if the shooter has had some marksmanship training.
I think the problem was your target was shaking.
I shoot Winchester in my rock river 1x9 chrome lined,and get a lot better groups than you get.
New manufactured M193 has been neutered, a lot slower than older M193.
Yep. Commercial m193 is not the same as real 193
That's racist af
@@DinoNucci you like your own comments a lot or?
What’s the twist rate on your barrel?
Thank you for the video as things go this is a straight forward video I think what would it made your shots more consistent and tighter is having the right ACOG optic I don’t think your running the M4RCO ACOG, is specifically for the M4 carbine because the ballistics are different in that colt 14.5 inch barrel forget that the muzzle flash is welded to the barrel it’s still is a 14.5 inch barrel the ACOG you have I thinks is for the rifle length 5.56 and ballistics are different shooting out of a 20 or 18 barrel. Not many people know that if you gonna run a acog you better use the Acog specific to your barrel length. You could make the Acog you have work but you need to really adjust those windage knobs and have them on point.
None of that matters at 100yds if he is using the center aiming point
@@chatnasty You could argue that with the people at Trijicon. Different barrel lengths = different ballistics results.
@victoria19853 yes different barrel lengths create different holdovers for a certain reticle. But if he is using the center aiming point to shoot groups at 100yds, then it doesn't matter which reticle he has I'm his ACOG.
@@chatnasty 100 yards might not make a difference in your opinion but it those makes a difference specially at ranges over 100 yards.
@@victoria19853 correct. It will make a difference at extended ranges. But he was shooting groups at 100yds. The holdovers in the reticle will not matter. At all. He could have done this test with a standard duplex reticle.
While all of these loads shoot less than 2” 10 shot groups in my rifle. Your data tracks mine with the exception that federal performs just as well as Hornady with similar velocity. PMC was not bad, but winchester was dog shit and out of the 60 rounds I fired I had 2 light primers from winchester.
For the sake of brevity you could try shooting 3-5 rounds rather than 15. My friend you're all over these targets. You shot a few shoots in one area then switch to another before emptying your mag. Hard to get any qualitative idea from that. again try staying with 3-5 rounds for the sake of time. PMC with a 1/7 twist rate looks pretty good. A 1/9 twist rate seems to stabilize the 55 gr bullets a bit better. I've a 1/7 twist barrel on my AR like yours. Thanks for posting this. You've confirmed that I didn't go wrong in ordering the PMC for target practice.
did you let the barrel cool between ammo changes?
Love Frontier Ammo.
Lol 😆 now try on a non windy day. In case you're unaware winchester runs the lake city facility for a damn good reason. They make damn good ammo.
Your Hornady fr200 or fr100? The 200 was lake city loaded and now im seeing mostly fr100 which is Hornady loaded on ivi Canadian brass.
I like to stockpile Winchester now that they're the ones loading Lake City
Dude you need to get a better barrel. None of my AR's shoot as badly as yours does. For the record M193 is designed and optimized for 20" barrel's.
Now Do a Comparison Video on M855 Varieties 😀😀 Please and Thank You
Send him some
@@DinoNucci I’ve Got Several Kinds I’d Do That Just Don’t Know How Does He Have a PO Box ?
if ballistics matched published material, there would be no difference at all, but that is obviously not the case. some are trying to without using the "published" powder, primer, case, or bullet. and therefore not getting that infamous government contract, which requires around 32500 psi at 72 ft from the muzzle.
Thats a 14.5" barrel, not a 16".
Thanks for making video for us.
what we have is M193 commercial load since the real M193 specs.
For years PMC is knowing to have mild loading compare to other commercial load. However depend on rifle and twist rate some shoot lower velocity ammo better than hotter load.
barrels are like fingerprints, PMC is horrible in my rifle, Winchester isn't much better, and never had Frontier through the barrel for as long as I've owned it and Federal is good but dirty, about to break out a box of IMI to see if its any better and this may just be me but I also pull a bullet off one cartridge, weigh the powder and see if its ball or pellet just curiosity because I do like to see if I can replicate the load.
White box is loaded week is a government facility
Is hornady frontier discontinued?
What is your Burrell length and rifling
where did you buy that PEQ15?
Stay away from that frontier. I’ve seen a lot of exploded uppers from that shit.
The PMC is the best out of all these in my experience
Lol stop
@@DinoNucci not my fault you can’t afford the good stuff
@@ramzankadyrov6035 your own family dislikes you.
@@DinoNucci ahh yes, stereotypical projection. It’s becoming clear. Lol
@@ramzankadyrov6035 wrong
Duh, huh mil spec duh duh du uhh huh duh still don't know which is better.......
Winchester ammo sucks out of my rifle too 62 and 55
Please try this test again with a 1:9 twist maybe 1:8......with same ammo..would love to see more optimal twist rates for this ammo....yes 1:7 will shoot fmj 55 grain but to my understanding it was and is not optimal..great video you earned a sub
55gn needs a much slower 1:12 for optimal accuracy
@@blackhawk7r221 wrong
193 (55g) is a pretty good test but.... try the same brands in a 855 (62g). You may find different results. I normally run PMC 195 but a buddy of mine runs Winchester 855 and is very accurate (about a 1.5 inch spread) He has an IWI Zion 1:8 and I have the Radical Arms 1:7 and my spreads are about 1.7 ish with the 855. Just a thought.
Send him some
Winchester has been terrible in 223 even indoors. PMC was much better
Never waste yer money on Winchester white box, it's been that way for years now, pure junk!
Wolf/Tula shoots much better than Winchester 223. No surprise here for me, maybe PMC a little, whenever I shot it I was never impressed, but for bulk ammo FMJ it wasn't bad out of yer rifle.
No IMI?
The Winchester 556 M193 is the closest to real M193. This is BS hahahaha
Dude.. I think you either need to check the rifling in your barrel or get a shooting sled. A 1/7 or 8 twist decent quality barrel’s mechanical accuracy will not, 100% not, shoot 5 inch groups prior to it needing replacement. M193 isn’t Sierra Matchking $2 a round stuff but trust me the army didn’t choose a 5 MOA gun even back in 1982.
If you are using 55gn 193 in tight twist 1:7 barrel, it is being very overspun and you will lose about 2 MOA. 55 gn wants 1:12.
Wrong
There are numerous tests out there that show that 55 fmj is fine in 1:7.
There are numerous tests out there that show that 55 fmj is fine in 1:7.
M193 was to be used in a 1 in 12 twist. Try testing it with the right twist.
1/7 twist rate is not at all problematic for bullets in the 50-55 grain arena. This is proven by US Service Rifle Competitors who frequently shoot 53 grain flat base bullets at the 100 and 200 yard line from a 25 grain charge of H335. This loading is usually a half minute round if the shooter can correctly counter wind.
Yes, with match bullets. If the twist is not correct, any flaws in the bullet will come out. @@charlesludwig9173
My take all junk or your rifle is not very good.
You should at a minimum should get 2 MOA IMHO
I am a US Distinguished Rifleman and like the author here I have had dismal 4 to 5 inch results at 100 yards from recent lots of Winchester M855 shot from an FN-15 upper, which is a half minute upper shooting Mk262, even though it is fitted with a non-free float barrel.
Maybe you just can't shoot
You mom sure know I can
You've never shot bulk FMJ ammo either, this is what they shoot like. If You want a FMJ that shoots like normal sp, hp you be looking a long time. The best would be ammo loaded with Hornady FMJ"s.
Looks like the guy is a bad shot. Captain tacticool probably didn’t loctite his optic either.
im about to switch my CZcams name to Captain Tacticool now lmaooo
Ur mom
So they’re all terrible
Blaming ammo for your groupings is pretty sad.
Who’s filming the target part? Michael j fox?
Comment section= "Blah blah blah blaaahhhhhh".
Shoot what is best for YOUR rifle and YOUR wallet. End.
Q3131 is where it's at. 3242fps all day long.