The Ultimate Undertale & Deltarune Iceberg CORRECTED! - What Chapter 2 CHANGED!
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2021
- Deltarune Chapter 2 changed up a lot! But it didn’t change nearly everything. In this video, I’ll be going over what Chapter 2 changed about the previous iceberg!
The original iceberg:
icebergcharts.com/i/Ultimate_...
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - What Chapter 2 Changed
23:58 - Outro
Sources:
docs.google.com/document/d/1J...
Prunsel creator noticing my iceberg video!:
TammyTammycat/sta...
What is Ralsei hiding from us?:
• Video
#Undertale #Deltarune #Icebergs #IcebergChart #IcebergExplained - Hry
Not gonna lie, the conversation between King and Queen is adorable
yeah
heheh... kingy wingy lol
Indeed
I adore cashews
That’s a husband and wife relationship for ya!
And funny
Chatter: "YOU are manipulating Noelle"
Me who didnt do the snowgrave route because i dont want to be guilty about it: Pathetic
Christ the knight. Ready for war
Me watching people do snowgrave route but not doing it because I feel guilty about ruining fictional worlds/characters
Same lmao
Yeah same
*me having panic attacks during the mouse puzzles cuz I don't want Noelle to be hurt*
...yeah I don't think I'm cut out for Snowgrave 😅
People forget that even Berdly was going to create a dark fountain, before being stopped by Ralsei.
Enough will and determination can form one, and maybe Kris just took that information and applied it.
Finally someone who said it, I think the true reason he did it was to prove to Undyne the existence of Dark Worlds and also to get more info about the knight.
My personal take is that Kris sees these "adventures" as the only way they have to make Friends
In Ch 1 they befriend the school bully and makes a lot of friends
And in Ch 2 they actually befriend the unsufferabme nerd from their class and rekindles their distanced friendshio with their childhood friend
Kris probably thinks these Dark World adventures are the only way they have to make new friends and help others, and possibly they have something in mind for Toriel and maybe Undyne too, and think as long as they seal the Dark Fountain in the end every time, The Roaring wont happen
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard that’s a actually pretty good theory
@@AE68961 *they
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard thats really well said!
During the Snowgrave route, notice how the option that breaks the run becomes more and more desperate, first apologizing and saying they will do the puzzle, then being like "Let's do it together!", and eventually "I'm protecting her from YOU!". You have to keep pressing Proceed because Kris doesn't want to hurt Noelle, they are doing all they can to fight against you. To protect her from you. And of course at the end of the Snowgrave route, if you check Kris's stats in the Light World, there is a question mark, further proving that it is *not* in Kris's nature to kill or manipulate others into killing.
"I'm protecting her from YOU!" (markiplier pointing image)
I just checked and i just don't see any question mark at Kris' stats, i'm playing the 1.0 version of the game so it might be that. The only change i found was that Kri had gotten a new title in the dark world
Okay, I'm going to list out my entire theory for the end game of Deltarune's story. It's a bit long, so get ready.
In my opinion, Noelle's sister Dess is the key to the entire story. It's implied that her full name is December, and something happened to her. Some people have assumed she is dead, but I don't think that's true. When looking around Noelle's room in the cyber world you can find a calendar that has "every month is the last month and every day is the 26th." Given how we've seen that Queen tends to misinterpret the kids' search history, we can assume Noelle was repeatedly searching the term "December Holiday" over and over again, Holiday being her last name. When someone you know is dead you don't really search their name on the internet over and over, but if someone you know is missing that would make a lot more sense.
I think December is missing, and I think she disappeared while Kris, Noelle, Asriel and Dess were exploring near the old bunker. We know the four of them explored in the forest by the graveyard, and when looking at Spamton's shack with Noelle, a building which looks a lot like the bunker, she says it feels nostalgic. Plus there's the fact that the bunker seems to be a local legend among the kids in town, and that legend specifically involves Kris.
(As a side note, I think Asgore lost his job specifically because of the fact that he couldn't find Dess. If you're the police chief in a small town and you fail to find the mayor's missing kid, I don't think you'll have much of a future in that career)
Now onto the bunker. I'm not sure who is exactly in the bunker, whether it's Gaster, an extention of the player, or something else entirely, but I do believe that there is some form of dark fountain inside. The kids are exploring around there and something goes wrong. Either they break open the door or it opens itself, and Dess falls into the dark world. I believe Kris is the only one who sees this happen, and what leads me to this is the fact that in both chapters you have the option to go to Undyne and report the fact that these dark portals are popping up. Kris specifically says that "People might fall in." Undyne of course doesn't believe you, but that's probably exactly how it went last time.
And to go even further with this, I think that Kris did not leave that encounter unscathed themselves. The opening of Deltarune when you make your vessel, the background seems very similar to a dark fountain, almost as if we are currently in a dark world. In the process of making your vessel, it shows you the red heart and calls it "your" soul. We know that human souls come in a variety of colors, and we know that the Soul inside Kris right now is under our control. So, if this is *our* soul, where is Kris'?
And on the topic of souls, they are treated very differently in Deltarune when compared to Undertale. In Undertale, the entire goal of the monsters was to take your Soul. It was seen as something of limitless power, something desirable. But in Deltarune, there's none of that. The only character who makes reference to taking your soul is Spamton, a character who is undeniably connected to whoever is in the Bunker, whether that is Gaster or something else. This could imply that whatever is in the bunker *also* wants to take a human soul.
So here's my final thoughts on how things went. The four kids are exploring near the bunker. Noelle gets scared, and Asriel goes to give her his jacket(something Noelle said he did often). While the two are distracted, Dess gets near the bunker and something happens, pulling Dess into a dark world. Kris sees this and tries to help her, and in the process they are attacked by something that either just wants a human soul for itself, or wants to implant a new soul into a human so they can control the human. By the time Asriel and Noelle notice, Dess has vanished and Kris is likely on the ground and struggling to move, as we've seen how hard it is for them to function without a Soul. Kris tells their father, the police chief, what they saw but no one believes them. A couple years go by and Dess is never found.
Kris never forgets what they saw and begins to do research. Since we know they did occult studies with Catti, they likely got help there. Whether the occult was something they always had an interest in or it was only after the incident is unclear, but either way they studied and figured out how to create more Dark Fountains. They then set out to create multiple Dark Fountains around town to try and understand how they worked and to find Dess, all while learning how to fight against and temporarily remove the soul that had been placed within them.
As for where Dess is now, I believe she is in a place between places. I think she is the character who is in the code, and what's more: I think she is the one who sings the song at the end of Chapter 1. Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark.
That’s well though out
wow i don't even know what to say lmao this is such a great theory
It is kind of a crazy theory since we have so little information and we don't even have a third of the game, but I still really like this theory
That's a really good theory about Ness and I do agree with most of it
though, I don't think that Gaster (if the one in the bunker) would want your soul. After all, there is proof that he's the first voice at the vessel creator (and in Toby's tweets) and the same voice asks you if you want to persist in the game over. And we know that returning to the save point is only doable with determination (you know, the determination extraction machine, made by gaster, the blueprints, etc) that he has but cannot use
Also in a long road with buttons noelle spells word "December" and in one moment there we see her as a child.
Plus in berdly's story about him, noelle fails in spelling word "December"
I like your theory, it sounds pretty neat
On the “Ralsei is untrustworthy” part, it is important to note that Ralsei and Lancer/Rouxls are from two different dark world/fountains. Ralsei says that his fountain is made of pure darkness and thus can host anyone without them turning to stone. This may also mean a darkner from that fountain could survive in any other fountain as well.
Exactly! I've been trying to tell people this for ages!
Good theory
Only that he's the only darkener from said fountain (unless the dummy is too?)
@@theclothpuppeteer8869 that is another good thing to note. It doesn’t necessarily mean that What I said isn’t that the case, but it does mean that there is no known way to test it. I would personally say the fact everyone can survive in the ‘pure’ dark world would probably be evidence enough to suggest the other way around as well, but unless other denizens of that dark world appear we don’t have enough evidence to prove either way. It also could suggest that Ralsei is possibly a lightener, seeing as he arrived behind Suzy and Kris, and the only entrance we’ve seen in that direction was from the light world. But the one I listed above is the one I believe most plausible.
@@evanis012 I'm not denying your assumption, but as per now the only known darkener from there is fluffyman.
Also I will deny the possibility of Ralsei being a lightener, but he might be a mixture of both?
My take on the Ralsei "Lets think about what Susie and Noelle are doing" scene is that Ralsei is creating an opportunity to ask Kris if they're being controlled or not. Ralsei throughout chapter 1 would always stress that Kris' choices mattered, and that this is important. Perhaps, the human making choices is integral to stopping the roaring or whatever. Ralsei is wrong about Kris' choices mattering, its the players, but Ralsei doesn't know this until he gets a chance to actually ask Kris about it. When he says "And that's why...", thats not him explaining something, thats his reaction to a revelation, and its not the end of a sentence, since Susie falls on him before he can finish.
really well put and interesting!! aa
Ralsei doesn't say "And that's why...", he says "So that's why, Okay Kris?"
i think ralsei is telling KRIS the truth, but not the player. and knows that, should the player find out, they would erase the save
Honestly Ralsei surviving outside of his own dark world makes some sense. He’s born from the pure dark fountain. The same one that allows every darkner to live in the castle town.
Ralsei isn't a darkner
@@godhimself688 They literally explained how it makes sense he can stay in other dark worlds. Any darkner can stay in the pure dark fountain's world, and this highlights how Ralsei is indeed a special case as he's FROM this pure dark world.
In addition, some old proof that he's a darkner is that his sprites are colored - this trait is only carried by darkners, as lightner sprites are purely black and white. I don't know how people still miss this.
Unless this is the implication that he is some third entity - which could probably be a case, but there's literally nothing supporting that as far as I know.
@@Eurasian_ you mean evidence? That isn't proof also any proof that he is from the pure fountain like OK really asking I've heard people say it but never seen it in part 1 or 2. I must've skipped over it if it is a thing
@@godhimself688 ralsei is not a lightner, hes a darkner
@@snqoqo no
Kris isn't the "KNIGHT"
But they could be a "SQUIRE"
i hope thats canon
@@silentchatterbox52 same honestly.
That could actually explain Kris' Dark World armor. In terms of body protection it could be... Way better.
But, if he were a squire, who traditionally weren't really given the greatest equipment, it could make way more sense why Kris' armor is missing a few components.
That was an interesting theory. Plus, Kris's armor looks more like a squire than a knight.
i dont think Kris might be the Knight all together. remember chapter 1's "cliffhanger" was very misleading as well. It could be that
I think its way more likely that Kris just learned how to open Dark Fountains himself. INFACT The Queen wanted to Use Noelle to open a Dark Fountain in the same exact way which she explained exactly in detail to him and Noelle. The reason why he did what he did is very likely that just like Susie he found these adventures to be very cool and thanks to these fountains opening they had a lotta fun. Its just like in Chapter 1 where people thought that Kris went on to kill somebody, or that it was just a placeholder cutscene for the Demo. While the real reason was a lot simpler.
Meanwhile The Knight seems to be an entity of greater power and awarness than Kris. Implied that any contact with him makes an individual self-aware that they are in the game. Whatever he's doing makes them go insane and obssessed. Kris doesnt have that kind of power, because he's a pawn himself. OUR pawn that we control in the game.
@@EpicGamer-fl7fn the misleading cant be happening forever
its probably just that because toby wrote the story after chapter 1 and he cant just remove a scene from a published game he just made it a joke
6:03 After the arcade game you can either choose "perish" or "bosom". If you choose "bosom" Ralsei will blush. Maybe Kris was supposed to blush as well?
or maybe it was kris blushing out of embarrassment for having their self-esteem crushed by not being able to reach the controls
@@lysandre1861 I wish I would blush everytime my self-esteem gets crushed. At least I would look cute and not like a miserable creature...
“It means tity”
It could’ve also been for when the Fun Gang worked together to play the game.
@@benblock_ "YEAH WE KNOW!!"
I like to think that “Your choices don’t matter” is about Kris.
it is NOT about the player.
even beyond snowgrave, it’s obvious that the soul, you, are in direct control over kris, except for when they take action on their own. Kris is (mostly) powerless but to do as we command. Kris can’t make choices. We can.
So its kris’s choice that matters instead or am i stupid?
@@yusufthecatwithagun Your choices matter, Kris' choices don't.
@@dronz3881 yea
“No one can choose who they are in this world. “
But others can choose for you as shown by snowgrave
Interesting take on it, what I like to think is more pointing towards the fact that; regardless of your choices, the full game will always end the same way.
Ok, no.
Mettaton hiring Muffet isn't a mystery. During your fight at the end of the CORE, before turning EX, he straight up says "I WAS THE ONE WHO HIRED EVERYONE TO KILL YOU."
Flowey would have no reason to hire someone to kill you, as he knows full well that Muffet wouldn't be able to kill you. No one is. He knows Frisk is immortal, so why bother?
@@starless267 Premiered TV-WISE. He's never shown EX on TV but we know for a FACT that he's used it before.
During Undyne's hangout if you inspect the piano she'll say something along the lines of "One time one of Alphys' friends came over and all he did was sit seductively on the piano, feeding himself grapes."
This is undoubtably Mettaton, because the only other friends Alphys has are Catty and Bratty.
Mettaton doesn't have a mouth in his box form, so he had to be in his EX form in order to do this.
He was probably going around the underground hiring people to kill you in his EX form as to not get recognized and spoil the show for any bystanders.
@@stef__an didnt official art work come out showing mettaton in his square form on the piano? Also, undyne doesnt have a tv, so she wouldnt have recognized him. The feeding himself grapes thing was a joke thing. How would a robot eat anyways? If he's a ghost, that runs on magic and electricity (which we know from his battery depleting), why would he eat AT ALL. Also, the line about transforming wouldnt make sense either, since if he was going around in his ex form, why would he change back while still in view of muffet? And lastly, no one ever mentions muffet after the fight, not alphys, nor papyrus or undyne, the people literally watching the show from their tv. You'd think you'd at least get a tweet from alphys about how the fight was weird or something. But we get nothing showing us what happens in the spider nest. Its completely private, while the core was done for show. Also, how would mtt reach his switch? He doesnt seen to change after that battle until post time skip in the credits. So how would he change? And the last thing that would imply "incognito mode" is a pink robot with amazing legs.
@@funtimegamer8733
> didnt official art work come out showing mettaton in his square form on the piano?
official art isn't canon art, toby only considers the game itself canon. plus most official art is just really good fanart approved by fangamer
> Also, undyne doesnt have a tv, so she wouldnt have recognized him
and she... doesn't. she just says "alphys' friend"
And since every other argument is about the logic of it, I can't exactly argue that. Indeed, most of it doesn't make much sense, but Mettaton fits the role WAY better than Flowey or Gaster.
@@stef__an mettaton is mettaton. He doesnt need a mouth to eat grapes
Metatton saying "I WAS THE ONE WHO HIRED EVERYONE TO KILL YOU" would technically be a correct statement on his end if he didn't know about Muffet fighting Frisk.
Either that or this line was written before Muffet was added to the game thanks to Kickstarter and this line from Mettaton was simply never revised
I'll say, the Blushing Kris thing might've been them being embarrassed from losing.
i'd say it'd be when you answer "bossom" to the queen
@@grapejuicesoda4429 or when Ralsei hugs Kris after the Spamton NEO! fight.
Or after being embraced by Susie during the arcade fight (let me dream)
@@miavalentine8638 down bad
@@miavalentine8638 pog
Honestly, at this point, I feel like the "Ralsei is suspicious" thing is going to end in a bait and switch where it turns out that Ralsei was either not hiding anything or was hiding stuff for justifiable reasons. Like, the game kind of goes out of its way to subvert your expectations in many ways, I think playing Ralsei's suspicious qualities straight and making him secretly evil would just be, like. Really dumb and boring
Okay i have reasons to support this
Azreal was the name of an angel of the bible which Asriel was based of
Ralsei could be based on "razeal" whos the "Angel of wisdom" who has the titles of "keeper of secrets" (perassumbly god's secrets) and "ruler of the 2nd heaven" hes also the writer of the "book of magic"
If Ralsei's story matchs the angel in any way, then Ralsei will try to help humanity reach greater heights just to be punished for it (think Prometheus giving fire to humanity type stuff)
Specifically, the angel tried to do something without god's notice,
Ralsei could be trying to do something under our's
@@twinkiesmaster69 Oh that's really cool! Good catch!
I agree. The first time I noticed ralsei being weird was when he didnt mention anything about the fountain in castle town. Like, bro, why dont we deal this one? Why cant we enter the castle? Chapter two explains that. This time around, he explains why we have to close the fountains AT ALL. It feels more like Ralsei is a reflection of the awkward and relatable kris, since kris seems to be a bit of an odd ball, go has trouble making friends and has trouble with staying organized. It also isnt said, but kris seems a little... out of place in the dreemurr family. His side of the room is empty, meanwhile asriel's got a damn collection of trophy's, making it look like kris is not very involved in the towns affairs. Everywhere, people usually ask about asriel, and rarely kris. So, I think ralsei might be trying to be more like asriel then kris, despite being like kris at heart.
I think it’s gonna be a bait and switch, where Ralsei had all of the info in the manual and just thought you read it.
In the cut manual you can actually see that the main fountain gives him form. I imagine he doesn’t want you to close the main one, because that would end his existence, and would stop there from being a home all darkness could go to. This home doesn’t seem to disrupt the balance of light and dark, because it’s only a singular fountain. So, I think he may be acting in good intention, but be withholding information. I certainly hope he doesn’t get turned into a bad guy.
Oh toby you classic dog :)
Another weird thing that i found about Ralsei is how he reacts after Spamton NEO, he seems really quick to dismiss him as just a "corrupted program" while both Susie and Kris are visibly disturbed by him and the things he said. Its just odd considering how empathetic Ralsei usually is with literally any other character, even to someone genuinely monstrous as the Chaos King, perhaps there's something about Spamton that Ralsei knows about that he doesnt want Kris and Susie to know about. Just a thought.
Yeah it feels like being "nice" will get him what he wants, whatever it is. And now that he's convinced Kris and Susie to do exactly that, he must protect the status quo. Nothing is weird or different or exceptional because he needs you three to keep going as you are going right now.
My thoughts on the Chara/abuse take:
Chara reflecting the abuse they faced onto Asriel is indeed very possible. Psychological studies on the effects and patterns of abuse show that kids who grew up being abused or witnessing abuse either learn to accept abusive behavior later in life, or become abusers themselves, as they learn that abuse is a way to get what they want out of someone, or as a way to cope with incredibly low self-esteem
Yeah... abuse in general is a very emotional and terrible thing, and can easily be passed down through generations if nothing is done to stop it
The blushing walking sprites could possibly have been for the meeting with the queen as if I remember correctly they’re labeled for that cutscene!
It’s possibly the two would blush if you picked the bosom option.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case when I picked the bosom option. Although I thought the response to the option was hilarious. Queen just says something about bosom meaning titty like a google search.
It means tity
@@betelgoose9712 Yeah I was thinking maybe she’d say titty then the two would’ve blushed after it😅
@@ziongamer6905 I would've died if that happened.
So it seems that there is definitive proof against the Kris is the knight theory. At around 23 minutes into the pre-anniversary stream segment where toby was showing off the unused songs, during game main theme (piano sketch) you get to see tobys thoughts on it. I am not going to write everything word for word so just go to the stream to read it all (for anyone reading this comment please check out the stream it's so good) but pretty much he said that he imagined it as an animated intro for the game. He said that during the end part he wanted everyone (likely with Kris included) to run up stairs and they see the knight, standing in a white door at the top of the stairs. If everyone saw the knight and Kris is the knight, that would not make sense. Kris most likely listened to Queen's speech and made a dark fountain, wanting another adventure. The most interesting thing is the white door, because who else is connected to a white door other than a *certain mysterious man.*
He didn’t say the Kris would run up the stairs. Which would make more sense, the playable character being at the top of the stairs in the opening, or a faceless antagonist we have only heard snippets about? Revealing even the Knight’s outline would be a big reveal, and people would easily figure out who it is. I think Toby was actually confirming that Kris was the Knight. Or I could be wrong and it was just an idea, and Toby hadn’t fully thought it out.
Yeah, fair enough I'm just guessing that "everyone" includes Kris. I still personally don't think Kris is THE knight since Queen said anyone with determination can create a fountain (she could be wrong though) since I feel like chapter 2 would be too early for a knight reveal. But yeah that could just be an idea toby didn't fully think through and I'm just overthinking everything.
I don't think scrapped content barely described would be definitive proof, but It's thinking I wouldn't have made. I Think whats in the game it's being put to make you doubt who's really the knight
This might be pedantic, but Gaster is associated with a grey door, not a white door
Toby cannot be trusted. He said he wouldnt nake undertale two until people stopped drawing "fanart" of toriel, and yet here we are. Also, in queens speech, she shows us that the knight used a knife to make the fountain, and it looks a lot like kris' knife. Also, we know that kris has interacted with fountains before, because of their old save file and the text when closing the fountain saying something like this feels familiar.
I feel like Mike might be the main antagonist of Ch 3. Jevil, a secret boss, foreshadowed Queen, and Spamton, a secret boss, tells Kris not to trust Mike and to not believe what they see on tv. At the end of Ch 2, when Kris opens a dark fountain, the tv starts smiling. I feel that this hints to a tv adventure, where we will face mike, as either the main antagonist, or at least the next secret boss. This is just a spur of the moment thought so I may have missed a lot disproving it.
A room in the chapter 3 screenshots is called the green room which could be a hint to more TV theming
@@theReincarnate yeah, i pointed it out to my discord friends as soon as I saw it.
TIMESTAMPS
(I also put timestamps for EVERY entry on the original iceberg, please go upvote it for visibility, it took a long time!)
1:04 The Knight
1:55 Your Choices Don't Matter
2:59 The Egg
4:04 Character Trapped in Code
5:03 The Angel is Noelle
5:19 The Mayor is Noelle's Mom
5:31 The Dark World is a Game
5:50 Ralsei Blushing When Near Kris
6:13 GIASFCLFEBREHBER / GIASFCLFUBREHBER
6:41 The Red Soul is not Kris' Soul
7:06 Bed Inspector
7:22 Purple Guy
7:45 The Spade Queen
11:16 "the one behind you, with the creepy smile."
11:33 Prunsel Creator Saw Original Iceberg (lol..)
11:44 Magic Glass
12:21 Spiders Are Cannibals
12:47 Ralsei Is Not What He Seems
13:59 Planned Thrash Machine Fight
14:05 Papyrus Looking Through The Phone
14:28 Sans Sleep Font
15:04 Everyman
15:33 Deltarune True Genocide
16:42 The City is Papyrus' Room (lmao)
16:48 Red Soul in Susie Fight
17:12 Flowey Hired Muffet
18:23 Interacting with K.Rounds' Crown
18:40 Unused Froggit in FNAF 2
19:00 Monsters Won the War in Deltarune
19:14 "I wanna tell you.. something.. tomorrow.. Somethin' I can only tell a friend..."
19:38 Stray Pixel at King Fight
20:02 Asriel Abused by Chara
22:18 "UNDYNE FOUND IT AT THE BAY..."
22:33 Everyman is The Knight
22:48 "Shouldn't proceed yet."
22:53 Deltarune LINE Stickers Give Future Plot Details
23:29 Pippins in King Uprising Cutscene
23:58 OUTRO
ok
thank u sm !!
Only if you pay me the revenue of one "upvote" or whatever
Dude is so deep into reddit that they refeer to likes as upvotes
Jokes aside great work
Don’t go to 20:02 if you skipped what the original entry was about, and might get confused.
I’m shocked when you were talking about “GIASFELFEBREHBER” you didn’t mention that Susie says that it’s ICE-E’s catchphrase. (Or at least what the guy at the store says, in a way that sounds kinda creepy)
Guy at the store, huh? Could she be referring to Sans there?
@@Daydreamer-vb4ed no, the guy at the peezeria
@@chicken0w044 Oh, right, my bad
ice-e is epileptic i swear
it's also spelled differently from both instances of it on the word search, which is probably just continuing the gag of it always being spelled differently
The Z sprites actually show up when using pacify any time. You can see it when Ralsei uses it against the werewires at the start of the cyber world. Also, my interpretation of the choices thing is that your choices do matter. It's the characters' choices that don't. You see this when you meet up with Susie and Ralsei, where Susie says that Kris looks shaken. Kris didn't want it, but they weren't making the choices. You were.
my favourite thing!!! is!!! "it's what they call 'you'"!!! when you look in a mirror!!! "your choices don't matter" is a message to kris, not the player!!!
I mean isnt that still your "choices only matter" because you are doing it viva the characters.
We the player controle Kris. Kris choices matter as he is a character.
We see the same thing happen with Noelle. We push our authority slowly from Kris to her. Which makes it seems like the Player has almost full controle over the "host/vessel" he inhabits but can also force other characters to do things if they are their party members in the game system.
There are several times where the player makes choices that the characters completely ignore, Susie on the Ferris Wheel immediately coming to mind.
I think the implication of "your choices don't matter" in the way that Seam alludes to it is that _the way the story ends / how things resolve_ will always go the same way. But the huge variety of nuance in what people experience on the way to the same destination varies quite a lot, and in that sense choices absolutely do matter.
No matter what choices a real world human makes, their life will end with death. With respect to that death, "their choices don't matter". With respect to their life, and how everyone around them feels about them and the world they're no longer participating in, their choices matter quite a lot.
@@AnnCatsanndra so deltarune is about nihilism
I dont think kris is shaken about battling spamton, they didn't seem to care about jevil, so what's different? It's what spamton says to you. He gets under kris' skin, implying that death would be the only way to free themselves of us. And when spamton becomes 'free' after cutting his literal strings... he realizes that his life was essentially wasted helping some unknown puppet master, and his own desire to be free led him to being further trapped, and eventually killed. THATS what shook kris. Thats the difference. Jevil was happy being 'free', but spamton, once he was truly free, he suffered more than ever. And that terrifies kris.
16:06 this is especially interesting because when you try to make her cast Snowgrave during the Berdly fight, she'll protest at first, saying she doesn't know that spell, but says no such thing if her first instance of Snowgrave is cast against the Maice. It's possible this is just an oversight in the game's writing, but it could also imply that Noelle KNOWS what Snowgrave is and KNOWS it will be fatal, and so she is lying in the hopes that she won't have to cast it on her friend.
SCB: "It straight up kills the enemy and turns them to dust."
They died and there's red patches just for about a split second. (though, I know monsters are not made of blood like humans, but still, the rats died with red stain.)
The "Sans is a darkner" theory suggests that darkners have blood, but no soul
@DeadWhiteDragon
That's... ketchup
@@quep1 Why would ketchup come out of his mouth?
@@deadwhitedragon9751 Wasn't there a cut sprite of Susie bleeding though?
@@dullicecream yeah but that was cut, so it's probably non-canon
Ralsei DOES address him not turning to a statue, claiming that its because he's from the PURE dark fountain from the castletown
Wait when??? Please do tell, cause I've only seen people assume that that's the reason
@@funtimegamer8733 he says it in the same scene
This implies the Original Starwalker also is
@@shellyvision9693The original starwalker is from the card castle dark fountain,not castle town
@@missingtexturez I’m aware
apparently sans' voice on the keys is a 1/100 chance, and I got it like 3 TIMES in a row when I did my second playthrough!
Likely a reference to Sans' puzzle.
"This 1 IN A MILLION Event Happened!! - Deltarune Chapter 2 Part 2"
@QuickPenguin6 ㅤ I swear that I'm not lying. this was something that actually happened to me.
@QuickPenguin6 ㅤ Idk man 1 in a million doesn't sounds THAT rare lol
@@mattwno8719 bruh
in addition to the "pure dark fountain" thing, i often hear a theory that the object Ralsei is based on is Kris' childhood horned headband. it would sort of explain why he never turns to stone: he belongs anywhere Kris is!
15:53 - 16:03 Small correction, this sequence can only happen if you abort the Snowgrave Route at Berdly and then backtrack a room, and also only in an early version; This has been patched out, so the Snowgrave death animation is now unused in-game.
(atleast in the Switch Version) No it didn't got patched
I don't think Kris is actually the knight at all
The queen says that ANY lighter can create a dark fountain, Berdly even was going to make one before ralsei sold him to stop.
I've seen a theory that Kris just wants to continue being friends with Susie so they slash toriel's car to keep her at their house and continue with their adventures. It's just them acting selfishly without the players input.
Not any. Anyone with Determination and she assumed that all Lightners have it. Meanwhile it's toxic for monsters, so it could be something like Undyne when a monster has some Determination or a Flowey situation with it being artificially injected.
hey wait a minute
where did you find that
was it a full playthrough video
of chapter 2?
OBJECTION! If kris isn't the knight, then where did he went during the night from chap1 to chap2?
@@HoplessNihilist he ate some pie
5:08 I also remember the person who sells the Freeze Ring also calls Noelle an angel.
In addition to just being balled "angel", I guess it's also worth mentioning that Noelle has a weirdly high amount of biblical references attached to her? Her Thorn Ring is a pretty clear reference to the crown of thorns worn by Jesus, and her whole family has Christmas-themed names.
This isn't really out of the question for Toby, since there were a few references in Undertale. There's an extremely minor character in the bible named Asriel (though this doesn't mean much since names like "Josh" or "Mike" are also derived from biblical names), and the number 666 pops up in relation to Gaster.
The thing is, I want to believe this all has more significance in Deltarune, because of the whole prophecy where the heroes will "...banish the ANGEL'S HEAVEN." Basically, it wouldn't surprise me if we have to fight Noelle at some point, which is worrying to say the least.
god i didnt even think about ring of thorns being a reference to jesus but that makes so much sense
imagine snowgrave makes noelle incredibly more powerful by the time we fight her- it'd fit the more challenging themes of snowgrave thus far
I think Asriel might have more significance than just being a neat name taken from the bible. If memory serves, Asriel is referred to as the angel of death and the one who went about delivering the death of the firstborns plague to the houses in Egypt that didn't have the lamb's blood. It feels like it's supposed to mean something.
Also, for some reason, seeing you connect Noelle and Biblical references, the first thing that jumped out at me was "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth"
We fight noelle in the snowgrave route lets go
Your honor
Noelle's fuckin balling
A good thing to note with The Angel's Heaven, is that Satan himself was an angel, a fallen angel but an angel nonetheless. Since 666 is related to Gaster, and 666 is the number of the devil, it wouldn't be too far off to think it could also refer to Gaster. It would be "predictable" sure but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be able to be done in an interesting way. Hell, maybe both are simultaneously true.
Spamton addresses *someone* as an [Angel], but it’s never directed at Noelle. Specifically he’s talking to whoever is buying the ring, which he then talks about when fighting NEO at the end of the Snowgrave Route, and he words it as though Kris bought the ring and GAVE it to Noelle. It’s far more likely that the player is the Angel given loads of evidence points to that (example: the heroes’ end goal is to “banish the Angel’s Heaven,” i.e. cutting off the player’s tie to the world of Deltarune) even if Noelle might seem to have loose angelic vibes on some level (note that she doesn’t have angel wings, she’s just wearing a white robe).
Someone else pointed out that the ring of thorns could be seen as an allusion to Jesus, in which case the biblical matches would be the player as the Angel or god, Kris as a conduit for the Angel to communicate, and Noelle as Jesus, the sacrificial direct force that enacts retribution where the Angel or conduit can’t.
An idea I had for the Everyman is that he may be some particularly important Goner somehow, maybe with a more direct tie to Gaster than we see with the other Goners, or perhaps even a Piece of Gaster himself somehow, similar to the Piece one of the Followers hold
It could also be a situation similar to the "Bad Wolf" saying in Doctor Who, where through a series of strange events, the words "Bad Wolf" are spread across all of time and space, consistently following The Doctor and Rose Tyler despite the improbability of such a thing. A similar situation could be in ace with Everyman if he is somehow a Piece of Gaster. Gaster was said to have spread throughout all of time and space, yet at the same time doesn't technically exist anywhere, so it could be that instances of Everyman such as the Amalgamate Attack in Undertale, the graffiti in Deltarune, his Head/Helmet thing in Queen's Text attack, his body used in Jevil's carousel attack, rhe apparent plushies of him I suppose, and so on and so forth, could be various examples of him "spread throughout time and space", as if Everyman is somehow a Piece of Gaster, it would make sense he would be spread throughout time and space as well, both within the seperate universes of Undertale and Deltarune, perhaps even the "Man behind the tree" being both Everyman and Gaster simulation because, well, Everyman is a piece of Gaster
Simultaneously*
No oh come on Every man is tied to Gaster too now? Course the fuck he would be everything in these games are. Fucking A
@@Hamantha I suggest you watch this video. czcams.com/video/RwDrTL3jhoQ/video.html
I think you think Undertale and Deltarune players are going willy-nilly about Gaster, but it really makes sense once you understand that everything IS actually connecting and Toby Fox DID do all of this intentionally. If it wasn't intentional, Toby would have stopped making these kinds of easter eggs a while ago, because he knows about people tying these events together and theorizing.
@@sunnypeach1328 intentional or not idc. It’s frustrating. Everything just traces back to this one ambiguous source that could be anything. It waves away any discussion and scrutiny cause “oh it’s just Gaster” whether true or not
@@Hamantha Hey who knows, he could be literally the point of Undertale and Deltarune. That's not to say that people don't only talk about Gaster; there are some very cool and plausible theories about aspects of Deltarune and Undertale, such as what happened to December (Dess) Holiday, why monsters don't bleed but Sans does, what Sans is referring to when he says he 'gave up trying to go back a long time ago' etc etc... there's so many possibilities and I acknowledge that not all the answers are Gaster.
Wow, Chapter 3 made that age like milk.
Hold on, tell me Ralsei isn't a villain please
I wish this was real :(
MIKE IS REAL VILLAIM CHAPTER 3 REAL (REAL)
@@TheRealSuperKirby cant wait to see this be true
@@TheRealSuperKirby And he always was the frogit fnaf sprite!!!!!!!!!!1!
Why is no one questioning how the queen and the king have met up and been in contact seeing how the cyber world and Card world didn't seem to be linked and if either of them went to each others fountains they would turn into a statue
Yeah. Good question. How could they know of each other?
I personally believe that the dark worlds have already existed, overlapping the light world or staying underground or somewhere. The Knight(s) creating the fountains just awakens each dark world and allows it to have an entrance between light and dark.
Because the music trio said that Queen was never like this until the arrival of the Knight, so I think the darkners have lived their way for a long time until the Knight thrusts open the fountain.
queen probably met him while playing solitaire or some shit
You ever play solitaire online? That probably would do the trick. Also, these characters seem to exist before they are given life by the fountains, since king mentions being betrayed by lightners, THEN the knight shows up and makes the fountain. Queen mentions that the internet went out which caused her to worry for noelle, THEN the knight made the fountain and gave her the idea. Any interaction between the cards and computers would have an effect. We dont know how it works yet, so we cant say for sure, but we do know that lancer also knows about queen, since he refers to her as mom
I feel like canonically, each chapter will retcon in new information that never actually existed or happened till the chapter is played.
Like, before Kris and Susie go into the dark world in chapter 2 it's entirely possible the King had no idea who the queen was, however, through the process of the lightners creating the darkners (aka using their imagination) details like the king knowing the queen's existence suddenly becomes canon. It would also explain the king's confusion towards how the Queen was Lancer's mother.
I always considered Chara to be sort of a reborn entity, moulded entirely by your choices in throughout the story, which is why the narrator becomes significantly colder and sharper during Genocide routes. This makes what you see at the end of a Genocide route a monster you created.
You laughing at the idea of Everyman being the knight is either going to age well or poorly
I want to know why he laughed at it. I need answers.
@@someoneirrelevant6815 Hey, they actually use they/them pronouns, as said in the video, so use the correct pronouns next time.
@@murfy1492 Can you provide the time stamp for this? I don’t remember hearing it.
@@someoneirrelevant6815 It's in their old Undertale iceberg follow-up video at 0:33.
it will be the annoying dog, who will attack with removing your acting/fighting abilities
Its obvious that Kris isn't the knight. The Queen literally teaches them how to create fountains and also reveals that creating fountains is not an ability of the knight but rather something any lightner is capable of.
Didn't she say it takes a Lightner with Determination to make a fountain? Monsters can't have determination cause it destroys them. So it makes sense that Kris, a human, is the real knight who can make the dark fountains
@@deleteduser9755 then why would Ralsei stop Berdly from making a fountain?
@@creature6715 gonna be honest, wasn't paying attention to why he shouldn't so idk. I still think Kris is the knight but who knows I could be wrong when chapter 3 rolls around
she wasn't teaching him??? she was just explaining it
she taught him, just not not intentionally
I love how watching the original ultimate iceberg video and knowing everything speculated about chapter 2 was just so so wrong was just so perfect. I also don't think Kris is the true knight. We also know that any lightners with enough determination can create a fountain and it can prove that anyone can be the knight. Also love your little VTuber avatar thing in streams. Also I have a theory, but I'll put that on another comment because this one is really long.
whats the theory?
Mmm another human perhaps? Theres alot of weight put on being human in deltarune since kris is the only one we know of
Or a monster with lots of determination
@@thedistinguished5255 for real
Kris even seemed rather ashamed to be human and wanted to learn magic, have horns like their family
I do hope we get more human monster history once we get further access to the libraries upper floor
@@arbea_ I have a theory that in this game, the humans lost the war, and sent too the bunker. Every 100 years they give a human "sacrifice" that Toriel takes in (hence Toriel checking out a book about humans multiple times) over the last 700 years (speculating that we are the 7th human) this has happened, and this last time, Asriel was born sometime after we were found (we know monsters age quicker than humans so it makes sense if he's as old as he is) Another theory I have is that Gaster, when spread across space and time in Undertale, a piece of him was put in the code. Since code was most likely reused in deltarune, gaster may of been brought over too deltarune. He is talking to the secret bosses of each chapter, telling them they are in a game, driving them crazy. He needs them to cut his strings to get him out. Hence why I think if you spare Spamton, and cut his strings, you effectively free Gaster.
@@kakashilover9231 but why would toriel need a book on how to take care of humans if she's been taking care of them every 100 years
"The Power of Reoccuring Bake Sales."
This is the dialogue at the Save Point at the Bake Sale in chapter one. Until that point, there hasn't been a Bake Sale. Undertale had two bake sales.
One thing I wanna bring up is that the interaction after the Spamton Neo fight, the one when Susie and Ralsei ask Kris if they're ok after all the puppet talk, and if you awnser "No", Kris screams it and is shaking so Visabley Ralsei straight up hugs them, retroactively makes a lot of Queen's dialogue WAY more fucked up to Kris specifically. Especially during the scene right before birdly unveils the statue, Queen's dialogue about Kris not having those "Pesky things" like opinions or emotions just takes a super dark turn when you realize how it applies to Kris. But all of queen's "control" speal is way more fucked up looking at it through Kris' eyes; especially the part where she relents and stops, that's practically taunting Kris right there, albeit unknowingly.
Also, mini-theory that might get proven wrong by next chapter:
So far, both of the secret-bosses have embodied an aspect of Kris and the Player's relationship; Spamton obviously embodies the mostly unwilling puppet, and Jevil, "Trapped" in a prison yet being the only one who's "free", seems to parallel the soul being "trapped" in Kris, and yet having all the free will of the two.
The secret bosses going forward might mirror other aspects of the relationship, like Memory of past saves or Erasure of the Self.
Something that gives me chills is How the hell does everyman exist in deltarune?
The amalgams don't exist. They are dead monsters as they should be, so everyman can't be exclusive to them.
Everyman is seen in an alleyway in the light world, but it's also seen in the darkworld, meaning that "it" exists in both worlds.
Edit: Thinking about the amalgams, I realized that gaster missing is a "plot hole" in deltarune. Think about it, Monsters were Never drifted to the underground, meaning that the core was Never created, but somehow, someway, gaster is missing. If gaster Never fell into the core, why don't we hear about him? What if he died eitherway like how toriel and asgore divorced? Muffet is also missing, and muffet says that someone hired her to kill You.
I still think everyman is the (or a) knight and no one can stop meee
@@TheRealSuperKirby silentchater got you dirty xD
People have a theory that the everyman is a popular Monster stick figur in the Deltarune univers and we never saw the everyman live so im sure this is the explanation for a few Easter Egg
I hate reading these comments before bed. How will i sleep???
Gaster could simply jump from UT to DR or something like that. He is literally between everything so, eh, why not?
One interesting theory for why Ralsei is able to survive in other dark worlds is that since he is from the closet fountain (which he mentions is a pure dark fountain whatever that means), he is able to survive in any dark world and darkners from any dark world are able to survive in castle town.
Still I think Ralsei is hiding something, not evil, just hiding something. Like how did he go from the closet to the computer lab?
Probably Ralsei is Asriel and Asriel isn’t ay college?
@@vixouu7925 no. I despise that theory. No offense
Ralseis words cannot be trusted for all we know he can make that bullshit up along the way.
He is aware of the players existence and has secret conversations when the Player isnt looking at Kris.
@@vixouu7925 no, because Asriel would be a lightener, but only darkeners have colours in chat
@@MonoReaper If he made that up, then why do all the darkners not turn to stone in castle town?
Edit:Typo fix
i just thought of a theory while watching this video:
what if the character lost in the code, who keeps asking for help, is the person we created at the beginning of chapter 1 that was discarded. the character creation screen ended in black, and the character lost on the code mentions their lack of senses. there's probably more things that prove this theory, but i just thought of this now so i don't have that much.
12:57
Quick theory, Ralsei did mention something about the Grand Fountain about allowing all kinds of Darkners to be recruited to (Insert Player)'s Castle Town.
So maybe, he holds a bit of the Grand Fountain's power to allow him to not turn into a statue in other dark worlds. Just a theory lol
"YOU are manipulating Noelle"
"TECHnically your choices don't matter"
YOU N TECH
is all the letters capitalised in this comment
yountech, what does it mean?🤔🤔🤔
@@thedistinguished5255 Maybe You And Tech (spamton neo probably) because at the fight he has strings I guessing I don’t know
@@thedistinguished5255
I think the N is capitalized because it's a name
it means nothing
@@kafuchino3435 okay mx. nihilist
im calling it, in the next chapter when you fight the boss, theres gonna be more stray pixels
The final boss will be a tiny stickman formed from the stray pixels of every previous end boss.
until theres no floor
About the LINE sticker bit - I believe the one that has Noelle give out a Candy Cane mirrors when she gave Susie a Candy Cane pencil... haven't seen anyone mention it from what I've seen
I need to point this out: I study zoology, also ethology (branch of zoology). Spiders are sentient. All non-sessile animal life is sentient, plants posses the ability to think too, the word you're looking for is SAPIENT. Not only that but humans aren't even the only animals who are sapient (those include other apes, cetaceans, elephants, raccoons, rats, corvids, psittacines and octopodes). We all have different experiences and different cultures we pursue, cannibalism in spiders and many other insects is just normalised behaviour. Human cannibalisation is entirely biologically possible as a path. Humans could have potentially been cannibals if that sort of behaviour had been normalised through the evolution of vertebrates. Usually, cannibalisation among vertebrates is frowned upon and can be taboo in humans or non-human animals. Most will avoid such behaviour but if the resources are scarce, they will eat others to ensure their own survival. Many will be emotionally scarred due to it.
Basically, we could have potentially had a normalised culture in which humans were eating humans consistently. Humans need to stop looking at other animals as lesser beings because that is biologically not true. While there are physical limits to some creatures, for example, invertebrates having a smaller amount of neurons in their ganglia compared to humans, that doesn't mean they are stupid. Far from it, actually. Ants have extremely complex societies and some have medics, bees can recognise human faces and different art styles, snails have been proven to have complex personalities, etc. Many non-human animals possess intelligence much more advanced than that of humans, it's just that one thing needs to be thrown out of common use - portraying intelligence as a scale. It is not. Intelligence is more like a stat tree which has numerous aspects evolved in certain groups of animals, entirely based on their lifestyle and their behaviour. Humans have specifically evolved mathematical intelligence, verbal intelligence and crafting intelligence. Portraying non-human animals as lesser and humans as the only "intelligent" ones has the exact same basis as ableism and racism. Why? Because it's based on: a) failing to understand the behaviour and intellect of other beings simply becuse they are "different" and act "different" b) basing prejudice on the group an individual belongs to.
I could write you pages upon pages of text on this but I've already written too much. TL;DR it appears that spiders eating spiders is just normalised among that group of people.
ALSO, completely unrelated but you're the only person I've seen so far who has perfectly and properly read Queen's dialogue! I love how you do it; no punctuation, no commas, no pauses. Reading everything in the same tone and fast. Makes me very happy to hear that 😭❤
wow, what a comment- im glad that me being unable to remember the word "sapient" made this comment possible LMAO
ty for this, its given me smth to think about ❤
@@silentchatterbox52 oH MY GODS, I- I'm losing my mind over this, primarily because it's incredibly sweet of you to appreciate additional information. That is a rare trait because I've been harassed many times for just providing information, so a kind and thoughtful reaction like this means a lot, thank you.
Secondly, wow I was not expecting a heart, thank you!! I shit you not, from watching so many Undertale and Deltarune videos, I had a really depressing dream about Spamton who wanted to take his life out of misery (and we know how depressing his story is). I was trying to prevent it, then got woken up and saw a notification on my phone saying that my comment got a heart and I, still partially hallucinating, just went "what?? My essay??"
Made me laugh, thank you, can't wait to see more of your content!
I don’t know if anyone said this already but in the arcade game cutscene if you choose the “bosom” option than Ralsei will blush and act confused so it can probably be inferred that originally Kris was also supposed to blush. Maybe?
I agree with what you say, I don't think Kris is the Roaring Knight. Considering Queen literally explains how to build a fountain, Kris could have literally just learned how to make one then
Also on the topic of Ralsei, he supposedly comes from the closet Dark World, which he explains is hospitable to all darkners, so it would make sense that a being formed from that fountain would survive in other worlds for longer or indefinitely
This is what I was thinking, I think he's definitely a darkener becuse of the colored sprite next to his text but I still don't trust him
According to ralseis own manual, his body is compromised of entirely darkness from his castle town fountain which explains his cross dark world compatibility
One thing I don't understand however is how he was able to get from the closet Dark World to the Cyber World on his own. After all, the closet in the school and the computer lab in the Librarby are nowhere near each other. Wouldn't he have to cross into the Light World to even get there?
everyone is talking about kris being the knight and hear am wondering how susie and toriel didnt wake up the second kris made the fountain
@@spugnoxngubcux9801 not necessarily, it's implied that the dark worlds are all connected in some way within their own plane. Characters from different dark worlds have knowledge about and have seemingly interacted with others before (most obviously Queen and Spade King, but also Tasuqe Manager knows who Jevil is, at least indirectly). Just because we can't go on these paths in game doesn't mean they're not there within the game's world.
Of course, it would be faster and easier to go through the light world.
It could also be that time works differently in the dark world and the time it took for us to reach the library and enter that world was comparatively hours for Ralsei
Hey I just wanted to say thank you for actually using the correct pronouns for Kris. It drives me insane when people just use whatever pronouns they want for them.
im enby myself and i need all of the enby rep we can get lol
In the “Suspicious Ralsei” portion, I’m
surprised you didn’t mention the line Ralsei wrote in the book that essentially makes getting LOVE possible.
"Toby confirmed the soul coming from the top right in the Susie fight isn't a bug but was intentionally vague about it"
Toby: *straight up says why it came from the top right*
If you translate EGG into wingdings it shows this 👈👆👆 which is the movement of a knight in chess, also I believe the kris isn't the only knight theory because in chess there are two white knights and two black knights.
DUDE THAT IS SUCH A IMPORTANT DETAIL I NEVER THOUGHT OF.
2 white knights and 2 black knights..
What could this mean for future chapters?
AYO????
Damn, that’s so true. This might mean that there are two Lightner “Knights” and two Darkner “Knights”. While Queen’s dialogue implies that Darkners might not have access to Determination, there are three points that might explain this:
1. Undyne had access to high amounts of Determination for a pretty significant amount of time
2. We don’t know what would happen to a Darkner with Determination
3. Queen admitted herself that she doesn’t know everything
Another thing to add is how the french-suited playing cards that were used as another big basis for the first Dark World also have a similar distinction to the four Knights in chess: you have Red Diamonds and Red Hearts as well as Black Clubs and Black Spades (two groups with two parts to each). We can take this even further with how the SOUL is shaped like a Red Heart, so perhaps the other 3 Knights would also have a huge connection to the other 3 suits. Considering how one of the Knight’s has a connection to King and how King hates Lightners, it would be safe to assume that the Knight who made King’s fountain was a Darkner, and the one that made Queen’s was a Lightner (the Diamond Knight). If this is true, then we’ve already seen the influence of at least 3 Knights.
I know this is a pretty long post, and this last point might be a bit farfetched, but I also want to add that we could also perhaps get an idea on their powers, motivations or personalities based on their respective suits. The Heart could represent the power to SAVE and RESET that the Player/Kris have access too, the Diamond could suggest that the other Lightner Knight is either materialistic or thinks of themselves highly (perhaps Muffet for the former or Papyrus for the latter, or just a completely new character), the Club (or Clover) could represent some kind of Luck-based power, and idk what the Spade could be.
If you read all this, have some fried Pipis 🔵
@@ghengiroo4143
This is genius, holy shit.
@@ghengiroo4143 ok hear me out, what if there's such things as light fountains, if a dark fountain is possible then why not a light one
Note about the Egg thing.
Temmie's Hard Boiled Egg will actually tell you how many eggs you have collected. For this it just matters if you found the Egg. Doesn't matter if you put it somewhere or thrown it away.
Not enough people are talking about how the ending cutscene implies chapter 3 undyne
That would make sense, considering Toriel called the police about her cars' tires being slashed. She probably fell into the fountain while coming over to investigate
Edit: forgot about this comment until stumbling into it just now and I wanted to apologize for the rude tone.
“Maybe someone taught them” The queen legit says “With enough determination, anyone can make a fountain” after explaining how to make one.
Exactly, kris just creates a fountain for [insert reason] after realizing from queen that you just need to focus a determined will into a blade
@@thepinkterror2907 Actually, there might be two reasons. The first one, Kris wants to make Susie happy and keep things interesting. The second, Kris wants to make Toriel to forgive Asgore (Dunno why she's angry though). For example, Susie changed in Chapter 1 and now she's a completely different character. Noelle and Berdly changed too. Noelle became more confident and Berdly became less arrogant.
@@justarandomguy1561 So the dark world is a character development machine huh?
@@pablopereyra7126 Maybe it is. Imagine going in a fantasy world with the people you hate, but spending time with them might make you understand them better.
My personal theory on kris and the knight: kris isn’t the knight. In fact, they didn’t even have the chance to be the knight. I think that that day was when kris learned how to open a fountain, because queen told them how to. They opened a new fountain because… maybe they want to search the dark world for a way to free themselves of our control? “But we only saw kris open a fountain, so they must be the knight“ not necessarily. Kris is the only one we’ve seen, but according to queen, every lightner can open one. She was gonna use noelle to open fountains, and berdly was about to open one before ralsei stopped him. Any lightner could be the knight. It could be asriel. It could be gaster. It could even be papyrus. All i’m saying is, kris opening one fountain doesn’t confirm they opened all of them. In fact, we’ve been already told to not take these endings at face value - everyone took the chapter one ending to mean that kris would go on a murder spree, but they were actually just eating the pie. In the same way, we can’t take this ending at face value.
I've been seeing some people thinking the fake out for chapter 3 could be that kris hit a gas pipe in the ground but I don't know anything about pipes'n shit so I dunno
@@TheRealSuperKirby the laser pipe
@@TheRealSuperKirby loll theyd all die
I think its setup for a fountain this time
Unless they brought some fancy smokescreen with them? That would be a weird thing to do..
It's Chara
I suspect Kris is a much worse person outside the players control than Frisk was. The way he constantly "pranks" Noelle, in sometimes pretty mean ways makes me think this.
I love that in the Steam page of this, it says
and more 1 ending.....?
More than 1 endings are implied. I love that.
Edit: what if the eggs are just pieces of Gaster?
Edit2: people just don't seem to understand that since his fountain is pure darkness, and other darkners can live in his world, well you get the gist.
Seriously, so many people ignore the little fact that other darkners can live at the main dark fountain just fine so it would surmise that a primary resident of the main fountain should be fine.
17:30 Mettaton wanted your soul so he could bypass the barrier and become a celebrity on the surface.
I'd argue that's motivation enough to want to at least try hiring some people to do the job for you.
Especially considering he explicitly tells you that he doesn't actually want to kill you and just wants to put on a good show, then says "I was the one that hired everyone to kill you!"
yeah I'm pretty sure Kris learned for the first time about how lighteners can open fountains at the end of chapter two, when ralsei stops birdie from doing it and explains that other part of the legend
"Birdie" LMAO
A little theory here: Toriel said asriel would come in a week right? Deltarune has 7 chapters planned so probably in chapter 7 Asriel is gonna be in it (maybe)
THATS ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE
ooooooooOOOOOOOOOO
Yes pls
True. Every chapter is 1 day, so yeah
That could work if chapter 7 is like the longest chapter. I just don't see Asriel having the least screentime out of any character in Delta.
i’ve been getting the old one recommended like crazy. thank you for making another:)
I think that Kris wanted to make more dark worlds after learning how to, by Queen. She says that any lightner can trust their blade into the ground and create a dark fountain. What I don't get is why Kris would want another fountain. They heard what will happen with 3 dark fountains and if another being is creating one fountain daily, then the 3 fountains, the castle town, the daily fountain and Kris' fountain will destroy the town.
theory: in every chapter there is going to be an egg and when all eggs are in asgore's refrigerator, maybe, just maybe, something will happen
I think youll be able to put each egg into a different egg place related to an important cutscene. So far both of them were related to asgore (bc we meet him at the store)
Maybe its an easter egg plot
@@thedistinguished5255 Easter egg
Years
When you put all the eggs in Asgore's fridge, he finally gets to eat lunch
18:02 this is genius every thing about makes perfect sense if it was kickstarter backers and now that’s what im going too believe
Thank you for this video. I really like the format and the way you present information.
I doubt you'll talk about this until you have enough info for another Deltarune Iceberg, but similar to the fact that in the first major Iceberg video you mentioned an SCP article, specifically 3922, doing a test on Deltarune Chapter 1, one of the most recent additions to that article now include a test on Chapter 2 of Deltadune, which include quite a bit more info on 3922-A instances interfering, and once again the epilog sequence for whatever reason having Sans entirely absent, with the 'Sans convenience store now closed down
12:58 Ralsei also appeared in the Cyber World somehow even though we didn't take him with us, which is very strange to say the least ,considering the only other way to get to this new dark world is through the real world's library's computer laboratory.
I’d assume there’s a way to traverse from one dark world to another in the same way the party went from the closet’s to the unused classrooms
@@rffrice Probably this, Plus Queen Knowing the King and the mention of "a Clown" by Spamton and a Werewire, There must be a way or something
Probably the giant door to the right
Technically left
It’s closed at the start of chapter 2
6:03 kris feels embarrassed after being unable to reach the controls in the machine
An interesting detail is that SnowGrave is an anagram for WrongSave. Which is possibly Toby pushing the fact that the SnowGrave route is not supposed to happen. Which shows someone is pulling the strings in the background.
Also another interesting detail in Deltarune. is when you’re in your home and Susie is sitting on the couch, and then Susie says”it’s not like someone needs to tell you to sit down.” But it’s interesting that Susie says that knowing that Kris is possibly being controlled
Your Icebergs are probably the best I’ve seen. Keep up the great work!
With Ralsei and his weirdness, my guesses are that he’s able to join other worlds because he’s made of pure darkness (like his fountain), or that it’s because hes a reflection of Kris’s will. Maybe even both.
The first is rather simple, we know all Darkners can live off of Ralseis fountain because it’s pure Darkness. Since Ralsei is from this fountain, hes likely made of pure darkness. This explains why he’s able to leave and join other worlds, hes got a catch all ability no other Darkner has.
The second theory is more interesting and I think is also likely. Ralsei and Asriel isn’t a new connection by any means, but the question of why and how he is connected isn’t answered. Something worth noting is that Ralsei is the *only* darkner thus far who hails from the fountain of pure darkness, this implies that it’s uncommon for life to sprout from the fountain. Now, the question is, why did Ralsei come into existence? We know why all the other worlds did, but why did Ralsei?
We know that Kris has been really missing Asriel, thus it’s definitely possible Ralsei sprouted from their will to have Asriel back. To answer why he has the ability to hop between worlds, its possible that it’s because Kris’s will is to always have Asriel with them.
That said, Ralsei might also be a reflection of the players will as well.
This explains how he seemingly knows he’s in a video game (like how he expected the transition to Susie and Noelle at the end of Ch. 2). Another strange detail that supports this is how a lot of Ralseis dialogue is giving us (the player) as chance to make dialogue decisions. He asks us what we think a lot more than other characters do and we get a lot of chances to respond when talking to him. This also explains why Ralseis kingdom in Ch. 2 is named after the player.
Thus, it is my belief that Ralsei is a reflection of both Kris and the players will.
1:48 let's all remember, Kris is only shown making a Fountains after Queen explains how, that makes the possibility that they actually just learned how to and tried right there and then
I think Kris learned how to make a dark fountain from after the Queen Robot fight. Just before Ralsei started talking about the Roaring.
Then who made all the other fountains? It has to be a Lightner who did all this. The one exception might be the Castle Town fountain. I still have a strong feeling that was due to Gaster.
Someone has to have knowledge of the fountain's creation in the light world. One suspect is Catti. She is known for studying the occult. She also says some strange things about darkness.
A very good detail was pointed out in some video I watched that after the normal Spamton fight, when Kris is asked if they're okay, saying yes makes the dialouge implies that they said it in a strained voice, as if Kris was fighting not to say it. On the other hand, saying no has the dialouge state that Kris yelled it, implying they wanted to say their true feelings but needed the players input to be able to reply. I never noticed this when I played through, but all of the subtle storytelling, down to this single piece of dialouge that you have to plsy through a secret segment twice to fully see, is incredible.
I’m literally in love with your content
I think Kris isn’t a Knight or IS the Knight, but is being used as a vessel for them.
Think about how we were introduced to this world by someone who clearly had the power to work with determination. Who said we were the only one in control?
You're seriously implying chara after all the things he said in about chara in this video?
@@TheRealSuperKirby what, no! I am observing that litterally it could be that we’re not the only one in control of Kris.
Don’t jump to a conclusion I literally didn’t say.
This might be silly but i think kris has 2 souls, one in their chest and one in their head that makes their hollow eyes glow red. Sometimes the "other" soul is in control, but kris is only half as strong with one soul so its hard to move for them. I dont think they could move at all with none souls?
Well, there are some chess references in this chapter, so if "knight" has to do with chess, someone has to be moving the pieces. Either us, gaster, or someone else
It's Chara
22:35
I remember someone laughing like this when someone said that rose quartz was pink diamond, way back in season 2 of Steven universe.
Well look at what happened.
I think it's okay to get things wrong. With how long it is taking to get the chapters, it is very likely we only have a small amount of information, even now. I like your attitude towards new information. I've seen very interesting things theorized with tiny amounts of info, and even when wrong, it proves to be the best part of this community. There are so many ideas and directions that are theorized about everything in this game that isnt even complete yet. It really is inspiring.
I honestly think Gaster was the first knight and the person to create the first dark fountain. it would explain his entry 17 dialogue, the many references to him in deltarune, and the reason why the core contains pillars named "darkness totems" in the files. Maybe the core is powered by a dark fountain?
whoa whoa whoa, darkness totems?
i had no idea about that
The “Aster” thing was started by MatPat in his original Gaster theory.
of course it was matpat . god
I’ve completely forgot about Matpat tbh. His theories are pretty bad imo.
Uh, no it wasn't? It was on Reddit and Tumblr way before MatPat made that video. MatPat simply took the Aster thing for granted.
no it was ness
Whoever said it first, MatPat popularized it and everybody took it for granted
I love the voice acting in the Queen and King convo. Beautifully done
The reason darkners turn to stone isn't because of the absence of their dark fountain but rather due to thematic inappropriateness. The Castle Town is a storage closet, which doesn't really have a theme, which is why characters from medieval board game world to Y2K Cyberpunk World can coexist. Hence why the door to the Forest of Hopes and Dreams in the Dark World is in the same place as the Unused Classroom in the Light world
That makes so much sense! What I dont get is why rouxls kard didnt turn to stone as fast as lancer. Lancer turned immediately after leaving your pocket, rouxls on the other hand, has been running around since you got into the dark world
@@funtimegamer8733 But lancer did EXIST in your pocket. They actually turn to stone at nearly the same point in the game.
I could’ve sworn Ralsei stated that lancer turned into stone because his fountain went out. Ralsei’s fountain is still functioning.
Although how did he get to cyber world and what’s he talking about when we’re absent. Mysterious boy.
Good video, I liked seeing you touch up the ideas from the old video.
Yeah that’s what the explanation is
How do ppl miss this! This was underexplained but the closet and the classroom are two different fountains
That wasn’t the explanation. He said some darkeners aren’t compatible with other fountains. Then he explained to queen that his fountain was made out of pure darkness, letting any darkner exist there without turning into stone.
@@thedistinguished5255 I can’t believe people keep missing this, like, that was the whole plot of the prophecy.
It's a matter of compatibility, not Lancer's fountain
THEYRE BACK WITH ANOTHER BANGER VIDEO!!!! we love you bud, you make our lives a little less confusing. 💛🤍💜🖤
heh those are the non binary colors
so swag
@@pavilion6198 yes indeed
oh is silent chatterbox non binary?
@@chio3380 yes, they use they/them!
@@chio3380 yup!
I think the reason why Ralsei could go to the cyber world and not turn into a statue is because the dark fountain he came from is, according the game, made of pure darkness. Therefore, that might mean that he can go to any dark world.
13:37, the thing about this event is it happens 4 times during ch1 and ch2. This isn't just coincidence at this point. Ralsei IS aware of the playersoul/krisbody being seperate entities and talks when the playersoul is away. Thats why they become pushy. Ralsei wants us gone.
ralsei is from the pure dark fountain though right? it makes sense hes completely fine in other dark worlds
If you interact with a car when going to the library at the start and it says "there is a man in here here"
"He is happy to see you"
Btw thay only happens if you have collected the egg
@@TheRealSuperKirby oh cool
i'm sure someone's already mentioned it, but i think the ralsei being evil thing is going to be a huge bait and switch. it seems like he's not intentionally hiding things (see: he just assumed the queen knew what would happen if she made a fountain when she didn't, so ralsei never mentioned it until she admitted she didn't know, then he was surprised and quickly explained the dangers to her). theres obviously some tie between ralsei and asriel but i don't buy they're the same person, maybe if he IS a darkner (which i'm starting to believe more since his death animation is just... disappearing- aside from his clothes) then he's formed from something representing asriel like the other darkners are formed from items from the light world? maybe a photo, maybe kris' goat horn headband (is that canon? i feel like that's canon) that got left behind at school one day or maybe he's something representing asriel or goat monster related kris carries around with them.
in any case, i don't think asriel is evil or being intentionally secretive. he just assumes others know what he knows and willingly gives information up when asked without struggle (hence him making a very general guide and giving it to kris upon arrival, and offering to make another if the player makes them destroy it).
unrelated to that, i think the "your choices don't matter." line isn't as straightforward as it's often taken. toby likes to twist things a lot and i think it's in reference to *both* kris and the player. kris' choices don't matter when we're in control and our choices don't matter when we aren't in control of kris (see: when we're "in control" of susie during her interactions with noelle, she never says what we want her to say). we force kris to choose options they would never decide on (ralsei and susie pointing out kris looking upset at certain points) and this is seen especially in the snowgrave route. noelle even says they sound different than normal, implying their voice sounds like the player's or sounds especially strained against what we, the player, are making them do.
i do think ralsei has some idea that kris is being controlled, if not then he's somehow aware of the game not proceeding how it should. flowey and sans obviously had omnipotence, but i'm unsure of how this plays in with ralsei exactly. ralsei seems confused when the route changes or when kris doesn't act how he expects them to, which points to him being aware of the player as a *player of a game* and not just something controlling kris.
i hope any of this makes sense. i nodded off at the end of the full iceberg you made and when i woke up this was in my recommendeds so i watched it immediately and am typing this all after just finishing the video. had no clue there was an egg in this chapter as well!
Gaster in fanon: A god-like being that wants to destroy everything and reset the timeline to nothing.
Gaster in canon: Can I offer you a nice egg in this trying time?
7:14 anyone else find it odd how in kris's dark world room, there's no bed for asriel and all the trophies are on kris's side if the room 🤔🏆
This could be Kris wanting to be the main character and feeling like the hero. In the real world Asriel is like the “golden boy”. He has all these trophies and participates in many activities and is loved by all. Kris is the opposite and most likely felt second best so in the dark world Kris made it so that they could be the best for once.
@@retrodiisiac yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I think Kris loves Asriel, but still feels a bit bitter about always being second
@@socksinsoda9517 second? Kris never got anything, they never got anything. They weren't even being considered.
14:54
Isnt that just straight up extra point for "Sans is a darkner" theory?
Yeeee its a good theory
@@thedistinguished5255 How would he exist in the light world if he was a Darkner? He clearly isn't an inanimate object. So far every single Darkner does not retain their physical forms outside of the Dark world.
I only have one question related to that: If Darkners and Lightners turn to dust when they die, then why does Sans *bleed?*
actually no he was carrying a comically large ketchup packet under his shirt in case frisk hits him
@@Daniel328DT no WAIT
hes a Skeleton....
@@dimples9746 my theory is that it relates to the flashing colors in his eyes
Basically -we never see a monster who absorped a human soul actually get hurt, as you cant damge Asriel or ΩFlowey
-we never see the human souls during genocide
-sans a lot of power dispite his stats
-we never actually see him die on screen
Its far fetched but sans absorbed the human souls of justice and patience, and thats why hes bleeding
More realisticly, he simply manifested that power the same way undyne manifested determination , the colors simply corresponding to his feelings of both justice and patience knowing how endless this fight really is for him
The "Kris is knight" theory had another thing, Kris might have just learned how when berdly tried to open it.
But I think that the fact that Kris opens it even after a snowgrave route proves that wrong.
I think the scene at 2:35 would benefit from some "Vine Booms"
13:08 Ralsei was formed out of the original dark fountain (according to the unused manuel), so he is compatible with every dark world
Just like how any Darkner is compatible with CastleTown
doesnt explain how he was able to travel from castle town to cyber world without turning into a light world item
nor does it explain his knowledge of the light world’s layout
@@mintvibing ralsei is your mom
Oh I forgot there was a manual
@@funtimegamer8733 I mean... You can't see what it says in-game, you have tu check the game files
Dang bro, your dub of chaos king is a COMEDY GOLD
1:50 You might be right! When you fight Queen in chapter 2, she has some dialogue that talks about how "having enough determination and a knife can create a fountain" and how she wants Noelle to do it for her. So chances are Kris heard that dialogue and just learned that they could create a fountain at that moment.
15:50 aged like milk lmao. This no longer works (it was patched), making the graphic involved with it no longer used.
My theory is ralsei is different with every dark world the closet for the memory of asriel at school and the cyber world is the memory of ralsei for when he took kris to the computer lab.
Edit: Wait this explains why he acts differently then in castle town.
maybe thats why ralsei doesn't know how to be ralsei-like.
Well your theory reminds me of that one Deltarune fan comic called “Paper Trail”
@@zachduperron8543 it was kinda inspired by that comic just not that much
...that makes so much sense