Deltarune (Chapter 2) with a side of salt
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
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Scott: “I don’t get why people hate Berdly so much.”
Also Scott: “My favorite part of Chapter 2 was killing Berdly.”
See? Liking the snowgrave/wierd route doesnt mean that you hate or dislike Berdly...
I mean, I still dont like him, but not because I like the wierd/snowgrave route ok?-
Liking a plot in which a character dies doesn't mean you dislike the character. Idk why people find this so hard to understand.
I don’t hate Berdly. I love his character, I just also love to hate him. He’s a great guy to shit on. I find myself thinking “Your such an arrogant little prick… I love you”
@@fist-of-doom487 literally my reasoning too (except for the loving him part). He's just such an easy target to hate on, his character doesn't even change that much in his "redemption" arc...
@@thebookless3381 no. hes good.
Tbh I think Queen was supposed to be more like a “Saturday morning cartoon” villain than an actual threat.
Yeah a minor villain not the overarching bad guy for the long term.
Sonic SATAM Eggman: "Are you sure about that?"
Too similar with berdly, especially at the beginning.
@@ultimatewolfgaming4171
Think AoStH Robotnik, the one known for saying "SnooPING AS usual I see!"
It was funny though
I honestly love how post-snowgrave Berdly not waking up is portrayed, it leaves so much to be questioned. On one hand, he doesn’t turn to dust like monsters should, but on the other, the game specifically avoids saying he’s sleeping. It’s so chilling.
Do we know that monsters turn to dust in delta rune? I know it's a fact in undertale, but I don't know if the same applies here. In undertale as well, it's said that monsters are made of magic, but the only monsters we see use magic are only in the dark world, and they don't seem to be able to do it in the light world. It also seems like monsters have determination here, as Queen needed a lightener, not a human specifically, because of their determination to open a dark fountain.
There's that whole thing where mounters 'fall down' before dying of natural causes, so he could be in a pre death state. Personally i think he's in a coma or something if it isn't a fakeout tho.
@@Rogeryoo Amongst other things I seem to remember the priest dude in Town saying that since monsters don't leave a body when they die, they bury a memento of them in the graveyard instead. Gerson's hammer is buried where his body would be in the graveyard.
I mean, monsters also normally dont die on alternate realities made by dark fountains, so I still think that the possibility of dead Berdly's still there...
It brings to mind the plot point from Persona 5 that a person's shadow being killed in their palace causes the person in the real world to have a total mental shutdown, essentially being put into a catatonic state.
I personally disagree that Noelle has only one character trait in the normal route. The game tells us a lot about her relationship with Kris and how her family life is pretty f*cking broken.
And on the ferris wheel ride she talks about her interest in scary things.
@@LilyCat2399 .. which loops back around to how she’s interested in Susie, but I digress. I also think she’s got more than one character trait
Like her sister December, who is seemingly missing.
I wouldn't say "broken" per say, but they've definitely got some issues, as most families do. Especially with the shared trauma of losing someone.
@@dumpingstirs1143 Susie reminds her of the things she likes so it does make sense that she has such a massive crush on her.
I think the fact that Toriel is lying about why she was checking the car is interesting. If you check on her while she bakes, you see Susie catching her eating sugar out of the bag, but her excuse for checking the car is that she forgot the sugar (that she was already eating) in the car.
Ikr
Wait, then why did she go check the car, again? Did she hear the tires popping or something?
@@VinsBloodshotEye Probably the same reason she told the police.
She thought she "saw someone prowling around outside".
what
OR MAYBE, just maybe, there just simply wasn't enough sugar so Toriel went to get another bag from her car and Susie just ate the sugar from the remaining one....
Berdly is one of us. A gamer… Thats why everyone hates him, hes a reflection of us
Im 13 and this is deep
That’s exactly why I LOVE him
This needs to be pinned
thats _exactly_ why I don't like Berdly, looking at him is look looking at a funhouse mirror XD
They hated him because he told the truth.
6:18 I just want to say if you hit a gas line that easily with just a kitchen knife, I think your house may have some problems.
Yeah some engineering and architecture problems that do need to sue someone over!
That's why you don't use rubber for it
Wait was that the gas line KABOOM
Nah man, Kris is just SWOLE
That's not the gas line. That's the third fountain...
Absolutely insane how Toby Fox looked into the future and relied on the community to dunk on Berdly for no reason at all, in order to fully flesh out Berdly being an awkward gamer, Toby really is a good writer
In all seriousness, this was a pretty good video! I think Snowgrave is a very, VERY interesting part of DeltaRune, and I wonder what Toby's gonna do with it in future Chapters
Also, yeah, Spamton is a really great character, it's funny how Toby tweeted that he wasn't sure if people would even like him
I. See. You. *EVERYWHERE*.
Probably because if you stop to think about Spamton too much he gets very unnerving very fast, but that's also the case for Jevil and Photoshop Flowey so...
I found him quite creepy in that first encounter with him which made me not like him per say but thought he was a great character for how out of nowhere and disturbing it all kind of was only for everything to go back to 'normal' after he's gone.
Plot twist: Toby is making everything up on the fly.
The whole “your choices don’t matter” thing is so creepy to me. Even though Berdly dies in the snow grave route, what’s to say he wasn’t gonna die in the regular pascifist run of the game? You only postpone his inevitable death.
would freaking love it if toby just constantly made Scott’s predictions canon just for the hell of it
Toby actually seems to be involved in the fandom! Several parts of Chapter 2 were inspired by the fancomic "Paper Trail", including collecting the Darkners' Light World forms to restore the Dark World.
@@plant7371 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
There is no dark world, kris just caused a fire.
@@plant7371 ...............What? Has Toby ever said this? I think it was just a coincidence and that's it. Toby has been thinking of Deltarune for a LOOOOOOOOONG time, even longer than undertale. I think Toby probably came up with the "recruit" mechanic before, and paper trail probably just did something similar. Plus they are both kinda different. In Deltarune, you go to another Dark World, and you BRING them to yours, you don't need to "restore" anything, whereas in Paper Trail, you go collect the same darkners from the card world to RESTORE it. Saying it was based on Paper Trail is like saying Toby took inspiration from all the "Mike" fanart if "Mike" appears in chapter 3 and has a TV head. No. It's just a coincidence
Lol, game theory and fnaf relationship
Berdly is underrated, he gets a banger theme, goes through character growth, and apparently adapted *really* fast to the Dark World
It's only natural he adapted quickly he is a *gamer* after all.
He is cool, but he's also the biggest simp known to man.
Tragic backstory: won a spelling bee
Character development: changes sides and behaves exactly the same
develops a crush on a person he despised 3 minutes ago because she likes the same game as him
purposefully hurts her friend to "free her from a kidnapper"
basically the embodiment of narcissism, including after the palace intro (he's just on your side now so you don't see it as much)
Like alright, I get some people might like the character, it's just subjective preferences so nothing to really argue about. And I do think the writing for him is good.
But damn, why do so many people fail to notice he's supposed to be written as a character you love to hate?
@@swilson-738 second biggest
as usual only second to noelle
@UCGFADAzG_JXnuhU9gszOX-A YES, THIS RIGHT HERE! Like, he's a well-written character, I won't deny that, but when people get mad at you for being annoyed at his character when he's literally WRITTEN to be that annoying, stuck-up friend it just- u g h!
I would argue that the baddie not feeling like a threat and the whole chapter feeling like nothing was at stake was deliberate, because most of the characters see the whole thing as more just a fun little adventure, and as at they point out at the end, Queen literally doesn't know what she's doing and just thought it'd be a Good Idea, not even being aware that she'd endanger the whole world and so on (most of the main cast having actually forgotten about that little detail by then as well)
yep! let's review:
-"Queen" thought she was doing the right thing
-noodle thinks the whole thing is a dream and is definitely correctly spelled
-um, bird-- no... board- uh... *squints at smudged writing on hand* ...burghley... is either the same as noodle or dead
-samus the barney is almost intentionally trying to forget the danger in favor of having fun for her own sanity
-we actually don't know what kris thinks of the whole adventure and save the world thing, but. m o s s
-rat goat femboy is actually the major exception, basically playing the straight man to this chapter's comedic storyline and keeping the group grounded
-lancer
I also liked the chess parallels of King staying in his castle and only needing to make a move when threatened (his walking animation is also only one step at a time) being contrasted with queen going wherever she pleases and basically hanging out with the gang from the beginning.
@@champagnesupernova1839 -the original lancer
@@champagnesupernova1839 Ok goat and femboy I get but rat? Since when did goats have anything to do with rats.
@@jacobesterson its because his name is ralsei
"The big bad just follows you around and makes jokes and doesn't feel like a threat"
I mean, that's how pretty much every undertale character works
Undyne says "NGAAAAAAHHHHHH!!".
(While also throwing endless spears at you.)
Okay, Undyne may be the only boss who actually ties to feel like a threat, but really she's a nice fren
I think you forgot Flowey.
Flowey is... Special
Playing Chapter 2 along with the full game would probably feel more like the Snowdin part of Undertale, where the player is exploring the new area while dealing with the shenanigans of the new "threat"
Deltarune chapter 2 blew chapter 1 out of the water in almost every way, the visuals, the battles are more fun and impactful, with crazier bullet patterns, the overworld exploration is cleaner, faster and smoother, the story is more interesting and in depth, giving even more cool questions, and even answering some smaller ones
I liked the tertiary characters and music way more in ch1 tho
I like insulting chapter 2 even though i enjoyed it
@@g3n3ric_gam3r making fun of things is funny that’s just how it is
Also everybody ACT now
Honestly that makes me worried, chapter 2 really does make chapter 1 look worse in comparison
I’d say he’s wrong about Noelle’s character just being “hungy for Barney” in the normal route, given her arc was always about moving past the engrained idea of learned helplessness she had. It’s just in the snow grave route, she moves past it in a much darker way.
Yeah it’s the scenario of someone who is used to helplessness, is suddenly given power and they realize that they can take revenge with this power and no longer be helpless.
Ah, I see someone watched Daryl Talks Games' video about Noelle
@@devthegoogleuser6198
Shit I’ve been spotted
@@birdthebird3396 Ah a man of culture I see
you're digging into this too much, can't you see any serious topics are just edgy deviantart stuff? /s
Everyone talking about Berdly's character growth and how he's underrated, but you know who's really underappreciated?
The origonal Starwalker, that's who. He has a full on character arc, goes from being pissed off at everything, to joining the team just because other people are.
But THEN, he joins the party voluntarily at the carvrnival place, even if it's for one room, which shows that he's stopped being pissed at everything.
Then it all comes together when he lends the power of Starwalker to the Thrash Machine at the end of the normal route.
Now THAT's a character.
He’s a great character
The best character.
Who?
Thanks for the shoutout
My *Homie*
@@nicegoatdoctor8224 The original Starwalker
imma be honest that one scene where spamton falls and just dies really hits, like no fanfare, no explosions, no final scream of terror, he's just gone and like that really made me feel some sort of emotion that i don't know what to call
grief, i believe you're looking for the word grief
I call it humor. The scene was definitely very good but the timing and execution of him just falling and dying got a very insensitive laugh out of me
He's still alive.
Disbelief, maybe?
"A REAL BOY!" begins playing, the final string is cut, Spamton falls to the floor - but he is still alive, but this time snared by vines, unable to be freed.
I feel like Kris isn't trying to get rid of the player, but is actually the one who summons them there. Catti says something about them studying the dark arts together, so it's likely Kris summoned you rather than you just showing up in them one morning. However, after the fight with Spamtom, Kris realizes that if they cuts ties to the player completely, they might just drop dead, whereas they just seem half-dead when they remove your controls.
Ohhh I forgot about the dark arts part in the search history. And this theory could easily work, where they tried to summon the player in the Bunker but something went wrong and now Kris is like this, possibly forever.
Maybe it was Kris talking to us at the beginning of the first chapter.
@@fansundertable649 nah i think it's gaster
@@darklink8423 Me too. I honestly don't remember making that comment.
Actually, I think Kris might be the Knight who creates the dark fountains.
Honestly, I really do like Berdly. He's the kind of character that I roll my eyes at, but I always do it with a smile. I know that he has a little bit of character development, but it didn't feel like it changed much. I really do hope he returns in future chapters and we can see how he develops.
Honestly I didn't like Berdly at all. But it really speaks to how morally awful the snowgrave route feels (and what a good job Toby did making it viscerally feel that way) that it feels horrible to kill him even if you don't like him.
I love berdly, I’m more of a fan of characters that aren’t wholesome 100 uwu most of the time, I think breaking down the barriers of why they dislike you helps to give the character more depth, but I know the deltarune community would rather have a character that sucks your toes 24/7
@@ilikegoblo4665 Ralsei is a living proof of that lmao he has no other personality trait aside from "UwU fluffy good goat boy" and yet he’s usually gets 2nd in popularity polls while actually interesting characters like Berdly and Noelle get the short end of the stick
@@galvsparks6295 that’s why I hope he betrays kris and susie I definitely think he’s lying about the prophecy in some way since he’s the only character that actually presents the whole thing, lancer also says about the prophecy but ralsei said he was practicing it so I could see lancer listening in to learn ralseis version of it
@@ilikegoblo4665 honestly when I first heard those theories about evil Ralsei I just thought it was a bit of a stretch but now that I see how kinda bland he actually is I kinda want this to happen it would make him more interesting for sure
Okay but like is nobody going to talk about how Noelle has an older sister named December Holiday who has been missing and presumed dead for years? And how Noelle has been struggling with learned helplessness ever since?
Most people in general oversimplify Noelle's character and say that she only acts as a love interest. It actually seems like she will be one of the more important characters throughout future chapters.
@@danielj8085 Yeah like- SHES KRIS'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND!! That makes her more important than everyone ... also with the subject of "Dess is missing", I think it will be very important for the next chapters because Toby fox in the new deltarune update censored the word "December" in the berdly’s backstory so I'm pretty sure he really wants that to stay as a secret
And I’m pretty sure Noelle helplessness is also because of her mother
nope, any serious topics in toby's games are just edgy deviantart stuff!
@@namelastname5346 Bad opinion
@@danielj8085 that was sarcasm + i was quoting the video
The whole shtick with deltarune is that your choices don’t matter because everything is foretold in the prophecy.
The prophecy tells about Kris, Susie, and Ralsei.
Not about anyone else.
*Especially not Noelle and Berdly.*
Sure, you may not be able to change how _Kris’_ story ends because of the prophecy, but you can influence how the others are affected.
My money is on the game ending in a nuclear blast or some other form of apocalypse. That'd make the end result be pretty much the same no matter who you killed, spared, redeemed, etc.
@@athath2010 Maybe the roaring thing ralsei was talking about?
I think this is a very smart and rather important observation to make. The first game was trying to make a point about how none of your actions matter, but part 1's major cast only included those from the prophecy. Then chapter 2 comes out and gives you seemingly meaningful choices, but only affecting non prophecy characters in the form of snowgrave route and losing recruits permanently.
Personally I'm unsure if Toby has dropped the point about your choices not mattering, but it's literally impossible to know for sure until he releases future chapters.
When I saw the words "everything is foretold in the prophecy" and saw your icon, my brain went "hehehe super paper Mario"
@@nightfurywarriorcat8159 I was about to say: Says the guy with the Count Bleck profile!
Yeah, I get what you mean about Jevil but I feel like he was Toby entering into this whole optional secret boss thing
While Jevil was a great character… he was great for the very short time that we got to see him
Spamton fixes that a lot by actually being integral to the main story in a way, sure he’s not a big character but he has much more screen time and you’ll always see him in the main story even if you just speedrun right to the ending
It does make sense why there isn’t really anything to Jevil in Chapter 2 specifically but that does make it feel like he got the short end of the stick
I at least hope that Toby sticks to how he treats secret bosses with how he treated Spamton and it does seem like there’ll be quite a bit to the next one with the whole Shadow Mantle thing
At the very least, I would’ve liked it if maybe, when Kris was alone in the City, Jevil could speak to Kris when you interact with things if he’s in your inventory, since his armor or weapon technically IS him
Plus, that concept can lead to some fun interactions between the secret bosses in the future rather than just having them be only in their respective chapter while still keeping them as a background element to avoid disrupting the main story
Well, Jevil was locked away, he's purposefully cryptic and hidden because he is simple and has equally simple goals
He just got a dark crystal and lost it for the same reason Spamton did. At the end of the day he's just a card in a closet that hasn't been touched for years but still works to ease you into an important mechanic and plot element
the worst part is jevil is CLEARLY just as entrenched in the story as spamton was!!! he had deep ties to seam, completely changing his worldview with their time together, performed as a jester for the kings, connecting him to King, Lancer, and both the Knight (if they aren't someone we already know) AND Gaster! a level of fucked up character development comparable to spamton is literally right there and we just! dont! see! any of it!
i beg to differ, spamton is a very [BIG] character
*[BIG SHOT]* 200 you *[slime]*
Preach, but this comment did remind me, the weapon or armour technically is Jevil, and he’s sentient and everything evidenced by the line “I think it smiled at me” when you try and give the weapon or armour to Noelle. BUT, Jevil didn’t turn to stone obviously, so I’m wondering if it could pave the way for possible interactions with Jevil in the future. Maybe he helps guide you or whatever during different secret boss fights, because I’m pretty sure they acknowledge each other’s existence, with him saying there’ll be others stronger than him, and Spamtons potential reference to Jevil in the “Soon Ill be stronger than that [CLOWN AROUND TOWN]” comment.
Ralsei not wearing his hat was about the only disappointment in this game
would be pretty cool if we get to choose in c3
I like ralsei without his hat More in my opinion
Easy solution: add the hat, keep the face
But him without the hat is integral towards his character arc, he's opening up more towards his friends and hiding under a hat doesn't really show much at all.
@@urnix69 he could still wear the hat without the shadows hiding him, though. the way the shadows obscured things was basically magic to begin with.
tbh when Berdly realised he wasn't truly smart, but Noelle was, and he had to keep showing he was "smart", it seriously resonated with me. I've been in a similar situation when I was a kid, and eventually realised how terrible it was, up to shunning being smart away (sort of like him...).
I think the blue bird deserves a bit more love, even if he's an insufferable idiot. He had some major character growth, considering characters like him tend to never reflect on themself or change their ways.
My feelings exactly. Frustrating how much blind hatred bluebird gets in the community. Let's all dunk on a character who is at least trying to develop into a better person, I guess.
As another person with a similar situation to Berdly, it's a bit unnerving to see so many people cheering for his death. Yikes.
I did kinda feel some weight in the pacifist route. Mainly because it starts questions about the nature of the darkworld. Like "hey so If people can just walk in and stay here theoretically forever, how do we know who's actually from the real world"
Holy fuck, holy shit, I didn't think of that at all.
What if Asriel isn't really in College?
What if he's in Darkworld somewhere?
What if he's The Knight?
CLEARLY the reason for Kris creating a dark world is so that the pie can become it’s own giant area made from pie.
And since dark world food doesn’t count Kris won’t have to deal with ever getting full.
It’s the perfect plan.
Consider: the point of the genocide route isn't to make you feel bad for gaming, it's to point out how ridiculous and messed up the premise of most RPGs is
Exactly. It deconstructs the concept of systematically eliminating every creature in sight for the sake of power. Same with how it deconstructs the fact that the power to save and load is basically a cosmic horror story premise, being able to do anything you want with no consequences.
WATCH THIS VIDEO:::: SUMMONING ETHAN CRUMBLEY AT 3AM CHALLENGE GONE WRONG (ESCAPE FROM JAIL) *THE VICTIMS DESERVE IT?*
Yeah, Sans deliberately doesn't call you evil or anything. He just acknowledges that you're killing everyone for no reason other than "because you can" thus making you the new "Flowey" (which I still think is a neat narrative kickflip). There are certainly moments there that make you feel like trash, but it's just portraying how people would react to you killing everyone rather than being the point. Saying that the genocide route only exists to pull the rug and make you feel bad for playing it is reductive and kinda misses the whole narrative purpose of the route
Ironically, the genocide route does the least amount of moralizing and Sans doesn't even bother with the EXP/LV speech or even judging you for your actions as it's become so much more than just about "right and wrong" at that point. Even the Chara dialogue was specifically about what you hope to gain and how far you're willing to push the game rather than just scolding you for your actions.
Idk about y'all, but I still think that being a bad guy is pog-
An interesting premise but I still think it has poor execution.
In Undertale, the reason the Genocide Route and Sans’s dialogue in his fight is so preachy is because the game is ABOUT being merciful, and Genocide Route is what happens when you do the exact opposite. In Weird Route, you just find out how to throw the story off the rails, but the game doesn’t really need to tell you that it’s bad, you just see it all for yourself. Hell, the final boss of Weird Route isn’t some heroic antagonist like Sans, Spamton was the one who enabled you in the first place and is only fighting you because you’re now doing something he doesn’t like.
Also, side note: Spamton’s Weird Route dialogues has a lot of sexual undertones, most notably when he says that you and Noelle were “MAKING [Hyperlink Blocked]” which likely refers to gaining Level of Violence, aka LOVE. Quite the double entendre and makes the whole toxic abusive relationship part of Weird Route even more fucked up.
Spamton also calls Noelle a [Hochi Mama] which I think is both funny and creepy.
You think making [Frozen Chicken] with your [Side Chick]
is gonna let you drink up that [Sweet, Sweet] [Freedom Sauce]?
I don't thing spamton's weird route dialogue supposed to have sexual undertones but supposed to have a more peer pressure like undertone or something because manipulating people isn't always about forcing ones sexual desires upon others.
@@qishylia I know, but spambots are known to often lead to adult content
That double entendre was pretty smart ngl
I think the problem with the story not having stakes is that it’s still very early in the full game. Remember this is chapter 2 of 7, the story isn’t gonna be full on balls to the wall directly after the tutorial.
Also, idk what the point in critiquing it for not being serious enough is when you also complain about Undertale for being too edgy.
Serious ≠ Edgy
Take a look at some of the fanfics written in deviantart about Undertale. You'll find that it's difficult to take a story seriously when its edgy.
Berdly has risen above the cringe, as an oppressed gamer, and is free. That's why so many hate him.
Scott is officially a Berdly defender :)
Justice for gamers!!!
It's funny because he loves the Snowgrave Route and is okay with killing Berdly
he will make a fine addition to our ranks
YEAHS YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
...unsuprisingly
Chapter 1: "Your choices don't matter."
Chapter 2: Noelle-"He's just sleeping."
Chapter 3: Berdly-"That was a weird dream, especially with the defroster at the end."
OKAY. BACK UP. BACK UP. Susie and Noelle have a COMPLETELY different dynamic than Undyne and Alphys except on a complete surface level.
For starters, Susie and Undyne are totally different executions of "scary strong violence person." Let me put it this way: Undyne, much as I hate to admit it...completely makes sense to be a cop in this world. It just perfectly parallels her role in Undertale and fits with her heroism. Susie? Susie would never be a cop in any universe. It just doesn't work in the same way it just does for Undyne.
Then there's Noelle and Alphys. They're kind of similar personality-wise, with similar...tastes and shyness. I could totally see Noelle being a teacher. That said, Alphys' obsession with anime is something that doesn't really seem to be a thing with Noelle, based on her searches. She seems more focused on learning than Alphys overall.
Basically...Alphyne is nerd x jock. Suselle is punk x prep. That's the darn difference. I think we're supposed to notice the similarities, but we're also supposed to compare and contrast.
Also, Alphys doesn't completely cease to function when Undyne is around the way Noelle does around Susie. (And "only personality trait in normal route: thirsty for Barney" completely ignores the entire section of the game where she was your party member alone. Great job there.)
Edit: And Noelle is on the cross-country team. If you think Alphys has ever willingly participated in any physical sport, I don't think we played the same games.
I agree, I feel like Noelle and her crush on Susie are oversimplified way too much. She's actually one of the more complex characters in the game, imo.
FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS THIS THANK YOU SO MUCH
“Wait was that the gas line-“
Famous last words
kaboom
@JACKSEPTICEYE'S DAD DESERVED IT LMFAO …do you need a friend?
@JACKSEPTICEYE'S DAD DESERVED IT LMFAO I have no words, what the fuck.
5:43 best theory on what actually happened. Kris didn’t slash the tires, someone else did.
Toriel bouta file a restraining order on Asgore
@@spudowmahbrethren9392 oof
Oh God the pie strikes back
knowing what toby did last time, it's never out of the possibility range
Deltarune 3: Revenge of the Snails
Berdly is literally the best written character in the whole chapter and everyone hates him because he's mildly annoying.
Also Jevil is already with you, check your inventory he's in there, either as a weapon or armor depending on how you beat him.
weapon, yeah.
armor, debatable depending on how you perceived jevil's pacify speech.
@@pikaspoop5042 Depending on the name, I think he literally gave his own tail as armor
in fiction, being annoying is a worse sin than being evil
@@alexanderleonardi3625 How could you say something so controversial yet so based?
One thing I dislike about the fandom is how much they're clinging to Undertale. Toby said from the start that Deltarune is an entirely different story but so many people are talking about Kris being Chara just because their eye is red in literally 2 cutscenes. I feel like Deltarune is trying to tell a story that feels far more impactful than Undertale's was, especially with Snowgrave. In Undertale the story was essentially just everyone dies, everyone lives, or nothing interesting happens. In Deltarune it already seems like the story is far more complex
I’m 50/50. Its true that Toby said to treat DR like its own thing, and a lotta folks have! But the game itself, upon first launch, asks that you play UT first.
Kinda hard for people to do that when the exact same models are being used
Well Is kinda hard to not relate deltarune to undertale when there are a Lot of similarities between these Two games
Having Undertale characters in Deltarune seems really counterproductive if Toby was trying to differentiate Deltarune from Undertale
@@dubioustheatreyt8096 How exactly does it “ask that you play UT first”? I’ve only played Deltarune, never tried Undertale, yet it’s still a coherent story on it’s own.
i find it interesting that after completing Chapter 2, you still consider Queen to be the "big bad". in Daryl Talks Games' video on Chapter 2 he considered Queen to be the hero of the story rather than the villain, an idea i subscribe to as well. you can tell very early on that Queen isn't really evil or anything, she is ultimately trying to help in her own flawed way- especially when it comes to Noelle. in my opinion Spamton is actual antagonist of Chapter 2. while he is certainly tragic and tortured, he is the only character in Chapter 2 that seems truly opposed to the party and their goals. when Queen has the upper hand near the end and threatens to kill the party, she can't follow through with it. Spamton, on the other hand, very much so wants to kill Kris and take their soul despite the fact that he recognizes them as a fellow victim
kinda surprised the music didnt hit as hard for you in Chapter 2 as well, i've had so many more tracks from this chapter manage to worm their way into my ears than Chapter 1
Bro just because she has good intentions doesn’t mean that what she’s doing (enslaving people or turning them into mindless drones) isn’t evil. Yeah, she cared about Noelle, but she was still trying to control everyone and everything. She fully intended to kill Kris, Susie and Ralsei at the end. She only didn’t because Noelle convinced her to change. That was when she stopped being a villain. A character doesn’t have to go full-on Joker to be evil.
this is because he chooses not to actually play at all. this is shown by the fact he thinks noelle's only trait is being a lesbian
I do think that Kris hitting a gas line would be funny. But I also unironically think that the Dark World Kris makes at the end is a Red Herring. We are going to be in there for like 10 minutes because everyone inside is rolling out the red carpet for "The Knight" and doing whatever we say. Then we are going to seal it and find another Dark World somewhere else where 90% of the chapter takes place.
Would be a good way to throw the player off but I heard chapter 3 was going to be super short
Hitting a gasline is funny as fuck because knowing Kris, they actually have no determination in their save points.
The game made sure to inform us that fountains are created by determination, a knife, and smoke.
Deltarune is based on how much we know Undertale, faking us out that Kris was 'Chara'. so it could also be based on out assumption that "red" means "determination".
Like a red herring.
@@sarrynight Yellow is determination. In Undertale one of the first save points specifies that it’s determination itself. So it’s yellow, not red. The red soul? That’s a different soul entirely, what is it? Who knows
I think that the ending implying that kris is the knight is the red herring of this ending. A lot of people are saying that but I personally don't think that.
@@ZappoNinja ....................................................The yellow soul is justice. That's not straight up said, but it's implied. And... no save point speciffies the "color" of determination??? They just say "you're filled with determination", they don't say "this shiny star represents determination" or anything similar. Plus, if the Red Soul ISN'T determination, and DETERMINATION is what controls the timeline, why is OUR soul Red?
This game felt like an elaborate shitpost with a hundred layers of irony and self-awareness slapped onto it.
I fucking love it
@JACKSEPTICEYE'S DAD DESERVED IT LMFAO im sorry sir but i dont know the context of this comment
That’s honestly the perfect way to sum it up.
@@Thebooooy
Just ignore it. Report and move on.
@@yourcollegedebt8384 ok
I love Berdly's character arc, and he's really funny, just like all the others. Give my boy the respect he deserves.
“This handy-dandy knife will make a trip to the- wait was that the gas line?”
10/10
Everyone talks about "your choices don't matter" like it's a ubiquitous theme, but it was a lot less present in chapter 2 overall. Heck, even in chapter 1 the ending changed depending on what you did. Sure, the king ends up captured regardless, but with the recruit system and characters mentioning past events, it seems weird to treat "your choices don't matter" as though it's *the* theme. Whenever people talk about Snowgrave they'll often try to write in a loophole for why your choices still don't matter but you're capable of derailing a route that hard; I think it makes more sense that "your choices don't matter" is a fake theme, and the theme is really about how people act when they *think* their choices don't matter.
i always thought the same, but here's how i thought of it, the characters almost always interrupt your choices in dialog BUT you still have a choice in your actions. the phrase "your choices don't matter" i think this connects to dialog as anything important is cut off but your actions on the other hand DO matter (i'ma just wait for the moment the more annoying fans will bitch once the final chapter calls them out for doing things like "snowgrave" but assuming "their choices didn't matter" applies to their actions lol)
I agree with your perspective. I also want to add on the Fanon idea that we were being told by Toby in a meta way "your choices dont matter" as though we're a character. In Fanon Kris and the soul we use to pilot them are separate entities, Kris having their own life and wants with us as the soul doing our own thing. Frisk was an empty avatar for us to inhabit, Kris was not. And unlike Frisk and other avatars we inhabit in other games (many of which we customize) Kris fights back against our control. When Toby said our choices dont matter, he was talking to us expecting another empty avatar and to Kris as we were forced into their body. When Kris agrees with our actions, there is a violently positive reaction from Kris("Kris are you ok?" "NO. IM NOT!"). When they disagree, they're quiet or surprised, as though they cant believe that an untrue thing came from their mouth so easily, or they're trying to suppress our answer but cant.
Toby seems to be treating us as the soul as a character alongside Kris. And our choices dont matter, in that he writes where we go, rather than it being an open world for us to do as we see fit. Our choices do matter, just not in the ways we'd expect
I agree, I've been thinking about it more like "to what extent do your choices matter" because even though the final outcomes of chapter 1 and 2 are the same, the ways they get there and what that does to the people around you has far-reaching consequences. Even little things like the thrash machine still has a small impact in chapter 2, when we thought it was just going to be for that one gag in chapter 1.
I saw this somewhere before, but I think the concept of "your choices don't matter" is meant to work similarly to Flowey's "it's kill or be killed" mentality/message in Undertale. With that, you could either follow it and go Genocide, or work against it and go Pacifist. The same applies to Deltarune. Yeah the status quo doesn't seem to be shaking as much as it did when you made these choices in Undertale, but we're beginning to see cracks. Ranging from who you recruit to be in your town or who stays trapped in the Dark World, to following through with Spamton, to even possibly eliminating one of the characters (Berdly) from the story entirely, it's safe to say Toby is using a similar trick again.
I felt like "your choice doesn't matter" was more towards Kris, and Kris is doing what they can to make their choice matter. So far it seems like they try to take charge in brief areas where the player can't control them, like ripping out their SOUL in ending cutscenes, or expressing certain dialogue choices with sarcasm since they usually have control of their tone of voice.
i like that there's genuinely NOTHING wrong w/ berdly. yea he's annoying but he cares about noelle plus he's a gamer so bonus points for that.
as for noelle, i disagree w/ her having one character trait in the normal route. it shows she's more than having a crush on susie. she doesn't have a great home life w/ her dad in the hospital & her sister possibly missing or even dead. her friendship w/ kris & how they go way back.
noelle is an interesting character that i'm glad we got to delve deeper into, same w/ berdly!
The Queen even says as much that there's nothing wrong with him, he's just kind of annoying.
"We truly are oppressed"
I laughed WAY too hard at that
Considering Spamton knows about Jevil, this confirms the the little clown dude has been to and has affected people in other dark worlds. I don't think it's impossible to see more of him or his lore in future chapters. Jevil is one of the few characters who understands the meta nature of the game/world, so to me it seems he's still gonna be relevant to the story.
if you beat him up you will always see him in the form of Devilsknife in your inventory
@@armageddongirl612 yeah, I know. I was wondering if having him as an item would trigger some bonus content that expands on his character (more that it already does). Since it's clear that doing the bonus bosses is leading up to something.
@JACKSEPTICEYE'S DAD DESERVED IT LMFAO Is this fun to you? Humans always find a way to suprise me in a new way.
@@DerVasto It's spam, don't waste your time. Just report it and don't give it attention
@@Ginsekami_Ammy I see the spam all over, just wanted to see if I get any kind of reaction. Quality control of trolling, if you will.
2:44 great gravity falls reference thank you
One thing I love about Berdley is that he thinks he’s a badass and he IS a badass... but he isn’t a badass for any of the reasons he thinks.
He thinks his strength is his smarts, but as we found out, he’s not actually that smart.
However despite not being smart, he’s the top of the class, which, even with Noelle’s help, means he’s an extremely hard worker.
On top of that, he’s an absolute POWERHOUSE in combat, always fighting multiple people and putting up a good fight. He also has the willpower to resist mind control and RIP A PLUG out of HIS FACE while it was ELECTROCUTING HIS ARM! That’s some badass stuff.
Not only that, but we see in the Snowgrave Route, Berdley does genuinely care about Noelle and her wellbeing as a friend and he pays for it with his life.
So in summary, Berdley thinks he’s a badass because he’s smart, but in actuality, he’s a badass because he’s a hard working combat savant who genuinely cares about his friends.
Sure he’s abrasive and annoying but as we find out in game it’s because he thinks no one will value him if they don’t think he’s smart. He’s just a scared kid who wants to be important to people and I can empathize with that.
And the thing I also like about that is that it ties in perfectly to his self esteem issues since he thinks the only way people will give him attention is by being smart (since it was like this that he got his first sight of attention) even though he has other traits that could give him attention and make him likable (like you said his strength and bravery)
Dont forget he can most likely wave dash the best in class
People didn't hate on berdly cause he was a gamer, they hated on him cause he's the type of kid to remind the teacher of homework *on purpose*
4:03 berdly isn't actually dead he is just in a permanent coma which may or may not be worse than death
My theory is that he might thaw when the roaring starts
Video is cool and did make me chuckle a couple of times, but I can't hide that I'm a bit disappointed with how shallow some of the script was.
Noelle's only character trait being her crush? Did you uhhh miss her entire character arc and her backstory and the numerous details pointing to her significance? Just as an example.
I mean I get you're pressed to release content within a somewhat reasonable timeframe, but I think you're kind of limiting your own enjoyment of the game if you experience it on this level... to reach some of the conclusions you've presented in the video. Though it could just be me expecting in-depth analysis from a short animation made for laughs lmao
Geez, how surprising that a character doesn't have much depth when they've ONLY APPEARED FOR A SINGLE CHAPTER.
@@KnightmareDigitalis I mean, Noelle has a ridiculous amount of depth for instance, even Queen has a lot going for her under her humorous demeanor, hell, even Catti who got like 20 lines in the whole game mysteriously seems to know a lot. There's plenty of depth to give a character in a chapter. Unless this point is about the fact that Berdly can still develop, in which case sure I guess
@@abcdef-ms9mb Ridiculous is extreme hyperbole, but she does have plenty of depth in all of the ways that people have been describing. She's my least favorite character out of the main cast because Ralsie is adorable and Suzie is... Suzie, but that doesn't mean she's hollow. People are too harsh on a character that has adequate development in the first chapter she's properly introduced in, in a series that's likely to have much more content to come.
@@jacobesterson ridiculous for a single chapter is what I meant, sorry if I worded it poorly.
I'm saddened but not that surprised that people judge her so harshly to be fair. While it's clear to anyone who pays attention during the game (apparently that rules out quite a lot of people already...) that she's an interesting character in an interesting position, a lot of her actual depth requires you to go looking for it. Unlike with most others though, you can actually find plenty of her context right now if you try, which characters like Kris and Ralsei notably lack thus far - as in, there's only signs that they have a lot of interesting potential, but we can't currently infer much from the information we're given.
@@abcdef-ms9mb Noelle is easily my favorite character in the cast. As soon as I met her, I felt an instant need to protect her. Sure, her lines about Susie were pretty constant, but saying it's her only character trait is a little ridiculous. Now the thing is, the need to protect is what changed her from "shy deer girl" to "oh wait she can actually stand up for herself." She goes through a character arc in chapter two, the problem is that its right at the end, meaning that we don't get to explore how she's changed besides one scene with Queen and one with her dad.
Berdly is, hands down, my favourite character and i'm sad to see a (relative) big part of the fandom bully him so much.
By hating Berdly the fandom proves that it hates itself to a degree.
@@jacobesterson i mean it checks out
Finally, somebody who recognizes the mightiness and metahumor that is berdly. Very cool.
I saw a thing a while ago that can apply to how people feel about Berdly
It was something like "Their war crimes are fake but my annoyance is real", about how a really evil character is less unlikeable than an annoying one.
@JACKSEPTICEYE'S DAD DESERVED IT LMFAO You know you could make it less obvious that your are trolling right?
@@deringjosuegarcia1531 Probably another spam bot. I doubt they even know you're replying to them. Just report and move on.
When I was playing chapter two with my buddies and the ending happened and I was like “omg Scott falco called it” and my friends were like “who?” So we spent the rest of the day binging your content. It was fun! Thanks for being you. Your content is great!
_Truly, the worst part of Toby Fox's games is the people who play them._
I loved Berdly too!!! He was one of my favorites, as well as his theme
I'm going to go out of my way and say that the prediction of this video doesn't have a good chance of happening...
BUT IT'S NOT ZERO
"If the chances aren't zero percent then that's as good as 100 percent"
- Some nerd with a drill
I fucking LOVE berley. He's just a self-concious dork and I love his dialogue so freaking much
I love Berdly so much and will fight for him.
Seeing as how we got a bit of jevil in spamton’s theme, imagine how awesome it would be if the next secret boss’s theme had a tiny bit of both jevil’s and spampton’s theme in it
I think that, that part of the song is going time be in every secret bosses theme
I like Berdly. Annoying prick with a heart and statue of gold
I like the idea that Kris isn't the knight, he just cut the gas line with his knife
Really good video! The editing, original animations, gags, it makes a really entertaining video :)
Only people with refined taste have the capacity to like Berdly~
I swear, Toby can make any character trope likable.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-
“Wait, was that the gas line?”
That actually makes the ending hilarious yet terrifying.
Scott dies
3:38
Murdering countless people with ease is massively unrealistic and uncommon in real life.
Singling out and trapping an already vulnerable little girl with hopes and dreams of her own, and then abusing her until she just gives up and mentally breaks? That's realistic, and comparatively very common.
that opening joke about Toby Mac had me dying in literally the first 5 seconds of the video. Awesome Video Scott! I enjoyed both of your Deltarune videos and i even occasionally come back to the Jevil's day out animation. And I cant believe you actually called the opening of chapter 2, Kris really wanted that pie
Lol how is Noelle one note? There's her relationship with Susie, her relationship with Kris, her relationship with Berdly, her relationship with Queen, her relationship with her mother, and her relationship with her father, all of which are fully explored and developed. There's additionally her relationship to power and being told what to do, her relationship to scary things and fear in general, and her arc across the story of learning to stand on her own two feet and decide for herself. She's probably one of the best (or at least most intricate) characters Toby's ever written. Just because the character didn't land for you doesn't mean it's not multifaceted.
Also, I agree, Berdly's gr8 lol
Genocide route was a metaphor for manipulating games to conform to more generic tastes, not “Violence is bad”. Undertale is about being friends with weird monsters so it’s fitting that it’s moral wants the player to be friends with weird games
Yeah, that’s a fair interpretation. Through both Undertale and Deltarune chapter 2 the game constantly makes it harder for you to keep going, so you’re effectively brute forcing the game to play how you want it to.
@@goroakechi6126 Because genocide and weird routes are bad endings, you're not even meant to play them
They exist because they add depth to the story but Toby made damn sure that they wheren't fun to get trough
I'd like to present an alternative interpretation. A guy I really like to watch pointed out that regardless of the layered meta narrative, ultimately, Undertale is a story about a small child and a hostile land attempting to murder them. It doesn't matter what their justifications were, just that they are 6 dead kids in and looking to score dead kid 7. Ultimately, given every monster that engages you in a fight is making the conscious choice to approach you and engage with you in a hostile fashion, Frisk engaging in self defense is perfectly reasonable. And the way the game beats you over the head and tells you that you are the bad guy for being a small child just trying not to be killed and have your soul literally harvested for ingredients is very hamfisted.
@@Xahnel
I’d say that’s a bit faulty. Genocide ending requires you to kill EVERYONE, not just the monsters that attack you. That kind of removes the ‘just a child protecting themself’ defense.
@@goroakechi6126
and a lot of the monsters are not even trying to kill you
I love Berdly. He's the character I love to hate and seeing him being a stupid smartboy always brings be joy, because he's almost guaranteed to have some comeuppance immenently
0:07
Update: It has a collection on consoles now.
The sad part about the battle network games is that they actually do have a virtual console release (though sold individually not as a collection) But for whatever reason they decided to put the amazing handheld series onto the WII U home console instead of the handheld 3ds for reasons that defy all logic.
there's always hope of another proper collection on modern consoles (my god playing BN on a pc is a fun thought)
@@ZeroTheHeartlessKing
It's kinda fitting BN works well with a keyboard.
Scott: WE can people that do freaked up stuff! But being a gamer is to much.
This video is so good!
5:43 is were the best part starts of the end of the video.
"the handy dandy knife will make a quick trip to- wait was that a gas line?"
3:25 is a perfect example of the top notch sound design in these videos!
The summary of the part 2 ending got me…
I don't think Kris is trying to free themselves from the Player's Control as that would be a short sighted narrative.
If it was that simple we could do nothing and let Kris take control and observe, the entire story and relevance along with Kris in Ch2 knowing it isn't time to wash their hands yet implies there is a lot more going on then we realize and Kris is interacting with someone off screen.
Same with Ralsei talking to Kris, Ralsei is only upset about not getting a conversation with Kris if you do the Weird Route... which means it appears the Dark World and the Player's Actions are used to figure out who's side the Player is on.
This can be expanded on more with how Toriel saw someone outside... but didn't recognize her own child? Remember Kris is the only human making it hard to mistake their outfit/appearance.
After all if Kris is a good person capable of handling things on their own... then who wouldn't let them?
It would be like forcing the player in Undertale to do Genocide and then calling the player, not the character, a monster.
We can't just give Kris control, our very presence prevents Kris from taking control mostly, along with Kris possibly not being able to survive without us to begin with (hence why he moves awkwardly during the brief time he does take control)
I thought Berdly was annoying the first time, but slowly started warming up to him.
6:14 wheeeeen youuuuuuuu waaaaaaaaaalk awayyyyyyyyy
That ending summary was amazing. I still like the idea that Toriel in dark world burns the place down thinking "It's just a videos game" and they awaken to a house fire. Which they then blame on the gas line breaking / the oven being left on since they never finished actually baking the pie.
That could be possible but I don’t think Toby would do the same manipulation twice back to back.
How's this for fucked up:
When Noelle casts Snowgrave she says something along the lines of "I couldn't see what happened. There was too much snow."
That's not referring to the spell she just used. It's what she said to Asgore the night her sister disappeared.
Honestly this is one of my favorite videos of yours, sans the kinda forced ending bit. You've clearly gotten better, keep up the good work! Also I'm glad I'm not alone in liking the gamer bird.
Interesting to note is that the ending does change based on how you act, i.e. violence means Berdly gets his arm messed up, he dies in snowgrave, or he’s fine if you do pacifist. Plus, how many recruits you end up with directly helps your max hp for the giga Queen fight. Choices look like they’re starting to matter
1:44 "The big bad of the chapter keeps following you around and joking with you."
That's... Pretty much how it works in Undertale, yeah. Queen is the reason why this second chapter felt more "Undertal-y" to me. Chaos king was just kinda there at the end, but Queen was talking to us and we got to know her throughout the whole chapter, like just like we did with Toriel, and Mettaton, and Papyrus.
And since this is the second chapter, and Queenie becomes our wacky roommate... Yeah, narratively, she's kinda like the Papyrus of Deltarune. I'm not saying they're the same, just pointing out the narrative connectiins.
I mean, in Undertale, in Snowdin, it didn't feel like much was at stake either.
Soul UT: 3:01.
Soul DR:I'm sorry Noelle, and not anything about Susie.... And Noelle!
Awesome video man! It was really funny and insightful. Keep it up :D
It's funny that they say you're choices don't matter but then your choices literally shape the entirety of the following chapter.
Well damn, he actually did one for chapter two, great stuff
I feel the same about Snowgrave. I never really felt like I would enjoy a Genocide run, but the Snowgrave route is a completely different story. I've played through it from start to finish 3 times now. I love how it has this "You and me against the world" vibe. Even though we are driving Noelle insane, aren't we also making her uniquely aware of the true nature of her universe. Which is basically what Gaster did with Jevil and Spamton. Sanity is overrated anyway.
"The greatest crime a fictional character can commit is being annoying. The video game war crimes are fictional, but the irritation of an annoying character is real."
Those secret boss speedruns really are addictive. Good music and an awesome battle. 👌🏾
2:10 I’m so glad someone finally mentioned this
Also the joke guess at what the ending meant at the end of the video was really funny
Burghly might be one of my favorite character
This side of salt is officially my favorite so far. Great content!
FINALLY IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
I messed with my friend by sending him a lot of Berdly related things and ironically saying how much i love him but now i think hes one of my favourite characters. Go figure
I really loved this take! I also think Berdly gets an unfair amount of flack from the fandom. He's just a dorky and awkward kid.
Also, I absolutely love that as a content creator you're critical of your older works and conscious of how your ideals are constantly changing.
I prefer my idea that Kris wanted to do a sick vape trick while everyone's asleep, and that the knife is actually a juul
This video really put into perspective thoughts and really gave me a greater appreciation for Snowgrave's existence. Great stuff Scott!