Thanks, the threads were not prefect but still usable. I've done the same while making backing plates but with a scribe line and the results were perfect.
Hello Winky, you made another great tool, I loved your multigrip stop, that is an excellent tip, you really have a lot of EnGenius ideas, I love your channel, thanks for sharing, looking forward to your next video, cheers from magicbytes 😷
That is a clever design that Wells Index did on the drawbar, you would think that other companies would of made something similar. I like the double end ball wrench that you made for it. Your getting a flywheel effect from it. The shallow Brown & Sharpe taper sure wants to lock you can tell the difference compared to the Morse taper. It sure is turning out to be one nice mill Mark.
Either way would work but I really like that I can give it a good smack and make it spin. After I made this video I showed my brother in law the tool. He said you should have used a 1/2" drive socket so that the wrench would also work on your motor tension. That would have been perfect... I welded a 1/2" square drive socket to the new wrench.
one tip, when test fitting, you can mark and remove the chuck from the spindle, esp. if it is of the cam stud type, this makes indexing easy, only one way it can go back in, so being true to the synchronization of the lead screw and the tooling which has already been established so far.
I've actually done that a lot but in this case the weight and size of the chuck would have made it hard to do. The threads on the spindle were in rough shape and I wanted to be able to feel the resistance of the fit.
Those self ejecting drawbars are good. You did a nice job building it. I made one for my mill but unlike your spline, mine did not have a thread at the top. I had to tap an internal thread in my spline and make up a bolt that screws into the spline, and has a hole in the middle for the drawbar. It was getting a bit tight on room, but it does work well like your one.
I hung a small 3\8 butterfly air gun on a retractable real above my milling machine and that's made my life so much better . Hit it with the air gun to tighten it up and hit it to loosen it and the collect falls out in my hand. Love it.
Man, that rattling gear would drive me nuts ! Lol, you probably don’t even hear it anymore. 🤷♂️ maybe the camera makes it sound worse than it actually is. But Joe Pie did a video about threading from the head stock out to the tailstock by flipping the tool upside down and running it backwards. it seemed a bit barbaric but out of curiosity I tried it. Haven’t threaded up to a blind or hard stop since. It just works so well. Anywho. This old video is a good one. 👍🏻
Gears on the lathe? Yeah, i agree, the camera does make them worse but I sill do not like the noise. As for threading in reverse, it is absolutely a great way to do it. however, if you have a screw on chuck it's not a great idea.
Wow, that's a brilliant design. I like it a lot too. Saves shocking the spindle. I also like your spinning wrench as well. A future project. Thanks. Tony
I'm always impressed by your content that's different than the general repeated "beating of the horse" by most home machinist channels. So now you have a better mill then the RF30 type. You know that professional machinist still call these bridgeport type mills, heavy duty drill presses. But I don't know how I could get a 10 ton machine into my shop, let alone down my gravel driveway where the fork lift would sink to it's axles. And I know how to ease up on the depth of cuts. I have learned that side milling sometimes requires coolant. But I hate the mess. Should be interesting to see your future content with this mill. I don't know if Vevor has a Kurt quality knockoff vise for you to review.
Ha... a drill press. I'm going to call mine a mill. The RF 30 lacked precision and the round column was a joke but it was a fairly solid drill press. I'm happy I got this new mill but the RF30 served me very well. I bought a vise supplied by HHIP. Oddly, it sold for just over $300 on the HHIP site (and several others) but HHIP was selling it for $142 via amazon. I wanted to get something good... the Chinese vise on my RF30 was not very good. With that being said... it looks the same as what Vevor sells... so who know if i actually got something better. It seems to be a good one. The only down side is that its what they call a CNC vise. It has to coolant gutter around the vise. I may try flood coolant anyway. HHS end mills cut better than the carbide but coolant is a must. I was surprised about the HHS. I had a new carbide 1/2 end mill and was making hold downs for the new vice. I broke the end mill and swapped it for a 3/4" HHS. It cut like butter compared to the carbide. I guess the HHS was a lot sharper.
winky, for internal threads for a blind hole I always like to cut threads coming away from the chuck as it is easy to find the bottom of the hole using a dial indicator or hard stop and there is no chance of a bad ending. I think I would also have made a plug with male threads so that you didn't have to take the piece out to test fit. In any case, as usual, a successful end to the job.
Thanks! The plug is not a bad idea but I'd have to make a nut to test the plug... long process. The best way would have been to pull the quill on the mill. Threading in reverse is not really a good option with a screw on chuck.
@@WinkysWorkshop yes sorry mine has 3 cam lock studs that means it can't back itself off. The side jobs needing to be done first to make the main job more efficient are what makes my grey matter come alive but being retired time is one of the few things I have in sufficient quantity. Keep up the good work.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop I have some. The end result is about the same. I'm not sure which is faster but I've had at least one failure in the past using wires and making a plug. 3/4"-20 is kind of an odd size. I thought about using wires to measure the mill but the threads were kind of messed up. The vise grips were a bit crude but index work in the chuck work perfectly well. Locking collars and scribe mark is a better method than vise grips. I didn't have the right collar.
@@WinkysWorkshop, You could have made a new collar for your collection, Lol, it’s almost unending the amount of side jobs a primary job can create. I’ve watched a fairly new machinist CZcamsr that numbers the side jobs (and shows them), he highlights them and I think they probably have more footage than the original project does. Depending on the number of side jobs his project has, it’s like getting four or five short videos for the price of one. Your videos are similar because you show us your side adventures, like your spanner wrench at the end, you just don’t number and make a big deal out of them. I was thinking about welding something on a boxend wrench so it would stay on the nut of the drawbar, you outdid yourself with the speed wrench that you made, nice job, thanks for sharing.
I have a glass scale fitted on the Z axis of my mill. Have broken it more than once hammering a No. 3 Morse taper loose. Guess what my next project is.
Nice design!! My Model 645 has that same odd threaded top of the spline. And I've used a brass chunk to break the R8 loose. That flywheel driver is just what's needed to speed up collet changes. I'll have to modify your design some, but great solution to making a self-ejecting drawbar.
Mark, This was a very interesting video, my Rexto Horizontal needs a "real drawbar" such as yours. It is presently out fit with a 1/2" threaded rod, looks like your idea will work with a couple of changes as there is no threaded top piece as of yet. Good stuff, TY
good work. My old bridgeport C-head has a simmilar kind of sleeve that the drawbar rides in. I had to make that sleeve without ever seeing what the original thing looked like. I Now that I see your mill I wonder if my mill head had or can have a self- ejecting drawbar deal too .
my drawbar ends flush with the top of the quill shaft extension, like a flanges bolt. remember some tapers are longer then others so you may need a spacer, because it can be too short!! My quill shaft goes below that top surface!! This would not work on mine a tall
Ha, nothing is ever simple. My mill has a MT4 taper which uses a 5/8-11 thread for the draw bar. The through hole is 9/16, go figure. Oh well, I get to make two adapter fittings first, one for the collet chuck and one for the boring head. Good thing we enjoy making stuff. John 🇨🇦
Well weeks later and I have finished the self ejecting draw bar. The collet holder and the boring bar are threaded 5/8-11 but I can only fit a 9/16 draw bar in the mill. So I made 2 5/8-11 to 1/2-13 adapters and threaded both ends of a 9/16 rod 1/2-13. The top mounting piece threads onto the spindle with a 1-14 left hand thread. They're actually super easy as you're threading out of the part. So thanks for the idea and motivation. John 🇨🇦
Well there was a threaded area in the top of the splined shaft and I suspected it was something like what I made. I contacted wells index and they sent me a couple pictures so I deigned a slightly different version... possibly a little better I think.
@@WinkysWorkshop Well, mine does not have a threaded part. It has a smooth top above the spline. The draw bar that came with mine has a shoulder and a square drive on the end, for 9/16 wrench.
@WinkysWorkshop on some bars you need to. Some bars you can't back out regardless without trashing them, unfortunately. But it's actually not hard to make insert tooling, ao it's a good excuse to diy something.
Here's a drawing without dimensions and photo of the original bar from Wells Index. If you'd rather buy a draw bar Wells Index still sells them but they are high priced. I never took measurement when I made it, I just made it to fit. Obviously the draw bar is 1/2" and the cylinder need to fit in the pulley spline so it does not limit travel of the quill. Note: the coper colored item in the drawing is a brass washer. drive.google.com/file/d/1-cYDBZoxwBG4LTzRB2g0kqx80gr1wfiN/view?usp=drive_link
Really interesting drawbar system, and a damn clever way to re-index a threaded part back in the 3-jaw. Will have to remember that one!
Thanks, it worked but it needs to be more absolute. The threads were usable but looked a little rough.
don't even have a mill. watched and enjoyed the whole video.
Thanks Robert
I like the vice grip trick.
I like it a lot.
Thanks, the threads were not prefect but still usable. I've done the same while making backing plates but with a scribe line and the results were perfect.
nice video Mark.thanks for sharing keep up the good work
Thanks Rick
Hello Winky, you made another great tool, I loved your multigrip stop, that is an excellent tip, you really have a lot of EnGenius ideas, I love your channel, thanks for sharing, looking forward to your next video, cheers from magicbytes 😷
Thanks and thanks for the great comment!
That is a clever design that Wells Index did on the drawbar, you would think that other companies would of made something similar. I like the double end ball wrench that you made for it. Your getting a flywheel effect from it. The shallow Brown & Sharpe taper sure wants to lock you can tell the difference compared to the Morse taper. It sure is turning out to be one nice mill Mark.
I agree, the drawbar is a good design. I can't imagine why others haven't done the same.
I knew what you where making, or what it was suppose to do, just couldnt see how. Works great. should last for years. thks for sharing.
You're welcome, thanks!
You are a genius Winky. That is a very nice drawbar. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
I'm not sure I'd go that far but it is a great way to use a draw bar. It's similar to the original.
Great outcome Mark.. I would use a socket with a ratchet handle instead of a ring spanner or that gadget you made.. Regards from Australia.
Either way would work but I really like that I can give it a good smack and make it spin. After I made this video I showed my brother in law the tool. He said you should have used a 1/2" drive socket so that the wrench would also work on your motor tension. That would have been perfect... I welded a 1/2" square drive socket to the new wrench.
Great edition to the shop! These things make all the difference
I agree! Thanks
Fantastic ! I am definitely doing this for my Husky 😁
It's nice to not use a hammer
It’s an absolute pleasure to watch
Thanks Rick!
Job well done winky, great video, keep'um coming..
Thank you! Will do!
Very clever design, well executed Mark.
Thanks David, I have to give wells index some credit too.
Very nice! I like that drawer beneath the lathe. Thanks for sharing. 😊
Thanks, yeah the draws are very handy and in a good place. Unless you leave one open and fill them with chips. HA
one tip, when test fitting, you can mark and remove the chuck from the spindle, esp. if it is of the cam stud type, this makes indexing easy, only one way it can go back in, so being true to the synchronization of the lead screw and the tooling which has already been established so far.
I've actually done that a lot but in this case the weight and size of the chuck would have made it hard to do. The threads on the spindle were in rough shape and I wanted to be able to feel the resistance of the fit.
Those self ejecting drawbars are good. You did a nice job building it.
I made one for my mill but unlike your spline, mine did not have a thread at the top. I had to tap an internal thread in my spline and make up a bolt that screws into the spline, and has a hole in the middle for the drawbar. It was getting a bit tight on room, but it does work well like your one.
That's a good method! Thanks for sharing.
Pretty cool little project!
I think Well Index had a great idea.
I hung a small 3\8 butterfly air gun on a retractable real above my milling machine and that's made my life so much better . Hit it with the air gun to tighten it up and hit it to loosen it and the collect falls out in my hand. Love it.
Thats a good idea. I had a friend that did the same
Hi Mark, that's a sweet and simple set-up. Looking good.
Thanks Ray, I agree. it works great!
Awesome machine work!
Thanks!
Good job. I always wondered why that was threaded up there. You're digging way deeper than I ever have. I like it!
Yeah I like it too. The #9 collets were hard to get out and this makes it easy.
Man, that rattling gear would drive me nuts ! Lol, you probably don’t even hear it anymore. 🤷♂️ maybe the camera makes it sound worse than it actually is. But Joe Pie did a video about threading from the head stock out to the tailstock by flipping the tool upside down and running it backwards. it seemed a bit barbaric but out of curiosity I tried it. Haven’t threaded up to a blind or hard stop since. It just works so well. Anywho. This old video is a good one. 👍🏻
Gears on the lathe? Yeah, i agree, the camera does make them worse but I sill do not like the noise. As for threading in reverse, it is absolutely a great way to do it. however, if you have a screw on chuck it's not a great idea.
Great innovative use of the Vice grips, really enjoy your videos and channel cheers
Thanks Mick
Wow, that's a brilliant design. I like it a lot too. Saves shocking the spindle. I also like your spinning wrench as well. A future project. Thanks. Tony
Thank Tony
@@WinkysWorkshop Love that design. Cheers Winky.
@@eyuptony Me too
very interesting design , I enjoyed the build ! 👍👍
Thanks you!
Well done, looks like you are getting the hang of the tig welding.👍👍👍👍
For the most part TIG is easy but thick steel is very forgiving. Thanks
Ingenious solution to the infamous “damn, the wrench slipped off again”.
True... I also like the fact that a hammer is not needed.
What a slick setup that is! Thanks for sharing Wink
Cheers
Totally agree. Well index did well... ha
@@WinkysWorkshop Odd that no one has copied that design
@@rickpalechuk4411 Agree.... maybe a patent
Very well done
Thanks Larry
Nice work!
Thanks
nice, well done, can't believe you got away with taking that out of the chuck 👍👍
Yeah... several times! I've done it before but I usually had a better way of indexing to the chuck.
I'm always impressed by your content that's different than the general repeated "beating of the horse" by most home machinist channels.
So now you have a better mill then the RF30 type. You know that professional machinist still call these bridgeport type mills, heavy duty drill presses. But I don't know how I could get a 10 ton machine into my shop, let alone down my gravel driveway where the fork lift would sink to it's axles. And I know how to ease up on the depth of cuts. I have learned that side milling sometimes requires coolant. But I hate the mess.
Should be interesting to see your future content with this mill. I don't know if Vevor has a Kurt quality knockoff vise for you to review.
Ha... a drill press. I'm going to call mine a mill. The RF 30 lacked precision and the round column was a joke but it was a fairly solid drill press. I'm happy I got this new mill but the RF30 served me very well. I bought a vise supplied by HHIP. Oddly, it sold for just over $300 on the HHIP site (and several others) but HHIP was selling it for $142 via amazon. I wanted to get something good... the Chinese vise on my RF30 was not very good. With that being said... it looks the same as what Vevor sells... so who know if i actually got something better. It seems to be a good one. The only down side is that its what they call a CNC vise. It has to coolant gutter around the vise. I may try flood coolant anyway. HHS end mills cut better than the carbide but coolant is a must. I was surprised about the HHS. I had a new carbide 1/2 end mill and was making hold downs for the new vice. I broke the end mill and swapped it for a 3/4" HHS. It cut like butter compared to the carbide. I guess the HHS was a lot sharper.
outstanding. great work. i wound up putting a power drawbar on my grizzly GO755 mill.
Power would be nice, Thanks.
Nice job as always 👍.
Thanks
Yeah… glad you said it, phalange/washer under the nut to make it nice and easy. Oh you’re solution is super nice!
Thanks you sir
winky, for internal threads for a blind hole I always like to cut threads coming away from the chuck as it is easy to find the bottom of the hole using a dial indicator or hard stop and there is no chance of a bad ending. I think I would also have made a plug with male threads so that you didn't have to take the piece out to test fit. In any case, as usual, a successful end to the job.
Thanks! The plug is not a bad idea but I'd have to make a nut to test the plug... long process. The best way would have been to pull the quill on the mill. Threading in reverse is not really a good option with a screw on chuck.
@@WinkysWorkshop yes sorry mine has 3 cam lock studs that means it can't back itself off. The side jobs needing to be done first to make the main job more efficient are what makes my grey matter come alive but being retired time is one of the few things I have in sufficient quantity. Keep up the good work.
Buy yourself some thread wires and learn how to measure the thread with them. That way you can measure the spindle and make a plug to match exactly.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop I have some. The end result is about the same. I'm not sure which is faster but I've had at least one failure in the past using wires and making a plug. 3/4"-20 is kind of an odd size. I thought about using wires to measure the mill but the threads were kind of messed up. The vise grips were a bit crude but index work in the chuck work perfectly well. Locking collars and scribe mark is a better method than vise grips. I didn't have the right collar.
@@WinkysWorkshop, You could have made a new collar for your collection, Lol, it’s almost unending the amount of side jobs a primary job can create. I’ve watched a fairly new machinist CZcamsr that numbers the side jobs (and shows them), he highlights them and I think they probably have more footage than the original project does. Depending on the number of side jobs his project has, it’s like getting four or five short videos for the price of one. Your videos are similar because you show us your side adventures, like your spanner wrench at the end, you just don’t number and make a big deal out of them.
I was thinking about welding something on a boxend wrench so it would stay on the nut of the drawbar, you outdid yourself with the speed wrench that you made, nice job, thanks for sharing.
I like it!
Haha... thanks
Very Good !!
Thanks, it's a cool concept, better that a hammer.
I have a glass scale fitted on the Z axis of my mill. Have broken it more than once hammering a No. 3 Morse taper loose. Guess what my next project is.
Removing the spline and threading it will be the hardest part.
Nice design!! My Model 645 has that same odd threaded top of the spline. And I've used a brass chunk to break the R8 loose. That flywheel driver is just what's needed to speed up collet changes. I'll have to modify your design some, but great solution to making a self-ejecting drawbar.
Thanks. Maybe use a 1/2" drive socket so it will fit the motor tension adjustment.
@@WinkysWorkshop The 645 has a lever over center cam type mechanism for the belt speed change. They clearly did evolve the design over time.
I like it!!!
Roger that! Ha, Thanks
Mark, This was a very interesting video, my Rexto Horizontal needs a "real drawbar" such as yours. It is presently out fit with a 1/2" threaded rod, looks like your idea will work with a couple of changes as there is no threaded top piece as of yet. Good stuff, TY
Good luck threading the top of the spline. But yeah, its a good design.
Very good
Thanks
Good plan!
Thanks, it works very well.
Bravo.....
Thanks
Cool stuff! Les in UK
Thanks Les
good work. My old bridgeport C-head has a simmilar kind of sleeve that the drawbar rides in. I had to make that sleeve without ever seeing what the original thing looked like. I Now that I see your mill I wonder if my mill head had or can have a self- ejecting drawbar deal too .
It would be worth looking into I think.
Exelent!!
Thanks, I like the way this works also.
Neat!
Thanks
I have a trava dial mounted on my south bend 13.This is were them come in nice.Mine is the silver bullet.Worth every dime.Pick one up if you can....
I do have one with limited travel and that would have worked well.
my drawbar ends flush with the top of the quill shaft extension, like a flanges bolt. remember some tapers are longer then others so you may need a spacer, because it can be too short!! My quill shaft goes below that top surface!! This would not work on mine a tall
No problem, I made the bar for the B&S #9 taper that is in my mill.
Nice, I wonder if I can do something similar on my mill
threading the splined shaft might be a task but if I was going to make the effort I'd consider internal threads.
What GTN-2 parting tool is that? I'd like to get one for my lathe.
GTN2 is the insert. The 2 is the width (2mm). Run a search on ebay and you'll find the tool. It's very handy although it cuts a little rough.
Ha, I have to make a draw bar for my Gorton. Design has now changed, I hate smacking precision tool bits.
John 🇨🇦
I agree... this is a good design
Ha, nothing is ever simple. My mill has a MT4 taper which uses a 5/8-11 thread for the draw bar. The through hole is 9/16, go figure. Oh well, I get to make two adapter fittings first, one for the collet chuck and one for the boring head. Good thing we enjoy making stuff.
John 🇨🇦
@@joerogi8401 I was able to find a taper with a 7/8" thread on the end for a boring head. I also found a B&S #9 to a #2 MT for my drill chuck.
Well weeks later and I have finished the self ejecting draw bar. The collet holder and the boring bar are threaded 5/8-11 but I can only fit a 9/16 draw bar in the mill. So I made 2 5/8-11 to 1/2-13 adapters and threaded both ends of a 9/16 rod 1/2-13. The top mounting piece threads onto the spindle with a 1-14 left hand thread. They're actually super easy as you're threading out of the part.
So thanks for the idea and motivation.
John 🇨🇦
@@joerogi8401 that's great 👍
Where were you able to get plans for the drawbar tool? Great job!
Well there was a threaded area in the top of the splined shaft and I suspected it was something like what I made. I contacted wells index and they sent me a couple pictures so I deigned a slightly different version... possibly a little better I think.
@@WinkysWorkshop Well, mine does not have a threaded part. It has a smooth top above the spline. The draw bar that came with mine has a shoulder and a square drive on the end, for 9/16 wrench.
@@kenny5174 Mine is a Well Index model 40. (1955 I think). other models may not have the same and for sure brand type mills will not.
Boring in blind holes, you can angle the tool post slightly so you cut on the way out so you can use power feed.
True. Even without changing the angle is works fairly well.
@WinkysWorkshop on some bars you need to. Some bars you can't back out regardless without trashing them, unfortunately. But it's actually not hard to make insert tooling, ao it's a good excuse to diy something.
@@moosesmachinery I do it often... what can I say, I'm a rule breaker. It simply deflects the bar and you have to take more passes.
How did you ever get along for so long without a TIG welder? Seems like you are using it all the time now!
No kidding! TIG is amazing. I think the biggest negative is heat. Thing get hot fast. Hotter than mig for sure.
Is there possibility to get the measurements? I have an Index mill with the same draw bar. Thanks!
Here's a drawing without dimensions and photo of the original bar from Wells Index. If you'd rather buy a draw bar Wells Index still sells them but they are high priced. I never took measurement when I made it, I just made it to fit. Obviously the draw bar is 1/2" and the cylinder need to fit in the pulley spline so it does not limit travel of the quill. Note: the coper colored item in the drawing is a brass washer. drive.google.com/file/d/1-cYDBZoxwBG4LTzRB2g0kqx80gr1wfiN/view?usp=drive_link
In my M head Bridgeport the threads are left handed. Do you find that the drawbar unscrews itself?
Never. I've never seen a collet with LH threads. What kind of collet are you using?
@@WinkysWorkshop sorry, I meant the threads at the top of the quill, where you have right-hand threads.
@@ChimeraActual Ahhh. got it. They are standard RH
Next thing will be a power drawbar.
Nah... not going into production mode. This is for fun.
Leave your wrench on the draw bar. What could possibly go wrong? lol
No kidding! Ha
It's symmetrical. It MIGHT stay on.
@@4X6GP I never considered it flying off. My concern was what happens when a person leans into it when the mill is running 1000 RPM.
@@4X6GP Haha.... Might!
Those brass balls would put knots on your head😂