Why are these 32 symbols found in caves all over Europe | Genevieve von Petzinger | TED
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2015
- Written language, the hallmark of human civilization, didn't just suddenly appear one day. Thousands of years before the first fully developed writing systems, our ancestors scrawled geometric signs across the walls of the caves they sheltered in. Paleoanthropologist and rock art researcher Genevieve von Petzinger has studied and codified these ancient markings in caves across Europe. The uniformity of her findings suggest that graphic communication, and the ability to preserve and transmit messages beyond a single moment in time, may be much older than we think.
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What if they were just the first tripadvisor reviews? “Great cave - bad wifi - good ventilation - stayed for 3 nights - i’ll rate it 5 fingers”
Actually there’s a modern homeless glyph graffiti system that serves a similar purpose to what you’re thinking of... and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an ancient concept, there’s some sort of memorialization going on
I believe they are equivalent to Emojis, Girls now can talk for hours just by using Emojis.
Hysterical
😂😂😂😂
"Bed was mushy, however, would spelunk here again."
One major problem with our interpretation of this cave art is the way that we are lighting them when we take pictures or other recordings of them. Ancient hominins from the period would have had some kind of open flame lantern. It has been demonstrated by other scholars that the combination of an open flame light source, the art, and the contours of the rock on which they are written produced a kind of rudimentary animation, or 3D storyboard. To fully understand the purpose of ancient cave markings requires more culturally and materially relativistic investigation.
to fully understand what u saying watch the movies Ice Age..! yep
Pardon me, but do you have any reference source regarding any scholars' interpretations of light source/3D movement? Ive just begun researching primitive cave art. I have ordered the book World Rock Art. I ran across this video and find what some scholars' believe in the lighting.....it makes perfect sense! Their only perspective in dark caves was from flame. Thank you in advance 🌹
maybe they had multiple people in there holding torches to illuminate it all
add to that shrooms or other things they also consumed and the whole thing becomes its own movie
How cool! Man humans are awesome
I read her book, First Signs. It's really fascinating and worth looking at. Her idea to catalog abstract markings in ancient inscriptions across Europe to try to assign meaning is unique and gives evidence of very extensive social organization among people in the remote past.
I'm imagining that these symbols were written all over the place but they only survived in caves.
exactly. It's easy to imagine animal skins marked with symbols outside of dwellings, wooden posts and so on. All lost to time, but the people 30k years ago, were essentially as smart and capable as we are now.
@@matthewbooth9265 not really, just knew how to survive in their time
@@KennyCollins1962 The size of the human brain hasn't really changed in as long as 300000 years. If would definately imply that they were as smart as we are now.
We underestimate the technological advancements the very first civilizations had, whose reminisces have indeed been lost to time. They may have been MORE advanced than us.
@Alan Oranday Definitely not more advanced. If they'd used plastics and even been making lead...there would be clear chemical records of it to be found in the ice cores from that period. Yes we have ice cores going back hundreds of thousands of years. Modern human activity is leaving a huge mess behind it. Anything similar in the past would have done the same.
The caves were the closest things that early man had to a refrigerator. The kids drawings always end up in the refrigerator.
yes and maybe they used to store meat far back in caves
Ha ha.kids drawings on fridges.so the kids drew them
Did they get a spanking when they drew on the walls?
@@draggin-up9911 "an ifiot?" lol Are you "stupif" or something? 🤷🏻♂️
Lots of the cave Art is phony. The Symbols are real
www.stolenhistory.org/threads/prehistoric-cave-art-appears-to-be-fake-all-of-it.198/
That green door the cavemen installed was functional, yet festive.
Just made me lose The Game. Thanks.
Could be one of those doors Early Grace talked about in the movie Kalifornia.
I've seen the movie beyond the green door. Not that good. Boring
I don't know what they're doing, but they laugh a lot behind the green door.
Imagine thousands of years into the future. An alien archaeologist (or perhaps a creature evolved from meerkats) is trying to work out what "keep left", "hard hat mandatory" and "no tumble dry" symbols mean.
The word "ritual" will no doubt occur.
by then they will have rusted away .Modern man leaves wall art or graffiti so usually a rather angry seen or spraying like dog pee .Wouldn't say much about us ..
I live now and those fabric tags that only have symbols for care blow my mind...can you imagine them finding 10123 irons...and yet there probably a zillion irons in weird places...because we use them so little...they are up away almost looking more decorative than functional. Id cannot underground small space ...thats what scares me to death
@@kathleenjones5835 what?
And all the superdomes will be called Temples.
And Imagine their thoughts on TrainCar Graffiti !🤔
I would like to pose the possibility that they were the map of the cave system. Cave systems can be very confusing but a mark that says that way to the opening would be essential.
Good observation.
Subway code
As i read your comment, i immediately thought of tramp signs, the 'code of the road '.
Thank you 🙏🏿
How about the hunting scenes and animal pictures?
🙄
When I'm in a cave I often find myself wondering wtf am I doing in a cave?
Said Batman after another concussion....
Sure cave boy sure
I know, right?
Same here.
I'd be afraid a spider was gunna drop into my hair ...
Geez people, often the presenters here aren't professional speakers, they're specialists in their respective fields. Cut them some slack, they're brave for speaking in front of a room full of people, not as easy as it looks.
Agreed. I notice that people who cannot address the topic just attack the person.
Maybe cause she doesnt adress the topic either. Shes just stating theres signs repeating themselfs, which is a given to anyone ever having looked at cave paitings. The knowledge gain here is less than zero.
But.... if you decide to go on TED to talk, shouldn’t you be able to relay the information? Although the topic of her talk is interesting, her delivery is completely lacking.
Totally agree. "Yerp" instead of 'Europe', "cleff" when she means 'cliff', "urdasts" instead of 'artists', "riding" when she's trying to say 'writing' . . . (I could go on!) There's no point being a specialist in communication if you can't even speak the language you're trying to communicate in. The content is interesting but we're borderline needing sub-titles for English speakers!
R Down nonsense. It is simple to understand her accent. Clearly you are just a clown.
The caves in SW France were like condominiums. Warm secure with high ceilings and walls to paint on the way we hang pictures. I visited Peche-Merle and was amazed by the beautiful paintings of fish horses ‘bison’ and hand prints like signatures and a river running through. A true underworld and the origin of later Styx and Homeric underworld of Classical mythology.
Embellishing!!!
Turns out we were selling them very short here about them just being pieces of art for them to get hammered and stare at. We have cracked the code of at least some of the symbols. They were used to predict the time of year animals were breeding and giving birth and then they could catch them in large herds for hunting. This makes them a form of Proto-Writing, predating other forms by a whopping 10,000 yrs or more. The Magdalenian people became a crucial culture of later Europeans to come.
Perhaps they were able to do this because those that came before them had domesticated dogs some 18,000 yrs earlier and would have learned their breeding habits and times they gave offspring.
I don't think they had to pay rent though
and proven as absokute fakes lol
Just occurred to me while watching (for the second time, as I saw it few years back already): first, as little as I know, if people were equipped with only the torch (with some pitch), there would be lot of soot on the roof of the ceiling. I believe this wasn't always the case, so I'm rather thinking they used to bring the material for making the fire and lit a fire that lasted several hours. A follow-up thought is, what in the world these people do in such remote parts of caves for so long? My memory suggested a solution: for example, the Native Americans had an initiation ritual where young men on the brink of adulthood went to a remote place to keep vigil and dream and follow their dreams. When they kept vigil for several days and nights (plus ate who knows what mushrooms or herbs which could have brought the visions even more reliably and sooner), they got dreams/visions and they remembered them. Then they went back to their tribe and let their shaman know and he would help them interpret the dreams. On the basis of this, they got their warrior name, and searched for some essence of that dream and when found, prepared it and made their own "medicine" that they wore in a pouch hanging around their neck.
So, what if these places were likewise the places of their young men's vigil or initiation rites? What if the pictures on the wall were the expression of their dreams and visions?
Yes, and some of the rock art takes advantage of bumps and variations in the rock's surface to give it depth - I knew someone who had seen some cave paintings by candlelight, and he said the 3D animals seemed to move in the shifting light. And they were all running toward the mouth of the cave, as if all being born, along with the vision quester emerging.
Puh-leez
@@DavidHeizer it's not art
Burning animal marrow does not create soot. Altamira-watch this movie.
I wish I remembered my visions when I take mushrooms and the like. Its like I unlock the mysteries of the universe while on mushrooms, but then forget it all when I goto sleep.
The emotion she is going through the talk shows how passionate she is about her work!
Love and respect. ❤
Agreed!
Seems feigned!
Um..... Smash!
No doubt
Don't have feelings, have thoughts. Feelings know nothing use them for expression, thought knows everything that can be known, use it for everything else.
"Why always in cave?"
Simple answer: The others outside where washed away by rain!
Seems pretty obvious, that a cave is a much more controlled ecosystem.
@@Mitzoplick And gave them shelter from wheater and wild animals who are hunting in the night.
THANK YOU!
these people were not stupid they knew that marking in caves not exposed to any sort of weather would always be there they were just like us. Who in this world like to do the same task over and over again these people were practical people just like we are today no less no more
Makes total sense, thanks. Never thought of that.
Fascinating. Great to hear someone speak so knowledgeably and with such enthusiasm. Great talk. Thank you.
Even during the opening few lines, I cannot but smile at the TED-like manner of presenting an interesting topic. TED Talks may have fed our hunger for exploring and for learning. The cost for this was the TED-ification of its speakers.
It is very different from everything i have heard of so far.
Why did this ted talk seem like the entire thing was an introduction then, when you think she is going to start talking about it in detail, the talk ends....
Thanks! That talk is so strange. Here are the symbol i worked on all this years. *5 seconds* Okay next picture. What is the whole point of this talk?
Right some could be pictures from an 8 year old child and we wouldnt be any wiser
@@MegaBorusse1900 that's what I was wondering i guess i gained some new information. But i figured she'd be raising big questions about the missing links in our evolution. That's what I was hoping for.
It seems she's telling us something wholly new. The cave paintings don't just depict animals but also feature regularly occurring symbols, suggesting a form of written communication that predates every other alphabet. That's an awesome point. She showed plenty of images for 5 seconds to get her point across, of course she still doesn't understand the alphabet enough to explain it more.
Its so annoying when that happens
Man that hand print shown near the start of the video really got to me for some reason. It’s like our ancestors telling the harsh world, “We are here, and we’re here to stay.”
CommittingSloth aye, that’s what hit me too, as if they wanted to tell the futurekind that “I was here, it’s all I have to say”
...for a while."
Note- 5 fingers, there were giants with 6 fingers, maneaters. See in the days of Noah by Billy crone
How do we not know it wasn't from a teenager using a can of spray paint just a few years ago? Lol
@@Jrome3 yup mot of it is probably fake af
Prehistoric cave art is awesome...I’m gonna paint the basement.
Pictures, please!
agreed !! :D
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa notes from the man cave,....................no Bud Lite allowed.............haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I am still waiting for the next episode of this talk !
When I'm in a cave, I often find myself wondering: "Why am I in a cave? This is 2015"
lol
+miklas1911 just to make it clear, We all live in caves now. Hand built caves.
+writerconsidered
You make it sound so fancy. ..
+writerconsidered That's some deep stuff. Makes you wonder. I often wonder: "Why am I in a hand-built cave?"
+ThatOneJay123 Well it is an upgrade from cave 1.0 to like cave 12.0
I'm almost certain that one of those signs meant "Woah let's remember the time when we totally almost died fighting that mammoth."
Fer sure man. Getting trampled by a pissed off mammoth would be a drag...
Or perhaps a sympathetic magic ritual done before hunting. Where some peoples believed that drawing the scene as successful before it happened would make the hunt successful.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 That's a good idea, fits in with the power of visualization that we have.
@@fobbitoperator3620 You would be a pancake.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 That's very possible. I'm sure they used to do that believing it would give them good luck. What if they went and there WERE no mammoths because the herd had moved on?
THANK YOU for rigorously documenting these geometric shapes. What an oversight that it has not been done. Great job.
Very interesting video. The origins of art and the written word. Enjoyed this very much.Thank you TED and Genevieve von Petzinger.
All I could think about when I watched this video was "hobo" signs. Perhaps signs telling others of what benefits or dangers lurked in the surroundings, like a treasure map for a transient population. It certainly points to a certain level of awareness that separate "others" might benefit from this knowledge. I am a not at all familiar with this area of study though, so I could just be restating the obvious.
Or the Underground railroad.
I thought this too.
Exactly, or maybe an early form of documentation.
i really hoped we would see the 32 symbols more than just a peek.
Ronald Best i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/b8/ee/6cb8eec1ef9e9338672a6a16aae39484.png
the first written language happened 2.856 million years ago this planet has been cleaned 53 times that we know of that is really all you need to know to get there
google scholar has a free copy of her PhD paper
@@stevedussault2530 link?
Pause?
I have seen petroglyphs from the Arizona and New Mexico deserts that is incredibly similar. Tick marks, deer and bison, spirals, rectangles. No cave involved and carved not painted but the symbols are the same.
Not only are the 32 symbols barely discussed, but the question about why they are so widespread is only addressed as “that is a story for another lecture”. C-
Super fascinating! I often wonder about the histories that occurred long before we were able to share them with future generations. Your work is so important. Thank you for sharing this!
maybe the cave floors weren't so high 40k years ago. lotsa water could have flowed through since then and added dirt to the cave....
Usually the opposite happens when water gets in caves, seismic shift could have happened.
Maybe they were extremely small people.
@@shaquilleoatmeal5975 or maybe you just have one of the best names on youtube
Brandelgast Fergandilly I mean ... your name isn't too shabby at all either ;)
ChunkeyMonkey xd ikr? That's coming from a guy named Brandelgast Fergandilly
It is possible that this is something like convergence. The symbols are often quite basic . . . triangles, circles, zigzag. These can represent mountains, the sun or moon, and lightning. These could have arisen in isolated, groups that did not contact each other. Given the limited media available, there may well be an element of inherent symbology in us . . . particularly drawing from the natural world.
It could. But it could be aliens.
@@himoffthequakeroatbox4320 You could make a fortune working for Discovery.
Not just aliens, but ancient aliens that visited in the past. That would make it more Discovery worthy.
Antifa did it
" there may well be an element of inherent symbology in us" It would be fascinating to look at what children draw in primitive tribes where they are not exposed to 2D art, if any such places exist.
Decades Ago I visited caves All over the world. I am not trained in this field ( but I knew then it was Very Very important to Document all of the signs symbols from everyone in the whole world and put the pictures in a study guide. Aka Book for future reference and study something draws me to believe we will someday figure all of it out and we need to know Why as A Human we are Naturally curious. I know I got a double dose of curiosity. Anyway our very existence may depend on finding out what our Ancestors were trying to tell us
You are right when you say that we need to find out more about our ancestors, but what we also need to do is questioning what is being put in front of us. Asking who found this? How was it done? When was it done? And mostly: REALLY? Not all that we can see is real and not all reality is visible. I like to think that many things we see have a different function; ie distract, divert, deceive and covering up the real meaning behind it. There are things that are shown via touristic leaders and when you stray from their path, you find the machinations that made this a new industry to draw people in for monetary purposes for instance. Just look deeper into the pyramids... or other topics.
Why all the dislikes???... what people were expecting?... I don't care about others but I find this fascinating. Thanks for the great work!
Because it's titled: "Why are these 32 symbols found in caves all over Europe?" - and over 12 minutes of video later, there is zero answer as to "why" ...only that there are 32 symbols found in caves all over Europe. The video doesn't even begin to answer the question it asks, so it's a misleading waste of time. When you're a researcher, it's your JOB to answer the questions you ask. Scientists don't publish papers or give lectures when all they have are questions. That's less than even the *first* step of forming a hypothesis...That makes this TED talk all fluff with no substance whatsoever.
+Zashorigin Because this is just speculation. There isn't enough information in the archaeological record to make sense of these "32 symbols". They span thousands of years and thousands of miles and there's a very good possibility that any similarities are coincidental. Of course we'll probably never know.
Cabbage Head
Neveetheless, any discovery takes time and because they don´t know everything, like nobody knows everything from those times and there´s always speculation, future generations might be able to know and even if they don´t know much more, it´s still fascinating.
+Zashorigin they are mras that downvote any video with a woman in it or in the titile.
+Zashorigin It is fascinating---for one thing, we got to see more of the actual art, and for another, we found out "the state of the art"---that no one had even catalogued the geometrical signs until now.
I find it funny that these brilliant scientists always forget to ask the most basic questions. If you're 250m under the ground without any of the technologies we have access to today, I'm sure a large portion of the symbols goes towards knowing your position and finding your way back to the surface. I once went deep into the ground with two friends in Mexico. We had a Mexican boy as our guide who was about 14 years old. He had around 10 lamps in his bag and pointed out that if we ran out of light there we were all going to die for sure. It might seem logical when you're reading this but it becomes far more significant when you're deep down in that cave. I simply can't imagine how these people got that deep without any battery powered lamps, but I can imagine how much effort they put into getting back out. So why wasn't this brought up in this video as an explanation of the purpose of some of these symbols?
Underrated comment
Torches (fire)
I think the important thing being the idea their was some coordinated effort between cultures to make universal signs for whatever, I don't disagree. It's just worth noting they were well enough organized and cooperative enough to do something we still struggle with today (think recycling symbols, shorthand, or safety hazard signs).
Well obviously these early humans must have been scotopic.
Rush lights
It's basically a simple candle made from a plant stem and animal fat.
Just Google it.
Lighting wouldn't have been a big problem for them.
As an artist, amateur historian and very amateur archeologist, I so envy those who have this privilege of studying this puzzle!
How about bypassing your envy and contact some of those people such as this friendly-looking lady and see if you can be included somehow, as you share her passion and interest.. dream big and go for it!
u sir are a buffoon
@@manyBlessings2all Or just go and do what she did - see the caves and stuff for yourself.
The records were thread bare before she thoroughly recorded the known sites.
@@mnomadvfx ah yes, let me just use all this money I don't have and start galivanting around the world.
It should be that easy but it's not, it's not impossible either tho but you really have to be in the right place at the right time with the right degree for a lot of this
"Privilege"????? It has nothing to do with this over used word. She and her husband (obviously) work very hard to do what they do. Hard work ain't no "privilege."---from a fellow artist, amateur historian :)
Excellent research and video! It's nice to have on-going efforts of this type.
The 32 symbols were standard on early keyboards.
Really?
hahaha
@@theyoungsomali Totally agree !!
Maybe it is some kind of human mind communications ... something like Kozyriew mirrors
point/link me to the evidence to back up what you said please and thx.
Thank you for taking the time to explore and document these early artworks. I'd also like to thank you for doing the presentation. Great information and very interesting...
I really liked this. The instructor/researcher made points that were very insightful: the total collective characteristics and the small numbers of region-born symbols. I really liked the conclusion whereby Dr. Boyajian said this shows the advent of formal languages and a part of this evolution of communication, most likely, was. Too, she hints that the symbols thro out Europe were based on another step from whence the cave symbols came from. I guess most of the population at that time, lived in caves and they talked and depicted their life's experiences, cooked and ate in the cave homes. I wonder if we will ever get to the point of correctly knowing what each symbol really represented and how they early thought, considering, I guess, early drives we still have to hunt, to communicate, to love (?) or care, to have recognition, to be understood and remembered, to make a mark of our existence. etc. I really feel convinced that advanced civilizations have lived on earth for millions of years and were probably extinguished. The population of the caves had somehow begun to scratch a new civilization without formalized intelligence, infrastructure, books, or machines, but the primitive grit of going on and doing a community from herds of others, perhaps, and from nature only. Amazing! Thanks for your study!
Fascinating
Don't be silly. There are no people living around "that time". Art was produced throughout glacials and interglacial periods in open air sites, caves, mobiliary, ornaments etcetra for 40 thousand years. These people were frkking busy just surviving and ocasionally had some time and energy to decorate. Just like you would when you have some spare time.
Very interesting talk. Can't wait to hear more from you as you decifer more. Thank You, from Texas!
So humans were originally limited to 32 emojis?
+tsbrownie ahahaha XD
+tsbrownie They had to wait 25,000 years for the next iPhone, so they were stuck with them, unfortunately.
That's funny but you're correct. Everything cycles!!!! Please God don't let flares/bell-bottoms return.
Lol
+tsbrownie Or in other words, we're basically becoming cavemen again with emojis.lol
This is a great talk. I love to hear what drives people to discover new things. I think it must be incredible to spend time inside these places.
great speech, theme is very interesting and with superb orator, one small detail, somebody should provide a glass of water for the speakers
I think it is important to back away from the idea that these people were a little dimmer than we are. I think it is important, also, to use common sense. The vertical lines engraved in the wall looked to me like somebody started sharpening needles or something similar, and others used the striations down over the years, deepening the grooves. Sometimes I think that academics get caught up in how grand their theories are and how important they are and forget that folks were just living their lives. You can't go very deep analyzing tagging on box-cars. Sometimes it's good art, and sometimes it's a person clearing out their spray-can nozzle.
Caveman graffiti 😎👍
The simple truth is...we think we are far smarter (and "better") than we really are. This has the potential to be disastrous.
Interesting comment. I doubt if we'll ever really know the exact meanings behind these images and so everything's up for interpretation. Academic speculation is always interesting as long as it's recognised that it is just that - speculation. This was a fascinating lecture though.
@@Brian-pz3wh how right you are.Arrogance is the word .
@@f4fake Sounds like you have a serious inferiority complex. My experience has always been that you know yourself best and if you think you are a pos so be it.
The comment section - while funny to read- is telling us: we’re not that far away from the cavemen...
Modern day human couldn't survive in a cave now we are weak
Or cavemen weren’t that far away from us... 🤯
They were way ahead of us.
I look like a caveman, but wouldn't last 5 mins in their world, I'm even scared Of The dark
I was thinking just that very thing.
These people were nomadic wanderers. There are some things all wanderers need to know - where locally to find food, shelter, medicine, women to name a few. Whether it was caves, or at the shores of distant ports, or more modern hobo symbology, cross-language boundaries were broken with symbols that represented the basic needs that could be found/fulfilld in the area.
That's what they used to think. Then why'd they crawl a half kilometer to start a sketch of it? It is way way WAY out of the way. Then why also make the symbols so abstract when you could convey so much more by basic realistic drawings. These days there is the popular idea that the drawing have religious / spiritual meanings.
Caden Rolland Truth: They haven't got a clue! But, they've gotta have "a theory"; one that they can write papers on, teach classes about, apply for grants to go to the sites to study them, etc. Otherwise, they're outta work, outta funds (and might have to get REAL jobs).
I really love your description and really good aptitude for storytelling. You're a wonderful speaker. I'm definitely jealous of your job because that is the best job I could think of at least one of them!
Well all right so I'm just going to say this you know I I did study anthropology undergraduate but that was a lifetime ago. I maintain an interest. You know I'm probably sure that in the framing of what you said about how the climate was in the tundra and the glaciers but you've at least put yourself in the perspective of those early hominids and humans in that environment and realize that often times they used those caves as refuge like we do if there's a blizzard for a hurricane and I'm pretty sure you have an idea that sometimes they use those caves like wolves and dogs and bears use to house their young when they go off to acquire food. So you you mentioned I don't know what would cause someone to get this deep in this low and make this graphic mark on the wall? I don't know I mean I put myself in that situation as you were talking and I thought huh well and that's tight space it was probably a child and could be they were blocked in there for a long time if there was a storm or some kind of thing they were avoiding for a stretch of time kid gets bored picks up a stick and starts making a mark That's I don't know the thought that creeps up into my mind and not very tight space that you were in the only communication that Mark could make with another is someone else who would go in there and if it was a kid or someone else who might be hiding out in that environment you'll probably be a sibling another child I think that the bigger spaces you know maybe the kid is mimicking with the parents are doing on the rest of the wall maybe they're counting days it could be a way to mark how long a blizzard might be for it could just be a mark of boredom but you know when we do doodles there are repetitions I mean I used to be a big doodler and I used to repeat signs a lot but I'm sure there's not only commonality with my work over time but I'm sure some of the things that I have written were so basic that they were repeated by other people and I never communicated with them. Anyway these are the thoughts that came to mind when you were talking. I think that all I'm saying is that work is extremely important but maybe you might be jumping to the wrong conclusions or making it sound more mysterious than it should be. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions I don't know but I mean really all we can do is speculate. I think the first surviving alphabet that affected every other alphabet there's a Phoenicians to see people's probably had something to do with it and you know you know Spain and France and Italy are all along the Mediterranean I don't know you know that could be the antecedent of the sea peoples that's an interesting idea.
Not every riding is inspired a lot of it can be just out of boredom and that significant too this is all significant no matter what the reasoning behind it is. We have to remember we have to remember that when when we talk about human discoveries oftentimes it does involve boredom and accidents. You know a doodle can become a work of art it can start off as just a mark on the wall and then inspiration comes I could have taken thousands of years for that mark to become a work apart but we also can't assume that everybody who picked up a stick or created pain or marked the wall and whatever way they could wasn't adult or doing so with a preconceived notion of communicating or even creating anything that someone else might understand. These markings remind me of markings that you see in like movies about people who are planning to defend themselves or attack somebody in dirt or sand and they're explaining something another group you know a TED Talk from the Stone age 🤩
Okay so I just had this like really funny idea know my name is Deborah and in Hebrew that means honey bee and it made me think when I was thinking about the early humans or hominids congregating in these caves I was thinking of bees and how they will go back to the hive after kind of a truck and then they will go back to the hive in and tell everybody else where they found whatever and then they'll do a dance I'll be dance that gives them the exact location of of a source of pollen. No I mean these markings could be you know some kind of communication that's vital I think would be either vital or bored it's like the only thing that can really come to mind because you know not many people can get into these caves it's not like you have whole communities you probably have families and maybe maybe a couple of generations or aunts & uncles and cousins together but you know we're not talking about even a hundred people congregating these are small groups in these caves. I think language systems only work when you're talking about communities of families who have to defend themselves from other communities of other families I think that's when we get language I think when you get to art for art sake you know that takes quite a bit of imagination and skill and I would say that that would probably have to go inside with the most purposeful task which is to create tools but you have an idea what you want ahead of time see you envision it. I think I do that all the time anybody goes to home Depot with a project in their mind does that I think it's a very human thing to have that kind of concept and see it too fruition or not in my case not. I think doodles can inspire that kind of happening.
I'm so happy that somebody's actually looking at this and studying it and marking it down excuse the pun. This is so truly fascinating work. One thing that can be done to coincide with this work is to watch two and a half to four year olds and how they doodle and Mark and create art for the first time when they start to pick up a pen or pencil or marker or crayon and they start making markings with either paint or tools like markers and pencils. I think it would be interesting to just watch what they do in a sandbox what they do when they get bored. I do think that we are reaching into the deep recesses of human existence and behavior and sometimes it's right in front of us.
Do you have any to say????
She's welcome to it, I'd freak out in a tiny space like that.
Things you write on cave walls are also very easy to quickly sketch in dirt, sand, or snow. Thus, much innovation was likely allowed to develop, and spread far beyond the mouths of the caves where we find them now.
Love how she speaks, she is really clear yet passionate. Amazing so few different signs originally but back then they probably only had a limited vocabulary. Would like to hear if she has looked at the San cave art in Africa which goes back 50,000 years and is also fascinating.
When you're social distanced in an ice age, you doodle.
😷😋😁
I am doing the same thing at this time, doodling.
😄 true!
@Peter Evans When you have the credentials to make a statement like this, cite them, otherwise, remain silent please.
@Peter Evans Cite them.
I love this. The passion and dedication shown to an overlooked area of our early pre-history. It's so fascinating, the symbols so tantalising and enigmatic, yet familiar too. I just wonder what they were carving onto wood at the same time, that has been lost to time. A bit like stonehenge being a representation in stone of a much older and perishable wooden architecture.
Animals are unmistakeable, with so few lines they depict the 'form' in a way that few artists today could achieve. What have we lost?
Actually, if you have studied Art and have learnt about the principles of it, you can reduce anything to a few lines and make the scribble readable to a wider audience. There is such thing as a collective understanding. Often deeply buried, but it is there. What we have lost is the ability to question and to discuss without cancelling; agree to disagree for instance.
Nothing.
I lived in Morocco and I married there. My husband was the only one in the family who spoke English. When he went to the store or went to work all of us communicated and laughed at the same time and knew what the other person meant even though we didn't have a common language. I had learned quite a bit of conversational Arabic a lot of it was Moroccan Arabic known as darija but his family had no even working knowledge of English. We seemed not to need it in the evenings we spent out on the porch under the family olive tree. We entertained each other and we communicated in a way that we all understood I never knew before how many symbols I could make with my hands! :-)
I wish she would have gone in more in depth into the symbols themselves, but still very interesting. Good video!
But when she asked 'why was someone in that low ceiling cave? It got me to thinking:
So here are my theories in no particular order:
1. Defense would be a logical use for caves [One way in/out, defensible while eliminating flank assaults]
2. Protection from the most extreme or hostile elements [Heatwave, tornadoes, etc]
3. Since most caves are a near constant cool temperature depending on proximity to the equator. In most cases it would have been a good place to assist in the preservation of food. [it would spoil more slowly there, removed from the sun, pests, etc]
4. We all strive to have 'a place to call home', so what better choice than one pre-made and [in most cases] impervious to the elements
5. And lets not forget the coolest things about caves.... man! what an echo!
Just the echo effect yeesh what better invention for a child to have the superhero dad teach them how to do in their younger years screw the huge BAT POPULATION HANGING AROUND FLUTTERING WEVE HEARD SO MANY TIME AIM STRAIGHT FOR OUR HAIR IF ITS NOT WASHED CLEAN BY GRANDPARENTS!!!!!! YA SCREW EM LISTEN TO THE OLD MAN HAVE A SECOND VOICE COMING NACK SAYING HELLO TO US THIS IS MUCH COOLER. IM STILL SMIRK8NG THANK UPU SIR ILL LAY DOWN TONIGHT REMEMBERING MAMMOTH CAVE KENKUCKY ANF CAVES IN NORTHERN MINNRSOTA. LATER IN MY TEENS THE BATS GOT THEIR FAIR SHARE AFTER THE FACT SO DID CLAUSTRAPHOBIA IM NO LONGER A CAVE EXPLPLORER. THATS FOR REST OF THE WORLD
They had no internet bruh.
We wouldn’t be the first people to “discover” these examples of cave art. Something inscribed in a cave 10,000 years ago would’ve likely been discovered a few years after it was written down, and then a decade later, and then a thousand years later again, and so on. Perhaps this is how the graphic ‘lingo’ spread across the Eurasian continent.
They were travelling, from what I recall the earliest known skeletal remains in Spain/Portugal are thought to be travellers from northern Europe.
She has a therapeutic voice, I can listen to her podcast every night before going to sleep.
@Lee Smith maybe. Or maybe some of us like good bedtime stories.
I also find her very sexy
@@P3L0745 beautiful in a modest way
She has a beautiful face.
It’s up to Weyland-Yutani to fund an expedition to find out what the engravings mean.
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well! 😉 I thought the whole comment section would be about Prometheus/Alien to be honest!
Very similar to "hobo codes" found on rail cars, telephone poles, peoples front gates, to let other "Bo's" know where to get some handouts, or bad watchdogs, generous housewives, and other stuff.
I think some of it is marking what types of prey and where to find good water and prime hunting around the area of each cave.
I think it would be a good idea if she were to bring an established Hunter to some of these sites. The hunter would know what areas are prime spots for hunting and other spots are prime for "spotting" prey. They probably evolved into more abstract forms when they wanted to keep information from other tribes. Those trees to me look like a way of saying summer and winter. So conclusion to me is time, place, identity of prey.
Ripley agrees!!!
@@GargoylGirl not again!
She and her husband toiled to capture and analyse them. Laudable effort indeed.
They don't do it for free, big grants I guess
You don’t get huge grants for this type of work.
A topic very few people are acquainted with that was well stated. Thank You so much young lady. It is an interesting subject that we know little about.
I had no trouble understanding her, and I thoroughly enjoyed the talk. Very informative.
...sharing is caring.....💕🙏...thanks for putting yourself out there....may you continue to have the energy and freedom to inform, educate and enlighten 🙏✨
Fascinating talk! Archeologist Marija Gimbutas has interesting interpretations of these symbols as well. Her study of Catal Huyek is very intriguing. In Canada, Selwyn Dewdney's study of First Nations rock paintings is also interesting. Does anyone know of a comparison of all the worldwide rock painting symbols?
Great video, interesting topic for sure!!! Great presentation by speaker, thank you so so much, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
What a load of cynical nonsense in these comments. Better shut it down altogether. At least she has made a contribution by doing interesting fieldwork, that's a start, and most of these nitwits with their venomous tongues haven't done anything.
Thanks a lot for this brave comment. The dimwits actually took the stage pouring venom; they have nothing else to contribute to civilization. The world is so full of them and that's why there are crises everywhere...
Well said.
@Charles Engels, Please Sir, may I show you something Special and if you believe me, will you tell at least 1 person for me? I found Hope czcams.com/video/whVnWh4Mco/video.html
The point is... why was she given a TED talk if she had nothing to say?
Because, if you have any knowledge of how scientific progress works, it is always piecemeal and gradually, step by step, and at least she has made a start. I can assure you that you will find no such thing in the existing classic scientific publications on the subject, nothing as comprehensive as this, so this is to be admired and not discarded. Could you do better? There are infinitely more questions than answers in this field. In fact, if you start reading the relevant literature, you will soon realise that, so far, THERE SIMPLY ARE NO DEFINITE ANSWERS YET, so it is really cheap to do away with someone who is brave enough to tackle this field of study. Moreover, aren't all TED talks a bit like this, great expectations but very few things materialise in 5 to 10 minutes...
Deep respect for this woman's work.
Lol, whacko
Lívia Moreira No, seriously, what do you respect about her? Her vacuous nature, the ambivalence she has to her work, her ineptitude when it comes to peer-review?
LOL. jesus
+John Redman go take a weak in nature, or put together a puzzle. You sound very angry about something incredibly ridiculous. All that stress isn't good for you.
Merry Christmas, Hannukah, all of them nice holidays, everyone. Just chill. In a cave, if you will.
LOL
Bye
Spoken language and graphic representation almost certainly develop alongside each other.
"Tree dawn hunt" has a clear meaning and can be represented in three signs. Everything else is embellishment, even in spoken language.
Spoken language’s development can be traced back to the brain growth, as that explosive growth involved language processing centers growth in tandem with cognitive prefrontal cortex growth at a rate faster then the normal evolutionary female reproductive system could keep up, making it too difficult for female to give birth to a self sustaining and mobile child. This development took places thousands of years before any written language came about in a sustained ideographic manner.
Ask the Basque people (in English 😏)
I have lineage in my bloodline from Basque. How would they know about these images being in Northern Spain?
@@bruceanavitate6864the basque region is north Spain, bordering France in the west Pyrenees..you should know this
Much of what we need to know is lost forever. Under water, completely destroyed, hidden on purpose, or lost in translation. I hope we further work on Gobecki Tepe.
At least we know where atlantis is.
Let's create a new world for our children ourselves. Knowing ourselves is the key to find the truth.The way to self-realization was not closed after the Buddha or any other prophet. I wanted to find it and found it within myself and now it is everywhere. Now I just wish to give it back to our world.
I invite you all to come to United Humans Organization- www.unitedhumansorganization.webs.com and change the course of our education system and market oriented economy.
Markets and money were made for humans and not the humans for the markets and money.
Everything we really need to find is within us.It just needs a good dive within.
yeppers. can't wait until we find Edgar Cayce's golden plates, supposedly under the Sphinx but I bet Zahi Hawass (sp?) confiscated 'em. personally...I don't think we is from here originally. how long would it take for one race to become five? (is five, yes?). go look up Earthfiles here, Linda Howe did three segments on Antarctica + black sun. Underground ancient granite self-sustaining structures. WE sure dint build 'em.
Which way is the dumpster... lol
I could listen to her talk for hours. Her voice is so soothing.
If that's not sarcasm I'm confused.
weeral1 why are you confused? She’s a pretty woman w a nice voice
I was thinking the same! She has a really nice voice.
Very clear and articulate.
I'd do her.
I can think of few things more terrifying than being in a narrow cave a quarter of a mile underground. Im grateful there are people willing tk look in these places, but count me out...
Look forward to learning how this information grows. The remarkable part is that these repeated and consistent graphics persist over tens of thousands years from Ice Age to Paleolithic to Neolithic, some in folkloric decorations to the early 19th century. reappearing on stone, ivory, and pottery as well as caves.
You call them cave men, I call them survivors of a cataclysmic event :)
Yup that is about what my math is adding up to as well....
Yes proven cataclysmic event around 10000 years ago by meteor impact or solar flare outburst probably the first one since they recently found the crater of the impact dating 10000 years ago
@@giespouwen8091 where is the crater?
@@forestbertrand thanks for replying dude. Yeah I did some searching and did find that out. Through Graham Hancock. That guy seems to be all over it. 😉
Yeah, there was an ice age. It's not a guarded secret. Where you're being silly is in asserting that there was an advanced society.
What an amazing job she has. Getting to see the first steps of becoming a thinking Human. Thank you so much for you effort, truly amazing and deserving of respect.
Joe C Terence McKenna stoned ape Theory read the book or listen to the audio book and you will see why some of these drawings in the caves got pretty crazy different types of bees and sacred geometry type shapes
These people were already thinking humans. 50, 000 years is not enough for one species to transition into another, these people were the same thing you are. And it's not like we are that special either, Neanderthals were using complex chemical reactions to produce a kind of superglue for their tools 200, 000 years ago. Abstract thought goes waaay back still. So show some respect.
Nothing amazing going on here. You can't have a real discussion about this without mentioning the role extraterrestrials played in our "evolution". The majority of those cave paintings had images of spacemen in suits and various flying craft.
+1
Les Booth, although fascinating, not many experts and academics perscribe to the stoned ape theory. Plus, the idea that ingesting psilocybin in the volumes suggested by Terrence are rather copious. Plus, its just a wild leap of speculation to think our minds grew and developed, due to new senaptic pathways being formed in this manner.
Its cool, but highly unlikely.
This deserves 2 awards
1. Most interesting Ted talk in the last decade.
2. Most Canadian girl in history 👍🏻🇨🇦
The Antonio Banderas film about this topic is very well done, and very moving. Also, One of the Clan Of The Cave Bear books is about these fabulous drawings, and is very insightful. From a woman who was something of a savant about the people who made them.
Earliest human trolling. "Spray paint your butt on Grog's wall."
Archeologist: "These are complex thinkers, evolving highly developed communication skills to stay alive..."
Actually, if we determine that is a butt print--and lots of us see that it could be--that tells us we have continuity of sense of humor about certain subjects.
hehehehehehehehehehe
"The rest of the party often consults Grog for his expertise on shapes and colors." -- Grog Strongjaw, goliath barbarian
Grog also invented a drink called "Grog" 😅
johnsamu "He was a craftsman and always laughed at a good joke." - Grog's Headstone
Tagging goes way back.
wow, this person is really really good at presenting and delivering information. Great video, thank you
Few symbols means some kind of importance
I know that Abraham Maslow (1908 - 1970) only had small cotact with anthropologists.But his "Hierarchy of needs" could be used in this context. Cos what if some of the symbols were used to indicate what status the cave was(owner or free) and the next 2 the first 2 stages(Physiological needs, Safety needs).
Invoking Maslow feels like a stretch. Maybe you can expand on this theory-as of now I'm not agreeing (as if my input holds any weight). and, what is "Cos"?
so these were the first nursing care plans based on Maslow Hierarchy of needs........brainy joke..................... good writing.................. thank you
Brilliant...although a 2015 video, I look forward to see where the presenter's research takes her....
Having seen some of this Europe and many in the southwest the similarities are unmistakable.
The Sterkfontein caves in South Africa is my favorite place to visit. Amazing place.
I’ve seen “Cave of forgotten dreams” by Werner Herzog and it truly changed my perspective on time, art and humanity. Must see!
Theyre hobo signs ("Mean cops in this town") ("Nice Lady lives here") left by hobo sapiens
Laika Pupkino ... hobo sapiens..??
😂😂😂
Great pun!!!
I see you won the internet some 10 months ago. Has the excitement worn off yet?
HUH??? I don't remember posting this.
Sign, sign, everywhere are signs. Blocking out the scenery and blowing my mind.
Do this
Don't do that
Can't you read the sign
Not "blocking out," but telling the past stories of the scenery. Mind blown!
So I got me a pen and a paper, and I made up my own little sign. Thank you Lord for thinking 'bout me. I'm alive and doing fine.
@james kenyon I thought so too. I couldn't resist.
@james kenyon My first name is Steve and all my friends gave me various famous last names throughout the years. Stevie Wonder, Stevie Ray Steve McQueen, etc. Like em all but settled on McQueen.
Today i met this lovely lady at grocery store. She was so humble😍😎
This is a good talk, for about 4 to 5 years I have been illustrating petroglyph symbolism in my artwork. I concentrate mainly on the UK, Wales, Scotland, and Irland also recently some of the signs in this film are visible on Orkney. Not sure where the images from the film at 8-49 minutes in are from, however, these same complex geometrical signs are visible on Orkney. Also, at 10-51 on the film the feather plant or symbol from Spain is a common symbol from Orkney...
I get the feeling from studying and painting these symbols that they are signs from our ancient ancestors trying to reinterpret natural forms or even subconscious shamanic coding. Fanciful thinking I know, however since using these symbols and mixing with archetypes I feel like my consciousness has expanded. I think neolithic people were much like us today, and they were still using these symbols, what if it is the precursor to modern language and the expansion of human consciousness?
I think this is a credible perspective of the evolution of written or even spoken language and conscious creative action in creating the symbols. This is a link to my artwork... peteryankowski.co.uk/
O [] ~ ∆
lol ik you would be also interested in our fungal friends
Some runes look similar to a few if these symbols. They could have meant: River, lake, stream, well, spring, mountain, and animal names.
@@debbiecurtis4021 And the squares can mean houses, settlement sites...
Gorgeous art work!!
What a fascinating job.
A lovely presented speech
There are those divided rectangle signs on rocks here in Arizona. Lots at Grapevine Canyon, in particular. Not in caves, but just on boulders outside.
In The southwest deserts of the USA there are drawings and carvings on rocks made by the first people. Fascinating.
Which "first people"?
While the stories have many stylistic flaws, Jean Auel's "Earth's Children" series interestingly described the culture that Genevieve described from her different viewpoint. If you assume wide-ranging human migration, if the artists migrated, their art could be reproduced at many places and that would account for the scope of her findings.
Love that series....
Clan of the Cave Bear... my fav movie!
I'm currently reading the last book in the series, "The Land of Painted Caves." Considering all the research that goes into writing her books, I wonder if she believes the cave art is an early form of writing.
There has been great evolution in the written language. From 32 symbols written on cave walls in Spain 5000 years ago to the modern era, when man can post stupid comments to videos on CZcams. 5000 years from now, some archeologist will unearth an I phone. But he will not be able to see the stupid comment because the battery will be dead.
lcagee Or they'll see the stupid comment but be unable to translate it and think it has some profound deep meaning like those butt prints on that cave wall
واقعا چرا اینجوری شده چرا چرا چرا؟
Good thing the NSA downloads everything put on the internet ever and stores it on their servers
+Graver: If they ARE butt prints, and they might be, that's certainly relevant to understanding our concept of humor.
Mike Williamson Well if it is, it definitely shows that our humour hasn't changed much, which humour in itself is a complexity to begin with. We might be able to reason that they had around the same mental capacity that we do today, although there's not enough data to obviously conclude that but it's an interesting thought.
Those painting are entries for time graphical memories.
I Thank You! Since people have stopped reading books & worrying about spelling, language has lost some of its meaning but created a new universal kind of system in which everyone can understand each other. Maybe we should learn from past languages & compare them to the languages of today, to find a language we can all understand. This way we can get to know each other better across all cultures & beliefs.
Fascinating subject. Art, history, technology, linguistics, and archeology. All in some cave writings.
It's very obvious that there were fully written languages and mathematics at least 9,000 to 15,000 years ago. We have structures around the world that attest to that. These monuments weren't constructed with only verbal communication
We have libraries and museums, they had caves to preserve their language and knowledge base.
Dale DeLatte very true, and mainstream academia will not recognize this fact simply because those earliest of builders and writers and mathematicians were white.
@@illuminated2438 huh? What are you suggesting? A world wide, ongoing conspiracy where racism of some kind trumps science and truth? And that literally everyone, millions of people, buy into it? That's a special kind of stupid you rarely see these days.
Might not be special... how do you say"get whitey"in cave language... lol
Or something/someone gave them that knowledge/helped....
Super interesting subject! I wonder if we ever will understand the cave drawings
Fascinating and important work!
This is why I am so damn proud to be human. We create things, we have crazy ideas about how things could be and we are capable of learning. Too bad most humans would rather forget and just watch TV when there's so much potential just waiting to be unleashed.
+Vít Savický 'we created all
+nolove4thuglife why do you use all caps so much?
+Vít Savický
Well said! Unfortunately, we've also created social media, where people seem to think anything they don't already know about is worthless and that their uninformed opinion is as significant and valuable as the attempts to understand of someone working full-time in that field. I support your pride, but there's despair as well.
We do not hear each other..social media is a way to say something to somebody...
+nolove4thuglife Hou je mond idioot. Het nadeel van het Internet dat village-idiots nu ook een podium hebben terwijl ze vroeger met pek en de veren het drop werden uitgetrapt.