Best Rep Range & Technique? Ronnie Coleman Had It Right!
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2022
- With Justin Harris and Dani LaMartina here we talked about the best technique for hypertrophy and How Ronnie Coleman had the right idea!
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I've been lifting for a long long time, and this video gave me another way of thinking and provoked a deeper level of questioning. Outstanding, and very refreshing, thanks.
It wasnt just the explosive force... the weight he used, my god. He was superman strong, with explosive force. His form was bad? Try doing full reps when you are as big as him. His ROM was shorter. Guy was one of a kind. Jay, even Dorian had torn arm muscles at some point.
Jay Cutler even said Ronnie used weights Jay couldn’t. Even Cutler admired him
@DimebagVision
Jay is smarter
@@giriprasadkotte9876 which is why he is the richest bodybuilder next to Arnold
The weight he used? It was just … lightweight baby .
True but look at him now? Jay is still training and in good shape. Ronnie is destroyed.
Hey just want to say thanks for putting these vids out there! Much appreciated!
I'm a very inexperienced beginner so in the past I've naively wondered what Ronnie was up to with his form, but it's extremely interesting to hear this analysis. Thank you
One of the best discussions I’ve ever seen on hypertrophy. Wow.
Dave’s the definition of a lifetime teacher this man says things that I’m like “I never thought about that before”.
Great topic, great conversation. New to the channel an I love it.thanks
Really cool interview! I think what Dani said about proprioception and what Justin mentions on good form being whatever gets you to "feel that muscle the most" are the key factors in these giants. They can produce an explosive amount of force with little regard to observed form because they can specifically recruit the target muscle to its fullest while maintaining just enough tone in other muscles to maintain stability. Most of us aren't that gifted and may need to reduce the load and slow down the tempo to maintain that mind-muscle connection while avoiding injury. I'd argue that's why you see the biggest body builders and strong men are immensely strong, explosive, and large.
It really all comes down to omproving yer focusing abilities. Meditation, not watching p..rn and not watching women body parts outside greatl help in that - in improving focusing and concentration. And after improving that skill, we may then consider some amount of explosiveness to finish work outs in shorter times, after also mastering the way of that spesific movement.
Great conversation gang!!! I love these different topics!!!!
I’m not new at this but I’m not seasoned either. I appreciate the information you guys give.
I just started The Vertical Diet so I found this channel through watching Stan Efferding videos.
You gained a new fan and again, thank you for what you do.
So much information i seriously take notes on everything an build my programs lol
Excellent and refreshing convo.
This was a great clip, good content here 🤞🏽
Love the content so im Feeding the algo. I've read elitefts articles since high school. When my wife's an attending elitefts is outfitting our home gym.
What a great conversation, can we get more of this on CZcams instead of talking about gear, supplements, and industry gossip? This was actually helpful and gives you different perspective to think about in your own training.
Sounds like you should subscribe to our channel!
@@eliteftsofficial done, thanks again for the great content.
This is good food. Liked. Subscribed. Notifications on. Appreciate the no frills realness.
Great to see love among the strength sports. 💪
Since everyone is different then key principles on movement patterns and muscle functions needs to be explained.
This was great, thanks guys
Glad you enjoyed it!
What a fantastic discussion
Enjoyed the chat, y'all!
Thanks for posting this.
You bet!
Holy shit, this one was great information. Thank you.
Also don’t mention Dr. Mike, he will show up like Candyman if we say his name too often
Dani and Justin should just do their own show. Best people to listen to.
It doesn’t matter how Ronnie Coleman trained, he’s Ronnie Coleman. He’s an exception to the rules. If the majority of us try and train like Ronnie with shit form we’ll just end up injured and/or have shit results. I’d rather follow reliable scientific training principles and get the most out of my training while keeping it relatively safe. If people want to throw heavy weights around with partial reps and inconsistent form then good luck to them.
Fair enough, you do you, but be careful about how much faith you have in ‘science’ when it comes to training. This isn’t experimental physics, the ‘science’ is basically dissertations for PE teachers. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t be too sure of the idea of what’s scientific and what isn’t. Training is much more about qualitative experiential evidence than limited studies.
I always felt like higher reps for smaller muscles groups works better, like what she was saying about the delts is spot on.
delts are the biggest muscles in the upper body though
@John Carr thats just not true the study on cadavers show delts are biggest followed by chest then lats
@@coachingconfidant2785 all three heads together maybe
@@chgenerationx the heads are all together... they are connected. Otherwise by ur logic the chest would be 3 muscles cuz the chest has 3 heads, same with the lats having 3 regions. The deltoid is the biggest muscle in the upper body. That is every fiber that is over the humeral head. You guys with small delts are probably not training it optimally. You can make your chest and lats bigger than your delts by not hitting your delts properly they are still naturally bigger
High reps works well for legs though.
You need all of them. 3/6/8/10/12/20. In my opinion, it’s about periodization and using all of the rep ranges, at different speeds, periodized, repeatedly and consistently over the long term. And getting the best out of all of them.
Good conversation. I'm working with my 17 year old son right now because he wants to learn to lift weights. I'm 5'8" and he is 6'1" with long slender arms and legs. When I first started working with him I would try and get him to use form like I was using but it was awkward and hard for him especially with squats and curls. I finally decided that trying to make his form look like mine was not productive and changed to making sure he was feeling the tension in the proper muscle groups. He is working with fairly light weight but is improving very well.
Damn dude you’re a good dad.
Alot of form issues can be due to range of motion issues/flexibility issues. If your body/muscles/ligaments/tendons do not have the range of motion/flexibility needed for let's say a good squat form. Then that is what needs to be worked on. Best way to improve that, is stretching, which is not fun to do imo but will help drastically. Other things, foam rolling, body weight exercises, warming up the body. Lifting weights will give you better range of motion eventually if you're using full range of motion, but may take a while and won't get you as much range of motion/flexibility as stretching will.
You failed your son by allowing him to neglect weight training for so long. His self esteem has already formed around a weak physique. To everyone who reads this- don wait, train your kids young and watch them bloom for life.
Time under tension is import but one thing a lot of people don’t think about is total reps in a muscle group, it takes about a thousand repetitions for your muscle to start adding new synapses. So in a 4 week training cycle you should be hitting 1,000 reps for whatever muscle group you are training. When the muscle adds those synapses it creates a more effective and efficient muscle similar to cylinders in an engine a v12 runs smoother than a v4 and a v4 runs smoother than a lawnmower. When you muscle has adapted you build on that foundation like a pyramid which is why you can see bodybuilders working with “poor form” but still growing. The amount of time a rep takes is as important as the amount of time in a set as time passes while you are in a working set your body will utilize different energy options and phases so it’s important to maximize the time given your goals.
@@DMMDwrestler shut up. Your kids will probably live in pens all their life.
This discussion reminds me of the video with J.M. Blakley at which he described his different approach to training for recovery purposes, if I'm correct. It was about feeling and truly activating the muscle by mindfully contracting and moving the muscle through the motion. I believe there is a video where he demonstrated this with a female competitor, training triceps.
Higher reps is definitely better for bodybuilding in more than one way! Too many seem to train low reps... Great vid
Love the info
Great Discussion! I think this is how we should discuss bodybuilding, instead of holding the "science" as the only approach.
You need a wide range of reps but in general 10+ for hypertrophy and 1-5 for strength. Frequency is also important so you have to pay attention to number of sets, whether you go to failure or not and whether that failure is pure muscular failure (eccentric)(should be done very rarely) or just strength failure (concentric)(last set only).
"not because you're meant to workout the muscle with a motion does it mean that you will actually work it"
Such a true statement. From people not using enough glutes in squat and deadlifts, using mostly the front delt on presses, it all adds up to more or less strength and hypertrophy gains.
It's dumb to assume that just because you're going heavy, that you're going to use all the muscles to the max to lift as much and as effectively as possible withing your own objective
its more in the middle though. just because i don't feel my chest (i have a massive issue feeling my chest) doesn't mean its not working or growing
@Richard Horvatich if u're bicep curling with elbows not moving and don't curl too high then its not possible to move the weight without using ur bicep. whether u have a connection with ur bicep or not. same with bench press. if u have a wide enough grip and good enough form/barpath there is no way ur chest isn't doing its job whether u feel it or not. idk about u but my triceps arent moving 130kgs when im doing wide grip regardless of if i feel it or not (which i don't)
Excellent video 👍
Great point on Ronnie
Good discussion.
You guys should link the whole table talk in the description of these short clips
Thanks. Carry on...
Useful info
I think fast twitch and slow twitch plays a role. I’ve noticed that forearms, rear delts, traps, and calves respond well to SLOW reps.
Why is this podcast so fascinating?!
This channel is a Goldmine
Make sure to tell your friends
Big facts right here...
Awesome video
Glad you enjoyed it
I think you should do it all if you want to make progress. I do slow reps, explosive reps, static holds, high reps, low reps, somewhere in the middle reps, supersets, bodyweight exercises, Olympic lifts, etc. There's no magic specific way to work out which will give you "more gains".
Okay - this is a fascinating discussion with lots of information (as always!), but let me add one item that was missed (although Dani came close with anthropometrics) - genetics. Ronnie Coleman is a genetic freak. Anything he does to work will result in unbelievable strength and size. So there is bodybuilding. Let's look at powerlifting and name Ed Coan as the genetic freak. Ed started with some serious back issues as a child and was able to work that into some truly credible feats in powerlifting. I'll go back to listening now :)
another video with JM Blakely had them discount genetics as coaches as you don't want to limit your clients. However, as a practical point of view it is important to realize that some people are just built in a way to allow them to do insane things. No one questions Lebron's genetics for basketball, having the handsize to palm the ball, height, arm length, power to jump really high given his weight. At 5'5, I will never dunk. But I can still try my best to be the best basketball player that I can be.
So to, some people are just built in a way that allows them to put up insane numbers when it comes to lifting weight. But just because person x can bench 400lbs as a teen with minimal training, doesn't mean that you can't push yourself through years of hard work to get to a 225 bench. Push yourself, and you can achieve most realistic goals with the right programing and lifestyle.
Genetics had nothing to do with Ronnie. Ronnie used well over half a million dollars in growth hormone , when somone uses this much gear the whole genetic excuse is out the window . And honestly as much gear as Ronnie was on he really wants that strong
@@heveyweightheveyweight5399 I'm not saying Rodney Coleman was on juice I'm not saying he isn't on juice but genetics do play big part look at him when he was playing football great genetics
@@heveyweightheveyweight5399 many people use as much peds as Ronnie did but don't look anything like him. Not in size, not in strength and not in body fat percentage.
@@heveyweightheveyweight5399 not true. Response to gear is genetic also. Some people look like crap as a natural but hop on and are hyper responders. Likewise, there's also elite naturals who hop on and won't achieve as much as someone with average genetics who's a hyper responder.
I'm going to chime in on the form issue. So people doing, lets say straight bar bicep curl. If you keep your back completely straight your ROM (well my ROM) will lose tension on the bottom of the concentric rep. If you slowly angle your torso to keep the time under tension isolated you will hit that muscle much harder. On the way up, I'm not saying throw up reps with your back, I'm saying slowly re position your torso to accommodate the movement so no tension is lost on that body part. Everybody is different and you need to find the ROM that your particular rep needs to hit that part. You'll find YOUR sweet spot when you don't feel a break in the mind muscle connection on that rep....
Dani comes off as an amazing source of excellent information, even better she communicates extremely well. Great job Dani!
I've always felt an exaggerated slow eccentric to be counter productive. On deadlift variations that's certainly the case.
Exactly, Ronnie doesn’t have any other injuries. Ronnie’s back injury started out during football, this is what I have heard him say. His injury could happen to anyone.
Light weight baby!!!
Renaissance Periodization has a wealth of information with Dr. Mike Israetel and the gang on hypertrophy, strength and endurance. Rep ranges in the literature range between 6-30 with an intensity ranging from 30-85% 1RM
Kai Greene is more like "good form" style training in my opinion. Would like to hear other peoples opinions on his style!
Indeed💯
What do u guys think about Nick Walkers form?
These people are too smart
Big Lenny has been saying all of this for years
KEY POINT... you must train til failure
You can’t take the most elite of the most elite bodybuilder of all time and say that’s the standard on how to train
Comment for the algorithm
Thats why it absolutely cracks me up when u see ppl commenting on Ronnie, branch etc saying look at how bad the form is,that's about as funny as saying look at how bad there diet is..like it's clearly not working for them being almost 300 lb of solid muscle LOL.if anything I'd say they fig out what the answer on how to get huge
Wow this women is so smart and articulate who is she?
Dani LaMartina
RC said he always had back issues even from high school
Conversation that a lot of people overthink your body will respond to you any type of stimulus start off with great genetics dial in your diet and respond well to drugs looks wise
3x5 moves 3x5 reps/ set 3x5 mins rest. 70% 1 rep max. 3x5 days a week. This is for max strength. After 5 weeks take a day off test your 1 rep max, now go back to rep training with your new weight load.
💯👍
Dani = smart 👍
Train like Ronnie,Jay or Arnold before become advanced is the worst mistake. I did it and i regret that, i lost time of proper muscle hypertrophy.
At the same time I wasted a lot of time and potential newb gains doing perfect form exercises with a weight that probably was t enough to induce hypertrophy. It can work both way in that.
@@HkFinn83 heavy weight is a wast of time would only workout with a 35 pound plate on each side of the bar with best form I can do super concentrated to make every rep count as in slowly dropping the weight to exploding up and making sure to squeeze bit just push the chest and repeat got huge not the strongest but 315 lb bench 385 squat deadlift 500 watever is 5 plates off of never deadlifting , decline bench pressing and squatting also extra movements for the groups light weight except for legs heavy high reps
Completely agree on explosive concentric. All this BS science going slow on the concentric is garbage. Always explode out of the box. Slow on the negative. Some very great points guys.
I agree. To me, it is counter-intuitive to think that an explosive concentric motion will not activate the most possible muscle fibers, which is what we want.
who says that tho?
interesting.
She said, can't get stronger with good form, or words to that effect, what the hell. 😄
amen
It was true for me, im a naturally bigger guy,I saw the biggest results when lifting that aggressive bad form heavy style sets, but damn your body gets destroyed, I'm older so for longevity sake had 2 change .Ronnie is a genetic freak of nature than add his work ethic ,monster, but it did kill his hips .
What’s the lady’s name?
I hope this won’t come off as hating but I’ve gotta say it. Ronnie has way more injuries than just his lower back and hips. He had a lat tear, tears/nerve damage in his left arm, etc. I think it’s a little dangerous to suggest that training the way he did would be optimal for most people. Training in that sort of range of motion will definitely increase your chances of injury. I would always suggest having full control of the weight throughout a full range of motion for results and safety. I do think that they got the rep range right though I’d say 8-12 is great. I even like to go as low as 6 reps in a set for large compound movements like bent rows. I do actually hear the argument for (well he’s probably getting his whole body to failure anyways what with all the flailing) but come on guys, regardless of your stance on how much extra muscle you might build trying to work out like Ronnie or branch warren, this sort of lifting is just dangerous for your joints and ligaments. For 99.9% of people the trade off won’t be worth the risk
I think they downplayed the extent of Ronnie’s injuries to be fair. Ronnie’s body is beat up. He’s definitely the greatest Mr Olympia of all time but he’s also the most “beat up” Mr Olympia of all time as well unfortunately. Ronnie can definitely be looked at as a cautionary tale in some respects. He pushed the envelope on every aspect of bodybuilding to the max (training, drugs, and food) and unfortunately he’s paying for it now in a really major way. I also didn’t like how in the beginning they alluded to some kind of “botched” back surgery. Ronnie is being operated on by the best of the best orthopaedic surgeons in the country. None of his surgeries were botched. Unfortunately, Ronnie would never give his body the proper/adequate time to rest (eg zero resistance training) which would negate the benefits/results/goals of the surgery. Long story short, he’d be breaking the titanium rods they inserted into his back because he would go back to lifting heavy pretty much straight away and the force he’d be putting on these newly inserted rods would just be too much, causing them to break. Believe me when I say, Ron is being operated on by the best orthopaedic surgeons money can buy. The surgeons are definitely not the issue. Dude just doesn’t know how to back off the weight training, especially post surgery, which is really silly and sad. I know mans is doing what he loves but he really needs to rethink his approach; especially if he wants to be around to see his little ones grow up. Dude has an army of kids. God only knows the amount of oxycodone his body would be physically/mentally dependent on at this stage of which in the long term cannot be good for your internal organs. Heavy opioid use over a long period of time can cause a myriad of internal problems such as constipation, renal damage, hepatoxicity (liver damage) etc. I know it sounds like i’m taking shots at Ron but I genuinely love the dudes dedication and passion for the sport and I know we may never see another physique like his on stage again, at least in our lifetime. King Ron’s definitely the goat and always will be. Long live the King.
Yea! You’re hating!!
Good content, but this was a clickbait caption. Topic discussed doesn’t really match.
Uhhhh….that’s all they talked about lol what video you watch?
could anyone please give me a tldr?
I think the missing link in this discussion is juice. I'm natural and the best growth for me is slow eccentric, controlled, full range of motion. Very big on using my mind to destroy the muscle I'm working. Always sore the next day. 6 to 8 reps on most exercises. Deadlifts 8 to 10 reps, to not over stress back as I'm relatively lean. 20 plus years at this style. Dorian yates Hit style adapted for me. This works for me. Perhaps I'm small in clothes, but I got growth in all muscles and good shape. Definitely a different look than a juiced out behemoth. But I can run 15 miles and still got functional muscle. I think juice has to come up in a discussion like this. I don't judge either, total personal choice. But with juice I think you have to change the idea of works slightly, although I still think you would get great results by slow and controlled reps. Maybe just different body styles and muscle types. I figure to cause hypertrophy the goal is to destroy muscle fibers. If my intended target is sore the next day, that's a win. If not sore, need more intensity via weight, reps or different angle. It is slow but it works for me.
By the way I love everything you put out. Dave your a good man. I'm just throwing my opinion out there. I wonder if any other natural lifters have had the same experience?
Definitely different if your natural . It’s the cardio that separates you from other naturals . So much more work is required than the gym as a natural . Your not skipping safety mechanisms of the body
@@jondoc7525 so much.. The hardest being the eating.
30 years of the same
As a natural lifter, I also find better hypertrophy in the 5-8 reps @ 75-85% range, full control to get that time under tension. Plus the eating
The girl on this show knows her stuff who is she
Dani LaMartina.
@@eliteftsofficial must look her up id say she has lots more good info thanks
Eccentric builds thickness, concentric builds strength. But really both builds strength.
Nothing but a peanut 🥜
Whatever Jay Cutler and Dorian did was best because they still look great and not in a wheelchair. I love Ronnie but whatever he did wasn't best.
Just said that people with the "good" form are always the smallest. Not true. Both Nick Walker and Derek Lunsford and many others train in a very controlled way without explosive movements and they are certainly not small.
Imo you should train in a form that works for you, if explosive movements work, do it.
Ronnie Coleman also tore his left lats and triceps...according to a comment by Dorian Yates.
Well yeah Mike can go deep on his squats because he's 5 foot 4 he doesn't have far to go to get deep
He say jay lool jay is young talk about dexter the blade 54 jay is a baby bro talk fact lool dexta 54 do his last show jay c finish in his 30th and belly way big
For those who watched this video, do yourself a favor, look up Jerry Brainum if you really want provable information from someone who has been studying and writing about these topics for 50 years. Respectfully, this video is nothing more than bro science. Lots of self proclaimed experts out there. Jerry Brainum, is all you need...Dorian Yates HIT system is arguably the best approach. As a former national competitor of nine years, the volume training approach works best if you're doing volume PED's. Otherwise, HIT is the best for not only hypertrophy but longevity.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines
Jerry Brainum full of it huh. And who's the kid you refer to? Look man, Jerry Brainum has forgotten more than you'll ever know. 99% of the bro science self proclaimed experts on here are utterly clueless. Let me educate you genius, Jerry Brainum was the Science Editor of Flex Magazine and Muscle and Fitness. He's one of the foremost bodybuilding experts in the world. You would do well to read, watch and listen to what he has to say. You'll learn something I guarantee it. Lastly, natural, not natural, it doesn't matter, HIT principles are proven the world over. Here endith the lesson junior...
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines
There's no helping you. The only thing that's been dead for years is bodybuilders who built their physiques and careers by paying their dues with years of training regardless of system. Using your handle Old Skool Bodybuilding, you should recognize the athletes today depend on drugs over years of training. There's a reason for so many deaths in the sport today. As I've said before, we will have more Dallas Mccarver tragedies if methodology and application aren't changed. To this end, I would pay to hear you debate Dorian Yates about HIT's death as you call it. Until next time...
You guys are over thinking this. Guys using steroids can use bad form and cause that extra muscle "damage" because the steroids can rapidly repair it. Natural guys cannot repair that much damage.
High intensity, High Volume (3 to 5 times a week.....1 or 2 exercises), High Reps (20 to 50......straight reps or drop sets), High time under tension (60 seconds). You make that happen with a muscle, it will grow 👍😉😉 ...... stop trying to sound smart. Oh, Dave Tate .... Great Career Bro. Now that's intensity 👍😎. Hammer Curls only using 30 lb dumbbells performing 50-75 reps AMRAP style until complete and as quick as possible. Great Bicep peak, Brachialis fully developed and Forearms got jacked too (Brachioradialis 😉....... I know stuff too 😁 Physical Therapist Assistant was my career). Tricep Hang from Bilateral Overhead Tricep Extension using one 30 lb Dumbbell x 100 reps AMRAP style until complete and as quick as possible. Band pull aparts for the Shoulders. Did those exercises 5-10 times a day, everyday. Massive growth spurt once incorporated. Keto diet, no carbs.
You should do some steroids. they do work but most Natty's would be extremely disappointed after they do their first cycle when they find out that's not what's making all the difference. Not locking out is hugely beneficial to muscle mass and joint health. It's how the most developed people trained hands down
I think they downplayed the extent of Ronnie’s injuries to be fair. Ronnie’s body is beat up. He’s definitely the greatest Mr Olympia of all time but he’s also the most “beat up” Mr Olympia of all time as well unfortunately. Ronnie can definitely be looked at as a cautionary tale in some respects. He pushed the envelope on every aspect of bodybuilding to the max (training, drugs, and food) and unfortunately he’s paying for it now in a really major way. I also didn’t like how in the beginning they alluded to some kind of “botched” back surgery. Ronnie is being operated on by the best of the best orthopaedic surgeons in the country. None of his surgeries were botched. Unfortunately, Ronnie would never give his body the proper/adequate time to rest (eg zero resistance training) which would negate the benefits/results/goals of the surgery. Long story short, he’d be breaking the titanium rods they inserted into his back because he would go back to lifting heavy pretty much straight away and the force he’d be putting on these newly inserted rods would just be too much, causing them to break. Believe me when I say, Ron is being operated on by the best orthopaedic surgeons money can buy. The surgeons are definitely not the issue. Dude just doesn’t know how to back off the weight training, especially post surgery, which is really silly and sad. I know mans is doing what he loves but he really needs to rethink his approach; especially if he wants to be around to see his little ones grow up. Dude has an army of kids. God only knows the amount of oxycodone his body would be physically/mentally dependent on at this stage of which in the long term cannot be good for your internal organs. Heavy opioid use over a long period of time can cause a myriad of internal problems such as constipation, renal damage, hepatoxicity (liver damage) etc. I know it sounds like i’m taking shots at Ron but I genuinely love the dudes dedication and passion for the sport and I know we may never see another physique like his on stage again, at least in our lifetime. King Ron’s definitely the goat and always will be. Long live the King.
Ronnie Coleman’s lower back problems did not come from a squat session. According to Ronnie Coleman’s biography, Ronnie said it all began when he injured his lower back having played football.
He also commented on him doing a heavy squat deep in contest prep which is exactly where they mentioned he heard a "pop" and continued on to do a show. I'm sure a lot of things could have played into the exacerbation of the injury.
yet he lifted maximal weights leadimg up to comtest, which he drew from powerlofting.
The discussion on different torques and leverages having an impact on a good exercise selection is valid, but why does this video beat on full ROM while using pro bodybuilders as the example and THEN use Dr. Mike Isratael as an example for his full ROM leg pressing? Full ROM relative to what the lifter is capable of is more suitable from a stimulus to fatigue standpoint.
Jay Cutler half repped because his mass literally stopped him from using more ROM, or because his connective tissue was not adapted to full ROM (the result of PEDs, tendon strength lagging behind muscle strength).
So, using a pro Mr. Olympia (a 0.01% of the general population example) you are saying that half repping is better from a muscle building standpoint, AND injury prevention, despite the literature produced by Dr. Mike saying that full ROM is better for hypertrophy and long run injury prevention? Plus, the experience of 99% of other natural/enhanced lifters is somehow ignored here?
There both different ways to train one isn’t necessarily better then the other due to everyone being impacted differently by both methods. However from a power and strength standpoint i believe not locking out would be beneficial, not only for the joint but for a fatigue factor as well. Obviously if your in competition locking out would be necessary. If we are talking Hypertrophy full ROM would be better as the muscle is contracted more, so rep quality would be beneficial either way. You need to think are you trying to become more explosive or are you training to become visually bigger?
Its easy for enhanced athletes to attribute their gains to all sorts of training methodologies. I'd put Mike's ideas above most of the anecdotal stuff here. At least the stuff about half repping and form. Agree entirely with the discussion about training to your polymorphisms though.
@@Gainzville99 in the context of bodybuilding, visually bigger, so surely what you just said defeats their argument because Jay Cutler wasn't interested in being explosive or powerful, only looking bigger.
No harm in trying both and seeing what works best for you. Many people are form nazi's but they themselves are lucky to push a bodyweight of 170 in a wet shirt. At the same time, there are probably many people that do partial reps but don't look very large either, though those that are fitness influencers tend to use partials and be quite large. Many aspects go into growing muscle and every tool has its use. From partials to full ROM. Each has its place and depending on each person, you may require to use different tools for different body parts.
Jay also "half repped" because if he repped any further he'd lose the strain on the muscle he was targeting. And that was his goal, train the muscle to grow and avoid anything unnecessary. If going to lower moved the stress to another muscle, particularly one that maybe on his body was already a strong body part and he's trying to avoid working that muscle.
@@shinjig so by going Full ROM you lose tension on the target muscles? That makes absolutely zero sense. So in your mind if you go any further then partial reps then the tension releases….
Y’all need to stop talking about the elite of the elites as the example. They are the worst to compare or explain reason from.
I don't think you guys examples like Jay Cutler tore his bicep due to training Branch Warren tore his bicep and triceps.If you want to bring up a good example perhaps the best is Dexter Jackson the one who had the longest and most successful career without any major injuries.That's when you know somebody knew what he was doing.
Now that is some smart thinking by some “meatheads”
Good form?! Ashton Rouska, Russell Orhii, Sawyer Klatt, Jamal Browner! All decently sized men.
john jewett, nick gloff, mike isreatel and his crew, heck even nick walker and matt jensens guys...like cmon now, this point was off
@@watsonkushmaster3067 hella off
I'd bet the house that Ronnie Coleman shoulders and joints are a mess. He might not have complained of knee pain but anybody watching him squat watching that technique knows that his knees are probably garbage. His whole body is extremely inflamed. He is so used to pain now using painkillers etc that he probably tell you his shoulders feel great cuz that's the least of his problems. Branch Warren and Ronnie Coleman both never complained. Branch tore is quad off the bone and then was on the Arnold Classic stage 5 months later and won the thing I bet if you asked him how his quad felt he'll tell you it's fine but it wasn't fine. You can see all the tears in his arms now you'll never hear him complain.
Two words destroy your “really, really small dudes” comment regarding excellent form: Nick Walker.
I think steroids played a part?
Guy got his pro card natty soooooo
A powerbuilder will always look better if they are elite . Especially if they use bodybuilding for weak points
I don't understand why she's part of the conversation...men and women have different hormonal levels therefore different needs when it comes to maximizing hytropephy...if she trained the exact same way a man did she would be injuring herself or at best doing more damage than good even if she took drugs she would still not react to lifting the same as men on drugs...so unless she's been a man and seen what works for maximum gains and what doesn't she's not really holding water in the convos...techniques she may know but the right rep ranges for men doubt she knows that
Israetel uses "good form" full range, slow eccentric and hes jacked.