How to Consist with DCC: Function Setup
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- In this video, we're looking at CV 19, 21, and 22. This will establish the consist address as well as the active functions for each locomotive. In following videos, we will explore speed matching, which is crucial for consisting, as well as load compensation and momentum.
Enjoy!
-Cam
This was exactly the information I have been looking for! I model in N scale and some of the documentation is not really very clear on how to do this type of matched consisting. Digitrax sets out a little table on how to program CV's -2/6/5 for three different types of Locomotive - Switcher, Road Switcher and Mainline. By starting each locomotive programmed with the same value on each of these CV's, you get a good idea of where to make the adjustments. By then applying these adjustments here in your tutorial, consisting is much more simple and easy - Great Stuff!
That's great to hear! You can certainly get more fancy than this, but I never have. I think these 3 CVs do a good enough job. Thanks for the comment. I'm glad to know that people find this video useful.
-Cam
Excellent explanation Cam, you did a great job with the tutorial, you should keep this up, will really help newcomers.
Thanks! I'll have similar videos soon. I really hope they help.
-Cam
This is acually helpful
I tried consisting my ho scale southern pacific u28c witch my southern pacific ac6000 at SVL
They never ran properly
My brother said both locomotives were from different eras in time
They acually had to be the same brand of locomotives my u boat was from atlas and the ac6000 was from broadway limited imports
Each brand has different decoders and different speeds
Some go faster than others while some go slower than others
This is a very useful and helpful video, especially for those of us who want to run our modern diesels in multiple units. Thanks for posting it. ...Roy
I'm glad to hear it was, Roy. More to come soon!
-Cam
Very nice video, Cam! I know I'm not the only one who really appreciates that you go nice and slow, and really explain it all! Can't wait for the next one!
~Phillip
Thanks, Phillip! I'm glad this could be helpful. I'll have more soon.
-Cam
Very good Cam, this is exactly what I'm looking for consisting 2 locos. I'm off to implement your numbers! Thank You!!!
Concise and informative video. I was having problems consisting two Walthers Proto E8's using the typical NCE Advanced Consisting method; but this method did the trick. Thanks.
Thanks for the excellent explanation, I always just used old style consisting because it seemed simpler. Looking forward to giving this a try on the club layout. I copied your chart down for future reference, it really helps make everything understandable.
Great info Cam!
Love this video btw....made an excel spread sheet to auto calculate these values...only thing I had to learn the hard way is that once a value is loaded into CV19, the decoder only respond sto the secondary CV19 addres and not the Primary short or long address. Please keep up the good work
Nice video and explains the why of cv 21 and 22 I did not understand. Thank you. Will be looking forward to your future videos on the rest of consisting and CV programming. Mark
Thanks, Mark! I'm really glad this was helpful.
-Cam
thanks for the info. I was trying to figure thus out just yesterday. headed to the work bench!!
Thanks for watching! And I guess this was good timing, haha.
-Cam
Cam you make easy to do. The manual confused me thanks for this video and the ones to follow.John
That's awesome! Glad to hear it, John. There's more to come soon.
-Cam
Thanks again Cam.... Another good explanation.......Ed
wow cool i was looking consisting how to do it to my trains mi new to dcc . i was looking at Speed matched Locomotives to your information was very helpful! to me now got to look at video;s and do it cool ty
Excellent video, you have taken a subject that is about as clear as muddy water and made it crystal clear to me. Thank you. One question, you are using F8 as a MUTE, what if I wanted the engines to be muted on startup with F8 turning on the sound? So basically if F8 sound on, not F8 sound off.
Excellent explanation on how to advance consist locomotive's. Btw how do you adjust for BEMF or voltage start to prevent lurching at speed step 1 ? I have same system as you (NCE power cab)
Thanks your information was very helpful!
Dude this is just the series I was needing. I havent speed matched any of my units and was dreading trying to figure it out. There just isnt any vids explaining in very good detail how to do this. Once again thanks Cam!! P.S. I have the PR3 but havent even takin it out of the box yet. Didnt know if that was what your using on your units or just setting CV's manually. Guess I will find out soon enough lol.
Awesome! I'm glad this helps. And I just changed the CVs by programming on the main with my NCE Power Cab.
-Cam
Hey Cam, what do you need to do if you want to take an engine out of the consist? Im sure its a simple step lol.
With this method, you just need to program CV19 to 0 for that locomotive. Pretty simple. If I remember correctly, you don't even have to change CV 21 or 22. The nice thing about that is when you put that locomotive back into a consist, it will retain all of the "consist functions" you programmed before like dynamic brakes, etc. Depending on where that locomotive winds up next time, you might have to fool with the lighting though.
-Cam
Thanks Cam. Much appreciated!!
Great video thank you very much for putting it up it definitely helps explain a lot easier. 2 questions. First one is to initially set the consist do you have to go to set up or once you press the 3 CVs 19 21 22 on your locomotives does it automatically put it in a consist? Second question is once you're done with this consist do you have to put the 3 CV's back to zero to run the trains independently again? Thank you very much have a good day
great instructional video, love those engines thanks for sharing.
Thanks! I thought it was a colorful consist. Matches my marker colors too.
-Cam
Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance 🚂👍👍👍
Thanks, Lance! I'll have more soon.
-Cam
Thanks cause I'm new to DCC
Awesome video! I found this very helpful.
Thanks! That's what I was hoping.
-Cam
Great instructional video
Thanks! I appreciate it.
-Cam
Nice tutorial! Thanks
Nice Job I need to focus more on that
Thanks! Hope it can be of some help.
-Cam
nice video! I need to learn more about this DCC wizardry myself......
Thanks! I'll have more DCC videos soon. Hopefully they help.
-Cam
hey have you purchased any of the athearn genesis sd70macs in the BN/BNSF cream and grean scheme from the latest run? I have the BNSF one but I want to purchase one of the BN ones from one of the later phases but only if the green is the same shade. I know athearn sometimes fades the "patched out" locos but I don't know if the BNSF one is lighter in color than the BN one? any thoughts?
No. We only have the KCS one which I think was from that run. Looking at the photos on their website, it doesn't look like the green differs any. The cream color looks slightly darker on the BNSF patch unit, but I think the lighting was just different for the photo.
Awesome information.
Could you tell me if it is possible to make functions 13 to 21 available to consists? CV21 is F1-8 and CV22 is F0 & F9-12, is there a different CV number for the rest? Many thanks.
This was great. Thanks
Thanks! Glad you think so.
-Cam
Pretty snazzy sounds and controls they have nowadays!
good morning i have a question i have a mrc prodigy advance how do i get function 20-28 keys thanks
So when programming CV21 and 22 do you have to select each individual locomotive and change the value?
That is correct.
-Cam
What if i have bachman ez command
just what i was looking for, this should work on the new SD40-2 and the new tier 4's from scale trains? one question when you were backing up the consist did the trailing unit lights come on if equipped? ditch or cab light. another great video thanks for the time you put into these video.
Thanks! I'm really glad it was helpful. This will work great with those new releases. The rear locomotive's light did not come on in this video, but if I had programmed its CV 22 to a value of 2, it would've. Another way to do it would be to recall that locomotives number, turn on any functions you want, and then return to the consist address to move it around.
-Cam
good video for setting that up. but where did you get the numbers in red and green.
Thanks! Those are just the values that correlate to each function. That's just a universal rule. You can find them in ESU, Tsunami, etc. manuals.
-Cam
I noticed when i make a consist with my NCE, it only turns on the lead unit headlight. But the other CVs i need to try, because if i have a unit that runs well alone, and i put as trailing unit in consist, it drops out and lead unit drags it about an inch then it comes back. But run it alone and it is fine. Happens with both athearn, walthers and intermountain locos. All this when i just use nce defaults when making consist. Thanks
i have the same issue with an Athearn Genesis on MRC prodigy DCC. If you found a solution please post it here.
Great video just what I am planing to try next just picked up 2 RS-3s for this. My question is about moving between systems (NCE - Digitrax) I have nce but my club have Digitrax and I have experienced problems with numbering before with my S-2 No 4 e.g. Would work on home layout but not the club layout turned out NCE address 1-126 where Digitrax does not so I had to change the way I had numbered the switcher to work on both systems. Just wondering if there may be a similar problem with consisting :~)
Thanks! And I don't really know. I've used Digitrax on my friends layout before, and I didn't have any address problems. All of my locomotives have a long address with 4 digits so that might make a difference. Not sure if the same will be true with consist addresses.
-Cam
Just thought I would ask before I get there. re my address problem that we solved in the end even Joe Fugate did not know the answer he thought I had a consist set up that was causing the problem
What if u got an intermountain an a Athearn dcc will the consists numbers be different??
Hi there! The consist number can be anything between 1 and 127, and that's independent of the manufacture of your DCC decoders. It's possible that you Intermountain and Athearn locomotives have the same decoders, but even if they're different, it doesn't matter what you make the consist address. The individual locomotive addresses, however, should be different from each other. I usually make them the number on the cab. The one thing that is typically different between locomotives is the speed curve. You might want to look at speed matching if your locomotives don't run well together. I have a video on that as well.
-Cam
My question is: Do you need to speed-match all locomotives in the consist? If so, I do not know how to do that. Also, I have a Bachmann NS heritage unit, an Intermountain NS ES40DC, and a Broadway Limited Imports UP SD40-2. The SD40-2 runs perfectly, no breaks in the sound or lighting, where the other two do frequently. What should I do about that?
This should help me out :D
one last thing: Do they all have to have the same sound decoder (ESU, Soundtraxx, Paragon2, etc...)
Good questions. What I do is pick a locomotive that runs well, and then change the speed curve of the other locomotives to match the one. I'll talk about how to do that quickly in my next video. Also the consist can have a mixture of decoders. The one in this video had two Soundtraxx and one Digitrax.
And I have that problem with some locomotives too. I think after a while, the contacts get grease/dirt on them and they start to not work quite as well. So a solid cleaning of the locomotive would help. Adding some conductive lubricant like CRC 2-26 (I got mine at Lowes) helps. But what I plan to do in all of my locomotives is add Keep Alives which is basically a big capacitor. That will prevent locomotive sound/lighting to flicker or stop on dirty or uneven track. Because even the best running locomotive can have issues over a slightly uneven turnout. Hope that helps!
-Cam
It should help, thanks! I'll check the wheels on my Intermountain, although it has been stalling since I got it, not just on turnouts, but on the track itself. I clean the track every so often (I have a small layout) I'll clean the track, if that doesn't help, I'll clean the wheels to my engines, and if that doesn't help...I'll take it to my local hobby store and see what they can do (I'm not very fond of looking inside my HO scale locomotives, let alone experienced.)
I don't know what radius track you have, but when I had my NS ES40DC on my old layout, one of the truck pickup wires came loose. I think it was because the track radius was tight and over time it kept pulling on the wire. So you might want to try picking up one end of the locomotive at a time. If the engine turns off when one truck is in the air, then you know the one that's on the track has a wire loose.
-Cam
Thank you so much for that tip! One of the wires on the rear truck is loose. I'll take it to my hobby store and have it fixed up (I don't know how to, my parents only buy the stuff so they won't know how to, etc)
~Tobias S. (Trains N' Stuff)
so just to clarify something, when you consist these three engines and do cv 19, 21 and 22, do you have to select each individual engine number such as 3804 before you do the 3 cvs, or do you do the front unit as 127 and then program the cv values, then do 255 for the two trailing units, and then enter the cvs under number 255? also, if the second one doesnt have sound and the third one does, how would you set the value of 0 for cv21 on the second one only if both trailing units are under value 255? thanks, great video, looking forward to doing some consisting, and wasnt sure why the horn wasnt working on the leader when i put 3 units together, i always had to dial in the first engine number to turn the headlight on and then go back to my consist address for movement.
Yes, I would select each individual locomotive number and input the CV values. Then they should all respond to one consist address and have the proper functions. If the 2nd unit doesn't have sound, I just wouldn't even worry about programming anything into CV21. The only time you might want to is if it was on one of the ends and had lighting functions on like F5 or F6, something like that. But if you don't need any lighting, CV21 won't matter for that middle unit without sound. And even if the two trailing units both have a consist value of 255, you still want to program under the locomotive's address, like 7519, 9580, etc. That will differentiate which locomotive is receiving programming. I'm not sure why the horn or headlight wouldn't work under the consist address. I didn't have any problems, so I'd just go back and make sure the numbers add up.
Also, If you're using an NCE system, I have found it easier to just make the consist up using the consist function on the cab. It asks you questions like which are the lead locomotives, and what the direction of travel is. Even though you aren't manually programming CV values, the NCE system is programming CV 19, 21, and 22 automatically. However, using that function, the NCE system basically shuts off all functions for the middle and trailing units, so I would still go in and program CV 21 and 22 to your liking. I just think it's easier to set up the consist order that way because it gets you half way there and then you really only have to change a couple of CVs for the trailing locomotives if you want dynamic brakes, mute, etc.
-Cam
Thanks again
I do have a few more questions: My intermountain's Startup sequence is F8, and notch up and down is F9 and F10, my bachmann has no startup sequence, or notch up and down, and my BLI has a startup which is F9, and the notch up and down are F5 and F6. Since my bachmann has no startup sequence, pressing F8 mutes it and the BLI, but starts up the Intermountain, and pressing F9 starts up my BLI, and notches up my intermountain, and doesn't do anything for the bachmann.
What do you think I should do about that if consisting doesn't help it? Would consisting help all of that?
Also, I get what you're saying about consisting and all of that, and I use an NCE Powercab, but I'm not sure how exactly to program the multiple functions (CV19=127, 255, and CV21=255, 136, and 136 (for my engines) It just confuses me because I'm not sure if I add up 127 and 255 and if I don't, I either have 127 as an option or 255 as one.
I also have never ever consisted any engines in my whole life (let alone speed-matched, lol) so I am 100% new to this whole thing.
No problem! I appreciate the questions. The first problem you have won't be solved with consisting. That's a function mapping problem, and it sort of depends on the decoder you're using. I'm pretty sure you can't change the function numbers of the BLI unit, but you will be able to function map the InterMountain locomotive. Check out this link (assuming the InterMountain has ESU) and go to page 26: www.intermountain-railway.com/customerservice/dccwebpage/ESU-LokSound-Select-Manual.pdf
Since you're concerned with manual notching, it looks like you'll want to change those functions to function 5 and 6 like the BLI. To do that, you'll see at the top right that there is a column for notch up and notch down. There's also a control CV column which controls which function output/number you will program those functions to. Also, there is the CV32 column. To make a change for function 5 and 6, make sure you first program CV32 to a value of 2.
Then, it looks like CV 365 controls F5 and CV 381 controls F6. The notch up value is 2 and the notch down value is 4. So, change CV 365 to a value of 2 and CV 381 to a value of 4. Now F5 and F6 will control notching on your InterMountain locomotive. You can do this with all other functions too; just look at the specific CVs and values involved using the chart. You'll probably need to relocated whatever functions were originally at F5 and F6 (likely numberboards and ditchlights) to other functions (maybe put them at F9 and F10). That might get complicated since the NS units have front and rear ditchlights, so I don't know exactly what AUX outputs the lights are wired to. If you can't figure that out, I'll do some research.
Summary:
1.Change CV 32 to 2
2. Change CV 365 to 2
3. Change CV 381 to 4
4. Relocate functions from F5 and 6 elsewhere.
Then for the second part of your question, there's actually an easier way to do all of this on the Power Cab. I just did it with CV 19 because it will work on all DCC systems. Anyway, just go to the consist area on your throttle, hit "setup", and then enter the locomotive numbers and which direction they're traveling. That will create your consist, and you can still change CV 21 and 22 to get the functions you want.
But if you want to do it the way I did in the video, CV 19 is a value between 1-127. This needs to be the same value for each locomotive in the consist if you want them to run together. However, if there is one or more locomotives in your consist that is facing the opposite direction (back-to-back instead of front-to-back), you must add a value of 128 to whatever number you chose as the consist number. So it doesn't have to be 127 and 255. For example, you could choose a consist number of 1. For locomotives facing forward in the consist, program CV 19 to 1. If there is a locomotive that is facing opposite of the lead unit, then add a value of 128 to 1, and program that in to CV 19. So, for those locomotives, the CV 19 value will be 129. Now, when you select "1" on your cab, all of the locomotives will run together. So if you chose your consist number as 127, then you will either program CV 19 to 127 (forward locomotives) or 255 (backward locomotives) because 127 + 128 = 255. So you shouldn't be adding 127 to 255.
Ok that's just a characteristic of ESU decoders. It's kind of tricky, because unlike Tsunami decoders when you press to notch up and it goes up one notch, when you engage the notch up function with ESU, it will continue to notch up until you hit the button again. Then to notch down, you can hit that button and it will go down to idle unless you hit the button again. I really don't like it because it's super finicky. Check out this link: www.sbs4dcc.com/images/LS_FW_46_Manual_Notching_Quick_Start_Guide.pdf
Here's a good summary: "The number
of notches increased depends on how long the key is engaged, and when the key is disengaged it will hold the notch it settles at.
(With a little practice you will be able to “time” your desired notch.) Once you have engaged MN it stays in effect until the locomotive is brought to a stop, AND the
sound is brought down to idle. Then the operation reverts to normal pre-manual notching behavior, and can be engaged again
when you wish. You do not need to change a CV to go between Manual Notching and Normal Notching. This can be done “on the fly” as you feel it is desired."
And honestly sometimes it doesn't feel like it's working but just be patient. I've found that usually if you start manual notching before the locomotive has moved, it will go to notch 8 before you can bring it back down. But when you're moving, you can stop it before it gets to notch 8.
Thanks for the info, it worked. It is my first locomotive with ESU, so now I know with notch up and down.
However, I'm not sure what AUX outputs (or inputs) the ditch lights and numberboards belong to.
I'm so sorry for the hassle.
good video but you might have to set the front headlight to be on regardless of direction. if you back up the train you dont want the leaders headlight out.
Thanks! Yes very true. To do that, you would have to set F0(f) and F0(r) for the lead unit to different function outputs. I was curious about that myself after your comment, so I tried changing CV22 for the lead unit for a value of 3, but all that did was make it so that the rear light turned on when backing up.
-Cam
I should also add that I totally agree with you. That's much more prototypical. When I typically setup consists, I just use NCE's easy way of doing it, and when you do that, you can control the consist with the lead or trailing loco's address. So when you turn on the headlights for the consist, the command is only being sent to the locomotive address you're on. Therefore, when you change the directions of the consist, the lights stay on the front. I don't know why that is exactly, but I think the DCC system separates motor functions under CV 19 and other functions under the loco address while simultaneously allowing you to control motor functions with the loco address. That was long-winded, so sorry about that.
Thanks for the replies, im still learning consisting and such, i can string together engines, but usually i couldnt get the leader to blow the horn ring the bell etc. Your video made sense, but I got a little lost about how to assign the cvs to the individual units. Say I have unit 1234 2345 and 3456 i would assign my 3 engines a consist of 001 and while consisting it asked for direction, so i would enter the engine number and select reverse for backwards units. Other than that, i would have to go back to select unit number 1234 to turn on the front headlight, and 3456 to turn on the front headlight on it, but in forwards, that would turn on the rear light on 3456 so i was trying to figure that out. If i assign these 3 units to a consist like you said 127, any backwards facing units would be 255, but when i assign cv 19 21 and 22 do i select 127 and then cv 19 to add the values, or still go to unit 1234 and put in cv 19 values then 21 and 22, then go to 2345 and do the same? thanks, sorry for all the questions.
Considting
Hey man great explanation but could you possibly show us how to do it all on the Power Cab? I have one and your charts etc are understandable but actually putting it to use is somewhat confusing aka programming it in. Would you be able to do a how to video of what you are actually trying to explain by showing us how to do it with the Powercab? What I'm getting at is you're saying program each locomotive to a certain address then program their CV's for this function etc how exactly do you do that for each locomotive once they are consisted? Thanks. :)
Yeah, no problem! I originally intended to do this video with instructions for the NCE system, but I decided against it for the sake of time and to make it more generic. I will do a separate, how to consist/program with the NCE PowerCab video. It's pretty simple. You just hit the program button at the bottom, make sure the right locomotive address is typed in, and toggle to "program on main". Then you select, "program CVs" (I think it's the second option), and makes the necessary changes. Again, I'll do a video to make it even simpler.
Thanks for the comment!
-Cam
Or you could buy RailPro and make life much easier lol
Haha, true. I’ll admit, it has been very tempting lately. If their Tier 4 GEVO sound file happens to be better than ESU’s when it comes out, that might push me over the edge.
-Cam