Is Crosby The Greatest Of All Time?
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- No, not in my opinion, no. I find the GOAT arguments kind of futile.
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Didn't Gretzky himself say that Lemieux would have broken all his records if he stayed healthy?
He did, yes.
he was on pace for 97 goals and 224 points in 92-93. you can hardly blame a guy for getting cancer.
mario 1751 career 99 1696 as an oiler in 9 seasons or wayne more than 1200 points in 5 seasons
@@doaftheloaf
That 92-93 season was crazy. He was out for over 20 games and still won the scoring title.
@@kidpoker9408
900 games and nearly 700 goals. Give Mario as much games as Gretzky had and he'd be way over a 1000 goals in his career.
I think it's super interesting that I haven't heard that many people talk about Malkin's place in history. He has an MVP season, has lead the league in points once, lead the playoffs in points twice now, has a Calder and a conn smythe. So he may not get the attention that Crosby has been getting but the pens don't get to four finals and win three without the contributions of Malkin.
Probably 4th best Penguin behind Lemieux, Crosby and Jagr. If he was on another team or there was no Sid he would get much more attention.
david johnson he doesn't play 200 feet, he disappears for long stretches. He forces individual play and can be a puck hog. I saw him get better at moving the puck this postseason but all of these things make me hesitate with him. He's an incredible force and talent but I don't know if he's on pace with other greats who had all the things he lacks. Like a getzlaf who is always creating for others, plays a tough game, great at protecting the puck and doesn't force plays or moves, rarely has bad turnovers. In fact I think getzlaf should be more selfish sometimes. But yea malkin is great but he lacks a lot of qualities to be considered the best. A lot of it is decision making.
El Cuñado 1st off I do totally agree that getzlaf should get a ton more respect and be more selfish at times. he almost put the ducks in the finals this year when he started to shot a bit more instead of his usual pass 1st play style. Crosby, Thornton, and him are 3 players with incredible shots that usually play a pass 1st style.
2nd I just don't agree on Malkin. everyone turns the puck over in hockey they just do. now he could be a lot stronger on the puck but every player has different strengths and weaknesses that just happens to be one of his. but I'm not going to fault him for trusting his own skill and trying to make a 1 on 1 play 2 or 3 times a game. it hasn't hurt the team. he knows when to go for it by himself and when to play in the flow of the teams offense. as shown by him leading the playoffs in scoring 2 times and he tied Kessel for the lead in power play points this playoffs. that just goes to show how much of a playmaker he is. I'm sorry I think you have him misunderstood by a wide margin.
He wil retire as one of many underappriciated players of he`s generation. Malkin is a futre hall of famer without a question
honestly if Malkin was Canadian and Crosby was the Russian Malkin would get all the attention even if Crosby was the better player. Not saying he is better then Crosby because he is not but he is a lock for the Hall of fame without a doubt and is one of the best players in his generation just like Crosby Ovie Kane etc...
With all that said tho even if he fell off after that 09 cup I think he is still a lock for the hall of fame for being the first and only Russian to win the Conn Smythe those kind of records get guys in, or at least should.
We gotta get this guy discovered!!!!! Would love to see him on ESPN, TSN or NHL Network.
Timbuktu Bushcraft he is discovered
Just Yes you do he is in network tv? He would have a lot more than 6,000 subs.
while I would love him to get a big deal with network TV, it would ruin his show network TV does not care for fair reviews etc they only care what gets views, why Toronto gets so much more coverage compared to other teams as an example.
Exactly, here he's free to have his individuality.
F the networks... just get that man paid! He is knowledgeable, via insight and experience. He's respectable to his fans, and people want to hear what he has to say... Just As "the best player of all time" has changed over the decades, commentary and expertise has evolved. CZcams is the new ESPN! We don't come here to watch just the highlights!. We come here to listen to one of us!
Put a healthy Bobby Orr in his 20s and drop him in the 80s NHL. now that would amazing to watch.
Still can't deny that Bobby Orr is one of the greatest. Not a Bruins Fan
Valiant Music Orr is the best defenseman of all time. He was ahead of his time in every facet of the game and he dominated. He was plus 150 or something one year. He won 7 straight Norris trophies. He led the league in scoring as a defenseman two years in a row. His abilities were so head and shoulders above everyone else. He's not wrong. Orr retired at 30 and that was after several injury plagued seasons.
Absolutely! Bobby Orr,Gordie Howe,Mario Lemieux,Wayne Gretzky are the greatest non-goalies of all-time!
Now. That would be scary. 160 pts? Probably.
I'm going to acknowledge Gretzky is 1 but he played in a league where goal scoring was ridiculous and goalies were stick figures. No there numbers wouldn't be that high the defensive schemes and emphasis towards defence is much greater. Goalies are 100x bigger and better.
Gretzky and Lemieux aren't just considered great because they scored about/more than 200 points. The reason is they were so much better than everyone else from their era.
That's the real measure of greatness: Transcendence. Or being ahead of the curve. It's about how you much up against YOUR rivals.
As good as Crosby is, he doesn't blow everyone else out of the water in the scoring race, and while he's a good two-way player, he doesn't win the Selke either. That's why although he's the best of his generation, he's not quite on par with past greats like Orr, Lemieux or Gretzky.
And Ovechkin has destroyed modern goalies, so it CAN be done. I know Crosby is a better player overall, but Ovie is proof that goalies aren't brick walls.
Don't put Crosby and Kane in the same sentence as the best generational player.... not even close
the only two close are ovi and malkin, and sid comes out ahead of them.
I am a lifelong Penguin fan and a relatively objective one, but I think that Patrick Kane is every bit the player as Sidney Crosby and his Hawks head to head have owned the Penguins and Crosby
@@cityofchamps66 I'm a lifelong Hawks fan but Crosby is better than Kane
@@zaid-bm7uu I think it's a legit comparison, both own 3 Cups, Hart, Art Ross, Conn Smythe, etc
@@cityofchamps66 Sid is way way more complete
I wish crosby had the huge goals and little goalie with little pads like when u started watching and those old greats where playing lol
Then you worthless so why are you here?
Lemiuex had 74 points in 43 games in 00-01 at 35 years of age clowns. full size pads. Butterfly goalies and all
A different game. Players played their position more. It was more physical.
Crosby is definitely top 5 now. The points he's putting up in this era is just ridiculous & with all his individual trophies & now 3 Stanley Cups he's easily one of the greatest of all time & he's only 29 😂
Thad Campbell the my player is better
MrTedMcForeHead Missed 7 games. 89 points in 75 games is pretty ridiculous, but a World Cup, World Cup MVP, Maurice Richard, 2 Stanley Cups, and 2 Conn Smythes is incredible. He'll likely win the Lindsey too.
MrTedMcForeHead Look at the numbers he put up last year when Sullivan took over. He would've easily of gotten over 100 points this season if he didnt miss 7 games & you also have to take into consideration the Penguins blew a lot of teams out this year so Crosby's minutes were down below 20 minutes a game this season.
Thad Campbell he's not top 5...you really can't compare him to a player like Maurice Richard or Gordie Howe, two different generations. He's an outstanding hockey player and ONE of the all time best, but is nowhere near top 5.
Inserr unnecessary laughing emoji in a comment that wasn't remotely funny. 😂
Can't compare eras....
If Crosby was Russian or American no one would be having this conversation.
Chris Scorpio thats propably true and sad as fuck
THIS!!!!!
I used to say "no goal" with all my heart, but I later learned that the rule was more complicated and it's something like the crease becomes playable when the goalie plays the puck on the play.
You should do top 150 Canadian players for Canada 150
2022 called another 50 goal season for Ovi
he is top 5 along with gretzky lemieux orr and howe
gretzky
lemieux
orr
crosby
howe
no.
@@doaftheloaf yes
@@YeYe-db6ur ahead of richard, beliveau, lafleur, bossy, trottier, potvin, bobby hull, esposito, yzerman, sakic, messier, jagr, roy, hasek, brodeur, dryden, dionne, lidstrom, bourque, and anyone else i'm forgetting?
i'm assuming you're under the age of 25.
@@doaftheloaf yes sid would dominate that era easily lmaoo
@@YeYe-db6ur first of all, that's several different eras i have there. second, yes, he would be a dominant player in any era, to be sure, but top 5 ever seems a stretch to me. top 10, i can accept that. top 5, i don't think i can.
sid's career high is 120 points. during his career, 3 players have bested that: nikita kucherov, jaromir jagr, and joe thornton.
If u compare Crosby to Kane or toews sid destroys both of them in points
toews is way overrated. how long until he's bought out?
@@doaftheloaf that contract is already atrocious 😂
@@tychoncek well now it’s not even the worst on the team. toews expires after next year. you have jones until 2030.
at least kane was worth the money.
Crosby is definitely top 5 all time. You can’t really compare different eras. For me, my list would be:
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe
5. Crosby
It's hard to ignore the fact that players before the mid 90's (give or take) had it much easier to score than now. The goalies were tiny and they had 50% of the net to shoot on.
Not to say these greats don't deserve respect, but you can take an average AHLer of today and put him in a game in the old days of the NHL and he'd be a leading point scorer.
The talent has risen exponentially. Not even close. Any random 3rd liner today would crush most teams best players from the 70's
It is amazing how many sports fans don't appreciate greatness in the moment
Lemieux
Gretzky
Crosby
Bobby Orr >> Crosby.
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Crosby
Matthew Irwin
Lemieux
Crosby
Datsyuk
Looked at the title and LAUGHED AND LAUGHED. Simple answer is not even close. Gretzky, Howe, Hull, Trottier, LeFluer and even Jagr all jump to mind way before Crosby.
Crosby is easily in the top 10 if all time.
1st? No, I agree with THG Lemieux and Gretzky are in front of him but he's definitely up there with the all time greats!
Along with Orr, Howe, Richard and others. He's top 5 in my mind.
Jean-Sebastien Primeau Sid would have just as many points had he been in the 80s and 90s, plus he plays defense soo
lol... no, he wouldn't. He scores 85-90 now. The last three years, he's been outscored by another former first overall pick (Tavares, Kane, McDavid). He's very, very good but isn't this untouchable, unrivaled player who is head-and-shoulders above everyone else.
He'd have scored about 150 points in the 80s. Still not good enough to be at the Mario/Gretzky level. And he's expected to play defense. Every centre in the modern NHL is. It's not like he's the only defensively sound centre.
Paul Grewal last three.years.he still lead the league in points a.game except last. And.he has.been 28 since then...he is head and shoulders above the 7 years b4 that..just look at.points a game. Now he is leading in this era of scoring isn't everything and playing d unlike the rest to championships by offense driving and dominating big games yet doing.things.no one else can in reg. Season as well look at his goals this year...behind.net, off mask, out of.air, still with speed.one hand on backhand...those put.him head above
Paul Grewal also.they did the numbers and yes he would be close to.them go look it up
If you are ONLY talking about scoring, the top 5 of all time are
1) Gretzky
2) Lemieux
3) Orr (only Dman ever to lead league in scoring)
4) Bossy (greatest pure goal scorer ever) AVERAGED 57 goals a year. 4th all time in points per game, 1st all time in goals per game.
5) Crosby, 5th all time points per game, despite playing in a lower scoring era.
Too bad he was super shitty this year in 1st round LOL
Crosby being in the conversation with Mario or Wayne, Howe or Orr, that in itself is enough. How many great players don’t even get considered. Jagr is second in points but isn’t even mentioned. That’s how good 87 is. Pittsburgh is spoiled.
I know you're not a Habs fan, but where does Maurice Richard stand ?? He was the guy that sparked the Quiet Revolution in the late 1960's and into 1970's ?? Time came into the standstill when then NHL Commissioner Clarence Campbell suspended him for the entire season including the playoffs during the spring of 1955 ???
according to Dallas and Brett himself the nhl changed the rule half way through that if you had possession of the puck in the crease and didnt cause the gaolie to be unable to make the save it still counted because people were getting empty net goals called back when they skated the puck in the net
Pre-concussion Crosby yes top 5 all time....the current Crosby, he's only top 10 all time. He's so good that his consolation prize for being diminished after near career ending concussions is to only be the best player in the NHL. That's how good he is.
Pre concussion only had 1 cup so I think he still top five after he still nasty ah
@@YeYe-db6ur by age 24 pre-concussion Crosby had 1 Cup, 1 Olympic Gold, 1 World Hockey Gold. Now imagine what he would have done continuing that trend at peak level. But even a diminished post-concussion Crosby, yes, he was still so good that he was still head and shoulders the best in the NHL for a long time.
McDavid on the other hand by age 24 has 0 cups, 0 olympic gold, 0 world hockey gold.
People also forget how good Crosby was before his concussions. He is the youngest player to reach 100 points. In his 2nd season he led the NHL with 120 points and became the youngest player and the only teenager to win a scoring title in any major North American sports league. Think about how good he was! He's also the youngest captain in NHL history to win a Cup.
In 09-10 he scored 51 goals and in 11 he was on pace to score 65 goals until the first and most serious concussion derailed all of this. After his concussions while he still had a couple 100+ point season, he was nowhere close to being what we saw in him the first 6 years in the NHL. He's MUCH better than McDavid. People who don't know hockey won't be able to understand this. He could do everything pretty much better than anyone else in the league.
Back when Gretzky played look how small the goalies and their equipment was. Also the athleticism of the goalies then wasn't NEAR what it is now. I think if you put Crosby in that era, it would be closer than his haters want to admit. And it isn't just about points. Crosby plays a complete game. A 200 foot game. Crosby plays in the corners and in front of the net as well. Gretzky and Lemieux didn't. Also, nobody touched Gretzky without dealing with Semenko or McSorley. Crosby has ZERO protection.
Crosby played with wooden sticks up until he was like in his 5th year in the NHL
he also doesn't have a policeman to cover his ass like gretzky did
Yes but does Crosby have unbeatable records
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe
5. Crosby
6. Messier
...
Nicholas Chamoun And after that its the Hulls
Nicholas Chamoun off of stats yes.
John Kennely Underrated, he was behind the shadow of Gretzky in Edmonton
LOL @ Messsier at 6. There are so many hockey players better than him like Lidstorm and Jagr.
Patrick Kane and toews are nowhere near Crosby status.
Jason Teal um what do u mean Kane by himself is as or more offensively capable as Crosby
Just Yes you do no he is not look at career point totals and Crosby missed 2 years of his prime. Sid plays center so he has so much more responsibility on the ice. Much better 2 way player. Great at face offs. The ultimate leader. Etc.
Jason Teal toews has much better defense than Crosby plus I'm arguing because you said their not near crosby level which they are and Kane is a much better passer than Crosby
Just Yes you do both are not near Crosby. Both hawks players would admit it. Kane is not a better passer. Toews will never get a 1000 points.
Jason Teal skkkkkkkkkk
I am a Red Wings fan but agree Wayne and Mario are the best..............
Corrections of this video?
Nope!
Sid is a special winner, special guy, special hockey player, special clutch gene, special everything that you just cant put your finger on.
But numbers being numbers and physical skills being physical skills.
You cant be honest and not say Gretzky isnt the greatest hockey player ever.
Physically, Could Lemieux be a better player and a bigger physical talent than Gretzky.
But overall, Gretzky has to be considered the greatest NHL player ever.
Crosby on the ice by alot of Pittsburgh. Is considered the most skilled grinder and puck protector to ever play.
Lemieux made hockey look slow with how amazing his hands were, and was big enough to play big, with the hands and skills of a typical smaller player.
They are all 3 better at certain things than the others.
Put them together on a line, for fun?
Left wing - Lemieux - He made the circle and the corner boards his home. Absolute freak one timer. Shoots right handed
Center - Gretzky - Saw the game 5 minutes ahead of everyone else. Must of had 12 eyes. 8 arms and 4 sticks to be able to pass, dish and set up teammates the way he did. Control the play. Cant not give Center to Gretzky.
Right Wing - Crosby - Able to carry the puck up if needed quickly. Chases/retrieves/maintains the puck from the boards and behimd the net like a god. Made an art out of playing at the goaline from the right. Also not to bad of a passer as well.
Best Line ever? I know I sure would choose this line over any other I can think of.
Lemieux - Gretzky - Crosby
Enough said.
And yes Im a life long Pittsburgher and Pens fan.
Only skill thag could be improved would be the puck dominance of a Jagr, The net front tough play of a Messier? Then you get into the other skills like the shot release and accuracy of a Sakic.
But lets get real. When you think of the skill, winners and who was just the elite of NHL history. You think Gretzky, Lemieux and lately Crosby.
Then a whoooole bunch of other guys that are amazing in their own right. Just not Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby.
I think when you call players the greatest. People should start to take it as a compliment to the people your naming. Not an insult to the people you arent.
Interesting vid man!
Kinda fun watching this right after Ovechkin won everything the year after ^^
Agreed. Kind of but it took Ovechkin, what...13 or 14 years for his first title? It took Sid only four years to win his first title.
I still think Crosby is better than Ovechkin. Crosby has been successful both in the NHL AND international tournaments. I have yet to see Ovechkin win a gold medal, which is probably his next goal, to be honest.
I'm proud of Ovechkin, really, I am.
But don't let this cup win cloud your judgment or go to your head.
As someone had already said, it took ovi 13 to 14 years just to get his first title ... That's ... Bitter sweet?
I mean ... Better late than never but it's still a little iffy and questionable.
It doesn't make him better than Crosby all of a sudden and it definitely doesn't make him the greatest of all times.
Again, proud of Ovi for FINALLY winning the cup .... But he really should have won it sooner if he was THAT great
@@allghilliedup21 It took Ovechkin 13 years, therefore, Crosby is better? You do realize that teams win the Cup not individual players. And after Ovi finally won the Cup, all the "experts" - who in the years past would have had us believe Ovi was a choker - had to come clean on his playoffs stats to show that he always did his part but his team fell short. By the way, speculative but I believe if Crosby had gone without a cup for 7 to 10 years in Pittsburgh, he'd have ditched Pittsburgh for another team. Ovi, on the other hand, stayed with the organization through thick-and-thin and has earned DC the honor of being called a "hockey town".
It's highly possible that Gretzky and Lemieux could score more points in this era rather than the era they played in. In those days they had a two-line pass rule that choke the flow of the game. Who can say how many breakaways (and penalty shots) we might see them have under todays rules. If I were a goalie I would rather see Ovey coming at me than Mario Lemieux, just thinkng about the way Ovey camps the other teams blueline. They might not do as bad as you think.
no one in any era scared a goalie as much as mario on a breakaway.
With the Mario as Crosby's mentor thing. What if Ovechkin had a mentor like that? His most complete game was with Dale Hunter.
Omg....
Mario vs. Wayne in the Finals
Good God. Imagine that!!!
As great as Gretzky was,I saw both play in person.Barring injuries,illnesses,and etc...I would take Super Mario as my first pick!Oh man that playoff loss to the Isles-was a shocker.
Great video. Not good, great. Superbly done. I don’t even necessarily agree, and that’s what makes you so great at, I don’t know what to call it, your job? Is even if I don’t agree with you on something I still see and understand your side. You can’t teach that shit. It’s something that you have and like I said, makes you truly great at what you do. Love this channel thumbs up :)
We all know Wayne had the greatest stats but heres the extra
Wayne was a horrible coach in PHX
Played in the easier conference with the worst goalies
Mario humiliated legendary nhl dmen like Bourque Stevens Leetch & Neidermayer on a nightly basis
Wayne had gambling problems he was literally the Pete Rose of hockey but he suffered no repercussions funny ...
Lemieux saved a franchise and won 2 more cups as an owner
Mario could do what Wayne could but Wayne couldn't do what Mario did
And Lemieux was the much classier guy off the ice
Wayne was the hockey God but Mario was Jesus
Equally great but in different aspects imo
Wayne the anticipation expert Mario the Physical Phenom
Lots of good points ... one thing I came away with is that I think that gretz, Lemieux, Crosby, Orr, and Howe are the best players of all time....who gives a crap on who is 1-5 as they all played in different times where its truly hard to compare apples to apples with so many variables from era to era....but fun to talk about nonetheless.....
Coming from a Penguins fan. After Mario had a decent supporting cast starting 1987 the man would go out each game and top a highlight reel goal or play that you thought the game before that you had seen the highest limit.To bad that when he got on a roll it was short lived. Injuries/Cancer. Sorry to say Sid is no Mario. Sid is the best of his generation.
He's got to be behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Hull.
BTW, a Bruins fan and no Bobby Orr love? what's up with that?
I agree with you as far as best forwards being Gretzky and Mario, but Crosby's stats look identical to another great Penguin. Not Mario... That's ridiculous! I'm talking about Jager: 1733 games 766 goals 1921points. Crosby has 1071 games with 497 goals (early congrats on goal 500) and 864 feeds for 1361 points. Either Crosby is overrated or Jager is underrated. It can't be both. They are like carbon copies.
I would say that if a player from today played back in the 80s or before, they'd probably run a train on the league. This is because fitness science today is so much better than it was back then. You always hear stories about old timers drinking and living pretty rough lives outside the rink back then, nowadays the players like to party, but the level of fitness preparation and science that goes into training a player right now is far more superior and informed than it was back then.
Unless of course if you're Gordie Howe in his prime, who looked like an Adonis with his shirt off, lol.
1.Orr
2.Howe
3.Lemieux
4.Gretzky
5The Rocket
6.Liindstrom
7Forsberg
8Yzerman
9B Hull
10Jagr
11Messier
12Roy
13Hasek
14Beliveau
15.H Richard
16Bossy
17Potvin
18Lafleur
19Crosby
20Malkin
21 Kane
22Ovie
23 Brodeur
24 Dryden
25 Bourque
26Sakic
27Esposito
28Toews
29Keith
30Hossa
Wow update your list
Very hard to compare, since they both played in different eras. But I highly doubt 99, would be able to put up the same numbers in the current game as he did in the 80's and 90's.
Orr dominated the age of hockey when he he played more than anyone In ever saw in the 65 years I followed the NHL. Put 6 Bobby Orr's against 6 Lemieux's or 6 Gretzky's and Orr would come out on top easily....remember he was the best defenseman ever....to.
Where do you put Orr? Top 5?
I would say it's Lemieux and Gretzky, rather than Gretzky and Lemieux
Yzerman needs to be in this conversation.
top 10. ahead of crosby.
Am I the only one to notice crosby seems to be playing more aggressively as he gets older? When he was a kid he played with fear once the target was put on him. If only he had an enforcer he would have played even better its too bad ryan Reaves wasnt better and was drafted with crosby would have been awesome for them both
I get tired of comments that the goalies of Gretzky's era sucked. They didn't suck.
Gordie Howe should be considered the greatest of all time.
Sidney is the best player of his generation. He's playing in a dead puck era. Gordie Howe was playing in a more physical era before the live puck era. Plus he played in the WHA when they had the scores go up.
Gretzky had a better supporting cast than Lemieux. Gordie fought for himself. Eric Lindros could've been the Gordie Howe of the 90s and 2000s had he stayed healthy and stayed in Quebec.
I think you need to revisit this idea. I think Ovechkin is clearly #2 of his generation, the 2 seasons since you did this video, Ovechkin has 100 goals and won a Cup. He has broken Bobby Hull's record for most seasons leading the league in goals.
anyone who says Gretzky is better than Mario or sid is just plain wrong.
Wayne #1 Mario # 2 Sid himself would shy away from any talk of he being the best out of respect to Wayne and Mario. He probably would say something like my focus is getting even better, winning hockey games, being a team leader and winning more Stanley Cups.
That’s where he was at the Centennial classic
About the Wayne story. He might have had a greater expectation. It might have been the 3rd, the game could have been tied, and the coach could be saying get out there Wayne, get us back in front.
Or even if it was hours before a game, and his routine is getting disrupted. He's expected to put up 2 or 3 points every night, and he's missing some sort of warm up or ritual due to this problem.
Shannon, as much as I love your videos, and respect your opinion, you're wrong on this one. Wayne isn't the greatest player. And here's why
1) He didn't play at both ends of the ice, he was just an offensive player, but a great one. Some guy name Bobby Orr put up 100 point season as a defencemen, which was unheard of. And he kept the puck out of the net 1000x better then Gretzky could. Not to mention he played a couple seasons on one knee
2) If you look at PPG Gretzky has 1.92 and Orr has 1.39. You're honestly telling me that if they both played 1000 games and Wayne ended his career with 1920 points, and Bobby with 1390 we would still say Gretzky is better? I find that hard to believe.
3) Lemieux played basically his whole career injured, like you said. But also, he never got the respect that Gretzky did. No one was allowed to hit Wayne, if Lemiex had that same respect, since he was bigger, stronger, and more skilled then Gretzky I would wager he'd put up around 3000 points.
I'll end my argument by saying this Gretzky was the smartest player to ever play the game, Lemieux the most skilled, and Orr the best all around player. Don't get me wrong, Gretzky is one of the greatest ever, but I just think he gets all this praise just because he put up a bunch of points. It's the same reason Crosby is still better than McDavid even though he had less points. Crosby plays at both ends better than McDavid. It's easier to put up 100 points a year when you focus more on the offensive side of the game, but Crosby focuses equally on both ends of the rink.
I never saw Orr play. That's my point. It's different eras and, sure, Orr will go down in history as a player in that conversation, but I can only go by what I saw. In his era, few of the offensive players were expected to play a two way game. That came along later when guys like Yzerman and Francis showed how important that could be. The joke with Bure was that he could go a whole season without meeting his goaltender.
That's true, it's hard to measure players from different eras. I just think that you can't overlook what Orr did on one knee. What do you think of adjusted stats in terms of helping determine who the best is? And also, a bit of tangent, how come Jagr never talks gets talk about in the top 5, like the guys only second in all time points. Is it just that he played a lot more games? Because that didn't affect Howe's standing.
Coleson Lamb It is extremely difficult to compare different eras. In gretzky's era, goalies still hadn't developed. Butterfly wasn't a thing so the goalies were very vulnerable. Same for the Richard, Howe, Orr etc. era. So the only thing that is fair to compare is the greatest player of their era. There is no way to compare players from different eras because the game of hockey is always changing.
Hayden Aronson That's true, but shouldn't it make it more impressive when somebody puts up points in today then back in the 80's? I still think, since Mario came in just as Gretzky was putting up 212 point season and he put up 199 points as a sophomore? I think? Either way they were all legends and it's really splitting hairs, but for my money Bobby Orr was still the best all around player every.
Hayden Aronson except that Orr was ahead of his time and Gretzky and Lemieux the were just great for their era. They dominated in Lemieux's case by physical stature and Gretzky by great playmaking and playing on loaded teams. Orr was a better skater, passer, shooter, defender than anyone else playing at that time. He is absolutely better than Gretzky and Lemieux, remember he retired at 30 and barely played 9 or 10 full seasons and won 7 Norris trophies with a plus minus one year of +150
Everyone underrating Mike Bossy.
Gretzky is the greatest player of all time, however I would say Mario had the greater skill, Wayne was still the better all-around player. 93 Pens were probably the best team to not win a Cup (at least in my lifetime, with a close second to the 2016 Caps or 96 Redwings).
Spot on with Mario being 1b. He def would have gotten 2500 points. So glad I got to watch them play. Mario could skate through you and score and whenever Gretzky was behind the net I'd say here we go again lol.
I'd put Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr at the top.
I don't think Crosby has surpassed Howe yet. Howe didn't just play for a long time; he was a great player for a long time. Crosby doesn't necessarily have to surpass his career totals to be better, but he does need some more elite seasons.
Right now you can put him in a group that includes Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Lidstrom, Hasek and possibly Roy and Jagr and maybe some others. If he's not top five, he's getting pretty close.
No way Crosby is the best player of all time. You could say Malkin or Jake Guentzel outplayed him in this years playoffs. I never had the chance to see Gretzky-Lemieux-Orr live but the film tells another story.
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Gordie Howe
4. Orr
5. Crosby, could see McDavid in this spot one day. Crosby won't drop from the top 6 though
In this generation....my money is on Crosby.....he carries the team
Basically every list is an opinion and that is the beauty of hockey, each generation gets to enjoy a different set of players. There is no definitive top 10, because someone will disagree with that top 10.
#5. Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby.
Super mario. That season you mentioned of 75 points in 44 games is ridiculous consider how much of a cripple he was and his health problems. Also dead puck era
The quickest no I’ve ever had to tell anyone.
Are some people saying Crosby is better than Mario? Seriously?
Please revisit this
I also think Gretzky, as great as he was. He played on an absolutely stacked team. With the salary cap, you can't stack teams like that. Gretzky played with no less than 6-8 all star players. The game is so different, today, it's almost impossible to say. But you put Crosby with 5 more all star players on that team, and make goalies wear those tiny pads, geez, Crosby could have put up 200 point seasons as well. But you never know.
You put Gretzky in the league now, with the instigator rule. Having to play with only a couple of bonafide all stars. It really is impossible to say what would happen. (A, he would have to be alot better skater, (B he would have to deal with being targeted non stop by Kesler types, (C Could he keep up with his defencive assignments and be the same threat offensively?
Who knows, I think he would definitely still be one of the best, are due to his brain still THE best. I wouldn't bet on it though. Almost impossible to say. But if you look at sports that don't really change as much as Hockey over time. You can see, that every generation seems to get better, and better, breaking records of the previous generation...
You don't know that about Crosby. Not having Mario is a hypothetical thing. It never happened so you don't know what would of happened.all you know is what happened.
Crosby is the goat
Bobby Orr....was in a league of his own....then Lemieux....then Gretzky
If you you think Crosby is a whiner you have never seen Gretzky in a playoff game. The biggest whiner ever. And someone who mostly took care of himself. A lot of people called him the greedy one.
It goes Bobby Orr Mario Lemieux Dominik Hašek Grodie Howe Wayne Gretzky Sidney Crosby Evgeni Malkin Jaromír Jágr Alexander Ovechkin Martin Brodeur
did Gretzky have a stacked team because it was pre salary cap? not trolling just wondering
+eelnikar They were young, talented and underpaid.
Wayne is the goat
greatest canadian, russian, swede, finn, czech & american? in your opinion and is there someone out there who could challenge their post.
best russian probably never played here. if we ignore kharlamov and tretiak and only pick from NHLers, it's probably ovi at this point but malkin is close. some idiot will pop in and say datsyuk, i'm sure, but no.
can - lemieux
swe - lidstrom
fin - selanne
cze - jagr
usa - modano
Mario is 1 for me. Orr 2. Gretzky 3. Crosby 4.
So, You asked for an opinion, and i will give it.
For me, Crosby is the greatest of all time. Why? Olimympic games. I know there isn't straight answer which is more important in hockey (stanley or Olympics), but internationally thinking, it's Olympics (i know USA with NHL is always the center of the world, but let me explain). I can give an analogy in football, wich i don't care about, but it is called the ''King of sports' and the only game i whach with real interest is the Olympic finals. And i strongly believe that this is true for most of the world that don't care about hockey. And, if you can be the best in either NHL, Olympic games and World championship for over a decade (as of now), you are probably the best player in the history of Hockey.
BUT, yes, it is only my point of view and i still would give Gretzky the first place if we look at player skills and mentality and do not argue about the character and worldvide impact.
aside from the golden goal, crosby was rather pedestrian in the 2010 games. there were many players better than him in that tournament. the 2014 games was the carey price show. on your logic, joe sakic should be the GOAT for what he did in the 2002 games. or hasek for 1998. your argument is ridiculous and invalid.
Totally agree that it's gretzky and Mario and that's because they were so much better than anyone else...Crosby has been the best for the last 10 years but there's always been some one close....bit baffled by the Kane and towes talk tho as good as they have been there not close overall
heelloo, everybody sleeping on Forsberg.
1a and 1b is Gretzky and Orr
Crosby is not even close to the greatest. The true greats were all on a completely different playing field than the others. Crosby is always near or at the top in points but other players are huddled closely to him. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr were all light years ahead of their peers.
Sorry. Crosby being mentioned as greatest all time? Not a chance.
Totally agree. Lemieux could have been the greatest of all time without his injuries. Before he came out of retirement he had the best points per game average of ANY player in the history of the NHL.
Lemieux could have been the best.
Unfair comparison. Nearly every NHLer today would be a superstar when Gretzky played.
Mario or Bobby Orr were the greatest of all time for me.
Although he's never in the same conversations, Malkin is a much more talented player but that doesn't always equate to points at the end of the season. Although Malkin did have 1 more point than Crosby in the 2017 playoffs. Malkin destroyed Columbus (a team that should have given the Pens a lot of problems) in the first round but Crosby finished the playoffs stronger.
The Hockey Guy Do u think that McDavid will be better than Crosby? Me personal i believe so in years to come as he get more NHL experience.
if he wins 3 more cups he's goat, also crosby has played in a league where gpg has been between 2.7 and 2.9, gretzky's era the gpg averaged between 3.7 and 4.0.....
I don’t think he’s winning 3 more that’s a bit much
Sidney Crosby deserves to be GOAT, next to Gordie Howe (RIP), Bobby Orr, Guy Lafleur, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy!
Nobody really thinks Crosby is the greatest of all time. It give the media something to talk about, so they can fill air time, because that's how they get paid. Just like you.
Can you imagine how many points Mario would have if he was able to play as long as Jagr? That would have been something grand to see.
I think when you look at deciding who is the greatest of all time, you should also factor in health. Lemieux fell a little short in that aspect. Gretzky had dominated across more measurable and relevant factors than Lemieux by a just a hair. Gretzky may not have been the best in all factors being considered but he was the best across the greatest set of factors. I love Wayne and Mario equally. Canada Cup ‘87 forever!!!
Gretzky and Lemieux also crushed my teams LOL! Winnipeg iced some very good teams in the shadows of the mighty Oilers. Only to fall flat on several instances.
No they shouldn't have won 3 in a row in the early 90s. In 91-92 they were down 3-1 in the first round to the Caps but came back and won. Can't have it both ways that it was as it should be that they beat the Caps under those circumstances but then they should have beaten the Islanders.
Crosby is by far the greatest in the last 15 years. He has the hardware and accolades to back it up. Mcdavid might take his place sometime but he has a long way to go. Superstars arent perfect but they need to sell the game and keep it exciting. Mcdavid..matthews to name a few are great for the game but i love sid the kid
Thats impossible no one can do that
It is impossible to determine . I remember Bobby Orr and he was the greatest player I ever saw.
I agree that Gretzky and Lemieux are 1 and 2. Crosby is definitely above Messier though.
What's the dead puck ara?
+Nathan Hall After 1994, scoring dropped dramatically. Dead puck refers to the lack of goals.
NJ's 1st cup to the lockout, basically.
I love how no one, NO ONE puts goalies in their TOP 5! Roy should be up there ( and Im not even a Roy fan), no one else has 3 smythe Gretzky, nope, Lemieux nope, Crosby NOPE. Sure Crosby could surpass Roy, but no one ever thinks about the guy at the bottom line.
GeoWing2 goalie are an entire different class of player and are judged completely different then players
i'd consider roy or hasek in the top 10, but not top 5.