VW ID4 GTX battery capacity test when brand new
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
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I’d be interested in seeing new car battery capacity tests with other makes and models to see if this is just an issue with VW EVs or multiple other EVs as well. Also further testing on different MEB vehicles in different conditions would help us understand better.
in Germany the new 210kW motor of the ID.7 is now available for ID.4/5 and Enyaq. GTX and Enyag RS have 250kW now
Fits my experience woth my Tesla Model 3 LR. i tested it right after receiving it back in December 2021 and I got 77.3kWh instead of the official 78.8kWh, so pretty much 2% less. My assumption is that Tesla has a hidden extra Buffer of 1.5kWh beyond the 3.5kWh that is always there and known. Showed that in a video when I did a 40000km degradation check.
The LG battery capacity should go up a bit after use. There’s a lot of written on this topic.
Now you know what's left in the batterie after the Tesla says 0 km left.
It's the same on diesel cars, if it says 0 km left you can fuel 50 liter into a 55 liter tank, it means you can ride easy 30 km after the car says 0 km left here too...
@@derandiheissst nah that is different. at 0% a Tesla has 3.5 kWh left as iron reserve. that is know. the 1.5kWh are a different thing
@@tesla-spectre The iron reserve in a Tesla is not a fixed amount of kWh, it's always 4.5% of your current max nominal capacity.
@@Tschacki_Quacki yeah sorry I always use the 3.5 as indication. but your aree right. still, that dows not explain the 1.5 kWh that were already gone when it was new and did not come back :)
Cant wait to see more videos on the GTX as I`m about to buy one 2nd hand.
77 kWh * 0,96 = 73,920. ID.4 has a buffer at the top and at the bottom, so from the "simple net" 77 kWh you get another deduction of 4%, so you get a "double net" of less than 74 kWh.
I think it's more or less OK to deduct the bottom buffer as you can use it if you accidentally run the car below the indicated zero.
Totally not OK to deduct the top buffer. That's never accessible. If the car claims a "usable" 77 kWh then it must be accessible in normal use.
Seems to me that this car should be going back to VW.
@@londonwestman1 Then all MEB cars should go back because the all have that. But what do you expect from VW? Do you think that they all of a sudden changed?
@@londonwestman1 Have the same problem with my car Its a 55kwh edition. Net use is 52kwh,, When after one year of use, I can only log 44.5kwn to use,, This is normal to loose 15% ... This is from VAG. So no warranty
@@londonwestman1top buffer WILL be ‘’accessible’ in the long run. Not in the form of direct drivable range, but in some form of compensation as chemistry degrades this extra will make up for capacity lost … is a ‘buffer’ for the future…
Hi Bjørn, thank for the informative video. Wasn't it once the idea that most of the degradation occurs in the first 6 months due to a layer forming on the battery electrodes? But then I heard that this should be taken into account by the car manufacturer when estimating the range of said car. My theory is that maybe some manufacturers don't, what do you think or was it just a software update hiding some capacity as you already mentioned?
I got my Enyaq coupe rs a week ago and I measured 74kwh available.
When adding 6,8% (from your Car Scanner) below zero is about 5 kWh. Pretty close to 77 kWh. Top buffer is about 5% (100% is 95% real). Pretty close to the 82 gross capacity.
I have measured 2.7 kWh below 0 %, not 5 kWh.
Car scanner reports 73600 as max capacity in mine. Adding 2700 gives 76300 net capacity. Pretty good for a car with 62000 km.
Bjorn, why don't you use the "maximum energy content of the traction battery" info to obtain maximum battery capacity?
3k km on my ID.4 Pro 4motion picked it up in September 2023 and I managed to charge it to 71.6kw = 100%
Am I missing something? Maybe vw just basically lying about capacity, it's not like there not known for stretching the truth.
Are we working up to a VW Batterygate fiasco like dieselgate?
I doubt that, I think more testing is needed on more MEB vehicles in more conditions to prove anything. Also this test needs to be done in other new vehicles from other brands to cross reference, other vehicles from other brands might experience something similar, this might just be a characteristic of multiple EVs even outside of VW.
Even if VW is adding more buffers than initially claimed or something along those lines, at least their vehicles usually get the range they claim to get, that’s the more important part and some brands like Tesla fall short with this.
I love that extra content! Each time a nice surprise.
What tool you are using on your Phone?
I would think usable battery capacity would include the energy available after you hit 0%.
My id3 tour 5 has 73. Something also
I believe this is not degradation but another buffer.
Around 10 kwh buffer in the id3 tour 5 which is a pain in the ass because i paid for 82 kwh and can only use 73.
I must test it again after 2 years and 65,000 kms
The state-of-charge of any kind of battery is notoriously difficult to measure, and therefore any information about the battery's capacity is not likely to be very reliable. The problem is that when you put energy into a battery, you can't really tell how much of that energy is actually charging the battery, and how much just being dissipated as heat. When energy is being dissipated as heat, that raises the temperature of the battery, so you can improve your state-of-charge calculations by carefully measuring the temperature of the battery and calculating how much energy would raise the temperature a certain amount. But you still don't have an accurate measurement, because you also have to factor in the effects of the ambient temperature.
I just bought an ID buzz. I just checked the battery with car scanner and total battery energy is 69100wh and soc is 88,8 %. So If I calculate correctly it is 77815wh at 100%. So I must be lucky then?? Battery temperature was 22 degrees Celsius
A Hyundai Ioniq 5 taxi at Romerike has clocked 230 000 km with mostly rapid charging to 100% if possible and according to Hyundai there is insignificant degradation on the battery. You should test that one. He is now buying a new HI5.
According to Hyundai…
That is why the most honest, reliable person in the EV World should test the car. @@hansson30
Hyundai has a hidden top buffer that hides degradation. Same on my Ioniq EV 2017.
@bjornnyland
Have you checked the two values: Soc Display vs. SoC BMS?
So the Battery management does not allow charging to 100% SoC BMS, it stops at 96% SoC BMS (this relates to 100% SoC Display).
And also, the carScanner does indeed show 0 Wh energy content at 0% SoC display.
This cannot be true, as the vehicle can still move at 0% SoC and has an energy reserve of 3-4 kWh.
Another hint:
For your calculation of the battery capacity you take into account the driven distance and the consumption (180 Wh/km) taken from the bordcomputer.
If the computer calculates too optimistic (and hides some consumption), then you would also get a higher battery capacity out of your calculation...
I can charge 100%..no problem.
@@hanslundstrom245 Sorry, I was not clear in my comment:
100% SoC display is, when the car does not allow charging any more. This charging state is displayed in the CarScanner of Byorn with "96% SoC BMS". So: BMS would allow last 4%.
@@andyhoenig7900 Todays news in Germany. The German test board.did a long run test under 3 years. 100k km ..and lost only 7% !
Battery 82kwh /net 77kwh..MEB platform Id3.
They made Calculation from real useable 74kwh (fr New)
Bjørn love your videos! What OBD dongle are you using for MEB platform cars?
He actually did a video on that. It's Obd Link. Look for it in his videos
@@guykedem54 Thank you 👍👍
Ok with CarScanner its free to download,
I wonder how the car calculates or estimates how much energy is currently left in the battery.
What app are you using to measure?
Car scanner
I think what is happening is that VW is lying and is giving you the net value including the lower and upper capacity (which is always empty)
So is giving gross capacity as design capacity
Net capacity as gross capacity
And to find de real net capacity you have to subtract lower and upper buffers.
It’s my theory, I have a Born
I had id4 gtx and it was very thirsty when weather got colder. Basically had to charge every or every second night. There is something weird with these. My current MY LR 2023 consumes 20 % less.
Meb platform is inefficient in cold
The declared battery capacity is measured at 22.5 C degrees, in this video you are driving at 3 C so there is no chance to have declared capacity even with brand new battery. If you want to make degradation tests please test the cars at 20C-25C temperatures.
I own an id3 and degradation on id cars is very high. Mine has 12% after 60000 km. Bjorn is giving very useful information with these videos!
@@dt-lb6ihyou'd think that Teslabjørn is a tesna fanboy given his name, but he is legitimately one of the most objective reviewers on this site. The numbers do the talking.
Incorrect. Ambient temperature is irrelevant.
Battery is at 20 degrees. So the result is correct.
@@jelleverhagen909312% it's way too much. Of course it can stop and just stuck on it. Because i saw ID 4 for sale with 184000 km and seller says it's 84.9 % left
does this car have a heat pump?
Yes
9:00 the glossy black plastic trend needs to die quickly
your daughters is a carbon copy of you, God bless you.
Bjorn - you are not alone about articles appearing in the UK Sun newspaper. Find Kilowatt half hour /episode 8. Might be someone in the UK who will add your misrepresentation and misuse of your CZcams video. Worth contacting Electrofying
I had 2 times the „82“kWh battery 1 Skoda Enyaq 80 and one VW ID.3 Pro S both never got more than 73kWh out from 100%-0% you can drive a little below 0% to get to around 76-77kWh but man that’s cheating the top buffer of 5kWh is already big.. i was so disappointed thanks Tesla never go back from them
For clarification i tried 3 VW ID.3 over 1 year 1 Skoda Enyaq for 6 months and 7 Tesla (4 Model 3 and 3 Model Y) in the last 3 years
Well. It's still a better version of ID.4
Family content is way more important! 10% SoC... who cares? Baby and wifey is life! But please more laughing... more jokes...! Hard life, isn`t it?! :D Always love to watch! Best regards, from a Dacia Spring EV user from Romania. :)
My Tesla M3 have 74,6 kWh capacity left after 90000 kilometers.
Depending how old your car is that is an awesome value. The capacity of the model 3 changed at least three time.
@@Gnubbelhurz it’s a late 2021, LGM50 battery. It will be interesting to see the degradation on the ID cars.
@@hansson30 ah OK. So there is a chance that you got the Panasonic with 82kWh.
@@Gnubbelhurz No it’s the LG. E5LD
Wasn't the LG long range 84 and the Panasonic 82? Something was different between the two. I have an earlier EU 2019 Model 3 from Fremont with the 74kW. I think there was around 69 useable but not sure if that was before or after the October 2019 software update that improved the motor power and changed the buffer.
This opens up a whole new different can of works.
Is VW really offering the battery size they claim. Are there installed all the bateries they make the buyers pay, or do they cheat the customer by installing less batteries.
Because as a customer you are forced to believe them at face value, on their word. (you can't check physically)
And VW (VAG group) has been caught in the past cheating, so is not a conspiracy theory to doubt them being honest with what they sell.
Someone needs to open up the battery and count by hand and then verify each individual cell.
We know that if you buy from aliexpress wish amazon, etc, some generic chinese 18650 (or whatever battery) the seller will claim 3500mAh but when measured they will have a lot less.
So it would not be far fetched for a cheating company like VAG, to do similar things.
If they offer 1% less battery, that is 1% they don't pay as a cost, that is 1% profit for them though defrauding the customer. Profit is profit in the corporate eyes.
Or maybe the company selling the cells to VAG.
I will never trust VW.
I have an ID.4 First edition (77kWh) with 107k km in 2 and a half years and currently I have only 54kWh left
Not good😂
So the warranty should apply in thos case...
To the workshop with you, that car has one or more defekt battery cells. A recall is active in Europe for those.
As above, there is a high voltage battery module check recall in place for early cars.
Not good for a car that cost a fortune of money
On the new Samsung phones actual capacity is 10% lower than declared minimum capacity - their answer was like.. well everyone cheats these days dont expect to get 128gb memory in 128gb memory card..
You meant 128 GB, not 128 gb. Anyway, disk size can be tricky, because some devices calculate with 1024 per a unit, but others calculate with size of 1000 per unit. The correct one of 1024 (the closest number to 1000 in binary). This makes your 10% difference.
Disc sizes are different, the partition and indexing information, look up tables, etc can affect capacity.
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This seems not to be good enough from VW. They quote 77 kWh usable and you should be able to access that much.
I suppose it's OK to hide a bottom buffer of maybe 2% or 1.5 kWh. That bit of battery IS usable if you accidentally go below the indicated zero.. That would mean you would get 75.5 kWh on your test.
But the top buffer is permanently hidden - I guess until it's used to hide later battery degradation. But you can't get to it in normal use so it shouldn't be quoted as usable.
I think this car needs to go back to VW until can meet its spec. And if this is actually a problem common to many MEB cars, it might soon be time for another class action, or the kind of academic research that basically repeats your test but can also be the basis for a class action.
If the sell it for 30.000 euros is good not higher.
#Batterygate
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