How Strong is CSA Concrete? - Deflection Test Lightweight Garden Box Panels
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2020
- I test the deflection resistance of CSA concrete garden box panels under a point load. These panels link together to make long lasting rot-proof garden boxes. I test 1 lightweight panel made from CSA Mortar Mix. These panels were made in Part 4 of my Garden Box series. I load the panels with weight until their breaking point.
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#concrete #gardening #CSAconcrete - Jak na to + styl
I now have molds ready-to-go here: manabouttools.com/product-category/abs-plastic-molds/
It's been a rough few months for our family so I appreciate your patience as I haven't posted a video in a while. I'm sure a lot of you are suffering in these trying times as well. I can't thank you all enough for the support my channel has received. I thought it fitting to publish this short video on Mother's Day.
Sorry for your loss friend.
Sorry for your loss. Thank you for the video.
I know you have tried many materials for reducing the weight of the panels. Do you have any plans to try styrofoam beads? It seems like a good way to keep them out of a landfill.
Sorry about your loss. Love your common sense approach to products and testing...very helpful. Have you thought about making a summary document with all the raised bed panels, components, weights and materials to help us out here? That would likely help many of us decide on which plan to purchase too. Thanks!
Sorry for your loss. My mother too was born October 5, 1931. She passed in June 2018. God Bless you.
I liked the fact you had a memory placed at the end of your video. I respect that a lot
Thank you Marilyn for putting up with him taking one of the sides of the garden beds away.
Thank you for the trimmer test. Now, just still waiting to see when reinforcing wire under tension is used.
First - very sorry for your loss.
Second - many thanks for your thoroughness in testing all of the iterations of your design. This test sold me on the CSA thin panels. They should easily withstand the pressures of a raised garden bed - AND you have proven that they just shrug off the weed eater. Guess I have to start building the forms now. Great job, great design and great videos! Thanks.
I’m very sorry for your loss and I’m right there with you. Lost my oldest brother right before Christmas and my Dad a few weeks later... Way too many losses and many of them could have been avoided...
Anyway, I am finding your videos to be a welcome, interesting, educational, and very positive distraction. And for that, I thank you.
Don't need to handle much load if you keep it to garden box panels. I love your experimentation. I couldn't afford to do all of these tests myself, so I have to watch you! Aww - sad ending. Thank you for all the neat ideas - and condolences on the passing of your Mom.
Sorry for your loss. Love your videos. Take heart, better times are ahead.
Thank you for the update and break test on the CSA panel. So sorry to hear of you loss. Your mother did an excellent job raising her son. I'm sure she is smiling and proud.
I'm really attracted to the thin CSA panels. The hog wire might add some tensile strength, or perhaps some light gauge rebar. But for your displayed garden bed they seem perfect!
Thank you for all you do here, but most especially for your work at your chosen occupation. I'm sure the current situation is more than enough pain, and yet it keeps coming and seems like it will never end. It might not ever go back to the way it was, but I am positive there will be many more good days to come. I am so sorry for the loss of your Mother.
Words matter, I concur better times are on the way. Just as the sun rises to a new day. I also concur with your assessment of the CSM. I am going tp do this as soon as possible, I am thankful for the conditions that provided an opportunity to find this channel.
I love your channel for what you do for all of us. I am going tp do this (make CSM panels to your design) as soon as possible, I am thankful for the conditions that provided an opportunity to find this channel.
Thank you!
My condolences to you and your family and thanks for keeping us all entertained
Thank you for this series. When I finally get around to making my raised beds, I will be looking at your designs. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for your thoughtful designs. Just purchased the plans. It satisfies my need to aesthetics, durability, utility and cost!
oh that breaks my heart. but what you are doing is very helpful still. Thanks for the series of this topic. I would be following more of your experiments on durability. I hope you can discover the most durable mix and approach for a house call panel, soon too! kudos!!!
Our condolences! Thanks for your efforts with the garden box panels!
Very impressive. Way strong enough for your application.
Amazing video and work quality! I can't stop watching. should have started this years ago!
Wow, thanks!
My deepest condolences for your loss.
Thank you! 🙏
Great videos Kent. I used your plans for garden panels with a little modification to make them thicker (3 inches) as I intend to use them for a compost bin that I can run my tractor front loader into to turn it over and collect. My thinking is the thicker slab will hold up against the pressure. I also added some cheap wooden letters to one form for a little customization. Turned out great! Thanks again for the videos.
Great idea!
would love to see the same test on a panel without any wire reinforcement
Really enjoying your videos and I’m using the info you have put forward. May even try my hand at some counter tops.
Thanks!!
Got my plans last week; built the forms; pouring today - great timing w/ this video! Even though the test showed relatively low tensile strength I plan on making my panels without the wire; I will use the glass fiber though. I think the panel thickness of 1.5" eliminates the possibility of regular rebar, and I just can't imagine real-life loading that requires extensive tensile strength. Typical stresses will include the string trimmer and possibly corner chipping if whacked by a tool. And you know, the failing point with side stresses will probably be the corner pins, right? They're only a few inches in the ground. Kent - as a fellow homesteader let me emphasize that your design is absolutely superior to anything I've seen ... thank for sharing your work. Ideas for follow-up: I've already done this for myself, but maybe you could share "recipes" by weight/measure for each size of panel; I'll be weighing out my batches in increments a bit more or less than a 55-lb bag. Another thing I'm interested in is your irrigation system ... I see what look to be poly risers at the corner of your beds. Do these feed a header with drip tape?
I can see the advantages in using the CSA concrete with regard to lightness and the finish was excellent. But could you do a cost comparison please .....? It seems here in the UK CSA mix is quite a lot more money so it pushes the unit cost of making the panels up considerably. Important if you are going to sell them. Great videos Kent, I really appreciate your professional approach to making them. I hope all is well with you and your family. America and the UK are both getting really battered by the pandemic. Trying times.
good stuff can’t wait to try
Well, this looks great! I would keep the perlite/tick reinforcement in mind. Raised beds are definitely worth it, its aesthetic and its handy because you dont have to bend down as far to reach into the bed.
Greetings,
Jeff
I have really enjoyed this series you made. Very inspirational, thank you. Did you ever try any with 3/8 rebar?
( 4:45 ) non-life-depending application of the panels aford you to simply repair them with CSA concrete. As a matter of fact quick, quality and strong repairs are one of major uses of the CSA concrete. Put the parts side by side on plastic sheets, apply plenty of water to the crack(s) and use the prepared CSA concrete wet mix as if it is glue.
When loaded from the back it will be the front of the panel that is under the most tension, and also where there is the least material due to the depression in the middle. Adding some wire mesh in the top and bottom sections of the front may do more than adding a complete mesh at the back for holding material behind it.
Can you make a video just ranking them from best to worst, easiest to hardest, toughest to weakest? Like some visual charts or something to help show all the data you collected?
The bending moment is maximum in the middle of the span. At the pins it's zero and the material will fail in shear. Since you're not really using a point load or line load you get the failure crack in the middle of the span first and then you get the two secondary cracks at the edges of the load platform board when the two split halves touch the ground and the downward force is again applied as an impulse load at the edges of the board. If you had contrived a true point load (or line load in this case) the secondary cracks would not have occurred as the load would have only been applied once. Testing is fun!
Yes! I totally agree with your points here.
I'm sorry about Miss Mary.
Don, Georgia U.S.
Sorry to hear about your recent loss.
🙏
I guess CSA is the way to go so far, with better wire mesh inside. Thank you for doing this test.
I'm a little too into this. Great video/edit.
Thanks!
Очень приятно смотреть на Вашу работу! Продолжайте в том же духе!
Appreciate the thoroughness. I am more likely to load these standing up on the thin edge but then they are supported by the ground. So as long as the rebar corner doesn't twist out of there somehow and allow it to buckle in the middle outwards, we're good to go. Did you say how much each panel weighs?
My wife loves these panels. I"ll be making some for her soon. Your reenforcemen wire looks to be located along the nuetral axis of the panel. It does not provide any restistance to tensil loads in that locaton. A tubbular wire reenforcement at the thicker top and bottom areas would be more effective.
@Jerry To lean on your expertise here. I am thinking about making some panels similar to this (even thinner) and embedding carbon fiber tubes for more strength. 1) do you think carbon fiber tubes are a good item to embed? 2) at what position would you locate them to maximize tensile strength?
My Sincerest Condolences to You and Your Family.
Your experiments are really good. Improvement is always about finding the cracks in something and then engineering them out. (excuse the pun) Have you considered mixing your materials so that the most durable material in where the line trimmer hits and the lighter material throughout the rest of the panel? Also, making two full length ridges on the inside of the panel and use a thicker rod along the length. This will increase rigidity with minimal overall thickness of the panel. Good luck. Stay safe and well :)
Very interesting series. I am about to build a house and some outbuildings. I have been following because I am interested in using a post and beam construction methon and plan to use air Crete blocks as the infill.
I plan to use blocks 2ft long, 1 foot wide and 1 ft high. I am just wondering what the compressive strength might be? Tensile strength is one thing but virical load bearing test would be of interest. I wonder would you mind testing the compressive strength of one of your panels as if it was to be used laying down and supporting 20 feet of aircrete panels above it.
The James Hardie of garden boxes... or might you try fireproof siding next?
Sorry for the loss of your mother.
Love the design of these. My question is do you have to wait the 4 weeks after you cast them to use them? I heard you say they are strongest after that and that they need to stay wet. But could I cast them use them and just wet them down daily for a month? I'm wanting to build some beds for blueberries but don't want to wait a month to be able to use them. Thanks.
In your search for lightness, have you looked into or considered using the Ferro-Cement technique with the CSA concrete? I suspect there are huge weight/material savings.
First, my condolences on your loss. We are of an age where this aspect of the cycle of life becomes more frequent. It is important to celebrate and remember all of the good times, but this doesn't make it any easier. I've watched some of your videos and I am right now putting together my plans for making concrete planter boxes and you are 100% of my inspiration in this project. Can you tell me how much weight brought the standard portland cement panels you built to failure ?
Thanks you very much! I wasn't able to break a standard portland based panel with all the weight I could apply by hand.
Have you thought about making the panel from roman concrete and also making them a uniform thickness
Thanks for the video!. I watch your tests with great interest. So the best for tensions would be 2 meshes, but if you were to choose the mixture to achieve lightest panels that would also resist a hammer what kind of mixture would it be?
I'm font of the Perlite or Vermiculite blends for lightness and durability.
When doing structural testing, one needs to give a good amount of time between load changes, to show that it isn't slowly failing from a lower weight. In the above case it won't be too much difference though. Just yesterday I was breaking terracotta bricks for the garden in a similar fashion, spanning and striking with the back corner of an axe.
Nice tough at the end!! Mothers stay in our hearts forever.
As I recall: Isn't the CSA "cement-all" mix you used actually mortar (with sand)? That would explain the better whacking resistance. The CSA pure cement is over $50 for 55 lb, unfortunately. Either way, the material has a very nice ring to it.
What if you add aggregate when you add the hog panel? Or just have aggregate on the half facing the inside of the garden bed?
Sorry for your loss, curious if you plan on doing a thin version with the perlite and CSA?
Thanks. I don't think I'll be doing any more concrete formulas for these panels.
I've been following your efforts with great interest and am trying to figure out whether it is possible to improve on your CSA recipe in terms of costs whilst keeping ythe curing process short. In my neck of the woods, a box of 96 x 48 x 16 inches comes EUR 113 using your recipe. Maybe you could beat me to it? I think the way to go may be to go with Portland cement i.c.w. a polymer such Buddy Rhodes™ Powdered Polymer 1210 Dry or Forton VF-774; a typical GFRC recipe.
Seems like the vermiculite and perlite versions were the best combination of strength vs weight. What was the cost difference between those two?
Great series. I have some engineering comments if you are interested in improving the strength of them to resist the freeze/thaw cycle as you stated. For a beam loaded along it's weak axis (which is how the freezing of the flower bed would load it), it's important that that beam be designed so as not to reduce the moment of inertia in this axis more than necessary. Namely, you should consider getting rid of the the decorative inset (or at least reducing it's depth). When the beam is loaded in this way, the top face of the beam would be in compression (good for concrete) and bottom face of the beam will be in tension. Of course concrete has little tensile strength so the bottom face is were the steel reinforcing needs to be placed. Unfortunately the steel cannot be located as close to the bottom face as it could because of this decorative inset. This is very important because the beam's resistance to bending, it's moment of inertial, is related to the distance that this steel reinforcing is from the neutral axis of the beam squared (see parallel axis theorem). So moving the steel closer to the edges of the beam, even if by a small amount, is the most effective way to improve it's strength. Of course making the outside of the garden box look like a flat slab isn't too attractive but there are perhaps other ways to improve the look. Reducing the depth of the inset would help, and so would increasing the overall thickness. I saw a thicker design in a previous video and that would help obviously. I think some combination of these changes could produce a strong yet still attractive and lightweight box. One more thing, using wire mesh may be convenient but I think simple pieces of rebar (perhaps 2 or 4 pieces) would be more effective. This is evident from watching how your tests are failing. Once the concrete is cracked and it starts sagging, it's primarily the wire mesh keeping it from failing at this point. This is why you see this brittle behavior (cracking) followed by ductile (slow sagging). This is also why 2 sheets of wire mesh are stronger - ie, your wire mesh isn't strong enough. A heavier mesh might help but I prefer the idea of using rebar. Good job keeping your mix as dry as possible too. Cheers.
Excellent advice. Glad I read down this far. I'm trying to come up with an attractive, sturdy concrete barrier for my beautiful, but spreading, bambo. (FYI - ALWAYS get CLUMPING bamboo, NOT the spreading species.)
Bamboo is sorely misunderstood… Bamboo is incredibly easy to kill and control. My favorites are the giant bamboos but there are several smaller ornamentals that are dear to my heart as well… variegated leaves, black stalks, etc… Clumping is ok for borders and screens where you will never walk, the creeping bamboos are more open, and I tend to like them better.
In the spring, when the new shoots sprout, simply snap off anything you don’t want and it will not grow back (unless a new root grows into that space). If you cut down a bamboo, and simply step on any new shoots, the entire plant will die within a couple years.
North America has a couple hundred native varieties of bamboo, and hardly any of them are left (and they were all extremely easy to kill)… Any plant that can’t photosynthesize, will die… Mint varieties can be difficult to get rid of until you realize that mowing them with a lawn mover for a couple years completely kills them.
If you put bamboo next to hardscapes like concrete sidewalks, etc… A root containment barrier can be a good idea… Bamboo cannot grow in water, so water is a containment for bamboo… A lot of people think lucky bamboo is a bamboo and it is not… It’s a water plant that only resembles bamboo… I plant bamboo without any root containment, and have zero issues controlling it (and it takes very little effort to do so)…
There are some good videos on CZcams about bamboo… Look them up and learn about bamboo… It’s an incredible plant that has a ton of great uses and it can be stunningly beautiful… Many varieties have edible shoots that are very mild and slightly sweet…
Giant bamboo averages 150 ft / 50 meters, it makes excellent fencing and lumber, is very rot resistant, and useful in many ways (it’s also beautiful and delicious).
Great from France maybe doing one day precast wall
Good idea!
MaT.... could you PLEASE do a test on the strength of CSA and CSA Aircrete while using carbon fiber tubes/rods imbeded. You can easily get some from any archery store (arrow shafts) and they might even have some damaged ones they could give you for free
I'm about to start building my forms, but I do have a question.
CSA concrete has a compressive strength of 6500psi. Sakrete Maximizer has a 5500psi compressive strength. The Sakrete Maximizer costs less and is probably lighter. Have you tried using Sakrete Maximizer to build the thinner light weight boxes?
can you stack this for a taller garden bed?
So sorry for your loss. How do you think a 72" panel would hold up? It would be one batch of the mix. I am looking at 12'x4' beds 3 panels high. Just interested in your thoughts before attempting it.
Thanks! Long panels become very heavy and more challenging to level and set in place.
Retry that test with the panel facing the other way... in your test the rebar is at top when it should be at bottom I betcha you could double that load! Concrete beams are strongest when the rebar is in tension ie at the bottom
I am real curious if this system could be adapted to a short retaining wall solution. Maybe with some 3/8 rebar or the hog panels? Any thoughts?
That's possible but, the CSA concrete is more expensive than a regular bag of readymix.
any idea for the total cost for CSA concrete ? for example: 4x8 ft bed
What do you figure your cost is per panel ? From 2' up to 4'
Love your boxes. 285 lb is strong enough for its prupose. You could even stack the three high and it should still be strong enough for a much taller garden box.
Thanks! And I agree. Plenty strong.
Is there a commercial supplier for csa concrete in the US?
I wouldn't want to use the steel reinforcement, there isn't adequate cover to prevent it from rusting and spalling the concrete within 10 years or so. I'm more concerned with longevity than strength or weight, so I'd chose the thick Portland variation with fiber only. Perhaps with heavy fishing net as a reinforcing mesh that won't rust.
I think plain old Portland cement will be adequate because I have some garden beds made with 24"x24"x2" pavers half buried and mortared together on the edges. I routinely walk on them and pivot the nose of the wheelbarrow on them when dumping compost. None have broken yet (I forget when we placed them, but I know they were there in 2012). I believe they are made with a very dry concrete mix which is compressed into the molds.
Hello. I have a CZcams idea for you. What is the acoustic properties of Aircrete or other. This may be interesting to those that have a busy road next to them, and a fun project.
I wonder if that broken panel could be repaired with urethane glue?
Yes. Glue, clamp it, and let the glue testing commence.
Can you please share the product name of this csa concrete?
Are these panels at all stack-able to have a deeper above ground bed?
In other videos, the author indicates that they are stackable. You just will need to cut longer connection pins.
R.I.P. momma Mary.
Nice! Inquiring minds wanted to know.
What is the thickness? Is it 2 1/2 inches?
Yes
Did you replace it or fix it with epoxy? :-)
Will replace it.
What CSA abbreviation for?
Calcium Aluminum Sulfate
Appreciate the effort & testing but I don't think this type of test represents the most common failure point for this design. I believe the most common failure point would be rapid general surrounding changes like extreme temperature & moisture changes.
I would agree that temperature and moisture changes may be a bigger concern for the other lightweight concrete formulas that use perlite, vermiculite, or foam cement, but I think that the CSA formula used for the beds presented here would experience very little degradation due to temperature and moisture.
I agree. The CSA is very non-permeable.
MAN about TOOLS I add xypex water proofing compound to many of my concrete formulas. Usually about 1-2% of C. This adds a considerable amount of water resistance to the concrete. No notable change in workability, colour etc. either.
Not sure why you needed to do this experiment? Surely the lateral pressure from soil within the box is way less than 285 lbs anyway. Curious why you might anticipate the need to mitigate against failure in terms of an ordinary growing bed application?
Think of garden beds used as security for vehicle intrusion.
Great video! Clean, simple and informative. CSA would not be my first choice but it proves to be plenty durable for the application. Yes, your wife is going to kill you. I caught my breath a little when you removed it from a bed with new, sprouting plants! My condolences for your loss. I lost mine not too long ago also. She was a tough bird. They don't make 'em like they did back then anymore. The greatest generation.........
They sure were. There's a lot of Jell-o out there now. That generation was as tested as good steel. Mom 1922-2018. Miss you, Mom.
285 lbs at a single point is more than plenty strong for that application. Over 3 feet you’ll never get that much load
If it’s used for automobile crash resistance, strength matters. You know those houses lined up with a street where it Ts? I’d want all the piece of mind I could have in one of those houses.
It can and will you'd be surprised how much load a root system can apply
285 pounds is way more than it needs to be. That is way more than adequate.
We share in your sorrow.
Thanks! I have received a lot of questions asking how strong are your panels. So I had to see. Take care! Kent
Is there not one man that is not scared of their wives? Why get married if you gonna live in fear? Supposed to be a partnership... the bleed and live for 7 days is dramatics....they supposed to do that.. better than being castrated over false evidence appearing real...for life
In a partnership, you do not want to disappoint your partner. In a mature relationship it isn't fear of your partner. It's concern over their feelings. It's time to grow up.
Because divorce screws you over big time 😂!
I think people just say that because it's funny not because they actually fear their partner. Not everything has to be taken literally.