I Love Neovim But I WONT Use It | Prime Reacts
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2023
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Reviewed video: • I Love Neovim, but I N...
Channel: Eric Murphy | / @ericmurphyxyz
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YES PRIME, we are waiting for neovim setup from scratch part 2
Please 🙏
Wasn’t ChrisAtMachine the guy who had a Neovim from scratch series? Unfortunately he scrapped it a bit, and now just distributes a fully baked LunarVim.
He uses mostly defaults, lol
@@Slashx92 g
+1
Tom one day said: “Requires experience to want a custom experience”
this is a really good phrase
Tom is a genius.
Tom is a genius, indeed
“You don’t look 40 but your editor choice sure confirms it“ gottim!
still hurts
The trick is to stop reading after the but. Positive statement + but = danger
@@ThePrimeTimeagen but that's the truth. You are 40 if you are 40. I knew a guy in his 20s who used vim for almost everything so editor doesn't confirm it!
12:44 would be great if you could show how you structure your code to achieve this. I know a bunch of people say "well separate your ins and outs from your logic" and stuff like that but having a real tangible example would be great
It's like Arch Users, love women but never have a girlfriend!!
There's a word for Arch/NixOS/Emacs/[Neo]Vim users now: *"incels".*
It took me like a week to properly configure nvim with lazy, lsp, treesitter, telescope and other desired plugins. The configuration I'll probably be happy about for the next couple of years. Knowing what every line does and being able to provide any possible customization I might want, where everything is set up exactly for your needs. This feeling is quite impossible to get with any other editor.
its because it is
Prime, nixos is this for operating systems.
What do you mean by "Knowing what every line does"?
when you make a vim config, it's all one configuration and so you can know what every line of your config does. kind of like settings.json + extensions.json + keybindings.json in vscode, but at the end of the day you still don't know how vscode works it's all.. magic @@MrAbrazildo
In config I'm guessing@@MrAbrazildo
I use vim all the time, but I never develop with it.
What do you use it for? Writing novels?
@@vikingthedudeI have it started in the background so I can look smart when I need to share my screen with colleague
@@Z3rgatulGIGACHAD
@@vikingthedude Anything and everything related to editing text outside of development. I even have my file binding for txt files set to open vim in a CLI, I just don't write code using vim.
What I usually do, is that if a plugin breaks something, then I throw a tag in there. Once I am ready to redo my setup I check to see if there is a need to move tags up to the new version.
True, Vim Motions are an UX ecosystem in their self. Not only Vim uses them, a lot of Unix tooling does
Actually they are Vi and Ex motions and commands, Vim was later developed to be an improved Vi.
And if I am not wrong, Vi was even a kind of an extension to Ex, which was also based on some kind of older tool if I am right with that too.
Maybe some older Unix gurus are reading this and can add more information here.
Wikipedia says something to the effect of "ex"
I don't think ex was a visual editor with motion commands, but some of the line edit commands, like in the s/ and "sed" type syntax, resemble the vi commands. Vi is the visual version of ex
Being very old, I use vi.
Well, that is pointed to neovim now. I'm on the keyboard;
Fingers do that.
ee gets me file search
hm gets me harpoon
It also compiles fine on a Raspberry Pi arm6 - 0.9.1 (not that I code on that, I cross compile, I compile it to make sure system is good)
lets go!
I'm always using a debugger. I like to see the flow of any complicated (relative) fn of class.
I had sone downtime last w/e so gave neovim a shot. Took a long afternoon to set it up. C/C++ dev with fairly large projects. Used VSCode, currently using CLion. Conclusion, I kinda get the keyboard speed thing. The tooling though isn't a patch on CLion (or VSCode) for large scale C/C++ dev, profiling and debugging. Customising and config is a PITA especially when you just want to get wotk done. Pain points on underdeveloped stuff will just eat away any benefits from Vim motions. I can see for certain command line based workflows it has some appeal, but for project IDE wotkflows it's just not there yet. Stuff is either missing or implemented worse than VSCode or CLion. YMMV.
What doesn't make sense is that he says in the video the problem with distro is that they are configured to somebody else's taste, isn't that what vscode is as well? lmao
That would be compaeable to just using vin out of the box. The problem with “the vim of someone else” is that is not something you built, AND is not standard (would lack documentation, etc)
Those distros don’t tell you jack shit. They expect you to know exactly what to do, so when something breaks ur completely lost. If something breaks In vscode u just uninstall the extension
i never used to use vim on windows and used vs code but after switching to linux i stop using vs code now it difficult for me to even use vs code occasionally , vim is such a great tool for make notes to writing code .
Gotem
god this is so true. Back in my windows days (literally like 2 years ago, but it feels like for ever. I don't think I would know how to use Windows anymore, if you put me in front of a windows pc) I was absolutely against VS Code, but that was just because it was Microsoft, and I didn't really understand the concept op debugging (back when life was easy). Since Linux that has completely and utterly changed. I am addicted to my terminal, the speed and efficiency; everything. Because of that it causes me physical pain to leave it, so why bother with slow and over-complicated VSCode?
As some who comes from many years of software enginering in on Windows using Visual Studio and VS Code, write a lot of C# but also in many other languages, widening my world to other operating systems and other tools in recent years was an amazing thing to do.
I became a power user of Arch Linux last years, and this year it where both the Rust programming language and Vim which I learned and dived really deep into.
After following an online training in Vim motions and commands the older and slower way of text editing from before did not feel right anymore, and so I installed the plugins in both VS and VS Code, also at work.
I would say. AI driven code completion is 1 powerful tool you can use, the other one is this quicker way of text navigation and editing. That's how I think.
Absolute rollercoaster of emotions at the start there...
Good to hear your thoughts on vim and Java, I'm stuck on the Java train for work. I was going to give neovim a try with it but I'd have to write a plugin to support Ivy dependency management first. Thinking I will just stick with Eclipse and the Vim plugin for now.
I'd recommend InteliJ for Java, I found it was a significantly nicer experience over Eclipse. Also has a Vim plugin 👍
@@dan-frank I have tried it sadly the Ivy dependency management isn't as nice for the legacy projects I maintain. Maybe I should give it another look It's been a few years
Kickstart is magic, I started with it. It is the bare minimum to understand how vim works without a ton of overwhelming features. Once I got the basics I replaced it with my custom version and boom
Exactly what I did as well a few days ago. Works like a charm right out of the box
I set up NeoVim using Kickstart today after re-installing Linux. After I added some of prime's suggested keybinds and harpoon, it's pretty much perfect. I put my edits on a fork and now I can get up and running in like 15 seconds 😁
fr the main issue i had with neovim "distro"s is that over a certain level of customization you need to look into its implementation specific, outside of how im supposed to configure it. as those distros have quite complicated implementation, its hard to do so, while kickstart.nvim exactly solves that as its (almost) a single lua file with about 300-ish lines of code excluding comments
You mean NEOvim.
How did you set up jumping to reference lines in the main buffer when you go up and down in the float window?
That kid spoke the truth. I learned vim I rarely use it nowadays. I value my time.
I'm a neo vim user with the PRIME setup from prime video. It's pretty cool and I use it every day. But I don't like messing around with vim too much. I just want a simple IDE for work, not a lot of customization. I still have vs code on my computer for copying and managing files, because it's way easier.
The engagement remark is so on point. I know a MtG streamer who mispronounces chat members' names on purpose as a tool of the trade. Works perfectly!
Prime how do you deal with the possibility of plugins being malicious and contain malware?
amazing video! I learn much and laugh more
Removing "bloat" is way easier than spending a lot of time perfecting your build, so distributions are THE way to go for people that have lives.
I disagree, it's easier to start from the default and just add the few things you need instead of having to remove a bunch of stuff.
Like I feel like if you are going to strip a districbution down anyway, why not just start from scratch?
@@officiallyaninjaOh, I see; I came to it from the coding perspective.
I definitely keep a minimal version for simple text editing. But it's not going to cut it for me as opposed to a fully fledged IDE.
@@officiallyaninjaThe difference lies in what you know, basically.
If you start from a bundle/distro that contains a lot of the stuff that's useful for you, you only need to look at that specific list, figure out what you don't need, and yeet it. If you start from blank... to build something effectively you need to already know what's out there, what exactly you need or not, what alternatives exist and their (dis)advantages etc.
Also, not removing something because you didn't know you don't need it generally has minimal impact. Not knowing there's something you could add that would help because there's too much out there? That's more a problem.
I would say that if you're switching to nvim from vs code, making it sort of look like vs code could help you be productive as you slowly remove the vs code features. I find I don't use the vs code vim motions extension despite that it's installed. Whereas as soon as I switch to vim I start using the vim motions
Huh, interesting. When I installed the vim motions plugin in CLion, I started picking them up pretty quick because there was no other way to navigate with it running.
@@torphedo6286 I do a lot of copy/pasting. I just left it in edit mode the whole time and never use any vim motions.
You touched on the reason I left emacs. Too many keybindings designed by someone else and a pressure to “give it a try” before naively creating my own bindings
I think is it ok to use nvchad astro etc to starting out once you get more comfortable then you can customized it to your own way
I've been having the same experience as his. Neovim is still not stable enough for me, I guess. Neovim is still BETA. They are continuously introducing breaking changes. So maybe I will for Neovim to be finally officially release, and still only if they introduce some kind of non breaking changes approach, mainly to the LSP, and other core APIs. I wonder how long will that take though.
I've tried to keep maintain my own neovim configuration for years, and in the end I have just got annoyed by the amount of changes. But I can see why some people like to keep doing it, not me.
real talk, give me a breaking change?
@@ThePrimeTimeagenYou should check null-ls archived related issue. They have breaking changes every version or so. Now they may have reduced but the above commenter is right.
then use regular vim.
The only thing that annoys me about daily driving NeoVim is not being able to just hit a button to run my project. I can have a build script or something, but it's annoying to run in a command line every time... having a run button is something I really miss. I got out of the habit of using a debugger while I was playing with DLL injection and couldn't figure out how to debug my remote code 😂
Newb here, couldn’t you make a keybinding to run that build command?
I update my plugins almost daily and it never breaks.
How do you get any work done? Madman.
@@codingdesk3637 I'm a student and I don't have a job yet, so I can take that risk, but it doesn't matter, having a job wouldn't change that, my configuration doesn't break.
17:30 Even on a MacBook 2023 GUI is slower than text, then again I do prefer and old BIOS-like interface with no GUI what so ever for tmux/vim, only exception is when having to check web browser, hence I do prefer 2 monitors.
For me JetBrains + some vim motions is gold standard. If you don't see the thing on the screen, I use structural navigation, navigation to other file is easy and as fast as in Vim, and it actually works. I tried to setup Vim for C#, but damm, it's an uphill battle, not worth it at all. So Rider it is :)
czcams.com/video/KpudmVmMWx4/video.html
VSCode slaps, setting up for a new language takes a few clicks. Fewer if you use devcontainers.
I don’t doubt there’s a higher speed ceiling on vim I just don’t think I’d ever get there.
I use a simple neovim setup for text editing, and other software for more specific tooling.
I use emacs mostly but I also use vscodium and I've been trying out helix recently (basically a rust version of NeoVim).
4:33, in Codeblocks, I right click on the Render word, and 'Find occurrences of Render'. It finds it throughout the project files. Even so, it's not that fast, it takes around 1-2s. And to pass throughout them, I've to click on each occurrence, which is not as great as just passing through them.
code::blocks? why?
@@ardnys35It seems to stay in an optimal point between VSCode/InteliJ and Vim-likes. It's middle-weight, it's not slow on Windows, has several good options, the more I discover the more I like it. And, the main reason: I've been fast enough developing with it. So I kept it.
We don't use the mouse here
@@halamadrid5238Ok. I'm just saying that mouse is not bad: it's comfortable, being just a little slower.
Anyone know what this search is that he's doing at 13:51 ? Looks like searching a list of projects outside of the current vim working directory
super vim noob here, which one is better? Kickstart or Lazy?
Ironically, what Prime does with his Vim is exactly what I did with my VSCode. VSCode is INCREDIBLY customizable
the feelings you want to feel are on the other side of the feelings you don't want to feel
I've actually been on a vim motions hiatus of sorts. It's so good to be back though, it's hard to truly appreciate something until you lose it.
11:00 sigh my dumass was trying to setup neovim up for a super large and oldish (Java 11) project.
This caused like hours of grief for my neovim onboarding since Mason didn't have an LSP that supported that version and I got into a rabbithole of finding and learning how to set up LSPs (still trying to figure it out a few days later)
I could really appreciate now how intellij just works out of the box.
The setup process of vim has eaten away at my productivity is worrying but I still have some copium that this will make me a better/faster dev. I knew the learning curve would've been steep but dam this was eye opening to what a noob I am
This is kinda similar to what I do. I just use Neovim for text edits and Emacs for full IDE features (customised with LSP, EVIL, and intended to be customised similar to how Prime uses Vim).
My parent never bought me a new laptop to use that chunky VSCode that's why I learn VIM
I do agree, if you want VS Code, use VS Code.
However, it is worth noting, that my customized setup, ends up being fairly close to VS Code.
The important part though is that what I have now I prefer over VS Code, it feels better, it's faster, it's closer to the terminal that I'm already in, I don't have to jump through JSON hoops. If I want to add remote plugin built in rust, I just do it. If I want a minimal script to run on save, I just add it. If I want to run external scripts on save, I just do it.
It's all so simple, and yeah it takes a bit of work to get neovim where mine is, and yeah, occasionally my screen looks like a text based vscode, but I'm also 2 buttons from zen mode, and 1 to 2 buttons from whatever harpooned files I have, and one button from toggling auto format, a slightly different one for doing it on a single buffer.
All of this with
I am watching this on SteamOS, and when he patted his head I was tapping the volume buttons. plop plop.
It's very hard for me to use VS Code, after using nvim, even when I use the vim plugin, it just feels like I am doing something wrong.
SO when is that neovim setup from scratch part 2 coming?
5:00 use the right tool for the job? Nah, use the right job for the language 🦀
😂😂😂
Eric Murphy is great, actually I landed on your channel because of him!
not everyone is worthy for the power of neovim
2:15 Looks like GO html templates ("html/template").
do vscode extensions never break things?
Homies hear me, i love and crave a unified neovim workflow but im in a database heavy data engineering/bi dev/decision support type role. i tried dadbod and the ui/completion etc but the workflow felt difficult for me and iv ended up in datagrip with ideavim kuz that emulation is pretty solid. is there some workflow using cli tools i can switch to that'll represent the database on my local filesystem and allow me to connect and query with completion in neovim that im not realizing is available to me?
halp
@18:26 💀 "To be one with your tool!
It's chat gepetee
For the yt algo my boi!
I kind of hate the lua configs, is it just the easiest language to embed or why did they choose it?
I like both but I’m not leaving eMacs for my main projects
I have rebuilt my PDE based on kickstart. It performs much better now and removed unused plugins that I had installed in the past. Simplified use of plugins. #worksforme
Which colorschem is that for the terminal
Golf if always such a good time!!
agreed with non-landing, i never use it. just hydrate session from the project's directory and off to the races
I decided to learn Natural and Adabas because a company my friend works in needs developers. It's in eclipse...
All the plugins are done to VSCode's defacto standard of LSP, and everyone gets to follow VSCode's idiosyncrasies if they want it to work in their editor too
I think people are trying to create a VSCode workflow in Neovim just because they have gotten used to using a similar flow like they had in Sublime, Atom, and VSCode. This is just an entry point, just to do something to feel comfortable. Only after that, you can realize that you don't need certain things and will find a much cooler approach to figuring out and making your workflow better or just different. And of course you can't create your custom exp, just because you had exp with typical code editors.
Yup, the whole problem is trying to use (neo)vim as you would use gui editor, without even changing your workflow. It's not unlike going into vim and rejecting motions and modes except insert mode, using it like regular editor and then saying "it sucks". Well, yeah, if you use it like that it does.
He literally turned in seconds😂😂
I had a good experience with eclipse for Java unironically
6:10 had me close to tears 😂
I got off lunarvim and moving to lazy vim. There's only so much time I can spend on my editor.
I really do plan to dig in, but it wont be enough time spent in vim I keep switching because X isn't configured.
Imo it's easier to start from scratch then a distro. I tried lunarvim, lazy im and Kickstart and I only managed to use nvim after doing it from scratch following a blog tutorial. And it was so much easier you would not believe it
Honestly I prefer regular vim to even neovim at this point. Also not really using autocomplete anymore except the regular CTRL+N completion (sometimes its even better honestly because it just continues text - also can continue whole lines actually!).
I guess if I would use neovim, I would not really install plugins a lot. Pretty much like minimalism as-is - but I totally use it for development. I also think quick navigation to files where classes are is the better way to look for what to call than simple completion because it gives me more information so likely that is why I prefer that. I also prefer to be as familiar with the codebase (or learn to be very fast familiarizing) that completions would not really help that much and there is nothing faster than you already knowing what you want to write and you just write it out. For that CTRL+N is all I need because it just makes it faster for me to write it out - its not there for me to look what is possible but to write out what I want faster.
Syntax highlight and netrw I do use though. Also use dwm with other terminals for various things and ranger for various tasks. I wish there would be debugger that runs in the terminal though - does anyone know one for js/ts??? I am very happy with raw gdb so I wish I have similar instead of using the browsers.......
man i'm not sure if its bait comment or not but
neovim by default does not come with any lsp autocompletion or linting turned on
by default it comes with exactly the same autocompletion (ctrl+n) that vim does, no difference
it does come by default with the ABILITY to support lsps (aka lsp client) but you have to configure it for it to do anything
you might've installed some sort of neovim distro if you had those things by default
but neovim really only adds lsp-client, the lua engine (but it still supports vimrc), easy to setup tree-sitter (which i honestly can't go back after using it) and the obvious one which is a much more alive plugin eco system
@@meawingmeatball803 It is not any bait comment I just not need the features of neovim that makes most people use neovim instead of vim.
> neovim by default does not come with any lsp autocompletion or linting turned on
> by default it comes with exactly the same autocompletion (ctrl+n) that vim does, no difference
And no one said it comes with those. But if there is no difference and that is the only thing I basically tend to use, there is no gain for me in neovim isn't it?
> it does come by default with the ABILITY to support lsps (aka lsp client) but you have to configure it for it to do anything
I actually think LSP was a bad idea overall. I know... I know... it solves your problems... My point is that it solves problems in a very overbloated way... So not caring for LSP support...
> you might've installed some sort of neovim distro if you had those things by default
Read my comment again - also cleared this up above for you.
> but neovim really only adds lsp-client, the lua engine (but it still supports vimrc), easy to setup tree-sitter (which i honestly can't go back after using it) and the obvious one which is a much more alive plugin eco system
- lsp client: I am not liking LSP at all and hope it will be one day exchanged to a better system with less json and less bloat so not care
- lua: Not really a big fan of lua. I am not against it objectively, just subjectively not really big fan at all. But unlike with LSP which I think objectively is bad, for lua I just subjectively have no interest so its just not a selling point. I can understand it can be selling point for other people - just personally not affected...
- tree-sitter: Again... not really interested, also not totally sure about it if I am just subjectively not interested or if bloated because not decided yet, but really not giving me much.
- plugin ecosystem: As I said I pretty much not use plugins.
Again I quote what I wrote originally: "I guess if I would use neovim, I would not really install plugins a lot. Pretty much like minimalism as-is" - which hints to you (I thought its a clear message) that yes, I could use neovim as a more bloated vim replacement with features and plugins that I do not use.... but what is the point of doing that? I think the reason to use neovim it to DO USE those features! For example you say you DO use those features: Good. I see why you like neovim. But for me regular vim with a normal regular setup is less bloated and do everything I need whatsoever so what is the point? The few things I want to change I am fine to vimscript down because they are very few and custom anyways so not really losing out on features that nvim makes possible. Do you understand my point?
@@u9vata its okay man i'm not trying to convince you, just wanted to make sure people don't read the comment and assume neovim comes with all this stuff
I use Vim to update my configs and add plugins.
I find a debugger is really nice to have for python, its a pain in the ass to look at unannotated code and try to figure out what types things are supposed to be runtime. I use nvim-dap-ui to debug in nvim
Same but, i think dap-ui is nowhere near at what i have in pycharm, so most of the time if i want debugger i just avoid dap-ui and use pycharm.
E.g if you want to debug Django, with dap-ui you can only do with tests. Otherwise you have to attach debugger to Django process and it is just pain in ass.
Wait, other people develop HTML on Chrome Dev Tools too?
Can't edit code without vim motions since ehm, the year 2000. Every IDE I use has to have them. Including markdown editors.
Got Java and Neovim to work together eventually, not using it for daily work (forced to use windows being one reason). But for hobby work I did not dislike it. Main complaint is that the LSP (jdtls) is like a limb cut off from eclipse and is quite a seven headed picky dragon. If there is another LSP for Java I'd be glad to investigate.But yes, IntelliJ is quite unbeaten in Java development land.
Debugging work fine in nvim, just need to setup DAP and start the app in debug mode. The reason why I prefer nvim to vs code is because I can do everything on the keyboard and I have my editor in a drop down terminal so I navigate inside vim, between tmux panes and windows all in the same place with the keyboard. You cannot do that easily with vscode and it is not that seamlessly integrated. Java works in nvim with the lsp, the major problem with java is that IntelliJ ha so much more built specifically for JVM on top of LSP..
4:43 how does he move along references ? Need Help !!
He basically said vim is sublime text to him.
I've been using neovim for go development for a year now and before for Python development. Switched from vscode and never looked back. I don't get his point that his neovim constantly breaks. I don't remember when neovim broke last time for me or crashed. It performs super smoothly on a medium sized codebase, the lsp provides all the features I need and I even have a debugging experience. Sure, its worse than vscode's or Jetbrains IDE as it is "just" terminal-based, but it gets the job done, especially as I am using it mostly to run unit tests and set breakpoints in the tested code. Plus I don't need a lot of plugins to make it vscode like as I also use telescope with alternative file thus making tabs obsolete.
someone at work convinced me to use i3wm and now they are slowly getting me to use neovim
I also moved away from nvim purely because of the plugin breaking changes. I dont have time to fix something I expect to be stable. I will however give the vscode neovim plugin a go! I tried the vim plugin and my god it was so slow you can see the delay on keystrokes also its buggy and breaks some of the existing functionality of vscode
LSPs in my experience sound great until you actually try using them... I have never had a state where one was just working for me, and that's the reason I stick with IDEs or Pseudo-IDEs like VSC personally.
22:37 internet was already like this way before chatgpt was even in the mind of the creators
My biggest gripe with Vim Motions is.... myself. I have a hard time getting off the habit of navigating the code with arrow keys instead of hjkl. Habits built over two decades are hard to unlearn, and I also just generally like the tetris t-block shape for my movement, like arrows or wasd.
Other vim motion stuff like selecting words, removing lines, etc, are easier to learn because they're generally new. But simple navigation of the caret, man oh man
Disable arrows in your editor, two days and you will pick up hjkl :)
@@gbroton I don't really plan to vim-ify anything else that uses arrow keys for navigation, but I probably should tbh.
Edit: Should as in change arrow keys on nvim
Just continue using arrows
what about a keyboard without the arrow keys?
You shouldn't be using hjkl either, learn to use wbe ft and the search
I always develop with nvim but like to connect to my servers with Visual Studio because ssh is hard
My favorite text editor is bash
18:12 ^^ Gem
I'd say he was off by 2.0 or 29, not sure which one, 40 flat just doesn't seem right
Can somebody tell me what's that plugin that search and replace stuff?
Telescope
chat jippity
I can't find a easy way to do project level find and replace. So I'm kinda switching between neovim and vscode 😅
telescope
@@ThePrimeTimeagenI thought it only searched for file names
@@gritcrit4385 nope! Telescope can search through files, buffers, strings (like a grep), help documentation, keymaps, quick fix lists… just about anything. It’s a fairly generic use tool!
Vs Code + Vim motions is the best middle ground.
prime: "WHO USES NORD?!!?!"
r/unixporn: 👁👄👁
You've gradually convinced me... to get emacs lmao
I'm fresh with Nvim, but I think I disagree with the point that debuggers dont work in Nvim. I have limited experience with it so far, but I use a debugger sometimes when writing C and I haven't faced any issues with it yet
Can you show your debugging setup in neovim?
I've just finished the video and I assume you don't have such setup.
github.com/mfussenegger/nvim-dap + Mason = easy
i am typically not a fan of visual debuggers and a lot of my work doesn't allow me to have them.
@@ThePrimeTimeagenL. Imagine not having a Smalltalk-esque IDE that can do live surgery on your code. Couldn't be me.
the neocult of nvim will surely help you.
vscode doesn't even have a half decent vim motions extension
LoL, I’ve spent much more time configuring vscode.
Vi editors improved my minimalism
neovim setup.....cuando hombre?