Zed “kills” VSCode
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2024
- Zed is touted as the new VSCode killer. I had to check it out for myself.
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mac only
I got laid off last week because I was coding too slow. Had I been using Zed, I could have closed more tickets 10-15ms faster. Dammit
😆
top notch humour hahahhahaha
10ms per frame * millions of frames = hundreds of thousands of dollars lost in productivity 😅
@@amjedbelgacem8218Humor is appreciated here
@@AZisk Typical German.
It has a lot of potential. But it’s no way near feature complete enough to be considered a vscode killer. Yet.
No way near feature complete is not true. It has like 90% of features needed.
hey, does it have extension support and such? I use windows so I haven't used it yet@@Patrickdaawsome
if there is no plugins then it is far from being usable
@@Patrickdaawsome no. It's still missing many small details that it would need to consider killing vscode
Wait until it gets plugins, and the speed may reduce as bloat is added
Lmao. That 97ms to 58ms marketing is just marketing 101.
The thing that gets me is thats still a HUGE delay. Assuming your screen is 60Hz thats nearly FOUR WHOLE FRAMES between keypress and it being rendered on screen. I dread to think how slow it looks on a 144hz monitor
@@squishy-tomato They will have more time to enjoy slow MacOS UI animations 😅
This is a far more interesting metric on a Raspberry Pi that is more resource limited. With VSCode living in that world, having Zed (Or COSMIC-Edit) running faster than the incumbent editor would make a palpable difference in programming experience on these small devices.
Try zed vs vscode on a 4 year old Intel Mac and you will see this huge difference.
zed is written is rust 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
No windows support yet.
Like it or hate it, it still is the big fish in the pond.
Zed should get to level 6 first to get their ult and then try killing vscode
+rep for the analogy
And no build for Linux? You know... the thing most people are connecting to and working on?
So, just Mac users.... who are... not always doing dev work...
Um... okay, Zed! You just pretend to be the cool kid.
i trust microsoft more than some small team from zed, the benchmarks are fake, when you install extensions it even worse than vscode, vscode is nice, its smooth, and windows design is good, also widely used and recognized editor, what the he is even zed?😂 theay hopefully fixed scroll whcih was buggy, but they didn't fixed other issues , i checked the source code they use strange variable names and also dont follow guidelines from mister bob clean code architecture that's why their codesucks j! and willsuck ! they will never replace google code editor and vscode !❤
I mean they could poke them down slowly by spamming Q (getting more extensions)... Zed is an artillery mage after all.
Didn't expect a dota 2 reference here
The bad thing about Zed (for now) is that VSCode has a ton of extensions; yes Zed automatically integrates using LSP but that's pretty much it. But it's VERY promising.
What makes it promising? It's for Mac, and as far as I can see, VSCode just runs like butter on Mac and prolly doesn't hog a big %age of RAM too.
@@VivekYadav-ds8oz Drains a lot of my battery tho, I still need to try Zed and see if there is some improvements
@@VivekYadav-ds8ozdoesn't what? VSCode bundles a whole browser, an OS compatibility layer (electron) and a language runtime just to run a text editor. that's as wasteful as it can be
All of my extensions in VS Code that I use at work are to provide functionality that LSP and treesitter provide. Im fine with it just having LSP now.
@@FlanPoirot That's more of a thing which I hate on principle. However, realistically, it doesn't take that much storage for something that's such a key component of your development cycle.
I'm in a similar position: I'm not using Zed as my main editor for now, but I am keeping it installed and periodically checking things out as it gets updated. It has a lot of promise for me and I'm really looking forward to seeing where it goes in the future
Performance matters a lot more when low on resources. I've driven a baseline MacBook Air to its limits and beyond for years, most of the time VSC had little to no noticeable delays but whenever running out of memory or having the CPU catch up, it was BAD. Particularly the vim mode plugin (ergonomics, yo) would swallow inputs and become generally unreliable. That aside, VSC also uses much more memory than it needs to, as any Electron based app does. 300-600mb may be nothing for my current computer, but when you're running 8GB with your base system already using 2 of those, you've got some containers (another 1-2GB), browser tabs and other dev tools open, you'll appreciate every bit of extra memory you can save.
When working on large monorepos my extensions alone would consistently use 4GB of ram. Thankfully that doesn't really affect my workstation, but it's still not okay.
I have 8 gb linux laptop
I feel firefox eats too much ram even web uses too much ram in general
8gb feels 2Gb these days
Which is why I just use vs code sparingly when pairing with another person or computer, but personally I use vim and neovim.
Also when I need to go to a cafe and want the peace of mind of being able to do quick coding sessions, I could also replace the laptop for a tablet and use vim / code-server via ssh.
Yup, having a browser as the display surface for all electron apps (chromium) and running everything in it essentially adds a non-significant amount of tax to any app. For vs code its's fine (it does a lot of things well), but you can also take a look at intellij based apps (while more advanced) having a java swing based app is also quite heavy.
One thing I will never understand is the people who create / use something like hyper (the electron based terminal....) that is just insanity, even if your computer makes no sweat about it.
Exactly. Everyone who says that bloated Electron apps are as fast as something native like Zed are just spoiled with high-end pc's
Thanks for your great videos. I even sometimes watch them twice because there is soooo much useful information in your videos. Greetings from Belgium & Germany
Taking the crown from VScode is very difficult, there is a lot of work behind it, it takes years to offer the developed benefits that it offers.
The developers of Zed contributed a lot of that work, particularly with respect to Electron.
Have you used VS or working with larger projects then Sublime Text is a lot faster
VSCode is slow if projects are big
?? visual studio code was never crowned to begin with. it's a garbage slow electron app that barely does anything you need it to do
@@perghosh8135I mean when I work on a large codebase, I move to neovim. Vscode cant handle large projects and I don’t think thats a negative, because vscode could not add all the features it has plus be super easy to use with no learning curve if they also wanted to make it handle large projects better.
Personally, I work on large projects maybe twice a year or even less than that, so vscode fits my requirements. And I think most developers and engineers fall in the same category.
Plus I don’t think your point makes sense because no one who works on a large codebase uses vscode. Vscode never said that its large codebase friendly. Everyone knows its electron and can’t handle large projects.
if they fix about 5 things, I would never go back to vscode
Zed's response times wil be fantastic for use in films where everyone 'programming a computer' seems like they're on speed.
Definitely will be checking out Zed. Thanks!
There’s an extension for VSCode to enable zooming font size in the editor separately from the rest of the UI. I think it’s called “Responsive Font Weights”.
Thats so useful, thank you.
VSCode works on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Web browsers.
With so many extensions like WSL, SSH, Docker, etc.
With SSH extension I can view pictures and videos over SSH on my server and browse files like I'm working with Files Explorer or Finder on the local machine.
Zed is not a VSCode killer 😂 I don't think they going to kill anyone anytime soon.
I dunno if I'm the only one that doesn't care about an extra 50ms or whatever input delay, but just having good features, like what you get with Jetbrains
I held off trying Rider for .NET dev and regret waiting so long. It’s superb on Mac IMO. Not as much of a fan of it on Windows but I have Visual Studio on there.
JetBrains Rider has tons of .NET focused tools that VS4Mac didn’t have.
I know this is an IDE but JetBrains also have a beta of an application that can switch between text editor (like VS Code) and Full IDE as required. Which I think is an interesting idea
yeah, if we are talking slow vs slow editors, then at least JetBrains stuff provide great experience.
VS code opens for me like in 10 seconds with all extensions, and OS loads in like 12 seconds
The response time differences may have a lot to do with the simplified extensions that Zed supports compared to the more complex extension interface of VS Code.
I think the problem here is that nobody is complaining that VSCode is slow - we use it for its convenience and its extensions. if you want a fast no-frills code editor like this, you're gonna use nano or neovim or Sublime, etc. Nobody asked for "VSCode but stripped down to the essentials and also slightly faster," so while Zed is getting a lot of coverage and that is good for competition, there is absolutely no reason to use it over VSCode.
I am complaining about VS Code’s speed.
It used to be fast when it came out but it has slowed down overtime.
Sometimes it takes me seconds to open a file, which is annoying considering I use VS Code as a quick editor and not my main IDE.
(I use Jetbrain’s tools for my main IDEs)
@@DynamicalisBlueyeah. Whats the point of ide if it freezes when opening/editing projects(based on my experience). As for me, neovim is the one, it also fixed my wrist.
I realize how valuable extensions are for VS Code. They're the only ones keeping me from moving to Zed.
My opinion on zed is..... ( waits 2 years )
In every way possible, the $20/month for GHCP is superior in efficiency and cost-effectiveness to using the chat API endpoint. Also, that pop out to new floating window is a new feature and took VSC a long time, but it’s still limited since you can’t pop out a Jupyter NB.
I just installed it on my personal Mac and I have to admit I absolutely love the clean and smooth interface. Thank you Alex!
I might try it on my company's Mac too, I'm curious to see how it will manage our huge codebase.
I'm curious as well. I don't think I've seen anyone comparing the two editors outside of just basic files or small projects.
good luck with instant crashes lmfao
What code editor did they use to create Zed?
Of course it was notepad.exe.
They probably used vi
Zed was built with Zed when Zed was stable enough
@@skynse8174And before that?
@@skynse8174 hahaha it was a joke
VSCode does slow down with large projecțs (like multi-project mono repos). I switched over to JetBrains WebStorm and the usability with these large projects was terrific! Yes, you have to pay to use WebStorm, but it’s worth it for my projects (plus JetBrains’ AI Assistant is just as good if not better than copilot).
Yea I’ve worked on projects where if I have like more then 3 tabs open with tens of thousands of lines I can get an input lag of more then 500ms and witch really sucks
4:55 the window tear off is pretty new to VS code! Although the issue was sitting in their tracker for almost forever it was always down to some Electron limitations. I guess that was fixed now and so it could be passed to VS code.
It's nowhere near a vscode killer, being MacOS exclusive still.
8:10 how did you call up that FPS monitor on that MacBook Pro ??😮😉😉
🤓🤓🤓😝😝😗
Alex - why are you not wearing Apple vision pro? Scared of seing Zed being 10ms faster on your own eyes? :D
😆
I'm using Zed for 2/3 months now and it became my main editor as VSCode is the backup because of the extensions. Zed still has a long way to go but it's quiet impressive what they have done so far and I'm loving it.
I've switched from vscode to helix for my daily editing. It is amazingly fast and has most of the features I normally use already baked in. Loving it thus far. There's even an extension dance for vscode that stress up a similar keymap to helix so I can use the same key commands if I have to use vacode. It's not perfect but very helpful. All that being said I haven't needed to switch from helix in a while.
How did you do the voice dubbing that perfectly sounds like Bruce Willis? Which tool?
Could be Eleven AI
just a good microphone to capture the bass
Is not how fast is vs code, but is how many resources consumes when is running. Sometimes it crushes the entire system… at least on my Mac.
It's not just on the Mac. Electron based browsers are also resource hungry.
I also find many corp environments they got us installing Symantec or some other file scan tank responding to git and VSCode. My Intel max sits at 100C most of the day. Any attempts at asking for an exclusion list are lost.
Try to run webstorm 😅
Zed is way faster than VSCode w/ minimal extensions here for my mid-sized projects.
I have switched to Zed only this whole week at work and I really love it. Think I will stay on it in the future.
tryed Zed for a while. looks ok for some simple tasks considering perfomance, thx for suggesting new software
I’m sorry but if the speed of opening files is what’s killing your productivity then congrats. Maybe remove some plugin bloat?
Even without any extensions VSCode is starting slower than zed simply because VSCode is built on Electron
But what if we compare zed with sublime text? 😊
Extensions are what are holding VSCode, like a network effect. Lapce is also pretty fast compared to VSCode, but I don't see how it can take over with so many missing niceties.
They improved upon the Notepad code base and called it Zed. As you can see both include e and end with d.
I’m still going to use IntelliJ IDEA to do my actual work because it does so much for me, and can handle working on massive projects well. The only time I run VSCode is when I need a dumb text editor, as long as it has a cli tool to open a file it does what I need.
Excellent work, thanks!
I doubt that it will get comparable extensiblity as VS Code. But without it, I don't think it will be easy to switch.
If they instead build everything they can into the base editor, it will become a full blown IDE like Visual Studio, which is not at all lightweight...
Do you have all extensions disabled? I recently switched to NeoVim because VSCode becomes too slow and memory hogging for large project. Frequently got VM OutOfMemory issue. Moreover the extension can eat up loads of space as well
No support for linux nor windows, no dark mode in their website .... long ways to be even close to vscode killer.
your first point is valid. Your second point I have questions.
its mostly about their target audience is wrong, they are not supporting developers as a whole but a niche group, most developers like dark mode on everything, so if your product is for developers so should you target that audience, same goes for the windows 90% usage vs mac...@@AZisk
so to iterate a tldr, I doubt their product because they don't know what their target audience is, so features that most likely would be good will tend to not be priority.@@AZisk
Both Windows and Linux support is in the works tho
in the works, is not priority, basically saying " we prefer to work in a 5% usage base instead of the biggest one "@@FirephoenixX02
Try doing multiline and editing 4000 lines at once, I use sublime for this at times when writing queries for locations and stuff, sublime can be really really slow, how's Zed?
zed is awesome. im not ready to change over. but for sure looks like an exciting project.
When something becomes a "killer" of something, it's usually all hype.
Yeah, killer only for mac user
I mean you could try to build it for other OS's, but for now you might run into trouble
Will definitely give Zed a good try. I like the idea of modern performance-focused editor. As I am not a full-time programmer, it is hard to keep my vim/neovim configuration stable. In contrast Zed seems to be almost feature-complete without any plugins.
try helix then
@@MindBlowerWTF Does it have support for CoPilot?
I have an intel macbook pro (2018) and I am definitely seeing VSCode slowing down a bit more on every new release. The difference with Zed, on my laptop, is immediately evident. But after trying Zed for a bit, I think for me it's still a bit early...still some rough edges and a couple of missing features I really need. Definitely considering for the future though.
Zed is good, but UI/UX in VS Code is much more convenient. And VS Code is fast enough.
"stability" lol
saw this thing crashing a suspicious amount of times :P
using it for a week, crashed maybe 1 time (M1 Macbook Pro)
To me it seemed to mostly crash with the coop coding which makes sense as it's in such early development
Zed is not 1.0 (stable) yet, it's in BETA.
If you wanna quickly edit a file, focus editor is really nice too
Currently it's basically just a text editor with some code highlighting features
But the text editing part works really well and a lot of short cuts that help you just around and make changes
Only mac support so far, i built their linux version from source just to see how far along the support was and it froze up halfway through looking through my first project. Maybe down the road it will be great, but right now its just a mac exclusive half bake.
my sudo nano opens faster than zed
As a vim user, vscode is noticably slow.
Hi Alex! Your videos are a must for any developer, I really enjoy your attention to detail and really professional tests, oriented to the developer ecosystem.
Glad you like them!
I’m excited to see a new player in the space. I’ve been happily using Helix for a while now (I think Kakoune’s way of doing things makes a lot more sense than vim), but I originally switched from VSCode because I got tired of all the popups, notifications, and random obtrusive features getting added without warning, forcing me to read for hours through release notes and settings descriptions trying to figure out how to turn it off. I want my editor, and I don’t want it to change unless I ask it to. Hopefully Zed turns out this way
I've been using it for over a week. Missing some things that make me sad like "emmet wrap with abbreviation" but I'm hoping if I stick with it, it will evolve to become the best editor
Alex went full fuzz testing bloodbath, the poor editor wan't ready for such intensity.
There is also Lapce wich as popular as Zed, also written in rust and cross-platform
Great you didn't post a link, it's so more fun searching for it 👍
Learned a few things. Thanks.
I've been using Zed for 1 week now. No regrets moving to zed. (the only missing feature is the capacity to work over ssh on a remote server)
Glad to see that Scharzenager got broken out for the true test 👍
By the way, it is now "available" for Windows and Linux too; but you have to build it yourself. It's essentially just running 3 commands in the terminal. Note that it is really unstable, crashes often, Copilot won't work and lot's of stuff is just not working yet.
One thing I realised is if you want to create a Monopoly, building extension ecosystem is big part of that. Scenarios like this shows it very well. Developers put years of effort into building these awesome extensions and now its harder to competition to break in. Thats why even Google's new cloud ide, project idx is based on code - oss and they can use well established vs code extensions.
I'm on linux, I am not a professional programmer, more like a medium student, I completely agree on speed and stuff, I'd love to try
zed, but I can't (MacOS only atm). Also I wonder if Zed will be non-minimalistic, if it can compete with all the capabilities, that vscode extensions can offer.
LSP server? Plugins/extensions? No telemetry? Seamless integration with current vscode extensions?
I dont think that it will ever have integration with vs code extensions. Its not based on electron
Hi Alex. When you installed it, did you have any problems with VSCode already being present? Or Sublime Text?
I'm not sure what kind of problems you're thinking of (it's just another editor) but no, it didn't cause any problems for VSC or Sublime on Mac for me.
I'm curious how much of a hit the battery takes from using GPUI. Although interesting, the benefits just don't seem to be worth it for me if it affects battery. I'd like to be able to be remote when I want/need to.
I've been a huge fan and user of vscode, but what excites me about zed is the speed. You do notice slow the response of vscode is when you're doing a lot of vim commands and vim motions really quickly.
I use an editor called Micro, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles but is really fast and I like it.
With respect to the increased speed found with Zed loading files, starting approximately at 1:35, the testing did not take into account two important things. The first is the time to start or switch to the app. The second is that after the first test the file or directory is held in cache memory by the operating system. To properly test how fast each opens a directory or file a new directory or file must be selected for each test. For each pair of tests the two directories or files should be as close to the same size as possible.
I was part of a team that was responsible for changing a process which ran once a night into one that could be started from a website. The process involved a large number of small programs that each performed a tiny bit of the process and used temporary files to communicate between the different stages. The process originated on a six bit mainframe and there had never been enough money or time to integrate them into them all. Programming wasn’t the issue. Verifying the outcomes stayed the same was the highest priority as the application was used during the process of business incorporation. Any differences and lawsuits could occur. The data was still stored using six bits and every small program read data, converted it from six bits, ran, converted the output to six bits, wrote the data to a file, and exited. A script was used to control the flow of the small programs and that had to be modified to prevent them from overwriting one another temporary data. Time and extreme caution limited our choices. Instead of making each of the small programs able to run instances at once it was easier and safer to lock each one to a single instance. When it came time to testing we ran a request through the nightly version and it took somewhere around 45 seconds. We then switched over to our project and ran it in a two or three seconds. We were all thrilled but it seemed way too much of an improvement for me as we could not implement the chances we identified as having the biggest performance improvements. I asked the person running the test to retry the old method again and it ran in three to four seconds. We eventually determined that the gigabytes of data the application uses was cached in during the first running. Because we were running on a server with lots of memory and set up to cache as much as possible we had to fill the cache with approximately 96GB of junk between tests if we wanted to compare times. This was 25 years ago on a Silicon Graphics server. Ever since then I’ve remembered to take caching in account.
The response time is more noticable on higher refreshrate monitors
60 fps is good enough, but damn 120-144 hz feels smooth
I was tried to open a 400mb xml file in inbuilt text editor of MacOS it failed, tried the same with vscode and it failed as well(basically crashed) but Zed was the only editor that could open it with no issues. Just WOW!!!
i've tried zed in my m1 air. it's a little buggy at times that gets frustrating, but it sure has plenty potential to give vs code a run for it's money.
Even programming in Commodore Basic the machine speed was not the limiting factor. It is nice to have snappy tools, but functionality is more important than speed. But is is great to have a choice. I just don't see how you get an army of plugins for a new editor.
I have tried the Zed. And it looks awesome . But, it the same time it has some bugs and doesn’t support syntax highlights for Dockerfile for example.
this summer, my company laptop was slow, was thermal throtling, and I would loved to have zed available. Now I've got a M2, and yeah, now I don't see the difference, but I'm sure past summer It will help a lot, I started using helix because of the performance problems.
I tried it seems cool, i hope it will improve quickly
Not sure about the zooming of whole window vs the editing component, but it would be nice on both if you could do this independent- like add a 'shift' key to the mix- so you zoom it all, or just your code.
I'm just glad that VSC recently added the ability to have zoom per window, rather than zooming all open windows at the same time.
I'm glad we have a competitor in Zed, but as a lot of people are saying, we need more extensions before it is a VSC killer.
Since my work required some official extensions only supported in intellij java based editors or vscode, I opted for later. So unless it gets official support from the extensions, can't use it. Can't simulate SystemVerilog stuff cuz there's basically no open source solution to do UVM tests, only via either extensions or via specialised software
This is interesting. I've yet to switch from sublime text to VSCode because of the slower speed (and worse multi cursor support). Maybe I will switch to this in the future. But for now, Sublime is still my number 1.
i feel sorry for anyone using vscode already anyways. The actual performance is not the reason why your a slow programmer if ur still using ur mouse. when you make use of a lot of shortcuts you will get dizzy from the slowness of vscode in no time
Ofcourse the M2 MacBook renders a text editor really well. Where the big difference is for slower machines and memory constrained machines. Try this on an older Intel Mac
Does Zed let you print? I was surprised by VS Codes lack of a print menu item.
at this point it's still another notepad++ but it's developing quickly. when i downloaded it a couple of weeks ago for the first time there was no extension section.
however, still long way to go if they want to kill anyone.
apparently i'm leaning to zed now despite the lack of extensions. at first i thought it sucks then eventually i'm in love with it lmao
I've tried Zed and if you run it on a 120Hz screen (e.g., directly on your MBP) it feels glorious. Once we have all the usual plugins that everybody uses, it's going to be a serious VSCode competitor. VSCode is great but it's hamstrung by electron, I like the bare-metal feeling that Zed gives.
Also the AI autocompletion in Zed is god-tier, I use it to write documents and it's incredible! Definitely a must try if you can afford OpenAPI API keys.
There are many subtle but small things missing with Zed, like configuration of font weight is not supported and it’s default value looks terrible on my cheap monitor.
So, how many times do you open your editor? Not running all the time because of sleep mode in the computer? Sure Zed is quicker but at no point have VSCode been a problem for being slow.
Biggest benefit: battery consumption is much lower on Zed. Gotta love that Rust performance!
But I agree with Alex. Zed's not quite there yet, but they're making quick progress. Gonna keep checking back to how they crack VSC's "moat": the extensions.
That's some blast processing right there by Zed.
I might use Zed in the same way I use notepad++. For quickly editing singular text files rather than as an IDE
I'm using zed since one week. it's super fast. but I hope from the zed team to improve some extension like resolve git conflict.... But is fast and clean
are the cpus so slow... that we need gpu for text display?
When opening files, mske sure to switch it up do you don't always open using VS Code first because the operating system may coache recent files.
I'd like to use zed now, but there's no linux support at the moment. So i prefer vscode / vscodium. Maybe in the near future i'll try it
Love to watch your video alex.
thx!
Agree! Except Zed ain’t sh*t lol an editor written in Rust with a plugin system that requires understanding Rust will NEVER serve the level of support required to put a dent in VS Code marketshare.
What’s more is the fact that an editor hanging its hat on performance but only supports macOS is laughable - talk about a controlled environment.
I tried Zed for a few days and kept finding myself back in VSCode. I can put up with a few missing features but no GitHub integration was a no-go for me. Ultimately I just changed my VSCode theme and uninstalled Zed.
Ok, thx for rewiew. Gonna wait for lunux version to touch it