I'm Gonna Try Zed Now (RIP VSCode)
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2024
- Huge shoutout to the Zed team for their hard work on these changes, genuinely hyped about what y'all have here. I'm committed, gonna give Zed a real shot now
Blog post: zed.dev/blog/120fps
Check out my Twitch, Twitter, Discord more at t3.gg
S/O Ph4se0n3 for the awesome edit 🙏 - Věda a technologie
User: "it doesn't work on my machine"
Most developers: "not sure how to reproduce this so oh well"
Zed: *knocks on door*
First they check if you have a huge CZcams channel about programming
Nix: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
Underrated comment 😂
Stack overflow: -2,342 down votes
@@VelociraptorX important missing step.
Right now this makes me upset with Apple for making Metal instead of using Vulkan (or sticking with OpenGL) which were both cross-platform APIs
It would be very surprising if apple used vulkan :P their whole motto is doing their own thing and block others from it. "Walled garden"
Apple has an entirely different architecture (TBDR). Metal is optimized for that, and is very nice to use with Swift. Vulkan is notorious (already).
Vulkan was not released until 2016, Metal was released in 2014 (and was being worked on for years before that). Open GL was (annd still is) hopelessly outdated and not being updated nearly fast enough. Apple did the best thing they could do at the time they did it. If vulkan existed at the time, it’s entirely possible they would have used it. It makes no sense for them to abandon the thing they have complete control over, at this late date.
That being said, it would be awesome if they put their efforts into helping to polish Molten VK (and/or open sourced Metal), which can translate Vulkan calls into Metal on the fly. I do applaud the Molen VK folks. They’ve done an amazing job.
Metal supports pre-compiled shaders (too), and shaders can be compiled from their LLVM IR (not just source files), so interop maybe easier than it would've been historically. It's well above my pay-grade though.
@@praus good point, I forgot to double-check that.
When is Prime gonna convert you to Neovim?
He use to be a vim user
There is a video from him saying that he was tired of configuration management and breaking changes from every other update…
To each their own, I understand his point despite not agreeing with his conclusions, but it is his work and environment so it doesn’t matter 😅
Vim is gay
When is he gonna convert Theo to linux?
Micro editor
I like Zed, and I really wanna use it as my daily, but without an extension system I just can't switch from VSCode.
wait until bro discovers neovim
Well, if they are looking to make it a standard then I would think they are gonna add that functionality.
@@coolcsgo yeah i’m sure it’s coming too, there’s just too many QoL features vscode has for me to give it up yet.
yup same for me tbh@@bungbloopity
To give up a mature IDE you are already productive with for the yet another new unproven kid in town is just… nah.. this fps clickbait should convince who again? 👋🏼😂
I’ll use Zed when it’s finished.
I'll use it once it's on Linux :(
@@jonahbranch5625 YES. A vscode killer being mac-only is just stupid
@@jonahbranch5625 Linux is on the roadmap immediately after plugins
@@anarcuswell. To be honest most software starts on a single platform.
As I understand it then the Linux and Windows support is on the top of the list. However it so soooo much simpler to just debug one system while you are working on the kinks and still deciding on the API. so almost all software starts in the beginning phase in one OS and it’s best that it is the OS that the devs happen to be running. However the way they are designing this then it does not rely on the native UI framework so porting is simpler. If it was meant to be macos only nobody in their right mind would design their own rendering system. They would just use SwiftUI and would be much further along.
This video shows they need more people trying it out and creating issues.
Awesome to see Nathan finally put out his text editor 🔥 . I remember talking to him about this and other stuff he wanted to do back in the day. I wonder if we’ll see some CRDTs powering collaboration coming from them soon 🤔
I really appreciate any company going the extra mile to build something with user experience in mind. Anybody can build a product, to make the product useful and user friendly takes a whole other level of dedication. Great job Zed! I'll still be using vscode for github co-pilot, and also theres a setting I like in vsCode to always keep my cursor in the center of my screen so I never need to scroll.
The millisecond ZED is made for linux and if it's made for my distro which is fedora I would start using it right away. It looks amazing and the fact they care so much about fixing there app even going to your house to fix it really shows how much they care.
Catering to tech influences is how you make your app/startup successful nowadays.
Just use vim. Much better than this.
Seeing the amount of mac specific optimizations that they're doing I think it will take a long time before a Linux or windows version
@@brunopanizziThere is a lot more to an editor than the rendering pipeline.
Also like why?
What's so wrong with the IDEs that we currently have to experience this urge to change, people used to be concerned with the code that they wrote, now they are more concerned with the editor that they use.
I personally, drive code for general purpose stuff paired with rider, i do have my emacs for nostalgia but at the end of the day, just use whatever works, why would i waste time on something experimental at best...
11:20 is a closure, the JavaScript equivalent would be something like this: handle.update(cx, (_, cx) => cx.present()).log_err();
yep, plus the &mut just means that cx is a reference that update method is allowed to mutate, which in JS is the defaul behavior, while in Rust, it is explicitly stated by the developer, which is MUCH better. You don't want a function to mutate your variable? Just don't use &mut, use &. In JS/TS, good luck with that maybe Object.freeze? But then you can't mutate your variable either
I wish Rust used parentheses instead of pipes for closures. It is potentially my biggest gripe with its syntax.
@@MrMudbillparenthesis are for tuples
@@LetrixAR Parentheses are for more than just one thing. Are you saying it would be ambiguous in this context?
@@MrMudbill I maybe a newbie but I think that all languages can understand the context in which () are used in the syntax and rust could have very well done the same
11:21, makes complete sense when you use rust.
&mut cx (pass a mutable pointer cx), |_, cx| cx.present() is just a closure (like a lambda).
Probably seems counter intuitive because you don't use rust syntax but if you do rust it is.
I haven't ever done anything in rust and it made sense to me, I understand the borrow system so &mut x isn't confusing, the second part naturally looks like an anonymous function (in this case a closure). I don't get what is too confusing about that.
tried it again and it runs so much smoother on the pro-motion. thanks theo
This is a good freakin solution, what fun blog post and hella nerdy I love it.
Really want them to add more Vi keybindings. Some commonly used commands don't work. Also a debug mode.
No, they should just support NeoVim's protocol. NeoVim allows other editors to connect to it which means you can get all Vim features including plugins and configuration in another editor. No weird incompatibilty, no missing features, and the same performance. I think Sublime Text has support for that already.
@@SaHaRaSquad That's only in theory. All implementations of embedding neovim eventually run into edge scenarios where you have undefined behaviors because you have effectively two text editors trying to interoperate and for sanity's sake you have to make executive decisions on when to override neovim. Some terminal rendering tricks also will fail to work outside the terminal.
Did anyone else, but me notice the very Apparent flickering in Zed Editor? (very easy seen at the bottom bar of the editor) 12:14
I also checked Theo's last video and it wasn't there...
Watching on a 240hz Display (1080p) and on a 120hz Display (Also 1080p), (Tested video resolutions 4k - 720p) and can still see the flickering.
Im wondering if this is due to the recent changes, or if Zed is running so fast the Recording software isn't "keeping up", or if it might also be some artifact introduced from CZcams from its video compression algo...
"vScODe KilLeR", i know its clickbait to call it that but it really isnt a vscode killer is it. its a mac only editor.. you can't kill competition when you dont compete at the same level
That's the sad truth🤧, i want to try zed.
No way its killing vscode. The barebone "engine" is not what makes vscode #1, rather its vast ecosystem. Vscode's "backend" already runs as separate nodejs process. Technically it is possible to put js/logic part of "frontend" in a standalone js engine and do the drawing part using native gui libraries. MSFT certainly has the resources, they can probably take parts from existing techs too, like hermes/react-native.
@@thegittubaba Thanks for putting into words every reason to hate VSC
Of course, it's a desperate plea from Theo to want to promote softwares that compete with VSCode, but the fact that Zed is limited to Mac only makes it a 💩.
It's as if Microsoft launched the "AWS killer" only with services based on the Windows system. 💩
I love Theo but this "advertisement" makes me not interested in this text editor.
@@foot8036 very small margin of people develop professionally on windows.
11:20 this:
|a, b| a + b
is a closure in Rust. the _ means that it doesn't care what the argument's value is.
What you were seeing was them passing a value, then a closure to the update function.
I personally would do this:
handle
.update(&mut cx, |_, cx| cx.present())
.log_err();
so that it would be slightly more readable, though it still requires some understanding of the syntax.
handle
.update(&mut cx, |_, cx| cx.present())
.log_err();
This anything but readable.
I dont think it requires much understanding of the syntax many languages support anonymous functions, _ is a typical convention of I dont care what this particular thing is.
I don't think splitting lines makes it any easier or harder to read, if you exceed 80 or 100 characters then it can go on the next line (since rust has the error handling I see why its a standard in rust though since almost everything gets chained with .unwrap(), .unrwap_or_else() etc)
Supporting both X11 and Wayland on Linux is just a matter of using the winit crate, Which already works very well on both platforms. Once you have the initial window initialization code, the rendering is mostly a Linux-wide problem that can be done either in OpenGL or Vulkan.
And this would also get the editor on Windows with WSL2
Will try it once they add Wayland support.
RIP VSCode? I don't think so, not when I have to shell out for a Mac just to use the competition.
This is a PoC Mac thing. Since the team is small now it is limited. When the thing gets big on Mac it might be the right time to start building for others.
@@shauniop We're all well aware of that, just can't start using it until that happens because there's vanishingly little need to fork out for a mac just to write code.
@@TimBell87with M1 being so cheap. I think it isn't a bad deal. I code on a Mac all day so could be my bias.
@@shauniop Maybe it's cheap for a mac but I just did a quick search and they're charging refurbished prices for a 13 inch M1 macbook air that are about the same as what I spent on my whole programming rig brand new.
@@shauniop There's no such thing as a "cheap M1."
As of Zed, their work on Linux support goes really great. Initial supporting bits are there. Check their repo, you would be shook :D
now you've convinced me to try zed and seems nice!
IMHO I need three killer features to do the switch:
- split view terminals
- images support
- draw-io support
(oh, zed team, please turn off the format on save by default)
Yeah split view terminal und images would be great
Right now I'm happily addicted to editing my Neovim config, but I do have Zed installed and have been trying it out periodically. Maybe if/when it ever gets a mature plugin ecosystem I'll make the switch!
POG See this is the kind of fun story I love. It does happen in engineering its the best part, building friends and community.
11:20 its a func that takes in a mutable ref of cx and has a closure
now I wanna try zed. I just wonder how it will run on my M3pro if he washing issues at first on M2
Well, exactly because different platforms render differently I always use a cross-platform toolkit to make graphical apps. At first I made them with TkInter in Python3 (but that looks like Win9x) and later I made some little things with PyGTK. When I figure out Java I'll try to use Qt, because that is at least X11+Wayland compatible, but I don't know if it's also Window$ and MacOS compatible.
I am working on an application between VSCode and Zed. Zed is growing on me and as I told an Alex on Twitter the other day, Zed has been helping me stay focused on my code and not feel so distracted like VSCode.
Guys, the Zed editor has such a nice default colorscheme. Does it have a name/palette/any info about it?
It's OneDark, which was the default theme of Atom editor.
This is obviuously sponsored. No one just drops everything and troubleshoot it on your local device.
I recognised the Rust closure in 11:18 because it kind of looks like a Ruby closure 😄
BTW I don't know if that's a Rust closure or lambda but I'm betting it is.
You are correct!
yup, the variable refresh rate strikes in unexpected ways. I once enabled nvidia gsync for "all" applications, suddenly when working in windows terminal my mouse pointer movement started to feel very sluggish. After debugging a bit I discovered terminals caret blinking is a 40fps animation. So when terminal had focus, gsync was setting my 170Hz monitor's refresh rate to 40 -_-. Had to change setting in nvidia to only enable gsync for fullscreen applications.
I admire this type of deep knowledge,great products demand it and it`s rare.
This video reminded me I still need to try Zed. :)
Didn't work on my first project I tried. It doesn't seem to support clojure even though I have all the necessary LSP setup.
@11:21 - There's a difference between something being inherently confusing and something being unfamiliar. You can definitely write ugly code in rust, but that is very simple and elegant rust code. It just doesn't look like JavaScript/TypeScript.
handle
.update(&mut cx, |_, cx| cx.present())
.log_err();
You mean this beauty ?
Such an elegant language, you can have 4 different types of operators on the same line, accessing same object twice...like it's almost like writing English if you think about it. Also, you log_err because you either too edgy to use log or too lazy to finish the error, but still make it punchy enough to make it a pedantic nightmare to read.
Not my code btw, stole that from comment up top.
@@justanaveragebalkan The only operator on that line is the borrow operator: &. The fact that you see 4 operators kind of proves my point - it's hard to read because you don't know how the langauge. Equivalent JS:
handle
.update(cx, (_, cx) => cx.present())
.log_err();
How is this syntactically easier/better? The only language difference is explicitly marking the first parameter value mutable and borrowed.
Tell me how the => is "more like english."
@@hobbit125
So '|' '_' are not operators? Didn't know bitwise or was not considered an operator these days. As well as the underscore expression operator defiantly not a thing.
And yes, from a human point of view arrow makes more sense as a vector to something else.
@@justanaveragebalkan no. | in this context is not a bitwise or. It is a delimiter for lambda arguments. And _ is not an operator. It is an ignored/unused argument. Like I said, your problem reading this is unfamiliarity, not inherent complexity. You know JavaScript, so you think that it is the "natural" syntax.
11:23 Thats a closure! I am getting good enough at rust to recognize it. Sweet.
It is interesting - Arc Browser did Mac first and now getting closer to releasing a Windows version written using Swift. It will be interesting to see whether Rust or Swift turns out to be a better option. Or maybe neither will be much better than the other and we will just have more options going forward for cross-platform. Kotlin Multi Platform is pushing in this direction as well and JetPack Compose is moving beyond just Android UI. It would be cool to see Apple open-source and cross-platform SwiftUI.
One shortcut I haven't been able to find is the Organise imports shortcut that I like using. Not sure if its in Zed haven't found it yet :(
I like your magic words, tech man.
11:13 Took me a while to get used to |x| {...} as the syntax for a closure, and _ as the discard name, but honestly just works for me now. I do agree it was very confusing when I was first learning it though!
I like it. After testing a few minutes I changed my alias from `alias ed=code` to `alias ed=zed`
(After being forced to switch from atom to vscode, and being annoyed that I kept launching atom from the shell by habit all the time. I decided I would make a generic alias and get used to that rather than the new editor, so whenever vscode becomes too slow (or evil) I can just change the alias. I chose "ed" because its the shortest meaningful abbreviation for editor; and I will never use the ancient line editor named ed anyway.)
It's really nice to use a graphical editor with a tree view, that feels native again... And it comes with everything I have plugins for in vscode that I care about by default, and it even comes with the same key mapping for the editor too, so there's basically no adjustment for me to use it.
And to untrain my muscle memory to write ed instead of atom, I had an alias:
`alias atom=echo "No, you use the alias ed now..."`
I also have a completely illogical alias "ac" for whatever code oriented grep alternative I'm using. It originated from when I used ack on Ubuntu where the command was "ack-grep" which was way longer than I was bothered to type, and once I was used to that, I discovered "ag" and found I kept using the old ac alias so I just changed the alias; it's more or less a faster drop in replacement. And now it points to ripgrep.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but why do apps have any kind of frame limiting to begin with? I get that they're using GPU-based rendering / compositing to display the UI, but many video games run without a framerate cap. Or was the issue that Zed just ran too slowly to reach above 60fps?
Wow that scroll is smooth as butter…
This is awesome, maybe in a not so far distant future we will have a Rust GUI building blocks for every platform. Like an electron, but infinity better, and much more performant
I have used Zed every day since i found out about it. I like it a lot but obviously it's missing a lot of key features, but it feels great to use
Neovim
^
neovim is trash!
This is the reason why we get memed on a lot
Grass?
I use neovim. I just like IDE's for coding as I can see my code excuted faster but I use neovim as my default text editor for my terminal.
Had Zed installed for over a year now, I like using it in smaller amounts, but extensions like custom theming and file icons are still holding me back
Does it require more power/energy to operate at 120hz constantly?
Not sure that something I particularly care about in code editor.
On linux, it's fine to do Wayland only these days. But it's a pain to pick the protocols that you want to use and get it working in Gnome vs KDE vs every other compositor. :)
11:23 I don't know Rust, but I'll take a wild guess as to what those symbols mean (the pipe and underscore): a closure, with the first argument ignored. The body of the closure is after the second pipe.
Seeing how much work put into it makes me realize, why there will never be a Rust version of VSCode (for every language and every platform)
I feel completely fine about this not coming to Linux any time soon. Hope it becomes a great success on Mac and then the team finds time to dedicate to Linux. Seems like a great proposition to have a VSCode-like editor that performs better, if the momentum and ecosystem can build up around it. Until then we have IntelliJ, Helix, Neovim, VSCode, and Sublime Text... They each have upsides and downsides, but there is no need to jump on the latest market entry too soon, just wish them well and wait.
Cool. BUT, what about their support for plugins? AI chat box to assist in programming?
I tried Zed and was disappointed. Too many things missing. Then I did a really dumb thing and tried to use GPUI, the underpinning of Zed. Holy hell. I will try both when they’re done baking, but I’m excited for what’s to come.
I'm confused why you think that line of rust is so confusing.
The equivalent JS line is
```
handle.update(cx, (_, cx) => cx.present()).log_err()
```
The main difference from JavaScript is that instead of `(args...) => body` rust does `|args...| body` and there's an additional `&mut` which is necessary because in rust the default behavior when passing a variable to a function is a deep copy. (`&` is the a readonly version which is why they passed a `&mut` here)
VS code has huge community based very useful extensions and themes... and it requires huge community support to keep them alive.
Interesting to see, how ZED will plan and complete with that in long term.
I was testing it out, and it kept screwing up my js/html when it saved by auto indenting stuff that it shouldnt and adding end tags to things that shouldnt have them... switched back to vscodium just to complete my js class assignment
Isn’t the code formatter set to format on save? Just disable that. You can even to that per language
Also it is only for Mac. I'm using Linux and Windows. I do have a M3 Mac Book Pro 14' but its for travel and visiting family. I need to be able to use the same code editor across all platforms. Bummer.
Yeah it’s just simpler to begin in one OS. But the architecture screams multiplatform. If they were truly macos only they would be much further along.
How many followers and subscribers do we need to get a feature request for Zed looked at?
Very nice! It's only natural, as a new developer (developers are always new, unless they want to be retro) to want to try this out, and to look into the fixes as well. These hacks need to be part of the GUI/window-rendering tool kit. Not something that needs to be re-engineered for every app. And also on each platform, the development ought to be simpler. A GPU tool kit for Linux would be nice, if it can manage its resources and free up devices when they aren't being used.
Going from Web development to Swift & Metal, you _really_ miss having docs.
Okay. Seems fun. Will wait for Linux release with, at least, most of the basic IDE features and extension support.
Literally waiting for a MR that adds Dart support, so I can try it for my day-to-day. If that goes well, it will be my personal editor also.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but did these problems arise from them using their own rendering implementation? Doesn’t that make this a case of you decide to sidestep the official way of doing things, you get to fix all the weird shit that results from that? Not being antagonistic, just curious
03:17 web stuff is documented really well (mdn and w3c spec exist) except browser specific behaviours
I tried Zed. First impression was not compelling. No settings screen makes configuring it hard enough that I could not get it to where I wanted it (ligatures, Fira code or similar font. I think it re-indented one file before I could change the default indent level. I never got the colors where I was ok with it. And, the final straw was lack of rust analyzer to run individual tests. Once it is more mature and hopefully has a plug in system to allow things like cucumber support, I will try it again.
11:25 "rust brain people" I am using that from now :)
Well, for wayland these exact issues they are facing are solved by the compositor, always.
I would absolutely love to try Zed, it looks great! Unfortunately, I use Windows because I'm primarily a game developer.
I'm using in a daily basis it actually made coding smooth again, super happy.
As long as it's Mac only, it's not going to "kill" anything any time soon.
When will plugin support be added?
Cause I reaaaaally need my plugins :(
I think never
Can I ask how do you debug in Zed?
I hate undocumented or hard to find stuff, for example in AvaloniaUI I had a scrollable list of items, and I wanted to add an image to them which was a delete icon you could click, but as soon as I just added to the XAML it would scroll with like 5 FPS and I couldn't fix it so I just had to use Buttons with text instead
Seems to be smooth on my M1 Pro, although Zed uses more than double the CPU while scrolling a large file, like the package-lock.json, when compared to VS Code.
Also seems to have a larger memory footprint than VS Code
I'm still going to wait until zed has a plugin ecosystem probably, but it seems extremely promising.
Interesting effort but still thinking, why 120FPS? Does it make me code 200% faster?
You can read text while scrolling
@t3dotgg that's a good point; In a long file I'll miss things while scrolling.
Interesting point. But my my second question will be, can it run Crysis, hahaha? @@t3dotgg
lovely, ZFS Event Daemon on Arch is named Zed, bc ofc it is. Time to compile from source and rename to Zad, or Zedd. idk. lol.
That's the same thing Ubuntu was doing on the very beginning. That's a very very nice thing to do
Nice and all, but when I tried searching in a really huge text file (20MB) using Zed, it searched after every keystroke, and the whole app froze. :) You can imagine when it found all the occurrences of 'e' and highlighted it in the editor. Force closed it after couple of minutes.
The Zed team is in it to win it. WOW.
The only thing I'm missing at the moment with zed is support for some languages like Astro or Prisma and the addition of plugins. Other than that it's a great editor
I think both of these things landed last week!
bro is in history now
In the middle of the night, in the middle of the night
Just call my Zed, I'm yours to fix the scroll issue.
They draw whole thing on low level using their own rendering engine so that is something to be expected to happen sooner or later. Versus vscode drawing in chromium (i believe) browser which is pretty mature and has alot of testing and wide user and device base. Anyways new vscode-like editor is always a good thing
I might be missing something, but why does a code editor need to run at 120fps? It's basically just a fancy text editor, right?
For seeing the code while scrolling. When looking for a specific function for example.
It’s just a “nice to have” thing.
Intellij IDEA FTW!
Vim users: *Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power*
i live for the cat cameo
He’s a good boy (sometimes)
streamer privilege engaged...
you say that, however because this was brought up by theo that means the UX has been made better for everyone
no way you're actually mad about that LOL
You know a program is good when their bugfixes are done in person
We all know that code will be written in rust shortly lol 😂
I love the dedication and work from the Zed team though
Glad they are increasing competition in this space
Honestly; I like ZED but due to the lack of flexibility (atleast when I tried), am not sure if am ready yet to use ZED. There is a few reasons;
I can't say good bye to the extensions that VS has to offer like:
- GITLens;
- TODO manager
- Console Ninja
- AWS
- AWS CodeWhisperer
- Or what about all the code snippets
- Prisma manager
I mean, maybe am lacking the knowledge of Zed that it is already available, but if it is, am happy to give it another try but at the moment it does not really benefit besides the clean GUI, fast response and almost no crashes :)
Really want to see it in action
Why not, i'll give it a shot
Antonio grinding for that stock payout.
If you are only on apple hardware then it makes sense to try out Zed. But VScode still has the upperhand in 2 areas: It is cross platform and it has a large library of extensions. Being locked into 1 platform makes it a lot more difficult to beat a different tool. Zed might beat VScode for Mac users, but it (currently) has no chance for windows or linux users. I said the same thing about StyleX vs tailwind. StyleX is Javascript only, whereas tailwind works everywhere.
PS: "They have really high refresh rates. Like all the Ipad pro's have 120 Hz". Me on my 240Hz windows laptop go BRRRRRR!!!!
anyone know how we enable that benchmark thing on 1:18?
At some point in the post they mention that activation
What browser are you using?
Cool to see!