That Time When Dave Smith Made a Yamaha Synth: Yamaha SY35 (Budget Prophet VS?)
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- Today we're taking a look at a strange piece of synthesizer history. Let us know what you think!
0:00 Intro/Specs
5:42 Demos
16:06 Final Thoughts
18:14 A Message on Dave Smith
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I didn't know... a year later.
Shoutout to you Dave in Heaven.
The SY22 was my first real synth and I bought it intentionally, had to save long to bring that 2000 DM together. So of course I very much went into detail, sure, there are some thing you've left out. When I bought it, the only competing Synths in the Price range were the Kawai K4, the U20 (which wasnt a real synth), the SY55 for 1000 more.. well that's basically it, the D10 already was outdated. At that time the samples were pretty good actually, the Piano e.g. sounded way better than on the SY55 even and better than on the K4. But also strings, etc. they might sound cheesy today but if you compare it to the D-50 which was still a lot more expensive then these sounds were pretty realistic and don't forget a lot of us kids went after sounding realistic (hence the M1 was so popular but again double the price! - and the piano on that also was worse than on the 22).
I actually do like the 22 better than the 35, especially the lofi samples gave a lot character to it. Also the idea was cool that similar to the D-50 /LA-Synthesis as others mentioned, you could support shorter Samples by FM-Waves. As you have four Elements, there's a lot to combine. Some other things worth mentioning:
- The Programming is very easy. Each Element has Envelope, LFO, tracking parameters, in case of FM also Modulation and Feedback Level, also Velocity and Aftertouch so already inside a voice you can do Layering or splits.
- Very important: The Vector could be used either for level or detune making it very easy to get crazy with pitch as well of fatten up sounds. But the real clue of it was you could sequence the stick, edit it afterwards or even loop them.
- That was also helpful when using the Performance mode. Better than in the SY 77/55, the Performance Mode was like Combinations in the M1. You could organize up to 8 voices in a performance, either on several channels to get multimode, or spread them across the keyboard. This was still luxurious at the time, as said, the 55 couldn't do that. Their performances were only multimode through midi. Now in the Performance mode, the vectorstick wasn't functioning. But if you recorded it in your voices, that worked.
- Dynamic Voice allocation made it possible to use it as a multitimbral sound source. 16 voices were only possible for 2 element voices, 4 elements needed 8. But thanks to DVA you could use several of them in a song in the same time without too much of voice stealing.
- An important part of the sound were the actual samples. Opposed to the 77, the 22 had lots of noises goofy stuff like breaking glass and even loops like in the D-50. These combined with the vector synthesis made interesting soundscapes possible, which your presets didn't seem to cover well. They also usually work only when you hold the keys longer.
- It had drums! A sample with 61 percussion sounds on it. And at that time people wanted drums in their synths coz they were fun and drumcomputers outdated.
Things that rather sucked were indeed the missing filter. But Yamaha at the time (along with Kawai) were the first to have a really good digital filter with resonance on the SY55/77, which was brand new. So for that entry level synth it wasn't obtainable. Another thing: these rubber button used to get out of business too soon.
Maybe that's another thing worth mentioning: Opposed the american brands, Roland and Yamaha (later Korg as well) always made sure to have several lines of synths. There were Top models (DX7/SY77), Super top models (DX1/5, SY99), Middle models (DX11, SY55), and entry models (DX100/21, SY22/35), making it eaasier for starter to get on the train. Also a reason these japanese companies were so much more successful.
What an excellent synopsis and spot on. I was more of a Korg fanboy at the time and must agree that the Japanese synth companies really knew how to milk their technology down to the lowest common denominator!
I owned an SY22 back in 1990, and have recently acquired an SY35 as I had greatly enjoyed it. Thanks for the video!
However, this synth is super easy to program! iIt even has a patch randomiser, and a unique feature I’ve not seen on any other synths is ‘preset envelopes’: it has standard envelope shapes for bell, piano, guitar, strings and organ - but you can still tweak the full ADSR parameters later if you want.
I've seen some synths that have an organ and a "pluck" preset envelope as separate options on the switch that also goes into ADSR mode (which are great for quickly flicking-into without losing your meticulously-tweaked ADSR envelope), but having those more granular presets sounds pretty sweet!
Rip Dave Smith 🥲
This was my first Synthesizer.I got mine in 1999 and still love this. I used this machine for live and this is still used in my studio next to all my Roland stuff and tons of software. The SY-35 still has its placein my setup.I didn´t know about Dave Smith, thanks for that.
If you want patches for Yamaha SY22/35/TG33 you can go on my video "Yamaha TG33 (SY22/SY35) Patch Bliter " And download the archive in the info bar, and it is free ;-)
Where can i buy the card for the sy22?because the saved patches within the keyboard will be lost after a while without power supply fed.
@@lanmichaelmix2818 You'll need to change the SY22's battery. Memory cards are available on the Sector 101 website.
@@lanmichaelmix2818 You'll need to change the SY22's battery. Memory cards are available on the Sector 101 website.
The Sy35 can record the movements of the vector joystick and loop it for rhythmic/pulsing sounds. I believe you can control the speed as well but it's been about 25 years so..., :)
I have one of these. Bought it brand new in 93. No idea dave smith was involved. Also got an ob6 also... guess I have an acquired taste for dsi and didn't even know it lol
A blast from the past! I wrote a patch editor/librarian for this on my Amiga. I discovered the SysEx contained hidden FM parameters.
there are still editors around today that use those parameters as well
@@thehimer3903 Nice! Maybe they even used the midi spec I reverse engineered and shared on “sy-list” back in the 90s.
Thanks, great video! In 1993 I sold all my gear (Casio CT-670, Roland U-110, Roland D-110) and bought this one. I really liked it, but unfortunately the keyboard started to fail (2 keys started to get stuck) after about 3 years. I tried to repair it, but it used a cheap rubber membrane (the kind that's used in calculators). It has a very special lush full sound and is great for pads. The multi-mode made it also a good choice for (not too complex) MIDI. Too bad I don't have it anymore - I acquired the TG33 instead, and I am going to hold on to it! IMHO, the TG33 / SY-22 is more desirable though, because of 12 Bit AWM instead of the 35's 16 Bit. It sounds more smokey and lo-fi.
I got one of these a few years ago. Was both impressed and laughing when I went through the sounds/waveforms. Definitely a mixed bag, and also a lot of thin ROMpler sounds. Unfortunately I haven’t spent much time programming it, but I’m still convinced that it has potential. I think it probably has more in common with the Wavestation than the VS.
I have the tg33 that was by far the best vector synth they did..it has multiple outputs and did more than the others.
You should try get one and showcase it
Indeed! Happy owner of a TG33 here for over 20 years. 32-note polyphony instead of 16-voices on the SY22 & SY35.
Love my TG33 as well
I still use my SY22 for Ambient sounds. I love the Vector motion rides.
SY was a confused series. (Like how Roland D series was so diverse sometimes unrelated) SY77 and 99 with awm+afm, SY22 and SY35 being vector synths, SY85 being a rompler.. they might as well as called this VS or VX35.. the best of Dave smith freelance engineering back then was reserved for the Korg wavestation..
9:27 definitely sounded like aftertouch kicking in. Really nice sounding instrument.
I have an SY22 - still great and easy to programme.
My first keyboard I bought at Sam ash for 750.00. I won’t be parting with it anytime soon. Great review!
Zach, a bit of synchronicity - bought one a few days ago and it arrived today. Then I see this video dropping today. Anyway, concur that this is a quality bit of 90’s gear. It’s useful if you’re into that era of synth sound, and feels surprisingly fresh if you avoid the obvious rompler patches (pianos, guitars, winds, etc.). Best for strings, pads, grasslike stuff. Recommend removal of the janky SPX built in reverb to expose some nice clean hybrid FM sounds.
Excellent..!! I got this since 2019 and i was playing more and i think iit is complementary with a D 50 that i have bought recently.. not so complex, but complementary in sound palettes.
Thanks so much for this information!
Where does each of them excel at?
the aftertouch also comes very handy, I use it sometimes to control my MO6 ... posted a video of it on my channel
Very nice 👌
OMG AMAZING
Sorry, Dave Smith said in an interview, he had nothing to do with the development of the Yamaha SY22 or SY35. Yamaha just used the (vector) stick concept, very similar to the Roland D-50 or Kawai K1. But the Yamaha allowed the moves to be recorded in a patch.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the 4op Vs 6op thing with FM. It's all in the implementation. For instance the. 6op DX7 was always going to sound better than a 4op DX27, but once you start layering 4op sounds and using different waveforms it becomes a whole different thing.
Meant kindly!
But the joystick is not a mixer for whipping cream!🤪
You should operate it slowly and with feeling!
You can also layer up to 8 sounds on top of each other!
Aftertouch can also morph the sounds!
Take the time to really get to know the instrument!
It is worth it!. 😇
Moby brought me here.
I agree its a really good synth just to play, however if you can get hold of an editor for it, the sy35 really moves into another territory, its pretty fantastic and unique even though it looks like a toy.
And how do I get hold of an editor?
Have one atop my Nord Electro 2 which it compliments so well in my studio. Oddly I'm almost positive mine's a 1988 so maybe it's an early demo model?
Even though at the time Yamaha synth chips lacked resonant filters, these machines still sounded pretty good. A vector morph of resonant type waves was the closest you could get to a resonant filter sweep. Korg was using Yamaha chips back then so their M, T, 01 series synths all lacked the resonant filter as well. Even with out that, I still use my TG-33. It's string waves and phaser effects can pull off a very convincing Solina, and being multi-timbral, you can hook up an MPE controller like a Roli and morph the vector on the key Y-axis for poly AT performances.
Wavestation weak spot is lack of resonant filter. What a shame as it has the VS waves.
Strange it doesn't have a filter. I know FM can get similar results of the filter, but how does it do it for the AWM2 sounds?
I played with a Prophet VS in a music store when it was new. I thought it was interesting, but didn’t really ‘wow’ me in any way. I think vector synthesis is something I thought was OK as a feature, but not to totally base a synth on.
The lack of popularity of this synth isn't that surprising to me. What you get is a 2 op fm synth combined with a digital subtractive synth with no filter. I imagine the vast majority of synth players would prefer to have a good fm synth and a subtractive synth with a filter. This would only appeal to players who wanted both but couldn't afford both and were willing to accept some extreme compromises for a 2 in 1 synth. Cool synth line but it seems kinda misjudged. Maybe the bigger, later ones (sy99) gave you a good 2 for 1 deal but this is more like two half synths for the price of one and I can understand why many players didn't want it.
I would have taken any of these synths back in the 80ties and early 90ties, but I lacked the money.
After hearing you play, I think this machine needs a 64 step sequencer to shine.
What about the Japanese designers? I never hear their names. It’s always Dave smith lol. I briefly read about the ones that designed Roland Juno chorus circuit (which has been copied since). These Japanese are very reclusive and don’t like to hog the limelight.
I remember when they came out and one of the things I read in keyboard magazine was that it was hard to program or it was like rocket science, to which you mentioned that . I did acquire an SY55 Yamaha and that was part of that series . I have that in my basement
I had a SY55 when they came out. Later I bought a TG33. I always thought the TG was very limited and the FM part was truly basic. Electric pianos have nothing to do with a DX and drum sounds were pretty basic. The SY55 was a much more interesting machine in my opinion.
You forgot to mention before Yamaha SY-35 (and before SY-22) Dave Smith's Research team participated in development of famous KORG WaveStation. Which essentially is Prophet VS in the shape of KORG M1 (sort of). Yamaha at that time was big shareholder of KORG and provided Dave's team to KORG to help to develop WaveStation. So, in general all of these were based on Prophet VS just every next synth was a cheaper version of previous one: Prophet VS -> Korg WaveStation -> Yamaha SY-22 -> Yamaha SY-35.
That is untrue. The Yamaha SY 35 has pristine 16 bit samples, more memory and a better DA convertor compared to the cheap noisy 12 bit sound of the SY22. The Wavestation is not essentially a Prophet VS, and sounds nothing like a Korg M1.
@@TheMagiAlexander I didn't mean Wavestation sounds like KORG M1. I mean the look (i.e. the case) is more like M1 rather than like Prophet VS.
@@DmitryGorbushin you mentioned the Wavestation is essentially a Prophet vs which it intrinsically is not, while one’s follow up comment is an overstatement as most of Korgs synthesisers or workstations of that era have extrinsically the same chassis. And I do recall this presenter mentioning Dave Smith’s association along with both Korg and Yamaha.
I tried that one out and just hated it. I could barely get $200 for it. It's fine as a cheap midi keyboard with some sounds built in for a beginner or "budget" performer. Yeah, the vector part seemed like a cool idea but ultimately, I got nothing out of it. The SY77 on the other hand is very nice. Unfortunately, it's also a nightmare to program but I found that one a bit more worth it.
To each his own, I have a sy77 video queued up for next week :)
@@asoundlab I look forward to it. They're always interesting. I actually have my Poly Evolver listed for sale and just rewatched that episode and now I'm having second thoughts and really need to try programming more sounds on it. I got it used and the previous owner made a lot of terrible patches all named "basic patch". Gotta clean that up. If you like the PEK you should dig into the Pro 2. I also just fell back in love with that one.
@@VincentPresley you should download the original patches too - there’s some good ones. I need to get a Rev 2, agreed!
@@asoundlab i have the SY77 Planning to sell it. But that doesnt keep me from checking that upcoming video out of course!
@@asoundlab The Prophet Rev 2 is cool but I was talking about the DSI Pro 2. The 4 osc paraphonic synth. It has a lot of weirdo similarities with the PEK. It takes some getting used to but so does the PEK.
Plastique Fantastique?
Sounds how I’d expect an early 90’s Yamaha to sound, thin and characterless. Not anything close to a Sequential product even if it had Dave’s imprint on it.
He didn't demo the best sounds it has which are the pads, strings, brass, bass, and organ.
Thin and characterless?
You must have beans in your ears!🤪
This instrument has the most fantastic pad sounds there is!
You can layer up to 8 of these sounds on top of each other!
No other synthesizer can create sounds like this 😁
Not the greatest machine indeed. The vector thing is a bit gimmicky, but If you want the atmosphere of nineties documentaries, this synth's got the sound. The FM part brings a bit of "warmth" (real FM chip, less clinical than modern emulations), and can be edited further with a freeware. It is a bit unusual to program, but not so complicated. You have single sounds (2 or 4 wave forms) which can also combined in multis. There's also a non editable drum kit.
The keybed is very good, with a sturdy feel, unlike most keyboards on modern synths and controllers. The onboard demo is so corny it will makes you smile.
This demo presents very well what I remember from early 1990s - the Yamaha SY series had a lot of flashy sounds, that were impressive at first listen, but proved not very practical in real life. It is not like with Korg or Roland synths of that time where you could use their timbres and adjust them to your needs (they were "musical" in that sense); with Yamaha you had to adjust yourself to their sounds. In the long run this was rather uncreative and after a while the whole thing didn't sound fresh at all but tiring. What I mean by "musical" is that when you use a physical instrument like cello, piano or guitar, you can play it in so many ways, developing your sound almost infinitely and it will adapt to multiple styles; with many synthesizers it is the opposite: you are perhaps first fascinated with the newness of the sound, but soon find that no matter how you play, the effect is very similar and there is not much space for creativity. For me Yamaha SY is a perfect example of this problem.
Crappy synth. The samples are worthless and the FM-engine is only preset. Plus it lacks a chorus effect.
It's nice for some extra sounds, but I would't want it to be my only keyboard.
strangely terrible