Honda's 2000 Team - The Honda That Never Was
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- The Mobile Chicane Restaurant finally throws open its doors to serve up a tasty tale of the Honda RA099; a car that could've been Honda's first F1 car in over 30 years.
We also reflect on the career of a current F1 driver's father, and audibly struggle to pronounce 'schl' and 'thw' sounds.
Facebook: / themobilechicanepage
Instagram: / themobilechicane
Twitter: / mobilechicaneyt
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:54 A History of Honda in F1
7:06 Honda Start Making Plans
7:54 A Summary of Harvey Postlethwaite
9:44 An Overview of Jos Verstappen
13:17 Honda Go Testing
14:55 The Honda Dream Unravels
16:25 An Epilogue of Honda and Verstappen
18:31 Conclusion
I KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE TYRRELL NOW
🤣🤣🤣
Getting one wrong increases your engagement, don't knock it! But yeah, that did stand out a bit. Good stuff though.
Good - now you can work on "Mugen" and "Ligier".
Tirell?
Had you watched the movie Blade Runner in order to use that pronounciation?
Mobile Chicane's CZcams Career so far: 3 Starts. 3 wins. Love these. This car is probably the epitome of 1990's F1 car design. It's so perfect in every way.
Thank you so much! What a great comment. This last win might currently be under investigation from the stewards for overtaking under yellows.
@@TheMobileChicane it's a little masturbatory to congratulate yourself like this, isn't it?
You have a good narration style btw. Other good stories to cover would be:
1) McLambo
2) Honda working as engine consultants to Ferrari in 1993
3) The Lotus active suspension program
4) The perennial squandering of Ligier and Prost.
5) 39 entrants in 1989 and the general backmarker bandit era of 1988-1992 ish.
6) Turbo fuel tricks - toluene/fuel cooling towers etc
7) Senna’s Indy test
8) John Barnard’s semi auto gearbox
9) The Ferrari 2019 engine scandal
10) March/Leyton House/Newey what if…
Some interesting topic ideas there, I'll take some notes!
Honda as engine consultants 😮😮
@@jt-hb8lh yep…made them drop their five valves per cylinder failure and basically build a more developed 1992 Honda V12…
Hope you watched the Prost video op!
@@waynekerr67 I did and did wonder if it was as a result of the above. Was a good video either way…
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a channel so criminally under-subscribed
Aha, thank you Jessica! Very kind of you to say.
In a way, Max got to have what his dad came so close to having, the chance to be a lead driver for a team that has a sort of works partnership with Honda, and he won a championship with them.
Very true - Verstappen and Honda got their success after all!
Jos Verstappen had insane amount of bad luck in his career and that was really useful when he was guiding Max, making sure no same mistakes would be repeated/would happen.
and the fact in very end, Max won his first title with Honda powered car, serves as perfect end to this story sort of.
This comment made me cringe
Jos Verstappen was an unreliable midfield driver, who occasionally got it together enough to have the odd good race. If the Honda team had got anywhere, they would have replaced him with someone better.
There's an odd tendancy these days to reappraise Verstappen snr's career and cast him as some form of "proto-Max", rather than assess him honestly, which I suspect was started by Jos Verstappen.
@MPG I watched his entire F1 career, and I can assure you that he wasn't.
Tyrrell rhymes with Squirrel.
The Red Bull RB16C feels like the spiritual successor to the Honda RA099, everything clicked and reached the heights that Honda dreamed of during the 90s. Very poetic.
This guy deserves a lot more subs than some of the big name f1 channels.
Thanks Alfie!
FINALLY someone who tells the true story of Jos. So many people who don't care or know what kind of driver he was after his Benetton-fiasco. Jos experienced so much scams, poverty and unreliability in his F1 career that he was the perfect rolemodel for Max on how NOT to go for endless promises and teams that will dump a driver as soon as they can get a few extra dollars so they won't be bankrupt the next race. This project was very promising and i'm glad that Jos had the opportunity to test a decent car & dito engine and to be part of a team that stood behind him and believed in him.
Glad you enjoyed the video Dan!
I think it mainly has to do with how much of a POS person Jos Verstappen is... Would he have been a nicer character, everyone would endlessly defend him, much like drivers as Vandoorne nowadays.
Even in the Dutch community he doesn't receive a lot of support. Despite him having a large fan base back then, he's now only known as "grindbak Jos" or "Graveltrap Jos" for non-Dutch speakers. He had a pretty decent 2001 season in the Arrows, despite the fundamental issues the car had. There's a great Dutch season summary here on CZcams from RTLGP which goes race-by-race interviewing him and explaining each GP.
Even though he doesn't get the credit he deserves, some other actions outside his on-track ones really puts a dent in his legacy.
@@yoshikempenaers8621 The people who call him "Grindbak Jos" are the ones who heard about that back then and never did the research about the "why". Dumped in the 1994 season as a racedriver, instead of a reserve and not really getting the chance to really know the car and setting it up properly. Combined with the pressure of Briatore, and a teammate who was in the middle of winning a championship, he made too many misstakes as a rookie. I don't blame him for that.
As to the person: I heard all about all sorts of things, but we were never there, so we never know what's true and what's not. A good example was when Jos denied to sign a painting for a boy, which presented by a Rob Kamphues back then. I thought he was a POS too back then. But when i heard the other side years later, that Jos was in the middle of testing, his manager did not tell him everything, and that Kamphues just came out of nowhere, i can understand that side too.
Jos not congratulating Checo after his win is also such a thing: broadly publicized by many YT channels and even normal TV-channels, Jos in Fact DID congratulate Checo sometime before that shot, which was broadcasted by Ziggo.
Two sides of a story,, unlucky situations, and bad career moves makes Jos an easy target for some people.
@@sgthulk9 I trust you were present and personally witnessed all the situations people have wrong and you have explained? Because as you so rightly point out "I heard all about all sorts of things, but we were never there, so we never know what's true and what's not"
@@yoshikempenaers8621
Vandoorne’s career was a natural 1, he had no chance right from the start
Lehto’s neck was still completely knackered when he came back in 1994, to the point that he really shouldn’t have been in the car, and the team shouldn’t have been pressuring him to do so either.
The B194 really wasn’t a car for the injured or the inexperienced. Was quite fond of snap oversteer at high speed…
I saw your second video and didn’t catch your subscriber count assuming it was rather high... given the insane high quality, this came in my feed and holy crap, subscribed
Thank you!
Brilliant video. Love your long story format and narrative.
Thank you!
It's such a beautiful, Shakespearean twist that 20 years later Max beat the very team that had surreptitiously abandoned his dad and left him out to dry before eventually becoming the behemoth in F1 it is today
It really is!
Thank you! As a newcomer in filmmaking/storytelling, your videos are quite inspiring to me. As an F1 fan, they are exquisite, to me.
Very nice of you to say, thank you!
Excellent video.
Quite excellent.
Take care with pronunciation. Ken's surname was/is pronounced "Tirrel" not "Thai-Rel".
But that aside (and some other wobbles) this is wonderful
In that day Honda should have pressed on with Max father: Jos. Jos could also have become World Champion back then.
Certainly he would've achieved a lot more with Honda than his remaining years with Arrows and Minardi.
Found you by accident today, and I'm so happy I did.
Thanks Nicholas!
Great Video, as always. It's nice to see that you talk about different topics than other CZcamsrs. Keep up the good work and you'll become one of the Top F1 CZcamsrs.
Really enjoying your Videos so far.
Thank you so much Jens!
6:23 surprised you did not mention the forgettable first year in CART for Honda where their insistence at running a cast iron block meant a mostly uncompetitive 1994 season, including a DNQ at the marque event of the season - the Indianapolis 500. Bobby Rahal, the original runner of the CART Honda engine, switched to Ilmor Mercedes-Benz engines for 1995 before Honda confirmed that it would be going to a more conventional aluminum block. That 1995 Honda almost won the Indy 500 a year after being too slow to make the field. The eventual 1995 Indy 500 winner? Jacques Villeneuve who rode that win to a Williams seat and F1 title before becoming BAR Honda's cornerstone driver.
“TIR-RELL” not “TYE-RELL”
great video though 👍
Lady Margaery would beg to differ 😂
You are quite correct - my bad!
@@TheMobileChicane You've done nothing wrong. Mispronouncing surnames is easily done, especially if you've only ever seen names written.
I wondered about that too.
This is fantastic. I've enjoyed all your videos so far.
Thank you!
Great video! Amazingly informative, in the first 5 minutes that i've watched so far. I really hope to see you grow in to one of the leading quality over quantity f1 youtubers👌👌
Thank you so much! That's the dream.
great! Please more! I know all this story but a love your naration and work in your videos.
New video should be out by the end of the month!
Very interesting and well done. I look forward to your next video.
Loving the thorough and detailed videos mate!
Thanks for all your comments Elliot!
@@TheMobileChicane welcome 😊
About Ligier, even after the brand quitted F1, their microcars, even to this day, are still named "JSnumber" like the JS50 or JS60, something I find very beautiful considering Schlesser died 45 years ago and Guy Ligier a little over 5 years ago.
Wonderful fact!
Very informative video...keep up the great work.
I always saw the Honda/Brawn team that Button and Barrichello raced for as the rebranded BAR team. Except 2007, they never binned the white base livery until Merc bought them.
I was part of the team that built the RA 99. and I attended those 1st tests. Jos was quickest on most days at the tests we did with the other teams. The car was very very quick and without doubt would have won races. Rumours from the other teams suggested the car was very much under weight & the times were all on low fuel. THAT IS NOT the case. its was on all levels a legal car .
Thank you! Your voice is very easy to understand for people like me that are not born in the UK.
What motivated you to start a CZcams channel?
Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed the video! The channel has been something I've wanted to do for years, and when I was furloughed last year, I realised that was the perfect excuse to start making videos.
Amazing story telling. It's so interesting to know that Honda came so close to enter F1 in '99. What a shame!
corporate Honda management in a nutshell - reluctant to take the risk whilst having really promising project. the same happened with what became BGP001. twice in history, at least.
Wow ! what a video !
Thank you!
Tie-rell?
UPDATE: JAPANESE GP returns after Pandemic and Max posts a personal story of this car and his Dad. 👍
Very good video really enjoyed it
Thanks Sam!
I am so glad i found your channel the videos are amazing
Honda weren't the only manufacturer eyeing up a spot on the 2000 F1 grid. Audi were also eyeing up an entry into F1 but elected to focus on building on their Le Mans success instead.
I knew Audi have been interested in F1 for a long time - I didn't realise it went as far back as 2000 though!
@@TheMobileChicane If they had joined in 2000, I think they would have had Johnny Herbert and Tom Kristensen as their drivers.
I find find this story very interesting, indeed maybe BAR convinced them to join them for 2000 instead, as it would be cheaper to supply an existing team than run their own team. Also fascinating that the Honda test car ran Megun Honda engines rather than factory Honda engines I wonder how it would have compared with that years Jordan.
Excellent video, just a heads up, it's Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, he earned that title 👏😉🏁 a massive loss to F1 😣
Good vid. Point to note - Tyrrell is pronounced "tea-rell" not "ti-rell". From Ken Tyrrell's surname.
ohh shit why did i think u got 475k subs. ur content is good man.
Haha! Maybe one day. Thanks!
@@TheMobileChicane because he can't pronounce Tyrell
The mugen engine was arguably better in 2000. I seem to remember Jordan outperforming the BARs on the straights. They could have brought Jordan but chose not due to brand conflict concerns. Crazy imo
The fact that the Board was not in favor of the project was a clear sign the project had no eventual viability. The racing landscape is littered with CEIO's pet racing projects that got axed once the CEO lost power or lost his job. Another example was the Haas Racing Beatrice Foods debacle in the mid 1990s.
Coincidentally, it was Schlesser's son Jean-Louis who was the driver that collided with Senna at Monza in 1988 and denied McLaren-Honda the 100% win rate that season.
BTW Tyrrell is pronounced 'tih-rull', and not 'tie-rell'.
10:05
"Jos Verstappen jumps from karting to F1 in 2 years"
Oh really?
You know who else jumped from karting to F1 in 2 years?
Not a clue...
what a coincidence that the test driver for honda at the time is Jos Verstappen....Max's father...and max won a championship on a honda engine....
HOW DO YOU ONLY HAVE 450 SUBS
Thanks Lukas!
Man it's Tyrell!!!! Pronounced 'Tirol' not Tierell!
It's a grave error I'm never going to live down!
@@TheMobileChicane if you truly knew anything about Formula 1.. You'd know how to pronounce a team as historic as Tyrell.
Would love to see a Jordan retrospective/what if.
Check the Frentzen video if you haven’t already; that might partially scratch that itch!
I've just discovered your channel, and it's really rather good, but please - Ty-Rell? It's pronounced Ti-rall 😂😂😂😂 (Subscribed btw) 😁😁😎😎
I'm never living this lapse of judgment down! Don't worry, I know how to pronounce it now (and thank you for the subscription)
that orange arrows was promising
sad arrows never got 2gether
I’m 1996 they were called “Arrows” and not “Footwork”
Now, when I think about it, the only reason Honda entered as a full manufacturer team in 2006 (and was shortlived and forgetable) was because everyone else was doing it. Toyota entered F1 in 2002, just as Renault completed the full rebranding of the team once called Benetton (in fact, Renault had been owning the team since 2000). Elsewhere BMW purchased the Sauber team in 2005 after falling out with Sir Frank Williams (I notice a pattern of Frank almost all the time falling out with engine suppliers), while Mercedes had a minority stake in McLaren since 1999. Ford also had their own team in Jaguar (a rebranded Stewart GP in 2000), but sold it to Red Bull in late-2004 (Ford also sold Cosworth as the blue oval divested itself from all F1 activities). And Ferrari is, you know - Ferrari. And I think not to be left behind in this trend, Honda began investing in BAR by buying the 45% stake in 2004 and the inevitable full ban on tobacco sponsorship (as BAR was owned by the British American Tobacco) accellerated the complete takeover by the end of 2005. IMO Honda never intended to enter as a 100% owned team (purchasing a minor stake - maybe), but they had to considering how the F1 landscape has shifted in the mid-2000's. In 2006 only Williams, Red Bull, Midland, Toro Rosso and Super Aguri were "independent", but if you exclude Toro Rosso for being a B-team for Red Bull and the same for Super Aguri (which was heavilly supported by Honda), then out of the 11 teams on the grid only 3 (Williams, Red Bull and Midland) did not rely on manufacturer support (i.e. having customer engines) or support from another team (i.e. not being in alliance with another team as a B-team)
Tyrrell. TYRRELL!
Not ‘Tie Rell’.
I'll never live it down!
Magnussen was not underperforming when your engine keeps exploding it limits what you can do..... It's the same story with his son a glimpse of something good in McLaren and then lackluster teams from then Haas including
Was this about Honda or Jos Verstappen
I love these videos but I’m not letting pronouncing Tyrrell as Tie-rell lie!
It's a faux pas I'm never going to let down!
@@TheMobileChicane Ignore the pedants. You've done a fab job.
Tie rell ?
Posting this on the 24tb year of Harvey 's passing. It would have been interesting if his death had never happened. RIP.
Who would Jos Verstappen's team mate have been had the team entered?
Not sure if anyone was ever singled out (happy to be proven wrong), if I was to guess then perhaps Shinji Nakano, given his Honda links opened the doors to testing for Jordan.
I always thought BrawGP was only by name and Honda pretty much fronted all its operations until the last minute and Ross bought the rights to run it in his name.
I believe they held onto the operations for as long as possible to give the team the best chance possible to survive. There's a great book called The Brawn Story by Christopher Hilton which goes into detail about Brawn's career and how he took over the team - I really recommend it!
Honda had paid for and developed the eventual brawnGP. Ross swapped out the Honda engine for the Mercedes and....
Tie Rel???
Doi you mean Tirrill?
How's can you mispronounce Ken Tyrrell's team and name?
*How
@@pacman_birthmark A trifle pedantic if I may.
"Chicane-based shenanigans". I believe that could also be called "chicanery". Thank you, I'll see myself out.
The car was never legal that’s why it set ok lap times it was under minimum weight for one
Jos The Toss(er)
Honda's WTCC stint is also quite excruciating. Winning manufacturer's title only in the season, where as manufacturers are only Honda and Lada, then in the final season losing to the now Chinese Volvo. I like Honda as a company with tradition and attention to quality, but I am always far from buying one and many decisions they make for their racing programs and car design are questionable. Also funny how it is Verstappens' family tradition to push hard with Honda powered cars :D
Jos Verstappen used to drive a Honda and drink Red Bull... And his son, Max did better with the same brands!
Should be an m not a k buddy
Honda, the kings of questionable F1 decisions.
Dude learn to pronounce Tyrrell would you
Stop saying "Thai-rell"!!
Never heard of Ken Tyrrell?!!
Haha, it's been over a year since the launch of the video, and many others have said the same. No need to add fuel to the fire. Maybe he'd only seen Ken's name written, and understandably used the similar Game of Thrones surname as inspiration. I only knew the preferred pronunciation from Murray Walker's commentary. Then again, Murray's pronunciations were never 100% genuine.
2x World Champion and future at least 8X DWC cRaSh vErStApPeN?
Oh boy. Can't take a joke, can we, darling?