The Gutians - Babylon's Barbarians
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- If every empire had its barbarians, the Gutians were the ones who afflicted Mesopotamia. From the founding of Akkad over four thousand years ago these mysterious nomads came rampaging out of the Zagros Mountains to lay waste to the Euphrates valley for millennia. Responsible for the fall of Akkad, Ur III, and even Babylon, they left no records of their own and are only known to history through the accounts of their enemies.
Thanks to the esteemed Joshua J. Mark for this wonderful article and all the fine people at the World History Encyclopedia for their continued support. Our shared projects are one of the pillars of our community! Please visit the World History Encyclopedia (www.worldhistory.org/) and subscribe to their many wonderful offerings today!
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I know it must be hard for everyone Nick left behind, but thank you for continuing this channel. I’m sure he would be very happy to know his vision and legacy will carry on. ❤️
Agree 100% Love to Nick & family
I loved homie he was a good man he exuded nobility.It came through over the screen.I was hurt when I got the news.Because as a teacher he was a great one.Able to convey over to me in minutes what other teachers couldn't in a lifetime.One love and the last right of passage awaits us all.Just make sho you" Honor Our Honorable Ancestors Only" and Nasmando the land of the ancestors is a pleasant place for you
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Nicely said.
As his older brother, thank you very much for continuing this channel. To be able to see the notification that there is a new video available makes it seem as though he is not truly gone. So for that, I thank you. Thank you for continuing his legacy and keeping his memories with us very much alive.
DW, I have never met you but know Nick spoke highly of you. Thank you for your tribute video for my brother and all you have done for he and his family. I have had the videos from SAMA going at work and truly enjoy your narrating. Thank you again for all you have done for them and, as Nick would say, for making history matter.
Bless you Butch. All my love to you and your family. Long live your brother’s memory and legacy. Take care mate.
I'm New to the channel but glad to be able to help it Carry on. I've lost two brothers and love it when someone even mentions their names
God Bless You
0øzs
Thanks for keeping up teaching history and keeping Nick’s channel going. I pray for you and your family every morning in this difficult time of transition.
Double edged sword. Great to see another post, but makes me remember the loss of the originator. Thanks for keeping SAMA going
Rest in Power, Nick Barksdale
So glad to see you continue the channel! I think it is a great way to honour Nick's vision. And still excellent content about a little exposed topic. Thanks to all involved!
they are the forerunners of today's Iranian peoples, Guti-Cudi-Kurdi, Gutians come from the Zagros mountains like today's Kurds.
CORRECTION: Ur-Nammu's law code is NOT the oldest. "law code of Urukagina" predates his by hundreds of years. Now we don't HAVE Urukigina's code (so a play on words can justify the statement of Ur-Nammu's I suppose) but we know Urukagina's existed because it is referenced in other law codes and official records/correspondence of the era.
Thanks for the correction and addition! We depend on comments like yours to make our episodes more valuable!
Nice catch! It is a detail that I would not have known about without your comment either.
thanks william, good input
i hope someone find the tablet
Rest in Peace, Nick.
Don’t let this channel die, you are doing a great job … this was an interesting subject
I’m so glad you are able to keep Nick’s channel going, he would have been so proud of you! It just guts me to think how young he was, and how hard he fought to survive, my deepest sympathies, keeping his wonderful work going might help in the long run.
They were ancestors of modern Kurds, who till today are treated the same way.
What is the way the Kurds today? Is it a method of occupation or a way to regain its lands? 😐
@@ReberAhmo-wu1vn the aspirations are to regain their stolen land
@@ReberAhmo-wu1vn Kurds have been living on their ancestral land since the beginning of time.
Awesome. Good quality history content is just what we need in memory of Nick.
Nice to see you guys still uploading interesting and obscure topics for this channel. It's good knowing Nick's legacy will continue
SO thrilled to see you're keeping it going!!! I was really hoping it - the channel, in his memory - would continue, and that, if ANYONE did continue it, that it would be YOU!! Our love goes out to you and your family and, of course, to Nick's family.
Keep it up! The content is great, and, honestly, your narration is - as it always has been - GREAT!! I absolutely LOVE your voice!
Good to see the channel is still going
RIP Nick
A legendary passion for history lives on.
Excellent production guys.
RIP Nick, you are missed already.
The Kurds are the only logical clue.
Yes, I thank you, and Kurdia (Kurdistan) will be liberated from the Arab, Turkish and Persian invaders again.
@@ReberAhmo-wu1vnof course not. They are banished are erased forever from ever reigning as they once did
Thanks for continuing Nick’s legacy!
Thank you for putting this together!
Happy to see The channel going on: Nick would be proud of the legacy he left us! 👍
Thank you so much for continuing the channel. Absolutely fantastic content and it's what Nick would have wanted. RIP Legend
Thank you so much for keeping this going. Nick is surely seeing this and he is smiling. I will continue to watch the hell outta all videos coming up.
Wow...thank you for this never before tasted flavor of history to feed my appetite for knowledge, hats off to you on this one Sama !!!
Thank you for this wonderful channel. Excellent production and narration. 😊
Great narration, perfect timing, relaxing and educated pronunciation. Thank you
I was just googling the gutians this week! Fantastic!
So happy to see an upload on SAMA 💕 and such a great topic. Nick would be proud 🙏
Great work on such a rare topic.
Amazing work, thank you
Thank you for this window into a part of history I never knew existed
Mesopotamia is the birthplace of civilization, if you put it in perspective greeks that we consider ancient would consider sumer or akadia as ancient
i love this channel, i wish they posted more!!!!
Very interesting video , the subject leads us to many questions! thanks a lot.
Thanks for making this. Very intriguing
Thanks y’all. Just makes me so sad that Nick is gone. Rip man..
I miss Nicks happy excited introduction but thanks so much to everyone involved for continuing my favorite CZcams channel.
Those head sculptures are so amazing!
These videos are a treasure.
Interesting and fascinating. Well done.
The only living Gutian language today is Kurdish…🤔
Guti seems to have a close relationship to later Göt, which linguistically could be seen as a variant of Kurd: K=G, UR=Ö, D=T, and we can also see the Geats as another relative term. When we know the Kurds were Zoroastrian before forced to convert to Islam, then we can also see the link between Cyrus the Great and his identity of the Jewish people as cousins of the same monotheistic God. Gudea was the greatest Gutian king, which makes me wonder if that similarity with Judea had something to do with it. The Aryan identity seems to be similar to the Moses revolution, originating from his exile with the nomadic future in-laws.
It’s all pretty convoluted since we don’t have much for reliable history. Needless to say, Gutians fascinate me.
Never even heard of the Gutians - and I thought I was knowledgeable on the Ancient world!
Of course you need a lot more than etymological similarity to link peoples like Kurds/Geats/Göts which are so distant from eachother, both in geography and chronology.
Kurdish is an iranic language. Gutian is believed to have spoken a pre germanic language. They were two separate people. Gutians could have been ancestors of Goths.
@@matrixxx3662 just yesterday (I noticed this reply after originally posting this comment) you replied to another comment by saying “kurdi name comes from Guti.” Yet you say in a reply to me that Gutian was pre-Germanic and not Kurdish. So when you say “two separate people” we have to realize that they are split by a very long time. If Gutian, as you say, is “pre-Germanic” and they lived Northeast of Sumerian cities then to say Kurdish is so NOT a part of this group seems odd. The research I’ve done to find this out mostly points to both Kurds and Goths as deriving from Gutians, though we are talking about millennia of evolution. The Iranianization of the Bosporus during Hellenic Greece is delineated by a cult called Theos Hypsistos. “Thiassoi of Theos Hypsistos” is a good article describing this cavalier wisdom cult. The Tocharian connection to later Scythian and Gothic is also seen in the name “Turkic,” and the runic style of writing goes with it. Tengrism, the word deriving from Sumerian Dingir, shows another aspect of this very old connection. It really does suggest that Snorri Sturluson knew more about Norse history than many want to believe. His “fantastic” prologue in his Edda seems crazy, but he suggested the Gothic people were originally Turkish.
So, yes, I agree that they are “two distinct people” but that seems only due to such an old split that independent evolution made them so “distinct.” Yet, they are all still Indo-European languages. We also have to realize our theories are limited by the little bit of historical textual evidence of Gutian culture.
@@jeffatwood9417
Here is what I found on Wikipedia. This is a bit different opinion to my own. But then again I might be wrong. Gutians had no written language and it was little info on them to be separating them as an different ethnic group.
By the 1st millennium BC, usage of the name Gutium, by the peoples of lowland Mesopotamia, had expanded to include all of western Media, between the Zagros and the Tigris. Various tribes and places to the east and northeast were often referred to as Gutians or Gutium.[4] For example, Assyrian royal annals use the term Gutians in relation to populations known to have been Medes or Mannaeans. As late as the reign of Cyrus the Great of Persia, the famous general Gubaru (Gobryas) was described as the "governor of Gutium".
@@guerillasystem of course it was. Ahura is related to Æsir as in Asura…and one could even find a potential relation to Ashur from Assyria. The Sumerian influences upon other cultures were quite strong, indeed.
Jewish Torah was a summary of cherry picked religious beliefs from pre-existing cultures. Zoroastrian Persia did the same, being a homogenizing force for human religious ideas. Gutians are such a mystery to historians…who really can say for sure?
great presentation on a difficult but very intertaining topic
Very informative…Thank you 🙏🏼
awesome video very interesting
This is a real treat
Gutians: The unknown scary others; got it! and Thanks for keeping da faith...
This cool thanks.
Thank you
Thanks!
Love it!
i think this is what nick would've wanted. thank you guys
Thank you for carrying on. Very interesting: I had never heard of the Gutians.
Excellent, high-quality video about a lesser-known historical people. Congratulations, D.R., and company, and keep them coming! Question: are there archaeological remains of the high bridge over that river, in the city image when discussing Sargon? If so, that would be an amazing construction for the time and the materials they had!
Sorry, meant D.W., not D.R., I’m a terrible typist on this iPad!
Agreed
Your material is always understandable and freshly presented. I think Nick is in heaven approving
Bless you
AMAZING
Thank you for furthering the work this channel was meant to handle. It is a continuance of Nick's vision and good for everyone generally that the information being disseminated will be available for anyone who wants to know it.
l'm Kurd and So Proud of my ancestors!
They were Kurd
No, Kurds were Hurrians and Elamite
@@usponsvijestiuzisusakrista8185 Eeh, The Gutians are Hurrians that make them be the Kurdish people
@@sazgarmuhammad8364 not really. Gutians were Goths or Getae, an aryan people and R1a haplogroup. Hurrians were and are I haplogroup, most dominant in Balkans and Scandinavia, and only among Kurds in middle east. Brothers of original Kurds are Kroats in Europe
@@usponsvijestiuzisusakrista8185 Bruh The Gutians were indo Europeans and it's the same race We have, They lived here and l live The same Place That they lived befor.
@@sazgarmuhammad8364 yes Kurds got some of Gutian ancestry that is correct. But Kurdish original identity and culture is primary Hurrian and Elamite thats all.
Hurrians and Gutians mingled together over the past
Oooooh new mugs. I won't be buying my coffee cups anywhere else. Here's to Nick RIP. ❤️💐💐💐
Thinking of Nick
The Gutians and the Gasga are two peoples I wish we knew more about. I would love to go back in time and have a chat with one of them. To see what they thought of themselves rather than hearing what other people thought about them.
Gutians are ancestors of modern kurds including me. Thanks
I have recently developed a small pet theory that they are a (very, very ancient) offshoot of the Goths.
The Goths have roots as Gutes / Gutones / Goti / Geats / Getae .. from Gotland / Gotaland in Scandza. The legend was that they came down and took over the Eastern Europe, Scythia, and came down to Asia by and by. They supposedly took part in fighting back Sesostris.
There is also some evidence the Gutians were light skinned and fair haired.
"The Goths have roots as Gutes / Gutones / Goti / Geats / Getae .. from Gotland / Gotaland in Scandza" nope
". The legend was that they came down and took over the Eastern Europe, Scythia, and came down to Asia by and by." nope
"There is also some evidence the Gutians were light skinned and fair haired" show it germanic loser
Id go with Indo-European, Goth would be a bit early.
@@bobhaverbeck7585 I'd generally agree, but then again Jordane's account has early Goths in the area prior to Sesostris, who was possibly the 19th C. Egyptian king. However, I don't think that back then such historical details really survived over a thousand years. I suspect a lot of the events and people came a few centuries later than what is currently believed. There's a long history of the timeline of the 3rd-2nd millennium BC being overestimated, and it likely still is to a degree.
. They are literally the ancestors of Kurds. The ancient sumerian tablets refer to the Gutian homelands of Zagros mountains as the Lands of Kurda. They were Indo-European people just like the modern Kurds are and the only problem with the gutians for the modern etymologists is that there isn't enough literaturel data to connect them to any modern languages, however the ancient sumerian tablets refering to them as the people of the lands of Kurda is enough to say that Kurds are the most closest modern day ethnic group that can be connected to this ancient civilization.
This is fascinating to me. Are the Gutians related to the Medes?
They are one and the same.
By the 1st millennium BC, usage of the name Gutium, by the peoples of lowland Mesopotamia, had expanded to include all of western Media, between the Zagros and the Tigris. Various tribes and places to the east and northeast were often referred to as Gutians or Gutium.[4] For example, Assyrian royal annals use the term Gutians in relation to populations known to have been Medes or Mannaeans. As late as the reign of Cyrus the Great of Persia, the famous general Gubaru (Gobryas) was described as the "governor of Gutium".
@@matrixxx3662 Thanks!...You seem to know this subject well...Are you a professor or grad student or something?
@@shawnweed265 I don't think so.But since everyone knows that gutians became medes or medes were gutians, it's known for many people.
. Yes they were Medes, Medes are the ancestors of modern day Kurds, and the lands that the Gutian civilization inhabited ( zagros mountains) were called the Lands of Kurda by the sumerians. The 3rd millennium BC sumerian tablets refer to Gutian homelands as the lands of Kurda, now considering that Medes were a NW Iranian speaking civilization, and Kurds are also NW Iranian speaking Indo-Europeans, the closest links we can make between these civilizations to modern day ethnic groups are Gutians-Medes-Parthians-Kurds.
from Lake Van all the way to Zagros mountains@@matrixxx3662
Ello presenter, I'm having trouble understanding why U have scenes of Mt Nemrut given that U are talking about a separate & different part of the map??
My kurdish ancestors❤
What a good video! Does anyone know the name/artist of the painting at 4:54?
Nomadic Raiders, Painting by Kofi Nduro - Artmajeur 👀 2014
Seek Christ
@@TheLionFarm Thank you so much,it really caught my attention.I am a Christian,brother/sister.✝️
I always thought the Gutians were a race of designers of fashion accessories.
13:10 Squidward hearing magical shell "do nothing" or "get nothing".
Gutian und median -achamanid Are the same kurds Originale👑☀️.
The gutian are proved in the time of Cyrus. as part of the media. Gutians are therefore the name of only one nation.
The greatest generals of Cyrus and Darius were named Gobryas king of gutium sagartian/sagartier/ in median
Notice the depiction of the Akkadians at 5:22 mark in the video very accurate portrayal.
Is this where we get Gluten From? :-)
The "Gutians" were Scythians. See the work of professor Gunner Heinsohn on Mesopotamian historiography.
Fascinating idea. The standing barbarian at 2:29 appears to be dressed in Scythian fashion, though the sculpture looks Babylonian or Assyrian rather than Sumerian, Akkadian or Elamite.
Looked up Heinsohn and see his theory must be based on his completely daft idea that Darius was the same person as Nebuchadnezzar and perhaps Hammurabi. Do I need to add any more?
@@sirrathersplendid4825 yes, the idea that Darius was the same person as Hammurabi is daft, yet Heinsohn's overall thesis is not based on that; it's based on the stratigraphic sequences as found in the ground. It's easy to pick holes in a single aspect of a radically new theory and use that as an excuse to jettison everything; sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. That's what you're in danger of doing.
@@emmetsweeney9236 - OK, I take your point. I’m fascinated by the Scythians, who it is believed were related to and derived from the Cimmerians, who in turn had extensive contacts with Assyria. I’m willing to take aboard any theory on its merits, though a gap of, what 1200 years, between Gutians and Cimmerians would be hard to fill. And then there’s the question of horsemanship, which didn’t exist in the Near East pre-2000BC. Will try to read some of Heinsohn’s Mesopotamian studies if I can find them.
Thank you for this great video. I tend to a agree that gushian may refer to a barbarian in the same way that habiru or hebrew probably refers to mobile people that herd sheep and goats.
👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻7:29 from the breakdown of society/social norms and culture/customs, to famine and the aspect of devaluing/of currency/stagflation sounds like what is happening now in America/Babylon 2.0
Guti as a cognate.... G = K and "o" = "ur" and t= d... therefore, Guti = Kurdi !!!
really a mystery...i thought of the protoceltic people...
Could they be related to the Pre-IndoEuropean Iranic peoples?
They were Kurd and we Kurds speak indo european langunges
@@sazgarmuhammad8364 Ok, I love Kurdistan as much as anybody, but there is simply no proof of that.
gutians had horses right? i always thought they were an indo european group
@@andreluismarin8095 it is proven they contributed to the ethno-genesis of Kurds, Kurds adopted a Northwestern Iranian language but they are not a homogenous group
@@sazgarmuhammad8364 not originally. Gutian language was not indo-european.
Why a main picture depicting the Mount Nemrod? This is from the armenian-hellenic-persian kingdom of Commagene, which is totally unrelated. The ruins and the statues depicted here represent the orontid kings of Commagene (a branch of the orontids from the armenian royal family, related to the persian achemenids as well) as well as the various gods of the armenian pagan pantheon: Aramazd, Mihr, Vahagn, Anahit, Tir etc… , all wearing the classical armenian tiara.
No relation to the gutians at all.
The rest of the video is accurate however.
Correct the pictures depict armenian king and gods. Please correct it.
Since when is Nimrod associated with Greeks or ArMENian people?
@@sevankessissian4308 Right.If so explain to me since when and what does Nimrod means in Armenian or Greek language or even Iranian or since when this people even trace any relationship to Nimrod???
@@hondacbrification Since king Antiochos I of Commagene, for whom this tomb/sanctuary was built, said so.
He claimed to be descended from the orontid Armenian dynasty, on his father’s side (as well as from the persian achaemenid dynasty).
He wore the Armenian tiara, symbolizing Armenian royalty.
He chose to represent the Armenian pagan gods on his tomb, some also wearing the Armenian tiara.
As for the greeks, his mother was descended from the seleucid dynasty.
On the same bas-relief he is depicted with the armenian tiara, he is litteraly shaking the head of the Greek god Herakles.
You are free to contradict the actual king who built this sanctuary himself, but you are also free to educate yourself: the internet also is free for everyone.
@@hondacbrification How the mountain is called today is completely irrelevant to what this site meant to the people who built it during the 1rst century BC.
Since you are asking, here is what is relevant however: the fact that king Antiochos I of Commagene, for whom this tomb/sanctuary was built, said he descended from armenian orontid and persian achaemenid royal bloodlines through his father, and from the hellenic seleucids through his mother.
He litteraly wore the Armenian tiara, which symbolize Armenian royalty.
He also chose to represent the Armenian pagan gods on the site of his tomb (which is called today Mount Nemrod), some of whom are also wearing the Armenian tiara.
On the very same (famous, haven’t you seen it?) bas-relief on which he is depicted with the Armenian tiara, you can see him litteraly shaking the head of the Greek god Herakles.
He is described everywhere and in every serious scholar sources as being the instigator of syncretic religion blending greek, persian and armenian elements.
You are free to contradict the actual king himself who built this very sanctuary, but you are also free to educate yourself: the internet also is free for everyone.
patreon link is broken hun
Thanks for trying! We are still locating passwords after his untimely passing.
I'm sure it was the Gutians.
Nothing worse than mountain and steppe dogs , they are uncivilized barbarians who can only destroy
just a though; repetition, which to us seems a cliché (considering our deep reliance on printing and its derivatives) was in an ancient world either indicating 'many' or was seen as a positive namely a symbol of purity of intent (since in principle all was non-repetitive in real life, aka non-industrial).
Gutians are modern day Kurds
Proud to be guti💪💪
The gutis disappeared 2000 years ago from the History and the texts.
@@ami443 kurds are guti
@@FreePalestine07462 // Kurds are an Indo-European people. Gutians weren’t IE therefore cannot be real ancestors of Kurds. Although a lot of modern “Kurds” and “Arabs” today are descendants of Gutians.
@@user-bi9wm2cw8bArab's are semitic, Gutians were not, also the oldest historical records of sumerians 3rd millennium BC tablets refer to gutium as the lands of Kurda and the assyrians refer to kurdish medians as Gutians. The closest link to them in modern day are the Kurds.
I hear the Gutians sounded like dogs as well or so I've heard.Also did they have any thing to do with Abraham fleeing Mesopotamia.One more thang, where the Scythians in cahoots with the Gutians?
Gutians were pre germanic old Gothic while Scythians were an iranic tribe.
You really have to keep on fighting to keep a good thing going people always want a piece of the action and then they ruin it for everybody
Gutians are modern day people kurd and kurd and medes are some people.
Legends in Portuguese Brazil, please! 🇧🇷
There is little alignment between image and text. The text is good, but if you watch carefully, the images are largely random. The narrator will be talking about Akkadian rulers, and will show images of Sumerian art. They even showed the same art twice, and both times, it had no relation to the text. Why shoot for such a low bar when it comes to editing, when excellence can be achieved?
See czcams.com/video/J9MUabK6J_s/video.html which was shot in Dagestan for comparison. Some of the buildings seen at 9:46 in this video about the Gutians even have roofs on them. Very odd.
Maybe they were a minority scapegoat like we see in the modern day.
The Gutians are the Getae, and the Goths.
If Gutian just disappeared then suddenly modern day Kurds around 50-70mill came from mars!!
There is some new discover from north of Iraq (Kurdistan region)! history will show much deeper than we know! only if Kurd became something or neighbours allow them to show the truth.
Sealing some gaps
These would arrive a bit before Abram( Abraham ) and are seen taking down Ur of the 3rd Dynasty an kind if assist with Elam
2:05 Mede of Japheth of the CF-p143 branches
If the Akkadians blame them for their empire fall is a sign of a very strong and organize culture. Barbarians ???
The Mesopotamian lowlands weren't unfamiliar with Zagros mountaineers, as seen later in the Bronze Age when Babylon had it's longest dynasty of them all, the Kassites.
The Kassites appear to have been spread all over the northern half of the Zagros region, but they weren't viewed as outsiders, barbarians.
That begs the question, what was so different about the Gutians?
We have a Bronze Age remain from Hajji Firuz Tepe in north Zagros, which is dated to around 2200BC. In other words, around the Gutian period of Mesopotamia.
He is nothing like the other samples of that region and time period. The genetic profile is that of a Pontic Steppe nomad.
Many Steppe nomads sedentarized quickly in new environments, however the Zagros region is ideal for transhumance and the people didn't sedentarize until the governments forced them to in the 20th century.
I believe the Gutians were Steppe nomads who left one nomad area for another before seizing the opportunity to become the new ruling class of a civilization in turmoil, much like the Arameans, Turco-Mongols and other nomads centuries and millennia later.
They stood out in the Fertile Crescent due to their very light feature, distinct culture and violent Steppe nomadic ways.
They eventually mixed and blended in with the other Zagros mountaineers and this can be seen in later samples from the Iron Age which derive around 1/4 of their ancestry from the 2200BC individual.
Oh, and the Akkadians, whose two greatest kings were Sargon and Naram-Sin, were the same people as people as the Old Assyrians, whose two greatest kings were named Sargon and Naram-Sin.
The enemy does bleed: 120 000 men sent, 90 000 men sent, 60 700 men sent - all perish - what a disaster for a nation.
I believe the gutians are similar to the nomad steppe people
But the Gutians lived in the mountains, not the steppes. They sound more like the modern Afghan tribes than the steppe tribes like the Scythians who normally rode horses in war.
I wonder if Gutians were kin to the Tocharians (actually called Kucheans or Kuchi) or Yuezhi (also known as Juchih or Kushana). Those people lived in Central Asia and North-Western China, and they may be descendants of the Tarim mummies from 1800BC. Maybe after the Sumerians expelled many of the Gutians in 2050BC, a number of them gradually migrated north-east through Central Asia. If this is the case, then many Afghani/Tajik/Uzbek people may be descendants of Gutians because the Kushana eventually migrated to Bactria. Interestingly, the ancient Chinese sometimes insulted the Indo-Europeans to their north-west by comparing their appearance to monkeys (macaques) so maybe they learned that insult from the Babylonian slander since they said the Gutians have the physique of a monkey.
Medes is a Greek name. But they themselves were Iranic people and Iranic speakers. The Assyrians called the Medes for Gutians. It said that the Medes and all Iranic tribes migrated from Central Asia. And when it comes to the Tarmim Mummies, 7 of them were positive for R1a Z93. Which is Indo-Iranic/Aryan branch.
"I wonder if Gutians were kin to the Tocharians (actually called Kucheans or Kuchi) or Yuezhi" they not
Modern day Afghani ans Tajik people have ties with them as they are the descendants of the cousins of Medes ( Persians ) and the Medes ( ancestors of modern day Kurds ) were the descendants of Gutians. Also the ancestral homelands of the gutians ( zagros mountains) were referred by the 3rd millennium BC sumerian tablets, as the Lands of Kurda, so they were the ancestors of modern day Kurds and are blood related to the ancestors of Persians and therefore the ancestors of the Tajiks and Afghanis.
Now we call these types of peoples, Orcs. Not much change there. Thank you for carrying on. I'm sure Nick would be happy about this.
Mythlore had its origins... 😀👍. Correct, they are now called orcs.
What do they have to do with Nemrut? What a strange thumbnail to use for this story.