Apple FINALLY acknowledges Mac gamers, and this could change EVERYTHING
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2024
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Quick video about how Apple has changed the way it is talking about Game Porting Toolkit, and now openly acknowledges that gamers are using it to game and not just to evaluate the viability of porting a game to macOS. They explicitly talk about 'gaming enthusiasts', CrossOver and Whisky, and implement features like Windows Ray Tracing and AVX support. And it seems like Apple's end-goal is to get every single Windows games working on the Mac. But will this change Apple's Mac gaming strategy and what does this mean for native Mac games?
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Apple knows that gaming on mac isn't popular enough for developers to feel incentivized to make a native port, so I think that's why they are embracing GPTK to try and make the mac gaming community even larger, and more enticing to game developers to make native games.
i think you’re absolutely right. apple needs 2 things to happen if they want mac gaming to actually take off. A) they need to make the porting process as automated and cheap as possible in order to lower the financial bar for entry. and B) they need to be able to communicate to and show developers that there is a market of macOS users that are willing to pay & play mac ports that they otherwise would have not bought had they remained exclusive to PC & Console.
The paradox here is that the more advanced GPTK becomes, the less incentive there will be for devs to natively port their game, as Mac gamers (at least the enthusiasts) will just buy a windows copy and run that through GPTK. Apple better have something cooking to solve this problem cause idk how they’ll do it.
@@jacksoncooke261 Couldn't have said it better
@@jacksoncooke261 I believe the only real incentive developers will have to actually port their games in this paradoxical scenario is if they feel there is enough demand to play these games on iPhone and iPad
And ironically if Apple continues to embrace that flexibility, it will make their platform far more popular. You can get rid of the majority of the security risks of a windows machine, the cost of their laptops isn't exceptional given the longevity and the battery life, plus the screen quality, they run cooler, require less energy and yet can run top tier games with less and less of a performance hit for the translation layer. Meaning travellers and home users, already often liking Macs, will look even more strongly at them, given the poor battery life (relatively) of intel and and chips these days
My games will be on Mac, Linux and Windows, so they got me. However, I am just an Indie Dev.
I'm a Mac fan and much prefer using macOS over Windows, but gaming is definitely a weakness of the OS.
It's 5 years out from parity. The switch from Windows to ARM is almost heavenly timing for Apple to jump into the pool.
Every year less
@@RiccardoMerloVegan ARM gaming is coming and Apple is currently king of ARM. It's not fait accompli, still very easy to botch this, but if they play it right, gaming won't be a decider any longer for which platform to invest in. In a few years.
It's not a weakeness of the OS... it's a weakness of game developers to make games for OS other than Windows. All major game engines (Unity, Unreal, GameMaker, Godot) easily export to Mac and Linux, so unless they are using their own engine, there's no excuse really.
"i am a mac fan, but gaming is weakness of the os" - lol, its like, i am fan of that car but it's a weakness that car doesnt have steering wheel. Typical macOS users.
I think the only way for Mac to become a viable option for gaming (specifically playing windows titles) is when GPTK is open source, this is so it would be possible for fans of whatever game to fix it themselves and make specific changes for each game instead of Apple needing to fix it. When that is possible Valve will heavily consider adding a real proton for mac. Because it will be mutually beneficial for Valve and Apple. It will also enable the average users (and not just the niche audience) to a very easy way to play a lot of games in their already existing library.
It is mostly open sourced... mostly. Valve can already use it, but they just don't want to. Ask Gaben why...
@@vyrgozunqkis the important part also open source (dx12 translation layer)?
If they’re going to open source GPTK then at that point they could just support Vulkan and be done with it. That’s a far bigger deal for developers than the OS or ARM64 in general especially if they’re happy to just lean on Rosetta.
Fingers crossed for WWDC25
@@Freshbott2 they can't because Metal is strictly made for their own GPU's hardware. Thry also share the same hardware across all their devices - iPad, iPhone, Mac, etc.
Vulkan would require driver rewrites, hardware changes and etc.
good times to have a Mac
Depends on the Mac
Not for your wallet 😂
it's always been a good time to have windows but yeah im really happy too
yeah amazing time to be able to play 10 year old games at barely 50fps on a $3000 machine
@@huiAPPOAJM1 mac costs $600, cheaper if you buy the 8GB version lol
What costs $3000 is 48GB M1 ultra or M2 ultra
Don't hate when there are cheaper alternatives
Apple wanted to sell games through their App Store and everyone to use ther Metal API, only hurting MacOS as a gaming platform in the process. And it is starting to look like they are giving up and letting go step by step.
I still don't like the idea of having all those translation layers (OS, API and CPU architecture) sucking the performance from where it is needed the most and I'd rather have games ported natively, but... It's better to have at least a not perfect option than not to have any options at all... Plus, Valve is doing such an amazing job supporting developing Proton that some games work even better than on Windows sometimes. I doubt that Apple will ever get to that level but we can hope.
Yeah, Linux is way better for games. There's just Proton, as Linux for the most part is still based around x86 so you only need a OS translation. With Mac, you need to consider the OS, API, and CPU architecture since it's ARM. That's three layers versus one. Not to mention the fact that there are more layers even if native, like the time it takes for your clicks to actually show up on the screen. It's pretty fast, but having all these transition layers just seems to make it unbearable. I'm glad I'm not a gamer anymore, as games are getting worse and worse. I grew up playing video games, and I'll cherish them for all the amazing memories they gave me, but with how things are headed, I'm glad I'm out.
Once Apple sets their minds to something you shouldn't doubt it. They just move slow as they prefer getting it right.
@@freecivweb4160 Oh, yeah, sure. Tell that to Apple from the 2010s when they first set their minds on becoming a gaming platform and partnered with Valve, only to screw them over in 1.5 years by suddenly dropping 32-bit support. Now Valve doesn't talk to Apple and isn't bothering much with macOS support. Steam still doesn't have an ARM version for Mac and works pretty bad via Rosetta 2 - that's the current gaming attitude around Apple after their last "mindset" on gaming. Apple is to ambitious and greedy and it makes it unreliable and unpredictable from the business perspective and it's not worth it to develop games for MacOS in many cases.
@@Timely-ud4rm Well, I was also a hardcore gamer and I don't play as much now but there are great sill games still being released even now. It's just way more crap now. Just in case, here's the list of my all time favorites:
Baba Is You, Braid, Dead Cells, Diablo 2, Dungeon Keeper 1,2, Fallout 1,2, Guilty Gear, Katana Zero, Metro Exodus, Oddmar, Ori 1,2, Portal 1,2, Prey (2017), Silent Storm, Sonic Mania, South Park Stick of Truth, The Binding of Isaac, The Messenger, Tron 2.0, Witcher 3, Zelda BOTW, Hades, Hollow Knight, Neon White, Disco Elysium, Baldur's Gate 3, Zelda TOTK
The reason why they want native game is because the Mac is mainly use by “the average customer” while the steam deck is a nerd thing. Tell a regular Mac user that you have to install an app to install and play your game and they already left.
Also they want devs to publish game on iPhone, which is easy with a native Mac support
I mean they could do what valve does and make it automatic. Like steam once you enable proton any windows game just automatically use that version. Apple could make it even more simple instead of someone having to know to turn the Translation layer on, they could make it automatic. By working with valve and wherever else games are downloaded and played. So if a game isn't native apple can make use this translation layer automatically so the average person clicks the game and there in no fiddling around. As sad as this sounds bc it is littary one 2-3 button clicks to turn proton in steam on Linux. after that point everything that isn't Linux native just uses it. Thats my opinion anyways
Candy Crush is top #1 profit game. Loot boxes games are most profitable, too. Why would Apple want low profit, high cost games?
You described iphone users, not Mac users. Enter any recording studio and see what hardware they are using. Mac is mainly used by working professionals/creatives that is why we hope to see more gaming on mac cause we are stuck with mac anyways. If i really cared about gaming i would have just bought Windows long time ago
@@MrQuay03Coz that’s a big reason to convince users upgrading their Mac
*used by
*Also, they
*publish games
*with native
*support.
if it was possible to play every windows game on mac with little to no issues I would straight up switch to mac as my main gaming system. I currently use a gaming desktop at home and a MacBook for work and I personally prefer macOS over windows
I think there are way more people in this boat than Apple realizes.
@@hewhoisknownastaco Way more than way more.
"i also prefer to spend $2000 for gaming on mac instead spending arround $500 to game with windows", said no one. xD
@@keewee23 its just another option to game on I have a $2000+ gaming desktop but windows is so buggy at time I perfer mac and I would definitely make the switch if the games where there
@@keewee23 But that $2000 computer is easier to use, more secure and lasts a LOT longer than PCs. Currently typing this on a 2014 iMac that runs perfectly and quietly.
During the WWDC keynote I picked up on Craig Federighi saying that with GPTK gaming enthusiasts could play more games which sounded like an endorsement to me. In the official livestream he says this at 1:00:29.
Ah very impressive! A tutorial on Whisky maybe? Cheers Andrew.
Noted this too, and this messaging is interesting but we'll see where it goes year-over-year. Roughly two+ years ago I made a video about being mildly excited for Mac gaming and still mildly excited.
I think Apple are trying to develop a market for games on Mac anyway they can, so Apple can say to developers ‘look how much demand there is for gaming on Mac’, and then developers would be encouraged to develop for Mac natively
still a hard sell, studios can barely make windows ports work, I think they are doing this to entice ios studios to publish on mac
Maybe the idea especially with the new M4 iPads is to have games that work on iPad and mac, thus enhancing the value of cross buy on the App Store.
Very interesting. Have you noticed better performance on existing running titles with GPTK2?
Valve's way to run games not equal to Crossover/GPT
Its because crossover/GPT run using Rosetta 2.. It's one more translation layer.
Regarding the change in Apple's strategy - I think it is connected with the recent announcement of Copylot + PC laptops. This is the main competitor of Apple Macbook. They also use ARM architecture. To run x86 games on these laptops, similar translation layers are used - this is Microsoft's strategy. But game developers speed up the translation by recompiling shaders and otherwise optimizing the translation. I think that if Apple really intends to use such a strategy, this is the main reason
If Windows on Arm games take of then emulating those on apple silicon will have less overhead.
After the changes that happened, is there any way to install the GameLoop emulator?
If games came to the Mac, I would choose the MAX or ULTRA series Macs instead of the base M variant. I don't do Final Cut Pro stuff so I can get by with the Air with the current stuff out. If Macs had games, then I would have a reason to upgrade my hardware.
Same, I currently use M1 series Mini and it's good enough for my Adobe Creative Cloud softwares, not quite for gaming. I'll upgrade to M4 Ultra Studio when I get a chance within a year.
Trust me, i have tried many games on my mac and the m3 pro is enough
This! How does Apple not see that they don't need to try to get games onto MacOS just to sell them in the App Store. No one is going to buy games through there anyway when there is Steam available. But they would make so much more money in hardware sales because we don't want to have a Mac AND a gaming PC.
But alas, owning the marketplace is so much more enticing.
@@hewhoisknownastaco They're going for both.
Andrew have you evaluated how big the Qualcomm X-Elite Arm chip could be for games on Mac?
I doubt it would do anything for Mac. Same reason why the Switch has done nothing for Mac game support. Both are ARM but that doesn’t mean devs want to. The main issue stems from stuff like Metal API
@@crestofhonor2349 When 90% of laptops are ARM you will wonder how well your statement aged. Battery life, baby. It will slay x86 for dead.
@@freecivweb4160 When all Macbooks were x86 it changed nothing. Why in the world would ARM based laptops change anything. Apple had Metal before Apple Silicon chips. Plus the way Apple does some stuff in the ARM world is different from Qualcomm. In fact Intel Macs had a much easier time getting into gaming than ARM chips and yet nothing changed
Simply having the same architecture isn't suddenly going to make gaming better on Mac
@@crestofhonor2349 I get your logic, but Apple moves slow and longterm, doing 5-8 year plans while others are on the 1-3 year plan with CEO's sweating each quarterly.
All computing is going ARM and who is currently king of ARM and Arch-64? It's a role reversal. Microsoft's army is crossing the muddy river to the other side where Apple now holds the hill. It's very possible for Apple to still lose in gaming, but very possible to achieve parity now.
@@freecivweb4160 I doubt apple will ever achieve parity when it comes to gaming. They lack so many things most gamers want like upgradability
I think they are going all in but not sure on their approach.
GPTK was huge and probs was originally a tool last year but they saw the momentum it built.
The fact they u turned on emulators defo a great way to give them lots of coverage and good will with gamers to show apple can game .
Now they are at cross roads as you say do they push developers into porting a game that can run on 100 millions devices (iPhone/ipad/mac guess easily scalable across devices ) or entice people onto Mac with their ‘proton’ approach via GPTK.
I think they want the former but building towards later as a worst case.
If ends that way they’ll make it fully consumer facing and will be a feature 3-4 years down the line.
Best strategy is to do both until the platform is considered Gamer-A-grade, then let the rest take care of itself.
They did mention whisky during sotu too
Does it fix the optimization with Max chips
I love your videos, thanks for uploading regularly
I think Valve should use The Game Porting Tookkit to bring Proton to Mac
I was thinking that as well. Why can’t Steam run Proton when a Mac user wants to run a Windows game? Though, it’s more likely Apple would create a Proton like translation layer before Valve would, and it’s almost unthinkable that Apple would do it either. Even though an Apple developed version of Proton would be the best option.
@@Roach22 and valve can simply take advantage of it without developing photon to work on Mac
@@Roach22 next WWDC I reckon will see the kit being more user friendly to the point you don’t need to set it up first
Convincing devs to sink resources into native ports allows those games to pass Apple’s macOS and ipadOS App Store submission requirements, ergo giving Apple a piece of the App Store sales price (which is either 15 or 30%)
Maybe GPTK is a way of getting windows gamers over to Mac who have large game libraries. “Come to MacOS your games still work here”. I don’t think this will replace the native strategy but the more user you end up having who play games the more native games will be made.
I wasn't able to play Elden Ring with the first release of Game Porting Toolkit. Now I can play with my Macbook Air M1. It's definitely not the best experience but I still see it as a big improvement since I still played it for like 30+ hours now and still playing. It's amazing just how a one update can change everything. I'm really hopeful about Mac gaming now with this update and the announcements of new official Mac ports of the Windows games. It seems that Apple is kind of serious about gaming now.
How many fps
the only thing I would really love to see on Mac and im talking as an old windows user is the xbox app with all game pass access supported on arm architecture.. because for the rest of all games its just a matter of time to see them pop in the App Store one by one.. and I can't wait to start fill up my game folder
I think Apple needs to do both. There is a slew of legacy games out there that even if GPTK becomes a one click port, developers have no reason to dig up decade old code bases to do that.
Which technologies are next for metal 4? How can they improve it?
Need frame generation in addition to MetalFX TAAU, support for Vulkan games, ray reconstruction, improved MetalFX using AI neural engine acceleration
This is exactly the post I wanted to see from you Andrew! Yes, it looks like Apple is up to something more than just evaluation when it comes to running Windows games on a Mac. I would really like to see Apple come up with a way to add some sort of "Windows Games" section on their App Store. Not exactly sure how it would work, but would be great to see this have an "install and play" mode that's completely invisible to an end user and maybe even have that section contain games that have received some sort of certification to be listed under that section of the App Store. I don't really play a lot of games anymore, but Apple's GPT has me playing a few, like Cyberpunk 2077 on my MacBook and I'm very pleased with the performance. Would be great to have access to most of the top Windows games, even if there is no Mac port.
I just really hope they keep up with it, and keep it a core part of macOS. I could also see in the far future, when Windows is mostly ARM, having a translation layer for the Window specific code, but translating from Windows ARM to Mac ARM would see very little performance loss (kind of like Ryujinx does for Switch games on Apple Silicon). It would be even better to get it on iPad, but I'm not holding my breath.
iPads now use M chips, it's practically a waste to port to Mac without doing iPad too. (Depends on the game of course.)
i just upgrade to macos sequoia , i tried to install gptk 2 but i got this error
" Error: You are using macOS 15.
We do not provide support for this pre-release version " ... can someone help me ? ,
The error was your "help" and said all you need to know. Sequoia is not an official release yet.
I noticed the mentioning of Whisky and Crossover as well, while I don’t think Apple will ever roll out their own Proton/WINE I think it’s a good indication they don’t see this as a violation of the GPT license and are lowkey encouraging people to use it this way
Anyone know if street fighter is running on crossover yet?
So they announced gpt2.0 will also help ipad, so do we have a method already for windows game on ipad??
its getting closer and closer… all i want is just battleye support for the ARM chip based, then im sold (bcs games that i play is just R6 with my friends)
This is the issue with projects like proton/wine, lack of developer willingness to just let anticheat solutions be open to working on every platform, I hate having to be locked down to a specific operating system to play specific games instead of being able to use what I want. Epic having the monopoly on anticheats with EAC is only a detriment to projects like wine/proton/gtpk.
What with cloud gaming, emulation and translation there's definite little-by-little growth of gaming options on Mac. Good to see but probably slow progress in line with trends.
The funny thing is that gaming on the iPhone and iPad is very popular and gaming companies are developing AAA games for them. So Apple should, and they already do, convince them to make these games also available for the Mac since it takes almost no effort to do so. Make game developers port their Windows game to macOS, make it native and distribute them to iPhone, iPad, the Mac and even AppleTV (especially when a ray tracing capable version will be available). This is a commercially attractive option I think.
They sort of did that with game porting toolkit 2 with making it easier to port from Mac to iOS/ipados. The idea seeming to be that if the easiest way is to port from Mac to iOS then they would also release on Mac rather than directly porting to iOS.
It's a grade A winner strategy but must be consciously and intelligently pursued. Hopefully the right people are on it.
I think you will see new games become native and already released games will use CrossOver.
it's headed that way over the next 5 years
Could Crossover work for the game BodyCam?
I really hope that sometime next year during an Apple keynote that there'll be a "one more thing" moment and they reveal an Apple gamepad that you can use with your Macbook or Mac Mini/Studio - or if you want to use it for mobile gaming has something like a fold-out MagSafe iPhone mount. Really signal to the world that Apple has learned from Pippin and are now to be contended with. I don't even have an Apple device. I just want variety and for my friends on Apple to have a gaming experience, too.
It's possible that Apple is just methodically putting all of the pieces together first before they reveal their full intentions.
Need GPTK2 with AVX2 out first, which enabled a lot of things for games.
M3 Series chip with ray tracing, not vital but still good to have.
The question is, now that AVX2 is in, what else is missing that Apple needs to add before they can do Proton-like service for macOS?
I still think they need to enable eGPU support on Macs. They're not going to be able to scale up their SoC to match or exceed 4090 series. Nobody is going to buy $4k Mac Pro just to have M4 Ultra that can barely do more than 4070 at half the price.
Now, if they want to limit eGPU support to their own dGPUs, that's fine by me. Just make it available.
eGPU support is not just an Apple issue but also an issue for GPU makers (although Apple could probably hack together some drivers for some of the popular graphics cards). Either Apple or the GPU manufacturers need to create drivers for their GPUS to work on Mac, and considering how niche it is and how few people are using eGPUs compared to others, which leads to possibly financial disappointment, it won't be Apple making the drivers.
Apple is all about Good User Experience, so as long as GPTK can't deliver that end-to-end, they're not going to market it to users. App-to-run-an-app isn't that sort of experience.
But they could initiate a program of validated Windows games, with some Windows software support based on GPTK now a part of macOS, so validated Windows games could be bought in the App Store. It would be more like the sort of checks they do for games on consoles, it wouldn't be the wilder west of Proton on Steam Deck. I don't know if they'll do that, but it does seem in line with the "New Apple" we've been seeing hints of, them accepting changes to their business from the outside, yet still serving their customers.
Can you make warFrame run? I always wanna try but I’m too scared to mess something up
Yes it runs via CrossOver.
can you make a tutorial to install street fihter 6 with the last config you shown recently ? is it a paid version of the game ?
as a gamer who just switched over to mac a week ago, i see this as a win
I love it, im here for it. Especially if the apple tv can somehow get in on this action
I bought a game enhancement device for my Mac. It’s called a Geekom A7. 32 + 2 TB with Ryzen 7 and Radeon. Only $800
I feel the future conference vibe „ it runs better emulated on Mac than natively on PC”
Imo, I think it's a few things
- They know developers won't go through the trouble to get a game natively supported on Mac, so having a compatibility layer instead to streamline the process or make it easier would allow them to say Mac can be used for gaming.
- They also know Microsoft is looking more and more dire for a lot of users and people are considering switching. It's why a lot windows folk are switching to Linux, but also may switch to Mac if given enough incentive.
Been going back and forth over buying an m3 max or a Windows laptop. If this news is true, the acquisition of that MB has come quite a bit nearer.
I've got an M3 Max and it's a beast! Satisfactory and Astroneer runs perfectly like butter at 1440p.
@@johalun Good to hear! What are your specs?
M3 max price difference isn’t worth it if your only goal is to play games. Get yourself a baseline Mac mini / MacBook with 16gb ram which is insane power for everything besides games / pro video stuff….then use the remaining money saved to get yourself a windows rtx 4070 laptop/pc. Both can be connected to same set of monitor / Logitech mouse keyboard….you will be much happier and able to play everything and at better performance / video quality. That’s my current setup and very happy with it. Another added benefit is storage is much much cheaper on windows hardware and games take up lot of storage, mac is $200 for every 500gb, which is…nuts.
This should hold you over for at least 4-5 years, then re-evaluate when it’s time for next grade if a maxed out mac is finally ready for gaming, today regardless of game porting toolkit 2..mac is far from ready to play games and the overhead cost of apple tax makes it even less appealing.
Also on a separate note if you still want to get m max, at least wait for m4 max….m3 max is dead on arrival apple already stopped making them and is readying m4 which would have better gaming performance and far better ai performance for all the upcoming ai stuff
You might want to hold off until M4 series is released, especially Ultra for Studio. It might be released within a year, I heard...
I know 😉 Got a decent pc setup. I want/need a powerful laptop for video editing, After Effects, Blender. And it would be nice if it also could do a bit of baming on the side. But thank you for the extensive answer 👍
They should just make the gaming toolkit a part of the OS so nothing is needed to be done by the user in terms of setup / tweaking etc. Just buy any game from any store and it will run. Most Apple users don't want to have to jump through hoops to make things work, they just want it to work. That's the Apple way.
Apple is about UX so you're half right. But forgetting their not stamping the Apple logo on 24% of games being slow or buggy. That's why it's called EVALUATION on purpose.
one of your best videos to date. so good!
Thanks appreciate it! Not sure what makes it so different from others I have made though.
@@Andytizer a really well written/worded analysis of the brief yet very remarkable way Apple worded things during the keynote regarding Mac gaming enthusiasts. It’s crazy that GPTK has almost turned into a new “product” with keynote announcements and everything.
I wish I can "evaluate" my entire steam library very soon 😂
How about msfs 2020 does it work now?
GPTK may bring macOS some gamers. However, it won't bring revenue until game developers build games natively and sell on Apple store ...
Will this finally allow us to play Half Life Alyx VR? wtih Quest 3?
This is a big step for a bright future!
Can you make a video showing how to play AC Black Flag on Mac?
Use Parallels/VMware for best performance for AC Black Flag since it's a DirectX 9 game.
I wish Steam on Mac could use Crossover (and thus Game Porting Toolkit) as a plugin. Having Steam inside Crossover is really annoying, when I'd much rather it was a similar experience to the Steam Deck where you install the Windows games using a single version of steam - and then set all the Wine Configuration in Steam on a game by game basis.
Even if Valve isn't particularly interested in mac gaming they clearly have a strong relationship with Crossover so they'd just be supporting their business partner to give better value to their other product and improve the experience of their shared users.
So there is a way to play dx12 games on Mac?
Since last year, yes. This GPTK 2 just improves that compatibility
@@jer4rud0 Nice! For some reason I thought dx12 wouldn’t run on Mac. Maybe I’m confusing it with running parallels and parallels itself can’t do dx12.
I want to play a few 32bit mac games... but access is lost :(
Curious to know is there a realistic way to play Elden Ring on Mac?
I think the reason is, that they are a competitor to windows and want to unleash the full performance off the platform. If they would simply run all windows games there wouldn’t be much less reason to develop for Mac natively. Instead all games could be developed only for windows because all others translate it. This would bring to much power to Microsoft and the Mac platform couldn’t show its potential and competition compared to other hardware and windows.
The gap between native and translated is too large for a proton like layer imo. MacOS is not like Linux and you can build a coherent platform to work on many devices without user configuration. That’s why the Steam Deck experience is not AS EASILY available for all devices, Valve and their team have put in efforts on a hardware level for the OS. yes Gptk2 is an evolvement, but especially for the entry level chips, which are going to be the most popular ones, have too much overhead.
The new generation of arm snapdragon chips in windows laptops. Qualcom are putting pressure on Apple due to the fact that they have already made their own translation tool to game on their arm chips….they verified a lot of windows games.
Hi! I feel like why they are using words like evaluating softwares over saying the actual work that the software do is because they are trying to embed their own conversion software running natively to get the work done without any need of a 3rd party software & let me clear you APPLE takes time but does it the best.
If Apple did support these games officially, what store would the games be sold on?
Hi Andrew, the problem is, only a few of us own M3 Max.
In near future apple release M4, M4 Pro, M4 Max and M4 Pro will have similar performance to M3 Max so even Mac Mini will be capable "gaming" machine and year or year and half after that possible M5 generation will come with even more power :)
Still I’d rather have my Mac games on Steam where I have a library unlike the Mac App Store which has practically nothing and lacks a lot of functionality of Steam
Native ports are the goals because Apple can get the revenues thru selling games via AppStore. However, having a tool to "test" games that can run windows games pushes MacBook sales for those who wants to have only one computer and casually plays some windows games. A heavy gamer will not buy a Mac but a casual gamer that like Apple Ecosystem maybe will.
There is one possibility: I wonder if Mac gets really good at gaming if Apple would consider to develop a proprietary emulator, some kind of game store inside the Mac, for developers publish their games as if it was a official 1-click port solution? This way apple would have the game running and the revenue of the sold game, as the publisher will expand the number of devices they can sell their games to. Kinda what Valve did with Linux if you buy it thru their store.
App store sales, big win. Translation layer "just working" also a big win as it establishes gamer-readiness and prestige for the platform, which leads to more app store games in the future.
The biggest thing that happened for Mac Gaming is the new windows ARM laptops with the X Elite chip. More and more games will get native ARM support and will come over to the Mac much easier.
It's not abiut that. Switching game from Direct X to Metal and optimalization is a lot more work.
Sure hope it continues!
Please just make it so I can play Ghost Wildlands on MAC I like to play it with my dad and a few buddies so I have to keep a win 10 machine around :( Also crossover is a cool idea but they need a compatibility list on what settings are best for each game. The only game that worked was Star Wars battlefront collection. I tried Robocop and a few others but they didn't work. The Ubisoft client seemed to work and I was able to attempt to launch it it just sits at the logo screen no errors :(
Apple has to be paying for these native ports right? I read Capcom’s quarterly reports and no mention of App Store RE sales.
Used to have such high hopes before..but even this does not bring them up.
Seeing snapdragon X processors and Windows on ARM playing games makes me sad.. If they only made BootCamp back.. then there would not be a need for game porting toolkits and stuff like this. We could easily play easy anti cheat games and Valorant because we could run Vanguard on a Mac Machine that runs Windows in a native version as secondary OS...
I always assumed the goal was to get more games into the Mac App Store or Apple Arcade which apple can then take a cut from. Whether they're truly optimised ports or fully native compiled apps is irrelevant to the end user as long as it's playable and something they'd be willing to pay for.
It's about time, I love my Mac, but I bring a Windows machine or xbox when I'm traveling on vacation or for work.
Hey Andrew, I love you 💙
Gei
@@McDowell666😂😂😂🥴💀
Imagine all you need to play your favorite games and be active as a creative or student is a mac mini... That's my dream!
If I was at the healm of Valve, I’d build this straight into steam… boom suddenly you have a whole new audience with fairly deep pockets to buy some of your games that already work on mac fairly well. It could even sell more steam decks in the long run… it’s crazy to me that they are not jumping on this…
What I've not seen in any of these videos is the discussion of Rosetta 2 and how long it will be supported. While it's quite true that Apple wants to get more and more PC and other games compatible on the Mac, perhaps they're just trying to get people used to and interested in the Mac as a gaming platform so that in a few years (2026? 2027?), if they remove support for Rosetta 2, there will be enough demand from users to make developers create native versions of these games, and by that time, with M5 or M6 chips, Macs will be able to match, or nearly match, the capabilities of windows machines.
Even though Apple has lots of money, they can't just buy a gaming community on Mac. That's why I think they keep hammering games on Mac each WWDC, sometimes with a port, sometimes talking about the GPTK. When they do that they're slowly putting on consumers and developers head that there's a space for gaming on Mac. Slowly building that critical mass until developers take the platform seriously.
I’ve been using Macs since 1988, for my commercial film lab and personally. One thing I can say is that Mac users aren’t big game players. Yes, there are some. But unlike Windows, most Mac users use their computers for other things, and just don’t look at gaming as important. If they do, it’s on their iPhones and to a lesser extent on their tablets.
They need to focus on porting for end users first. Then it will create the market and developers will find it worth it make native games. They’re doing it the wrong way round atm. But as you say looks like it’s shifting
I would love to game on Mac but I need the variety of the PC platform. For new and old games alike. Apple cannot get that variety by momentum, it cannot get it by doing partnerships, but they can do it by just making Macs compatible with PC games.
Apple should create a Proton-like translation layer that’s downloaded when a Windows game/application is run, just like how Rosetta downloads when an Intel app is ran. Then Apple could start selling Windows games in a new game centric store separate from the Mac Store.
Apple can remove all the technical barriers they want, but they’ll never excite developers enough if gamers buy Windows gaming PCs by default due to the large library of games. A free Proton-like layer giving you access to a large library of games would bring gamers over way faster, which would motivate developers to start making versions of their games for Mac sooner then they will with Apple’s current strategy.
Proton-like translation layer its the way how to do OpenGL calls from Direct calls. Its not the way how to run x86 game on arm CPU. Steam Deck -- it's a x86 machine; Proton + Wine its the way how to run games inside Steam ecosystem without Windows and DirectX. If u want, you can run these games natively on Steam Deck -- without any translations layers using Windows.
Run Windows x86 games on Mac natively, without any barriers -- it's impossible. Crossover also use Rosetta 2 to run games. Do something to avoid significant loss of game performance while u use translation layer -- is not impossible. For example, developers can precompile shaders, and use other optimizations to improve game performance while it run using translation layer.
But this strategy requires time and a little effort from the developers.
@@user-dx3ts5yk5o A Proton-like translation layer, similar to what’s used in Game Porting Toolkit translates DirectX calls to Metal, not OpenGL. Apple dropped support for OpenGL a while ago. Rosetta is responsible to translating x86 code to Arm.
I have a dream... Play BF3/BF4 / DCS on maxout MacStudio.
DCS :') i've been trying to make it run for a while now, that would be my dream, fun thing is, DXVK + some tricks in crossover make it run with graphical glitches
to be judged not by the label on the CPU, but by the character of its performance !
I wish they could figure out how to get anticheat to work on macs so I can play multiplayer in Elden Ring
Yeah you said same thing last year e
I think Apple is in "wait & see" mode. If we make this tool better and more available which will happen first: 1. Enough games get ported to Mac that we can start collecting enough gaming revenue to press this lever harder and make a bigger investment in porting marketing and dev outreach 2. The Porting Tool Kit catches enough fire among gamers that a substantial amount of additional revenue is generated by Mac device purchases that they invest more heavily in releasing a more performant translation layer.
Apple is going to do what makes Apple the most money. I don't think they know which will make them more money faster.
I think if they press lever #2 it's more likely to generate more revenue for them not through device sales but instead through proving to developers there's a large segment of gamers who want to play their games on Mac who wouldn't get to play it any other way. Developers will optimize and target Macs when they believe it's in their financial interest to do so.
Portable game console maybe?
From Apple? I doubt it
Do you think Apple would ever consider providing financial incentives to game studios to help end the cycle of few AAA mac games -> "few AAA mac gamers" -> few AAA mac games?
I solved it with desktop PC + Macbook + Parsec. No compatibility problems and no need to spend too much money on a Max chip.
I have that setup as well, but considering how powerful these new Macs are, as well as how much more powerful they will get over time, I just think getting a desktop only for gaming is a waste of power and space. And depending on how much GPTK's feature set and performance will grow over time, I might just ditch my PC and go all-in on Mac.
if apple cared about gaming they would support vulkan.
if gamedevs cared about mac users they would support metal. it's been around for longer than vulkan.
@@meru_lpz metal is vender lock-in rubbish. It and directx are holding gaming back.
@@happygofishing DirectX is what enabled PC gaming in the first place, and if developers reeeally wanted to use Vulkan in macOS they can just use MoltenVK.
@@meru_lpz yes, but nowadays directx only exists to lock developers into the Microsoft ecosystem, and the same with metal for apple.
Directx no longer needs to exist.
Apple has a chance to make a Switch like killer. With more adoption into Gaming plus the benefit of being able to code for all Apple products simply. Soon i can see us being able to play on the phone, then pushing the game to the Apple TV, then if you cannot game on tv easily move it to your iMac or iPad all at the same time your controller and headphones follow you as you go.
One of the big problems with Mac is not just the lack of support for running games but also Apple's disregard for legacy applications. For example, when they migrated to 64-bit, 32bit native games simply stopped working. To me, this is a lack of respect.
What is The game at 3:30?
Spends I’ve already built up a labrary
Apple needs to create customers for its increasing CPU/GPU performance every year. And the majority of the buyers of Macs or MacBooks use them for Emails, browsing and media consumption, for which they reached the ceiling with their M1. In order to make upgrades attractive at all in the future, you need enable gaming. Ironically, the performance penalty of emulation is playing into the hands of Apple.
Apple just wants as many games running on mac as possible right now so then when a native port comes out and it runs much better they can sell the idea of just making a native mac port a consideration for most devs however they refuse to allow the use of vulkan or opengl in any real fashion forcing devs to use metal and they don't really wanna do that because metal is apple specific thus requires extra resources to implement for what is at best a small boost in sales. If they really cared about gaming on mac they'd ask devs to use metal but have updated vulkan and opengl capabilities baked into the os so that devs can still easily port pc/console games to mac without needing to know metal api.
Low supply creates high demand. The first few 5-star AAA hits that sell big on Mac (because of lower competition) will open a flood gate. That's their hope, and seems smart, but requires careful steps to get there.
They need to buy Square Enix and make all their games Mac OS exclusives. Then start production on Final Fantasy XVII, and Vagrant Story II.