Why Scottish Independence Might be Dead (for now)
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- čas přidán 11. 02. 2024
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The SNP faces a decline in popularity, trailing behind Labour in Scottish polls. Leader Humza Yousaf's challenges add to the uncertainty. This video delves into the status of the Scottish independence movement amidst these developments.
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It's important to realize the SNP is made up of many different factions who all want independence for their own reasons. The SNP won't last very long in a post independent Scotland, and will inevitably split.
Which is fine -
Isn't the main split erupting because of monarchy vs republic
Isn't it the plan, kinda ?
This still doesn’t answer the question of whether independence is dead. The answer is yes and you just don’t want to admit it.
If independence was so popular in Scotland, why did the Independence campaign lose in 2014?
Also, if independence is so popular amongst the people, surely Scots would stick with the SNP no matter what, as a bandwagon for independence.
The fact of the matter is, not all Scots that vote SNP is want independence.
For many, the SNP became the ‘Scottish interest party’ rather than strictly the ‘independence party’ - Sturgeon herself admitted all this in 2019.
So my point here is that it isn’t clear independence was ever a massively popular idea amongst Scottish voters. The decline of the SNP is yet more evidence of this.
That's ok. The political parties are basically 3 Unionist and 2 Independence. After Independence they will morph into whatever the country votes for. Left, centre left, centre right or very unlikely right. What Scotland won't have, is this constant abuse from Unionist parties on every single policy good or bad, because their job is to protect this vile UK union and sow dissent.
Johnson is a gift for the SNP, but Truss and Sunak is a gift for Labour.
😂
@@shivanshbisht9439 Every Conservative is a gift for the SNP. We never vote for them and yet we are ruled by them. It's the definition of tax without representation.
America rebelled on that basis as we should too. Not to mention the centuries of Abuse by the English. Genocidal cunts.
Luv and Peace.
Why? That doesnt actually make sense
@@godlovesyou1995because the worse the English government leader, the stronger the case for Scottish independence
@@aceman0000099 Could be easily argued that Truss was worse than Bojo
Seems very similar to what has happened here in Canada with Quebec. After decades of separatist government and two failed referendums, Quebec eventually just stopped re-electing the PQ and switched their support to the CAQ, which is autonomist but not separatist. The separatist movement isn't completely dead, around a third of Quebecers would still vote for independence, but the situation has come to a kind of begrudging standstill since 1995 and doesn't look like it's going to change radically anytime soon.
The important thing is that they had the right to choose.
Sounds nothing like Scotlands situation, Scotland is the oldest country on these isles, existed long before any union with England.
Prior last referendum independence was consistently polling below 30%, ten years on its polling consistently around 50% and has been for years now, the union is held up by the older voters, we know this, it’s just a waiting game, these generations of older people grew up in a time where they had three channels pumping our British propaganda 24/7, those days are long gone, the youth don’t buy into it over their European identity.
Yeah but didn’t Quebec get like 3 gos at a referendum? We’ve only had one. If I remember right didn’t Quebec get up to about 49% yes in the third and final one? And to me that goes to show that allowing them actually depresses the Yes vote - but I could be way off the mark if they only had one vote in 1995.
Guess the difference is that Quebec has never been a country in its own right. Scotland is one of the oldest countries in the world and is in a union with 3 other countries
@@New-ye2fl Not every independent voter wants to leave the UK only to be subsumed by the EU. A lot of independence voters want to be completely independent from both the UK and Europe
Scotland vote against independence in 2014. People went to vote under the threat of being out of the European Union if they voted to abandon United Kingdom. Two years later, the Brexit referendum was held. Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain in the European Union, but the overall result was to leave the EU. I don't know. It seems like an unfair situation for the Scots. They didn't vote for independence due to the threat of being expelled from the EU, and shortly afterward, they end up outside despite voting the opposite.
Nope. They held the vote in 2014 KNOWING that there would be a Brexit vote for the whole of the UK later on. So, they voted to stay in and participate in that vote under the conditions set. Just because they wanted in more doesn't mean it was unfair ! 38% of Scots still voted out, that's not an insignificant amount
@@randomcomputer7248 so 38% is "not an insignificant amount" but 44% is not worth another vote?
@@brianbks02 if 44% is worth another vote then 38% is too then ?
If Scotland had secured Scexit in 2014 they'd have achieved leaving the EU at the same time
Thus, by default any Scottish nationalist in 2014 was a Brexiteer
Your comment is as dumb as saying if the U.S held a referendum on whether to leave NATO and for example the state of New Jersey alone Votes against leaving NATO but other states vote to leave NATO then the State of New Jersey should now be able to leave the U.S so it can join NATO by itself
A lot of the comments are just ignoring what TL;DR are saying and arguing against points they either clarified or did not make
It's because it's reporting on something they don't like. They probably didn't even watch the video.
People don't watch videos, they read titles. Try it yourself, look up a video longer than five minutes and see how many comments reference anything that's said after the first few minutes.
Probably because TLDR is a company that is made up of reject financial times editors and Sunak suck ups that have to toe closer to fact just because CZcams has higher standards then Oligarch Toilet Rags.
Not watched the video as historically TLDR don't have a clue about UK politics, only English.
Their reporting on independence is woeful
@@elliotwilliams7421 Is it 'woeful' or is it not biased enough for you? You want them to say what you want to hear, not what's actually true.
These videos are so informative for those of us who don't live in the UK and have only a surface level knowledge of subjects like this. Thanks for your work!
Ya😅
informative propaganda but not accurate
Then tell us what is accurate.@@johnnicolson467
TLDR only has a surface understanding
Then please, feel free to step in and fill the void.@@wpjohn91
Who proofreads this? "Dorment?" Really?
Yes, shouldn't the title be "dormant"?
Typos in the graphics are all too common in TLDR videos. I'm not sure ANYONE proof-reads them but if someone one does, he/she isn't the best speller.
@@user-fj7df3ng7z Some channels make mistakes on purpose. The purpose being that it gets people to comment so as to correct the mistake, which boosts engagement. Mind you the mistakes have to be relatively minor so people don't just dismiss the channels' content as a whole, but a spelling mistake or slightly off graphic fits in perfectly with that.
This channel is a content farm lol
I’m a federalist although I want to preserve the UK’s unity and existence but at the same time I would prefer that the governance of the UK is reformed and decentralised with each nation and region having its own self governance. This might present a good opportunity to promote that federalist option.
You can keep the union in britain, but the island of Ireland will run entirely by the Republican government🇮🇪
@@Ceiteach.O.DuibhirI don't want to join the republic
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir take them, if Brexit has proven anything its that they're more trouble than they're worth, have fun with the crazy unionists in the republic lmao
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir It might surprise you to learn that a great many Northern Irish don't want to be in the Republic xP
(edited "millions" to "a great many". The point of the message remains the same)
@@KingAgniKaitoo bad
The SNP is only flying the flag for independence no one would really want them in an independent Scotland there would be a multitude of new parties.
Who says that they'd give up power?
If they're willing to steal from the voters who says you'd get a vote after Westminster let's them off the leash.
Thats the point doofus.
So they arent ruled by Tories but can have a choice of parties representing them. Cannot really happen until Scotland leaves.
Completely agree
I agree but to call someone a doofus because you disagree with them is petty behaviour.
@@MrAlistairheath oh sorry, I didnt realize politics in the UK avoided pettiness. I thought it was the modus operandi.
I think this is a fairly well done appraisal of the situation and the future of Scottish politics. For years the SNP had higher levels of support among the population than independence. For the first time (basically ever) independence is more popular than the SNP and it looks set to continue that way for a long time. This I think reflects an important maturation of the debate on Scottish independence and as this video remarks, important to no longer lazily view the fate of the SNP and independence as intertwined.
England's political system has totally failed its citizens,its antiquated and almost "medeavil" in its function,where the only choice is between two has beens who are just regurgitating the same or similar polices that have brought nothing but demise to the country.
Unless someone is a sadomasochist and dose not do critical thinking and has no ethics and wants to swallow more of the same regurgitated bull shit from third rate politicians,who most them are not even capable of running a tuck shop i would say where well and truly fucked.
Its a shame we here in Scotland cant escape this insanity quicker,the sooner we get out of this so called union of "equals" now thats an oxymoron,the better for Scotland.
It largely is. The Labour Party and the Tories are not about to advocate independence and as yet no party is there to fill the space.
Voting for MSPs and MPs still make SNP very important. We need to keep a majority in Holyrood. Until we get another referendum, voting SNP reduces the amount of Unionist politicians. Don't be fooled by people separating the two. That is Unionist divisive crap!!
@@graemeglass7566unionist divisive crap, you nats are voting for a border wall and a new currency between your biggest trading partner, the rest of the UK.
@@graemeglass7566 Unionists being divisive, quite ironic mate.
I am just preparing for a very important interview and this video absolutely saved my life, it was comprehensive, extensive, absolutely beautifully structured and understandable and I am so grateful right now! Thank you! :)
An independence supporting friend who lives in Fife but happens to be English sent me this comment on Scotland's struggle for self determination...
I subscribe to Quora and an Irish citizen quoted this which was buried in a UK government spokesperson's remarks. I congratulated him on pinpointing the truth of why WM wants to keep Scotland:
"If Scotland does become independent, the rump of the UK(r-UK) will lose most of its fishing waters and Exclusive Economic Zone(EEZ), nearly all its oil and gas reserves, close to a third of its land area, massive renewable energy resources, a huge part of its freshwater reserves, and a parking place for its nuclear weapons and the nuclear submarines which carry them."
This is why "No to Section 30", plain and simple.
The full might of the Unionist media, politicians, civil servants, MI5 and 77th Brigade work tirelessly to persuade Scots that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to run their own country. Fortunately the younger generations are not that easily fooled.
UK Gov commissioned polling in 2021 confirms that the desire for independence has greatly increased in younger voters since 2014. 82% of 18 - 24s would now vote Yes, as would 81% of 25 - 34s and 61% of 35 - 55s. However, over 55s are more in favour of the union with 44% of 55 - 64s supporting Yes and only 27% of over 65s supporting independence.
There is clear evidence that Scots are much less likely to become more conservative and/or become unionists as they age… Every year 50K new young voters replace the 50K older voters who have ‘departed’… Tick tock… Demography will get us there!
I don`t understand the connection with fresh water reserves. I have seen this mentioned before. Do Scots believe they supply England with water?
@@clownofthetimes6727Scotland has 90% of the UK's fresh water resources. In the decades to come, the climate may change in such a way that fresh water becomes increasingly important for England. Some predict that drought will take over much of England by 2030 and many regions of England running dry in 2040.
@@aceman0000099As someone who was never that good with geology and might need the "explain like I'm 5"-level answers, does that mean Scotland has the most fresh-water lakes / snow / rain to refill freshwater etc, and England doesn't have much of that on their own? Isn't England supposed to be very rainy?
@@goranisacson2502 yes, Scotland has its huge lochs which are surprisingly deep. There's more water in Loch Ness than in all the lakes of England put together
@@goranisacson2502England is rainy but pretty flat, really flat in some places.
As someone else said, loch Ness has more fees water than the whole of England. Scotland has a further 30000 fresh water lochs
England is against independence as it would leave England with a smaller footprint than Scotland and totally dependent on foreign food, water and energy. Mixed with their population density rising the UK credit rating would take a big hit.
Simply put, England can't afford to lose Scotland, it's water and energy resources
4 trillion in oil has been pulled from the ground in the last 40 years or so, in the same time the UK government ran up 4 trillion in debt.
UK openly admit that oil dropped the economy up through the last recession.
It's not dead, it will have its moment
It had its moment, in 2014. The numbers simply don't add up (indeed, it would currently be catastrophic). Even the SNP are starting to realise that constant focus on constitutional shennanigans is becoming counter-productive. The only way forward for the SNP is to run the country successfully, to the point where things would be demonstrably better under indi than under the status quo. We are a long, long way from that right now.
There needs to be an investigation of the investigation of the SNP / Sturgeon.
The police have been very public with the accusations, but fail to press charges. To me, that looks like a political hit job.
Likewise for brexit, boris, nige, et al…
the second after the press attacks the SNP all the charges against them seem to be forgotten about as if some mysterious group of blue and red men pulled some strings
The Salmond debacle too.
PPE for example lots of criminal stuff going on down in Westminster nothing seems to been done about it
Of course it was a political hit job. It can be nothing else.
The level of vitriol directed at the SNP for an apparent shortfall in membership fees of around half a million pounds (their own capital as an entity too, not public funds) is well, well, well out of proportion to any wrongdoing (though there was never any wrongdoing in the first place so the point is kind of moot).
Meanwhile, the Tories palm off actual billions to the Michelle Mones of the world and what do we hear about it? "SNP baaaad! >:(", "Independence is deeeead!!!1!"
The only way a Labour Westminster government will "kill off" (for now) Scottish (or Welsh) independence support is with a move away from FPTP in general elections to stop the UK electing the Tories on a minority of the vote. But while Labour might be a little more amenable to the Scots than the Tories have been, they're still very much going to be focused on England simply due to the relative sizes of the countries - a key point in why people who support independence say that the "union" does not work. So it's quite unlikely that independence will ever be killed off and there will always be a significant proportion of the country in favour of it.
That's not FPTP it's the Parliamentary constituencies. Even if we had PR or AV the Tories would still gain from Parliamentary constituencies, and if you want to get rid of that it's a much harder argument.
Except that same mechanism is what allows governments to form with actual majorities.
@@johnnotrealname8168 And that's worked out really well for us...
@@bujin1977It is okay.
@@johnnotrealname8168 No, it really isn't.
Work together - screw hatred and nationalism
I don't often comment on things but I think this video is a tad misguided - SNP don't define the independence movement but are seen as the flagbearers for it right now as it's the largest party. The greens and Alba are also existing and while the SNP does have infighting right now and has sunk in the polls, the independence support has remained quite static around 45-50%. I think to truly understand the independence movement you have to actually live in Scotland and any outside statistics won't really give an insight into our behaviours.
Scottish people aren't stupid and they are lending their support to labour in order to get rid of a near billionaire PM who is leader of a party who only wants to make for it's buddies and lied on daily basis.
I think that’s a fair statement, what I would like to know is how the people of England like me can help build unity with Scotland. England is most definitely going labour soon which historically has been quite strong in Scotland. Perhaps we can come together then and shake things up as a team.
This is a running theme I see with comments on independence from media pundits, it’s never from those actually originating in the country nor do they actually go and ask Scottish people what *they* think. And even then you need to go up and down the country for that; opinions on the borders for instance are often quite different from those further up.
So no one can understand another nation’s motives unless they live there? We may as well pack in international politics altogether then
@@MadDoodles There are polls for a reason. Polls that indicate that only a minority want independence. In any case, independence movements seem to be bullying countries into it, or provinces, like New Caledonia getting three referenda on independence. It is such a stupid thing. They got a local parliament, they have legislative power of England and they had a referendum. Separatism is a threat to the fabric of the nation and ought to be suppressed.
As someone from a region strong independence movement, I don't think a failed party is related to the movement itself, but just can slow it down...
Only failed because of the torrent of media spin from Unionist papers and media. They are doing their job to sow dissent and division. Yet Indy support remains solid. There has not been one campaign since 2014 on independence. Unionists are dying out replaced by young adults polling 80%+ YES. SNP aren't failing. Weak members and supporters are being swayed by a hostile media.
Independence is only a political game. There’s no benefit to it
100%. The idea that people have swung from yes to No and therefore independence is dead is complete wishful thinking by the british establishment.
Independence for Québec is dead. Fevers can break.
@@donatist59 Following your logic, Canada itself is still part of the UK!
Fantastic analysis in this video
As a dead Scot myself, this was very insightful
The presenter doesn't know Scottish politics very well and makes the assumption that the independence of Scotland completely lies with the SNP. It doesn't. The rest of the UK are about to find that out.
The people of Scotland are sovereign, even Westminster acknowledges that. We don't need anyone's permission for Scotland to become Independent. We have our own laws (Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath, etc) going back hundreds of years that Westminster were trying to airbrush out of history.
Salvo, Scottish Liberation Movement, ALBA, ISP, to name a few are the real influential groups. But most importantly, independence will happen in Scotland, not by Westminster.
Anyway, the Union is dead. Scotland will inevitably be an independent country again.
seems to ignore the very basic fact that the numbers used are wrong. Independence YES voters are currently at 53% and stands at 75% among the younger section of the population (18-45 years old). It is only a matter of time.
You lot have been saying that for ten years, and the polls ( should you ever figure out how to read them) show that.
Aye, until they realise that independance means having to work, have a clue about your country and give a sh*t. Odd how the kids seem to change their minds after that., but it's ok, they'll have voted in another random with 0 connection to the country to rule it by then.
@@Pizza23333 All the polls are garbage, they're all inherently biased.
It's not a secret that younger Scottish folk are more pro independence, and they're not getting less pro-Indy as they age, unlike we were told.
Because of course peoples political views do not change with age especially when you have your pension invested in the UK scheme.
HUMSA USLESS WHO VOTED HIM IN
As an Anglo-Welsh person, I deeply regret this news.
We have to dump Scotland - preferably now but inevitably later - as it is now a permanent dead albatross around our necks, the stench of the decline of which grows every day.
Scottish independence would be dreadful for everyone, but worst for the Scottish. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be given the choice.
Scottish independence would be dreadful for England. When that free natural resource tap is turned off what will they do? 90+% of the UK’s oil and gas fields lie in Scottish waters. Scotland is a net exporter of food while England must import most of its. The majority of UK fish landings are in Scottish ports and with 100% of the worlds Scotch whisky production, currently worth £5 billion pa to the UK Treasury, it’s a mystery why anyone would question the viability of renewable energy rich Scotland in the EU and not isolated Tory destroyed England. Your schools are collapsing, rapists walk the streets because your prisons are full, your beaches and riverbanks are covered in sh1t, teenagers are stabbed to death daily, no one can get a GP appointment, your doctors and nurses strike weekly pushing up waiting times for vital operations, your previous PM crashed the economy, tanked the pound, added £100’s pm to mortgages and, according to the governor of the Bank of England, pensions were just hours from being wiped from existence. Not to mention the proven, pathological liar before her that was content to see, “bodies piled in their thousands”, as a response to a lethal public health emergency. All that after removing the country from the biggest single market on the planet effectively imposing economic sanctions upon yourselves.
You do you, we’ll go our own way.
@@glasgovipsolara well, that was a lot, very little of it true though. Typical blaming of everything around you, no responsibility taken.
The oil claims are twaddle and have been SNP propaganda for decades. It comes from an agreement about legal jurisdiction rather than ownership.
If you think Scottish teenagers are well behaved cherubs and your waterways pristine, I suspect you've never been to Scotland.
All your claims are myopic half truths. If you want to be independent, that's fine, but your claims of being a beleaguered eloi under a fascist junta is laughable.
You want to go it alone? Fine, but you won't be able to blame all your problems on everyone else, see how well you fare when you have to take responsibility.
As crap as tressemé was, she didn't have her garden dug up by police and her incredibly cruddy camper van confiscated.
@@LudvigIndestrucable - “very little of it true”? Please, give us the truth. “Blaming of everything”, Westminster has blamed the EU, the French, the Germans, the Irish, immigrants, asylum seekers, doctors, nurses, train drivers, “remoaners”, the disabled, the unemployed and just about everyone else but themselves.
Our beaches and riverbanks are not like yours, covered in ordure. Our water is under public ownership, no shareholders to satisfy with profits from the public and no government bail outs.
Our teenagers are not being slaughtered in our streets weekly as is the case in England.
If you think your government in Westminster is not a tad fascist after demonising foreigners, curbing the right to protest, trying to stop channel 4 news from asking hard questions, bunging billions to chums and party donors, deporting black UK citizens back to Caribbean countries they left as children, sending vans around English cities emblazoned with “immigrants go home” and the Grenfell debacle then YOU are part of the problem.
Which of my “claims are myopic half truths”? Enlighten us all.
The performative police dig at the FM’s address was and is seen by most Scots as fulfilling Michael Goves imperative, as detailed in the recently leaked report on the union that he used Covid funds to commission and spent years defying court orders to make public, in that the union can be saved by decapitating the leadership of the independence movement. Salmond was first, then Sturgeon. Investigating the use of party funds donated by members? Where’s the crime? Where, after 3 years of “looking at the books”, are any charges? The entire farrago is not novel. The British state, ask any Irishman, is adept at such behaviour. The same methods were used to stop Malta from becoming independent and many other countries, now independent, I’m sure experienced similar tactics. And the deflection works. Where are the police investigations into the billions given to day-old companies for useless PPE? Michele Mone is cutting about in a new yacht! Paid for with OUR TAXES! Others with zero experience of medical supplies, like Grant Shaps(?) local pub landlord were handed millions of taxpayers money - where are the tents on their lawns?
Face it, you’re an idiot who thinks he knows something about Scottish politics when in actual fact you’re simply an ignoramus who will regurgitate the Daily Mail op-ed’s about Scotland and believe you’re informed. Take it from someone born in Scotland and who lives and works in Scotland, you know nothing.
No one seems to care what the English think. What if they're tired of all this? What if they are more than willing to give them independence, whether they want it or not?
I don’t mean to start caring now what the English think.
@bufferly5595 Fair enough. So, if they do just cut ties, no hard feelings.
English people are tired of this because it's an issue that has been resolved not once in 2014, but twice with the crashing of SNP popularity. The only reason Scottish people want independence is because of our economic incompetence atm, which is felt equally in places like Northern England. Fix the economy, and the cries for independence go away or at least get quieter.
As an Englishman, I'm tired of Scottish people acting like Independence would be a magic bullet for everything wrong with Scotland, when in reality they would essentially be putting their people through a 2nd Brexit - excluded from the British economy, and having to wait to be allowed into the EU if they were allowed at all. It would hurt everyone involved and solve almost nothing. We Brits are in this shit together, if Scotland splinters off it only makes everything worse for both sides, especially in the short term.
The minute the English decide they want to dissolve the UK it will happen. Being the majority gives them that power.
Hard to have an independence referendum with the English supreme court says you cant have one. That's all there is to it. As long as Westminster says no, Scotland remains a prisoner. The SNP are still going strong and will have a majority of seats in Scotland, despite what England centric media hopes and prays for. In the end, a union kept together by 'No you can't have a vote because I say so.' won't be healthy.
Both the head and deputy of the Supreme Court are senior judges in Scottish law.
So the fact you can’t even get that right throws everything else you say into reasonable doubt.
As an Englishman I don't want Scotland to split away from us, but I want us back in the EU, even if we have to get rid of our currency. In the end we would benifit from being part of a large group of countries in one collective state. We need more unity in a world that's slowly falling apart.
SNP are finished
One of the drivers for independence has been the fact that for the past 14 years Scots have had a government in Westminster that they didn’t vote for, one that a majority may have actively detested. That is likely to change this year. Dormant is probably a good description of how the independence issue is likely to remain for the rest of the 20s.
Scots will never have a say in Westminster as long as they elect a party that (even if they win every seat in Scotland) only ever can represent about 3.6% of the UK population.
The leading concern of the Scots having to put up with a govt that an England majority votes for while Scotland only partially votes in favour it of would still stand.
Scotland hasn't voted Labour for a long time.
@@ou7shined972It is the issue with a lot of these independence movements. There is the argument from culture and nationalism which I sympathise with although I do not think independence is a justifiable result however there is the dubious one of we just vewy liberal unlike the Tories or insert Centre-Right (If they even are.) party here. It is the same with Catalonia. The culture @~?£ is bull@~?£ as the reaction to a Christian woman who could speak Gàidhlig proves and the latter is meaningless because the socially liberal party gets into power soon. More often than not it is all a scam as the Scottish National Party proves.
I can see that dormancy lasting until the next election when the people of Scotland see how bland and unambitious Starmer has to be to not upset middle Englanders. IMHO that is the moment that independence will be guaranteed, when people realise that Westminster will never change things for the better
Nice video!
Remember. You are here forever.
Scot's realise that they will never get independence unless they kick out the Tories 1st.
That wont make any difference. Getting rid of the incompetent SNP and replacing them with a party with an actual plan might help boost the numbers though.
that's ... not how that works , i like the spirit but no
no serious party would back a vote like that especially Britain's weakened state. - reform uk might simply to be accelerationist towards fascism
Best you could hope for is a constitutional reform to the union to improve everyone's better. simply put to be a patriot you need a country worth being proud off.
Proportional representation would get the whole UK out from under these fuckpigs
@@britishninjawhats ur defn of facism?
The full name of the Tory party is "The conservative and unionist party" because it believes in the UK as a union of countries.
So it's no surprise that they are for keeping the UK together.
We have proved the snp are not capable of running a bath never mind the country
Still better than the rest, that’s the problem unionists have, as bad as SNP are, the rest are worse with proven track records.
@@New-ye2fltell that to the Scottish people
Labour is currently leading in Scotland
@@MrToymaster1 leading what? Last time I checked SNP still hold power In Scotland.
@@New-ye2fl
Polls currently have Labour ahead of the SNP
@@MrToymaster1 polls matter again.
You have seen the latest polls, right? 40 SNP 13 Labour, 54% Yes. Looks pretty good to me. All the Muscular Unionism is weak and feeble posturing and everyone sees through it.
This is a strange misconception. Support for independence doesnt decline because the SNP lose a majority.
he never said it did, he said SNP are the flag bearers for the movement and with them dead the movement has no political voice.
If the SNP lose many of their Westminster seats in 2024 and then also lose the Scottish Parliament elections in 2026 they'd not have a significant vehicle to push for an Independence referendum.
It's not a matter of support for independence declining, it's a matter of another referendum being politically unviable.
Unionists desperate for something to cheer about as independence support grows over 50%, they know they are sunk.
They never said that though
you have to keep in mind as well that this election will be filled with tactical voting in order to get the Tories out its not that labour are the good choice its that they are the only choice.
The silent voters decide everything ! This is why if the SNP want to stay in power they have to start listening to the silent voters, reflecting their concerns and values. Humza Yousaf only appeals to loyal SNP members. If labour win a majority in Scotland it is only because the SNP can’t get their message straight, not that suddenly Scots love Labour again.
Even the die hard nats have had enough of Humza.
Or it could be because Humza Yousaf is just generally unlikeable and not a very good politician?
Hard to listen to people who are silent. Also, most people assume that the "silent" people agree with them
i don't think thats true, lots of people (lots of labour voters) like humza more than starmer, from my experience. every single Scottish labour voter I've spoken to has said as much, although I cant see any official polls on it; I imagine it would be difficult to measure.
Living in a country where “unionism” only has one primary meaning, it’s always a little disorienting to hear Tories described as unionists.
Very Interesting video. I have a question though what would an independent England look like?
Tory and Labour governments, both run by goldman sachs and jp morgan.
They would never get asked because the English would vote for it.
The independence referendum was, in my opinion, the precursor project to brexit regarding Cambridge Analytica and the power of media in affecting the undecided portion of the voting demographic. With a heavy portion of the "no" campaign funded by Conservatives and their partners, you can actually see a keen, singular thread focused on census manipulation.
If you look at the Scottish independence referendum and the "no" campaign's quite aggressive messaging, Scotland would be "cut off," "probably sheared off the EU, which would be disastrous," and "forced to try to find new import/export links, which would destroy our economy."
Ultimately it was this slew of messaging that swayed the undecided portion to *juuuust* opt for no.
Then, later, these EXACT SAME MESSAGES - IN REVERSE - would be utilised to sway the undecided voters to voting for Brexit. "if we don't cut ties, it'll be disastrous for our autonomy!," "If we don't forget new export routes soon we'll be at the behest of our EU overlords!," and so on.
They took literally the exact same argument, convinced the populace of one thing, then within the same half decade, convinced them that the opposite was true... and the majority took that bait.
It proved how fickle the deciding segment of the votership is, in the UK, and how with enough money, the outcome can always be decided by those with big purses. Many will disagree they had their vote swayed by calculated media - but as Twain once said, "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled."
I think you don't give the voters enough credit.
You can argue the exact opposite in relation to people who voted yes to Scottish independence.
They did not care about potentially losing access to our largest trading partner (rUK) but they insisted that Britain leaving the EU was economic suicide as the EU were our largest trading partner.
To me this highlights that for many independence voters (Scottish/Brexit) their reasons were ideological more than practical and logical.
@stuartsummers1303 that's true - some heart, some head, but I think what this new age of "cash for cookies" has showed proof of is that those *without* premeditated conclusions/votes were swayed quite successfully.
@SaintGerbilUK I'm not saying people are stupid - just that we're easily manipulated. That's not stupidity, if anything that just makes them susceptible/too trusting of new information, which is arguably admirable in some ways.
But if you look at the voting intention that was definite yes, definite no, and "undecided" at the start, then the final outcome, it's almost certainly hugely weighted by the undecided crowd in the end.
I remember those scare tactics ,Scots were being told they'd lose access to sterling ,to BBC ,and even MotD ,the English right wing,typically when it came to a "home country" wanting to leave , behaved abysmally ,their attitude to democracy is a pretence.
The next event to affect the Scottish Independence movement (not including the next UK parliament election) will be whether Northern Ireland gets a vote on Irish reunification, and which way that vote goes. It's not a stretch to see Irish reunification being the tipping point that breaks up mainland Britain into three countries; and if this does occur European reintegration also seems likely.
Except that each country would be too small to join the EU.
As the EU have said many times.
Edit: Some small minded people below seems to think that size is entirely population. Where as I was referring to their economic size and that they would be a net detractor from the EU economy, and while they have many they don't want any more for now at least.
If a country as small as Iceland can apply, all of them can. EU has never said no UK country is too small to join, either by population or landmass.
@@SaintGerbilUK What a bizarre argument ,given the amount of EU countries with similar populations.
Did they sneak in through a window?
Your assuming there will be ah eu, I ain't joking, the Donald looks like he's going tay win x election, that's tatties or the side, for the eu and nato, time tay look at the bigger picture, iyd rather have ah couple of nuk sub's oot there that even the yanks can't find, insurance policy
@@SaintGerbilUKthey are not and they have not.
Scottish Independence and the SNP are 2 different things.
So true...
Think they'll find the Labour resurgence just unionists moving from Tory to Labour. No right thinking independence supporter would vote Labour are the last referendum.
They’re really not!
@@SSMMTTEE
They really are
The SNP is a vehicle towards independence. And it's not the only one.
People who support independence, their belief in independence doesn't rely on how the SNP are doing, their belief in independence instead is based on what they think is in the best interests of Scotland as a country going forward.
The SNP will more than likely split post independence.
I dont support the (closet neoliberal) SNP, but I would prefer independence.
Equating independence with SNP support is a mistake.
The SNP doesnt have Blackford-Sturgeon anymore, and i cant see them being very popular until they can find new leaders who mirror that level of popularity
they are winning in the polls what the hell are you on
Blackford was never popular.
@@malehumanperson7901Except at Greggs.
@@tomk8729
There's s Greggs in Blsckford.
A few years of Starmer will destroy whatever support Labour managed to scrape off the floor, in Scotland. Just like what happened in Scotland, when Blair won. The SNP got virtually all their rise under the last Labour government. The Tories just kept the support stable.
It speaks volumes that if the people of a country want independence from their bigger neighbour they have to first go hat in hand and ask for permission before they’re allowed to ask their own people.
NO!
as they still support rejoining the EU they still have my vote
"... Alive and Kicking..." nice wink to a great Scottish band 😉
Aren't simple minds northern Irish?
Naw 😉
I find it funny that people actually thought this was a possibility.
It can
@@JayMc-dn1vu It won't.
@@lennonkelly-james2693 no trust me it can and it will start back up its just a matter of time
@@JayMc-dn1vu Do you know why Scotland merged with England in the first place? It's because they failed to colonise and became broke. They are completely reliant on the rest of the UK, so wake up.
@@JayMc-dn1vu 61% of Scotland's exports come from the rest of the UK while only making 10% of it's overall income. They're not going anywhere.
Honestly i don't see Snp leading an independent Scotland
Honestly after scottish independence the snp will probably fall towards irrelevance
It's always fascinating to delve into discussions about political and historical topics, such as Scottish independence. The history and culture of Scotland are so rich and vibrant, and it's intriguing to see how these elements intertwine with contemporary politics. Regardless of the current status or future of Scottish independence, it's a topic that certainly sparks a lot of passionate conversation and brings to light the importance of understanding and respecting diverse perspectives. It's great to see people engaging with such significant and thought-provoking subjects! 🌍✨
It certainly does I know people who did speak to each other for years because of it
Something that I have noticed is UK government and supreme court stating that a another referendum would be illegal doesn't go down well with Scots. Taking away the chance to make their own mind up I believe is helping the independence movement.
That's why I fully expect that at some point, Scotland will just hold a referendum unilaterally and say to hell with whether England considers it legal.
@@RedXlV
1: the court of session in Scotland came to the same conclusion as the Supreme Court
2: the head of the Supreme Court is a Scot who previously was a judge in the court of session
3: ask Catalonia how that went
The polls don’t agree with your claim
11:36 dormant, not dorment
Ok boomer
@@aeris2001 ? he corrected a mistake
Shop, not Shoppe. Color not Colour. Fries not chips. Freedom not Kingdom. :P
@@ryancharles9559 I've never seen shoppe
if your turned away from the snp and still want independence don't vote for labour vote for real labour i.e the SSP
I never understood why the SNP leader is not a Scottish man, but instead an unpopular immigrant
It's by design. If you want to kill a movement, install an unpopular leader with ridiculous policies.
Humzaa Yousaf was born in Rutherglen, Scotland in 1985, his parents might have been Pakistani immigrants, but he's still Scottish.
@indy-biker-stevie Yes he is Scottish on paper. But he is loyal to Pakistan and hates Scotland as well as it's people.
Scot: "Do you know what the greatest threat to Scotland?"
Me: "...n..no?"
*Leans in closely*
Scot: "Scots"
I would like to see the union remain intact, but I would not be opposed to some kind of reform that increases Scottish autonomy, in fact I'd be in favour of it
You cant hold both positions. You are lying to yourself.
@@user-pf5xq3lq8i Only a Sith deals in absolutes
Terrible idea
Re. the 1979 referendum on Scottish devolution - it's a wee bit more complicated than your version of events. The Labour MP for Islington South & Finsbury and Scottish by birth, George Cunningham, strongly opposed Scottish devolution. At his prompting, the House of Commons accepted an amendment to the Scotland Act 1978 that a majority voting "yes" in the 1979 referendum on establishing a devolved Assembly would have to constitute at least 40 per cent of the Scottish electorate, without which the proposal could be withdrawn and the Act repealed by statutory instrument.
Never before or since has a 'turnout threshold' been applied in this way to any democratic process in the UK - see the 2016 EU referendum when only 37.4% of the total UK electorate voted leave but no threshold was required. In 1979 the Scottish electoral roll was significantly inaccurate, but worse still was that dead people and those who didn't vote were effectively recorded on the 'No' side of the question!
Although “yes” won a majority of those voting in the 1979 referendum, as "yes" constituted only 32.9 per cent of the electorate, the Labour government decided it would not proceed with devolution. This prompted the Scottish National Party to withdraw its support for the minority government. The Conservative opposition then tabled a motion of no confidence, in which the government was defeated by one vote. The Conservative Party, which was opposed to devolution, won the subsequent general election; the Scotland Act was repealed in June 1979.
I would argue that it was George Cunningham MP and his 'threshold' amendment 'for Scotland only' that caused the stooshie and the whole of UK politics has suffered ever since!
It's kind of strange for Scotland to want nationalism and devolvement from central power in Westminster and England, while at the same time thinking they will be embraced by, join and submit themselves to the super centralised EU Union state. They are trading one centralised power (which affords them a lot of autonomy) for another even bigger and more restrictive, in the name of independence. Scotland has relied (since 1707) on a number of English backed subsidies, they think the EU, with all of its troubles and shortcomings are going to want to prop up Scotland financially and economically? I don't think so.
Scotland would have more power over itself in the EU than it does in the UK, if it were to join the EU.
You can't really judge Scotland economically as Westminster holds almost all the powers related to the economy and finances, HMRC, DWP, foreign affairs, etc.
Union has worked both ways. Westminster got 4 trillion in oil money and Scotland got about 8% of that
@@elliotwilliams7421 The EU is an evolving union taking more power with each passing decade
You think Scotland would have less power if we left the uk and join the EU as an independent state? lol
Scotland blew their chance, SNP might as well shift their focus
More like UK blow chance for Scotland
Yes it is .
Have you ever been to Scotland or did you just read about it in a newspaper/history book/Wikipedia?
we all want our independence form the clowns in Westminster!
Replace by the clowns in Scotland.
I voted for independence in 2014 and suspect I will again one day, but for now Independence does not work with rUK outside of the single market and my former allies who continue to insist it does end up resorting to Brexity arguments "We'll get a special deal" "we will trade and do business elsewhere" "it will be solved by tech" etc. etc.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x- EU member states can leave any time they wish. Scotland is prevented from leaving the UK despite voting into a majority numerous times a party that favours a referendum on the issue.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x Those predictions are mostly just there for clickbait though i suspect one day its bound to happen that most of the countries in EU will be right wing Trump like parties (surprised it's not happened already), but won't really matter. Every country in EU has a veto on policies, so if something is proposed that you dont like you can stop it, also EU is really just a set of rules for minimum standards, countreis can go beyond those if they like. Despite the Brexit arguments nations in the EU are sovereign, you just agree to a common set of rules which you can exceed if you want. What policies do you think these right-wing politicians would bring in that would affect a left wing sovereign state within the EU?
@@glasgovipsolaradon’t conjoin voting for the SNP with wanting independence. People enjoy a strong Scottish voice in Westminster in the form of the SNP. However most do not want independence - polls/2014. We aren’t forced to stay in the UK, we simply don’t want ti leave.
I mostly agree with your end result but for different means I don't think that that ruk not being in the eu and Scotland needing to rejoin would be that bad, but its bad enough politically, it looks bad enough regardless if it is bad enough, just how it looks could be enough to scupper independence.
@@robadobadingdong7104 - not everyone who votes SNP wants independence granted, however by their own reporting a large percentage of those who vote Labour and LibDem do. The recently leaked private polling by the Tory party, commissioned by Michael Gove, has 80% support for independence among the 18 to 24 year olds and the Ipsos Mori poll of last week put support at 54%.
It’s as if we need an actual, official poll - like a referendum to decide. But given the shock the Tories no doubt had looking at their own data it’s perfectly understandable why they refuse to sanction another referendum - they know they’ll lose.
The SNP is only 1 part of the independence movement..... I know far more people that are pro independence now than in 2014!
I don't understand anything about Scotland, but normally, one of the main drivers are due to money.
As a Scottish viewer, I never liked the Independence movement.
It just feels like they're putting all of the blame for all of Scotland's wows on England. It's only a half truth, as in reality, they could've done more for Scotland if they focused on today's Scotland, not some far future Independent Scotland.
As an Englishman I like this because after living in Scotland for four years I did feel there is a media problem where those who are intrigued by independence read largely english-hating independence-loving papers that made themselves more hateful like The National. If the news was less polarising I think that could help stop this blame game.
@@Aragornofmoria I Nationalist paper and about 15 Unionist papers. I think polarising is not accurate. An avalanche of independence hate spews every day from all these papers. The National only has a circulation of a few thousand and you will be lucky to finf it in most retail outlets. Prime time TV is also controlled by Unionist biased editors and producers. Get real mate, Independence is solid despite and massive bias in the media
*You're not Scottish though*
"wows"
Did you mean *woes, you obvious unionist Tory supporter.
@Mark-Haddow I was born in Scotland, to Scottish parents whose parents were born in Scotland, etc.
Who are you to say where I am from or not.
thank you for a video educating non-uk nationals. also, a big like for increasing the time of the video to cover the topic properly. just one thing, you had a typo at 11:37. dormant, not dorment
Don't trust TLDR on independence or anything outside of English politics.
No. I should say: Scottish independence might be dead (forever). 🏴🇬🇧
The majority of Scots-born who voted in the 2014 referendum voted YES. Most non-Scots voted No, which what swung it. The movement will only cease when independence is achieved.
he sooner independence is achieved the better
A big part of it is division in the movement, as well as the Scots’ lack of national pride
Yeah I think that's what the debates within SNP showed, what Scotland actually means and what government would be formed after, with SNP being held together up with independence what would come after would be certainly interesting 🤔
War.@@Tyanus2
Lack of pride!? Expert on the Scots are you? Or just talking shite? 😂
i support Scottish independance, but as an Australian, the largest effect for me will be the flag changing, how would British colony flags change? the blue on our flag is kinda the biggest part of it
why the fuck do you support it if you're not even Scottish, nor live in the UK? Shits got nothing to do with you lmao.
Get a new flag. Why would you want the butcher's apron on your flag?
@@charmainelamont2020 definitely, we need an iconic flag like NZ's black feather
Union Scotland v's Scotland freedom! 62% Scotland 2016, NO??? Laugh! 78% vote Dec 2023, YES!!! Scottish people, YES!!! Imperial masters goodbye! :)
Source please, you’re pulling numbers out of your ass.
Lay off the propaganda buddy
Scotland did more imperialism per capita than England
Scotland Dec vote 78%, YES! Vote 2024, TREATY - void & null! Court! Goodbye lol :) @@Anakin_Sandy_High_Ground
Freedom! :) @@Finnbobjimbob
Im scottish-anerican and id move to scotland if they became independent
Not Scottish enough
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d bud
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d 53% not enough?
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d 18% Northern Ireland?
Labour party would never be considered left by Latin American standards.
But they would by North American standards and no offence but Latin America is hardly an advert for good governance.
It’s adorable to watch a young Englishman suggest the Scots can be “placated”.
It's true though and easy enough.
In hindsight, Sturgeon and SNP made a huge mistake by not postponing the Scottish referendum until after the leave one.
Except there was no discussion of leaving the EU back in 2014 when the independance referendum took place...
Nobody thought 52 of the population of the UK were either Nazis or brain dead?
@@penguinzilla1995in fact the english government told us they'd block us joining the EU if we left the UK
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x . If they do we are all doomed.
Of course there had been, it was a manifesto pledge for the Tories. David Cameron made a statement Jan 23rd 2013 committing to an in-out referendum by 2017@@penguinzilla1995
They voted no. What do they want to do? Revote every 5 years till they get what they want? That sounds like a great idea for stability.
Be disastrous if we did that with the rest of governance, eh?
No, what we want is consistency. If a party stands on a manifesto and wins an election to give the people a vote on X, then the vote on X should happen because that’s what the people voted for. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had the biggest mandate in the United Kingdom and were told to shut up and get back in their box with the rest of Scotland. How is it fair that an entire nation is being held to ransom by another just because it’s too scared to go it alone themselves?
Actually that sounds like a fine example democracy to me. You yourself vote on the same old thing every few year in a general election. Why can't the Scots have the same level of democracy?
N Ireland can vote every seven years. Monumental change either England's brexit made 2014 vote void . Scots were actually told by staying in UK campaign that yo stay in EU meant not leaving UK .
@@FightingTorque411 voting for different (although in reality in the UK, usually quite similar) economic and social policies which still retain the same capitalist foundation established in earnest by Margaret Thatcher every few years is much less disruptive and uncertain for businesses and investors than a significant constitutional referendum every few years. If you don't believe me, one word, Brexit.
Scotland doesn't really want Independence from the UK, they just want to never be subjected to the London focused Conservatives.
Are you aware that huge chunks of England also do not want that? Maybe everywhere outside the London Bubble should just all leave together,
Nothing fundamentally changes
I’m of the opinion most recent polling put the SNP at 40 seats at the GE and support for Independence at 53%
Ignore the IPSOS polls. IPSOS inflates the SNP's popularity because it gets 5 million quid a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling. It's nothing more than a front for Angus Robertson's propaganda ministry.
Well that’s just incorrect, source please.
@@Finnbobjimbob It's from a crooked IPSOS poll.
IPSOS btw gets £5 million a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling so it inflates the SNP's popularity.
Yet more SNP corruption for you.
I keep posting my source but it keeps being removed 🤔
Just Google Ipsos SNP polling
The scots already had their chance, now deal with the consequences of what you voted
Eh fuck you brexit was a fucking shit show that we didn't vote for but are getting fucked by Westminster
Yes...and it has been for a long time
You guys have replaced "Anytime soon", with "for now", that is not better variety is key to keep the flow of information dynamic
I hate to break it to you but the reality of the Kingdom of Scotland being its own separate entity is over a millennia old and is far bigger than a single political party.
Scotland is not a kingdom.
The run down the SNP run down Scotland faction needs to understand this.
Irrelevant
The kingdom of Scotland hasn’t existed in nearly 320 years and polls show most Scots oppose leaving the UK
I'm sure SNP supporters will react to this video in a totally rational, level-headed way.
We need to consider the most important independence issue: what about Berwick-upon-Tweed?
I am rooting for Cornwall to be recognized as the 5th nation!
It is worth noting that the Labour support in Scotland also includes a chunk of pro-independence voters, often shown to be around 25-30%. That is likely to rise as the SNP struggle to maintain their votes. Labour will likely ignore these people and create policy primarily aimed at England, but that element of their support could play into things down the line - such as in the next Scottish elections.
The union needs major reform to survive longer-term. It has been a long time since a realistic option has been offered, Labour may get their chance soon to try something new. There is majority support in Scotland for a middle ground between independence and the current model of devolution. Whether that reduces independence support long-term I don't know, it may be a further stepping stone. Continuing to fracture the electorate into Yes/No ultimately doesn't benefit the country, so it needs a resolution. The Westminster government would be advised not to keep saying no to further referendums outright, it would be better to set some conditions in place for any further votes. Be that 60% consistent polling for yes, majority pro-independence MSPs/MPs etc.
Or how about not letting your country's integrity be beholden to probably transient voter-blocs of independence. They had a referendum and sayed no. They wanted a parliament and got it. They have Members of Parliament in Westminster and have their own legal framework. They should stop whining.
@@psyqueerdelic Unions? Since when do they matter?
@@johnnotrealname8168 Why should people "stop whining"? If people don't want to be part of the UK, who are you to tell people they're whining? It's sounds like you're the whiner here.
@@johnnotrealname8168- dry your eyes. The referendum was a decade ago! People change their minds and vote differently and there’s almost a million new voters on the electoral roll now compared to 2014. 15 year olds then have kids of their own now but no say in their country’s future after having their EU citizenship removed against their will.
MP’s representing Scottish constituencies make up less than 10% of seats at Westminster. We could not hope to influence the outcome of any vote there. Our parliament has very limited powers and cannot borrow whereas YOUR parliament has ALL the powers and can borrow on international markets. Why should Scots let parties they neither elect nor can eject set their annual budget?
Alternatively, make Edinburgh the U.K. capital, give you lot just 10% of seats in the parliament, send our treasury all your money and we’ll give you back the pocket money WE think you’ll need. You’d be happy with that arrangement would you and, being unable to change it through a referendum, not complain at all?
@glasgovipsolara Dry? You lot are the ones complaining and mismanaging the economy. You already had a referendum. Stop crying and how about trying to elect better people in Scotland.
From Germanys point of view, a divorcing of UK is not desireable. Actually the whole continent sowered about Brexit. But better to have a functioning UK in EU community, than splitting Scottland from England, which would make an Scottish EU membership possible like Irland posses. It is astonishing how much scottish - english conflicts and wars had appearded in Brittans history. But better UK remains strong and supports EU as strong member, than continuing all this divorces. The first divorce was the Brexit. And if Scottland and Irland will try to come completely independend from England, the decay of brittish island will continue. Not good for UK and not good for Europe. Europe may be on the way to establish itself as an "fouth Global Superpower". But it can do so only if important nations like UK, Norway and Swizerland join this process. Remarkble is, that England and Scottland is NATO member. Norway is NATO member too. Swizerland is like Irland and Austria not a NATO member. But Swizerland joins the "European Skyshield Initiative" which should establish a coordinated pan european airdefence cooperation.
I'm not sure about "fourth global superpower" as much as "fourth Reich" I'm sure you're happy when the EU does things you like, but when it doesn't you have no way to hold it/them to account.
@@SaintGerbilUK Look on the Red Sea. Currently mainly USA and UK are active. But the challanges in this region will increase. Meaning that a full European activitiy could support the USA, which becomes overburdoned from Ukraine, Near East and Far East theaters. That EU is Germanys Fourth Empire is the point of view from Anti German people. Found heavely in England (but not in Scottland !) and in Poland etc.. Nowadays Germany is the "ill man" of Europe. And the weight of Germany inside EU community shrinks with Germanys own decrease. The strongest continental power today is France. Germany is a self destructive monkey theater. And no longer the pivot power of EU community. So a strong UK as EU member, could form Europe as good as France and former Germany could do.
Ok, I suggest that Vienna becomes your capital. You will only have 10% of seats in parliament. You will send all of your taxes to the Vienna Treasury and a party in government there that you haven’t voted for since 1955 will set your annual budgets with the pocket money they hand back to you. But no borrowing powers, you must balance the books. They have borrowing powers though of course, not you.
Further, the government in Vienna, that you did not vote for, will borrow “on your behalf” for things like Trident nuclear missiles, that they will put just 30 miles from your most populace conurbation, things you neither need nor want and they will make you pay for this debt with interest. Vienna will then decide to take you out of the EU against your democratically expressed will and make no provisions for your loses in business and exports. And when you consistently elect a party to your “regional” parliament and the 10% of your seats in their national parliament that wants to remedy this injustice and affront to democracy they will prevent them from voting in a referendum to leave the toxic union I’ve metaphorically put you in. You’ll go on CZcams, see a video about it and read a very ill-informed post from someone in Scotland that knows nothing of your plight - and what do you do?
@@SaintGerbilUK Well, this has just been Godwin'd. Dial down your hyperbole, and read up on everything that's happened since 1945.
@@glasgovipsolaraI cannot understand this statements ! It seems that any historical issues are needed to attac perhaps EU community, Germany or any thing else. Better than such metaphers, which nobody can understand and interpret, would be to give clear understandabel statements. Is your comment attacs against EU, against Germany, against UK / England or what. I even cannot distill the intention and the location of this comment from reading between the lines. Are you scottish an mock against England ? And why vienna is so important ? Is it belonging to the "Wiener Congress" which ordered Europe after Napoleon or sometimes else ? Please explain it in an more educational style to let your audience understand, what you think and what you claim. Are you aginast EU, against UK or what ??
A United Ireland is not dead by any means
Dormant is a good way of putting it.
Professor John Curtice warned a few days ago that polls in Scotland are being misinterpreted.
Support for independence is neck and neck here, so good luck hoping for a Labour majority and collapse of the SNP, as its not going to happen.
Only way i can see Scotland going independent is if starmer guarantees a referendum to get labour in. But I doubt he’d do that as it’d lose him votes in England
I can only see him doing that if he needs the SNP to form a government in Westminster. But if the polls prove to be correct, he won't need the SNP as Labour should win a comfortable majority.
I don't think it would lose him votes the average English voter does not give a stuff about Scottish Independence.The reason he won't is that the Labour party are a unionist party.
When WW3 is finally started, what side would Scotland be on then?
I don’t really know, but it seems that Humzah Yousaf leading the SNP raises an ideological issue within the independence movement. His background wouldn’t be a problem is he wasn’t overly focused in identity politics.
Last 5 polls have shown majority support independence. Jsyk
This is false, you can see all the polls on wikipedia.
In the last 5, 'No' won thrice and 'Yes' Twice. Go further back and there's an even higher proportion of 'No'.
Most likely what you saw was a propaganda piece where undecided was counted as 'Yes'.
Last 5+ polls have also shown that British people regardless of age and location support rejoining the European Union, but the Conservatives and Labour won’t listen to either poll.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn YEAH! Doing a referendum the way the Brexit-one was done is terrible. In that case, the "50%+1 vote" for decision was a blatant misstep (should have been a result-requirement of a 60% on either side). And another critically bad move was, taking action on the result of a NON-BINDING referendum.
@@belabahn 50%+1 is the only fair way to choose between two different outcomes. Anything else is just grossly undemocratic.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn 82% of young people yes voters. The union is over. If the Irish don't do it first, we will.
If Cameron nad allowed a federalist solution in the 2014 ballot all if this could have been avoided. But he wanted to crush the SNP and the independence movement. It backfield just as the Brexit vote did with UKIP.
@@psyqueerdelichas Starmer said he supports further devolution for the constituent countries or for all British regions, eg the North West or Yorkshire & the Humber?
@@psyqueerdeliclabour are just tories with mob symbolism
@@psyqueerdelic I thought Starmer was selling himself to his target voters as a staunch unionist, devolution was a big mistake type thing. Also he has done a 180 on so many things that I think we will all be able to go ice skating in Hell before Keir does anything to change the UK voting system.
Same thing happened in Québec post-1976. The Parti Québécois came into power with a bang, beat eggs with big sticks, held and lost a referendum in 1980, and then became just another governing party that grew tired. They got a second wind in the 90s and federal politics gave them a shot at a second referendum in '95, but they narrowly lost that too. By and large, that closed the book. Should have been the same in Scotland post-Brexit... The big difference is that Québec does not need federal "permission" to ask its own electorate a question.