Kayak Materials 101: Which One Is Best For You?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Dan covers three of the most popular materials used for manufacturing kayaks. Let us know in the comments which material you prefer!
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This summer I was talked into a Hurricane Skimmer. When I got it home, the owner's manual said no impacts- not even class one rapids. This boat was unusable for me. I never used it. Sold a brand new $1200 kayak for $1000. Was a terrible experience. Alternatively, my $400 kayak has provided so much fun for me and my dog. I don't have to be careful; all I need to do is have fun.
Good point. I have perception Carolina 14. I don't see myself being careful enough to have anything other than polyethylene.
Liked and subscribed. Consistent no-nonsense content without any gimmicks. There aren't a lot of great kayaking channels out there...you're maybe one of four along with River Kings, Paddle TV, and Happy Paddlin'...and I for one appreciate the information that you're sharing.
Thanks so much! Awesome to be on a list with such epic channels ❤️
Excellent video! I just picked up my EddyLine skylark 12, 2 weeks ago and the difference in just gliding down the water is night day from the polyethylene pelican I started out with.
It gets plenty of compliments too even from the composite guys. Bought it based on your videos, keep up the awesome work!
Heck yeah! The Skylark is an awesome kayak. Glad to hear it’s treating ya well.
Congratulations!
Happy Paddin'!
Great review…so well done…so helpful.
Nice video, thanks! However, I strongly recommend to have a look at german manufacturer Prijon who since 1982 blowmolds PE-kayaks! Those feature market leading abrasion resistance, form-stability and - speaking of which - UV-insensitivity! In addition the material - due to it's strength - can be crafted thinner, which renders Prijon kayaks lighter than the rotomolded competition. And yes - Prijon kayaks can (and WILL be) recycled by the company - Cheers!
This was very helpful to me, thank you.
Excellent video as usual! It confirms that I made the right choice by ordering an Eddyline sandpiper that I should received next week! Thank you for all the information. I learned so much from your channel !
Sandpiper is an awesome kayak! Glad we could help you with your decision. Thanks for being part of the journey! 🙏
It took 7months to get my Delta good luck.
great rundown of the various price points.
Very informative! 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you! Excellent!
Fantastic info.
Great video! Composite also holds a special place in our hearts too😉
As it should! ❤️
Great breakdown! Never knew the pros and cons. I'm a Hobie fishing kayak guy, but enjoy learning about all the options!
Roger, The Smiling BassHole
Excellent breakdown on layup & material applications.
It's so true about composites becoming "lifetime" boats. I have a 22 year old composite that is still beautiful. It's no longer my primary ride, but I'll always have a place for it!
Thanks! Composites are really where it’s at. I wish everyone had the chance to hop in one and feel the difference. A whole different planet really.
@@HeadwatersKayak
Amen.
Same with high-end paddles!
What’s your 20+ year old kayak? Mine is a Dagger Sitka that I’ve setup with a Falcon Sail Rig.
great vid Dan. great information here.
Thanks Carlos, Stoked it was helpful for you.
Great presentation which will help newbies in selecting a paddle boat.
I recently looked at one of the fastest ocean ski's at just under 20 lbs and a full 21 ft long, the NK Nitro 640 with with prepreg carbon construction. The price is way out of my range for a fast composite boat.
quality content, great topic!
Thanks! 🙏
Merci pour les informations, cela m'aide beaucoup pour choisir un bon kayak avec vos conseils, et vous expliquer très bien,vous êtes très intéressant à écouter ! Merci Annick de Saint-Georges Quebec
Thank you for making this video - I've been researching and think I've nailed down what I want and your info provided a good understanding of the pros and cons. Cheers !
Glad it was helpful!
Good overview. The other thing with thermoformed is the tendency for the material to split in places where it is regularly flexed. In use and handling it is something to be conscious of avoiding.
the thermoformed sheet is of uniform thickness, want to add thickness to say the keel, as is often the case with a rotomoulded or composite kayak, well you re out of luck, can t be done
Yes, and even worse, because it is thermoformed there will be varying thickness less than the original sheet depending on how much it has had to stretch to cover the form. Not ideal.@@CheekyMonkey888
@@waterbourne9282 very possible, I had a thermoformed polyethyline Pelican, although not as shatter prone as thermoformed abs, it seemed the few edges and contours it had were weaker, they didn t break, but deformed easily
Great video, thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Dan you are the best man. Have learned so much from your content. Keep it coming.
I appreciate that!
I love the Stellar Advantage fiberglass composite with Soric; been paddling a few such boats for years and it doesn't spider crack at all. It does scratch though and you have to be careful not to launch or beach it but they are light enough that you can put the boat in the water or get out of it with plenty of water beneath you its not a problem. Paddling on a windy day all bets are off though!
My inlaws have a pair of Wilderness Tsunami boats they picked up for themselves and us maybe 20 years ago as they live on the water and yikes they were used, abused, never cared for, left outside and they are scratched, faded and the screws are slightly (only slightly) oxidized and rusty but still paddling well. I cannot believe how we did everything we were not supposed to do like launching or beaching them long before I knew about kayaks and caring for them and all the lessons associated with the sport with how well they have held up. Unfortunately they are obnoxiously heavy to transport. I lift weights and still need someone else to help me move them. Even putting it on my shoulder/trap area the cockpit has so much heft and pressure there moving it any more than 20 feet makes me feel like the boat will amputate my shoulder. Very unpleasant.
Yees! Looking for that kind video for a long time. Thanks Dan! Best wishes from Poland 🙌🏻🛶💚🚣♂️
Thanks! How’s the paddling in Poland?
Great overall, thanks for asking Dan 🙌
Maybe you consider kayak trip in Europe and vist Poland? We have nice places to explore.
I recommend watching paddle tales episode
czcams.com/video/5HthKBbTBFo/video.html
Where I live I surounded by lakes and slow flowing rivers like the Bug river.
Awesome video!
Thanks Guys
I have a Kevlar/fibreglass 15' Current Designs--20 years old. Kelvar top Glass bottom. It has been through the wars -- heavily gouged. The top was bleached semi white from Red. Did a complete restoration job and it looks brand new. The gouges are invisible, stronger but heavier and the kevlar top was heated with a gun and buffed back to a shine. I have since bought a 17 Delta-- it's just a Superior kayak in every way-- period. Still love the Current Designs composite; it just has a different feel on the water.
That’s awesome! Yeah, older composites (before the discovery of vacuuming out the excess resin) were nowhere near as lightweight as the options on the market today. I guess I should have specified that an old composite may not be as good as a new thermoformed boat. New composites however, ESPECIALLY carbon/Kevlar weaves… phew.. hot potatoes
🙏 great video !
Thank you 🙏 Glad ya liked it 🙂
impressive camera work and content as always
Seth is helping us step out game up on the Camera work. Very stoked to have him on board.
Very helpful video!! I chose rotomolded as my first. A few years in with it now and you may have convinced me to go up to Thermoform! :) Just have to save $$$. Great video!
Be careful, if you try a composite you might end up in one of those instead. Then you’ll have to save even more money… 😅
Thanks. Appreciate this
You bet!
Stellar, made in China, Seaward, made on Vancouver Island. Easy choice for me, for now very satisfied with my Delta 17 thermaformed, made in BC, Canada.
Seaward makes a great kayak. Very rare to find them here in the US. Wish we had more North American companies available for a decent price. Sterling is here, but its 7-8k for a kayak.
Great video and informative content!! I am looking to purchase my own kayak for the first time. Definitely think I will be going Thermoform (I’d like a composite of course but I probably should make sure I stick with kayaking before laying out that kind of $ out of the gate, haha!). I am in Texas and I wish you guys were closer, I’d love to purchase a kayak from you!!
Nice Thermoform is tough to beat for a workhorse kayak. If you love it, you’ll probably get a composite someday. Enjoy the journey!
Just want to say, I discovered your channel tonight and have gone down the rabbit hole of videos - the rest of my family is asleep! So well done, so informative, tells me what I want to know and does so in an entertaining way. Big THANK YOU from the river rats in Arkansas!
Oh, and your Mom is great!
Thanks so much! Glad to hear you found our content helpful. Much more to come!
Big fan of the paddling content you have been putting out over the years. Ever think about doing a series on canoes?
Yes for sure. Up here in Bend paddling canoes this weekend with Northstar Canoes. I’ll try and shoot something.
I have had 3 kayaks and still have 2. I have a Pungo140 (1st) and then a Necky Looksha Elite (gave to my girl friend) and a Current Design Solstice GT17 ( I used for a 5000 mile solo kayak trip for Mission22)
Great video with good information! I can't remember if I asked this in the past, so here goes: Is it okay to use kayak ramps with an Eddyline or Delta kayak? I'm talking about the ones that have the metal rollers for entry and exit. I want to say I've seen you use them and also use dock entry with your boats so I'm unsure.
We use Eddylines on the rollers down at our boathouse. The only issue we’ve seen is a crack develop on a sandpiper right in front of the seat. That hill has a ton of flex due to the wide flat bottom. I don’t have enough experience to talk about Delta long term, but their material does seem to be a touch thinner.
Thanks I just got a Delta 14 abs kayak and I wasn't sure it I made the right decision but I like it and you tout the abs. I think they possibly put a clear coat on it? It's 14' and weighs the same as my necky 13' at 45#.
I’d imagine they have a similar coat to Eddyline. I don’t know of any ABS manufacturer that doesn’t.
Hi Dan, Thanks for all of your great videos. They've been really informative and fun to watch. I have a question about your experience with the Multi-Sport hulls. I don't want to worry as much about the Advantage hull when on shallower rivers or when tooling along the coastline. Do you notice much difference when paddling in a MS kayak versus the Advantage, i.e. periodic oil canning or flexing when you're really pushing with your feet? Thanks!
I do not notice it. Even in decent surf it felt plenty stiff to me. The only time I notice the flex is when running over rocks on the river, and thats where I want the flex.
Great video. You talk about 303 protection for polyethylene kayak. I'm from across the pond so not sure what that is. Any link or maybe you cover it in another video? I'll brows them.
303 is an aerospace/UV protectant that works wonders for kayaks. They make a lot of stuff, but the one you’re looking for is the aerospace/marine. Looks like this: a.co/d/aWOEeXO
@@HeadwatersKayak Thanks 😊
Love your straight forward presentations. I’m 62 and looking for my last perfect for me yak, composit. Leaning towards P&H Volan. Big rivers, lakes and coasts. Multi day trips. 5’11 218 lbs. never put hands on Stellar or P&H. What would you HIGHLY recommend in 16’ to 16’8” ?
PH makes great boats. Different style of paddling than a stellar. You do more steering with your lower body in the PH because it has no rudder. With that said they are playful and elegant to paddle.
Such a helpful and informative video. I was on the fence regarding thermoform kayaks and your video cleared up my main concerns. So, I know you like Eddyline but I would love to get your opinion on Delta kayaks. I'm considering the Delta 17. The price is right and most reviews are positive. Composites are great but cost more than I want to spend at this time.
Delta‘s plastics are a little thinner than Eddyline‘s. However they have some fantastic designs. I’ve paddled a Delta 17 before and was a fan.
@@HeadwatersKayak That"s great. So would you say that Eddylines are more durable than Delta?
Could you do a vid on kayak seats? The one I have in my kayak is super uncomfortable but I don’t know where to start when getting a new one. How do I know which seat will fit my kayak? Are seats for sit-on-tops different? How do I measure?
That’s a tough subject to do a video on since almost no modern kayaks have interchangeable seats. All the manufacturers mold their hulls to fit specific seat forms, and pretty much none of them can be swapped out without major modification (which in many cases can cause long term issues for the boat). There are a good number of CZcams videos of folks doing seat upgrades on sit-on-tops, but pretty much all of them are sketchy at best. It’s a bummer, but not something that’s likely to change in the future given what a huge selling point seats are for manufacturers.
@@HeadwatersKayak Ah ok. Thx for the reply and explanation.
Sounds like an untapped market! :)
I've seen it happen often: people landing the poly kayak on the concrete boat ramp and wearing a hole in the hull. Also dragging the kayak across the asphalt lol.
Hi Dan, is there a technical reason why carbon/kevlar hulls are not painted, or is that only done to show off the expensive material?
Stellar uses a Flexible Resin that is clear. Gel Coat does not flex so is more prone to cracks, although there have been developments on this front recently and now we are seeing Multisport Hulls with white gel coat that is said to have more flex. I just got one in my demo fleet. I'll let you know in a year after I use it for a season.
I bought a Feelfree GeminiTandem in 2005, it has been living in the desert sun all these years and still works just fine. It's not as bright purple anymore. My Stellar will probably live in the garage for 15 years because I don't want to get a scratch on it...
That’s good to hear. 17 years of sun is remarkable. Those Feelfree Rec Kayaks are built like tanks.
Hi Dan -
I’ve had my composite Stellar s14 G2 for a few months now and several outings, including a seven hour class with strokes and rescues. I guess my question is, is it possible to make it a more robust bow & bottom since it wasn’t that to begin with? I’m finding it difficult to enjoy specially getting in and out and having to avoid rocky beach landings. I am sea kayaking, but not really open water and certainly not rock gardening, but I am finding that I am being so careful that it’s not fun actually very stressful. Really don’t want to sell it. Thanks for any ideas you can offer.
You can add some keel guard to the high impact areas.
@@HeadwatersKayak thank you - will do
Polyethylene and rapids are the perfect combination
Could you use a thermoform kayaks in rivers?
Not white water. Slow moving currents sure.
@@HeadwatersKayak But that would be for ABS thermoform yes? Because many thermos like (Pelican) are made of PE which would be fine in white water?
@@lordenoch0 no thermoform is fine in rocky or shallow white water where the boat drags or hits anything, imo.
Can you compare Eddyline to Delta Kayaks ?
That would be a good video. I just sat in one for the first time last week. They are neat kayaks. Plastic seems to have a touch more flex, but the shop I was at said they hold up great. The Eddylines seem to be trimmer and sleeker kayaks as opposed to the Delta being a bit more bulbous and rounded. The Delta seems like it would be very stable and forgiving. I’d love a chance to paddle one.
Where does Pelican fit in with their thermoformed kayaks? They are less expensive than rotomolded kayaks, and mass produced. Are they just using a cheaper thermoform plastic?
Yes they are using twin sheet polyethylene. As opposed to acrylic caped ABS plastic. This is an inexpensive fast way to produce kayaks but limits the ability to form defined features.
Good summary of considerations for the material when choosing a kayak. One other detail about material of your a kayak is the resale value. As you said polyethylene scratches very easy. Thermoformed not so easy and composite holds up really well if you look after them. If you decide to move on to a new kayak and sell the old one, you will get a lot more back from thermoformed or composite than polyethylene. Does not take long for polyethylene to look really used. My wife recently sold her extensively used composite kayak for the same as she bought it for 5 years earlier. Price of a new one had gone up, but that was still 65% of the original price after accounting for the inflation.
Exactly!
about the 6:40 mark when he started to talk about the prices i knew video wasnt made for me
😂
You’ve dropped some lb’s recently!
Putting in those miles on the bike and in the boat!
I've heard that 303 is damaging to ABS boats. Slowly eats away at it and softens the plastic.
Hmmm don’t think that’s true. I’ll ask Eddyline
I had wondered about this myself, I have both Delta and Eddyline boats. They do use a different plastic formula even though both include ABS and acrylic. Delta plastic is softer and more flexible. Delta does say to not use 303 (Armor-all only, recommended for hatch seals), but Eddyline says 303 is OK. So, could be something about the difference in plastic formulas between the two.
1st
Wait 4k for a kayak, you mean half a car?
Well do you finance? Cuz if this is going to last the next 20ish years. I would be 60 and I am in Michigan so easy water is every where.
$4,000 is pretty cheap if you get a nice performance boat
Leaving the kayak in the sun seems to damage the elastic cords if nothing else.
Most definitely. Bungees and outfitting are the first thing to go.
In my opinion sit insides suck. They are terrible for fishing. Cant stand in them. But thats me
Open mind is > small mind
@@HeadwatersKayak I mean be honest. Whats so much better about sit insides that a sit on top doesn't have or do. Who cares about getting wet its water.
I’m 62 and live 5 miles from a large river. Been kayak fishing forever. I used the best SOT’s money can buy, I now only use sit inside. Much more stable, faster and much easier to land the fish. Who freaking needs to stand up. Sales hype. Flipped many times on sot. Not once in a sit inside. Decades of kayak fishing, started in 1976. That’s my 50 cents worth !
@@flatheadfletchLOL if you think sit in is better that sit on top, then you’re not really fishing!😂😂😂😂
Just say no to PE kayaks! We gradually replaced all our PE boats with composite boats and will never go back - fiberglass is repairable and stiffer and faster and lighter and so much better looking and will last 10x longer than soft PE plastic. I would not trust thermoform plastic - crack it on a rock and your boat will sink.