Choosing a kayak - length matters
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2021
- If you are new to kayaking, here is most of what you need to know about how the length of your kayak affects its performance.
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The way you said back and then “stern!” scared me so bad. Great video, info and production wise. Love it.
Thanks for stopping by! Sorry I scared you.
Thank you! Am just beginning my research for purchasing a first kayak.
Great content, thank you mate. Much appreciated!
My pleasure, thanks for stopping by!
Awesome breakdown. I appreciate you explaining kayak terminology!
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching. If you are new to paddling there is a playlist called "choosing a kayak" check it out. czcams.com/play/PLxWiyhCDqXtnsl-Db8wcdrJ8brO3SHwod.html
This is/ was very, very helpful Thank you :)
You’re very welcome. In the next month a video about “kayak Rocker” will go live. Which is another factor in kayak design with huge implications for performance.
Great information and thank you.
You’re very welcome. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for having this conversation.
Thanks for taking part in it. Big fan of your channel, thanks for stopping by.
I am brand new to kayaking, and this explained so much to me.
My girlfriend has 2 9' kayaks and has asked me for a couple of years to go with her. Early this summer I did, and didn't have such a good time. It was so much work to go nowhere, and get there indirectly by zig zag. Then at the end of summer I had a camping trip on a lake planned with my daughter and she wanted to try kayaking, so I bought 2 used boats - a 10' Pelican sit on top for her and a 12'9'' Wilderness Systems Tsunami for me. I had SO much fun that I've been out way more often than I ever thought I would.
BTW, 2 used boats and paddles only cost $750. No tax
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching. The Tsunami is a great boat, we used the 140 and 145 when I worked at REI and the students loved them. Let me know if you need help with anything.
Great information!
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for stopping by.
I'm buying an old 4m ww slalom as my first real kayak but to use on coast and flat water, I want to use it for fittness and to develop good form but was going to put a detachable skeg to make it track bit easier.
Good luck.
Well u just answered a lot of my questions about kayaking , I’ve recently took a renewed interest in kayaking but I know absolutely nothing about the sport , boats , paddles etc; I’ve been watching kayak building videos but just don’t have the time for that currently, maybe later , but after watching your video I’m definitely wanting a longer type vessel, I’ll get a good used one if I can find one , what name brand would u recommend ? Thankyou for sharing , Mike
Assuming you are in the United States, you have a bunch of big brands working in rotomolded (sometimes called Polyethylene or “poly”) plastic. Wilderness systems, Perception, Dagger, Old town, among others. For a boat made like mine is, which is thermoformed plastic, which paddles more like fiberglass, look at Delta, Hurricane, and eddyline. Is there another aspect of kayak design you would like to see? As a follow up to this video? Thanks for watching!
@@AdventureOtaku yes I’m from southwest Virginia , well actually I’d like to have 2 , one for fishing & then one for just recreation , just to take out on the local lakes & enjoy riding around, Thankyou for replying & this has been very helpful.
I am the type that typically buys a higher end product for the largest discount possible for most purchases. I also tend to buy higher line products even as my first entry into the hobby. I grew up competitively skiing including in college. I am looking for a "midsized" 12-15ft, light weight kayak. Have been looking at Eddyline & Swift. I am 5'11" and weigh 220lbs. I am open to used so am trying to keep the cost under $2K. We live and have a dock on the lake we will be kayaking on 95% of the time.
Then thermoformed plastic is without a doubt the best option.
Very useful video thank you. I'm not versed in kayaking, but believe it would be useful for my line of work. Living in the swampy rivers of south GA north FL. I need to away to better transport gear form location to location.
I believe a short, light weight, sit on top kayak is for me. something I can carry/drag easy enough thru the woods, maneuver down narrow rivers, and because I am not a very strong swimmer a sit on top sounds safer for more open water.
Sit on tops are usually heavier that sit-in’s of the same length. But regardless it sounds like it will work for you. If paddling on open water please take same time to get comfortable paddling - if not taking an actual lesson, it would make your life much easier! - and always wear a Lifevest (pfd). Thanks for stopping by.
If you’re transporting gear have you thought about a pirogue?
@@adamalford5650 Its not a lot of gear, camera and electrical related mostly. From my under standing pirogues are just simple dugouts of canoes. most of those would be to long, I need something really short, that would be easy enough to carry by myself. I recently was given a second hand sit on top, its still a little big, 9ft. but other then that its been working perfectly.
I am worried about dragging it on the ground like I some times have to, its just big enough that I have a hard time tooting it over my head, but the scratches on the bottom are superficial. tho given time will shorten the life of the kayak i imagine.
Thank you
You're welcome
No fluff, all great info! Thanks for the video
Glad you liked it. Thanks for stopping by!
Another thing to consider is that it's the water line length that determines the hull speed. A 14 ft boat with a raked bow might only have a bit over 13 ft in the water, whereas a plumb bow has an LOA and LWL that are about the same.
Hopefully more people will take up sea kayaking. The market seems to be dominated by SUP and fishing kayaks. It's getting hard to find more than a handful of composite sea kayaks available.
You are 100% right on both subjects. I have a video coming in about a month that talks about how small and how little support the sea kayak community gets.
@@AdventureOtaku If you think about it, hard shell sea kayaks have only been around since the 1970s. We might like to trace the roots and origins back to Greenland or Alaska, but hard shell sea kayaks are just a blip compared to skin on frame boats.
Then again, the 150 lb sit on top fishing boats of today resemble a raft more than a kayak.
Our short lifespans do have a way of making 60 years seem like a long time.
Again, I agree 100%. while the roots go way back, what we are seeing now if relatively new (in the scheme of things) - now im wondering what kayaking will look like in 30 years... Ill think on that. thanks!
Hopefully you are still reading these comments, 2 years later! A lot of video reviewers discuss the needs of large paddlers and how they need to avoid shorter touring rec kayaks. I am 5’4” at 135 lb female. Is a 10’ or 12’ kayak better for me for lakes and slow moving rivers, 2-3 hour paddling? Would my light weight make a difference for tracking in these shorter kayaks. I am looking at Thermoform kayaks, specifically Eddyline Skylark 12 or Sky 10, but also your examples of root Pungo 12’ or Aspire 10’. Having a hard time finding dealers that demo or videos that discuss this. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I work really hard to respond to all the comments - its hard with reply’s because CZcams doesn’t always show them to me! - but in answer to your question….Im 5’6 (and a half!) and about 30 pounds heavier than you. So not a huge difference. If you wanted to paddle a longer boat you can, i paddle a 17 foot boat. It comes down to your goals, what do you want to do? Where do you see yourself paddling in 2 years. Day paddles? Overnights? Multiday? Buy the boat for what you want to do and then make the boat work for you - which in your case probably means outfitting it so you aren’t sliding around in the cockpit. One final word be careful with thermoformed on rivers. They dont like sharp rocks. If you want to continue this conversation feel free to email me Brett@adventureotaku.com
Great info
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching.
I have a 12ft boat tracks well and average 4/5mph its a eddyline rio it has touring fit. I started out with a 9ft sit on top and was great but when i got the rio wow i was getting more distance from the same amount of energy i was putting in my 9ft.
The rio is a great boat. But now imagine if you went to a 14 foot boat. Better tracking and faster still.
@@AdventureOtaku yea I eventually will get the sitka st its a 14ft boat touring from eddyline. I just got my rio as my first sit inside this month!
I know the Eddyline boats pretty well, and the cape lookout trip I did a month ago there was a Sitka along. Great boat.
I chose Riot Edge 11. And after 2 outings, I love it. However, 11ft is barely enough to get enough gear in for doing much of anything at camp. I'm looking at creative ways to pack my gear as well as looking at a reduced size sleep system. My 4 season sleeping bag is way way too big for kayaking. I'm perhaps about to switch to a summer ultralight bag
Yes, exactly. You are essentially going to become an ultralight backpacker but in a kayak. Which for me defeats the purpose, unless you are on a river and need a boat that small. But, that said, the riot is a great boat.
@@AdventureOtaku I did buy this to do a hybrid rivers and lakes purpose. I'm considering doing the entire Nechako River soon from top to bottom. It's about a week journey and pretty easy.
I encourage trips like that! Have fun!
Hello ok I've found a kayak I like what do you think about a 17.5 cypress current design? 550 good shape.? I'm a beginner but I have been to Tybee Island kayaking a few times. Do you think this is a good boat
I haven’t paddled that boat, but thats a great price for just about any CD boat. I would jump on it.
@@AdventureOtaku thank you so much
What about paddle? Can a stiff carbon fiber paddle help out even when paddling the cheap kayaks?
This may be the best question I have EVER gotten. YES! It can. When I worked for REI I frequently told people, “before you buy a new boat, upgrade your paddle!” People tend to buy cheap paddles for their first paddle. Huge mistake. It is your connection to the water. It’s like putting cheap tires on your car. Get yourself a good carbon paddle, and THEN start shopping for higher performance boats. I actually tell people, before you buy a boat, buy a paddle and a PFD. Then when you are paddling rentals, or friends boats or whatever, you are doing it with a quality paddle, and a comfortable PFD. Because if you are renting, you are getting THE WORST paddles and PFD’s. Thanks for asking such a great question. Made my night!
@@AdventureOtaku I held a carbon fiber paddle the other day in a store and without even being on the water, I could tell that there would be more efficient energy transfer when I paddle due to less flex.
There is definitely less flex - though some say, even if there is flex, you get that energy back at the end of your stroke when the paddle comes back straight. I would rather have a paddle with less flex. BUT the other part is the weight savings. The carbon paddle will have a much lower swing weight. So much nicer, particularly as your paddle days get longer.
Nice content. You didn't say much on manueverability advantage of smaller vessels for say River exploration and camping. For me it's all about the rivers, camping and gold hunting. And hey they say there's gold in every river! Ocean too. Cheers though! And thanks.
I haven’t watched that video in a while but I am sure I mentioned that shorter kayaks turn better. (At least I hope I did!) absolutely, on rivers, a shorter boat is key.
6:06 jumpscare warning! Lmao
Knowledge is power but I get frustrated at the trend towards official courses. I do a lot of outdoor activities, including canoeing and kayaking. If I waited to do " training " I would have missed out on a lot of fun and experience. Training can be excellent. Safety is vital on water. But let's not let beaurocracy be a barrier.
Well, I think its a balance. I think people need to learn basics correctly. and then when it is time to kick it up a notch. But I have seen instructors with very little real world experience, and they can teach stuff great, but the little practical real world things are missing....
i paddel whole cost of Norway in 12,5 feet , an Boreal ,i have a short one becaouse i like olso small river , then i need a short kajakk , so when i shell turn i have plaise ,
Boreal, makes great kayaks. I never said you can’t do it. But you are giving up a lot of advantages of a longer boat that is designed specifically for a trip like that. I need to get to Norway to paddle it looks beautiful.
I found someone selling a second-hand recreational ski called Winner Strider for a much cheaper price than in my country. Actually, I want to take 15-20 km tours with this kayak, opening a maximum of 1-2 km from the sea. I know sea kayaks are much more suitable for this job, but my budget is enough for this kayak right now and I managed to find it for much cheaper than it really is. Can you give me some advice on this subject, will this purchase work for the tour?
so, its a 10 foot fishing kayak. At ten feet long it isn't going to track particularly well. which means you will be spending time zig zagging. I wouldn't want to do 15 km in that. But that's my opinion.
@@AdventureOtaku thank you for opinion. czcams.com/video/JPhT2y_bWvY/video.html what about this one, called seaflo ripple 12.
This model also has a rudder
@@borasoysal5723 well that'll help it track.
@@AdventureOtaku what about stability against waves and touring at sea
I thought I was a mature adult, but when you were talking about edging in your kayak I could not suppress my giggling
You’re not the first. Don’t feel bad.
What about creek kayaking? Over rocks and debris
Well, I don’t do river stuff but in general shorter is more maneuverable so better when you need to quickly avoid something like a rock or debris.
I was going to just go get a kayak, but that's not how I do things.
I work hard play even harder. Nothing "just cuz" it always "why" I do things.
Well, its good to know how you work. You can be authentic to you.
How do I transport one of these monster's?!
I have a video about how to rack kayaks! I made it during covid so its back pretty far. I drove a 17 foot kayak to Alaska from NC on the roof of a Toyota Yaris.
As a sport, the barrier to entry is low, but to do it safely and efficiently, kayaking is pretty expensive. A longer light weight boat, paddle, and drysuit really adds up if you live in the PNW and want to go camping or deal with long distances.
Yeah, I was referring to the buy in for rec kayaking. For touring it can get pretty high, but unlike something like cycling, you aren’t constantly upgrading components. Cycling the spending never stops.
That 10ft Aspire - has a Skeg, whereas that 12ft pungo does not, having paddled both there's not a heap of difference in the the paddling and speed and tracking of the aspire and Pungo even when you aren't using the skeg on the Aspire. . And your 17ft there is a Tsunami, 175 which is 17.5 FT (in actuality when I measure mine its 17.9 ft.) the Wetted waterline is 17.5 ft on it.
I just grabbed pics of boats as a reference. I wasn’t talking specifics about particular boats, just the general ways that changing length effects performance.
@@AdventureOtaku Unfortunately more than just length of goes into it. The aspire has hard Chinese wherein the pungo has a soft chine as well. I find just that fact can alter tracking.
Youre absolutely right, and it does, but as I said, I was speaking in general terms, not about those specific boats, for beginners. So you are right, but my goal was to make this aspect - length - understood by beginners. If I had delved in chines, rocker, width, etc, the video would have been an hour long, and peoples heads would have exploded from the amount of information I was trying to bring forward.
@@AdventureOtaku I'm not trying to pick nits, it's just in general you're correct, however it could also be a bit misleading since in your example the aspire is capable of performing like a longer rec-boat without the skeg in use, with the skeg at least on flat water it performs pretty close to a 16' soft chined rec-boat.
And I just wanted to point this out that in general longer plays out the way you stated but that there are always exceptions.
Absolutely, there are always exceptions. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
In a sit-inside kayak your weight is below the surface of the water. So if you sit still you bob like a cork in the water. Without tipping.
If you have been in a canoe without swamping it you can kayak. Canoes have a high center of gravity.
I find wide kayaks that spread my weight over more area loose that self-centering effect. Especially if it’s so wide that I have to lean to the side to paddle.
I like my paddle stroke to go right along my thigh. Giving me the most distance for the least effort. My Seda Glider is 21.5 “ wide.
I do touring/exploring-amateur guide kayaking. In the protected waters of Pine Island Sound near Ft Myers.
Back in Ohio I paddle lakes. The largest lake near here is 8 miles long. It seems so small!
People’s initial reactions to kayaking can be misleading.
You trade off control for the illusion of stability.
I dont know what you mean by “you trade off control for the illusion of stability.”
@@AdventureOtaku look at white water kayaking. Their kayaks fit them like a pair of pants. They can spin them around, dodge killer rocks, even roll them over. If they had a wide kayak the river would be in control.
The only time you need a wide kayak is if you were standing up to fish. They have them with outriggers for doing that.
The way to keep upright in a kayak is:
Brace with your knees.
Keep the paddle in the water.
Intuition takes care of the rest.
Some kayaks do not have knee pads. Glue some in!
I had 6 relatives show up in Florida. Most had never been on the water in any type of craft.
I collected kayaks from friends and took them all to the beach.
After a short tutorial they were all paddling. They waited on in turn for my 22” wide Seda. It could actually go somewhere.
My granddaughter pointed to an island across the bay and asked, “can we go over there?” (1/2 mile)
I said “sure, but we’ll have to cross the ship channel”
About halfway she stops. “I’m tired”.
I said “See that ship at the entrance to the channel? That’s the Key West Express and it can’t stop!”
She found more energy.
Her first time on the water. In a “tippy” kayak. Island hopping.
Sure the water was calm. The beach was shallow. Conditions were ideal.
Im well aware of how white water boats paddle. It may not be my first choice, but I have paddled them. I am also aware of the “new paddlers experience” having taught them for close to 20 years. I didnt realize in your statement about the illusion of stability you were comparing flat water to whitewater, and while I don’t necessarily agree with the use of the word illusion - I would say different - I d appreciate your insight and comment. Thanks.
@@AdventureOtaku Thanks. Sometimes I struggle to get my point across.
I wasn’t trying to compare flatwater to whitewater kyaking. Only trying to show some of the physical aspects of the two are the same.
Like stability.
And to respond to the myth of the wider kayak being more stable. The wide kayak is a tub that is more vulnerable to every wave and wake in the water.
For stability you need a keel and a low center of gravity.
I couldn’t imagine taking some flat bottomed kayak thru some 3’ breakers to get off of the beach.
The waves would probably flip me clear out of the boat then hurl the kayak at my head!
Rec. kayaks should be named wreck kayaks.
My daughter has a garage full of ‘em. For river kayaking. It’s a struggle to keep them pointed forward. They mill around like rubber ducks in a bathtub.
I hear this all the time “wider is more stable”. I’m calling BS!
The only way they are more stable is if you raise the center of gravity by standing up.
As Washington’s men said to him while crossing the Delaware River: “Sit down George, you’re rocking the boat!”
I’ve said repeatedly in the comments of this video that this is designed for new paddlers. The concepts are very simple and don’t include things like rocker or really hull shape. You can call BS all you want. But if you have two identically shaped hulls but one is 24 inches wide and one is 20 the wider boat will have higher primary stability. Yes a boat with a full keel and lower center of gravity will be more stable. And we aren’t talking about Rec kayaks here we’re talking about sea kayaks. Your comment about standing up making it more stable makes no sense based on the other things you have said. But in general wider is more stable. I’m sorry you disagree with me but that is physics, I didn’t make it up. Check out sea kayaking illustrated for great drawings and discussions of stability.
It's easy to make a 10 ft kayak go straight and not wobble with proper paddling. You sound a little snobish related to rec kayaks!
Ill admit to that. I am. I think everyone would be happier paddling longer kayaks. Ill own that. But you have to admit that most paddlers in rec kayaks don’t take the time to learn how to paddle, and make a ten foot kayak go straight. That is definitely what I see, and I spend a lot of time on the water.
Everyone and I mean EVERYONE makes the same mistake of buying a kayak that is too short-- the thinking being, "oh 10' is plenty long and EASIER to handle"
No-- it's harder to handle and more work.
My first boat was 16' 8".... but now I am paddling a 17' boat... so I guess you are right. it was too short, and everyone does it!
Narrow not easy to tip over? I think most newer paddlers would disagree
In the beginning yes. But surprisingly quickly it will get comfortable. And with that narrowness there are great advantages.
Im all for learning what works, but when you are alienating 80% of the people before you start not good.
I apologize for making you feel alienated. I am guessing you are referring to my statement about “if you are going into a box store like dicks or Walmart this video isn’t for you.” Again, I am sorry it alienated you, but I stand by the statement. If you are spending that little on a kayak/paddle combination you aren’t going to have a good experience. Yes, you will float, and have fun, but the boat will never perform well. If your goal is to explore a coast line, maybe go overnight, maybe get in some bigger conditions, you aren’t going to do it in a boat like that. I realize a lot of people can’t afford to drop 3k on a boat, neither can I. But for not much more than the boat you get at dicks, you can pick up a used touring kayak. To jump from $60 for a paddle to $100 for a better paddle isn’t that big of a move. But thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave a comment.
Stable
true
Where does your dog sit in the boat? Some boats don’t have room for the dog.
I love this! My dog doesn’t come paddling with me. Eloise weighs 60 pounds and is incredibly stubborn. She would not do well in a kayak!
Absurd camera angle
Yeah, there are some weird angles in this video…. Sorry. That overhead one… right?