Haunted Hyundai...Part 4 - ANOTHER Easter Egg?? (Easter Special)
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Customer gave us the OK to proceed with the timing job to fix the P0018 trouble code, so let's get dirty!
The plan is to install all new OEM upgraded timing chains, crank sprockets, and tensioners.
After removing the valve covers it becomes apparent that something weird is going on...and we may need even MORE PARTS!!
This Hyundai is truly possessed...
TESLONG NTS 500 BORESCOPE:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan
It's nice to know Hyundai's engine timing depends on a very small part which frequently breaks.
Wo
Absolutely not the only brand that uses dowl pins between cam and cam gear. (Volvo, i'm looking at your old remblock.)
There a lot of engines that have stupid designs like this. All in the name of saving a penny. Whose penny? Well, not the unlucky owner when they slip.
Two pins would have been nice lol.
Hyundai is taking lessons from Ford
That's pretty wild! I'd probably just slap in a $.10 dowel pin and hope for the best.
Thats what Hyundai did that causes this whole mess. But, it would have made it an Ivan no parts required special.
Ha you know that thought crossed my mind! 😅
Thought about that, too. If the pin can come out of the other side, is there a higher strength pin that could be inserted?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I thought you were just going to build up a nice big blob of weld, file it round, and call it a day!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics - But I'll bet that thought was as far as it went. Just a thought. You are way too professional for that.... besides, you were on camera!!! hehe...
You have that amazing ability to remain emotionally remote from your work . The best advice that I have ever recieved " never become emotionally involved with inanimate objects "
I'm learning that with software. Could have retired at 65 last year. I mostly enjoy coding. I'm pretty good at it. Since kicking the can on retirement, one system I designed is being redone. New vendors, new stuff. I know I won't be there to support it so I'm ok with others doing it. Was attending the meetings. I see the first test output. Ehhhhh. Told my boss, I'm not attending the meetings anymore. I'm going to take all this personal.
A good goal but difficult to achieve.
The moral of the story: sometimes there's no substitute for a good visual inspection. Otherwise, you're chasing ghosts on a screen.
Only you Ivan, only you. Thank you, I was contemplating the purchase of a Sante Fe. Think I will pass for now, you just saved me thousands!
These cars are just like BMW's made to last just past the warranty period.
6 years ago I bought a dodge truck with a 12 valve diesel motor. I did research and talked to friends and relatives who had experience with this motor. They said the first thing to do is fix the “killer dowel pin”. Companies even make a kit for this. Peace of mind on my many road trips.
This man is an absolutely amazing and brilliant mechanic....
Hyundai dealer tech: "No, the cam/phaser won't come out without removing the timing cover as there's not enough clearance." Ivan: "Hold my beer..."
I guess fitting 2 dowels would of made the car unprofitable. 🤔🤭
Excellent diagnosis Ivan. Keep that Kia tech on speed dial.😂
Better a key and locked down with the strongest possible means.
You win. I have experienced the GDI valves carbon issue on my 2013 Accent with 80,000, severe pinging and oil consumption 1 qt / 500 miles, dealer told me this is 'normal'. Sold it and just using my 2005 Ranger. After this video, I will never buy another Hyundai or another any GDI without multiport. The only smart person(s) in this video are Pine Hollow for their expertise/patience and the first owner who traded the car in.
Yeah same. At least Hyundai/Kia's new Smartstream engines are Multi Port Injection (MPI).
@@MTTech thanks for letting me know. I did not realize that they made a change.
@@TwilightZoneX Actually, I just looked into it. The Smartstream 1.6L Turbo/Non-Turbo is still a GDI. But the rest is MPI only, or MPI+GDI. Not sure why they did this. They should get rid of GDI only engines completely.
Unbelievable Ivan! Maybe full time Kia/Hyundai techs know this but who else would?? Your investigative skills are amazing. I understand the process------"what could possibly cause the problem and then go about eliminating them one by one"----however, something like this is so strange that would this even make the list of "possible causes" in the first place. Granted, this problem is kind of related to the twisted cam issue which in its self is strange and almost unheard of. Throw in the fact that you have a lot of pressed on components on that cam and you have a plethora of possibilities to consider.
Once again I applaud you for your persistence, patience and expertise. I gotta believe you did not receive financial benefit for this job commensurate with the hours spent. I don't know of any other mechanic that would have done this. I respect many of your peers like Eric O. Super Mario etc. and I am skeptical that they would have taken this situation as far as you did. They would have had to charge about as much as a new engine and when quoted as such most customers would have said no to repair and either let the car go as is or replaced the motor with a used one.
You are truly one of a kind, Ivan.
In the comments on Part 1 there were a few techs who had heard of the dowel pin problem.
I'm so impressed you got that camshaft out and removed the sheered pin, really excited to see the next installment 🤗
You are doing the world such a service by ALWAYS finding the true cause of any problem. Your diagnostic process is stellar because your understanding of the function of the machines and their parts. You, scannerdanner, Eric at SMA, and others help teach and your content will always be out there for generations to learn. Well done Ivan! PS: just dowel it
Ivan, your facts and thoughts are high stranded better engineering than the designers of the engine.
We love you for being on our side and for all your help
The poor owner who paid for for this Van………..! Lucky to have you.
Truly unbelievable and unmatched diagnostic and mechanical skills, Ivan.
If you look up " NAILED IT" in a dictionary this is the definition-
Nick Bee From Part 1
"Bank 2 intake CVVT has either sheared or pushed the locating pin between it and the camshaft. Now the CVVT is slipping on the cam and has bound in an out of time position. This is why when you energize the oil control valve you still get a reaction but base time on that cam is still off. When you pull the valve cover off you will see your timing marks on the CVVTs and crank line up great but the cam is off. Looking forward to part 2!"
Wow, what an incredible find, Ivan! See if Dorman makes a titanium dowel pin that you can slap in there. Hahaha.
@@rustyshacklefordspocketsqu8162 It also includes a pipe to put on your breaker bar to crank that bolt an extra grunt haha
I guess you could find a high tensile bolt that has the same diameter and cut off and use the shaft of that....
Genius idea,cold use a pice of black bolt and use the section that dosent have threads
Amazing. Technically you weren't wrong about the timing being out. That GDI engine is going to continue to be a money pit
Hyundai you need two dowel pins for the load.
Ivan, ingenious stuff. You should have far far more CZcams subscribers, I always spread the word about how good you are whenever I can. Look forward to the final part.
Thanks Robb!
Wow. I had the exact same failure on an old Isuzu Rodeo. Cam moved in the sprocket. (No phaser on that one.) Ended up grabbing a cam and buckets out of a Honda Passport at the local LKQ for $30 and sent it on it's way. Thanks!
What an amazing series. I can't believe you were able to extract that broken pin so easily. I'm all in on this repair. Can't wait for the finale!
I think that's what impresses me the most about him. Most mechanics just keep throwing parts at the problem, at my expense. Excellent work!
IVAN YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY OUTDONE YOURSELF THIS TIME!!! HOLY FREAKIN MOLY!! YOU ARE A MASTERMIND!!!
Man Ivan, there is only 1 guy out of 100 that would do it this way.
EXTRA parts required! Love it. Well played my CZcams friend.
who is your friend?
Wow, I look forward to the conclusion video. When you were looking at the illustration of the phaser and the dowel pin, at around 17:00, I could see that you were looking at an illustration of a Dorman part. It was good to hear you say that you had the phaser on order from a dealer. It would have been awful if a Dorman part was the only thing available for a job like this, and then guarantee your work, with all of the labor time involved. I wonder if anyone at Hyundai USA is seeing this series of videos. This failure point is not something they should be proud of, for sure. And unfortunately, even after all of this, the direct injection, without additional port injectors like some other manufacturers use, has left this engine with all of that carbon build-up on the intake valves.
Oh, my word! That's crazy! I know the dealer we have been taking our Sonata Hybrid to would've never been able to diagnose that much less fix it. They can't even figure out how to diagnose a cylinder 2 misfire. So far, they've replaced the spark plugs, coil, and injector, and we still have a misfire.
That engine was not designed to be easily repaired. I'll never buy a Hyundai. You were terrific in determining that problem! Your customer found a great technician.
Great job Ivan. Always impressed by your ingenuity and never give up attitude.
The reasoning and deduction from the diagnostic supports the shifting of an component and you have narrowed it down . Wow a dowel pin 📍 shear on the cam/phazer wheel, a design feature with all that load on that cam, Nice dowel pin extraction.
What a nightmare to work on. But you are doing a good job. Too bad they aren't like boat propellers that have shear pins that can break, and are easy to replace on the propeller shaft.
I was a little worried when you tried pulling the dowel out while it was still hot and expanded. I thought you were going to cool it down first. But it worked great! Very cool 👍😎👍
Damn ! Love the determination ! Problem , How do you Even Bill for a Job that just ain't quite in the service manual ? Love how the Dowel just Popped out ! If it were me , No way that was going to happen ! Can't wait for the Final ! Thanks for Sharing
Crazy diagnosis Ivan! Your obsession with numbers proved out this one. Excellent work. Thanks.
Unbelievable! I'm so glad I don't have a Hyundai. Seems like a royal PITA. Great work and perseverance, Ivan!
You are a genius. One of the best mechanics I have ever seen/known. That is why they pay you the big bucks. You deserve it. Looking forward to the next episode. No thanks to Korean cars. Toyota only for me. My 2006 Corolla over 220,000 KM is still going strong. Knock on wood. Just regular maintenance.
Really Ivan 4parts? Ok man. I’ve not sat and watched a movie or gone to the movies because I can’t sit through it (gets distracting) but I have zero issues watching a 4 part series on ur adventures
And all this time I thought Fords we're the worst cars on the road. Great series to watch, your train of thought is fascinating.
I was thinking during a previous video about that twisted cam with you and Eric O. Go figure Hyundai a sheared dowel pin!! WOW Amazing videos can't wait for the conclusion.
The Hyundai ACME school of engineering.. Nice work Ivan! Very impressive.
oh the twists. its as if the knife edge wasnt enough !!!!
Nicely done Ivan. Had a similar issue on a 2012 Range Rover Evoque in the phaser. These parts required fixes aren’t always fun.
Good job Ivan, My question is if that dang dowel pin is that critical then why did Hyundai make it out of shit steel? I would have made that sucker out of the strongest metal on the planet, and put two in that camshaft one across from the other that would transfer some of the torque and stress to both pins, not just one weak pin. Ivan, I am loving this series, good luck brother. :)
because Korea
Excellent bit of diagnosis. More cliffhangers than the best drama.
Whew! When I saw you attempt to weld on the broken dowel on the cam shaft with a mig welder, I cringed. I don’t think I would have attempted that without a tig welder. Hats off to you and your steady hand you got it! Great video series so far! Going to watch the next video in the series right away for a happy ending.
That was incredible. Who would have thought this was the problem. Thank goodness the owner came to you, but damn that is still a big bill. You saved that man a load of money. If he went to anyone else would they have found out the problem on the first shot? Not at all. Another car I won't buy.
Yes, Ivan - you ARE the Magic Man.
Not sure if that dowel pin is really supposed to be under load, may just be meant for alignment, with the torque between the phaser and cam taking most of the stress. If the HPFP previously failed, maybe it jammed and put too much load on the cam and caused it to shear the dowel pin and shift the camshaft? Sort of like the Woodruff key on a lawnmower blade heheh.
Ivan really fantastic how you worked the problem out.
Mega impressive.
Movie Review: I loved the scene where the dowel pin came out!
The Ivan giggles; for a viewer of his channel it brings a smile and joy, for the car owner, not so much. Always such a total root cause analysis, most experienced techs would have tossed in teh towel, never Ivan.
why do people here keep calling him the best mechanic in the world? where do you people live?
At the start of this video series, I was questioning how a chain could jump that much and not be very noisy.
Great job bringing us along!
This is turning out to be an epic case study! Good job Ivan.👍
The way the valves carbon up on these modern direct injection engines is a disgrace
This is better than any Easter egg hunt I've ever been involved in!!!!!
I think the take away is to avoid Hyundai. Odd design issues and serious repair challenges has me extremely skeptical about this brand.
Yeah, I'm not a fan. Every brand has their issues, but Hyundai and Kia seem to have real serious issues more often.
The 2.5T dual injection (direct and port) is actually really good and it's also used in Genesis. They seem to just discontinue the bad engines though instead of fixing the issues... that's why I traded my 2.0L Atkinson cycle Kona even though it was only a couple years old.
These 3.3s go 200k easily. This is not a common issue.
Extremely poorly made reason why they’re cheap.. But offer all the bell & whistles
That's why Toyota has dual injectors on their GDI engines. They still put injectors portside also, so that they help keep the valves clean.
Ivan, this is why i watch your channel and people bring their cars to you. A lesser mechanic might have done the timing chain and then sent the customer to the dealership. You'll figure this one out.
Whoa, that was nail biting scene too see too get that camshaft out lol. Good call on that busted dowel! Wow, broken! Nice to have Keith in speed dial and have hyundai guy call ya, lol. That was like surgery precision with those hands and boroscope !! Haha. That's how detailed view i could give! Nice that owner is understanding of what is going on. Most don't! You're the man! Excellent video!! Many many thumbs up!!
What a nightmare! Great reasoning in face of an almost unreal problem!! Great job taking the bolt out, removing the camshaft and removing the broken pin. This is like a suspense thriller 🙂
What A Nightmare , No Turning Back Now
Ivan`s Tools + Knowledge = Winning Combo 👍
Ivan, you are a genius, you have the patience of Jobe, and your arsenal of tools (and I'm talking skills) is outstanding! In one of the comments in a previous video someone mentioned the dowel pin. So here we are. I'm sure at this point you are grateful for the support you've received from friends. Looking forward to conclusion. Also wondering if you'll ever let another Hyundai into your shop. Thanks for Sharing!
Super impressive! Doing the impossible that the service centre can't do....
Hadn't realized that GM had trained Hyundai's engineers. It explains a lot of the problems you found.
What an amazing result! Good job persevering to get the camshaft out without disassembly of the timing cover/chain etc.
It was a pretty tough puzzle tbh... Only one sequence to get it out lol
This is one of those "can of worms" that I'd be too nervous to open. Your confidence is unmatched!
Ivan
Holy s… (crap). I mean talk about digging. Damn, you never give up. Way to go Ivan! Some people would say if there is a will there is a way. You just proved that.
A Rabbit Hole worthy of the Easter Special haha
You never cease to amaze me Ivan, LOL great video
WOW IVAN ,great workmanship.1st you ran into the issue that you thought {correctly }that the cams were off somehow.OK FINE 2nd And much harder was you figured it's NOT caused by slop in the chains.Then you probably said "WHAT THE HECK?"And this video was the most important one.!!! YOU figure out the phaser and the relucter cam DON'T LINE UP RIGHT.After looking at the print you spot the DOWEL PIN !!!!BINGO ANT THEN you manage to Pray to the gods to ALLOW you to get the cam out without disemboweling the motor.haha And the you get the dowel pin out. ALL THIS when the dealership would have SWORN IN COURT
He still has to pull the cover to get it back together. Prob should have just pulled the cover initially, prob about an hour worth of work at the point he is at now.
Hyundai tech: no shortcuts on pulling the phaser ...
Ivan: hold my lemon squash baby ... :-)
That's freaking amazing!!! Ivan for the win!!!!
Just recently diagnosed the same issue on a Kia Sedona
Bank specific misfires along with trim issues and found dowel broken and shifted in the phaser.
Stinking high pressure pump must really load that cam.
Weak spot , ya the dumb dowel
I was able to reuse cam and new phaser installed
Perfect
Wow! I would have expected the dowel to be hardened and less likely to shear. Great diagnosis! I've never had an issue as strange as this. Well, I did find an auger engine carb missing a drilled passage - but that wasn't nearly as technical or complicated as this. Strange things do happen, and you have to keep an open mind.
Ivan. I got home and was thrilled to watch this video. What a great diagnosis about the Phaser and pin. Well thought out and to dig and have confirmation from the Hyundai tech would have been sweet confirmation. Very proud of you. Cannot wait for the next video. Thanks for everything! Cheers
Super surprised that their isn't a heap of tweaked intake valves to go along with this debacle.
WOW...This thing is making my brain hurt
In Europe, the Nissan X-trail with the 2.2 Diesel engine has on the exhaust side cam the vacuum pump chain driving sprocket. From that sprocket, the camshaft ps get it's signal. The sprocket is positioned with a 3mm pin. Over time it brakes, the symptoms are that the engine starts for about 1 second, then shuts off. Good thin is that the engine timing would not go off, like on that hyunday, may cause valve and piston kiss in extreme case.
Temp fix is to disconnect the cam sensor and put in limp mode to get you home. Usually a needle bearing needle is cut to length, or a good quality drill shank.
Epic case study!
Thanks Josiah! I felt like I was doing surgery...one wrong move and game over lol
thats an amazing find . also a tap on the choulder for the owner off the car ,
for doing the right thing .
"choulder"? what part of the body is that?
@@aleempore3759 maybe its shoulder . am not a englichman .
I said it in the last episode...cut your losses. Next problem is a valve job...at least they need cleaning at the very least. I wonder if Hyundai should do what Toyota does...dual injection. Ivan...great save on the camshaft. That was real real slick. Some may argue with me....BUT I have seen enough, heard enough and have personal experience with Hyundai and I think they are not as good as Toyota or Honda. Since the hi pressure pump is driven by that camshaft, the lock pin should be made larger or have 2 of them to be safe. Clearly that one Lone pin is over loaded.
Ivan, you are a genius!
Rainman Ray, and others I'm sure, have a procedure to clean the intake valves. Feeding in the cleaner into the air intake. It does work if done properly; see the videos. Holy mackerel, if it isn't one thing it's another with this project. Great video, I hope it all works out well.
GDI intake valve cleaner works good.
Ivan has just set the phaser to stun.
Great work I wonder how many other models have this fault he said 4 cylinder are worse 🤔,keep up the great content 👌
Well done :-D
That position pin came out so nicely, perhaps the heat from welding a handle on helped.
i was happy it didn't become a nightmare.
i thought i was being silly by thinking about marking the chain.
I was still mentally running away lol.
So is it safe to say the additional h/p pump load is the cause of the dowel pin failure? There was someone in a Hyundai Forum (who may have been a Hyundai Tech) who said they had seen phasers 'bounce on the dowel pin, eats align hole, and pins come out of place due to holes in cams drilled too deep." Those were his words FWIW. Who knows.
Hi Ivan,
Boy, that was luck getting that pin out of the camshaft. I applaud your tenacity to solve an unusual problem and save the customer money. Stay safe.
Ivan you can use quality drills and taps….. it’s cleaner than Welding and they make cobalt and carbide drills and special taps for extraction in hardened materials!)👍😸
I like how you make it easy to follow what’s going on! After eliminating one thing after another, it became very clear that something had to have moved! Thanks for being so thorough in your diagnosis as always! I wish all mechanics were like this! Thanks!
I had a dowel pin shear off underneath the VVT sprocket on a Nissan RB30DE engine that I built myself,it sheared off back in 2007 when I was driving 1000 kilometres per week to & from work.
The engine was a Nissan RB30E engine which I bolted an RB25DE cylinder head, pistons & high volume oil pump onto,it ran with the RB25DE ECU from a 1995 Nissan R33 Skyline GTS.
I just happened to have some metal dowel pin of the Same diameter but I had to cut it down to length,I don't know what caused it to snap & I'm lucky that I didn't bend any valves !
This is such an epic series. Can't wait for the conclusion.
Ivan, you are a very clever and resourceful man.
Balls of steel Ivan 😂
This is now personal; I have to get to the bottom of it no matter what. Good job.
Stressfully entertaining but it’s really a thrill to see you back down the ladder of logic and actual this works.... if that works, method of mechanical reasoning.
Please forgive me as I’m gonna give you some hints about the dowel removal. Ida done the same thing but you left yourself open to a litany of nightmares. Welding produces splatter or buckshot. You don’t want your genius thought pattern being shot down by getting splatter from the welder on the bearing or cam lobe surfaces!!! Defeat by uninsight!!
Cover that cam up!!! Wet rag or washcloth or towel. Copper flashing... anti spatter spray or nozzle gel or a welding glove... even... GOD Forbid, your leather jacket !!!!
Doing the big think will be shot to hell if you get a piece of splatter stuck to a bearing or cam lobe.
Always wear a raincoat to prevent unintended issues!!!!
Running thoughts:
This pin should have enough strength to hold the normal torque forever. A normal torque can not be that high, otherwise there would have to be huge thermal power dissipation, in 10's kW range and that would not be possible to cool off. The only thing that may shear such thing (or a key, used sometimes to hold the torque between shaft and a wheel) off is the cam shaft becoming jammed somehow. But then I would expect some severe damage on some other part of the shaft, at least some impact marks. Plus why would such fault be so common on this type of engine (or its 4-cylinder cousin)?
The only other possibilities for such huge forces without anything actually colliding is a torsion vibration resonance building up huge amplitudes. These used to happen on fixed timing engines, but here the VVT phaser and its oil fill should act as a damper, safely dissipating the vibration and so preventing large amplitude from building up. Maybe when there was low oil pressure in the system. And that could be then the link towards the bad solenoid valve: Nonworking solenoid valve caused the phaser to operate without sufficient oil pressure, even on its end-of-travel stop limit, so with hard, undamped resonance oscillations may have developed at some critical rpm, overloading and so shearing off the pin. The vibrations may have come from the high pressure fuel pump (therefore it affects just the cam shaft driving the pump), or from the chain links going across the sprocket teeth (we are talking about kHz frequencies, essentially the frequency of the "cling" when you hit the part with something).
But all that is really strange.
Love the critical thinking. Great questions. Perhaps harmonic resonance has something to do with it. On a sudden hard acceleration that pin takes a beating: accelerating the camshaft WHILE advancing it and driving more fuel through the HP pump.
Weld the dam think to the camshaft including fitting a new dowl pin and you will never have that problem again.
Sorted.😉👍👍.
That's definitely a job you never want to do twice.
GDI cars should do what Toyota has done and have fuel injected into the intake manifold during certain engine loads on some of their GDI engines. It adds complication but is worth it to keep the intake valves clean on GDI engines. For example the Toyota GT Yaris 300HP 3 cylinder, amazing car.
14:02 someone called this on the first or second video, apparently the dowel pin failing and causing strange timing problems is known to happen on these engines. Unbelievable.