Victor Davis Hanson Debates Immigration
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2024
- Join us for a thought-provoking debate on immigration between two distinguished speakers, Dr. Ben Powell, economist and director of the Free Market Institute at Texas Tech University, and Dr. Victor Davis Hanson, renowned classicist, military historian, and author.
In this lively and insightful discussion hosted by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute in 2006, Dr. Powell and Dr. Hanson present their contrasting perspectives on immigration, exploring its economic, cultural, and historical implications. This event provides a unique opportunity to witness a nuanced exchange of ideas between two prominent figures in their respective fields.
The ISI is dedicated to fostering intellectual exploration and promoting conservative principles in higher education. This event is part of ISI's commitment to engaging in meaningful conversations that challenge and broaden perspectives.
Share your thoughts in the comments section and let us know which arguments resonated with you. Don't forget to subscribe for more insightful debates and discussions.
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Powell got his wish, and it’s a disaster
This is 18 years old and NOTHING HAS CHANGED
The situation has actually gotten worse
Can b🎉dzxx
VDH has way better hunch how its going to be. Human "spirit" is that if requirements are too high, they (newcomers) simply turn to crime. Can be seen in black,white other neighborhoods already. So Dr Powell has naive upper middle class sentiment shining through in this. Likelyhood of getting more and more criminals gets higher over time as those ideal adventurous smart,hardworking people have come as first wave.
Yes it has changed. It has gotten worse by orders of magnitude. Lets have the two interlocutors have this debate today focusing on how their positions would have made the situation better.
Should have built a wall in 1985
VHD is arguing from the real world and the economist is arguing from his model where he can control the variables to get what he wants.
As someone who has bachelor's and master's degrees in economics you are spot on. I experienced this in my educational career where intellectuals hope to shoehorn societies into the models they build. The Marxists are the best example of this, and we've seen the result of forcing the Marxist model on the real world.
@@Old_Patriot is like a tunnel vision for them, they are incapable of thinking outside of their books and theories
atleast scientist do actual test to prove their theories.
As a farmer and a distinguished scholar, VHD is a realist and a visionary. Unfortunately people like him are not running the government. He exemplifies what the founding fathers who ran the country for it's good and not their benefit.
Btw, I spoke no English when I arrived here in 1960. I started tenth grade two weeks later followed by college. I paid for my education working in restaurants after school and later in college I worked for a trucking company loading/unloading semis. I finished college with money in the bank. My children also finished college and higher without any debt as we paid for their education. I find it hard to believe today's situation where college educated people expect their trashman or business driver or plumber to pay off their debt!
Powell is so far out of his depths...and yet he acts like he is well above it.
Dunning Kruger
He flew over the midwest and saw all kinds of open land? That land is already owned by people. It isnt his to give away
One of the things that has always struck me about the immigration debate and the problem of illegality is that the displaced citizen laborers are seldom, if ever, mentioned. I worked for years building homes in the Phoenix area during the 1970s and 1980s. I was able to support my family of four without the necessity of my wife having to have a job outside the home. Today, most of the citizen tradesmen building homes have been replaced by non-citizen, illegal workers. The only place where this isn't true is in very small towns or rural areas where homebuilding is still carried out by small, local contractors. The wages of construction workers have fallen over time, but I don't believe home prices have reflected the lower labor costs to contractors.
I think this is part of what VDH is referring to when he says we must consider ethical, moral and other aspects of the situation, but you are so right that it is nearly never mentioned. I remember being able to earn well cleaning houses when I was young, just one part of the economy completely dominated by "immigrants" now. Also not often mentioned is that often native people are actively discriminated against in employment, and starter jobs are very hard for young Americans to find these days.
can you give estimate how many illegals, often no training, no experience, are needed for one skilled person like you? Seems domestic trained people are now just glorified managers who despite enjoy 2-3x salary they would get actually doing the job, then need big teams to do work and quality is shoddy due to various issues... thus price goes up, simply because more people=more problems, inefficiency.
This one one of the real reasons it exists, the megacorps just want to prevent wage growth, prevent organized labor, and get more consumers.
The "Borders are racism and xenophobia" are just useful idiots of the megacorps.
Grug: Dey takin' our jerbs! South Park!
Midwit: You can't say that, it is racism and xenophobia!
Genius: This is the law of supply and demand from an economic textbook.
I am a naturalized citizen who has gone through vetting prior to receiving a visa even though my father was an American citizen. I, and the rest of my family, immigrated to the US in1960.
During my career as a chemist working for a multinational corporation, I had the opportunity to work on projects in Switzerland and several other countries around the world. I found the Swiss system dealing with immigrants working there as one our government could use to address this issue. The Swiss allow immigrants to work there for eleven months, leave for one month and then return for another eleven months. While in Switzerland they are not hiding making reasonable wages and paying into the system similar to Swiss citizens. They, however, cannot apply for citizenship. The Swiss use this system to get needed labor without immigrants entering their country illegally.
Very interesting!
@ckroustalis8244
There are 2 doctrines that cover Immigration, Jus Soli & Jus Sanguinis.
Right of Soil & Right of Blood.
Europe & much of the world favor the Jus Sanguinis doctrine which is what you're describing in Switzerland.
My old babysitter & her husband worked in Germany as English teachers (non-Military) the children they had while living there were not considered German citizens.
From what I understand & I'm not an Attorney; the reason we use the Jus Soli doctrine is due to the 14th Amendment. However the 14th Amendment was meant to be just for the African slaves. Regardless of what the Left believes, the US has had Immigration Laws since the 1800's.
Illegal Immigration has caused so many problems that I think we need a new Amendment or there needs to be a Court Case which goes to the SCOTUS so we stop the Jus Soli system and move to a Jus Sanguinis system like Europe.
btw, you're the sort of Legal Immigrant that we need. Before Australia and Ireland
got 'woke' they used to set limits on Legal Immigration. They only allowed Immigrants to come to their country who had professions which were in demand.
So basically, their Immigration System was worked around the needs of the country not the needs of the Immigrant which I think is how it should be.
Like VDH said most of the Illegal Immigrants who come here don't speak English and have only an 8th grade education. These workers are considered "Unskilled workers" and as our society becomes more technologically advanced there is less and less demand for unskilled labor.
2006
This aged very well
Re-elect Donald Trump to solve our border problems.
Like he did last time when he had both houses of congress? He'll make things better but the man is incompetent and he can't keep highly competent people willing to work for him. Ironic that that the "you're fired" guy couldn't clean house and kept on people who should have been purged from the system while the real principled conservatives could only take so much of his foolishness and lack of focus. We are inthis position because trump failed. He's a loser.
And be sure to support pro Trump senators and congress in order to get success. Remove all RINOs, cucks, and swamp things!
Yes, Trump did a great job on the border issue in his first term didn’t he?
Please don’t allow Steve Bannon to handle any donations for building the wall. 😁
How will most Americans, not just employers and others with a vested interest in immigrants, express their wishes regarding "free association?" This term is a beloved yet vague one much relied on by Libertarians and Cato Institute types. I don't wish to be forced to associate with people hostile to my culture, religion, language and rights as an American, yet am forced to to do so by unlawful policies and actions. Neither do I freely agree to pay for or compete for housing, jobs and benefits with many millions of people who are unlawfully here. VDH is correct to say immigration is a multi-faceted problem and must be treated as such. There's not much benefit to increasing GDP if we lose our civilization in the process.
Because muh diversity and inclusion types, that's why. I want to have such people have to get all their services from DEI box checkers and leave us masses alone. I love seeing Japan and South Korea not give a shit about what those people have to say.
42:00 Then the people who vote in more immigrants to come in SHOULD HAVE TO sponsor them in THEIR LOCALITY and we should have multiple ellis islands at the border.
Nooo please nooo. Let’s say who voted for illegals need to pay for them. No stare nir federal support
They should SHOULD HAVE TO sponsor them on their dime, not mine.
This is why I loved seeing DeSantis ship illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities. If those people want illegal immigration so much, they can go be the change they wish to see in the world.
I live in El Centro, California. Today I saw approximately 50 men, ages 18 to about 35. All had cell phones, all had EBT cards, all were living in a hotel in Imperial, California. We have 13 million people here in California on Medical. No wonder we can't fix a road.
You and your fellow Californians voted for that 😂
@@darbyohara LOL....The Big Democrat Machine deserves credit for that one. My farmland is leased out, I've got my state pension, and it's Florida HEAR I COME!
California laid out the welcome mat it will destroy the state. At this point California should be its own country and they could have Oregon and Washington State😮😮😮
@@darbyohara We all get to vote for whatever the lobbying machine picks out. It is why there are so many uniparty jokes. As long as mega donors exist, everything is an oligarchy with an occasional change in puppets and puppet masters.
Hanson discusses the ACTUAL/REALIZED consequences of illegal immigration; Powell discusses the IDEALIZED/THEORETICAL benefits of illegal immigration while ignoring actual/realized consequences. Hanson is teleologically a realist; Powell uses a deontological approach to rationalize illegal immigration. According to Powell, the means justify the outcome regardless of consequences. Powell mutilates a rational understanding of the consequences of illegal immigration. Teleological ethics focuses on the end goal or outcome of an action and determines morality based on whether the outcome is good or bad. Deontological ethics evaluate the morality of an action based on its inherent rightness or wrongness, regardless of its consequences.
I'm ten years old, I can fix this...
I mowed laws and washed dishes when I was a kid, so much white privilege.
I live here all my life and it's hard enough to get by, what must it be like for somebody who's never even seen a traffic light?
That explains their incessant jaywalking that I had to come to a complete stop for them in the midst of rush hour traffic 😂
I saw video from ex policeman in UK saying how illegals cause deadly car accidents.... they simply dont care and drunk drive and have not roadworthy vehicles.
In pa if I let someone live in my home and get mail. We can not get them to leave. No way.
So, the guy quoting Hayek, says we have "programs" that inculcate immigrants with values, language etc.. Is he advocating for even more government schools and programs to do this work? This is absurd and not VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION. We have a complete disaster with acculturation now, for various reasons, among them, that people arriving now come with a La Raza worldview. After 23 years in the college system, I can attest to this fact.
Voluntary association was shot down by the mandatory civil rights forcible integration types.
The word and deed of "adoption" has been lost. If you sponsor a foreign individual, you put your estate up for liability.
Vdh and Ben Powell? The crossover I've been waiting for!
VDH is the wisest man in the world.
Young man I'll give u cudos for debating Victor
The kid speaks like a robot regurgitating information. Just take a deep breath and talk normal. It's not a partisan competition on the whole encyclopedia, just a friendly discussion on both sides of the argument the voters will have to simulate and decide. Thanks for your study and hard work.😊
Voters have made it clear for forty years were they stand, only to be ignored for those same forty years... Congress promised to close that border, when Reagan gave more than 5 million people amnesty... How many millions is it now? 10 million? 20 million? 50 million? The fact that we don't know, tells you all you need to know about the Federal Government...
I'm all for immigration... we need to attract the brightest and the best.. but what is happening at our open borders is criminal... and it's all deliberate........ 😢
VDH is correct, but the democrats are hell bent on unchallengeable, one party rule.
You watch yourself! I once flew back to the States, and on that card they make one fill out for customs and immigration, there was a s space for
' ethnicity' I wrote 'Visigothic / Vandal. Not even kidding.
Hope I am not disrespectful, I fill sorry for Dr. Powell
Do illegals NOT come to West Virginia because of the low wages? I thought it was because our road signs were not bilingual.
Just curious, had Dr. Powell ever had a job? I don't think he has even now.
VDH knows what he's talking about, pure, legitimate confidence. the other guy is far out of his depth, nervous and more worried about being wrong or right, since he himself doubts himself, it's obvious
And then nothing was done and it only got worse
When the majority wakes up to their ethical self and abolishes counterfeiting money from all, your little immigration problem disappears. A doctor once said, treat the cause of the illness, not the symptoms.
Money printer brr destroys everything. I love mocking alt righters who try to act like the Weimar republic collapsed due to "degenerates" and not that it was cheaper to burn paper marks than firewood.
Mr. Hanson always and only talks from within the parameters of establishment. The solutions today will require, thinking outside the box the box.
What Mr Powell doesn't understand is regardless of ANY NUMBER set for the acceptable
amount of Legal Immigration it will NEVER be enough for the groups who want to emigrate here.
As long as the US is the #1 Super Power & the leading Economy, there will never be enough spaces for all of the people who want to come here. The 2nd leading Economy is China and we know that China will NEVER allow unlimited Immigration. They have what, 2 Billion people?
They understand what it's like to have too many people.
I read an article which stated most of the population of Central America, South America and the Caribbean would emigrate here if possible. While looking for it (bc I forgot to bookmark it) I found a lot more articles.
So if we change the Immigration Laws to allow more people, it still won't stop the other people who still want to come here.
So when do we say there's enough people here? This man is so out of touch with the real world. VDH always says that Liberals NEVER have to live with the consequences which is why it's such a good idea for Gov. Abbott to send the Immigrants to Blue Sanctuary Cities.
Many of these people are non-English speaking, uneducated, unskilled workers. As the world become more technological the need for these types of unskilled workers diminishes.
www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/community-family/about-160m-people-would-like-to-immigrate-to-the-us-heres-what-that-means
Here's a Gallup Poll news.gallup.com/poll/468218/nearly-900-million-worldwide-wanted-migrate-2021.aspx
great thoughts from both
How do you resolve this issue of those who want 1,000,000 illegals and those of us who want none?. Meeting in the middle is not the answer.
Have the people who want it house illegal immigrants in their own homes.
Texas Tech boy is an embarrassment of higher education!
LIVE: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announces Texas Military Department base camp near border | FOX 4
1776-1860 We need them to pick crops.... 1865-2024 We need them to pick crops.... Same excuse different victims....
I would think the best solution is a guest worker program. Workers can cross our border as long as they have a sponsor who will be financially and legally responsible for the worker. Those workers who will not assimilate would have to return home during off seasons.
Hanson reasoning is far ahead of Mr. Economics Fixers rather inept floating gaseous and Fixed dilutions of fixing! 😊
There’s no screen it’s like radio we can hear his voice but you can’t see nothing
Dr. Powell position will change some as he gets older
Possibly. But being ironically sheltered from the "real" economy by being in taxpayer-subsidised academy, for life, can actually prevent this natural progression.
VDH was right. Powell was wrong. It is not a frinctionless supply/demand curve.
California is now failed economically and socially.
Maybe we should date this presentation I have no idea video says 2days ago,date stamp these videos
2006
Mr. Powell doesn't take into consideration land ownership and housing. All these years later we see all of the major cities of our country overrun with people who will never own land or a home of their own because they will never earn enough to make either of those things happen. If the children of upper middle class families can't do it; what chance does an immigrant from Venezuela?
Another point is Mr. Powell only talks about Mexicans crossing our border. Today citizens from Central and South America outnumber the Mexicans.
first part of comment is likeliest answer why second gen immigrants form and join criminal gangs in record number. What is there to loose? Dont have immigrant status anymore like parents, so need to compete with everyone else, but are not rich enough to get PhD in prestige university and right clubs to get right jobs. Prime recruit candidates for gangs like MS-13 in US. BTW this exact same happens in every single "western country" out there which took massive amounts of immigrants.
How come these guys never consider the fact that a much larger group would put political pressure for a much higher min wage? Yes the sheer numbers by themselves put a downward pressure on wages, however what politician would allow the removal of min wage?
How can he not mention, how the immigration laws were changed in 1965 and by whom.
If more jobs and more workers are synonymous, why not just have the government mandate a supervisor for each employee a company hires, there by doubling the available jobs overnight. Surely that would be a massive benefit to the economy.
that sounds communism the way they do things now :D every company has one "red phone line" committee member.
Perhaps Graeber's Bullshit Jobs book explains it.
A well regulated open border system can be beneficial. But it seems our society wants their cake and eat it too. Without making any sacrifices or compromises.
Need a real economist for this one.
Powell is from what state?
The state of Fantasyland
Delusion
Home slice contradicted himself. Immigration is an unambiguous economic good...we need to reform immigration so it becomes an economic good. Which I it there, young feller, if'n its an unambiguous economic good then it doesn't need reform, if'n it needs reformin' so it becomes an economic good, then it ain't one now
This guy Hanson is debating cracks me up !!! He's trying to argue 81% of Americans are against his flooding of our country . He has no argument and you can tell him his voice
The other 20% couldn't reply in English😅
WHAT is all that paper shuffling racket!!! Very annoying noise
Powel must be living in a gated community!😊
Excellent VDH! I just want to know WHO benefits from this CHOATIC System! An Argument might say “Yes! We should allow 1-2 Million People to our Country /year”. Hey, THATS WHAT OPEN Borders means!
Should have mined the border, along with building a wall.
Let’s go Brandon.
In & out of season 🧂
Infiltration works only to the extent that the host nation tolerates it
🆕🙌🕊❤️🔥🚪
Abundant life 👑
Hey I’m from the future. Turns out VDH was right and America is over.
Is this guy still holding to his thesis? We have seen no net gain from illegal immigration.
Powell wants any quantity at any time? 17:20. Like 6 billion people in his back yard?
this must be an old video?
2006, it says at the beginning
Powell needs to check his research because what he says as the solution for immigration is already in the law.
Typical economist who lives on spreadsheets and computer models and not the real world. VDH seems to be taking a humanistic approach based on compassion and yet reality. Hard to believe that this was nearly 20 years ago.
It was the 2006 way of saying "Line go up mean thing get gudder." There are good lessons from classic economic textbooks, but most modern credentialed economies are just paid "expert" talking heads. The science of "Smoking does not kill" never left, it just took up a different form.
The economist obviously has no real business experience. He approaches the subject from a theoretical, top down. Not from the bottom up, real statistics, mathematical analysis.
No numerical diagnosis.
It's quite distracting for a speaker to preface every sentence -- or every other sentence -- with the filler sound "Uh." With minimal effort, this bad habit can be overcome.
Mr fixit will not in the future be providing any benefit to his immigrant neighbors refrigerator, education, transportation or any other wants and needs of image ants or any other folks!😊
This is from 2006--misleading clickbait.
Still relevant
I dont think its misleading but it should say the year. I knew this was 10 plus year old video when I saw VDH .
Still enjoyed hearing this.
17 years--no news since then?@@SuperFarmer1978
If you tap on the ...after the word more, it does say 2006 and where the academic with no common sense works. But I agree with you that 4 days is misleading. And I think the 2006 belongs in the sentence with the title.
All the more relevant, as right now you have to be brain-dead or a leftist to deny the effects of illegal immigration on California.
I'm out. Cannot take the guy's Uh, Uh, Uh before during and after every sentence. UH!
I'm disappointed with was Victor Davis Hanson on deporting . That challenges and just argues the whole or I should say defeats the whole idea are having a debate or even having any laws at the border. He really let me down there!!!!!!!
He only talked about the practicality of deporting people who had been there for 30 years.
I would like to see half of the 50% for immigrant wages going back to their respective nations stay in the USA to better fund immagrant social needs I.e. medical, transport, education, etc. etc.!😊
uhh.. uhh.. uhh.. uh
The senator should find a car wash find a car wash, desperate enough for help, to hire someone his age, and obvious, do nothin, background.