Single Bevel Repair and GREAT Sander Modification.
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2020
- These knives showed up and I knew you would like to see how I sharpen them. I am using my sander with a great modification that really helps me out with large ground surfaces like these knives have. The sander modification part of the video starts at 6:30, if that's all you are interested in.
If I recall, there are two methods for Japanese knives: beta-togi and hamaguri. Beta-togi is the simpler method where the blade road is completely flat from the shoulder to the apex resulting in a much thinner, sharper edge.
Hamaguri, which I believe is the most traditional way to sharpen, involves slightly convexing the blade road which helps with food release and edge retention while losing a bit of top end sharpness.
It's much easier to resharpen for a novice if they didn't do hamaguri. I've got a Tojiro Yanagiba to practice on a waterstone and I'm getting decent results, but I sure wish it had just a plain flat blade road.
Great to see very skilled person doing what he is ment to do! Thanks for vid :)
Thanks PG, all good information
i wish i knew someone here in the uk who does what you do. really enjoying your page, thanks for the great videos and information.
Nicely done.
I'm really digging the "soft platen" you have built into your grinder. I do 90% of my professional sharpening on a grinder and that would be a great addition to the toolbox. I'll just put that grinder mod on the list with all the other things to do around the shop...... I'd have enough time to do it all if customers would stop walking through the door! By the way, solid work. I like the decisions you made around sharpening these knives and why you made them.
I redid mine. It now has a curve downward just a bit on the front1/3Way more versatile.
Your channel kicks ass. Just saying. You have this, "Yes, we'll do it" vibe that's really awesome.
Wow, Thats a complement! Got more in the planning. perhaps one at end of week.
Thanks for sharing your technique and the why. I agree that you are providing a quality service at the price you customer wants. Simply meeting the demand. Well done.
He completely butchered that knife. As someone with an extensive Japanese knife collection I nearly threw up watching this. He keeps saying purist. You mean if you want it done correctly to match the knife you paid for? Sure I can pay 7 dollars and have a butcher with a belt sander “sharpen” my knives that cost 50-100 times that much or I can pay what it takes to do it correctly
@@markhudson2997 he addresses that if you watch the full video. These were inexpensive knives and this is what the customer wanted in terms of a sharp knife for the price. He said you have to know if it is an expensive knife. He doesn't sharpen a $1,000 knife this way, but he also charges much more.
@@grantlauinger8663 I doubt very seriously there are any “cheap” single bevels. As a fairly avid collector (am up to 12 currently) I also know what it takes to sharpen one correctly. He butchered that blade. Saying your customer wanted it I suppose has a place, but I would have tried to educate the customer about what was actually required.
I have watched most of his videos and it’s easy to see he went the production route for sharpening. Belt sanders are fast and efficient but actually there is no method except his “feel” to hold, much less match bevel angles. It’s also a sure way to remove the temper from the apex edge.
A simply solution like a tormek could sharpen that correctly for about double the time he spent. Sure, you can’t run a knife in two minutes on a tormek, but you can get a precise angle and not destroy the edge.
As a professional sharpener, I agree that there are better ways to sharpen those knives. But as a professional sharpener AND sharpening business owner, I have to say there's nothing wrong with how he sharpened the knives. He did not butcher them; he actually made them much better than they were and completely useable. More importantly, he made his customer happy and if you're a business owner that's the most important thing. PG seems to be knowledgable about Japanese cutlery and how the blade geometry is supposed to be. With that knowledge he made some compromises, fixed some pretty bad problems, gave them a working edge that's probably sharper than needed, made them look better and did it at a price the customer is willing to pay (frankly, he charged less than I would have). That's a good businessman right there. Sharpening for yourself is a different thing altogether because you have the luxury to not worry about how much you are being paid for your time or worry about charging so much that you won't have a return customer.
@@chadlewis3515 I don’t know you or how you professionally sharpen. I can say this. Most professionals are only concerned with being good enough to get paid. They can’t hold a specific edge angle, they do it by feel. They almost always use a belt grinder and finish at maybe 400 -600 grit.
Anyone who actually sharpens higher end cutlery will admit matching existing, or setting a new precise edge angle across all grits is key to sharpness and retention. Let’s not even get started on temper and steel removal.
To be a professional sharpener all it appears to take is to own a belt grinder and seek out customers. If we are being honest that’s fine for s grocery store knife. In fact it is probably better than a factory edge. But if you have invested many hundreds of dollars into your knives, that’s butchering the edge and profile.
Always a pleasure to watch a skilled person do what they do. And that's a great sander modification. Just wish there were more of your videos to watch **Thumbs Up**
What a great video! I was fascinated to see your approach to doing single-bevel knives which as you say is not "correct" but a very practical compromise. An Itamae (professional sushi chef) will doing this himself by hand on waterstones not bringing it to the market, so it's not really important to it as they would especially as few people would be willing to pay what it would be worth to the sharpener. I use a cheaper Kalamazoo with most of those same belts and I'm going to have to try to track down the materials to do those platen mods! In the past I've done a bit of professional sharpening although my main vocation is being a chef, but nowadays mostly I do some belt stuff for the restaurant and hand sharpening on waterstones for my own knives. But I think I may have to take the plunge to a Tormek or a couple of the WENs to mess around with. Thanks!
I’ve mentioned to some sharpeners that a chef would make the best sharpener. Im changing up my sharpening system to something new that will improve what I can do in my time constraints. Subscribe not to miss out
great video. super effective technique. i especially like that you highlight the reality that there’s a big difference between restoring a working bevel / edge on a user knife versus sharpening as a labor of love on a pet knife.
Pet knife, I’ll use that term! Thx
What were they doing to those knives?? Especially the yanagiba. Looking rough…
Take a magic marker black and cover the bevel. Or use machine metal die and drip the knife in the die to cover the whole edge. Your eyes will love it. You will get a perfect edge. Use a guitar peck to check for nicks.
man! I love your videos, thank you! I really want a Kalamazoo grinder but want the variable speed. did you build that? is it 3 phase?
Yes but don’t get variable. Not worth the money. Kalamazoo has a new design that can lay down like mine
Do you have a video on your belt grinder/sander? What kind is it and what mods have you done to it?
It’s in one of them. Kalamazoo 1x42.
They have anew tilting design. It might need a guard removed, push block added to change belt and I like a curved, cushioned platen, rubber contact wheel
My sander works in my space. If you don’t have the same space limits I’d probably want a bigger contact wheel.
How hot does the blade get with that orange belt? What do you think the rpm is?
If new and sharp not much. If older you need to be careful at thin edges. Some shops only do one knife per belt to avoid heat. But they can charge enough for the service.
Would you share the specs about your belt grinder? Is it one you designed or built from a kit? I found your videos by chance yesterday and think I've learned some new things to try. Thanks jah
It started its life as a Kalamazoo belt sander and has had many mods. I have limited space/power otherwise I’d be looking for something more powerful. I’ll talk more on it Ina future videos
@@FREEHAND.WETGRINDER WRT to more power, what would that gain you sharpening thin steel? Another question is about the vari-drive, do you use the speed control a lot or have you found the speed that works for you and leave it set? A video about your purchase logic will be interesting. I have one of the Harbor Freight 1x30 that works well with my neighborhood volume, but I'm always looking for the "bigger/better" item. However, $50 buys a lot of patience over the cost of a bigger/better unit as yours... Thanks jah
Rarely now do I use variable speed except when I need to help out a customer who damaged a plastic handle. Plastic requires slow speed not to immediately melt it. More speed/power in a belt sander let’s you thin knife with out spending all day barely touching the belt cuz it you push it stops. Remember you don’t know what is going to be brought in for sharpening. If you ever sharpen a knife that has large bevels it probably needs to be thinner. I did a video on this process.
I was hoping to learn more about how you modified you Kalamazoo.
I’d start with the new design Kalamazoo sells then improve the plenum. Soft surface, slightly curved end
Bevel deflects and the back of the knife cuts.
Is there a reason you didn't straighten then edge before grinding the bevels? It just looks like in the "high spots" they are there because the edge isn't straight, it dips in at the "low spots". Just wondering, I've only done a couple kitchen knives, but they were from scratch, not someone else's. Hope all is well, take it easy.
They were flat. Someone just wasn’t watching the edge and made two low spots. If it had big chips I’d redo the edge first. Getting rid of all unnecessary metal. Then grind the bevel. My next video will show this with a old carbon knife. Any way, what works for a sharpener is good with me. Just as long as the end user is happy. My process isn’t the best, but it’s very good and fast & cost effective with the tools I have.
@@FREEHAND.WETGRINDER Right on, I get that. If you look where you show down the edge 6:48, where you put your fingers, in between that the edge dips in. If you look at 1:00 it looks real bad & wavy. I do videos too, so I know the camera can distort things, but that edge looked real bad. Nothing you did, I was just wondering if you left it like that because it wasn't your design. I was just curious, not critiquing your work, so I hope it didn't sound bad. I like your setup.
Dave , No insult taken. The knife is not complete until 9:30 ish. At 6:40 I was finishing bulk removal and I hadn’t started the refining process where I move to the softer graphite area on my sander. Once you get to 9:30 it’s smooth and uniform. IMO. Now if I had a larger more powerful sander with some sort of jig my results would be far better. But I need to deal with space and generator limits. You guys who probably profile knives as your main process I’m amazed at the flatness of grind. Even freehand! That a skill that needs practice. But I do one of these less than once a month. Completely flat grinds take me many try’s and a bit of luck. Buy adding the slight convex on the soft spot it’s fast and looks smoother. And for $10 how long can you spend with orders backing up. Now if I go to my whetstones I can get it very flat, but the time it takes makes that not an option. Does that explain? If not reply back.
P.s. that knife probably cost $30 when bought. You can only charge so much before it goes home dull. And I hate that the most.
@@FREEHAND.WETGRINDER Gotcha, makes complete sense. You're right, i'm looking at it as a designer, not someone fixing other people's knives. With what I've seen some people do to knives, you are definitely doing a great job.
When I need to reprofile the geometry of a knife, I use an upside down floor belt sander which has a 3 in. belt rather than just one inch of grinding surface, plus the floor sander has variable speed that helps me to control over heating and I have much more control on the while process.
Good videos Mr Peter.
Is that an older Baldor belt sander? You've done some modifications to the platen. What model belt sander is that?
Kalamazoo sander at birth.
@@FREEHAND.WETGRINDER It looks totally different than a current stock SM1 1x42 which has narrow wheels. Yours looks like it has wheels that can handle a 2" wide belt and has a third idler wheel and it looks like you are using 1" belts. Did you change all that? Or are you using 1x48" belts on a 2x48 machine?
Pool Pro it’s gone they many changes as my needs changed. Where it is now is so far from how it is as made I’d go another way if I was starting over. Items I would need are size- my trailer roof needs the low profile. Power-it’s enough power for the 1” belt. The variable speed lets me adjust the brake to stop it fast yet have it start soft to not choke the generator when it hits. Last item is the combo hard and soft platen with slack section
Pool Pro Pool Pro I started with that model It will make more heat but just be careful when you’re thinning a knife. I wonder why they have two speed motors so close in speed available? I’d call and ask them what the advantages of the slower motor are. The faster one is what I had.
@@FREEHAND.WETGRINDER Well I'm now really interested in a Kalamazoo. I read some posts over at Bladeforums about it and saw some other videos. It looks like a great 1" sander. Would you mind letting me know about that variable speed device you have on yours? Is that something that could be put on the current version Kalamazoo 1SM? The current 1SM has a 1/3hp Baldor(tagged as Kalamazoo). I called them and asked about putting a variable speed on it and the guy did not know or think it was possible.
so using a sander on any knife sharpening is only really meant for repairs as in dings and whatnot? Or is it because its a japanese knife that you couldnt sharpen that on a regular tormak or something.
Perhaps I’m not understanding but in this case the large bevel is best done on a sander if time matters. Stones if you have time to make it nicer. As far as sharpening. I put the edge on with my regular Tormek/wen with Tormek Japanese stone process.
If I missed you question explain.
Ps on a Regular double bevel Japanese or other I can do it on the tormek quickly. I just really lean into the stone. The water keeps it cool. Or I can belt sand all the edge damage away first.
But as always 5 guys will have 5 different ways to deal with a problem. All correct ways. I’m just showing my way. P.s. I have another example coming up in about a week. SUBSCRIBE so you don’t miss it
With single bevel knives such as these, you need a perfectly flat surface to work on.
The micro bevel can be put on as P G did it, with the Tormek as that little surface won't get concave, or with the polishing stone when sharpening on Japanese whetstones.
Some people use belt sanders for sharpening, but many sharpeners using belt sanders have been proven to remove way more material than needed, Cleancut from Sweden tested that with 2 identical Global knives, equal amounts of sharpening, the belt sanded one from another place was missing *A LOT* of material compared to the one sharpened on stones.
Motaz Hanson first off you can use a sander for sharpening. Some manufacturers do. You can also damage a knife with a belt sander and many do. Hear and rounding the tip and heal. As to the Japanese single bevel I would need a wet stone that spins like a platter to have the flat surface.
What is key is to explain to the customer how you are going to sharpen the knife and other options for them. I’ve never have had them decline my process. It’s a hassle to find a hand sharpener.
Zyx I agree. Belts are fast and often the weapon of choice with bad sharpeners.
That said many hand sharpeners use belts to repair then hand sharpen to remove evidence and put the final edge on. It’s a good process to save time and cost.