What Happens if You Connect a Battery to an Inverter without pre-charging the Capacitors?
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2023
- If you have built a DIY Solar Generator, I'm sure you are familiar with how you use a resistor to pre-charge the capacitors in an inverter. But what if you did not do this? What kind of spark will you get?
If you want to see how I actually used a resistor to eliminate the spark, go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video - • DIY Solar Generator Se...
Inverter - amzn.to/3zukjQp
#diysolar #solargenerator #diysolargenerator
If you have installed car audio before, that spark is very familiar 😂
💯
I seen where the install the ground last so it won’t supposedly spark
@@pikicustoms4628i will. I know from ebikes
Would be nice if you showed how to connect the resistor!
I have done this in a couple of videos. Go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video. I do show how to do this. czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
@@Hollywood-tr5wt I forgot My resistor on a job, and solved the issue, by using a carpenters pencil instead. Anything with a high resistance will do - it worked as a charm - no spark ;-)
czcams.com/video/IQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
Lol, I thought the lower case Lwas an upper case i....in the link
So I should put a resistor between to charge the capacitor? Going to slide my girlfriend between that should do it! The biggest resistor ever!😂
That explosion is a bad night of beans close to a campfire. 😂
How ‘bout some more beans, Mr. Taggert?
Overkill
Just hooking up a battery to the car cables causes a tiny spark!
Hell even hitting your driver at night causes a tiny spark.
People are starting to make things more complicated these days to make themselves believe they’re more intelligent.
It all depends on the output impedance of the power source. A small car battery might only cause some pitting of the contacts. A larger submarine battery could vaporize the contacts into a shower of liquid metal.
😂😂 the explosion edit 👌🏾
12V is too little, 48V is WAY bigger spark
Thanks. I'd rather not have a huge spark.
It’s not just about the spark damaging the lug, terminal, or nut. The inrush current can damage the inverter and or the battery BMS if your using lithium.
Those little resistors are so cheap, seems like inverter manufacturers should just included one with their product.
very true
@@proficientprepperif your buying a inverter your likely not going to disconnect and connect the battery often so it worth saving pennies
Yes but wouldn't you think the inverter company's would know this
It doesn't damage anything. The cap just charges
Never had this problem with any inverter but okay, I just make sure the power switch on the inverter is in the off position before I hook it up.
So why they don't ever mention this when you buy a inverter or why they don't send it in the box
That's a good point. Everybody suggests using the resistor (including me), but my manuals do not even mention it. I've heard experts say to do this too. It makes no sense why the manuals don't even mention it. Maybe if they mentioned it, then they should also include a resistor.
Agree!
And they're very cheap. On Amazon, 2 for 4.99! Shld b included in purchase of inverter. ❤
@@proficientprepper ...because the spark does nothing to anything.
@@proficientprepper There is a switch on the inverter. Turn it to the off position first, before you connect it to the battery.
YOU SHOULD DO GROUND AFTER POSATIVE
Don't worry about that tiny spark😂
It’s actually to keep from hurting your equipment.
Nope. Doesn't hurt a thing. That spark is about 1/100th of an amp. I install solar for 20nyears and I've never "pre.charged" a unit...lol. ridiculous
Nope just connect it
When I plug in my phone charger it produces the same spark !
Never seen that on my phone charger. But that spark was pretty lame. I did something similar a few days ago on a 24v system and the spark was huge. It actually damaged the nut.
It cracked me up the nuke going off, I've been doing electronics for well over 20 years as a hobby. I was doing a installation and a basic re wire on a camper. Now all was going perfectly until the owner decided to turn the inverter on and plug stuff into it without telling me, when I hooked up the leads well blew a hole in the battery post, many swear words was used 🤣🤣.
lol. Thanks for sharing. Glad you were not injured.
Lol this reminds me of when I moved my camper onto the landlord's land and he wanted to hook up the power because he didn't think I could do it right. I told him that it was a 30 amp 115 volt service that I needed.... He hooked it up as 220 volt and almost burnt my rig up. He's 80 and was an electrician. But he is very forgetful in his old age. Thankfully the breakers did their job but they were not happy and I had to replace all of them.
@@The_Sweep_Life Don't you mean he had to replace them all?
Only ever had one inverter, it has an off switch. Hooking it up while off gas prevented this
Stop being a baby a little spark never hurts
The problem is less the size of the spark, it's more that electronics don't like large currents, even briefly.
Oh boy. Ive NEVER "pre.charged" capacitors and i install solar on HUGE homes and commercial jobs.
I like the spark when plugging up power to ebike.......it lets me know its got all its needed connections getting power
That mushroom need a large capacitor 😂
At 12 volts there isn't much going on unless there is a short to begin with.
I've never used a resistor. But with higher voltage I will try to remember to use the resistor first. Ooops I forgot when I hooked up my 24 volt inverter and nothing much happened. The spark is only a little bigger. I'm guessing I would have to use a resistor when I hook up to a 48 volt battery for sure.
Or you can just not have it grounded (negative terminal) when you connect to positive side like any other type of DC connection
Love your graphics 😂 BOOOOOM! I laughed for 30 minutes 😂
😂 I jumped in my bunker!! 😂
Because you’re not supposed to connect the negative first. Always connect positive first and it won’t spark.
Where do you people keep getting this wrong information?
Very violent and it appears it momentarily bent time and space.
LOVE YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR 😂😂😅
12v isn't bad. The problem is when you connect higher voltages. The higher the voltage the more enegetic the spark. If you're that worried about the spark just install a disconnect between the source and the inverter. Then you don't need to worry about the spark on hookup. The resistor is actually important for safe capacitor discharge, especially on large capacitors.
You should always hook up the negative last. That reduces the spark.
Doesn't matter, electricity runs in a circuit, therefore it will be the same amount on either side.
That looks like something I’ll see when I plug something in an outlet at my grand parents house
Not too bad if you're only connecting it once and leaving it there
For a 2K and under inverter, it's not necessary. As you just saw, no damage to your inverter.
I was always told to hook the positive up first then the negative to avoid internal damages to electronics also you and use to a 12 volt lamp or test light to charge the caps with the Arc I've done that with amplifier
The sparks aren’t much for a small inverters. It’s them 5kva and 10kva that you will get a really big spark. But it doesn’t damage anything it’s just a convinces thing
Those inverters should already have some kind of inrush current limitation built in like switching power supples, right? You shouldn't have to do this, but I guess it helps stop the capacitors from acting like a short circuit at the beginning and therefore eliminate sparks completely.
Don't talk about Inrush current limiting. 😂 thing is 1)higher cost.2)idk. Well cost it is!
I have a 25kw inverter that I damaged (“It’s dead Jim”) when NOT doing the per charge routine. Preliminary investigation shows all 16 MOSFET’s shorted. It took a month to just get the MOSFET’s. Now just need to schedule a time to replace them to see if it can be brought back to life.
That stinks! Hope you get it working.
I usually use a small 12 volt bulb. the bulb starts out bright, then, dims down. If you mistakenly connect the inverter backward, the bulb remains full bright, indicating that the capacitor is not charging, and without damage to the inverter. Connecting the inverter to the battery out of polarity is disastrous! A resistor is fine, but, you really can't tell when the capacitors are fully charged, and it isn't quite as obvious if the polarity is reversed. The lightbulb will let you know if you didn't get a good connection as well.
Great tip!
Sharpen a number 2 pencil on both ends, does the same thing as a resistor
When that explosion happened, the unsubscribe confirmation box popped up. Lol
Funny
Never used to resistor in my life and neither does anybody else.
I have an 8,000 watt rms Taramps amplifire installed in my ride. When hooking up the power wire for the first time I thought I blew the lug off of the cable end.
"I have an 8,000 watt rms Taramps amplifire installed in my ride"
That seems unlikely. 8000/12 is 666 amps. Six hundred and sixty-six amps. What wire gauge would be needed?
"For a 600 amp project, this means using two 350 kcmil copper wires"
Wazzat? "A 350 kcmil tinned copper conductor with silicon rubber insulation and a K-fiber-Kevlar braided jacket has a nominal outer diameter of 1.050 in"
So you need TWO wires, each an inch thick, just for the positive.
Seems unlikely. It seems the amplifier does indeed specify: "MAXIMUM CONSUMPTION IN SINUSOIDAL SIGNAL
638A"
"It is recommended to use 2/0 AWG cables (70 mm²)to"
"A #2/0 AWG copper wire can carry up to 200 amps."
200 amps times 12 volts is 2400 watts.
Use a carpenter's pencil, sharpened on both ends. Easier to come across than a big resistor
Never worried about it. Its about the same size of spark you get when you recconect a vehicle battery. Much ado about nothing. If it was that important to do so, the instructions would mention it.
It doesnt matter if it sparks, just touch it once firmly and tighten the connector
I usually use a test light lol. I dont like the knicks the sparks leave on my beautiful buss bars/terminals 👍
A 48v 8000 watt would be like shorting a 5000 watt amplifier capacitor
I have mine on a Anderson plug take out and put in my car as needed
Or a lead pencil sharpen both ends
I had not idea you could do that.
@@proficientprepperthe graphite has a resistance so this would likely work well as long as the wood doent catch on fire
I assume you mean graphite pencils?
It looks like someone stabbed in eraser with a paper clip 😂
12v inverters are pretty tame if compared with 51v inverters or similar systems.. i've heard people say that you can damage the capacitors if connected without pre charging for the higher voltage based systems.. it is said that the high inrush currents might damage the capacitors.. I've never tried it. I haven't had the chance to work with these high voltage systems.. 51v dc is scary
I forgot once to use the resistor with a 24v battery and the spark was much bigger. It actually slightly damaged the battery terminal. I can only imagine what a higher voltage would do.
@proficientprepper yeah.. I have learnt from other people's experiences to no play with these higher voltage systems.. 51v is high enough to electrocute. You can feel the current passing.. you have to treat these higher voltage systems as if they're live ac voltages.. you definitely do not want to feel dc currents flowing through your body it is harder to pull back if you do get electrocuted because of the direct current.. ac currents alternates, so they go through zero crossing and current flowing through your body, and muscles are minimized when they go through the zero point.. dc don't have zero crossing moment, so any mistake could very well be your last one.. remember, guys.. safety should be the highest priority, no shortcut is worth your life
Funny stuff. Good info too.
I use a 12 volt test light. When the light goes out, the capacitor is charged. Takes seconds.
I've never had a problem connecting the battery... The connection snaps a little and then moves on
I pre charge mine using a 9 volt battery,
If you hold the lug just barely off the stud for 10 seconds it will pre charge it. No need for a resistor. Use the air as a resistor.
I would not have thought of that. I will try that out.
Add a kill switch in the middle in the first place.
I hook mine up like that all the time I don't use the little resistor thing never have😂
Just make sure the inverter is off before connecting the battery, or have a switch in the cable
That means the negative cable is connected.
You can use a nice halogen bulb as well i precharge all my car amps
I have never heard of a resistor charging anything, but I have heard about DISCHARGING capacitors with resistors. Am I missing something?
The capacitors in the inverter draw in a huge rush of current and causes the spark. The resistor just slows it down with no spark.
it's unnerving but unnecessary for smaller systems.
The resistor will NOT, repeat NOT charge the capacitors. The capacitors retain a charge from the last time connected. The resistor will DISCHARGE the capacitors. But it's no big deal either way.
You've never done it before have you.
@@johnwyman6126 With about 65 years of electronics experience in audio, radio, and just about every type of electronics, including designing amplifiers, back in the day an smart/fast charger for nicads, speed controllers, automated equipment, there is little I have not done before.
@@saxmusicmail You don't connect from positive to negative on the inverter, discharging the caps. You connect one cable first, then before connecting the second cable to the inverter, temporarily use the resistor between the battery cable and the inverter in order to charge the capacitors if the inverter has not been used for a while.
You're misunderstanding what he is talking about. The inverter has a large capacitor in parallel with its 12Vdc input. If you direct the 12Vdc input when the capacitor is discharged, it will momentarily act as a short until the capacitor sufficiently charges. That causes a huge current spike when the inverter is plugged in. That's what causes the the sparks.
Depending on the output impedance of the 12V power source, that current spike can do damage to the connectors where the contract occurs. The current can melt the metal of the contracts causing pitting and/or welding of the contracts.
To prevent that, the video is suggesting pre-charging the capacitor by initially placing a resistor inline with the power connector. Once the capacitor has been pre-charged, it will no longer act as a momentarily short and draw the huge current spike.
Please demonstrate how we should do what you are recommending
I have done this in a couple of videos. Go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video. I do show how to do this. czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
Mine barely sparks certainly is going to blow up. Mine is 1650
Or use an appropriately rated battery switch.
I like the spark lol
I thought that using the resistor releases the energy stored in the capacitors and this energy is shown as a spark. You repeated state that the resistor precharges the capacitors while just the opposite is happening.
My understanding and experience has been that if your inverter has been sitting for a long time not in use, the energy
in the capacitors has dissipated and have no energy left in them. In that case, if you don't use the resistor when you connect the battery, the flow of current from the battery into the capacitors causes the spark. If I disconnect the inverter and leave it sitting for 5 minutes for example. The capacitors are still charged and if you don't use the resistor, there will not be a spark because the capacitors are already charged. At least that is my understanding.
@@proficientprepper My understanding is that the capacitors, when charged (and they hold the current for some time), will instantly release their charge when connecting to the battery. If a resistor is used it releases this energy slow enough to prevent the shock. Once release, or if there's no energy stored in them, there will be no spark.
Rather than buy resistor that you probably only gonna use once a car headlight bulb works just as well you probably have got a spare one.
Brand new 3200w and we Can't get the LED display to turn on after an ark while hooking it up for the first time. Took it apart and tested the fuses & all seemed okay. Any ideas what I could do?
Sorry, no ideas
Ohm out the switch first, if that is okay the most common problems with inverters are the big capacitors that you can check, or the banks of mosfets that would need to be individually checked.
Do that with a 48-volt inverter
Positive goes on before the earth wire,
First issue is: always connect positive post first, then the ground!
Where did you come up with that?
@@johnwyman6126 Just like batty in your car.
@@duckhunter8387 A solar electric system is not an automobile.
Having been a mechanic for most of my life, I can assure you that there is good reason to do things in that order in a normal gas powered vehicle.
Having gone to college for renewable energy and electric vehicle technology, I can assure you that normally there is no good reason to connect a renewable energy system one polarity before the other, Although you should keep sparks away from lead acid batteries.
@@johnwyman6126 Seeing that your Collage Educated, maybe you can help me with this. What is the Ah equivalent of a 140 RC min Deep Cycle Lead Battery. ThxQ
@@duckhunter8387 RC, short for Reserve Capacity, is typically used for marine batteries that, although they say they are deep cycle, are not real deep cycle batteries like golf cart and forklift batteries are. Although they can handle a few more discharges than an SLI or car battery, they still won't last nearly as long as a real deep cycle battery. I can't recall ever seeing an RC listing on a real deep cycle battery.
A battery listed as 140RC means that it will provide 25 Amps for 140 minutes at a specific temperature. I think it's around 75°F if I remember correctly. In order to try to get an amp hour rating, first one needs to convert the minutes to hours, then multiply by Amps, where the sum will be the answer you are looking for in Ah.
Thanks
Connect in series, then short the resistor
Give the link to buy this inverter
amzn.to/3zukjQp
Is it pwm !
A 16 kw inverter opens a time vortex
So, there's a spark. Big deal.
What if you hook the red up 1st, then the neg
My understanding is that the spark is caused by the sudden rush of current to charge the inverter capacitors. I don't think it would matter. But I may have to try that just to satisfy my curiosity.
My convertar it was 240v make smoke and now give 200v
With Large Inverters you will get a much larger spark and can burn out the board. Ask me how I Know.
What happened? I'm assuming nothing good.
What about connecting the positive side first? Like jumping a car
I have been asked this before on another video. I am not an expert on this so don't take my answer as the right way. However, my understanding is that connecting the positive first rule carries over from the use of lead acid batteries in cars. I am not sure it matters in this case. I have done it both ways and I have not noticed a difference. If you or anyone else knows more about this, please leave a comment about this.
@@proficientprepper Hi! Thank you for reaching out to me in response to my question! After receiving your response I decided to contact Redodo directly, they said that they recommend connecting the negative side first they the positive, that it will not harm the battery. … I have a (Redodo 100ah lithium smart battery)
Thanks again!
PS; hope this is helpful!
It won’t harm the battery. What about the inverter?
You never showed how to use that thing. Do we keep one of those in our pockets while terminating?
I have done this in a couple of videos. Go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video. I do show how to do this. czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
Now try on a 10kw 51.2v inverter.
Oh noooo!!!! A spark!!!
good tip
So how do you pre charge the capacitors?
If you want to see how I actually used a resistor to eliminate the spark, go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video - czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
So how do use that resistor? Should have demo that too.
I have done this in a couple of videos. Go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video. I do show how to do this. czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
@@proficientprepper just watched the link video thank you so much, i also subscribed to your channel keep uploading these type of videos it would help a lot a novice like me😅
Thank you for subscribing!
Or a fuse...
Would a 2 ohm resistor be enough to do the job
Never tried so I can't say for sure. I sometimes see a small spark with the 5ohm.
I've seen people use 10ohms 5/10w resistors.. it's only used to precharge the input capacitors so on a 12v system using 10ohm current is limited to 1.2-1.4A which is plenty for the capacitors to charge.. keep it for 5sec - 30sec depending on size of inverter because higher wattage inverter have more capacitors so they might take a while to charge up
Unnecessary
Must the battery be charged using sime wave inverter?
No, the battery is not charged with a sine wave inverter. A solar charge controller or standalone charger is typically used.
Or you can just , shut it off. Connect it and turn it on. I mean common sense.
Can I power up any small 900w compressor
This 2000w inverter should be able to power a 900w compressor.
Any 12v bulb in series will do it
Thanks, I'm going to have to give that a try
@@proficientprepperany incandescent light bulb will do it
How do you precharge the cap with the resister
I have done this in a couple of videos. Go to the 9:20 timestamp in the following video. I do show how to do this. czcams.com/video/lQ_3_9nPYFM/video.html
Damn man, keep the camera still, I just ate, ; )
I look back at that and just shake my head at how terrible the quality of that video was.
@@proficientprepper hey if I did it, people would be losing last week's lunch, ; )
Why do a separate video to cover the subject already being presented? Already found what I wanted to see so no need to look at yours.
Thanks For Commenting!