I don't consider myself to be an "audiophile" even tho I love music and gear I'm into car audio more also even tho I do enjoy messing with home audio, so I'm not the typical audience for this type of channel but I do enjoy it and the tech is universal to all audio in some way or another and I so appreciate paul not acting like an egotistical audio elitist he's a guy I would feel comfortable talking to and not worried about being talked down too. Thanks Paul!
In audiophile terminology a planar speaker is invariably a speaker with a flat sheet of a thin film that is used to generate sound by vibrating. Because of the very light weight and consequently low inertial mass of the membrane it is said to respond to input electrical power very quickly and hence accurately. It is also known that because it cannot move very far it cannot reproduce loud sounds or very low frequency sounds. In arrays like IRS V a large number is used to achieve very high loudness without distortion but like most such membrane speakers their deep bass is missing and so one or more dynamic driver woofers or subwoofers are included either by the manufacturer or by the end user. My own experience with them is limited but I have to say that while they typically have a very clear sound they normally don't have a very accurate sound. Two experiences in the last dozen years or so reconfirmed my opinion. One was the Martini Logan Summit and the other was a monstrous Soundlabs curved speaker. Both were driven by very expensive electronics that were up to the task of driving them. In looking at the measured FR in a review of a similar large Soundlabs curved speaker published by Stereophile Magazine, it confirmed part of what I'd heard from both. There was a falloff of high frequencies and then at the top of their range a sudden peak. I identified five obvious FR distortions on the store's recording of a piano and violin hearing the Martin Logan Summit. Bass for both, the Summit with its own subwoofer and the Soundlabs with an external one was surprisingly disappointing. Considering a pair of Summits list price was $10,000 I found this not acceptable on grounds of lack of bass to be a deal breaker. Could large linear arrays or large surface arrays of dynamic drivers duplicate the desirable characteristics of these types of speakers? Perhaps one day I will build one and find out. I take nothing other people say as gospel until I investigate for myself.
I have owned a pair of smaller SoundLabs since the mid 1980s. They are a different layout from the current SoundLabs in that they have the faceted tweeter/midrange with two larger flat panels on either side of the tweeter. The crossover is 750hz. While they indeed do not produce thunderous bass, I find the bass adequate. Once, I had a salesman at the house demonstrating some cables for me. At one point on "Star of Wonder" there is a low organ note. He started looking around the room. When I asked what he was looking for, he replied "the subwoofer". There was no subwoofer. On the opposite end of my room I have a pair of home built speakers with 15" Altec woofers, Altec compression horn midrange and ribbon tweeters. I built them for my single ended triodes, which will not drive the SoundLabs. They have better bass, better treble and are more dynamic. They even image quite well. But they don't have the delicacy, transparency, or coherence of the electrostatics. I like them both.
I don't know about speakers but in headphones like Audeze they are amazing. The deepest bass I've heard in a headphone. The rest of FR is really good, too.
I still use a pair of Carver AL-III ribbon loudspeakers that I bought in "95". They use the same 48" ribbon that was also used in the $40,000 Genesis speaker. The ribbon material is Kapton. It can be a challenge, but properly set up, listening to them is like a religious experience. They are power hungry, but they are pretty awesome for a speaker that was only $2000.
Any radiating surface that is larger than the wavelength of the highest frequency it emits is going to cause initially beaming, then higher in frequency “lobing” and ultimately at the highest frequencies “comb filtering”. The comb filtering effect can be pleasant enough (used to great affect on guitar amp pedals and the way pickups are combined) but it isn’t something that I enjoy applied to every sound from every recording. If you like this effect so much as to desire it on all your listening sessions then by all means buy a planar speaker otherwise be aware of this coloration. Very few if any studios use planar speakers for this reason (how can you properly adjust the mix if it is being comb filtered by your speakers)
The type of ribbon driver as used by Apogees whereby the ribbon is only suspended at the top and bottom with the magnets at the sides with no obstructions front and rear do infact work in pushpull fashion.You don`t need planar construction to work in pushpull fashion as suggested here.
Loved those old Infinity RS 2.5s despite how ugly, bulky and beat up they were. They only had one working EMIM per side, but otherwise we're fully functional. They didn't sound "special" when paired with my 200watt Rotel amp. But when I moved them to the basement and connected my aging and troubled NAD 7135 to them, WOW! That old "underpowered" amp had difficulty pushing them, but at moderately loud settings, the highs and mids were clear and clean, and the woofer was silky smooth. Too bad they were so large.
Ribbon is attached at two points. Normally top and bottom. No pattern is etched in the material. They will normally run a transformer on the rear of them. A Planar has a film attached on 4 sides and it tensioned like a drum. This fill will have a pattern etched into it to create the voice coil and work with the multiple magnetic circuits.
Recently I bought some planar headphones (Hifiman Sundara) and they surprised me on details, bass precision, soundstage, and overall presentation for a bargain price. I find them beating my Stax SR-009S electrostatic headphones in several areas, especially in the bass, and for most of the music I enjoy, but not when listening to complex classical music, and they are now my default ones at my home office setup.
@Fat Rat Well, when passion is involved and allowed to rule the launch date, then small tweaks can delay projects for a long time. Actually, the best products are launched based on reaching that next level of perfection that just won't happen when a project manager spanks people for being a bit late. I hope that's the essence of their slow launch, and if so, it's great.
Not totally right, Had a magnepan 2 way, think they was called 2.1 in the 80,s. They had ferrite magnetbars glued to a perforatet metal plate sandwished between a wood frame, the membrane suspended and streached to fabrick tuning point for lowest self resonans fs1. No push pull magnet motor there. the same with Apogee they also where made as low sensistivity speakers hard for and amp to drive. New magnet types and push pull has made them more sensitive/more db pr watt compare to a cone Hi fi driver. I use 3 BG neo 10 amt tweeter with Mundorf membrane. a line soruce.push pull magnet system in the 3 neo 10,s each 94 or 96 db pr watt. total sensistivity close to 100 db pr watt each side
Question, if the material is aluminum in the ribbon speaker, if NON ferous, how does that work with magnetic fields? Isn't that why voice coils in some speakers are aluminum as well as dust caps? Just wondering....
The aluminum is the conductor carrying the music signal. The music signal flowing thru the aluminum generates it's own rapidly changing magnetic field. This magnetic field interacts with the permanent magnets of the driver, generating the rapid motion that launches the sound waves. The beauty is in the simplicity. The conductor ... 𝙞𝙨 the driver. The suspension ... 𝙞𝙨 the driver. Hope this helps (Of course everything in audio is a balance of compromises)
Magepan has planar and quasi-ribbon speaker starting at only 650 US Dollars. www.cnet.com/news/are-you-ready-for-bona-fide-high-end-speakers-for-650-a-pair/
@@markwagner1997 that is really good cost wise but it's still expensive and I can get klipsch system for cheaper, but that is a good sign that expensive speakers are getting cheaper and cheap speakers are getting good
@@ThinkingBetter I hope it isn’t an anticlimax when they eventually reveal them, I realise that ‘‘this might not be the best time with Covid, but other speaker manufacturers are carrying on has normal.
PS Audio needs to hit a Home Run out of the Park on their 1st try as the competition is stiff with dozens if not hundreds of speaker designers who have been at the art of speaker design for decades. We'll see if Chris Brunhaver and his team can circle the bases!
Hit 80F in STL the other day. Average high in Nov. mid to high 50s. Cool front coming out of the plains Tuesday, back to the 50s. It was great while it lasted...😎
I don't consider myself to be an "audiophile" even tho I love music and gear I'm into car audio more also even tho I do enjoy messing with home audio, so I'm not the typical audience for this type of channel but I do enjoy it and the tech is universal to all audio in some way or another and I so appreciate paul not acting like an egotistical audio elitist he's a guy I would feel comfortable talking to and not worried about being talked down too. Thanks Paul!
Subscribe and give like, surely we´re going to learn a lot from this great person!
In audiophile terminology a planar speaker is invariably a speaker with a flat sheet of a thin film that is used to generate sound by vibrating. Because of the very light weight and consequently low inertial mass of the membrane it is said to respond to input electrical power very quickly and hence accurately. It is also known that because it cannot move very far it cannot reproduce loud sounds or very low frequency sounds. In arrays like IRS V a large number is used to achieve very high loudness without distortion but like most such membrane speakers their deep bass is missing and so one or more dynamic driver woofers or subwoofers are included either by the manufacturer or by the end user.
My own experience with them is limited but I have to say that while they typically have a very clear sound they normally don't have a very accurate sound. Two experiences in the last dozen years or so reconfirmed my opinion. One was the Martini Logan Summit and the other was a monstrous Soundlabs curved speaker. Both were driven by very expensive electronics that were up to the task of driving them. In looking at the measured FR in a review of a similar large Soundlabs curved speaker published by Stereophile Magazine, it confirmed part of what I'd heard from both. There was a falloff of high frequencies and then at the top of their range a sudden peak. I identified five obvious FR distortions on the store's recording of a piano and violin hearing the Martin Logan Summit. Bass for both, the Summit with its own subwoofer and the Soundlabs with an external one was surprisingly disappointing. Considering a pair of Summits list price was $10,000 I found this not acceptable on grounds of lack of bass to be a deal breaker.
Could large linear arrays or large surface arrays of dynamic drivers duplicate the desirable characteristics of these types of speakers? Perhaps one day I will build one and find out. I take nothing other people say as gospel until I investigate for myself.
I have owned a pair of smaller SoundLabs since the mid 1980s. They are a different layout from the current SoundLabs in that they have the faceted tweeter/midrange with two larger flat panels on either side of the tweeter. The crossover is 750hz. While they indeed do not produce thunderous bass, I find the bass adequate. Once, I had a salesman at the house demonstrating some cables for me. At one point on "Star of Wonder" there is a low organ note. He started looking around the room. When I asked what he was looking for, he replied "the subwoofer". There was no subwoofer.
On the opposite end of my room I have a pair of home built speakers with 15" Altec woofers, Altec compression horn midrange and ribbon tweeters. I built them for my single ended triodes, which will not drive the SoundLabs. They have better bass, better treble and are more dynamic. They even image quite well. But they don't have the delicacy, transparency, or coherence of the electrostatics. I like them both.
@@johnlebeau5471 I'm glad you enjoy them. Happy listening.
I don't know about speakers but in headphones like Audeze they are amazing. The deepest bass I've heard in a headphone. The rest of FR is really good, too.
I still use a pair of Carver AL-III ribbon loudspeakers that I bought in "95". They use the same 48" ribbon that was also used in the $40,000 Genesis speaker. The ribbon material is Kapton. It can be a challenge, but properly set up, listening to them is like a religious experience. They are power hungry, but they are pretty awesome for a speaker that was only $2000.
Any radiating surface that is larger than the wavelength of the highest frequency it emits is going to cause initially beaming, then higher in frequency “lobing” and ultimately at the highest frequencies “comb filtering”. The comb filtering effect can be pleasant enough (used to great affect on guitar amp pedals and the way pickups are combined) but it isn’t something that I enjoy applied to every sound from every recording. If you like this effect so much as to desire it on all your listening sessions then by all means buy a planar speaker otherwise be aware of this coloration. Very few if any studios use planar speakers for this reason (how can you properly adjust the mix if it is being comb filtered by your speakers)
The type of ribbon driver as used by Apogees whereby the ribbon is only suspended at the top and bottom with the magnets at the sides with no obstructions front and rear do infact work in pushpull fashion.You don`t need planar construction to work in pushpull fashion as suggested here.
Loved those old Infinity RS 2.5s despite how ugly, bulky and beat up they were. They only had one working EMIM per side, but otherwise we're fully functional. They didn't sound "special" when paired with my 200watt Rotel amp. But when I moved them to the basement and connected my aging and troubled NAD 7135 to them, WOW! That old "underpowered" amp had difficulty pushing them, but at moderately loud settings, the highs and mids were clear and clean, and the woofer was silky smooth. Too bad they were so large.
Ribbon is attached at two points. Normally top and bottom. No pattern is etched in the material. They will normally run a transformer on the rear of them. A Planar has a film attached on 4 sides and it tensioned like a drum. This fill will have a pattern etched into it to create the voice coil and work with the multiple magnetic circuits.
Isn't the PS Audio team tired of going out and waving to the drone everyday?
@Fat Rat For the fresh air.
and the weather is always nice...
i would wave everyday just to work there
Thank you Jeff, that was a good video.
What's a pirate's favorite loudspeaker type?
Plane-aarrrrr
Recently I bought some planar headphones (Hifiman Sundara) and they surprised me on details, bass precision, soundstage, and overall presentation for a bargain price. I find them beating my Stax SR-009S electrostatic headphones in several areas, especially in the bass, and for most of the music I enjoy, but not when listening to complex classical music, and they are now my default ones at my home office setup.
@Fat Rat Well, when passion is involved and allowed to rule the launch date, then small tweaks can delay projects for a long time. Actually, the best products are launched based on reaching that next level of perfection that just won't happen when a project manager spanks people for being a bit late. I hope that's the essence of their slow launch, and if so, it's great.
So magnepan speakers that only have magnets on one side of the sheet aren’t planar speakers?
I wonder .what would these speakers sound
Not totally right, Had a magnepan 2 way, think they was called 2.1 in the 80,s. They had ferrite magnetbars glued to a perforatet metal plate sandwished between a wood frame, the membrane suspended and streached to fabrick tuning point for lowest self resonans fs1. No push pull magnet motor there. the same with Apogee they also where made as low sensistivity speakers hard for and amp to drive. New magnet types and push pull has made them more sensitive/more db pr watt compare to a cone Hi fi driver. I use 3 BG neo 10 amt tweeter with Mundorf membrane. a line soruce.push pull magnet system in the 3 neo 10,s each 94 or 96 db pr watt. total sensistivity close to 100 db pr watt each side
Do you think it's possible if you can do a video on dc-coupled dacs? Thank you.
Question, if the material is aluminum in the ribbon speaker, if NON ferous, how does that
work with magnetic fields? Isn't that why voice coils in some speakers are aluminum as well as dust caps? Just wondering....
The aluminum is the conductor carrying the music signal.
The music signal flowing thru the aluminum generates it's own rapidly changing magnetic field.
This magnetic field interacts with the permanent magnets of the driver, generating the rapid motion that launches the sound waves.
The beauty is in the simplicity.
The conductor ... 𝙞𝙨 the driver.
The suspension ... 𝙞𝙨 the driver.
Hope this helps
(Of course everything in audio is a balance of compromises)
MVP
1.21 says sorry to the speaker as if its alive.
sir idol
Planar loudspeakers would be so expensive but I bet they sound impeccable just getting planar headphones is a small fortune
Magepan has planar and quasi-ribbon speaker starting at only 650 US Dollars.
www.cnet.com/news/are-you-ready-for-bona-fide-high-end-speakers-for-650-a-pair/
@@markwagner1997 that is really good cost wise but it's still expensive and I can get klipsch system for cheaper, but that is a good sign that expensive speakers are getting cheaper and cheap speakers are getting good
1:20 I don't think you are gonna hurt it fgs it doesn't even fit into the frame lol
question: are square speakers better than round?
yes
Isn’t it time we see PS Audio speakers?
Paul is the speaker speaking too long about the coming speakers...
@@ThinkingBetter I hope it isn’t an anticlimax when they eventually reveal them, I realise that ‘‘this might not be the best time with Covid, but other speaker manufacturers are carrying on has normal.
PS Audio needs to hit a Home Run out of the Park on their 1st try as the competition is stiff with dozens if not hundreds of speaker designers who have been at the art of speaker design for decades. We'll see if Chris Brunhaver and his team can circle the bases!
I gave up on the waiting. They had a complete speaker, that sounded pretty good, two years ago.
with rocky mountain audio fest cancelled or high end audio event, no need to hurry
Shorts, in November, in Colorado?
Yesterday it was in the 70s
My neighbor in Broomfield wore shorts year round. I always thought he was crazy.
Hit 80F in STL the other day. Average high in Nov. mid to high 50s. Cool front coming out of the plains Tuesday, back to the 50s. It was great while it lasted...😎
climate change. people in picture are in year 2120
@@hom2fu yes, and because he is pouting because he lost the election. he is a 5 year old in a mans body. thank god he is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What about comb-filter distortion in the frequency domain due to the length of the driver array?
If properly accounted for in the phase response when designing the crossovers, you can keep them from comb filtering.
Emit's
ALL that explanation, and NO DEMONSTRATION..... why not let us hear them....???
Bloody stupid things those speakers. Why not just get the band in. Bet they sound like shit.
First comment 27 seconds!