Never take the word of an audiophile. Gene of audioholics can explain in 1 minute why bi wiring ia pointless using measurements are evidence, but audiophiles would write out pages of subjective listening results full if hyperbole and exaggeration with absolutely no basis for their results and not only that but their findings would run in strict contradiction with science.
Paul I don’t know what’s more valuable during this pandemic your spot on expertise or your sense of humor; I’m guessing we could use more of both!!!! Stay safe and thanks as always.
I had a similar experience in the 80's while I was in my early teens. My older sister had just bought her house and decided to get a good stereo. So she shelled out about 1000 US $ for a Kenwood/Briklin (I still use some of the components in my basement!). Thing was, as she wanted the speakers placed the cables was to short. So she asked me to by a longer length the next day. As a lazy teen I opted to go to the store opposite our parents flat instead of the 1 km detour to where she had bought her system. This happened to be one of the first true audiophile stores in Sweden. After learning what the cable would be used with they recommended "Monster cable" for, if my memory serves, 5 $ / m (we needed 10 m). That was a tad more then expected... But they lend me a pair of 2 m to test. To both mine and my sisters surprise there was a huge difference, well worth the cost compared to the total cost for the system. Neither of s could understand how the first shop could sell such expensive system crippled by relatively cheap cables (they didn't even offer an upgrade AFAIK and this store was a "better then average").
That was great. I have a pair of speakers now that accept bi-amp/wiring and have always wondered why the heck you'd want to do that. Your video helped answer the question.
Good episode. Back in the 90's i was running a lab in acoustics and psychoacoustic R&D and i remember how in blind tests by just adding a set of electric 12 gauge solid coper wires in parallel to the multi-stranded 14 gauge "monster cable" made a HUGE difference in details and dynamics ( two of the 3 strands were for the return negative signal while the leftover single strand was for the positive post). I always suspected that it just allowed for better coupling to the amp and allowed for a better damping factor... Leave/make the fundamentals as solid and "quick/unfiltered" as possible and let the highs twirl in the multi-stranded/multi-filament wires to breathe easy. The difference was simply not subtle at all. :) Ps. That was a really inexpensive way to improve sound. Sure you can get uber expensive cables, but even with he cost of replacing the cheap 12 gauge wires every now and then ( for anyone afraid of oxydation), it still makes for a solid musical link for dirt cheap. ;) Also, while on the subject of hi-end sound on a budget, dowel markers can do pretty good speaker spikes and cost about 10$ for a set of 8 ( even if i recommend only 3 per speakers to get more stable setup.). Cheers!
It's not to hard to figure it out for yourself: It increases price/cost, and therefore, by the _Fundamental Principle of Audiophilia_ * it's an improvement. * If it costs more, it sounds better.
Thank you for the history lesson. I was trying to figure out if I need to Bi-AMP my new DJ rig, TW Audio T24N speakers and this solved it for me. #Wisdom.
I passively bi-amped my Denon X4400H powering a pair of KEF R900’s utilising the unused channel amplifiers and it did make a slight difference using QED XT cable.. I then added a Stella S300 bi-wired to drive the KEFs and the difference was incredible.. 😀
I use 8ga multi-strand copper on the woofers and mids. Multiple multi-strand 12ga wires on the tweeters. The increase in cone control was extreme. The sound was much, much better. The tweeter sounded as if they came alive. It is awesome!!
that one anecdote does not even address the question. Paul never answered the question and no one noticed. The question is about doubling up speaker wires for those older speakers with two sets of posts WIRED TOGETHER at a single passive crossover. Whether we can hear different wires vs lamp cord was not the question. It’s related but a separate subject. The real answer might be, maybe instead of doubling up 18AWG wire or 16AWG wire, we can just use a single run of 12AWG wire or 14AWG wire and be done with it. Paul should be addressing cable gauge and even OFC options before telling an anecdote about hearing a fancy, exotic wire. Or perhaps explain how high frequencies travel along the outside of a wire. The “why” part about how certain wires were optimized for highs or lows but not both is sorely missing from this. I feel like I just got clickbaited.
I agree. He didn’t answer the question. In fact at the end he talks of different cables for high and low frequencies and thus must be referring to driving speakers actively (i.e. post crossover) The questions was about bi-wiring and with speakers that allow you to send full frequency range signal to each speaker driver (bass & treble) the crossover still does its work but draws the frequencies it needs from a dedicated cable. Even better from a dedicated amplification channel (bi amping) Regardless of what anyone thinks about this (including me) the best way to find out if it can improve the music in your system is to try it and trust your ears.
Andrew Jacob, you are right, the passive crossover does its work and prevents the frequencies that do not apply to the driver from being present in the whole length of the speaker wire. They don't suddenly stop at the capacitor or inductor. Your point on passive bi-amping only serves to demonstrate the point. Each amp is only amplifying the signal for the connected drive unit, not the full frequency range.
Bravo to you sir...the best explanation I've heard for bi-wiring. If the cables used are good at handling bass and treeple, there's no need for bi-wiring.
I did bi-amp so had two pairs of qed silver anniversary cables running to each speaker. I upgraded two a single more pricey amp but linked up the two pairs of cable to the single output for the L&R on the amp. I'm now going to use a two inch length of cable to connect the woofer and tweeter and discard a long run✌️
Paul, I like your videos although I have not so far owned a PS Audio piece of gear. I once wrote in your newsletter that you were born on the very same day as Fred Astaire, and at my age I now think that important things are so few that this date of your birthday is really something to be happy about. Cheers! Max
My first wow moment with speaker cables was when I seen my father arrive with a new roll of Arc Welder cable on the ute, ready for his workshop crew. Why my Electronics Engineering trained brain didn't think of is sooner, but whilst dad's back was turned the roll became a little shorter. The difference in the result was like chalk & cheese. I used that cable for the next 25 years, until I invested in some top Quality Japanese Cables of similar gauge (thickness) about 15 years ago (which I could have purchased at least a couple of good Arc Welders for the same price). Speaker Cable "Quality" is as important as the Amp and the Speakers!!!
Low-frequency drivers generate an electrical signal when in motion. This “back wave“ affects the crossover. Bi-wiring sends this “back wave“ to the amplifier rather than the crossover. This should result in more linear speaker performance, however only your ears can determine if a particular speaker/crossover/amplifier pairing will be improved by bi-wiring.
This is also my experience. I consider bi-wiring mandatory with many speakers e.g. B&W. The strong electromotive force produced by the woofer can cause distortion on the signal that affects mid and upper frequencies. Driving mid-upper frequencies on a separate cable avoid this effect and produce clearer sound, better separation, dynamics and image. The difference can be quite noticeable.
In my opinion bi-wiring kind of works, but I just don't like what it does to the music. 🤷♂️ The treble can sound a bit metallic as well. Probably there are instances where it works well though.
@@fabrisony7729 you do realise you are sending 20hz to 20khz down both the cables from each channel on the amp. The amp does not send lows down one cable and mid highs down another cable off of the same channel left or right.
@@a0r0a7 But frequencies are split at the crossover, and in biwiring the bass driver(s) will draw current from one pair of cables and mid-tweeter will draw current from the other pair. It' s the interaction between the speaker drivers, cable and amplifier.
Ludo, This year I bought a marantz streamer amplifier and a pair Amphion Argon 1speakers. I asked my dealer good speaker cable and to my amazing he gave me a cable for bi-wiring from Audioquest and were made from copper. I had to use 2 cables for the plus and the other 2 for the min. That was new for me and to my amazing this combination works well. I had experience with bi-wiring and with big copper cables but this way I never heard of it. Greetings, Ludo Belgium
I once had a pair of Maudaunt Shorts with an old Luxman amp. I decided one day to try bi-wiring with the same budget cable, high and low, because I had yards of it. Sounded so much better, I couldn't go back... I don't know if it was the bi-wiring or the Doubling of the signal path or the altering of the cable inductance... all I know is it made a profound difference.
I have the Silver Sonic Q10 Cables that I have had for about 10 yrs. The are bi-wire and address the issue you speak of by having 2 different gauges. 14 for highs and 12 for lows As I have the perfect set 10 from Teckton . They use multiples tweeters in a circular array to handle the midrange. So I think I'm in a good place with bi-wire. IMO
My T+A PA3000HV integrated amp supports a bi-wiring mode. From my owners manual "When bi-wiring mode is switched on, speaker outputs A and B are switched together. If bi-wiring mode is switched off, the speaker outputs are switched separately. Bi-Wiring the two pairs of terminals are ideally suited for use in the bi-wiring arrangement in conjunction with high-quality loudspeakers. For bi-wiring mode connect the bass range to output A, and the mid-range / treble range to output B."
Late to the party, but I really appreciated this -- I didn't know earlier how biwiring arose. I've just biwired the Quad 2 speakers in my second system in the study, and they do sound different. Ever so slightly quieter, strangely enough. That's maybe because each speaker cable I have been using (mid-priced AudioQuest FLX/SLiP 14/4) contains 2 pairs of speaker wires, and I had previously twisted each pair together at both ends to make it, effectively, a thicker, 2-wire cable. Anyway, very recently I thought I'd try biwiring, keeping the amplifier end as before, but separating out the four wires per cable at the other. After removing the speaker jumper cables (Tellurium Q blue II's), I plugged in and gave things a good listen. Like I said, it was a touch quieter at any given volume (due to a slightly less boomy bass, perhaps), but also more detailed, refined, and with better soundstage, -- instruments and voices were more solid in their apparent positioning. The bass became appreciably tighter and cleaner, with -- like the mid and treble -- more accurate tonality. It's not an absolutely huge change -- maybe 10 to 15% for the better -- and as I had the spare banana plugs already to hand, it cost me nothing to try it. Maybe there's some 2-wired speaker cable out there that would sound even better if I went back to using my mid-price jumper cables, or bought 2 pairs of the former, but I know from experience that getting a 10-15% change in audio gear sound quality can cost quite a lot more, and I don't think it's worth it, at least for a second system.
Your approach is correct. What you don't want to do is put a lot of money into something that's essentially an experiment. Speaker cables are expensive. You really don't know what the difference is going to be until you try them in your own system. Most experienced audiophiles believe its typically best to get 1 high quality set of speaker cables over spending the same money on 2 pairs. Overall, I think that's solid advice, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with biwiring. Its not something that's going to make or break your system. However, there are exceptions. I use mostly Vandersteen speakers. He was the first one to come up with biwiring and implement in his speaker designs back in the late 70's. On these speakers it makes a very big difference. 2 cheaper runs of cable are much better then 1 higher quality pair. But for most speakers, you'll never hear a difference anywhere near as big as on Vandersteens. My advice would be to get all your main components first, then worry about cables. And whatever you do, never try and fix problems in your system with cables. Fix the problem directly.
I bought into the idea too. But honestly, I couldn't tell any difference. There're quite a few high-end companies that don't even have the option to bi amp or bi wire on their speakers anymore, such as Focal and others. I think it's usually hard for people to admit when they made a mistake after already spending the money. You name it, that goes for a lot of different types of purchases.
I went to a Hifi show at the Heathrow Hotel around 1980. Monitor Audio were demonstrating a braided speaker cable which I believe was made in Japan. The improvement was such that I bought a pair on the spot. Used for a few years but there were alarms ringing about what happened if they were damaged. The braided wires were just coated with varnish for insulation. Since then i have used several types including bi-wired. My ears are no longer good enough to justify spending on possible improvements.
Aloha Paul and all, perhaps there are some modern day exceptions in which cable designers/engineers optimize their premium cables for a) broad (audible) spectrum and, b) low frequency only, and in the process, saving some expense on the low frequency cable. Example would be the current upper-end AQ speaker cables.
Hello Paul, love your videos!! Great knowledge!! Where and when can I purchase your Audiophile Guide book? I am very eager to properly setup my system😊 please keep us posted. Thank you and have a great day.
You didn't even need to travel down to Santa Ana. John Garland had Fulton Gold cables in his shop in San Jose. By all accounts, the first "high end" speaker cable. A few years later Tim Marutani up in Pacific Heights would have Levinson cable which was also Litz wire.
I ended up with bi-amp (Plinius SA250 + VTL MB450) and tri-wire (Wireworld Eclipse Silver) which really got things working well - I think the ones who don't believe in cables and bi-wiring etc are the ones with systems that simply don't reveal the details anyway. With today's high-end systems, good cables make a HUGE difference. We did the secret A/B testing trick with Australian and German CDs - same CD different countries, and it blew people away.
Hi thanks for this it’s very informative. I have just bought a 1977 stereo amplifier. Just trying to make sure I haven’t got my wires crossed (forgive the pun..) provided I use a decent cable I shouldn’t need to be wire then ? I was hoping by bi wiring across speakers a and b I could possibly get a little more power I guess?
back then lamp cord costed more the clear stuff but brown cord was cheaper and sounded just as good as lamp cord and bought the high amp cord my bass was heavy back then you no floor shake.but i was just a kid with a old zenith unit out of a old consol some one thost to the curb and the spakers to i made cabnets for those speakers it worked.
It seems that more & more speaker mfgr's have bi & tri-amp "taps" on their speakers now. This is great if you have your own active crossover "addon" unit . Passive crossover units can distort on peaks. But you'll need to get the crossover points pretty exact for the speakers to sound right. Active-X-over with "small dedicated amps" for the tweets and mid-range is the way to go especially for large floor standing systems.
Running a separate amp per speaker driver and doing the cross-over actively (line level analog of digital in a DSP) can be way better than a passive cross-over when truly optimized. Yes it works!
Yes, that is doing it properly (bi-amping?), bypassing the speakers passive crossover, However most speakers don't give you that option. yes, there are two sets of terminals with links you can remove, however without ripping the back off the box, they don't bypass the crossover (and unless you have an active crossover ahead of the power amps, you should not bypass the speakers crossover)
@@paulstubbs2778 Agree. You don't want both active and passive cross-over to run at the same time. It will definitely just make matter worse. For active two-way cross-over I recommend a miniDSP SHD giving you solid flexibility. But of course it's much more expensive when you end up with an amp per driver.
@@ThinkingBetter So Bi-amping, with an active cross-over before the power amp and no passive crossover on the drivers is pretty straight forward stuff....in a two way system. But what happens when you really want a 3-way system, but only bi-amping? You're still gonna need a passive crossover for the mid-range and tweeter. I understand the benefits of active crossovers, especially when done in the digital world over passive crossovers that are subject to so many factors, but is this the main differentating factor for bi-amping, or is the fact that you actually have separate output stages driving drivers directly part of that difference. I mean, i know that IS part of the difference in bi-amping compared to not doing it, just how much of having separate output stages factors into the over all benefit compared the actual active, pre-amp crossover.
Talking of speaker cables (!!), what are the best cable terminals - spade ends or 'banana' plugs (each crimped onto an appropriate length of cable), or simply stripped conductor screwed down directly onto the amp and speaker binding posts?
Wow this is the first time I heard an explanation that makes actual sense! But multiple amps is surely another thing? You mentioned somewhere else you have 12 amps for the just the woofers of your IRSV. I guess at least 4 more more treble and midrange?
About three years ago, I bought an old EQ on Ebay or something and it came with two 25' beautiful green and gold flat speaker cables in the box. I talked to the seller and he assumed they went with the EQ, so he sent them along. Took a long time to figure out what they were, but finally found out they were Polk Cobra cables. Far too long for me and I dared not try to shorten them. I hear they have a toxic coating if heated up and there are about a dozen wires braided together. I spooled them up nicely and put them in a display box and it hangs on my wall.
So if today its all about cables and they have improved dramatically what's a good value speaker cable that will be an improvement over my 20 year old 16 gauge monster cables. Saying it another way - how much do you have to spend to get a noticeable change in sound?
Not necessary but if you are using standard wire, just a basic wire, would it make a difference? It seems that two basic strands of wires would be beneficial and less than some over marketed “full range” wire. Just curious as well because you see so many speakers set up for bi wire options.
I run Kimber 8TC which is easy to split in to bass and treble on one end. For the cost of an extra pair of banana plugs I get bi wire, so why the hell not. Does it sound better? Can not say for sure. At least I can get rid of the stupid metal jumpers my speakers came with.
There is more to bi wiring then just finding the best sounding cables for the high frequency’s and another for midrange and bass frequency’s. It also feeding a separate cable to each section of the speaker ( also eliminating the junk speaker jumpers needed to connect the two ) which in itself improves the sound. Yes it is subtle but in a well designed high end system it is clearly a audible difference. Soundstage is wider and deeper and simply more open.
Does not the same signal pass from the amp through those wires to the speaker or do you have a cross over in your amp. All the filtering happens in the speaker box. Yes you can add more RF and noise to the system but that's not considered a benefit.
Not connected with the bi-wiring but can't believe what I see on your shelf a white solder wire roll look exactly the same as mine was back in 1988....92 here in Europe. If remember right at the same time I first heard about bi- wiring too.
This depends on what's going on inside your amp really, my Arcam has two sets of outputs...internally they go off to different output stages...my Pioneer has two sets of outputs, internally they run to a switched block which has only a single feed....so it would be fairly pointless
Good afternoon. I'm going to connect my Rotel 05 to the B&W 705 speakers to Bi wiring. I want to connect in A+B mode. I have a question about where to connect the tweeter to terminal A or B. The fact is that according to the circuit in the amplifier, the signal to terminals B passes through coils L601 + TRL332. And the signal goes to terminal A without these coils. Will there be a weakening of the tweeter signal if I connect it to terminal B?
Is there any benefit at all to running two sets of cables to the high and low frequencies of the speaker in bi wiring formation if my integrated amp has speaker A and speaker B output (so speaker A feeds high and speaker B feeds low). I have had completely contradictory advice on this from two separate dealers. For clarity - It is not an AV amp with specific bi amp terminals but a regular (good quality and high power) integrated amp with two sets of speaker outputs. Many thanks in advance. Ali (UK)
When this question came to me. I always asked, was the budget the same. For the same money, buy a better of single set of amp or cables will make better sound Than a half budget for each set.
is that because back in the day the sound was 'analog' as opposed to digital? needing to have wire with different thicknesses? I still have a partial roll of 'lamp cord' from Radio Shack from the mid `70s good to know it is relevant now with digital transmissions I guess.
CORRECTION Paul!!! Neal Sinclair's store was called "Absolute Audio". And he also had another store in Woodland Hills Ca, on Ventura Bl, which I worked at.
Just not true. The science community is divided on many things (climate change, Covid 19) and since most cable companies and all speaker companies employ engineers, it stands to reason there is divisiveness with regards to bi-wiring, unless of course you think engineers aren't scientific.
I still recall my first cable test, mid 90's: lamp cord, cheap but thick car audio wires, and a set of Tara Labs. Yes, the difference even on a cheap stereo setup was amazing.
I found out that speaker cables do make a difference I had audio quest x2 cables then I bought elacs sensible speaker cables wow what a difference in sound the elac cable brought out a clear sound highs and lows of my debuts b6 2.0
How about bi-amping where you use an active crossover before the amps, and and have the amps directly feed the drivers - as in no speaker-side crossovers?
You are not supposed to use different cables when your biwire. They need to be identical. When you use different cables, that's just a band aid fix you need to do because you didn't match your components properly. In my system, biwiring makes a huge difference. The equivalent to upgrading an active component. But you have to try it first. Depending on your equipment, it doesn't always make that kind of difference.
I have 2 klipsch rp8000f ii front left and right tower speakers with an onkyo tx-nr6100 7.2 channel receiver. Today i decided to bi amp the speakers. Everything improved the highs mids and definitely the bass, but there is one problem... some sounds have moved to opposite direction i can notice this in certain songs ive always listened to and especially in games. When i test the left and right channels on the setup i can hear both at the same time instead of hearing just one speaker when switching between left and right. I can also tell it sounds more to the left when it should be only the right speaker making noise and vice versa. Is this a normal thing when bi amping?? Or is something wrong? I double checked all the connections and they are done correctly. I kind of regret bi amping them now because its a pain in the butt to get behind the system and put the jumpers back on... games are useless to me now since the sound is on opposite directions.
I believe it's more about active vs passive crossovers. If you bi wire you can generate multiple distinct amps for the different frequency ranges instead of taking the full spectrum to the speaker and having to then filter it back down to each driver.
I've always noticed a difference in sound quality depending on the gauge of the speaker wire. The thicker the cable the more bass and heft to the sound. I think if you go 8 to 12 gauge in your setup then why the need to bi wire? IMO, the gear you use makes the biggest difference in sound followed by vibration isolation. Thirdly, is the cabling throughout your system.
From the Vandersteen Model 7 manual: The Model Sevens are optimized for true bi-wiring using two separate speaker cables to connect each speaker to the amplifier. The speaker’s internal crossover presents different electrical characteristics to each cable so that one cable carries the signal going to the woofers while the other cable carries the signal going to the midrange and tweeter. The improvements offered by biwiring versus a conventional single run of cable are substantial. Often, a bi-wire set of moderately priced cables will sound better than a single run of far more expensive cables. Our research revealed that much of bi-wiring’s benefit comes from the physical separation of the low frequency cable from the midrange/tweeter cable. Internal bi-wire cables that combine all the wires together in one sheath do not offer all the advantages of true bi-wiring
Yeah everybody says on the double binding post on the back of the tower speakers you have double binding post. Here's my question on it if you went the other way and went by amping like maybe if you had dual or triple 10 inch or 12 inch woofers in the cabinets which is rare speakers nowadays would that increase the wattage and frequency put the high note to the lower power amp in the low note of the base to the higher speaker base capability if I'm saying this right thank you ask Paul thank you.
Paul you mentioned bi amping at the end of the video. Steve Guttenberg said in a recent video of his it makes a big difference. I'm just wondering who's ears art up for the task.
That explanation IMO is quite a bit simplistic. Looking at the electrical network, bi-wiring offers better isolation of low and high frequency branches, as any voltage induced in a bass coil by returning to centre position is shortened at the amp’s low output resistance rather than directly finding its way to high frequency section of the crossover (where admittedly only frequencies in crossover region pass through). Further the hi-frq branch of the LS cables doesn’t see low freq current and in turn magnetic field interaction and looking at more expensive cables and their structure, this seems to be a major topic. The argument against biwiring is of course cost, but adding a second pair as a system upgrade at a later stage, is worth a trial, ideally against an LS cable twice the price. High quality plugs and connection to cable provided, I see a good chance for the bi-wire to get more out of the system. PS: q-acoustics have done measurements on the topic and could prove the superior SQ brought by biwiring. You’ll find that on their website.
@@salvadorrodenas3071 unless necessary The shorter the better for better soundstage for me 8 ft is good I'm listening to Sting cd on my klipsch horn speakers right now take care brother
@@OscarSanchez-tk3hx me too! My listening room is also my bedroom! Many nights I caught sleep while my stereo is playing ha ha ha. Take care of you too😃
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room Can any of you audiophiles help me? I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase). 2 questions. Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok? And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc. I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
Yes, you can group multiple co-ganged receptacles together on a circuit, just depends on application. Thing is, you never know what the future holds... it always pays to approach this in a manner that makes future changes easier. 10awg vs. 12awg depends on the load amperage and length back to the panel. In my opinion, I'd utilize 10awg, that way voltage drop is of no concern, regardless of load (high power amplification etc). I'd take all hots, neutrals, and grounds all the way home dedicated style, to facilitate a star grounding scenario. Also, this allows potential, future unforseen load changes to be handled with ease. It's so much easier to implement these approaches now, while the walls are open... rather than down the road.
Every audio enthusiast should be smart enough to know that bi-wiring is a completely ridiculous concept if the gauge and makeup of the wire and the connection points are sufficient for the wire lengths and power levels and frequencies involved. Anyone noticing a “significant” improvement either had a setup problem before bi-wiring, such as insufficient wire gauge for one, or has fell victim to psychoacoustic justification. it’s time people wake up and smell reality .. even if you could theoretically say that there was a difference, if it’s going to be humanly imperceptible, it makes no sense to care. Think about it! OR better yet, just enjoy the music !!
What is the peak current your amplifier can send through the cables to the speakers? My power amp peaks at 60A per channel. That's electric welding territory. What cables do you need to NOT get in the way of transducing that? Bi-wiring is a way to get more cable diameter to facilitate more Ampères. Bi-wiring is also a way to bi-amp. When a driver in a speaker is moving, it is an electric motor, but it also is a generator and this needs to be damped. Bi-amping (assuming identical amps) doubles the damping and isolates/focuses the damping to driver sections in the speaker cabinet. And bi-amping can be done vertically or horizontally, which, still talking theory from the armchair, will give different results depending on the music and where in the amplifier the power reserve is: centrally for both channels, or distributed throughout the design (the former cheaper, the latter faster - the former likely better in vertical bi-amping). In short: bi-posting is not necessarily done to bi-wire but to bi-amp instead.
Divided? Get two audiophiles in a room and you will get three opinions
Never take the word of an audiophile. Gene of audioholics can explain in 1 minute why bi wiring ia pointless using measurements are evidence, but audiophiles would write out pages of subjective listening results full if hyperbole and exaggeration with absolutely no basis for their results and not only that but their findings would run in strict contradiction with science.
@@dalechalfont112 I am not a scientist, I am an audiophile :)
That would be a ‘tri-wired’ conversation.
🤣🤣🤣🤗🤗🤗
sir, what is the best subwoofer box design for 12 inches.and can create low frequency..tnx and keep safe.
Paul I don’t know what’s more valuable during this pandemic your spot on expertise or your sense of humor; I’m guessing we could use more of both!!!! Stay safe and thanks as always.
Well said!
Well said again, 👍
I had a similar experience in the 80's while I was in my early teens. My older sister had just bought her house and decided to get a good stereo. So she shelled out about 1000 US $ for a Kenwood/Briklin (I still use some of the components in my basement!). Thing was, as she wanted the speakers placed the cables was to short. So she asked me to by a longer length the next day. As a lazy teen I opted to go to the store opposite our parents flat instead of the 1 km detour to where she had bought her system. This happened to be one of the first true audiophile stores in Sweden. After learning what the cable would be used with they recommended "Monster cable" for, if my memory serves, 5 $ / m (we needed 10 m). That was a tad more then expected... But they lend me a pair of 2 m to test. To both mine and my sisters surprise there was a huge difference, well worth the cost compared to the total cost for the system. Neither of s could understand how the first shop could sell such expensive system crippled by relatively cheap cables (they didn't even offer an upgrade AFAIK and this store was a "better then average").
That was great. I have a pair of speakers now that accept bi-amp/wiring and have always wondered why the heck you'd want to do that. Your video helped answer the question.
Good episode.
Back in the 90's i was running a lab in acoustics and psychoacoustic R&D and i remember how in blind tests by just adding a set of electric 12 gauge solid coper wires in parallel to the multi-stranded 14 gauge "monster cable" made a HUGE difference in details and dynamics ( two of the 3 strands were for the return negative signal while the leftover single strand was for the positive post). I always suspected that it just allowed for better coupling to the amp and allowed for a better damping factor... Leave/make the fundamentals as solid and "quick/unfiltered" as possible and let the highs twirl in the multi-stranded/multi-filament wires to breathe easy.
The difference was simply not subtle at all. :)
Ps. That was a really inexpensive way to improve sound. Sure you can get uber expensive cables, but even with he cost of replacing the cheap 12 gauge wires every now and then ( for anyone afraid of oxydation), it still makes for a solid musical link for dirt cheap. ;)
Also, while on the subject of hi-end sound on a budget, dowel markers can do pretty good speaker spikes and cost about 10$ for a set of 8 ( even if i recommend only 3 per speakers to get more stable setup.).
Cheers!
It's not to hard to figure it out for yourself: It increases price/cost, and therefore, by the _Fundamental Principle of Audiophilia_ * it's an improvement.
* If it costs more, it sounds better.
And break-in always makes a speaker sound better. It's a miracle!
people who never try always seem to know everything about cables lol
Thank you for the history lesson. I was trying to figure out if I need to Bi-AMP my new DJ rig, TW Audio T24N speakers and this solved it for me. #Wisdom.
Gauge of wires improves with biwire goals most often, this is good
Half way through the video, I was about to pull the trigger on bi-wiring cables but thankfully I watched till the end. :)
I passively bi-amped my Denon X4400H powering a pair of KEF R900’s utilising the unused channel amplifiers and it did make a slight difference using QED XT cable..
I then added a Stella S300 bi-wired to drive the KEFs and the difference was incredible.. 😀
I use 8ga multi-strand copper on the woofers and mids. Multiple multi-strand 12ga wires on the tweeters. The increase in cone control was extreme. The sound was much, much better. The tweeter sounded as if they came alive. It is awesome!!
Thank you for this great explanation. I appreciate it. I. Am trying to learn more about cables.
that one anecdote does not even address the question. Paul never answered the question and no one noticed. The question is about doubling up speaker wires for those older speakers with two sets of posts WIRED TOGETHER at a single passive crossover. Whether we can hear different wires vs lamp cord was not the question. It’s related but a separate subject. The real answer might be, maybe instead of doubling up 18AWG wire or 16AWG wire, we can just use a single run of 12AWG wire or 14AWG wire and be done with it. Paul should be addressing cable gauge and even OFC options before telling an anecdote about hearing a fancy, exotic wire. Or perhaps explain how high frequencies travel along the outside of a wire. The “why” part about how certain wires were optimized for highs or lows but not both is sorely missing from this. I feel like I just got clickbaited.
I agree. He didn’t answer the question. In fact at the end he talks of different cables for high and low frequencies and thus must be referring to driving speakers actively (i.e. post crossover)
The questions was about bi-wiring and with speakers that allow you to send full frequency range signal to each speaker driver (bass & treble) the crossover still does its work but draws the frequencies it needs from a dedicated cable. Even better from a dedicated amplification channel (bi amping)
Regardless of what anyone thinks about this (including me) the best way to find out if it can improve the music in your system is to try it and trust your ears.
Andrew Jacob, you are right, the passive crossover does its work and prevents the frequencies that do not apply to the driver from being present in the whole length of the speaker wire. They don't suddenly stop at the capacitor or inductor. Your point on passive bi-amping only serves to demonstrate the point. Each amp is only amplifying the signal for the connected drive unit, not the full frequency range.
In the 90's it made a big difference on my Apogee Stages, Adcom, PS Audio 5.
Spectacular explanation. Love your channel.
Thanks Paul,finally a realistic point of view.
I love your posts and look forward to them each day. Q: when will "The Audiophile's Guide" and the "Reference Disc" be available????
Bravo to you sir...the best explanation I've heard for bi-wiring. If the cables used are good at handling bass and treeple, there's no need for bi-wiring.
Thank you! That was very educational.
I did bi-amp so had two pairs of qed silver anniversary cables running to each speaker.
I upgraded two a single more pricey amp but linked up the two pairs of cable to the single output for the L&R on the amp.
I'm now going to use a two inch length of cable to connect the woofer and tweeter and discard a long run✌️
Paul, I like your videos although I have not so far owned a PS Audio piece of gear. I once wrote in your newsletter that you were born on the very same day as Fred Astaire, and at my age I now think that important things are so few that this date of your birthday is really something to be happy about. Cheers! Max
My first wow moment with speaker cables was when I seen my father arrive with a new roll of Arc Welder cable on the ute, ready for his workshop crew. Why my Electronics Engineering trained brain didn't think of is sooner, but whilst dad's back was turned the roll became a little shorter.
The difference in the result was like chalk & cheese. I used that cable for the next 25 years, until I invested in some top Quality Japanese Cables of similar gauge (thickness) about 15 years ago (which I could have purchased at least a couple of good Arc Welders for the same price).
Speaker Cable "Quality" is as important as the Amp and the Speakers!!!
Interesting point of view about biwiring
Low-frequency drivers generate an electrical signal when in motion. This “back wave“ affects the crossover. Bi-wiring sends this “back wave“ to the amplifier rather than the crossover. This should result in more linear speaker performance, however only your ears can determine if a particular speaker/crossover/amplifier pairing will be improved by bi-wiring.
This is also my experience. I consider bi-wiring mandatory with many speakers e.g. B&W. The strong electromotive force produced by the woofer can cause distortion on the signal that affects mid and upper frequencies. Driving mid-upper frequencies on a separate cable avoid this effect and produce clearer sound, better separation, dynamics and image. The difference can be quite noticeable.
It's called back EMF, or Electromotive Force...
In my opinion bi-wiring kind of works, but I just don't like what it does to the music. 🤷♂️ The treble can sound a bit metallic as well.
Probably there are instances where it works well though.
@@fabrisony7729 you do realise you are sending 20hz to 20khz down both the cables from each channel on the amp. The amp does not send lows down one cable and mid highs down another cable off of the same channel left or right.
@@a0r0a7 But frequencies are split at the crossover, and in biwiring the bass driver(s) will draw current from one pair of cables and mid-tweeter will draw current from the other pair. It' s the interaction between the speaker drivers, cable and amplifier.
Fascinating historical background. Thanks.
Ludo,
This year I bought a marantz streamer amplifier and a pair Amphion Argon 1speakers. I asked my dealer good speaker cable and to my amazing he gave me a cable for bi-wiring from Audioquest and were made from copper. I had to use 2 cables for the plus and the other 2 for the min. That was new for me and to my amazing this combination works well. I had experience with bi-wiring and with big copper cables but this way I never heard of it.
Greetings,
Ludo Belgium
I once had a pair of Maudaunt Shorts with an old Luxman amp. I decided one day to try bi-wiring with the same budget cable, high and low, because I had yards of it. Sounded so much better, I couldn't go back... I don't know if it was the bi-wiring or the Doubling of the signal path or the altering of the cable inductance... all I know is it made a profound difference.
Mordant Short
@@ralex3697Mordaunt Short
Paul , you forgot to mention that Mike Moffat is one of the founders (with Jason Stoddard) of SCHIIT Audio.
I dont think he forgot .. Just didn't want to mention it..
@@moon-light1354 Yep, that's what i thought too.
@Vincent Pedalino - I highly agree!👍
Thanks for the history lesson!!!!!
I loved it!!!
I have the Silver Sonic Q10 Cables that I have had for about 10 yrs. The are bi-wire and address the issue you speak of by having 2 different gauges. 14 for highs and 12 for lows
As I have the perfect set 10 from Teckton . They use multiples tweeters in a circular array to handle the midrange. So I think I'm in a good place with bi-wire. IMO
My T+A PA3000HV integrated amp supports a bi-wiring mode. From my owners manual "When bi-wiring mode is switched on, speaker outputs A and B are switched together. If bi-wiring mode is switched off, the speaker outputs are switched separately. Bi-Wiring the two pairs of terminals are ideally suited for use in the bi-wiring arrangement in conjunction with high-quality loudspeakers. For bi-wiring mode connect the
bass range to output A, and the mid-range / treble range to output B."
That is Bi-amping, when multiple channels of amplification are used to power a single speaker.
Late to the party, but I really appreciated this -- I didn't know earlier how biwiring arose. I've just biwired the Quad 2 speakers in my second system in the study, and they do sound different. Ever so slightly quieter, strangely enough. That's maybe because each speaker cable I have been using (mid-priced AudioQuest FLX/SLiP 14/4) contains 2 pairs of speaker wires, and I had previously twisted each pair together at both ends to make it, effectively, a thicker, 2-wire cable.
Anyway, very recently I thought I'd try biwiring, keeping the amplifier end as before, but separating out the four wires per cable at the other. After removing the speaker jumper cables (Tellurium Q blue II's), I plugged in and gave things a good listen. Like I said, it was a touch quieter at any given volume (due to a slightly less boomy bass, perhaps), but also more detailed, refined, and with better soundstage, -- instruments and voices were more solid in their apparent positioning. The bass became appreciably tighter and cleaner, with -- like the mid and treble -- more accurate tonality.
It's not an absolutely huge change -- maybe 10 to 15% for the better -- and as I had the spare banana plugs already to hand, it cost me nothing to try it. Maybe there's some 2-wired speaker cable out there that would sound even better if I went back to using my mid-price jumper cables, or bought 2 pairs of the former, but I know from experience that getting a 10-15% change in audio gear sound quality can cost quite a lot more, and I don't think it's worth it, at least for a second system.
Your approach is correct. What you don't want to do is put a lot of money into something that's essentially an experiment. Speaker cables are expensive. You really don't know what the difference is going to be until you try them in your own system. Most experienced audiophiles believe its typically best to get 1 high quality set of speaker cables over spending the same money on 2 pairs. Overall, I think that's solid advice, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with biwiring. Its not something that's going to make or break your system. However, there are exceptions. I use mostly Vandersteen speakers. He was the first one to come up with biwiring and implement in his speaker designs back in the late 70's. On these speakers it makes a very big difference. 2 cheaper runs of cable are much better then 1 higher quality pair. But for most speakers, you'll never hear a difference anywhere near as big as on Vandersteens. My advice would be to get all your main components first, then worry about cables. And whatever you do, never try and fix problems in your system with cables. Fix the problem directly.
I bought into the idea too. But honestly, I couldn't tell any difference. There're quite a few high-end companies that don't even have the option to bi amp or bi wire on their speakers anymore, such as Focal and others. I think it's usually hard for people to admit when they made a mistake after already spending the money. You name it, that goes for a lot of different types of purchases.
Dynaudio is another one..
Omg, goes on and on. I wanna know. Hope u explain bi wiring really good
I went to a Hifi show at the Heathrow Hotel around 1980. Monitor Audio were demonstrating a braided speaker cable which I believe was made in Japan. The improvement was such that I bought a pair on the spot. Used for a few years but there were alarms ringing about what happened if they were damaged. The braided wires were just coated with varnish for insulation. Since then i have used several types including bi-wired. My ears are no longer good enough to justify spending on possible improvements.
Thank you very much sir very enlightening
thanks,,,,Paul...great great learning video s ,,super nive..greers from the Netherlands
Thanks man. You are awesome:)
Aloha Paul and all, perhaps there are some modern day exceptions in which cable designers/engineers optimize their premium cables for a) broad (audible) spectrum and, b) low frequency only, and in the process, saving some expense on the low frequency cable. Example would be the current upper-end AQ speaker cables.
Hello Paul, love your videos!! Great knowledge!! Where and when can I purchase your Audiophile Guide book? I am very eager to properly setup my system😊 please keep us posted. Thank you and have a great day.
Thank you for the explanation. You saved me from bi-wiring my new speakers.
Thank you, Paul. You just saved me some $. Cheers
You didn't even need to travel down to Santa Ana. John Garland had Fulton Gold cables in his shop in San Jose. By all accounts, the first "high end" speaker cable. A few years later Tim Marutani up in Pacific Heights would have Levinson cable which was also Litz wire.
I ended up with bi-amp (Plinius SA250 + VTL MB450) and tri-wire (Wireworld Eclipse Silver) which really got things working well - I think the ones who don't believe in cables and bi-wiring etc are the ones with systems that simply don't reveal the details anyway. With today's high-end systems, good cables make a HUGE difference. We did the secret A/B testing trick with Australian and German CDs - same CD different countries, and it blew people away.
wow that totally makes sense. I always wondered why bi-wiring was even a thing.
Love your stories
Hi thanks for this it’s very informative. I have just bought a 1977 stereo amplifier. Just trying to make sure I haven’t got my wires crossed (forgive the pun..) provided I use a decent cable I shouldn’t need to be wire then ? I was hoping by bi wiring across speakers a and b I could possibly get a little more power I guess?
back then lamp cord costed more the clear stuff but brown cord was cheaper and sounded just as good as lamp cord and bought the high amp cord my bass was heavy back then you no floor shake.but i was just a kid with a old zenith unit out of a old consol some one thost to the curb and the spakers to i made cabnets for those speakers it worked.
It seems that more & more speaker mfgr's have bi & tri-amp "taps" on their speakers now. This is great if you have your own active crossover "addon" unit . Passive crossover units can distort on peaks. But you'll need to get the crossover points pretty exact for the speakers to sound right. Active-X-over with "small dedicated amps" for the tweets and mid-range is the way to go especially for large floor standing systems.
Running a separate amp per speaker driver and doing the cross-over actively (line level analog of digital in a DSP) can be way better than a passive cross-over when truly optimized. Yes it works!
This is different to bi-wiring, it is much more noticeable/better than bi-wiring and its name is bi-amping.
@@lio1234234 Yes, I know, we agree, much better.
Yes, that is doing it properly (bi-amping?), bypassing the speakers passive crossover, However most speakers don't give you that option. yes, there are two sets of terminals with links you can remove, however without ripping the back off the box, they don't bypass the crossover (and unless you have an active crossover ahead of the power amps, you should not bypass the speakers crossover)
@@paulstubbs2778 Agree. You don't want both active and passive cross-over to run at the same time. It will definitely just make matter worse. For active two-way cross-over I recommend a miniDSP SHD giving you solid flexibility. But of course it's much more expensive when you end up with an amp per driver.
@@ThinkingBetter So Bi-amping, with an active cross-over before the power amp and no passive crossover on the drivers is pretty straight forward stuff....in a two way system. But what happens when you really want a 3-way system, but only bi-amping? You're still gonna need a passive crossover for the mid-range and tweeter.
I understand the benefits of active crossovers, especially when done in the digital world over passive crossovers that are subject to so many factors, but is this the main differentating factor for bi-amping, or is the fact that you actually have separate output stages driving drivers directly part of that difference. I mean, i know that IS part of the difference in bi-amping compared to not doing it, just how much of having separate output stages factors into the over all benefit compared the actual active, pre-amp crossover.
I would like a technical presentation on how a cable would influence tweeter and bass differently with measurements please?
Thanks Paul, always appreciate your willingness to share. Go Hawks !!
🎩✌️🐀💿
It works. I have a pair of JBL 590 bi-amp speakers and it sounds much better bi-amped.
Bi-amping is different than bi-wiring. Bi-amping can work pretty well. Bi-wiring is just a waste of wire.
@@Mooseman327 thanks you are correct. Thanks for the info.
How do you go about balancing the drivers?
Relics of the past.
Well said!
Instresting video I use canare speaker cable on my system
Talking of speaker cables (!!), what are the best cable terminals - spade ends or 'banana' plugs (each crimped onto an appropriate length of cable), or simply stripped conductor screwed down directly onto the amp and speaker binding posts?
Wow this is the first time I heard an explanation that makes actual sense! But multiple amps is surely another thing? You mentioned somewhere else you have 12 amps for the just the woofers of your IRSV. I guess at least 4 more more treble and midrange?
About three years ago, I bought an old EQ on Ebay or something and it came with two 25' beautiful green and gold flat speaker cables in the box. I talked to the seller and he assumed they went with the EQ, so he sent them along. Took a long time to figure out what they were, but finally found out they were Polk Cobra cables. Far too long for me and I dared not try to shorten them. I hear they have a toxic coating if heated up and there are about a dozen wires braided together. I spooled them up nicely and put them in a display box and it hangs on my wall.
So if today its all about cables and they have improved dramatically what's a good value speaker cable that will be an improvement over my 20 year old 16 gauge monster cables. Saying it another way - how much do you have to spend to get a noticeable change in sound?
Bi-Amping sounds definitely better, but bi-wiring I'm with you.
Bi-wiring makes ZERO sense to me, but I can see how bi-amping makes a meaningful difference.
1977 I ran triple 16 ga wire, better bass. It has come a long way since.
Not necessary but if you are using standard wire, just a basic wire, would it make a difference? It seems that two basic strands of wires would be beneficial and less than some over marketed “full range” wire. Just curious as well because you see so many speakers set up for bi wire options.
I run Kimber 8TC which is easy to split in to bass and treble on one end. For the cost of an extra pair of banana plugs I get bi wire, so why the hell not. Does it sound better? Can not say for sure. At least I can get rid of the stupid metal jumpers my speakers came with.
I do the same with 8vs.i think its cleaner.supper small difference.🤔mybe.🤔
There is more to bi wiring then just finding the best sounding cables for the high frequency’s and another for midrange and bass frequency’s. It also feeding a separate cable to each section of the speaker ( also eliminating the junk speaker jumpers needed to connect the two ) which in itself improves the sound. Yes it is subtle but in a well designed high end system it is clearly a audible difference. Soundstage is wider and deeper and simply more open.
I have always felt it makes speakers brighter.
Does not the same signal pass from the amp through those wires to the speaker or do you have a cross over in your amp. All the filtering happens in the speaker box. Yes you can add more RF and noise to the system but that's not considered a benefit.
Not connected with the bi-wiring but can't believe what I see on your shelf a white solder wire roll look exactly the same as mine was back in 1988....92 here in Europe.
If remember right at the same time I first heard about bi- wiring too.
This depends on what's going on inside your amp really, my Arcam has two sets of outputs...internally they go off to different output stages...my Pioneer has two sets of outputs, internally they run to a switched block which has only a single feed....so it would be fairly pointless
I just did it with 12 gauge wires for my poke 70 monitor 2 big difference
Biwiring dosn’t make sense if the two wires are connected (short circuted) on the same conntor on the amp. Right?
Good afternoon. I'm going to connect my Rotel 05 to the B&W 705 speakers to Bi wiring. I want to connect in A+B mode. I have a question about where to connect the tweeter to terminal A or B. The fact is that according to the circuit in the amplifier, the signal to terminals B passes through coils L601 + TRL332. And the signal goes to terminal A without these coils. Will there be a weakening of the tweeter signal if I connect it to terminal B?
Is there any benefit at all to running two sets of cables to the high and low frequencies of the speaker in bi wiring formation if my integrated amp has speaker A and speaker B output (so speaker A feeds high and speaker B feeds low). I have had completely contradictory advice on this from two separate dealers.
For clarity - It is not an AV amp with specific bi amp terminals but a regular (good quality and high power) integrated amp with two sets of speaker outputs.
Many thanks in advance.
Ali (UK)
Monster Cable is the first that I remember...
When this question came to me. I always asked, was the budget the same.
For the same money, buy a better of single set of amp or cables will make better sound
Than a half budget for each set.
Bluejeans cables are hight quality and affordable
is that because back in the day the sound was 'analog' as opposed to digital? needing to have wire with different thicknesses? I still have a partial roll of 'lamp cord' from Radio Shack from the mid `70s good to know it is relevant now with digital transmissions I guess.
CORRECTION Paul!!!
Neal Sinclair's store was called "Absolute Audio".
And he also had another store in Woodland Hills Ca, on Ventura Bl, which I worked at.
You're right it divides the audiophile community....
but NOT the science community, peace.
Just not true. The science community is divided on many things (climate change, Covid 19) and since most cable companies and all speaker companies employ engineers, it stands to reason there is divisiveness with regards to bi-wiring, unless of course you think engineers aren't scientific.
lol
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt
Oh ok, we'll change the definition of science...np
Now draw a schematic of a bi-wired speaker and explain it to me ??? peace
@@poserwanabe lol @schematic of bi-wire.
@@indyola1 exactly !!! if you draw it and look at it you just laugh 😆🤣😂
need to find the correct way and ....do it and see...well...Bi Wiring worked for me....
I still recall my first cable test, mid 90's: lamp cord, cheap but thick car audio wires, and a set of Tara Labs. Yes, the difference even on a cheap stereo setup was amazing.
Could I put my highs on speaker A and the lows on B from the same receiver I have a NAD T773
Yes, that works. Don't forget to take the jumpers off the speaker binding posts.
I found out that speaker cables do make a difference I had audio quest x2 cables then I bought elacs sensible speaker cables wow what a difference in sound the elac cable brought out a clear sound highs and lows of my debuts b6 2.0
LMAO
@@fwabble ?
How about bi-amping where you use an active crossover before the amps, and and have the amps directly feed the drivers - as in no speaker-side crossovers?
You are not supposed to use different cables when your biwire. They need to be identical. When you use different cables, that's just a band aid fix you need to do because you didn't match your components properly. In my system, biwiring makes a huge difference. The equivalent to upgrading an active component. But you have to try it first. Depending on your equipment, it doesn't always make that kind of difference.
haha, yea, it's called placebo. It makes no difference whatsoever.
I have 2 klipsch rp8000f ii front left and right tower speakers with an onkyo tx-nr6100 7.2 channel receiver. Today i decided to bi amp the speakers. Everything improved the highs mids and definitely the bass, but there is one problem... some sounds have moved to opposite direction i can notice this in certain songs ive always listened to and especially in games. When i test the left and right channels on the setup i can hear both at the same time instead of hearing just one speaker when switching between left and right. I can also tell it sounds more to the left when it should be only the right speaker making noise and vice versa. Is this a normal thing when bi amping?? Or is something wrong? I double checked all the connections and they are done correctly. I kind of regret bi amping them now because its a pain in the butt to get behind the system and put the jumpers back on... games are useless to me now since the sound is on opposite directions.
Keep those shitty jumpers out and connect those terminals with thick cable.
THAT will make a difference.
I believe it's more about active vs passive crossovers. If you bi wire you can generate multiple distinct amps for the different frequency ranges instead of taking the full spectrum to the speaker and having to then filter it back down to each driver.
I've always noticed a difference in sound quality depending on the gauge of the speaker wire. The thicker the cable the more bass and heft to the sound. I think if you go 8 to 12 gauge in your setup then why the need to bi wire? IMO, the gear you use makes the biggest difference in sound followed by vibration isolation. Thirdly, is the cabling throughout your system.
The biggest difference would be the room.
I keep trying to explain this to people, but someone started a rumor on the audio forums, and well, you know how that goes. LOL
Makes sense now. Hmmm.
Ask Richard Vandersteen what he thinks of bi-wiring. His model 2 and 3 series require it for good reasons.
From the Vandersteen Model 7 manual: The Model Sevens are optimized for true bi-wiring
using two separate speaker cables to connect each
speaker to the amplifier. The speaker’s internal crossover
presents different electrical characteristics to each cable
so that one cable carries the signal going to the woofers
while the other cable carries the signal going to the midrange and tweeter. The improvements offered by biwiring versus a conventional single run of cable are
substantial. Often, a bi-wire set of moderately priced cables
will sound better than a single run of far more expensive
cables.
Our research revealed that much of bi-wiring’s benefit
comes from the physical separation of the low frequency
cable from the midrange/tweeter cable. Internal bi-wire
cables that combine all the wires together in one sheath do
not offer all the advantages of true bi-wiring
Exactly.
Yeah everybody says on the double binding post on the back of the tower speakers you have double binding post. Here's my question on it if you went the other way and went by amping like maybe if you had dual or triple 10 inch or 12 inch woofers in the cabinets which is rare speakers nowadays would that increase the wattage and frequency put the high note to the lower power amp in the low note of the base to the higher speaker base capability if I'm saying this right thank you ask Paul thank you.
no
Paul you mentioned bi amping at the end of the video. Steve Guttenberg said in a recent video of his it makes a big difference. I'm just wondering who's ears art up for the task.
Bi-amping is mostly to get more power to the speakers.
@@mcplutt I'm aware of that.
Bi Amping can offer benefits simply by avoiding the speaker level crossovet and using more precise line level active filters.
That explanation IMO is quite a bit simplistic. Looking at the electrical network, bi-wiring offers better isolation of low and high frequency branches, as any voltage induced in a bass coil by returning to centre position is shortened at the amp’s low output resistance rather than directly finding its way to high frequency section of the crossover (where admittedly only frequencies in crossover region pass through). Further the hi-frq branch of the LS cables doesn’t see low freq current and in turn magnetic field interaction and looking at more expensive cables and their structure, this seems to be a major topic.
The argument against biwiring is of course cost, but adding a second pair as a system upgrade at a later stage, is worth a trial, ideally against an LS cable twice the price. High quality plugs and connection to cable provided, I see a good chance for the bi-wire to get more out of the system.
PS: q-acoustics have done measurements on the topic and could prove the superior SQ brought by biwiring. You’ll find that on their website.
Bi-wire = no. Bi-amp = yes
Most of that "lamp cord" back in the day was 12 or 14ga solid copper so it was not all that bad.
My system is on a biwired mode pure Cooper cable from Audio quest and sounds amazing as long as cables are not more than 8 feet Long per speakers
8? Not 7? Not 9? Curious. Ok, 7 is acceptable 😉
@@salvadorrodenas3071 don't go beyond 10 ft and your good
@@OscarSanchez-tk3hx 3 meters max. Approx. Right?
@@salvadorrodenas3071 unless necessary The shorter the better for better soundstage for me 8 ft is good I'm listening to Sting cd on my klipsch horn speakers right now take care brother
@@OscarSanchez-tk3hx me too! My listening room is also my bedroom!
Many nights I caught sleep while my stereo is playing ha ha ha. Take care of you too😃
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room Can any of you audiophiles help me?
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
Yes, you can group multiple co-ganged receptacles together on a circuit, just depends on application.
Thing is, you never know what the future holds... it always pays to approach this in a manner that makes future changes easier.
10awg vs. 12awg depends on the load amperage and length back to the panel.
In my opinion, I'd utilize 10awg, that way voltage drop is of no concern, regardless of load (high power amplification etc).
I'd take all hots, neutrals, and grounds all the way home dedicated style, to facilitate a star grounding scenario.
Also, this allows potential, future unforseen load changes to be handled with ease.
It's so much easier to implement these approaches now, while the walls are open... rather than down the road.
@@FOH3663 what do you mean "id take all thr hots neutrals and grounds home Dedicated style" can you expound on that?
@@levijessegonzalez3629
All three wires, all the way to the panel
@@FOH3663 Isn't that the only way to do it? As opposed to what you mean?
@@levijessegonzalez3629
As opposed to being broken, and joints made, sharing the home run path with other circuit's neutrals and grounds.
Every audio enthusiast should be smart enough to know that bi-wiring is a completely ridiculous concept if the gauge and makeup of the wire and the connection points are sufficient for the wire lengths and power levels and frequencies involved. Anyone noticing a “significant” improvement either had a setup problem before bi-wiring, such as insufficient wire gauge for one, or has fell victim to psychoacoustic justification. it’s time people wake up and smell reality .. even if you could theoretically say that there was a difference, if it’s going to be humanly imperceptible, it makes no sense to care. Think about it! OR better yet, just enjoy the music !!
Loudspeaker cable impedance - still a seldom explored subject two decades into the 21st Century? 🤔
Mostly because it's really pretty flat over the frequency range we use it in- there really isn't all that much to explore.
the nature of grouped exploration IS division. So, it is no surprise, especially when the rest of the complex equation is written down and looked at.
What is the peak current your amplifier can send through the cables to the speakers? My power amp peaks at 60A per channel. That's electric welding territory. What cables do you need to NOT get in the way of transducing that? Bi-wiring is a way to get more cable diameter to facilitate more Ampères. Bi-wiring is also a way to bi-amp. When a driver in a speaker is moving, it is an electric motor, but it also is a generator and this needs to be damped. Bi-amping (assuming identical amps) doubles the damping and isolates/focuses the damping to driver sections in the speaker cabinet. And bi-amping can be done vertically or horizontally, which, still talking theory from the armchair, will give different results depending on the music and where in the amplifier the power reserve is: centrally for both channels, or distributed throughout the design (the former cheaper, the latter faster - the former likely better in vertical bi-amping). In short: bi-posting is not necessarily done to bi-wire but to bi-amp instead.
Thanks for this explanation! Once you laid out the history it made total sense.