Nissan Left Customer STRANDED!! (Titan Crank No-Start)
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- This 2005 Nissan Titan left the customer stranded at 180k miles. No DTCs stored!
He already swapped some sensors, relays, and fuses with no luck.
Let's diagnose this truck and see if we can get it back on the road without going to the dealer or even an auto parts store :)
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Ivan
Chrysler has the same issue with their TIPM, and it's the same fix. Find the wires, cut em out of the TIPM, wire in an external relay. I also think Eric of south main auto has pulled the TIPM apart and soldered a new relay onto the actual board and fixed it, but that requires a lot more work than just wiring in an external relay.
Worked on a Dodge avenger. Customer took it to a dealer. They told need a new TIPM is required and will need programming.
She was told. Buy a used one. So she did. Took to a shop. They installed it. Car still stalling. Shop said new TIPM needed from dealer.
She dropped car under my shade tree with old TIPM. Reinstalled original TIPM. CAR still stalls??
Got wiring diagram. Followed it. Found wiring loom connector at front of car clip connector damaged and Connector would not stay together. Cleaned connection. Used tie wraps to hold connectors together. Car started and stayed running. I called Dodge dealer and asked the charge to program a TIPM?. 120.00 per HR.
And asked why do you charge to program a FUSE BOX? 😄
Customer is happy.
She later sold the car and bought a Jeep. She lives off road and lots of dirt and mud driving. Rough roads.
@@2nickles647 Pretty sure that jeep has a TIPM too. Got to be one of FCA's worst idea's ever.
@@ScottDLR I think all new Chryslers products have a TIPM. Some of them got recalled for the fuel pump relay prematurely failing and the dealer fix was to wire the external relay but it can happen to them all. As to why some models got the recall and others didn't? Couldn't tell you.
@@2nickles647 Niceeeee job!!! Disgusting how dealers take advantage of unsuspecting customers.
95% of techs would have insisted in replacing that expensive module. This is fantastic work!
When you hear your engine start after a malfunction - "oh my baby"
I can relate to that.
Great job Ivan, as always
Thanks for helping us learn. I am 83 and do just about all repairs on my car and other family
members. I enjoy working on cars. Never too old to learn. Life is like that. THANKS for all you do.
That was a great work around and saved the customer a lot of money. Another happy ending.
I love this kind of thing for older vehicles that you’re just trying to make last longer with as little expense as you can.
I love it when you can fix a vehicle without having to replace a part. Genius!
Great job Ivan. When PHAD shows up for a diagnosis it's always what's best for the customer and the least expensive way when possible.👍👍
Love it. Especially leaving information for the next person. I’ve done stuff like this for years. I have a starter switch hidden under the dashboard of my 79 Datsun truck. I didn’t think of theft prevention I’m just cheap.
I love the "no parts required" mantra. I've always been this way myself as well, but you take it to the next level with these work-a-rounds. I'll be adopting these hacks for sure. lol
A genuine diagnosis, by an expert technician, and a cost effective fix, result? A very happy customer! This is the way things should be!!! Thanks for sharing 🥰
Crazy that a relay isn’t removable......
Nice add on and yes maybe only the external is best maybe
In my arrogant opinion, only relays that are non-critical to vehicle operations, if even those, should be the hidden/non-servicable.
I like it, i like it, i like it🤣 I guess he liked it🤣
It's good you RELAYed that information to us.
Wow! Excellent Ivan! You save that owner a lot of money! Good to see a truck with 180K on the odo and still running good!
The IPDM is one of a number of fail points on the Titan Armada platforms. Typically it burns out resulting in a no start no run due to the ECM circuit being burnt. Then you have to replace it or keep swapping the relay over and over until it blows the IPDM fully.
Thankfully Nissan actually updated the IPDM and this one doesn’t burn out.
After working for a major automobile company for almost 30 years, what happens is that the engineer(s) who designed the IPDM is just that, an engineer. Often, these engineers have no automotive experience on the technical/repair side and although they test relays for durability, they cannot duplicate real world driving conditions. So, they run a relay through thousands of tests and if they don't fail, then they say it will never need to be replaced and incorporate it into the fuse box. They aren't concerned with serviceability because in their mind, the part will never fail or the failure rate is very low. I worked with an engineer once that didn't know where the power steering pump that he designed actually fit on the car. I was shocked. I did learn though that often there are very good reasons for how they design things so while it may look stupid to us in the repair field, it makes sense in the manufacturing and safety side of things.
Like putting a battery behind the front bumper ... by the tire splash shield liner. The design engineer forgot about the battery and found a nice spot there I guess.
@@scientist100 Chrysler likes to put the PCM there as well 😂
Chrysler does all of the opposite. First question, "how can we make this as hard as hell to fix? Alright! Let's do it!!!"
Nice work! I was concerned about the parallel connection to the new relay which would have doubled the normal current to the ECM control circuit. But of course, you had already thought of that! Great video!
The ignition power source feed to the relay is wired and protected by fuse .
@@nellyxavier8923 Yes, but I was concerned about the current on the output of the ECM needed to energize two relay coils in parallel, basically doubling the current on that output. Even though it’s a fraction of the current that is sent to the fuel pump, the output of the ECM is limited to much less than 15A. There was a possibility of burning up the ECM.
You saved this guy Ivan, the dealer would of greased him up real good.😂
Any relay controlling an inductive load will fail much sooner than the same relay controlling a resistive load. The inductive kick back when the motor is turned off is hard on the contacts. Some relays (for DC loads) may have a snubber diode across the contacts to shunt the back EMF when the motor is turned off but most don't. Add to this that most manufactures won't glue a heavy parts like a relay to the PCB so you have a problem with the solder joints cracking from vibration.
Then to hide the relay in a 'module' just adds insult to injury. And what a silly place to put the under hood fusebox Nissan!
Nice work around. Great job ! Just did similar repair with a plow control interface module for an inoperative plow head light. $300 for a new module or a little study of the wiring resulted in a simple jumper install to correct. Yes I'm a cheap guy, was my personal truck.
Great fix Ivan. I have found those ISO relays on Amazon with the fuse built into the relay. Makes for a tighter setup. Your patience with these engineering disasters is very enviable my friend. I have some cars in Kentucky if you run short of video material ‼️
Aftermarket garbage such as car alarms/engine immobilisers can cause a headache when diagnosing a vehicle which conks out on a person because they're obviously not shown in the vehicles wiring diagram.
I had to fix that problem up for my great uncles stepdaughter about 3 months ago & so far there's been no bad news !
Educational video. No dumb music. Good stuff!
That was an absolutely awesome explanation on that. I have someone that was gonna buy a whole other board just to have it running. Your wording and guidance just saved me and them a huge headache. I commend you, sir.
Nice job Ivan!! Almost no parts required! Great fix! Thus saving the client money!! Im sure he'll go back to you on other issues or more fixes!! You got another client on your book! Love it!! Great video! Many thumbs-up!!
Great repair Ivan ,customer is one happy man .👍
We need a lot more people like you who understand all this electronic stuff....
Wooohoo got up early and a PHAD video. Going to be a good day
I love these real world GSD (get "stuff" done) fixes! Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
one of your best videos .
I am having an issue with a 2009 pathfinder 5.6 4x4. Okay a loose ground bolt on right side of engine caused a smaller 16 gauge wire on left side of engine to carry all the current when trying to start the vehicle causing it to melt on driver's side inner fender.
This wire runs under air box all the way into the main harness runs down the left side of engine behind the intake manifold back to the ipcm & ecm. So I opened the harness pulled the melted wires apart the ones that were showing bare wires and no broken strands I used liquid electrical tape to cover wires and the very bad ground that was melted completely I cut out and soldered a new wire same gauge back to the original grounding point.
Checked each wire for proper continuity all the way back to the ecm ( battery disconnect and pulled out of vehicle ) all tested fine. No breaks or other wires touching together anywhere else. Put it all back together and found cop #1,2 & 5 were not sparking. Moved cop around and the coils were working on other cylinders but those 3 1,2,& 5 still had no spark with good known cop. Pulled harness again and found more comprised wires that were melted together deeper into harness fixed them put it all back together and now #1& 5 no spark #2 is working again.
I put new cop on the vehicle so ruled out bad coils just to be safe. Checked for codes still getting random misfire no other codes.
I guess time to get out the oscilloscope grab my laptop and add this vehicle to my alldata diy to figure this out. I feel like it's the ecm but want to check wave pattern and signal quality to make sure it's the ecm. I hate throwing parts when it's not the part that failed
Great diagnostic and better solution!
These integrated power modules are a pita and manufacturers are stepping into even more integration, which is bad news for customers. Luckily, there is Ivan to the rescue :-)
Bonus points for bonus footage. That's great labeling Ivan, I wish everyone did that. Very important to show the good example.
Most excellent work Ivan. Fixing it the way it should have left the factory. FYI, I love relays too, like for example, headlight switches that melt after a time, relay removes the current from the switch that caused the failure.
Ivan is a master mechanic and can fix everything. Amazing he can fix any car problems.
Brilliant...sure wish I lived closer to you!
Thank you so much!!! My son's 03 armada is having the same problem. We swapped the camshaft sensor and realized the fuel pump wasn't kicking on. Then after much searching and frustration we found out the relay was built in. We ordered another module but I am gonna rig up a relay just in case. Thank mucho!!!
I love it when the evil engineering of the dastardly designers is circumvented by a thinking technician with a simple solution! Either they don't care about the customer or are intentionally ripping him off.
Never ascribe malice when it can be explained by stupidity....
I subscribe to that :-)
Which gray wire there is one gray wire with white on the side located top row same row as the black and yellow and blue and white
and then there is another thinner all grey wire second row
plz explain
Many thanks for labeling the new circuit, had an old Chevy years ago that someone bypassed the fuse box and shoved the replacements out of sight, naturally the left the fuses in the box....
very nice find. i had a town and country
( i believe) that has a defected internal fuel pump relay and i remembered the jeep grandcherokee fuel pump relay recall where you do exactly what you did! wired it up and never seen it since!
Move closer to me, we need someone like you here. Hard to find good honest mechanics anymore
Absolutely brilliant analysis Ivan. Bravo work!
Great to see the customers reaction "oh my baby" Good job buddy
Yes, 2005-2007 had fuel pump lemons and relay problems strait from the factory. Nissan changed design and manufacturing. But, once relay (IPM) goes……well….your fix is the best answer. Nice Job! Ok👍
Hello Ivan Although it takes a lot more equipment and electrical skills now it is still nice to see that at least some back yard Mechanical repairs are possible. Keep up the good work.
The headlights on my buddy's Buick went out and the dealer wanted $1200. for a new body control module. I told him to buy a relay, toggle switch and some wire and hook it up old school. Saved a lot of money 💰 😌
Honestly you have been the best mechanic that thrived on diagnostics, I get that man thank you so much❤
The diode across the coil is there to suppress a back voltage spike caused by removing power from the coil. Depending on the mechanical sensitivity of the relay that might cause a bounce and a momentary contact closure but the main purpose is to prevent the spike from causing noise on the constant supply line. If you reverse the polarity of the supply to the coil, you might cook the diode and blow the fuse but the relay would be fine.
I had nearly the same issue on my Nissan 350Z. It cost $2500 for the stealership to replace the IPDM. I could have bought the IPDM for $800 and done the work myself. I don't think it needed replacing. I think it needed a better diagnosis from someone like you! Needless to say, that was my last visit to the stealership. I sure wish we had someone of your caliber around my area, Ivan!
Seems like “punishing” the customer to me. Strange how Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus as examples do NOT have these kinds of electrical issues…as in almost never. In my mind, either the external relay should’ve been provided OR the electrical parts need to be built way better, especially if integrating everything together into one expensive unit. Stupid shame for a vehicle to be “totaled” much too soon than it would’ve been if it had more durable or sensibly designed (yes, compared to other brands that have proven it’s doable).
I really like how you do a *_clean, thorough_* job--no hurry and run. Maybe think about going to electrical Engineering School. I bet you could build all kinds of run-around fixes. Ivan, you make people very happy--if there is a heaven...you will be there one day because of the way you have kindly treated your fellow man
Ivan, you are a master at your craft bro. And you use your gifts for the betterment of others.
Thanks! Same to my nissan Titan 2007 6 months seating and everything I do changed but still not run you are so great after I watch your video I did finally is running
Are the parts shortages enough to make repair shops reevaluate the way they repair vehicles yet? This was a quality fix without just replacing a OEM part. There may be a lot more of the out of the box thinking going on as supplies shortages get worse.
I have been having this issue with my 2013 titan for about a year now. Intermittent not starting. The first mechanic charged me $1200 to not fix the issue. The current mechanic was waiting to see the issue . I am going to show him this video and if it resolves the issue you will be my Savior. I was about to sell my truck!
Did this work? Dealer hasn’t been able to help me. Gonna try this I think.
the nissan 720 was the best truck i owned 320,000 problem free miles never rebuilt and never had problems with the transmission........best truck ever made
It’s not a Nissan, it is a Renault. The fuse panel in the back for some of the fuses has to be unlatched and raised to get to some of the fuses. Yikes.
Excellent work
I like the waterproof relays for outdoor applications, but this will do fine where it is located. Great work as always.
Dude you are the man! I bought and 08 titan that if you let sit for and hour it cranks and cranks then finally starts. I was getting a code for po850 which is a neutral safety switch circuit low. I thought that was the problem this whole time but I’m pretty sure what you described in this video makes way more sense. The only thing my po850 code causes is it for it to start in reverse and drive and my back up lights don’t work. But this has definitely shed a light on what it probably is causing the crank no start it varies with tempature
Wow !! No idea what n how you did diagnosis. The(old school) fix is miraculous !! 👍👍👍👍
Ivan, you know how to think outside the Box! Very good attention to detail with the label.
Outside the Fuse box? 😅
Best part of the video. Document your work. I did low-voltage for years and years. I hated those service calls when you would open up the cabinet or anything and see a bunch of wires not knowing anything it would take a hour at least to figure out what was what too many cooks in the kitchen when they have subcontractors doing all the work. Great video. Seriously it’s the best I’ve ever seen no joke. What diagnostic equipment are you using? What is the refresh rate?
Great Job saving the customer money.
That was very cool Ivan. Great idea and solution. Bill was pumped!!!
Absolute genius (well at least to me). Ivan recently sorted my old Celica, now runs so much better and highway mpg up to 30, previously 26.
That's awesome, Robb! Did the Check Engine light come on with the disabled EGR valve?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yep as expected. It probably came on before I even made it to the end of your half mile long driveway, lol. But as you say no emissions testing in Bedford county so it can stay on!
12:00 Now that's one happy customer👍!
Awesome fix! We need more Ivans in the world! I've got an 05 Titan. At least this one has good paint. Mine is baked off the top and the hood. The paints don't hold up well here in the hot south. No rust though so I guess it's a trade off.
Great almost NPR repair cost and time effective and a very happy customer . I am always abit worried by the back EMF of some of these general types of relay coils being much higher than than the original factory relay coils , usually those general kind of block relays have a free-wheeling diode installed across the coil to limit back EMF voltage spikes being produced by deenergising relay coil . I always check those general relays have a internal diode installed across the coil then make sure the polarity of the coil supply has the diode reverse biased when energised so it works correctly.
I just checked the video and the block relay you used did have a free wheeling diode installed on the connection diagram on the relay base so it's back EMF protected.
Visited State College, PA a few years ago on business with the local International Truck dealer there. Beautiful region of PA, though the community appeared somewhat depressed economically.
Unbelievable diag and fix. Well done Ivan!
Thanks for this video. It has saved me alot of time on a truck I'm working on with the exact same problem.
Great job Ivan. I love it.
Ivan, Impressive repair. You got through the confusion of the customers attempted repairs. Just curious how much total time was involved? Great Job as always.
About 2 hours.
2 hours not bad at all with recording it too. Impressive.
A nice repair of Titan ic proportions! 😁👍🇨🇦
Wow, what a fix. Think I'm gonna have to watch this one again. Thanks for Sharing!
As always back to basics why if failed can't say it enough !! Thank s Ivan
Another thing to do if it has issues with starting, replace the key. The chip inside gets damaged if you drop it too often. If the plastic key breaks, that's a sure sign of damage.
A locksmith through AAAnshould charge $120 for one key or $180 for two.
If you've tried the fusible links, the ground wire, and the filter/pump and it still isn't starting GET A NEW KEY
I wish we had Ivan in our area. Great work Ivan.
Some times a common sense repair fixes the vehicle! When I got my 06 Frontier new, there was a recall for the IPDM regarding no start problems. Mine passed the test, so far so good up to this point.
Hey Ivan. Your videos have gotten very good.
Thanks for sharing.
This is Why I buy Honda's, Honda uses actual removable relays for the fuel pump, Last time I checked 🧐. By the way Great repair like always 👍.
I'm sure Bill is happy... how far do you travel.... we could use a mechanic in Dubois that repairs the problem instead of throwing parts at it!!
Good on brother,I love watching and learning cheers.
Great troubleshooting and fix Ivan 👍
Nice work , well done
Well done Ivan-I think even Eric O would approve !! Or maybe not (He gets quite grumpy about "Efter murket garrbage" !!
LOL
I’ve been there and done the exact same fix on an ‘06 Lucerne which also has some of the relays integrated into the fuse box
I'm just posting as another thing for people the check off their list. I recently had this issue and seem to have resolved it. It was ultimately my fault. About 1.5 years ago I bought a battery for my 08 LE w/Tow Package. Everything was fine for 1.5 years and then got this crank no start. Parts store said battery was good (and it seemed good), replaced the relay, fuel pump tested good and all the easy stuff was checked off. However, the mechanic said their diagnostic machine sent an alert when starting that the cold cranking amps (CCA) were low. Got to looking - the parts store web site showed I should use a group 24 battery - which the ones they sell are 650 CCA. Titan forums showed a group 27 battery. The parts store gave me warranty credits - so got a group 27 battery at 710CCA cheap. Truck cranks stronger and so far so good (only been a few days). My truck started this around 125K and would never go more than 3-4 times until it started. I suspect and am hoping the battery weakened and the CCA were just too borderline to easily start the truck. Although, there was no rhyme or reason on when it would crank not start. Would do it after running/being warm or when cold. Sometimes it would go days without doing so, sometimes one time after another it would do it.
IDPM? It would have been more accurate to call it "SUFB" Stupid Unserviceable fuse Box".
I like how u labeled that. 🏷
I have a 2014 Ram 3500 6.7L diesel with only 10.4 volts from PCM to MAF. I checked it at PCM (10.4 V) and its supposed to be battery voltage. Have you ever seen anything like this? great videos. keep them coming. thanks for great video information.
Great diagnostic and work around.
Great fix and great bonus footage :)
would be nice if you could supply a wiring diag for us to either screenshot or download to put in our files when needed thanks
This piece goes out more often on hot days.
For stand-alone under hood you could use a sealed relay and wire connector (See Delphi (Aptiv) at Waytek). There are two general types of pins, low current control and high current load. Each wire has its own seal. The relay has a metal mounting tab, and because you do not need to encase the relay in electrical tape to keep water out, the relay will run cooler. It would be best to mount a metal tab relay to the left of the fuse box along the inside sheet metal. I use a steel galvanized (or you could use a SS) Rivnut with 1/4-20 SS hardware to hold the relay in place.
You might be able to fix the fuse block if you had access to an electronic troubleshooting bench, hard to do in the field. I think the problem is a high resistance contact due to a cracked PCB pin solder joint.
I will betcha the contacts on that internal relay are scorched, and just the wiping action of cycling a few times cleaned them. Until they corrode up again.
Adding the helper is absolutely the solution, barring replacing the unit.
N
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Your experience is showing!
If you replace the IPDM model it does not have to be programmed I replace mine with the updated version because I was having random no crank and stalling issues. I called the dealer and got the correct part number for the updated module on my truck Then searched online and found a dealer selling it as new old stock $330.