"Coloured is a culture, not a race" | New book, Heritage Day, Coloured history in South Africa
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2023
- Tessa Dooms and Lynsey Chutel delve into their new book, "Coloured: How Classification Became Culture." They weave a tapestry of stories highlighting the unique experiences of coloured people in South Africa, probing the question: Is "Coloured" a cultural identity or just a racial label? With new political movements on the horizon, some are capitalising on coloured nationalism. Join us to understand the book's roots and its role in shedding light on these complex narratives.
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Credits:
Producer: Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh
DOP and Editor: Tumelo Makau
2nd camera operator and assistant editor: Lesego Rakobane
Sound Tumelo Makau
About me: Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh is an author, scholar and founder of the Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh Xperience (SMWX), a digital, youth-centred current affairs platform. He holds a DPhil in International Relations from the University of Oxford and is a Lecturer in International Relations at Wits.
Proudly Cape Coloured. Buying the books for my 4 boys. They need to be proud of our heritage and culture.
A very long overdue conversation. Quite insightful, pleasant, and educational. A much needed piece of the South African puzzle 🙏🏿💖🙏🏿🌎🌈
Thank you for this conversation and the representation it offers. Particularly highlighting the nuances in the coloured community - I really loved this discussion.
At my former residence at the University of the Free an initiative since 2018 was started by a series of annual talks focusing on the identity of colored people.
I am Xhosa and originally from Eastern Cape. I am excited about this book and I view it as a book for all South Africans. Also loved the debate between Lynsey and Lionel on SABC News; it provided me with a profound understand into my fellow coloured brothers and sisters identity / culture; love it; definitely getting a copy.
"I am politically Black but culturally Coloured" this has helped me reconcile my bias towards the Coloured identity. As a Black man I need to constantly check that I don't deal with erasure to your lived experience.
Black or African is not a political identity it's a natural identity something that nature created
Patric Mellet's book, The Lie of 1652, answers some of the questions raised in this episode and comments section. I highly recommend reading it.
An insightful conversation. Will be on the lookout for the book. Dankie
Loved this conversation!
Excellent conversation and conceptualisation of Colouredness as an ethnicity, and not a race.
I live in Cape Town. My question to Coloured people 'how do you answer to being called coloured when coloured was invented by the Apartheid regime?
What do you want to call them? and why do you care
The Apartheid government group us together we are still the same group of people. I fully identify as coloured I'm not black or white or asian I'm coloured. It may have been given to me but I identify as that.
Why do you call yourself South African? The British group us together a couple of decades ago and still today you call yourself South African
Apartheid separated us into even smaller groups, cape colourd black colourd white colored ect ect. My Dad was called white colored in his pass my mom cape colourd. Dad got arrested ones for visiting his cape colourd girlfriend eg. my Mom. Just cause he looked white in that area at a set curfew that was in place. So now we identify as just colored in a different cultural spectrum as one.
@@StudyWithKaraboare you a coloured person?
@@faithnieuwenhuizen9776I’m sorry that your parents went through such an oppressive history.
Now this is a timely conversation i was longing for thank you Hlubi for bringing the coloured edition to us, the more i listen the more i appreciate the cultural diversity and uniqueness we have in mzansi 🤝🏾
Listening to both of is inspiring.....it has encouraged me to continue writing my story
Beautiful conversation ayeye 🔥🔥🔥
Love it , thank you .....I am in the process of reading the book and will be in conversation with my friend Wayne who made aware of it.....and shared a photo of his signed copy
Thoughtful ❤
Thank you, Sizwe, for providing a platform for these two prominent South Africans. I recently watched their interview with Stephen Grootes, and upon discovering this video, I felt compelled to share the comment I made during the interview with Grootes. I believe my comment holds significant relevance to this ongoing conversation.
To be clear, I hold a dissenting view regarding what I perceive as the undisclosed intentions of these authors. I think their views are extremely divisive. I found their references to Zulu and other 'tribal' "identities" lacking in rigor. It appears to me that they are defending a complex and nuanced anti-Black logic while attempting to cloak it with the mantle of Black Consciousness, which I believe has been misread and conveniently applied in their argument. Anyways, here are my comments below.
The celebration of diverse ethnic identities, such as Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana, and the category of "Coloured," must be recognized as fundamentally rooted in colonial constructs. Historically, there was no pre-existing "Nation" in the territories now referred to as Africa; these lands were inhabited by diverse communities. The concept of 'nations' is a modern construct linked with European capitalist expansion within and beyond Europe. Early European writings consistently classified those in African lands as non-white and, in many cases, non-human. Logically, Africa was perceived as Black as a whole, subject to a gaze often referred to as the White gaze, which compartmentalized its inhabitants. With slavery and colonialism, Africa was formally integrated into Europe's dominion, a condition that persists in various forms today.
To comprehend the ongoing influence of settler colonial power, it's essential to consider the regionalization of Blackness, particularly in the context of South Africa. To do this, we must briefly explore the historical roots of identity in South Africa. Identity, as we understand it today, finds its origins in the early era of settler colonialism by British, Dutch, German, and French immigrants, collectively known as Afrikaners. Essentially, there was no South Africa before the onset of settler colonialism; these lands were occupied by people predominantly seen through the White gaze as non-white or Black. These European groups competed for control over both people and lands, stratifying them based on identity, which led to the emergence of various labels and so-called "ethnic" identities.
In 1910, they officially established South Africa as a "nation-state," notably excluding Black participation. For instance, the early writings of one of the key founding figures of the South African identity, Jan Smuts, in letters to his colleagues before and after the 1910 union, revolved around one primary concern: the 'Native,' a euphemism for Black individuals. Subsequently, methods were devised to differentiate Black people based on the regions they inhabited. Opportunistic figures like Mr. Buthelezi later claimed demarcated regions like “Kwazulu-Natal” as “Zulu” homelands, relinquishing the broader claim to Blackness in favor of tribal identities. This maneuver helped maintain power while fragmenting the discourse of Blackness and the struggle for Place and belonging. Buthelezi achieved this, and to this day, there are Zulu-speaking South Africans who primarily identify as Zulus (rather than Zulu-speaking individuals), relegating their Blackness to a secondary status. Globally, these individuals predominantly identify as Black first. The label "Coloured" is applied in South Africa to manage the anxieties of white South Africans concerning potential loss in the claims of South Africa and identity.
It is disheartening to witness colleagues vigorously upholding a troubling concept of identity. For example, they say; Trevor Noah is often referred to as "Coloured" due to his mixed racial heritage. But they deny Trevor of the identity coloured; which they conceive to be cultural e.g. Zulu 'culture' but it is also an "ethnic" identity? If so, surely Trevor is coloured. So, right there, it seems to me, we have an oversight that is consciously anything else but not Black. Bishop Alan Boesak, although considered Coloured, is, in fact, Black. If one of the authors has a German father, then she is coloured. Engaging in a culture labelled as "Coloured" may involve practicing certain cultural traditions, but it does not alter one's fundamental identity, which remains Black. Coloured is mix race. Black is Black. They come in different shapes and forms and yes; colours.
Therefore, the kind of "coloured" identity that the authors defend does not disrupt apartheid compartmentalisations (as one of the authors claims), it enhances it. It highlights an invented meaning of "Coloured" in South Africa, which can lead to confusion. The separation of "coloured" people from Black identity as primary (instead of "political") and "their" unconscious separation from Black people is an invention by settler colonialism. Historicizing this concept and relying on writings that safeguard certain emotions and interests can result in the perpetuation of divided Black unity in the face of neo-colonialism.
The writers repeatedly draw comparisons between the Zulu identity and the need to defend the Coloured identity. However, this argument lacks the historical nuances that demand not just reading but critical, self-reflective reading, as noted earlier. The term "Coloured" has historically been used to differentiate Blackness, much like the label "Zulu." Nevertheless, it's imperative to acknowledge that there is no singular entity known as "Zulu"; instead, there are various Zulu-speaking communities. While categorizing Blackness can provide informative insights, it also perpetuates division, aligning with settler colonial logic. Therefore, it is crucial to reject the label "Coloured" and reaffirm Blackness. Some individuals may use "Coloured" to avoid the term "Khoi," which is sometimes seen as derogatory. Similarly, some "coloured" people who are, in fact, "Khoi" sometimes reject that label, highlighting the complexity of identity within South Africa.
The concept of being "politically Black" and referencing Steve Biko is often invoked but not always deeply understood. Sometimes, it is used to avoid the label "Black" as if it's an undesired identity. However, Steve Biko never called for the provincialization of Blackness in South Africa. In fact, Biko commented on the attitudes of certain "Coloured" and Indian comrades who were hesitant to fully embrace Black identity. A recommended read is Mabogo More's book "Biko: Philosophy, Identity, and Liberation," which delves into Biko's less-quoted writings about the debates surrounding Black identity among the oppressed.
One thing that becomes evident here is a resistance to embracing Blackness as an identity and a critical stance against the concept of being "politically Black." It's worth noting that any attempts to fragment Blackness in South Africa, the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places often follow a logic that divides the oppressed based on labels and labeling methods that overlook historical context. Consider, for instance, the group commonly referred to as "Khoi," who are now increasingly viewed as "First Nation." This discourse seems to replicate settler colonial histories from the Americas and Australia, where indigenous populations were subjected to genocide. It's essential to distinguish between "Indigenous" and "Race." Indigenous denotes a historical identity rooted in early establishment on a particular land, while Race represents a facet of European capitalism that has extended its global influence. Race categorizes some as fully human and others as less human, with the concept of humanity historically and presently defined by whiteness, marginalizing all others.
To address the initial question of why white South Africans do not seem preoccupied with creating separate identities, one must consider that, for the maintenance of the settler colonial context in Africa, this notion of "nobody's land" must persist. This land, which was subject to slavery and colonialism, needs to remain undefined. Self-identifying as "Coloured" isn't inherently problematic; however, advocating that this culture should be one's primary identity as "Coloured" before acknowledging one's Blackness suggests a reluctance to embrace one's true identity, which is Black. The authors' logic appears to echo the older concept of fetishizing Blackness, as opposed to recognizing the diverse cultural elements within the Black identity. It's crucial to place "Coloured" within the broader context of cultural richness. Some individuals may be culturally "Coloured" while still identifying as Black. This distinction, while seemingly similar to the authors' argument, underscores a shift away from provincializing Blackness within the South African context. Such provincialization caters to white anxieties and settler colonialism, ultimately hindering the progress of Black people.
Coloured is not ok, yet black is ok? Do you know that "black" is also a colonial construct?
Just bought the book for a December read. Looking forward the read.
Love it ❤
Very Interesting
Extremely insightful, two incredible minds. Brilliant conversation.
...
And a beautifully warm all engaging very accepting kind, caring, loving, gentle and oh so funny culture. Ive had and still have the privilege of very many beautiful friends, and family of this culture.
The coloured humour is my absolute side splitting BEST.
❤❤❤❤❤😂😂❤❤❤❤
wow!!! Brilliant conversation. More content like this please!!!
Ladies I'm sitting here trying to listen to you but I can't hear a word you are saying because I'm looking at you and I'm like these ladies are so beautiful😅
Here for it. 🤗🤗
Coloured people from Durban is another conversation
Please do tell
That voice on the right is excellent in person!!!!!❤😢😂 Meyerton awaits
The lady on the left looks a lot like myself and my whole family actually lol its like i'm watching myself. And we're Xhosa in Cpt
That's because you have mixed blood 😂 follow your family tree
@@Juliomickey101 not necessarily
I LOVE THESE TWO WOMEN. I wish they could debate the celebrity wannabe Samantha Jansen and put her in her place. She ridicules coloured people and throws our people under the bus to appease Pan Africanist afrocentric black supremacists and coloured hating black people. Some, if not most of us are mixed with blackness so blackness is very much a part of our family tree. That DOES NOT MEAN that we have to one drop rule ourselves out of existence and deny the fullness of our identity. I am COLOURED AND PROUD to be. Samantha Jansen wants to become a celebrity off of trashing our people. These 2 women give me hope for the future of COLOURED PEOPLE. Their VOICES NEED TO BE ELEVATED.
The book launch, this interview and the SAFM interview just brought so much excitement and joy to my day.
Thank you Tessa Dooms & Lynsey Chutel
SA is the land of the KHOI and SAN, the brown skinned people , today classified as coloured .
The black Nguni tribes from central Africa are busy claiming their land and country as their own .
U do know that S.A is a colonial construct right it's only colonial boarders that separate it from the rest of Africa and it's really funny how people say we are from every other part of Africa except Southern Africa
I'm Nama...born in Ncape.. Kakamas .. Khâi -garib
..
As a black teacher I really want to understand colored people...coz I tend to say african and speak about consciousness and I want to know where do they fall
It’s a buffer class “name” created by their oppressors, they need to abandon that backwards and toxic moniker and create their OWN unique name.
If they identify as “Khoi” but reject being called “African” then what are they?
Isn’t “Khoi” an African tribe?
I want to understand what is coloured culture..
Like its traditions and heritage passed down from generation to generation...
What is their cultural wear...
Are they african by ethnicity
Na its just a bullshit buffer class.
The term culture , shared codes of behaviour of groups of people. Culture is language , theater, literature , music, religion and food.
I can tell you about growing up in a coloured community. My mother toungue is English , my religion , Roman catholic , food eaten in my home was a mixture of Cape Malay cuisine , Indian, Dutch , British etc. One of my favourite authors, Adam Small, a Coloured author. Culture is a broad topic and politically another topic. Oops , shared humour 😀. I don't believe in wearing national dress , my personal preferance.
A debate format is needed. Some of what the ladies put forth needs serious interogation. Ayeye!
👀
Sizwe do you identify as color ed?
He is an African. Coloured is a culture
The likes of Sizwe and Trevor refer to themselves mixed but follow Xhosa tradition since one of their parents is Xhosa ND they both take pride in Xhosa culture
I find Lynsey Chutel attractive.
Bro macoloured amantle 😮😮😂😂😂
I really didn’t like this format. This is quite a big topic and as such, I think a interview, rather than an unstructured conversation would have worked a lot better.
If you want to find out the real history of cape town read the book The lie of 1652 The younger generation will defend the term coloured because they didn't fight for freedom they don't kny before the coloured tag there was Oorlams Afrikaners tag
ALL ethnic groups start off as cultural groups.Since we've been self propagating for a couple of hundred years , we're well on our way to becoming an ethnic group.Maybe we're there already.
This topic reminds me of Benni McCarthy and Pearl Thusi.
😂😂😂😂😂😂THESE PEOPLE R SCREWED I'M TELLING U, POPULATION OF FULL-BLOODED AFRICANS IS A BILLION, U STAND NO CHANCE, I ❤ IT!
They are very screwed indeed
They are 100% right about Coloured anger, especially with regards to the Nathaniel Julius story and the pain of Coloured identity. However other aspects of this strikes me as being a leftwing Gauteng based view of Coloured identity that is somewhat disconnected from working-class Coloured identity in places like the Western Cape. Its very condescending of Coloured voters in the Western Cape for example.
A they also peddle a view that gives black imperialism and racist black nationalism (that often excludes Coloured people) a free pass or, even worse, tries to justify it.
Are you a coloured person?
I agree , black pan African imperialism is very harmful to the coloured people . They conveniently now label us as black to suit their own selfish agenda .
Their black racism discriminates against the coloureds and leaves us worse off than under apartheid .
Can u tell me about this black imperialism
How can a people who don't own an economy be imperialists?
@@user-vx8vk9vq8e ownership is only one of many dimensions of power. Imperialism refers to an unequal structural distribution of power. Black Imperialism refers to the Africanist ideological domination of the levers of power centered in Gauteng and that seeks to impose its norms, rentseeking, world view, and exploitative and extractive practices based on a racial preference for one racial group only. All at the cost of minority groups and under the cynical guise of economic equality. A cause they do not sincerely believe in, as their instance on laws based on race discrimination instead of social-economic discrimination prove.
@@arkuis am really shocked cause this would mean these are black people who put their race over others which is something that would shock us as black people since we don't have rich black people that put black people before others yes they may put their friends or their white masters but we don't have rich black people that put black people first on the basis of their race
And when it comes to things like BEE u do know that black in this case is an umbrella term for Africans coloreds and Indians
@Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh
My problem is that “COLOURED” was the name that raicist South Afrikaners used for mixed South Africans, including mixed indigenous South Africans with non-indigenous people as “Coloureds”.
Let NON-indigenous South Africans call themselves “Coloureds” and mixed-INDIGENOUS South Africans create/choose a UNIQUE name for themselves. Not a name created by raiscists who created “Coloureds” as a “BUFFER CLASS” for confusion and division, divide & conquer tactics.
It’s very backwards and toxic thinking.
The mixed race indigenous people do have names for themselves , for example the KHOI clans are the NAMA , GRIQUA and KORANA . Many of these indigenous first nation people are reclaiming their rightful identity.
@@Scar_7.62
Then they need to reject this “Coloured” moniker and make sure the government does the same.
The "culturally Coloured, politically Black" argument is a cop out.
It was invented by the black pan African imperialists to rob the coloureds of their rightful portion in the new democracy .
Woke bs
Can you explain😮
@@user-pr2pt5vm1j Coloured people are mixed, we are not black and this is woke bs to undermine the coloured identity and erase the coloured identity by identifying as politically black bs, because we'll will never be black.
define woke
@@chante41 Using marxist theory as a lens to view race, gender, systems and history....e.g "feminist standpoint theory" which is just revisionist bs history....in the later 50s and early 60s when communism failed, alot of marxist intellectuals blamed culture for the failure of communism, so to change society they started using critical theory to undermine and removing societal norms (religion, family and sexuality) etc under the guise of "liberalism" and you got books like the authoritarian personality pushed.... Woke once meant to be aware of conscious and unconscious bias and how it effects us and others.
Have you read the book?
Long long long overdue!!!!! I’m in tears!’nn 😭😭😭😭 thank you SMWX 🤎