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Super Fast and Awesome Deep Hole Drilling - Making DOM Tubing - Spade Drilling in a Manual Lathe
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2022
- Sure, the HSS Twist Drills work good, but there is always a better way. I was told once by a tooling rep that you couldn't use spade drills in a manual lathe. Boy, was he wrong! These things are awesome in a manual lathe! Sure, they throw coolant everywhere. But, they also plow through the material like its nothing.
In this short episode, I use an AMEX Spade Drill to make DOM tubing for one of my repeat jobs. Since this size isn't available, this is the best logical approach. Drilling 12+" deep in less than 4 minutes! I'd call that Super Fast and Awesome!
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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A practice I have used that works well with spades, use a tapered holder on your crosslide Aloris holder, then you can use the feed to run your drill at a constant speed.
You can also make a connector to connect from the saddle to the tailstock and do the same.
I got a few of those blades at a surplus place that sold used tooling at like $5 a pound. Figured I could always grind them into custom cutters or something. Most of them were brand new with the coating still on them.
I don't think I've ever seen a 2 speed tail stock. That's a great feature.
That Lion lathe looks interesting. Josh made a good choice.
I have heard before that spade drills don’t like the “inconsistent feed” on a manual, consider that now debunked!!
Thanks for sharing this.
Never heard about the inconsistent feed issue before. What hurts spade drills is when they come out the other side and the coolant is gone before the hole is finished. Had to do quite a bit of peck drilling with spade drills at a previous employer and found out what works and what doesn't. Try drilling a 36 hole bolt circle 1-5/8" thru a 3" flange with anything else. Insert drills are great but they require a very solid material and setup. At least they are easy to re-sharpen. I have a friend that still swears by hand ground tool steel bits. We are a dying breed.
Gday Josh, I’ve seen these drills but not in use, they really do a good job, thanks for sharing, cheers
You can’t argue with that. Good job 👍😃😃
Good demonstration of the handiness of spade drills. I haven't use one before, but I'll be on the lookout for some now. That big spindle hole is a great thing to have in a lathe.
The thing that struck me is how accurate the hole was, you don't get accuracy like that with regular twist drills! Nice job Josh 👍👍
This was interesting, we have not tried a spade drill before. Thanks
we made a block that goes on the saddle and holds a 5MT so you can feed the drill and the coolant pipes follow
Allied Engineering is an Ohio Based company that I sold to when I was in inside sales for a company.
When they were getting ready to introduce their smallest diameter they had a problem with throwing the screws that hold the bit in the shank.
I got a call pone morning from the shop foreman and he told me he was headed to a meeting with purchasing to order $500K in special screws from a Swiss company. I told him to hold that order and I would have special taps to them in 2 days to try.
Problem solved with a $3.50 tap that saved them a million dollars per year. That total would be close to $35 Million by now.
I worked for a couple of years on a deep-hole drilling machine (didn't know that a lathe could do the same), we hardly used any lubricants, we "lubricated" with compressed air, which at the same time blew the chips out of the groove along the drill bit. We used much higher speeds because the tool was moving and not the workpiece. And we always start with a pilot hole with a conventional drill of the same diameter, so that the deephole drill doesn't go astray.
Like that headstock was built for that size material! I too like spade drills that carbide lasts!
Being a machinist has to be very gratifying
It has its moments.
I like your thru tool coolant setup. I've never seen anyone do that on a manual lathe before.
G’day Josh. Hope you’ve been well mate? Those long spade bits do an amazing job. Good to see the flood through coolant being used and getting right up in there. Cheers 🍻, Aaron
You can even get a collar to use the spade drill coolant for use on the boring mill, but it does make a mess. Love the creativity and always welcome new ideas.
@@randyhanson837 thanks for the follow up comment Randy. That’s very handy to know. Cheers 🍻 Aaron
We run our spade drills at about 500SFM and the larger ones I’ve found like to feed harder. I run a 56mm spade quite a lot in 1018 and it likes to feed at .014/rev
I worked on the radar antenna on the Juno Jupiter probe. That is one of the cooler things I ever got to work on. That and a ton of Globalhawk antennas.
But it wasn’t solely my work by any means.
Go Pack Go! Great video, sir!
Josh I know you're no fan of CNC but I use these in my CNC lathe at work and they work so efficiently in 316 and 304
She liked it at 500 rpm. Great tool.
Fun fact: "Balls to the wall" refers to the throttle levers in piston-engine aircraft. They have ball knobs so you can tell them apart by feel, and pushing them all the way forward - i.e. to the firewall - gave maximum power.
Great job mate 👍🇦🇺
In the US machines are called by name, Lion, Johnson, Monarch etc. Here in Australia we tend to be less emotional; The lathe, the saw etc. We also further break down machine tool descriptions based on origin. Ie. The chinese lathe.
Sort of like trepanning, but making chips instead of a core. I believe Iscar and Sandvik both have trepanning tools in that size range. Since you are using flood cooling it might make sense to check that out.
Good job on the video and the project.
Great! You make it all look so easy.
nice video Josh! you finally cleaned the lathe before filming. :P
If you want more fine control of your flood coolant you can buy a metering valve, they cost a bit more, but it gives you a lot of control over the flow.
Very interesting 👍😎👍
You must have got a good workout winding that tailstock in. Could be a good job for winter!
always good Josh.....Paul in Florida
Cool video Josh, keep'um coming..
Seen one years ago we use it alot 2 1/8 12 inch long at other shop I worked at they were up to date machine they never seen them
Saw and Drill, still the fastest metal shaping tools in the shop 👍.
Have you considered fitting a drilling attachment on the cross slide Josh? I first used one in the 1980s on a Dean, Smith and Grace here in the 🇬🇧, it had a dovetail clamping system, the you slide it up to a stop on the carriage, though there are other methods.
Great job, top class videoing.
Thanks for sharing.
I have an aloris Toolholder for that purpose. Just didn't want to take the time to indicate it in.
@@TopperMachineLLC I've used the tail stock to centre the tool post, using a centre, nice and quick.
Have you ever tried a u drill. They have multiple inserts to cut and inserts on the edges to guide the drill body. They are brilliant. Similar to ejector drills i guess but they are more for realy deep holes.
Very pleased to see this video. I was beginning to think that James Kilroy was the only other Machinist who prefers Spade drills. I'm convinced they are a much more economical choice for a job shop in particular, sharpening is so much faster and easier. In recent years, I've become very reliant on annular cutters to get my initial hole and then boring bars to finish. They are not cheap, but I find that recovering the slug is a lot more useful than one might think, lots of smaller jobs that can make good use of these. What is your own opinion on annular cutters? I see that you are using traditional twist rules along with the Spade bits, do you not see a particular wisdom in limiting a shop to one or the other? If this is the case, can you explain what circumstances make it valuable to have both options at your disposal?
500 = balls to the walls! Love it.
Good job sir
HI Josh Look out for a tool holder with a morse socket on it power feed from saddle.
Steve
I already have one, just didn't want to take the time to set it up.
'Get 'er done right the first time' is a great moto,
but mine is 'don't make the same mistake twice.'
No such thing as a setup piece in my world.
I guess not. I work with people, so there's no such thing as a perfect day for me. I wish I had Marry Poppins ruler, you know, the one that measures personality. I also wish that I could correct problems at work with machining operations. I believe they call that a 'character development haircut,' although I'm not a hair stylist, so I would probably just make another mistake.
Nice! 😊 You might wanna make a tool post style holder for power feed and just let'er buck! 😁
I’m impressed with the excellent performance of the long spade drills. A large part of the good results is the coolant flushing out the chips. It appears from your fast turning that the tailstock must be geared?
I watched one of those drills split apart like an exploding shotgun barrel on looney tunes. But that was in a nickel based alloy, and with the wrong insert. Other than that, I have always liked them.
A tin can with bottom cut out makes a good splash guard
Hi, try without pillot, and use the carriage of the lathe, with automatic push harder, Also the pilot just need the center of the center drill, not all, becouse the angle 60° is not the same of the tip of the drill 118°, try it.
Why not run power feed, either by putting the drill in the tool holder, or using a link that lets the carriage drag the tailstock? I love spade drills. and gun drills.
I do have the aloris morse taper holder, but didn want to take the time to set it up for only a few feet of hole. But, maybe next time I have to do these I will.
Surprised you don’t drive the drill in with carriage like I do with gun drills !
Impressive
The bit did not come out at the end, I wanted to see that exactly!
The Lion lathe looks like it is working well for you
I couldn't be happier with it. Only regret was waiting so long to buy it.
Nice work Josh. Watching you crank on the tailstock handle I was reminded of something I saw Tom Lipton do. He has a latch that allows him to couple his tailback to the saddle which allows him to bore using the lathe's automatic feed. Would something like that work well for this type of work?
Good
Hey Josh. Great video. Thanks for sharing. I am running a manual machine shop in Zimbabwe. I have been looking for info on spade drills and your video answered a few of my questions. What I also need to know is...I want to finish drill to 43 mm, what would I need to pilot drill to? Many Thanks again for your great channel! Regards Woody.
I have plowed through 1045 with a 1.25" spade drill and it comes out 1.250-1.251 consistently. As long as it's sharp and good quality, I have not had any issues. Just drill a starter hole or a center drill to get started, and plow it through
What coolent you using?
Why use a long, and expensive, drill if your parts are short? I did not see take a skim cut for consentrity. Cut the bar to length first and you only need a 2"long drill.
no shorter drill is needed, just lean your toolpost on the drill near the entry into the bar
would mind providing a link to this particular drill? I cant seem to find it on allied's website.
I ordered it from MSC. They have many different variants of it in stock.
Josh, Keith is touching base with you and this operation. What type of material are you working with. Like 1018, or something that's really tough stuff???
It's just 1018
Where did you get the lathe lamp? I could use a good light for both the lathe and my milling machine if you find your lamp to be a good one. Thanks.
Cane standard with the lathe.
Question, why not make a holder for your tool post so you can use power feed?
I have one, just didn't want to take the time to set it up.
Would it be possible to make a bracket that would “tow along” the tail stock using the carriage feed? I suppose the tailstock may not have good engagement on the ways when not locked…….
I agree with the previous comment on using a tapered holder, I have done this with a “super drill” (an adjustable spade dril) but it was a pain to dial in the cross slide holder in both axis…..
I have one. Just didn't want to take the time to set up.
You should make yourself an holder so you can use the mashine to feed the drill
I have one. Didn't want to take the time to set up. Besides, most of my veiwers done have that option.
@@TopperMachineLLC ok. Did you make it or by it?
no saw was needed, you can part on the lathe while plunging the drill.
I can part, but the saw kerf is 0.035" and the parting tool is 0.160". It's all about saving material sometimes.
@@TopperMachineLLC time is money, that doesn't look like titanium
Badger steel has that size tubing
No they don't. Stew couldn't find it
Hi what’s the maker of the spade drill with the coolant port thanks
They are all AMEC. Allied Machine.
Believe it or not, I have actually had better luck with these not using a center drill. Pause the feed after getting the split point buried until it stops vibrating, and then feed hard and it generally sorts itself out by the time the cutting edges are all the way in. It may not be any better, but it at least works as well and saves center drilling. I love these drills myself, we have them from 1" to 4.5" and use them daily
Thanks for the input. I was wondering if they would self center well. I'll give it a try. I have a large job coming in tomorrow that needs spade drilling.
@@TopperMachineLLC I can't say for sure on other types, but the Allied T-A series at least have behaved very well for us
isn't that basically a gun drill?
Couldn't you trepan those bores?
I suppose you could, but on 1.25" and having to do that many smaller pieces it's not worth it. Just get the job done and out the door. That's how you keep customers happy and pay bills.
@@TopperMachineLLC I was thinking of David Wilks videos of trepanning very long pieces to do the whole length needed. To do shorter sections, an annular cutter could do holes up to 6 inches deep. I guess you know how long it takes to do the multistep process.
Kinda looks like a gun drill
I'm pretty sure the phrase is balls to the wall. Balls to the walls implies separate walls, a much more painful and elaborate punishment.
Balls to the wall means max throttle. Pedal to the metal. Older planes and boats even had a lever with a plastic ball on the end and when you pushed it as far as it would go, you would want just a bit more and try to push it into the wall of your craft. Hence, balls to the wall.
@@randyhanson837 that's fascinating. I had been under the impression that it resulted from the governors on old steam engines or some hit and miss engines. Where they would cast a lead sphere onto a pair of strips of spring steel, angular momentum would draw them outward, functioning as a throttle of sorts. So the exact same interpreted meaning, but from a completely different era. But I was just making a joke
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Awesome video.. I got a upcoming similar job but on 304SS bar and I will have to drill 30.” Deep…. What material is the solid bar?? And what material is the insert??(cobalt with coating or carbide with coating)??