Shelf of Many Things - Lion & Dragon
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2021
- A series where I take a look at indie and small press tabletop role-playing games. Lion & Dragon is an authentic medieval OSR style roleplaying game.
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#roleplayinggames #rpg - Hry
Thank you very much for this excellent and detailed review!
Thanks for taking the time to watch it. I always try to be fair yet thorough when doing these, and it's rare that I see a product like this, where I don't end up going into a nitpick spiral on the editing and get to spend my time actually talking about the systems within it.
“I don’t care”. Brilliant and concise
L&D is a hidden gem
Thanks! I appreciate your more detailed reviews, hitting on the various aspects. Many others just mention a few basics and skip so much.
Thanks. I appreciate that. I know it takes me a while to put them out too, which I need to work on, I've got such a backlog that I could genuinely put one out every 2 weeks for a while and not run out. It's just a matter of actually getting them out.
@@rpgcrawler - Keep knocking 'em out, and I'll watch them! Reading rulebooks can be slow going when you want to understand the details. No pressure!
I’m going off on the author, about how much I love him!
I love this book! It personally achieved that "authentic medieval" feel for me without completely modifying the existing D&D system. It's a good alternative to HarnMaster in that case.
Thanks for the in-depth review!
Thanks for watching! And yeah, the number of systems designed to portray to an 'authentic' medieval world vs. a tolkienesque/generic fantasy one are few and far between. I like to think this one could be used to help a group which is used to D&D-based systems get used to ideas, and maybe then try other systems that fill a similar role. It's a good bridge.
Great review. Thanks.
Yes, it’s quite niche (my kind of niche, hence it’s already sitting in my bookshelf) but I think it would appeal to a lot of players as a “something different for a change” thing. That said, I don’t think you’d really get to appreciate its unique flavour from just running a one-shot (unlike say DCC).
One other point: it’s pretty cheap to buy, representing great value for money.
Oh yeah, it definitely cries out for longer term games. Exactly the sort of campaign I'd use it for. And yeah, the modest price is perfect for what it does. I can appreciate a well put together system that's also affordable.
“I don’t care”
Appropriate response
Its a really good book. I love what he did with classes it stops power gamers and makes charactets develop into their own uniqie ways.
Oh very much so. I've seen a similar limited class feature/upgrade mechanic in I think 2 other systems I've read (I'm sure it's in a few more too) and I enjoy it every time it pops up. Though I think this is one of the more limiting versions of it I've seen, since it puts everything including decent hit point gain on the limited/random upgrade schedule.
@@rpgcrawler I am just blown away it has not become standard in RPGs i really see no reason to not have it in most rpgs its just amazing!
Thank you for the review and flip through. It looks like a great value.
Thank you for making this video! This is exactly the type of RPG I have spent hundreds of hours attempting to homebrew! I wish I had learned of this before!
Glad it was helpful! If you enjoy historical osr style rpgs, the author also has several other systems and accessories that, while I haven't done a full review of, I can still with confidence point out as useful.
His podcast Inappropriate Characters with "Grim" Jim Desborough and Venger Satanis is pretty entertaining. I really enjoyed Lion and Dragon and I wish there were more historical RPGs that get the actual history part right like it does.
I've sadly not had time to watch it, although it's been on my 'to do' list for a while, I get the feeling I'd get a kick out of it. And yeah, I really wish there were more historical RPGs that focus on historical accuracy. I think I can count on one hand the number of decent ones out there.
Thanks for the review very cool game style I really like it 😀
Awesome book.
It definitely does what it aims to do extremely well.
If Harn master isn't your thing this would be a greet game for running Harn with.
Definitely one of the settings I could see doing well with this, for those of us who can't quite take the system behind it.
With WFRP1 and Basic Fantasy, this is one of my favourites.
Oh yeah, this and Basic Fantasy are definitely up there for me as well. I haven't played much WFRP, I keep meaning to try 1st edition on that.
Aside from Pundit coming off as a little christian-preachy in some of his videos... I find myself liking a lot of his content and am interested in getting a copy of this book.
LOL'd at the "I don't care". Best way to deal with the rampant cancel culture cry-bullies.
I don't get called out nearly as much as I used to when I still had a twitter presence, but there's still always that one dude that immediately goes to the comment section like 'how can you even countenance covering this person...' And I have got some pretty vile messages and emails in the past. I mostly blow them off.
@@rpgcrawler - Definitely some nasty people on the internet nowadays. Twatter is their Mecca. Was probably liberating, getting away from that den of zealotry.
110% they are a cancer that must be driven out.
@@NefariousKoel stunning comment, high praise and support
@@rpgcrawler Won't blowing them off make them come back for more, or does it mean something different over there than it does in Britain?
Time to get the leeches.
This compatible with Call of Cthulhu:. The Dark Ages?
From a fluff perspective, maybe. It uses a d20 OSR style thing, rather than the CoC system, so I'm not sure how much in the way of mechanics could be translated over. As far as the setting material goes, there's the Dark Albion setting from the same author that might be more helpful. I haven't actually had the opportunity to really review that one just yet though.
Niche appeal and great review coverage.
There is a lot to unpack here. Is this an OSR game with a point to make? Is this an historic focused RPG? Is this a game product pandering to a certain politically motivated fringe element within the hobby? Your comment, "I don't care" seems to amply address your position and clearly states your intent to review L&D as a game taken on its "game" merits alone. While I appreciate your position, I personally see L&D as one of those games that is heavily imbued with the voice of its author. Much like Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Hackmaster, or The Burning Wheel, the strong "voice" of the author may overshadow everything else (for some) and be the final determinant for whether one finds this game to their liking or not.
Excellent points as always. As far as the voice of the author being in it, I want to say I 'kind of' agree with your take there. I think I mostly differ on how strongly that voice/opinion is presented in the book. Pretty much everything produced by a human will have the voice of its author in it to some degree, simply because that is the nature of art, whether it be in game form or otherwise. Even in the driest of my videos one can probably get a sense for at least a bit of my own takes, for instance, even though I (mostly) take pains to weed them out (unless irritated, of course).
I certainly did see elements of the author's opinions in the game, and I'll agree that it will impact whether someone finds it to their liking. I didn't choose to focus on those elements because I already had so much to speak of, and had to judge things I include in a review on a few bases:
1) Do they impact the rules and presentation to an overt degree - Wherein I did notice such elements, they were mostly either tied to the optional Dark Albion setting itself (and thus had minimal impact) or were congruent with an historical medieval setting. This made them all setting based, and while that's present within the rules, as an OSR system and not a proper setting book, I basically made the call that they didn't impact the overall presentation enough to be noted. I feel like I would have come to a slightly different conclusion and noted them more if I were reviewing say, the Dark Albion book itself.
2) How well are such opinions blended in where they appear? While I certainly noticed they were present, I had go looking for them. This is a far cry from, for instance Cha'alt, where such things were front and center in more than a few cases, and that setting book used satire in order to provide commentary. As such, I felt it more important to mention them in my review of that product. Granted, in the case of Lion and Dragon, I feel like if one goes in knowing who RPGPundit is, they're more likely to be on the lookout. Thus, they may be a little bit on the more glaring side to those going in with that mindset.
I've read through LotFP and Hackmaster and a few others, and I personally don't believe L&D rises quite to that level, unless one is looking for things. My opinion in this regard is, of course, as fallible as any other. And as you can probably tell from this reply, if I'd gone into that in the review, I'd probably have added 5-10 minutes to the video itself talking about things that would not have changed the minds of people who are familiar with RPGPundit one way or another, and would not have mattered much at all to those who aren't.
@@rpgcrawler I see your points here and am in general agreement. Thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully respond. As usual, you have given me much to ponder!
Always appreciated!
As the author, I can tell you that there's nothing inherently political about this book. At least, it makes no statements about modern politics.
Of course, leftist Postmodernists might just hate it for presenting an apolitical look at Medieval history.
I dont care Nice comment
A man is known by the company he keeps. Thanks for the warning.
Well said.
soy comment